Connections Between the Valyrians & the White Walkers

This video deals with the points of similarities and connections between the Valyrians and the White Walkers (the Others) and contains some of my own ASoIaF (& GoT) theories on the matter.
Although this video is primarily book-focused, it is absolutely watchable for those who watch the show exclusively. So if you want to enrich your knowledge of the Valyrians, Valyria, the WW & the Land of Always Winter, this is the video for you!
Sources for this video (more coming):
The World of Ice & Fire
Alt-Shift-X video: • Others: what do we kno...
ASoIaF Wiki: awoiaf.westeros.org/
Outro song:
Let me (take you to Australia) by Muciojad / muciojad
Creative Commons - Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported- CC BY-SA 3.0
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Music provided by Audio Library • Let me (take you to Au...
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My Instagram: / charlieinwesteros
My Twitter: / westeroscharlie
My Tumblr: / charlieinwesteros

[@OuterRimPride]

I want to see a cold spider.

[@NetherPrime]

I prefer dead spiders.

[@Cannibal713]

Scott Glennon I prefer mortality challenged arachnid.

[@NetherPrime]

Cannibal713 Spiders aren't the only arachnids.

[@songbird7450]

Scott Glennon I don't.

[@jordanlu9152]

Scott Glennon put a spider in your freezer

[@JohnBainbridge0]

What if the Valyrians are hybrids? If one human king took a Walker as a bride, maybe that wasn't an isolated incident. And if Walkers used to be human, we could probably breed with them. Maybe the Valyrians are part Walker. It would explain their white hair and legendary beauty.

[@ocsjc13]

Y act like they were beautiful

[@tariizm1500]

@@ocsjc13 yep they were beatiful writer of books says this

[@siomhe8539]

Just noticed how much Dany coming out of the burning hut resembles the white walkers walking through the fires set around Bloodraven's cave...coincidence? Very interesting theory...

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Yes, you are right about that similarity!! Thank you :)

[@TheHumbleAv]

Charlie In Westeros how about the theory that the children of the Forest are actually in on this? they built the wall etc etc, so that men will forget about the WhiteWalkers and magic etc etc, so just like how man invaded Westeros and slaughtered the children of the Forest because they wernt equipped with dealing with man, man won't be equipped to deal with white Walkers...

[@Cytotron]

Immune to fire and ice.

[@Chetnik313]

Siomhe it's nothing new. aka Lady TheIronUnderneath, like 2 years ago

[@Chetnik313]

read about Yi-Ti and it's downfall if you are truly interested in finding the answers you seek.

[@kaisaimmonen5846]

I think Starks and the white walkers have more in common than we have led to understood...I think that we have not seen the last of Ned Stark 😀 -Kaisa

[@Colin-um5tz]

If they have something more than common then my theory about the night’s king who is a stark and the night’s queen who is a white walker making babies and after his fall one of those babies was raised as a stark’s and that’s stark met with a woman had babies and so on and so on so what I’m trying to say is Starks are half human half and half white walker but mostly human

[@Axischilled83]

Nice to see a video from you Charlie, looking forward to the return of the small council

[@cathefferan3106]

Nicely done video and you pack a lot of info into it. Thank you for sharing your talent and insights

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thank you so much for saying that Cat! Appreciate the nice comment :-)

[@corbitronify]

This is an awesome video! Great parallels :)

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thanks Corbin!! :-)

[@eliteviktor3]

Thank you for making this video, really awesome. Keep at it!

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thank you Viktor!! Happy you enjoy!! :-D

[@GrayArea]

this is dope!

[@nchantedone2073]

You made connections that didn't occur to me, great video! 👍

[@wanderingseth]

LOL I think I listened to this before Sidhe was re-recorded and I remember giggling... keep up the good work!

[@ryxn4074]

Great vid Charlie!

