Composer Switching to Dorico after Using Finale since 2005!

[@jacoviacartwright1826]

Well, we got the dreaded email today so looks like we don’t have a choice but to switch to Dorico.

[@TimCorpus]

There's also Sibelius and Musescore. I support Dorico though because I like how they're investing in the updates.

[@markbrooks7157]

I plan on staying with Finale unless I’m required to learn Dorico. I’ve been using it professionally for 36 years. I’m 70 years old. Not looking forward to having to learn a whole new environment.

[@TimCorpus]

@@markbrooks7157 certainly not required to. It could be worth doing a Dorico trial since it's going to be a big discount from Finale.

[@markbrooks7157]

@@TimCorpus I may be required to by the publishing house I’m on staff at. Don’t know what they’re thinking yet.

[@avdltd]

@@TimCorpus does it have a movie window? Do you know if it is still obtainable?

[@bethbradfish]

Thank you, Tim. I will be following you and studying these posts!

[@TimCorpus]

Hope it helps!

[@MattRileyMusic]

Thank you so much for this video. I just got the terrible news today and had to crossgrade. I've used Finale everyday for 25 years and never wanted to have to learn a new app. I just don't have time or energy but I'm forced to I guess. This video is helpful in that journey.

[@TimCorpus]

I'm glad this was helpful. I'm trying to respond to all the messages about this but I have two new videos that will help composers switch coming out this week.

[@bethbradfish]

Thanks!

[@TimCorpus]

Thank you for the support!

[@Origen17]

Brother, you're about to get a buttload of new views on this!

[@TimCorpus]

🤣 happy to help! More videos on the way.

[@jameslawrencewirth]

I've used Finale very extensively since 1995. Time for this old dog to learn new tricks!

[@TimCorpus]

You got this! Whether it's Dorico or any other program, at least modern software often has some better built-in features.

[@johnmstone1]

Back a dozen years ago, Mark Johnson wrote a book entitled "Finale A Trailblazer's Guide" which was a handy desktop handbook for Finale. Since many of us are now being forced to learn another publishing software, do you know of any handbook published similar to this for Dorico; especially for users on a Macintosh platform? Thank you,

[@TimCorpus]

In my latest video, I show the Dorico help system, which is really interesting in how you access it (F1 then you select where you have a question in the program). kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXuWdn-beM2Nobs The nice thing about this is that it's a living document, so any time there are updates or changes, it's automatically available. I'm going to try and do more short videos showing single process tips, hopefully those will help. 👍 Let me know if you have any specific challenges you're facing.

[@LynnDavidNewton]

Thanks for this. I'm one of the disappointed crowd of Finale users who learned the news yesterday about that product's end of life, so I bought Dorico today. It starts up. That's about all I can say about it so far. I'll bet you get a spike in viewers. I used Finale since about 2002 or so. I don't call myself an expert, but for 20 years I was a music engraver in the old style, i.e. using music typewriters and graphic arts gear. I've also been a software guy since the early 1980s. And of course I'm a composer. I'll be interested to learn Dorico now that I own it and have a motivation to get on it.

[@TimCorpus]

Thanks for the note. Hope the video was helpful! I'm curious, after you started up Dorico, what were some of the first questions or confusions you had? Perhaps that's a good next video for me.

[@LynnDavidNewton]

@@TimCorpus Yeah, well - the question was: Now what? I got as far as clicking on the icon and starting and saying Shazam! There it is. That's the sum total of my knowledge about it so far. I had to quit and do other things. It may be a while before I get started on it. I've been busy working on Logic Pro and have been using fully-written pieces exported from Finale as MIDI file as starter tracks to build things over. I have a backlog of some legacy stuff I'd like to do that with. I'm an old guy now (81) so don't figure I'll be out there telling anyone I've used Dorico or Logic for twenty years or more and have a bunch of tips to pass on.

