Confronting the Man at War with Twitch

[@greatmatt301]

I saw the title of the video and knew IMMEDIATELY it would be Dan XD

[@temimitsu]

YEPPPP LMAOAOA

[@nwgverified]

Same

[@himself6363]

LAWL!!!

[@Explicitnice]

Yes

[@lu8897]

hes our proud jew soldier

[@spicytm_]

Slasher running away when confronted was so predictable for that weasel.

[@Azuciea]

"doc is done and not just on twitch" doc still streaming to 30k+ concurrent viewers on youtube. "Rumble declines doc streaming contract" Rumble ceo comes out and says that never happened.

[@Birdie_1991]

of course devin has a good talk after i left when he added slasher. if i would've known id stay longer during the stream but that dude is a farmer and talks more like a viewer who doesn't know anything than an insider. Now this guy is way better loving the quick to the point back and forth talk with great insights.

[@snickle1980]

Better loving. True.

[@Mike23443]

​@@snickle1980 better at loving your mom

[@olaf-4171]

This video made me realize even more it's insane that streamers have to focus on TikTok for discoverability, how does Twitch not have this themselves? Guess all passiontate Twitch people left long ago and the clueless ones are now running the show...

[@kenneth_romero]

you gotta remember that tik tok is the lowest common denominator of content. easy to install and start scrolling, you don't have to think about people you follow or anything. purely algorithmic based. twitch for the longest felt like cable, to which you would have to surf different channels to see what you liked. and usually you'd stay to the handful of the ones you found and stick to that. not to mention people become invested in the streamer, whereas tik tok users only care about the content.

[@ironiclee9751]

They just haven't ever considered it to be a problem worth solving, to them it's probably better to have the top 0.1% of twitch streamers get all the viewers than to spend time and money getting viewers to smaller streamers. Someone brought up a good point that twitch clips could have been something like what tiktok is long before tiktok was a thing. We've had clips for like a decade now and for a long time those clips would only get views if they ended up on youtube or reddit, twitch had no good way to get people to watch clips on their website and they still don't have that.

[@SterlingSanders]

Proud of you for upgrading from notes to obsidian!

[@x3naurus]

Tried it for the first time a couple days ago. Beautiful, beautiful app.

[@secretzpt176]

Well he's technically just using excalidraw here, which can be used independant of Obsidian.

[@Q-nr2dg]

Yeah, that's not obsidian

[@secretzpt176]

@@Q-nr2dg To be specific it's obsidian but using the excalidraw plugin.

[@SterlingSanders]

@@secretzpt176 sure, but I suggested he try obsidian weeks ago so that he could make his notes consistently public and shareable. So it’s more about that than the specific plugin he’s using for noting a conversation.

[@jackdaniel3135]

With all the problems of twitch laid out like this, it really does feel like they only exist because they were one of the first.

[@Gronmin]

I disagree on the engineer as a CEO it doesn't always work out, but look at AMD they put an engineer as the CEO and that company started to move fast. They've gone from never over taking Intel on anything to maybe doing it on everything within this decade.

[@justinking6690]

Not every engineer is the same person. Though this is a common line of thought.

[@aj00]

Dan wildin thinking Twitch would set up a Twitch court room 💀

[@mikemikel1629]

They would literally be paid to do it

[@draken5379]

The Twitter stuff still blows my mind. Considering like discussed here, Twitter pretty much didnt change for over a decade, what exactly where the software engineers DOING there ? Its really wild to think about.

[@quanchi371]

man PLEASE go on anything else

[@CashewNut-g9j]

Or bridges

[@hockeybuzz555]

The issue with banning all political content or political streamers and returning to just gaming is that it falsely assumes that gamers are not political or don't say political things. If gamers did just play games and didn't say controversial things then banning only political streamers might make sense. The issue is streamers "just playing games" are just as, if not more, likely to say sexist, racist, and other advertiser unfriendly things.

[@megamonmon]

If you have rules and the streamer breaks them, regardless of what category of streamet they are, they should get banned. Its very simple.

[@warrenquviart388]

it's not about the culture. The main problem is that all these political slanted content becomes a brand risk, leading to a death spiral where ALL channels cannot get funded via ads since it's difficult to police. Twitch doesnt have the tech built nor have they dedicated any resources to making it so.

