Composer Reacts to Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects - Sol Niger Within (REACTION & ANALYSIS)

[@mason_dale]

Fredrik would probly be psyched that you thought his guitar solos were keyboard

[@progperljungman8218]

Yup 😁

[@CriticalReactions]

That's insane how they sound so clean on the note changes.

[@AA-ou2ye]

He use modulation from a breath controller created by Thomas haakes brother called 33 breath Controller This how he can make his guitar sounds like a alien. It has midi to so he can use the guitar to play synth notes. Well this album is very psychedelic it is like you get into a lsd trip without doing drugs. But yeah it was a long time ago I heard the 1996 version cause 1999 version is better.

[@ambassadortourettes753]

Double yup

[@dcko1979]

@@AA-ou2ye He used to be really hard into Allan Holdsworth.

[@o-REDBEARD-o]

18:27 Tosin has explicitly stated this almbum in particular as a major influence. Good catch.

[@theTuggybear]

There's a medley of this album that thordendal and agren did on an educational drumming show on Swedish tv, it's fun and also wild.

[@progperljungman8218]

Mostly insane drums on consistent riff loops though. There's a live recording from Melloboat with Fredrik, Mats, Morgan, Gustav Hielm and Mattias IA Eklund - but the sound is unfortunately overloaded.... (Sounded great IRL though 😊)

[@lukesabin691]

@@progperljungman8218 you were there for that show on Melloboat?! You lucky bastard.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@lukesabin691 Yeah, I know 😊

[@grechka-chan]

Would be cool to see an album reaction to Meshuggah's Catch 33 at some point! It's their most experimental/unusual album, a bit similar to Sol Niger Within in certain aspects. Much more varied than their usual stuff.

[@progperljungman8218]

😍

[@aaronadair697]

Those solo's we're actually guitar and not keyboard. Fredrik is insane!

[@CriticalReactions]

No kidding! That was some smooth playing!

[@dcko1979]

He's a Holdsworth fan so he also did the whole midi and breath controlled stuff :)

[@MasterOfAllGenres]

Yea fredriks guitar sounds like allan holdsworth listen meshuggah album Destroy Erase Improve😜🎸🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼

[@j.f.bastian7118]

And also saxophone and some keyboard/organs.

[@reasonsreasonably]

@@CriticalReactions Second song is Mats Oberg's solo. His phenomenal solo I'll add.

[@antongerasin3871]

THIS IS THE ALBUM that brought me to metal after 2 years of being a classical music snob.

[@whatdothlife4660]

One day about 10 years ago I typed "heaviest song of all time" into Google or Yahoo just for the novelty of it and Catch 33 came up by Meshugga. At the time my jaw dropped and I laughed at the absurdity of this music but I revisited them after another 5 or 6 years and fell in love and have seen them live.

[@oleksiistri8429]

Props to you, because i started my metal journey from easy listening bands of 90s, like Nirvana, Offspring, etc. :) I could not be able to understand this album back in the day.

[@h.p.dominocus]

15:39 There's a video clip from the recording where Fredrik is tapping the hi-hat with his foot while morgan is rockin' out on the rest of the kit. So you never know.

[@tortap]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnrHm3-tYpyLl5Isi=dxS4oiQ_n6IgDbrd looking at it, seeing just morgan, you still wonder where that third arm is at times :D

[@AA-ou2ye]

Fredriks guitars can sound very synthetic at times, he used a breath controller then to make his guitar give cool effects. Now days I do not think he use it any more he did use to bring it on tour with meshuggah for some solos from destroy erase improve album.

[@kyleledermann2473]

3.33 of this album is probably my favorite album of all time. Cuts out 90% of the screachy middle and replaces it with smooth and groove. Nothing has ever hit me like this one. And to think 1997. This accomplished 25 years ago what modern proggy djent bands have been trying to reach for the past 15 years.