[@TimCorpus]

@@LynnDavidNewton Well "now what?" is a great question to start with! I agree that sometimes it's just easier to work in a DAW like Logic!

[@ThomasLock-n2r]

Been with Finale for decades. Will have to look at this.😮

[@TimCorpus]

I'm about to publish some more videos to help.

[@genekelly3961]

Can Finale files convert to Dorico? Also, is there a hyperscribe option?

[@ThomasLock-n2r]

@@genekelly3961 I know a lot of people having problems transferring Finale to Dorico

[@TimCorpus]

@@genekelly3961 you would need to export a .mxml which can be opened in other programs. I cover that in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZSsZnmFbM-Ga6c

[@TimCorpus]

@@ThomasLock-n2r do you know what other issues they're running on to? I think some people will definitely go to Sibelius too.

[@Soundofjoy]

I thought the note crashing together in Finale was my computer issue... Making the crossover change to Dorico. Thank you for the video new subscriber.

[@TimCorpus]

I used to have random notes in Finale that would just sit at the bottom of the page, like in the footer for some random annoying reason. I have never had issues like that in Dorico.

[@rickhole]

Finale: On Aug 26, 2024 Make Music has announced they are killing Finale. They are recommending users port to Dorico. I have used Finale for 22 years and have learned to get around its 1000 Bugs. My big concern is not being able to import Finale files except by MusicXML. I have 22 years of work, some of which will have to be imported.

[@justinandmaxgames5472]

Same bag for me - 26 years. 10000 files (no joke). Hope there's some kind of batch export.

[@TimCorpus]

@@justinandmaxgames5472 @rickhole I completely agree. I have a video I'm working on right now to talk about this. But ya, my big concern is any special notation stuff that will have to be recreated in a new system.

[@rainbowkeykaraoke]

@@justinandmaxgames5472 the crossgrade includes Finale 27 which has better mxl export. 25 and 27 have batch export, but yes you will have to do some cleanup in Dorico. mxl everything AND do a print to PDF as well, so you have a backup of how it looked in Finale.

[@k_b7341]

Thank you for the review! A little remark: the panoramic view in Dorico is called Galley View.

[@jimj3031]

It is good to finally have someone who used Finale help us! I have been looking for someone to tell us…. In Finale you do it this way, In Dorico, you do it this way.

[@TimCorpus]

Happy to help! I'm working on some more Finale > Dorico videos too

[@kornsuwin]

boy i do wonder why this video showed up in my feed it definitely can't be topical no sir

[@jamesleiter4222]

Just got the email from Finale. Not sure whete to go. Hope this will guide me.

[@TimCorpus]

I have more videos coming this week to help!

[@PeterHAdams]

I am screwed! Finale is toast, and I have about 5,000 files in Finale.

[@TimCorpus]

I have a video coming soon about how to deal with this!

[@PeterHAdams]

@@TimCorpus I use Finale for French Baroque lute tab. I created a template that uses the articulation creation feature to place letters in the tablature. So, does Dorico place the articulations properly?

[@TimCorpus]

​​@PeterHAdams so I'm not sure about custom articulations. You can make custom articulations in Dorico too and control the parameters of how they are set. I'm guessing that after you import the sheet music, if it doesn't carry over you may need to create the custom articulations and then in the library which controls them, set the placement specs so it looks correct globally. You won't (shouldn't) need to adjust each individual articulation.

[@CreativeMindsAudio]

I am really miss going to miss finale. especially the fast switching between note durations. Sadly it's been super buggy for me lately so i haven't used it as much. with it being discontinued i'm worried about my old songs getting lost. I've been using it since around 2002.

[@mixedupfilesmusical4038]

you won't miss it once u learn dorico. trust me. finale succcccked.

[@CreativeMindsAudio]

@@mixedupfilesmusical4038 yeah that's why i stopped using it. almost every time i use the latest version it crashes. i found the 2009 and 2011 versions more stable lol.

