Computer Science vs Engineering from a guy doing BOTH

[@fablearchitect7645]

IMO Control engineering is one of the more underrated specialisations in electrical engineering which makes power look like a cake walk in terms of mathematics. AC Power is mostly about steady state RMS analysis which is just complex numbers while control engineering has to deal with Laplace transforms and non linear ODEs. The old grid hardware such as transformers and generators are being replaced with the newer switching converters and inverters that requires power electronic control which combines both fields for an extra headache dose. Control engineering also exists in fields outside of EE such as mechatronics and aviation like with robot control and flight control. Therefore I think it is the best major for new graduates due to the rise of automation. This coming from someone who majored in power systems currently working in the power electronic control industry designing inverters and switched mode power supplies.

[@ravenecho2410]

I wasnt interesting in webdev until i realized that web is just I/O from an available server

[@ravenecho2410]

Im in ML/DS

[@hoff._world]

the lower components of webdev would be of interest to me, like you say for instance designing and building a webserver or optimising a database engine. When I say webdev I mean more like making APIs and writing JS :P

[@ravenecho2410]

@@hoff._world yeah i feels, and agree.... but being ablw to provide like computation universally accessible - kinda based 🙂 There is some value to servers and web protocols and apis, but lord zeus thunderbolt me if i ever get on button edge design 😂

[@chad-ed2vn]

post more, we already miss u

[@hoff._world]

dont worry chief it's coming just been unimaginably busy lately :)

[@mblenczewski]

I wish I had this video when I was choosing my uni course, it would have probably pushed me to actually pick electronic engineering over comp sci. Also wish combined courses were more available / more promoted. I think the broad split between discrete maths in comp sci (everything is based on boolean logic, and how higher level maths maps to boolean logic) and continuous maths (everything to do with power is an antenna [at high enough switching rates] and now you get to analyse fields until the end of time) is correct. I wonder how that changes with more specialised fields of conp sci though? Most "comp sci" courses are actually software engineering courses with a tiny amount of theory and analysis thrown in for appearances sake, but some of the more formal verification and proof work (I am specifically thinking floating point / arbitrary system formal verification) might be closer to what actual "computer science" would be (in my eyes at least). Visualising the skills you need is an excellent suggestion. I wish I had done that before uni to help guide my module choice. I worry that "not knowing what you don't know" could lead to underestimation of how broad one should pick their modules. Knowing more is pretty much always better imo (you are never going to make worse choices by knowing more), but then going too wide can lead to burnout or wasting time (why should I know domain-specific knowledge for a domain I never plan on going into; as you alluded to). My only thought here is that increased visibility of job requirements might help, and that means more people talking about what they do day-to-day. Its just a shame that this means more content to go through (which can be a roadblock). Good job overall! Do you have some pointers towards good resources learning some of the circuit analysis you mention? I've been trying to teach myself this, and very loosely understand some of the physical laws and what certain components "do", but struggle at seeing a circuit diagram and intuitively understanding why its made the way it is made. Are there any reaources you found useful here? No worries if nothing comes to mind! :)

[@hoff._world]

yeah agreed about computer science at this point, it seems to me that most people do "computer science" to get into some field of software engineering like web dev. At least at my university there is an actual software engineering degree so they do actually do a reasonable separation between the two. It is what it is about past choices. I think it's a pretty big ask to say to an 18 year old "so my lad what do you want to do for the next 4 years and the rest of your life" and I don't think you can be too hard on yourself for not making the "best choice" when you have the benefit of hindsight. It's a tough line to walk. in terms of learning circuit analysis you can start from the ground up. The most basic things to know are of course ohm's law, kirchoff's current and voltage laws, voltage divider circuits and then using KCL and KVL for nodal and mesh analysis respectively. There's also thevenin and norton equivalent circuits and the principle of superposition. It's a lot of content but if you can get through it you'll have a good base.

[@konstantinrebrov675]

Have you ever read the book "Computer Systems a Programmer's Perspective"? I think you'll enjoy it.