[@whatdothlife4660]

The ol' Catch 33

[@oleksiistri8429]

actually djent is not even a style, but a guitar technic and was born under influence of Meshuggah and Dream Theater, obviously it hardly introduced anything new.

[@dcko1979]

We need Bryan to do a reaction on "I" :)

[@progperljungman8218]

Well done Bryan! This is such a treat man! I'm sure great amounts of Meshuggah and/or Mats/Morgan fans etc will eventually find their way to this great video. Loads of kudos to you for doing the full song! I believe that the use of keyboards in here is pretty sparse. Mats Öberg does some synth work on movement 2 and he shares church organ duties with a church musician on movement 20. Thordendahl is credited with synth but mostly I think it's either guitars (possibly synth guitar sometimes) by him or of course "real sax" by phenomenal jazz sax player Jonas Knutsson! There's also bass, mostly played by Thordedahl himself except for a guest bassist in a couple of movements. Fun fact: that voice ("psychonaut's voice")is done by the Meshuggah drummer (also Meshuggah's lyricist) Tomas Haake (not Fredrik Thordendahl)😊 The highest pitched scream is by Jennie Thordendahl - his (then) wife I think . Don't ask me about the lyrical content... I've just enjoyed the musical ride since some years after the release. I do agree that the "jazz element" in here isn't too obvious. I never thought of it as such but happened to see Fredrik Thordendahl's Special Defects listed as jazz-metal when I was checking for anything I'd might like to suggest with that "label". And returning to it with that in mind, it made sense. There's that "free jazz" perspective, lots of jazz fusion drumming and also a lot of improvisational solos. Thordendahl is heavily influenced by the late great unique fusion guitarist Alan Holdsworth and that's very prominent in the solos of this song(=album...) Wonderful reaction and analysis once again Bryan

[@CriticalReactions]

So there *were* more people here than just the 3. That's awesome! I still can't believe that's a real sax player though; that is some of the smoothest playing I've heard in a loooong time. I'll have to look into Jonas Knutsson.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@CriticalReactions You do that! He plays a lot of folky jazz/jazzy folk. Does solo and collaborative works as well as being featured with lots and lots of Swedish artists. Try e.g this wonderful piece from an album with the guitarist Johan Norberg (also collaborating and featured "everywhere"...) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYrGooluoK6GgLc

[@progperljungman8218]

And yeah, I do think you're more than ready for some more Meshuggah. Why not my favourite song/album Catch 33 (yeah, one song full album...)😁

[@brennang9]

@@CriticalReactions Catch Thirtythree would be perfect

[@yigitozver4345]

one of my favorite albums of all time. it feels like a panic attack combined with a hearth attack. unique feel. hes working on the pt2 for some time. hope we hear it soon

[@michaelmercurio5061]

is that why he wasnt touring with meshuggah for a bit? just discovered this album a few weeks ago and have been listening to it non-stop so knowing we might get a part 2 soon is very exciting

[@yigitozver4345]

@@michaelmercurio5061 yeah kinda. Fredrik kinda pulled himself away from the group starting at about pre-Koloss release. Onward Koloss, pretty much he contributed less and less to the songwriting proccess of the band. Last album he was non-existent in terms of songwriting but played some leads on top. And yeah, he is working on pt2 probably onward their 2016 release. He confirmed it on one of his instagram posts too. He can drop it anytime probably after this tour ends.

[@michaelmercurio5061]

@@yigitozver4345 Hopefully it releases soon!! and yeah I saw them for the first time in october and knew he had previously been distant in terms of writing and touring with Meshuggah but was very happy that he performed with them when i saw them

[@Luke.1779]

@@michaelmercurio5061 also worth noting he initially took time off to make a whole new custom studio which is pretty awesome. should mean the quality of pt2 will be as modern as it can be

[@STAR0SS]

I wish Meshuggah would be half as experimental as this, their last albums are good but a bit stale.

[@progperljungman8218]

To me, Catch 33 is the pinnacle

[@STAR0SS]

@@progperljungman8218 Yeah Catch 33 is awesome, but I love obZen too.