[@TimCorpus]

I have some recommendations to help with this transition. Stay tuned for a new video this week.

[@avdltd]

Iv'e been using Finale forever. I use version 2010(!) because of the plethora of bugs and crashes in the later versions, and the absence of a movie window. The new programs are so complicated, that, whenever I write for a real (not MIDI) ensemble , I use a pen and paper! No bugs, or crashes!

[@TimCorpus]

I often say my favorite of the Finale's was 2014. 🤣

[@KevinLynchMusic]

Same!!! Been at it since 2004. Time for change. Dorico looks like it does a lot that took Finale hours to do.

[@TimCorpus]

What took me the most time in Finale was adjusting every collision and text or expression, which was frustrating especially globally. That has saved me hours in Dorico.

[@DirkTomandl]

FYI - several videos by Steinberg to help with the transition from Finale to Dorico: kzbin.info/aero/PLoyaeouPUsds4tcAcLTR1lrrvloMkGPo_

[@TimCorpus]

Those will be so helpful for folks.

[@RoelA.Garcia]

Thanks for the comparison.. I've used finale once or twice in early 2000s but I can't stand the workflow so I decided to switch to Sibelius and used it for a couple of years until Avid bought it, that was the time I started using Musescore and it's been great! Although it's quite limited, I love it. I just crossgraded from finale to Dorico, I haven't yet started using it, hope it works for me

[@TimCorpus]

Ya, whichever works for you is the right answer.👍

[@robinthomsoncomposer]

Completely agree that being able to drag text boxes around would be fantastic

[@TimCorpus]

Interacting with the page templates drives me nuts 🤣🥴

[@k_b7341]

A little help: Always draw text frames across the whole page. That way the text will be centred. For a lot of cases that will be all you need.

[@jameslawrencewirth]

Yeah, Finale's text caused me cussing fits! hope it gets better with Dorico!

[@TimCorpus]

It is!

[@kenncollins2012]

Here we go! #ripFinale

[@TimCorpus]

We had a good run!

[@anotherstarwarsvictim]

the problem with Dorico is that Steinberg will ask you to install 3 or 4 more apps in order to install Dorico...

[@robinthomsoncomposer]

That is not true There are only a couple and they relate to installation and authorization and you are missing out big time if you let that put you off

[@LuiDeca]

and good luck if you want to add hairpins in the middle of a long note. although admittedly, it's a minor invonvenience compared to what it does right. and at least they finally added the ability to drag notes around with the mouse... but every time i want to do something in the middle of a long note: uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[@joonasneumann9088]

You can make the frames center. Just make sure to expand the frame from the very left to the very right. And also make sure the page margins are the same.

[@TimCorpus]

Ya that's true, or also keeping same measurements from the sides. I'd like to have more modern settings though. 👍👍

[@joonasneumann9088]

@@TimCorpus I think it's quite easy if you already have made a title page template. Might as well save as default that margins are euqal and then just center the text in normal text settings. I wouldn't reccomend doing it as you did in the video, where the frame is kind of in the middle somewhere. Because if you decide to change the page or staff size, the frames could shift (this shifting was frustrating at first but when I figured out the locking mechanism, it works perfectly!)

[@guyshard]

Switched to Dorico as soon as the first version was out. The best notation program ever. My main issue with the other ones was always technical: they would open sound and midi ports only half of the time whatever computer I was using. From the very first version of Dorico up to Dorico 5 Pro I've never had one issue.

[@TimCorpus]

Ya the MIDI connection stuff is a dream. It's hard when I go back to Finale to work.