[@doryfishie2]

If you ban all political content, it assumes that all streamers, not only political streamers, will treat politics as banned content from now on. The premise itself prevents your issue from even occurring. If political content is banned, then a gamer bringing up political content would simply be banned. You're trying to create an issue that wouldn't even be an issue. You thinking gamers can't stop themselves from being political is like saying people can't possibly stop themselves from saying the N word on stream. No one needs you to change your whole personality to show up to work, just don't show it at work. It's such a basic concept.

[@ASSEMBLOTRON]

Also what about political video games? What if you want to discuss on stream the politics inside a game/proposed by the game?

[@warrenquviart388]

guys, Devin already made a comment on his previous video that his hot take is to ban all political streams. He explained his thoughts there, and it's precisely this grey area that needs to be ripped apart so that twitch can stably monetize, since all the political stuff is killing ad revenue for the rest of the gaming streamers

[@JustSomeGuy009]

Skype Business was used all over the place in companies until they rolled it into Teams. While I've never liked either solution EVER, you can't deny that it's massively popular in business.

[@TheAmazingGlenn]

i know this is clipped from a livestream but i would've apreciated some additional context at the start of the video.

[@CarlosXPhone]

31:22 I'm here, and I agree with almost EVERYTHING. Including the hiring of a startup guy. Someone who's HUNGRY.

[@JustPaden]

I feel like KZbin gave way too much leverage to advertisers during the adpocalypse. It was the only game in town at that point for online video. They were always going to come back.

[@sevilnatas]

I totally agree. What they should have done is a public education campaign to educate advertisers and the public that the ADs on KZbin are not related to the content, it is related to the viewer. If you are seeing racist videos, that says something about you and what the algorithm has determined you like, as opposed to the video you are currently watching.

[@muted_limbo]

MACRO DAN, FULL JAPAN, JIGACHAD MAN

[@mwradke]

Everything you guys have said is exactly what I've been ranting about for years. Dan is inept. I've been screaming to see real changes be made. I swear that twitch is purposefully being ran into the ground.

[@Hemestal]

I always had my reserves with Dan because he is so cringe and is always looking for validation from the platform's content creators but after they released the knock feature I finally realized that Twitch is run by complete idiots.

[@AIRacing]

I honestly, genuinely believe I could automate their moderation with AI by myself, and it would work better than what they have now

[@hakonchr16]

Just have everything decided by a coinflip and it would work better. You can even tweek the percentages if you want to get fancy with it

[@S7R0UD]

editor working overtime on this video 😂

[@Rondogz]

🤣

[@Dan1elAnthony]

Is there a full VOD of the conversation anywhere?

[@1NameGoesHere]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/raXUkpJmbNSqr7s

[@crazymonk27]

Slasher is a liar and we know it. Also he covered the Dr disrespect stuff up for years while he knew the details that got doc canceled the whole time.

[@Sploopin]

Man a podcast with Devin and Dan would be soooooooooooooooooooo good

[@GeninGeo]

I always wondered if Dan and Devin talk to each other.

[@sunderkeenin]

I think the short of it is just that extremist political content is extremist political content. I don't care if we're talking Hasan or Milo. I wouldn't want my ads on either if I were an otherwise largely normal company without extremely public corporate political stances as part of my corporate identity, and if I did have that I would need effective targeting anyway. Extremist political content is also extremist political content in that it targets a small yet disproportionately loud and risky audience, meaning that I'd rather not deal with that unless I had to.

[@jaylenjackson69]

I stopped watching Twitch after they started rewarding streamers based on a certain race or group they associate with. They then started these Twitch Guild's Black, Latin, Women's and Pride. This individual was right about how Twitch tends to sway a certain way. I agree with Nash politics should be taken off the platform. I feel as a black man that Twitch honestly believes Black streamers can't do it on their own and need special treatment without putting in the work. Why should steamers be rewarded or given special advantage based on color or group and not based on merit. You see that in a majority of these streamers on Twitch even from Arts and Crafts streamers to the many great music performers.

[@Hemestal]

Because we're being used as a checkbox that they have to fill out for tax benefits. That's why it feels so hamfisted and patronizing. You'd believe that fairness in treatment would be more than enough but they have to parade us around to show to the proper institutions and megabanks that they are indeed very "good people".