[@progperljungman8218]

@@STAR0SS Yeah!

[@AA-ou2ye]

After 2009 when Fredrik did stop writing for meshuggah they become kind of stale and not crazy any more

[@lukesabin691]

Yeah it’s basically the absence of Fredrik’s songwriting imo. Marten writes great tracks, and Lovgren’s writing pleasantly surprised me. But Fredrik’s songs are more interesting. It’s really sad that he hasn’t written a track for the band since Demon’s Name on Koloss. I’m worried that he’s getting ready to retire. We’ve been waiting on SDFX2 for 12+ years, and he apparently didn’t touch the guitar once during his 3 year hiatus from Meshuggah. 😰

[@luc.espargita]

Haven't heard anything similar since. This album was DECADES ahead of its time. As uncomfortable as some parts are, and even if not 100% of it works, it's the best experimental metal album I've ever heard.

[@ambassadortourettes753]

Been rocking this since 97 👌 This one has got lost by time and I'm super glad you unearthed this gem🤘There is a few live songs you can check out and strongly suggest doing such... The drumming on this is absolutely untouchable 🙄 Utterly masterful 🙄You would be surprised how much of what sounds like keyboards is actually guitar....

[@josephbrenner2278]

Not to mention that Fredrick Thordenal is one of the most underrated guitarist. He can play anything and his leads are highly influenced by Allen Holdsworth.

[@shryggur]

At some point, you've been wondering whether Meshuggah has any repetitive sections that are being constantly changed bit by bit. If memory serves, you even used the word "randomly." There are VERY deep-dive videos on this very subject on a youtube channel called Metal Music Theory. There's a 10-video playlist on Meshuggah riff analysis, specifically on Catch Thirtythree. Just the names of his videos tell you a lot ("Entropy and permutations," for instance). Catch 33 is their peak if you ask me. A perfect combination of FTSD's avant-garde approach with Meshuggah's heavy grooves produces one of the most unique musical experiences. I highly recommend giving it a listen and then watching a video or two by Metal Music Theory, for the sake of musical discovery if nothing else.

[@MrSnask]

Do the the 21 minutes song "I" with meshuggah ;) A real masyterpice.

[@firstpogo]

Your criticisms of why some parts make you uncomfortable are the exact reason this song is genius. Art isn't supposed to make you feel cozy.

[@off6848]

That’s really true about pausing music

[@thorgrimb5393]

You are the first one to react to this album I think. Love it!

[@CriticalReactions]

I saw a few others but maybe they weren't full album reactions. If not though, I'll certainly take the honor of being the first! :)

[@Luke.1779]

thanks for the reaction! btw it was of course Mats Oberg from mats/morgan playing the organ/scatting over top. to me theres not many pieces of music that can be considered one of the greatest of all time (including the bachs/beethovens etc). and maybe im bias but this 'album' feels like its right up there from a true expression standpoint. way ahead of its time in so many areas + virtuoso level playing and incredibly vivid ideas. insanely good piece of art

[@AA-ou2ye]

This is one of my top 10 fav albums I reallly glad you did this video! It is a very unique album. How to describe the genre of this album is hard for sure. Psychedelic jazz metal? Psychedelic space metal? The album is very psychedelic. If you listen to the album again I recommend the 3.33 version that was released on relapse records. It has more modern sound production.

[@UltraMegaSeaMonkey]

Lol this song is a trip. And if you're tripping, it is a voyage.

[@josephbrenner2278]

That's a guitar not a keyboard my friend. I'll say it again. Fredrik Thordenal is one of the most underrated guitarist of all time

[@MasterOfAllGenres]

Listen meshuggas album Destroy Erase Improve😜🎸🤘🏼🤘🏼🎸👌🏼

[@seonggihun4448]

Thanks for this reaction, my favourite record of all time

[@blackadder8691]

It’s amazing how important Fredrik is to metal

[@Luke.1779]

how important he is to Music* he should go down as one of the absolute greats imo

[@22fret]

I've got version 3.33 of SNW. Absolutely bonkers, I love it...