[@LeeBlaske]

I started with version 1.0 of Finale, but switched to Dorico early on in its development. I'm not looking back. For me, everything about Dorico is WAY better. Dorico has a different way of doing things, and I found I just had to drop all of my preconceptions and go with the way Dorico wants to do things. Some things bothered me, initially, but now I know where to find everything and it seems to make sense to me. FWIW, after a couple of years of Dorico use, I did have to go back and work on some large scale orchestrations I did in Finale. That was a REAL PITA. I kind of had to re-learn Finale. For me, straddling between Finale and Dorico would be really inconvenient. If I never have to open Finale ever again, that's fine with me. Dorico does a huge amount of work for you, so you don't have to spend endless amounts of time tweaking. FWIW, no real point on sending a message to Finale "if they're listening." I don't think they are. Finale was sold to a fitness software company that seems to have little interest in music software. From this point on, I think Finale users can mostly hope for updates that keep the software running, with maybe a little something added in from time to time. At this point, Finale's supporting code is antique. I think they'd have to really start from the beginning and rebuild from the ground up to be anything like Dorico, which was built for modern processors and operating systems. It really seems to me that Yamaha/Steinberg has made the decision that they're going to be king of the hill when it comes to notations software, and they are making sure their development team is well funded. Being owned by Avid, Sibelius is also in a questionable situation.

[@TimCorpus]

It's crazy to me how far Finale fell after really having some innovative stuff for a while. Right now my irritations with Dorico are that it runs a little slow on my system, but also dealing with text frames is so difficult. They have to fix that.

[@TheBinaryWolf]

Is Dorico stable? I started with Finale 2011, and upgraded several times. The crashes are less frequent but still too many. If I edit a score more than a couple of times, it is like opening Pandora's box: a myriad of issues surface.

[@LeeBlaske]

@@TheBinaryWolf Dorico is extremely stable. It's well-written, modern code, and the Dorico team is really on top of things.

[@shubus]

Welcome to the Dorico club,Tim. I abandoned Finale & Sibelius for Dorico and it's no looking back....I hope.

[@TimCorpus]

It's been a mostly good experience. I haven't yet moved up to version 5, have you?

[@shubus]

@@TimCorpus Yes, I'm on Ver 5 and no new glitches. Haven't used any of the new features yet but probably will.

[@TheBinaryWolf]

Would saving a score created in Finale as an XML file be possible to open in Dorico, so that one could transfer score from one program to the other?

[@TimCorpus]

@@TheBinaryWolf yes that works. 👍

[@TheBinaryWolf]

@@TimCorpus So you have been able to convert .musx files to the format Dorico used, via xml. Great! But does the notation, articulations and expressions get wildy scattered? I spent months editing my scores when upgrading from Finale 2012c to v26.3, and would not want to undertake such a laborious rask again. Did you have to do a lot of clean up?

[@third.archer]

Finale user since 2011. For all its faults, I loved Finale's interface and made it work in every scenario. I decided this month to move to Dorico. It's a bumpy transition but I've got faith in Dorico. I appreciate your note about keybinds - I was tempted to just change to what Finale does (lol) but you're right - better to get used to the new method, and only change things when reasonable. I'll need to teach students Dorico one day, so I'd better figure out how everyone does it. Hard to undo 13+ years of reflexes but I'll get there.

[@pablovillegasabc]

After Finale news today this video will go viral soon!!

[@TimCorpus]

More videos coming this week!

[@TheBinaryWolf]

I think the quickest way to determine which program is superior is to visit the support forums. Who would seek help if the software were stable and user-friendly? I have written a 500 page step guide to workarounds for Finale, for reference to avoid relearning when confronted with a issue in the future. I can honestly say that I spend more time contending with Finale's instability, consistent in all versions since 2011, than writing music. Finale is the flakiest program I have ever used: it loathes editing. But I persist because the idea of learning another program is overwhelming, especially since people post similar bugs at the forums of other notation programs. Is Dorico stable, or at least less bug-ridden than Finale?

[@TimCorpus]

😢 I feel like 2014.5 was the best version of Finale I had. After that it was a steep downhill for me. I totally get the feeling of being overwhelmed. Dorico has taken a little time, but their forums have been pretty helpful. I'm excited that they've been updating it very consistently and their team is involved in the forums. It's not perfect. There are some things that I think are completely stupid, but my day-to-day experience composing is better.