[@ClayBenTreeceJr.]

I'll just say it like this Twitch their reputation is permanently damaged there is no recovery from this or I would suggest that Amazon shut down Twitch and just completely shut the platform down

[@Mike23443]

DAN V DAN

[@dylives7667]

Hey, whatever to further accelerate Twitch' either demise or change of management.

[@GrogGurgler]

The Lion of Zion will bite out Dan Clancy's throat

[@ToriksLV]

Thank you for the epic deep dive. Man i hope your voice and connections reach the dedision makers in amazon. Dans ideas wereso great about donations etc. really hope this comes true one day. Dan is goat.

[@gamingguru01]

> cares about something offending him > calls Brazilian people spanish twice you can really tell this guy just looked at the top following/subcriber list and said 'yup, these names look hispanic enough' classic compartmentalization of south america moment

[@AccessAccess]

What may be a faulty assumption is that Amazon actually wants to "save" twitch. They may have put him in charge (and be leaving him in charge) to hasten it's demise. In essence they already got what they wanted from twitch and have no idea what else to do with it. It sounds like a waste but they may have already tried to find buyers for twitch and failed, and no executive has the guts to pull the plug on twitch outright.

[@uszpdoz]

Its so dumb how whole bunch of dumb people like ludwig strawman devin position when its apparent devin not even close implying twitch as a platform will be gone anytime soon. From this video devin and dan agreed with a couple of most like scenario that amazon gonna change the twitch management again or amazon help and let twitch took the recent hit for another year or dan clancy stepping down.

[@vikking3647]

Does anyone know what/how Devin is using that flowchart in Obsidian? is it an extension?

[@ThePodmeister]

the extension is called excalibur (logo is a 🗡️ stuck into the obsidian rock) the chart feature is excali-draw

[@vikking3647]

@@ThePodmeister thank you

[@DriftingSands]

Can someone explain what is happening on twitch? I don't follow twitch & it's happenings at all, so I feel like I'm missing a giant piece of the puzzle. What lead up to this? What was the catalyst to this twitch version of the ad-pocalypse?

[@GrogGurgler]

It began with the ban of Asmongold wich showed twitches double standards regarding bans, wich sparked outrage, but the real catalyst was the fact that during the last year it wasn't possible to create a twitch account if you're from Israel, that really pissed of Dan and turned him into the Lion of Zion

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

Twitch has been propping up streamers that have been saying stuff like Veterans deserve ptsd, having racial tier lists, playing terrorist propoganda videos, and it just came out that for an entire year they have secretly banned Israeli users from making accounts.

[@goodgriefgriff6076]

Nice shirt my dude. You should come back to Quarm sometime. Just an observative lurker~

[@RebeccaLoran]

It's almost as if we could have seen this happening 5 years ago!

[@TheeDanIslander]

Thanks Devin for the eye opening content

[@derf579111]

Give subs the ability to watch ads on-prompt...so many people would watch an ad if the creator is taking a bathroom break and they arent missing anything. It *should* be such a simple feature to just pop-up and say "wanna ad?". I'd click it every time if I knew my streamer would be getting more money and im not missing any content. Its literally a no-lose situation. If im an advertiser, youre gonna tell me that the most active users on youre site DONT GET ADS (because they will be subbed to the people they are watching)?? Solves that issue at least partially.

[@lucasLSD]

I don't see the issue, youtube red also does not serve ads but advertisers are all over youtube, I will not pay to see the ads, there's no chance in hell.

[@silvermushroom-gamifyevery6430]

I don't take issue with much of anything Dan said, but I'm compelled to say, making a platform 'your' site and deleting someone's platform aka their career over a nip slip or 'extreme political views', like everyone's targeting 7 year olds, are mutually exclusive ideas. In fact, you could even such a plan would be false advertising.

[@flexaunya]

what are your thoughts of twitch moving to demonitize more instead of bans? instead of a 1 week or 1 month ban twitch just handed out demontization? no adds for a month, they just keep pulling ads more often and eventually people will realize they aren't making anything for putting in the work of streaming for a month.