[@Nic4Las]

So I'm pretty happy with what I did. I studied in Germany at a relatively small technical university. The literal translation of my course was engendering computer science. Because there where only like 20 people that started the corse we shared basically all corses with eather the compsci students or the electrical/electronics engeneers during the first 2.5 years. After that we could basically choose what courses we wanted to visit from a list of like 150 courses from basically all engendering and compsci faculties. So in the end I just chose whatever seemed interesting. The first two years where really rough because I had to do basically double the exams of a normal compsci or engendering student but that payed of HUGLY in the later years and the masters studies because at that point I basically got to studie whatever interested me. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that if there is a choice to do both simultaneously, you are interested in parts of both and you are OK with suffering for a few years go for it. Studieng in such a wide range of subjects was the best choice I ever made.

[@hoff._world]

100% agree with you, that's the position I was in for the last couple of years doing this dual-degree. You get loaded with jumbled up subjects that seem like they don't relate to each other at all but in the last few years you can really see it come together, and you get the best of both worlds.

[@Leon-kt8ru]

Nice that I bothered to check the channel since I almost missed the video! I will be starting my degree in electrical engineering coupled with comp-sci classes, so it's encouraging to see that you also chose to go down a similar path. been a fan of your Linux videos after getting more into it after getting into cyber-security. decided to go down the college degree after getting rejected from Fullstack / Development Jr roles. keep up the good work!

[@JoelPonders]

yo wtf are you me? I feel so identified by this video. In my case, I wanted to do cs+computer but didn't get good enough grades for that. So I went for computer engineering only for the exact same reasons you like CE. Nice to have found a channel like yours!

[@hoff._world]

guys GUYS... I think... I think he might be literally me

[@yesjo1456]

I'm studying embedded software development. We get some computer engineering stuff, some electrical engineering stuff, some maths, but mostly programming and how to work with microcontrollers. I feel like I've made two errors when choosing what degree I wanted to study. So for one, I am really interested in programming the microcontrollers itself. This is not something I learn at my college degree. Second, I am really bad at dealing with non-linear learning, for example programming and maths. These are subjects where you can get stuck for hours on the same question or a bug and that is really demotivating for me. edit: I am learning how to deal with this, but this degree literally made me confront my past because of how difficult I've found it to be. No need to get into that, but I thought I'd clear this up. Had I known that I found non-linear learning so difficult, I might have chosen to take two gap years to focus on my mental health. All that said, based on my background and my surroundings, I'd say I did fairly well choosing embedded software development. Programming is still fun and so are the things I'm learning about. I have my regrets as I'm 23 right now and it does feel like I've made a mistake, but when I get a job for a few years I should be able to do a uni degree in computer engineering on the side.

[@hoff._world]

It's interesting you didn't do any microcontrollers at all in your degree, even the people doing regular electrical engineering over here have to do courses involving them. I guess it just goes to show how different parts of the world are different. I can definitely understand your frustrations with non-linear learning, it can definitely be demotivating and incredibly frustrating at times. There's a reason people in our industry suffer from burnout at a pretty high rate so don't be so hard on yourself and take it easy. I actually made a video where I talked all about imposter syndrome and burnout so I do know where you're coming from. If you already get a job and you have a degree it might not be worth doing another uni degree on the side, just play it by ear because I've seen a lot of people do their degree and as long as it's in a semi-related field they can then use their job experience to 'force a specialisation' if you kind of get what I mean.

[@KiriKiriKiki]

Computer Science, has front end, back end programming and then electronic programming. Its a whole lot. But physics at its core is a theoretical science, Computer Science an applied science. I got into university with full intention to study information engineering (fancy wrapping for comp sci) but in the first semester, got really got modules like Back end development but then really scary intimidating things that I had no interest/was in no way mentally capable of grasping (moving to new country, finding housing, doing everything yourself) . So I switched my degree to Agriculture and now make apps as a hobby :)

[@hoff._world]

I'm pretty sure that's a popular meme, the one of the person getting burnt out of engineering/compsci and then just going and being a farmer. Sounds like a much more chill life :)

[@RiderOfSun]

