Composer Reacts to Kreator - Pleasure to Kill (REACTION & ANALYSIS)

[@berserker8884]

Another thing. Kreator was one of the big bands that inspired death metal as a genre. This record is often "cited" as one of the proto death metal albums that heavily inspired the genre. So yeah, this is OG stuff.

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

Kreator were one of the "Big 4" of what was called the "Teutonic Thrash" bands that came out of Germany and German-speaking countries. Compared to their American counterparts they were closest in spirt to Slayer and were among the bands that inspired what would become death metal. Kreator were probably the most important and influential of those bands, and this song/album in particular was a huge influence on death metal. This was their second album, hence the roughness/loosness, and personally I prefer the Kreator albums that came after where they refined their sound a bit without sacrificing any of their aggression: Terrible Certainty, Extreme Aggression, and Come of Souls are all top-tier thrash albums; Coma of Souls is even quasi-prog thrash. They took a nosedive in the 90s when they tried to change styles, but their "return to thrash" starting with Violent Revolution in '01 has been solid too, with Phantom Antichrist especially being excellent. This definitely wouldn't be the song I'd use to introduce someone to Kreator unless I knew they loved this raw, punky, pure speed/aggression style of thrash/metal. EDIT: You have the metal history part slightly wrong. It's hard to explain clearly because there's a lot of crisscrossing influences. 80s metal in general had two main influences: the "classic metal" 70s bands (Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden slightly later); and punk, especially Motorhead. Motorhead were really that "middle-ground" between punk, rock, and metal. Early black metal were the bands descended directly from Motorhead: Venom first and then Bathory. The thrash bands tended to be those that tried to fuse the classic metal bands' riffs with the speed/aggression of Motorhead and other punk music. Whether a band landed on the "thrash" side of "black metal" side basically depended on how they mixed those two influences. It's really a spectrum, and bands like Kreator (and Slayer) leaned more towards the punk/Motorhead angle but had just enough of the classic metal influences to still be called thrash. These influences carried over into death metal. If Megadeth/Metallica were more refined it's mostly because they took more inspiration from the melodic and occasionally proggy elements of Priest and Maiden, and it also made them more palatable compared to the rawer, more extreme bands.

[@CriticalReactions]

Gotcha. There's so much history to rock and metal that it honestly should be taught in academia 😄 I'll get it all right eventually.

[@cbn6635]

I've always seen Kreator as Slayer's dirty, german cousin, and the whole 'Pleasure to Kill' album is Kreator's answer to 'Reign in Blood'; chaotic solo's, barely contained speed and pure aggression. Primitive, but effective as hell. A european thrash metal classic...

[@CriticalReactions]

The barely contained speed is such a unique aspect of this type of thrash. It isn't my cup of tea but I'm coming around to appreciate the electricity and tension of it.

[@cbn6635]

For fun you should try out deathgrinders Angelcorpse covering this particular track; they even out the 'sloppiness' of the original with machinegun drumming and even more intensity...

[@187nemesis3]

No, the Pleasure to Kill came out first, in March 1986. So it can't be an answer to the Reining in Blood. The Reign in Blood didn't come out until October 1986.

[@linusfotograf]

I love the Kreator albums around the end of the 80's and start of the 90's when their tightness and the production got so much better. Coma of Souls!!

[@SavageIntent]

I've begun to realise I value youthful hubris over technical proficiency. I get bored by technical twiddling, but I love those young metalheads in the 80s who just wanted to play brootal and fast and evil and just went for it without being particularly good. But they made up for it with the sheer single-minded passion and obsession of youth.

[@Dima-jc7fx]

As much as I enjoy their later stuff, this is a bit too early and raw(especially for the first-time encounter). Also they recorded it at a very young age. People who recommended Coma Of Souls knew what they were talking about, absolute classic which reveals Kreator's best songwriting and performance. Btw it came out in 1990, just 2 months after Megadeth's Rust In Peace(Holy Wars album) - so these two more deserve comparison between each other :)

[@person1227]

This album defined the early part of high school for me (early 2000s). I was just discovering more and more underground metal and this album blew my mind. I've heard so much more metal since then but still appreciate this album for what it brought to so many genres that were in early formulation around this time. The rest of the tracks on the album are also really fantastic and similarly fast and loose. I hope you dig more into their later material. There's so much more, especially on the melodic side. And they tighten up by the next couple of albums after this one.