[@Evanpianomaster]

Inb4 this video blows up

[@adriendecroy7254]

Would love to know what you think about Dorico now after another year, and maybe updated to 5.

[@organopleno2000]

I'm a Finale user since ... hum 1999... The nearly 50 big volumes of the OrganScore Edition have been produced with Finale. I was happy to learn that Finale should be available for a couple of years depending on future OS compatiblilties. I bought Dorico yesterday, but I suspect I will never become an expert at the same level as with Finale for engraving. Hope that new thrilling features will compensate (?).... I also hoped some import function from Finale to Dorico : XML certainly won't make it. I'm stuck with several thousands finale files...

[@TimCorpus]

Check out the batch export function from Finale, that should at least help with preservation of the files. Also, Finale had some really archaic ways it had its interface and options. I think that once you get used to the Dorico settings, your composing process won't change too much. For me the change was in the engraving process - which was always painful in Finale no matter which version.

[@organopleno2000]

@@TimCorpus I've tried exporting to xml and import into Dorico. It works fine with notes but not the engraving details. I'll keep my FInale files and freeze them as pdfs anyway. Just one day I will not be able to correct them anyway. As for Dorico I have tried it straight away and engraved my first organ piece after (quite) a few hours... It's great. I'll do a comment about this first experience.

[@TimCorpus]

@@organopleno2000 Definitely a good idea to export to PDF. There are certainly some issues regarding XML export/import and the leaving out of relevant objects from the Finale .musx file. After the ASCMAC meeting a few days ago, it sounds like a lot of folks have run into that issue. I don't have high hopes that will ever be resolved.

[@Keeneydavidutube]

Thanks, Tim! Good to hear a journeyman's evaluation. Gonna pull the trigger on Dorico soon. I do vocal ensemble work, often need to place lyrics IN the staff lines. So need to either erase selected lines of the staff to pop a lyric there, or can Dorico make lyrics opaque, so it COVERS the staff lines? Finale has "masks" but there's issues, slow, & can't make 'em follow the lyric around if it's moved. Can Dorico do this? Help me, Obi Wan!! Dave K

[@TimCorpus]

My first thought is to use the paragraph styles to set font colors, I'm not 100% sure but there may be something to set background is white. Hopefully that works!

[@pinkopallo1605]

Hi, I saw that you can easily insert the Letters to be used for the concertation, but how do you put the big numbers instead of the letters? Thanks!

[@TimCorpus]

You can change them in Engraving Library I believe

[@lnkd70]

Doing the same thing, had been using Finale since 2003…

[@TimCorpus]

It was a big shift, but in pretty happy now!

[@organopleno2000]

Since my last comment 4 days ago, I have engraved my first organ piece with Dorico after 25 years using Finale. I mut say Dorico seems much much more powerfull than Finale, and also more rigorous. Many positioning operations are done automatically. Music input and graphics editing for engraving are seperate modes and that's quite a good idea. Many features rather obscure or tinkered in Finale are logically structured in Dorico. Dorico's interface is quite impressive at the beginning, but after a few hours you get the logic. I think I'll get used to it quicker than I thought !

[@TimCorpus]

Glad it's working well for you!

[@andyfirthclarinetvirtuoso]

A great video thanks. My beef with Dorico is that it keeps playing what I’ve already recorded when I’m trying to play something new. Is there a way to overwrite existing material without hearing it? Finale would just write over whatever I didn’t want and only play the new material, not both versions. It seems a bit silly to playback material that’s being written over. Any advice on this issue?

[@TimCorpus]

Oh sure, ya it functions a bit differently. I don't record in MIDI except step by step. I recommend checking out the forums regarding that issue. Sorry I can't be more helpful!