I studied electronic engineering, focusing on computer science. I really loved computer architecture, programming and computer systems. Also i understood that i was really good with electronics circuits in general. Now, i want to understand more software and create good stuff with it

[@hoff._world]

looks like we are quite similar :) its nice going full circle with the industry hey

[@fireflyslight8155]

I honestly wasn't sure what I wanted to do going into school. People in my life sort of expected me to go into computer science because I was naturally "techy" as a kid, but I understood that I did not really understand anything about coding or computers outside of user-facing components. In highschool I'd never touched a terminal, never written python, etc. Those were hobbies I developed in college. I ended up going in for biochemistry because chemistry was the only class I ever got a C in (otherwise was an A and B student) and I wanted to challenge myself since school was never particularly difficult for me. Not the smartest choice I ever made, but I sure do feel challenged. My level of chemistry understanding hasn't really changed much though even as my knowledge grew, I'm now a B/C student in college. I regret my choices a little bit, but I'm so close to being finished now I feel like there's not much I can do.

[@hoff._world]

a curious choice but I think very fair. For me to be honest if I'd just done compsci or software engineering I would have breezed thru it, so I definitely understand the want for a challenge. It is what it is about regrets. You can think about it, or you can not, but as you say you might as well at least finish it before you make ur next move. It can't be a negative on your resume for whatever you decide to do.

[@ultravioletiris6241]

Cybersecurity is a major within Computer Science? Here it’s considered part of IT. Barely any overlap between Cybersecurity and Computer Science at my university other than networking and python.

[@hoff._world]

it focuses a lot on the cryptography side of things, rather than the stuff you'd associate with it in IT. we did do a pentesting course tho

[@scientiac]

wish I had the option to pick and choose the subjects, it wasn't an option so, Computer Engineering is where I am at

[@hoff._world]

hmm maybe I let on more explicit choice than I meant, when I chose to do the dual a lot of the courses I weren't interested in were dropped from my mandatory list, which was more what I meant. There were some I could explicitly pick and choose tho.

[@scientiac]

@@hoff._world yes, while I am studying computer engineering, I also have to study Electric Machines, and Basic Electrical Engineering and all, which I am not quite a fan of. I was surprised by the possibility that I could have gotten the subjects like compiler design and cyber security if I had choosen computer science+ engineering whilst not needing to study electrical engineering subjects in my computer engineering course. Well, I am already 2 years in, on my 4 years computer course, so happy is all I can be now.

[@hoff._world]

it is what it is my guy and we all look back and think "what if". The thing is with a full program like that as long as you can get through it you can easily specialise after, so you won't have to do it forever. Keep it up chief

[@gregforgotmylastname2905]

When I was studying in highschool, I was mainly interested in natural sciences (physics, chemistry). Eventually I became interested in programming and learning about how computers work. When I was choosing a program for university, I was considering between an engineering, IT and a physics degree. There weren't many universities around my area that offered physics degrees plus I wasn't entirely sure what types of jobs were even available for people with such a degree these days. Regarding IT, I felt like I would have to ditch my interests in natural sciences to pursue an IT/CS degree. I ended up choosing electrical engineering as I felt that it contained all the fields that I was interested in. Computer hardware was one of my interests too and I thought that maybe one day I would get a chance to work on computers by pursuing a degree in electrical. Actually, topics relating to electricity were one of the most difficult ones for me during highschool physics classes. I was also doing poorly in mathematics. There definitely were a lot of concepts in electrical engineering (and engineering in general) that felt foreign to me, but also a lot of things that I was very familiar with. Maybe it's this knowledge gap that made me intrigued by electrical engineering. Currently studying in my second year.

[@hoff._world]

keep it up bro, you're right in that if you do a broad degree like just electrical engineering you can easily specialise later it then becomes more about what work experience you can get on your resume.

[@llawliettian1600]

Great content! Engineering is interesting to me as a subject to learn but not for work. Dealing with both hardware and software sounds quite laborious.

[@hoff._world]

u definitely gotta love it. thanks for the comment!