[@RayN49208]

I bought My Endless pain lp in the 80s ..Mille Petrozza has always been the fastest Singer -rythm guitar - lead guitar - of the 80s...besides a brilliant composer...along with Mustaine are two guitar gods ....Hetfield was only a punk guitarist in the 80s ...and still is ...Mille is the thrash metal best Frontman

[@wtw5002]

Gotta love the simple ingredients that make thrash great. S-tier riffs, double kicks, goofy lyrics, and great album art.

[@brettanomyces7077]

Would be cool to see you check out their later work. This is super raw early stuff. They became super tight and melodic with epic choruses. Something like "Voices of the Dead" from 2005. Even 2 albums after this one they were a lot tighter. These guys are outstanding to see live.

[@antoniomachado8782]

I love Kreator. Always have. And although thrash metal is not my favourite kind of metal (but death metal, some black and brutal/tech death), Kreator is one of my favourite bands. Let me suggest, for much more melodic but still very intensive, from Kreator, the track "Civilization Collapse". I think you'll really like it! Thank you.

[@mooninites3]

I think I recall Fenriz of Darkthrone saying that the hollow tom drum sound comes from putting the drum mics under the set instead of on top.

[@CriticalReactions]

Oooo that's a neat tidbit. Love the ingenuity too; a small, simple decision that drastically changes the sound palette of a track.

[@AsphyxGr]

Liked your presentation and analysis, very interesting because you went into depth. Being a composer myself and a listener of various music styles I 'd like to share some points. Music produced in an era is always tied to sociopolitical environment of the time or the previous decade, even if the music doesn't seem to be political at all. Many people in the 70s & 80s had the non-conforming attitude and question of authority which led to evolution of such styles. The point was music to be raw and not precise, diversity over uniformity, a kind of a sociopolitical message. Punk also adopted this kind of attitude & way of thinking. Now for the music part, something that is maybe hard to understand for people not that familiar with those styles is the overall atmosphere created. If one thinks about it artistically, Pleasure to Kill can be a great resemblance of a horror movie where the killer has a confused (sloppy) mind and acts sadistically (super fast and intense music) in the climax of his acts. Of course this was not intended 100% by the band, their sloppiness happened to align with the topics they were covering in their songs. Same can be the case for songs resembling the horrors of war, mental illnesses and other grim kind of topics, in my subjective opinion the overall atmosphere created is a fitter resemblance than music produced with precision and correctness. Adding to that, the huge distortion was not there in order to hide the mistakes and sloppiness. Thrash and punk bands in the 70s / 80s didn't care at all about precision and hitting the right notes. Neither the producers of the time cared as this music started to sell in big audiences. The huge raw and gritty distortion was to add to the atmosphere I mentioned previously, this overall attitude eventually led to creating death metal genre. Enjoyed your video and subscribed !

[@shagstars]

It was a bridge between thrash metal and early death metal. Deaths first album also has moments that resembles this. The rest of the album is pretty much this speed with some interesting riffs here and there but its pretty devastating to listen through it all in one run tho if your tired.

[@swagxmagician]

You should check out Tricot. They're a Japanese band with a lot of Math Rock influence. I'd recommend Pitch Black (真っ黒), Potage, or On The Boom

[@bobhalford]

I love this song. Probably takes a few listens to catch onto it. I think it's brilliant.

[@8o86]

first time hearing, like it

[@Marduk567]

You should try "Sargeist - Let the devil in". The bands name contains two german words. First is Sarg (coffin) and second is Geist (ghost/spirit).

[@suffocationgreece1911]

They can stand by Slayer and seps. Hail German bros💪💪💪

[@antondzajajurca7797]

About misspelled names: We (old) metalheads are ylyterat unedjucadead cavemen.

[@bjhellstream]

They're so much better nowadays. Really better musicians, better songwriters and better lyrics. Enemy of God is one of my favourite.