[@renealeman4566]

Awesome! Two very unrelated questions: 1) is that the tiger Megazord on the shelf?! 2)what is that screen thing behind you? LOL

[@TimCorpus]

😝 Sure is a Mighty Morphin Power Ranger Zord! And on the white desk is one of the sound absorption panels I built for this room. 6 in total around the room to help keep the acoustics in check.

[@JackZucker]

why not musescore????

[@TimCorpus]

I really liked what Steinberg was doing, which is why I went to Musescore. Additionally, as I work with publishers, other composers and companies, I have to work in programs that they also use, which are the big three.

[@justinandmaxgames5472]

Move the Finale project files you wish to convert (.musx and .mus) to a single folder. Launch Finale and close the Launch Window when it appears. Choose File > Export > Translate Folder to MusicXML. A Finder (Mac) or a File Explorer window (Windows) appears. Select the folder containing the Finale project files you want to convert and click OK (Windows) or Open (Mac). A dialog box appears reading This will overwrite existing MusicXML files with the same name as the Finale Files. Do you want to continue? Click Yes. A progress bar will appear showing the progress of the MusicXML exports. Once the files have completed, the progress bar will disappear and the new MusicXML files will be available in the folder you selected in Step 4.

[@amyjwebb7937]

I bought dorico and I am so frustrated!!!! I know I will figure it out, but I used to do things so quickly with Finale. I just hate knowing I have to learn something different after so many years. 😢

[@TimCorpus]

Sorry to hear that! I felt your pain. Hopefully the tutorials I put together will be helpful. Just remember you're not alone! There are a lot of former Finale folks on the same journey. I also commend the Steinberg forums. They're very active and supportive. Are there any specific blocks/frustrations you're running in to?

[@alfonsogama7427]

What is your oppinion about Musescore? Is a free software.

[@TimCorpus]

Free is awesome! I've been really impressed by their audio samples and the community seems to have fervent support. I haven't used it too vigorously, but it seems like there's a lot you can do with it for standard notation. However, from what I understand, there isn't as much ability to do MIDI learn for shortcuts. So with TouchOSC you may only be able to send MIDI Note_On messages.

[@darryldixon5794]

Will Dorico transpose upon input like Finale? In other words, I play sax and use a wind controller for note input. If I play my controller into the flute stave, will it automatically transpose to the flute key?

[@jamesleiter4222]

Started using Finale in 1992, I still have the original box with user manuals. Today's software comes with nothing.

[@TimCorpus]

While I totally understand the sentiment, I have found the digital manual from Steinberg really useful. The searchable nature of it has made it easier for me to work with.

[@stefanoterrazzo]

Only 2005? 1995 for me. The journey commences........

[@TimCorpus]

Hopefully the batch export helps.

[@stefanoterrazzo]

@@TimCorpus I've no intention of converting it all!

[@TimCorpus]

​@@stefanoterrazzoya as long as your computer keeps working Finale, it should still function the same. 👍

[@jitsukerr]

Argh. As a singer, please stop beaming to lyrics! It makes reading rhythms in music that is really black (ie. lots of flags on eighth/sixteenth/thirtysecond notes) so much harder, especially contemporary works that have lots of busy lyric underlays and nested tuplets to contend with! I think it's a UK/US difference (and UK/Continent), but in the UK we're moving to the usual beam grouping for vocal lines as standard. Completely in sync with you re Dorico vs. Finale, though. Every pain point you mentioned produced a grimace of recognition 🙂

[@TimCorpus]

😂 I feel bad bashing Finale. Twas my first love...🥰 I haven't messed with lyrics yet in Dorico, but I'm hopeful that it will be a better experience than in Finale.

[@ThomasLock-n2r]

This singer likes beamed eighths

[@classicalteacher]

You noob. I started with Finale in 97. I still have my composition homework on 3.5 disks. I'm glad I can't listen to them. I just downloaded Dorico. I'm overwhelmed with the thought of relearning a new workflow. I may just continue with Finale until the death of my desktop.