[@craze5362]

yo im currently completing my first year as my cs major. i just started learning how to code fall 2023 and currently taking a data structures class using C. i enjoy C a lot and i want to learn more about lower level programming as a whole but i also like the problem solving skills/ the higher concepts of cs as well. maybe ill look into taking more embedded systems stuff or even looking into double majoring as a cs and CE. as of now i really have no interest in the web dev side(unless video game development is also web dev) but i wanted to know more about how computers work. nice video.

[@raven-vr5yz]

hey man, you're literally living my dream. I feel exactly the same way as you. I'd love to study cs with cybersecurity major + engineering but there's a catch. I feel like in my country, there isn't really an option to do so. There are few good IT colleges that focus on computer science and computer engineering, but there's no electrical engineering. + I feel like if I chose the cs and computer engineering, I couldn't choose cybersecurity as my major, because my whole country is based around C# web development... What would you recommend? I thought about going abroad to study, but that would only make everything more complicated...

[@MaxTheFireCat]

Your whole country is based on C# web dev? lol If youre good with self-studying Id recommend doing the cs degree and studying cybersec on the side. Its a very rapidly changing field and universities are slow adjusters, sites like TryHackMe and HackTheBox will teach you the latest of real attacks and methods used in the industry today for free

[@tiranito2834]

​@@MaxTheFireCat I can bet I'm 99% sure what country OP lives in... which is really sad tbh. My country is currently also in a similar situation, everything seems to be java and webservers these days. It feels like each country has only universities that specialise on a single language and mostly some web based technology and ignore everything else, leading to this epidemic of the modern era of mediocre programmers who don't understand how computers actually work. I don't want to say that we're witnessing the collapse of civilization, but... I'm gonna say that we're witnessing the collapse of civilization.

[@reihanboo]

time to hunt international scholarships my man. come back and become the ministry of tech or something

[@raven-vr5yz]

@@MaxTheFireCat yep, 90% of our IT high schools teach you only c# (I mean, they're trying to teach you, the teachers are terrible). Colleges are limited and after you graduate the only thing you now is how to make web applications in .NET. I already know almost everything uni can teach you anyway, the only reason why I do university is for a degree and because in my country it is unfortunately more important than knowledge

[@hoff._world]

there's a lot to be said about the strategy of picking a more general degree (so think regular CS or computer engineering) and then showing your want to specialise through personal projects on your resume or the work experience you do. For example if you just do CS or computer engineering and you have some reverse engineering or as @MaxTheFireCat said hackthebox experience you can use that to show that you want to specialise. It is true that you'd have to do a wider variety of subjects in your degree program which is annoying but it might be the best option you have. You can also do certifications (OSCP comes to mind for cybersecurity) which you can also put on your resume to specialise.

[@harrythezomby]

Wow you're pretty good at surfing while talking lol. I'm also lookng at doing both of them later on. What subjects did you do during high school? The two relevant ones I'm doing are physics and software development for VCE (altho software dev is pretty bs)

[@hoff._world]

my high school subjects were English, Mathematics B (this might only make sense to australians), Physics, Chemistry, Philosophy and IPT (programming/databases, also pretty BS lmao)

[@harrythezomby]

@@hoff._world What state are you from? Here in Vic our maths subjects are general, methods, and specialist (from easiest to hardest). I guess mathematics b must be in the middle?

[@hoff._world]

wahahaha I was on the OP system in queensland so you're right they did change it to methods and specialist. Yes Maths B is methods equiv, but at uni I had to do a maths c/specialists catchup course.

[@thesketchspace]

When I was in college, I studied computer science. I grew up reading Commodore 64 magazines and practicing QBASIC so I wanted to learn more. Even though I did learn programming in Java, I also had classes I didn't find valuable like networking and computer architecture. Now that I'm older I can study subjects in depth rather than studying in breadth like with a college curriculum. While college is a good time to pick a general field, it's more important to learn how you as a person learn. Technology constantly evolves and you have to keep learning to keep up.