[@thegrimner]

Not much to say here, but to refer back to the comment I made on Megadeth's reaction at the start of the week. This is the same subgenre, played with an entirely different approach that is a lot sloppier and very punk in atitude. Only Slayer kind of comes close to this kind of ferocity. You can also clearly see how this kind of forms a missing link to the 90s black metal scene. I'd say the closest connection between this and US thrash would be bands like Slayer, but even Slayer was considerably tighter than german thrash at this point. Kreator themselves would go on to become vastly more profficient than on this debut, with socially conscious and political lyrics, and by the time of Coma of Souls they were just as skilled as any of the US bands, and, somewhat scaringly, they were at this point far tighter than Sodom and Destruction, who were their contemporaries. Sodom's debut, in particular, makes this sound as tight as Holy Wars. Let that sink in. There is a "sloppier" branch of US thrash, which is more commonly referred to as "crossover", because it crosses over with hardcore punk, such as DRI, and some of the more overtly political bands like Nuclear Assault and Sacred Reich. The takeaway here being, never underestimate the influence of Punk in metal. And you're right in associating thrash to this kind of sound, ultimately this was the blueprint for what's generally considered thrash, even if the american big four were far more commercially successful. Especially in poorer regions of the world, this was the kind of thrash that took root. Metallica and Megadeth clones did appear, of course, but they would be by and large more derivative and forgetable. One such band to start with a similar german ferocity (in fact, more akin to proto death metal than thrash), then transcend and come into its own is of course Sepultura, who did come from a poor neighbourhood in a poor country under a military dictatorship at the time. So, Kreator are just as foundational to modern metal as Metallica or Iron Maiden.

[@berserker8884]

Interesting that Sepultura started as a Metallica or Megadeth "clone". I honestly don't see it at all when listening to say Beneath the Remains, but that might already be the diversion on their own. I see how Sodom inspired a lot of BM, but I don't see that with Kreator in particular, though there probably was a lot of course. But, if I'm not mistaken, Kreator did inspire a lot of OSDM, epspecially on the European side. As did early Sepultura, if I'm not mistaken again. Thoughts? Also, I think Dark Angel is a neccesary mention here. A "forgotten" American thrash band that was also proto death metal and really helped bridge the gap in US. I remember the Death documentary mentioning how Dark Angel was headlining these "extreme" concerts too.

[@thegrimner]

@@berserker8884 I didn't mean that Sepultura started as a Metallica clone, quite the opposite, that early Sepultura was much more indebted to german thrash and bands like Celtic Frost, as well as crust punk like Discharge. Max would famously tell this story on how he had a tape made by a friend that had Hellhammer on side A and Discharge on side B and he would think they were the same genre of band. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I sometimes edit what I say and that leads to mistakes. But the sloppy intensity of early Sepultura owes a lot to the european thrash. As for Kreator being directly influential in black metal, yes, it could be said that bands like Sodom or Celtic Frost were more directly influential, but as a whole, eurothrash in general and german thrash in particular was incredibly influencial in black metal. ANd of course, they were influential in old school european death metal, which was, by and large a separate beast from what Morbid Angel or Deicide or Death were doing. And there's a lot of cross influences as well, especially through tape trading, but I'm trying here to give a broad and general overview for Bryan's benefit

[@berserker8884]

@@thegrimner oh I see. I thought it was weird that Sepultura would be laregly influenced by Metallica or Megadeth as they sound much closer to german thrash.

[@berserker8884]

Love Kreator! Probably my favorite classic thrash band alongside with Metallica. P.S: Kreator is german and is not pronoucned as creator, but means the same thing. So not a misspelling.

[@swapticsounds]

Are you sure? I am from Germany and know Kreator always pronounced English. We do have the word "kreieren" (to create) and "Kreation" (more in the sense of fashion etc, for the genesis it´s rather "Schöpfung") but not Kreator, that´s "Schöpfer" (mainly in the sense of God) or "Urheber", "Bildner", "Designer" etc in human sense. So, I guess, Kreator is just a purposefully missspelled English word.

[@SubwaySweden]

My childhood heroes back in the 80's

[@ambassadortourettes753]

Thank you for the flash back to 4th grade 👌one of my first cassette tapes 😂

[@annodomini1991]

Oh this is old-school, cool death/thrash metal stuff.

[@Gustavo-ew7om]

This was kreator rolling steam over the big 4

[@HurricaneGregor]

The fast parts are the definition of "fast and loose" haha The first Kreator album I heard is "Phantom Antichrist" from 2011, which I really enjoyed. Definitely more rhythmically sound, but maybe not as "exciting". But as a drummer, I prefer things to be played in time 😁

[@CriticalReactions]

Fast and loose is a perfect description of what's happening here. And there certainly is something exciting about this -- like the song is teetering on falling apart but the musicians are fighting against it to keep the song going. The "sloppy" playing adds a certain tension that cleaner bands don't always have.