[@SOB-b2g]

I feel an issue with that is twitch is already struggling with financials and it costs to host broadcasts. If they can't milk ads from a stream than it's a net negative for both streamer & platform. Asmon's channel (zackrawrr) for example, they wanted to get partnered so they could monetize it then run ads galore to his roughly average 25k concurrent viewership. He even did the math on it live and it would cost the service upward of $8k per stream. It's unsustainable

[@inthepalemoonlight14]

Most of those changes you guys mentioned are so stupidly obvious, like you said, conspiracy level incompetence. Who the f is destroying Twitch on purpose?

[@kademan14]

W from Ape Nation

[@ClayBenTreeceJr.]

And I'm also going to say this I believe also that if you are streaming on Twitch you should also has a part of your partner or affiliate streamers must also be streaming on KZbin at the same time in order to keep their partnership and affiliate status on the platform

[@Maelus927]

DAN CANT GET IT UP

[@Dave-yc8bw]

inbred comment

[@o7juan]

SAJ

[@ktvlm3987]

funny watching devin go back on his previous videos about Elon and Twitter - we can go back and watch :)

[@sturenorth]

Mod team can definately handle political stuff. The problem is that the current reign of mods are being put in positions through friendship or already established baiases. Thats why D.C needs to step down and also, you clean out the whole top crust and then smoke the rest of the idiologs out and you start Anew.

[@grasstreefarmer]

Yeah Ok. We should all listen to the guy regularly calling anyone who doesn't support Israel a "self hating Jew". This is such a pathetic attempt to get Destiny unbanned and his 'enemies' removed.

[@thecooletompie]

Not sure about not having an engineer as ceo. Intel ruined itself, Boeing ruined itself. Yet amd came back with Lisa su, Jensen had been handeling nvidia forever.

[@coke2679]

Lisa Su hadn't worked as an actually engineer for years before switching to AMD.

[@SimoAtlas]

He actually suggested so many wanted features

[@overeasymode]

Ads are not the way to go. They need another model of making money.

[@SnapWireOnlyOne]

KZbin uses categories to rank for there ads......... if u upload over 50 videos in that one category you will get listed under that content .

[@crowseye4434]

What game he playing?

[@CarbonFanatic]

Everquest

[@crowseye4434]

@@CarbonFanatic thank you

[@driznardelunyar5199]

man, i miss Luclin. Ssra Temple was great

[@joaquin5028]

what twitch needs is more riveting everquest content and less just chatting

[@Shrekbob88]

i dig the EQ shirt!

[@SoMuchMass]

Dan thinks he is more important than he actually is.

[@Tabasa05]

I want Dan Saltman’s Twitch

[@fweewain]

Devin Nash on the next episode of Anything Else???

[@askers_]

Devin injecting himself into this lol.

[@MightyMigi]

i'm not going ti lie as a person from miami I hate it here and Filming sucks here nothing but flat lands =(

[@sevilnatas]

I am not clear what "extremist" content is making advertisers run away? Is it H3H3?

[@slavkomatt6387]

Can you upload the Slasher conversation?

[@zypexlelix480]

What is that software that he is using I want that for myself.

[@FlipsMG]

obsidian

[@luvaznsandrice]

Love the content devin

[@trxplem]

This is brilliant content

[@Dave-yc8bw]

its the classic - why is some 400 year old running a online content website? get the incompetent out of touch dinosaurs out

[@TheVideoNerd]

Devin, you together with Dan is WORKING!

[@ktvlm3987]

if this guy appears on another Devin stream, I will NOT be watching. what an insane person.

[@felix_xb]

Excalidraw, nice!

[@kkplx]

it's funny how the same jewish activists who cheered for various people getting deplatformed by unfair enforcement of rules are now clutching their pearls when it hits their side. let it all burn. Either everyone has free speech, or nobody has. I have no pity for any of the streamers or people who took offense involved.

[@rickyricardo2006]

No one had plead for the banning of frogan or hasan BEFORE they banned asmon for a cler misunderstanding of thoughts. Stop pandering to terror you freak.

[@EnjoyGengar]

That is how kick was started :P

[@ESPRESSOJOEx11]

Dan vs Dan, who wins?

[@JoshMc420]

Nice wallpaper

[@JLAShazam]

Slasher is suuuuuccch a worm lol

[@BarelySimilar]

We love dan

[@wiredvibe1678]

Dans crusade lol. Remind me why we are trying to save twitch?