[@hoff._world]

that's fair, and everyone is different. for example I wouldn't consider Java more valuable than networking/comp arch but that's for the field I want to go into personally. You're right about it all, once there's no pressure of 'getting a degree' you can study only what interests you.

[@AbyssalArray]

Huh, my degree (electrical and electronics engineering / mechatronics equivalent) covers roughly most of the things you covered here.

[@KiriKiriKiki]

yea. more engineering degrees at their core, are the same.

[@hoff._world]

yeah I have a few mates in mechatronics there is a bit of overlap, though we do more embedded stuff and they do more mech subjects (e.g. I didnt have to do thermodynamics)

[@reihanboo]

ECE is basically EE with a bit of computer hardware in it which is what EE is at the end of the day. if you have to choose between ECE or EE, I would go with EE because it has a broader range of subject and you can be put in any fields that has moving electrons

[@reihanboo]

also CS is Software Engineering for femboys

[@hoff._world]

well see that's precisely the reason I decided NOT to do straight EE. like I said in the video I'm not interested in or pretend to be any good at power engineering, and by doing CE I removed those from my curriculum which is actually what I wanted

[@hoff._world]

guess im a femboy :P

[@tess007]

My pookie wookie is so smart and talented qwp ❤❤

[@hoff._world]

u r quickly becoming the backbone of this channels lore... luv ur work 😘😽

[@aa898246]

computer engineering seems like a perfect degree but damn the extra time it takes is rough

[@reihanboo]

it sounds perfect but it's EE without the industry part don't be fooled

[@hoff._world]

tbh I'd say it is perfect but it depends on you. @reihanboo does have a point that if you aren't really sure what to do it is a specialisation which can limit you but that being said if you do know what you explicitly want and dont want I've found it to be real nice

[@aa898246]

@@reihanboo yeah i wish i did EE + cs or something

[@aa898246]

@@hoff._world this is vague since i dont know much but the general thing i want to get good at is reverse engineering software to do cool stuff with it. or like grab a piece of hardware that has locked down functionality and figuring out how it works and then adding features to it myself

[@aa898246]

basically i wanna grab cool stuff that i use/find and force it to be open sourced so i can make it better for me (gunboat diplomacy but for computers)

[@kuiper03]

I've been doing the exact thing as you lol. Doing a CS degree specializing in cyber and also doing a EE degree specializing in RF communications.

[@hoff._world]

you'll be one hell of an iot/comms engineer bro god damn keep at it 👑

[@kuiper03]

@@hoff._world Appreciate it! Any update on the discord server btw?

[@hoff._world]

@kuiper03 hrrrrr I do want to but I'm hesitant just cause I know I can't promise activity and there's no shot I'd have time to moderate

[@Blue-bb9ro]

thank you for the advice!

[@hoff._world]

dont sweat it chief

[@firesnake6311]

Wow, now I watched the whole video, i thought that I'm the only one who would do the same you did, now feel better, and still I don't understand why people who wanna be a web dev choose the CE,

[@hoff._world]

completely agree my man you'd never catch me writing JS 😩

[@firesnake6311]

@@hoff._world I used to be a die hard JS fan and web dev,but ever since I moved to C and lower level I don't hate myself anymore, at least not as much as when I did with JS and web development

[@0xhamody]

Bro, do you have a discord

[@scarysticks66]

computer science in your country has physics as a subject?

[@hoff._world]

nah that's for my electrical and computer engineering

[@scarysticks66]

@@hoff._world thats interesting. bc here in argentina we got sort an engineering more like computer science than computer engineering itself.

[@hoff._world]

yeah that's wild, I guess it really depends on where you go. Does your school offer computer science at all then?

[@scarysticks66]

@@hoff._world the "computer science" itself its not very common in unis here. just a few have it. but the most common it degree here is "ingeniería informática". that also have the same degree but without the engineering itself. it means 1 less year, less math and physics. i think thats the most looklike cs. its not the same but its Pretty similar

[@thirtysixnanoseconds1086]

i studied engineering mathematics - you can do anything with that degree and all the maths you learn is applicable to well .... anything

[@hoff._world]

that's fair, if only I was good at maths :D