[@ac130kz]

Thrash isn't really that noisy, it's a LOT cleaner than Hardcore Punk (which is actually one of the biggest influences on Thrash). You should listen to early 90s Kreator, completely different story

[@calebkempf1225]

I would say that Destruction is the German thrash bridge to black metal.

[@Bryan-T]

this is a classic

[@MittensOnly]

Kreator is misspelled, but not in the way you think Kreature is German for creature, and Kreator are a German band :)

[@suffocationgreece1911]

I disagree.There is at leeast two legentery riffs in this deathrash masterpiece

[@stockcomsprite]

Take a look to Coma of souls

[@ysqure3]

Oddly enough, this actually only has one guitarist. Curious decision to go with the panning change to distinguish solos.

[@CriticalReactions]

Yeah, what? That's such a weird decision. I wonder if it had anything to do with trends. Everyone else changed panning between solos so they did too even though they didn't have two guitarists.

[@SonOfTheLion]

Man am I glad you said their timing is loose. It feels weird trying to learn this song and feeling sure you have the tempo down to then realize you are still out of sync with the actual track.

[@CriticalReactions]

I hadn't thought of it from that perspective but yeah, I think I'd have a real tough time replicating this song because of their time de-sync. 20 years of playing music on the beat, every fiber of my being would be screaming at me to stop rushing/dragging 🤣

[@MaaZeus]

Why mispell? Because it is so kool and KVLT! Oh the teachers would be so mad if they heard of this. Actually on a more serious note, this may not be so off the mark. Remember that the members of these bands, when they made their first albums, were basically kids, hormone ridden teenagers or very young adults at best. You (being as old as I am) are probably aware of the l33t speech that was so rad when we were teen nerds... You get the idea.

[@CriticalReactions]

Oh geez, yeah I remember l33t speak. Talk about some past cringe. You're right though, that's a perfect example of teens messing with the written form because they it's cool to them.

[@SavageIntent]

It would be funny to see a reaction to Blasphemy - Fallen Angel Of Doom. You'd hate it for sure haha.

[@journeyman66]

Kreator Is not mispelled, it's the name of a demon in german mythology. You know Germany, the country Kreator Is from.

[@CriticalReactions]

I did a quick search and couldn't find anything about their name being based off of a demon in German mythology nor could I find anything about a German demon named Kreator. I'm not saying your wrong but do you have a link where I could read up on this?

[@joeblogs4645]

Roto Toms

[@TexasFriedCriminal]

I hate the later 80ties Kreator stuff. Technical precision is boring. This is where it's at. When you take pleasure to kill, you have no time for perfect timing!

[@SubwaySweden]

look what you made me do, I had to get out of bed ;) whoever told you about the evolution of metal is completely wrong. Black metal started with Venom, then Bathory made it into the blueprint for todays Black Metal. Thrash evolved from speed metal and punk, origin of thrash metal is debated... some speed metal bands made thrash metal songs way before thrash metal but the rest of the album was speed metal (i.e. Excider, Venom etc.) . The majority would say the first thrash metal band was Anvil from Canada. I would not say that there is a difference between European thrash metal and US thrash metal.... both sides of the pond had bands that sounded more like punk speeded up and more knowledgeable musicianship.... for instance Germans big 4 that included Kreator, Sodom, Tankard and Destruction where spread out over the thrash spectra for what it was back in the mid to late 80's. All and all I really enjoy your honest reactions it's a fresh take and makes me happy with some honesty on this cesspool we call content. Last but not least, I loved Kreator (by the way the way you spell it in German) but I cringe when I listen to them now I can't listen to them anymore to be honest so coming from a 2022 reaction I would agree totally.... it has not aged well and you kind of picked a track on top of everything where they tried to be as fast as they possibly could.... it as a big thing back then, being the fastest. Not sure if somebody else already commented the above but if not hope it helped. If you want to listen to epic metal from back then that is more up your alley you should try out Helloween - Keeper of the seven keys albums

[@ashleymarsden8676]

One of the real stalwarts of thrash metal. Never enjoyed them personally, but their influence and legacy cannot be denied.

[@HeikkiHeiskanen]

Kreator has some good songs but man this is not one of them.

[@joeblogs4645]

You have absolutely no idea what you're on about mate,go back to school kid

[@pestilentdeath5814]

Poser

[@ruilacas184]

This is a classic