[@dmnscks]

balls

[@lucasLSD]

24:10 now that's rich, Ed Zitron argued that google search went to shit because they replaced the engineer in charge with a marketing idiot, but you are both arguing the opposite. There's no perfect solution, he has to go because he did a bad job, engineers make the best products and you businessman come to ruin it after.

[@CarbonFanatic]

engineers make what their are told to.

[@sevilnatas]

Is Twitch a company or a division?

[@metaversebot98]

This is a strange variation of the word confronting. It's really more of a glazing, of you will

[@ameliaespo]

I have no idea how the world of streaming works or the business side. I just find the topic interesting as a viewer not as much on Twitch anymore. I used to watch a lot of DJ streams but got really tired and boring they started rambling about political issues save that for another day. What I found interesting they interviewed Dan Clancy about this DJ Program they have I think. The man was a total birdbrain when it came to specifics of the program.

[@MandoMTL]

The company literally survives off Amazon's teat. What do you expect? They have no incentive to succeed. It's the same thing with government corporations.

[@Krystalchan2009]

I personally don't think Dan is *bad* for twitch, but its also a case of being a blessing and a curse because he actually took the steps to learn how to stream on Twitch. Overall there have been a lot of good changes under his lead because he actively sits down and tries to use the site but this means you get features like knocking that no one seems to need. I think a better route is to have a new CEO for twitch but have him be a development lead instead.

[@SL_Salem]

Mark Cuban should buy Twitch, fix it up, then start livestreaming and just shit talk on Elon Musk for 2 hours a day.

[@audz_martinz]

The CEO of Twitch does seem kind of odd but hearing how ineffective he is is not good. I never got these political commentators on KZbin and on Twitch. They watch videos from legacy media and tell you what they think people give them money. This reminds me of presenting projects back in high school I tell them what its about but i didnt paid like these clowns. It is terrible when people have to depend on these political streamers from the right and left to basically tell them how they should think. This certainly a very strange world we live in.

[@Indulgence82]

I think this video had the greatest collection of terrible ideas I've heard for twitch. Dan was just spewing brainrot. I kept watching for the analysis which was fairly solid but the ideas... yikes

[@DaDa-rg6ts]

Dan is such a disingenuous fool, desperate to be cool 😂😂😂 He's trying to be like Destiny 😂😂😂😂🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[@retropyro]

I had the KZbin moderation system. It's broken. I had a video get hit for "Hate Speech" and what was shown was me saying "What the actual F***, that's BS". But YT is standing firm on it being "hate speech" 😂

[@doom2alien]

hes just mad cuz his name is also dan

[@Nikodokles]

Macro Dan

[@lordlynkz]

I will make a competitor to twiche. - latest follow first list (viral growth) -pin your top 8 (compete incentive) - clips feed with positive likes karma system (discoverability) - personal content curation on offline page that chat can watch. - open content review / ban process Adding* containment zones for rule benders I win

[@xXxShankersxXx]

turning twitch back into a pure gaming streaming site would kill it 100% , making it like youtube in terms of ToS wouldnt change anything since they all post content on youtube as is , which is just stream RIPs and they get ad rev so im not sure what this dude is going on about just seems like he doesnt like politics which is okay just simply dont watch it

[@MrMctastics]

The saddest part of the twitch community is its stupidity. You guys are actually dumber than MAGA

[@RKirby]

As an Amazon stock holder I say pull the plug on Twitch and quit wasting the electricity and $$$ to keep it online. We can do something else with the servers and actually make $$$.

[@colamity_5000]

If nothing comes of this Dan will have lost all his credibility

[@11164kloc]

💯💯💯💯

[@STUDIOBO]

bro wants to set up a “jury of peers” for twitch, such a goofball idea

[@Stew_Pid]

2:50 that’s hilarious. KZbin unbiased? Yeah no.

[@ProfessorEthical]

22:37 - Don't appreciate this guest dropping slurs as easily as he does. Content ruined by this guy who would be considered a brand risk.

[@omnifake3339]

👃👃👃👃👃

[@Yiazmat717]

this discussion shed a lot of light for me, so thank you for this video!