[@interstellarwarpdrive9600]

Its guitar solos man😂 Thordendahl is the Allan Holdsworth of metal, a lot of legato playing.

[@Esotyrik]

The alarm motif is actually me sleeping in for school but I keep staying in my dream to listen to the music the Hyperdimensional Alienoids are showing me in the spirit realm haha 22:36

[@moa2252]

The Sax is a real screaming sax dude. The drummer is Morgan Agren, a beast.

[@WolfgangRP]

Gotta love a bit of Moorish Phrygian

[@bigfannypack]

Dude all these solos are done by Frederik on guitar besides the obvious sax solo later in the song… Frederik is a frickin legend!!!

[@WebsterA]

There's a few ripping keyboard solos. The first track er.. the first solo is Mats and his modulation bar 😄

[@Astral0muffiN]

I love this album but the 3.33 version from 97 is always going to be the definitive cut of this album for me. It just feels so empty without the 11 minute closer "Missing Time" to cap off the final movement and as a callback to the eerie ideas and saxophone during "Z2 reticuli".

[@progperljungman8218]

'99. But I think it's a bit misplaced on the album even if it's a great track. Maybe it's the length and being pretty straight off fusion towards all the short style shifting pieces. Oooh Baby Baby as a closer fits pretty nicely though - but then that's an early M&M track featuring Thordendahl.

[@CriticalReactions]

I read about the 3.33 version but went with the original since it looked like the remixed version was created by the record label and not by Fredrik. I also saw that several movements have been removed and, despite the addition of new sections, was 10 minutes shorter. So without digging into which one was the definitive one, which might spoil the listen, I went with the original.

[@AA-ou2ye]

I also agree that 3.33 version is the final cut. Also especially drums sounds better the cymbals sounds more modern. Also the church organ stuff is fun to listen one time.. If they would put it as an outro track I would not mind. Anyway Fredrik has been working on the follow up to this album for some years how far he have come into the process is very unknown. I also agree the missing time really fits a lot better with the album then the church organ stuff

[@reasonsreasonably]

​@@AA-ou2ye As someone that has listened to the original thousands of times, I can definitely agree with you that the church organ parts are hard to listen to over and over again, but I am so used to hearing this album that I'm no longer a good judge of what is good, bad, or ok. Everything works on this album for me now. In fact, after hearing it again right now. I think it's great atmosphere and I prefer it to the more straightahead 3.33 version, though I love Missing Time and Oh Baby Baby.

[@danny.chulo.]

That soloing is the guitar, it’s Fredrick playing them not a keyboard

[@JamesFenczik]

its impossible to listen to this record and ever think about music the same agian.

[@Oxdrum34]

So stoked to see a full album review of this avant garde masterpeice! Great video, thanks! Also, what's the song played during the "Outro" section, while it scrolls through your many patreons? Very cool sound.

[@CriticalReactions]

That's my own untitled work. Just a single riff that I never figured out how to develop into something larger but works very well as an outro 😅

[@jacobtapianieto9655]

I just heard Meshuggah's "Destroy Erase Improve" album and the last song, "Sublevels" has the same chord progression at the end.

[@ryn5671]

Really love to see you react to "Fantomas - Live in Montreux" w Terry Bozzio on drums (150 piece kit and SIGHT READING")

[@progrockplaylists]

this is so dissonant but thats exactly what my soul needs. this makes me happy

[@avantprog6902]

There is a clip with Fredrik and Morgan Agren posted on KZbin.

[@landrec2]

This is sick, sick! Going on the work playlist, no coffee required tomorrow. Again... kudos to the geniuses suggesting tracks, and to the great reaction and analysis of Critical Reactions Man. Keep these banger tracks and amazing undiscovered bands- Keep em coming! You have my full attention.

[@vitellonealvapore877]

my all time favourite album, love it. it was released the same day and month of my birthday, when i found out that coincidence i began to love it even more, so i celebrated it buying a swedish first pressing copy from 97. i can play it by heart on rhythm guitar including i, galactus / zeta 1 reticuli solos .. but i still have to learn all the other solos. i will eventually.

[@christopherblowers443]

Bud you gotta listen to vildhjarta's newest album. Front to back. You will appreciate the shit out this.

[@christopherblowers443]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kITVfqqVi8eUpK8

[@opiniondude1]

I remember pre-ordering this album, still one of my favourites.

[@jacobtapianieto9655]

Meshuggah meets prog and jazz fusion!

[@FaquirHemofilico]

I wish I could listen to this for the first time again... I envy you. Best album of all time.

[@WebsterA]

Can you breathe? Sax man: 37:00 38:19

[@krilleandersson]

Best reaction channel on KZbin. Thank you! ❤

[@FranzKEYGUIMPET80]

Greatest metal sax solo

[@honk1419]

is catch ever going to thirty three?

[@reasonsreasonably]

The sax has delay on it.

[@haurg7418]

Keyboard 😂

[@Weeping_Somnambulist]

"Yeah, I don't know what time signature we're in any more though" - Brian like 5 minutes into the album

[@PuppetMaster-Blade]

This is actually a shortened version of the album, the original is close to an hour and it doesnt fade at the end

[@MechaAkuma]

Thanks for the review. Saw the whole thing.

[@MaaZeus]

Not gonne lie, I absolutely hated this. Probably because it reminded me way too much of Free Jazz and I consider Free Jazz to be music equivalent to modern art. You know, art from people who throw a banana peel and a dog turd into an empty room and call it art "that represents the pain and conflict of human existence". Anyway, I digress, they are obviously skilled musicians but are in my ears wasting their talents on playing apparently random notes with no rhyme or reason. 😅 That said, this did have some very cool sounding sections but 90% of the time I was straining my mind in trying to find where is the music, where is the melody and where is the groove.

[@STAR0SS]

This kind of music is like spicy food. You start low, get use to it and need something spicier to get a kick, and spicier, and spicier. This is Carolina Reaper level.

[@SpeedOfThought1111]

i tried showing my brother a psyopus song (imogen's puzzle) recently and he couldn't handle it either, saying it didn't sound like music, couldn't find the melody/groove. more complex music takes longer to digest and absorb and analyze. the more you listen to extremely talented and different/higher level music with advanced time signatures the more you get used to it and enjoy it on a first listen. Start diving more into the deep end.

[@lukesabin691]

I hear you man. But this is far from free jazz (minus the church organ/ladies screaming bit). The groove is there, the whole thing is in 4/4 and the guitar parts are composed, aside from the solos obviously. All that being said, this album is stressful and uncomfortable to listen to in many parts. But it’s all intentional. It’s tension and release, taken to the extreme.

[@branthall1787]

That's called being closed minded. Writing a short essay to indirectly state that is pseudo intellectualism.

[@dzemperator]

@@branthall1787 that's a pseud reply my friend

[@therobb5738]

Aztec 2-Step still scares my soul. Fredrik is an alien who's talent surpasses his instrument.

[@Weeping_Somnambulist]

Holy shit idk how I missed this one Brian. Will have to watch when I have 90 free minutes one of these days! This is one of the most interesting records I've ever heard. Used to spin it a lot in my twenties. Excited to hear your thoughts! Rumor has it Thordendal has been working on the follow-up to this for the last decade. He even built a home studio to facilitate the recording of it and he just finished that up like last year. There is another project heavily influenced by this called "Intercepting Pattern - The Encounter" which features the drummer from brutal tech-death outfit Defeated Sanity. Very good record as well, highly recommended. If you ever get a chance to do a reaction to "I" by Meshuggah that would be sweet. Twenty minutes of mind-bending riffage and pummeling drum wizardry. Thanks for all you do!