[@CharlieInWesteros]

thanks :-)

[@scarletb8274]

Very interesting comparison. At 5:05 when you showed Dany coming forth from the fire I was sure you were going to follow it with the White Walker walking towards Jon at Hardhome through the burning building. Thought provoking video. Thanks.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

hahah if I was smart I would have (aka should have) added that clip, you are right, it would have made a great image to show one after the other! Happy you enjoyed, thanks :-)

[@apollolancer78]

Thanks for the great insight info, your vids are amazing interesting as always. :)

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thank you Lord Blackfyre! Happy you still enjoy them :-)

[@karenjuhlke5821]

Great video ! Loved this

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thank you Karen!! :)

[@funkmastanicky3885]

I need a 1v1 between the Night King and Jon...fucking need it. for like 15 mins straight.

[@stephengrant4841]

Funk Masta Nicky no. Know what thats called? Black and white fiction, which George strongly dislikes. If anything it will be a duel not to the death, if they fight at all which i think they wont. I dont think there will be a war, at least in the books. The show will probably have a war between the two to appease the normie, showfag audience.

[@funkmastanicky3885]

Stephen Grant he already duked it out with one while the nights king watched...

[@stephengrant4841]

Funk Masta Nicky yes, there was a fight once. There is gonna be a war in the SHOW at least, but not in the books i dont think

[@sherborneprometheus8496]

Interesting discussion. Great job, charlie.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thank you! :-)

[@ravenarceneaux2283]

it's kinda ironic that dany's ancestors enslaved people and she's trying to stop it

[@PizzaRatJC]

raven arceneaux not that ironic if you'd ask me.... I mean, your own ancestors were probably cool with slavery and maybe even had slaves and you're most likely against it if you're a decent human being so no irony really....

[@ravenarceneaux2283]

Shadyest Jesus-Christ I'm pretty sure my ancestors were slaves but you know I'm not cool with that 😀

[@ortigasraymundo]

DANY might be a symbolization of AMERICA

[@Coolchannels4you]

Ortigas Raymundo Freedom,fuck yeah.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

I would be inclined to agree with you on that ;)

[@armincal9834]

I wonder why Vlyrians who are supposed to be from a hot desert and related to the element of fire were so bright skinned and blond? I always thought that Valyrians should have looked like Dronishmen(to represent heat and desert)

[@CharlieInWesteros]

An astute observation and also partially I suspect magic might have played some role in altering their appearance.

[@becsocsci621]

Great video Charlie. Love your vids. Sending peace✌️️ & love ❤️ from Aus.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thanks!! :D

[@tokyoinooshi4836]

That slap lol Very good job Charlie :)

[@CharlieInWesteros]

hehe thanks ;)

[@Moeller750]

good video, but I'm not sure I agree. first of all, I think the origin of the White Walkers will be different in ASOIAF. but also GRRM likes stuffing his books with opposites, counter-parts and parallels, without it necessarily having any greater meaning to the plot. Think House of Black and White, R'hllor and The Great Other, Tyrion' hair and eyes. the freaking series is called a song of ice and fire. I think the Valyrians and the Others are embodiments of those, just like Jon and Dany are. and what's more important, I think it's part of Martin's political message of anti-violence and anti-war: whether you fight with ice or fire, it always ends in suffering

[@JenniiB94]

Maria Moeller jon = Ice (Stark)+ fire (Targeryen)...

[@unicorn67mom]

Well, this has me thinking again; Tyrion's mother being a Lannister (Lion/Cat)was said to have been raped by the mad king on her wedding night, if she had consensual relations with her husband Tywin as well, maybe Tywin and Aerys are both Tyrion's father. Just a thought. We may never know. We know there is more to the Stark's Direwolf sigil than meets the eye. Might be the same for the Lannister Lion sigil as well.

[@stupidhandles]

Laurie Whelan how does someone have two biological fathers?

[@brettsmith6556]

theres been alot cases of people being chimeras i remember like 2003 police were looking for a rapist they a pretty much pinned for it they swabbed his mouth didnt mach to to sperm they found they finally tested hair also and made the connection that he was a triplet in birth but his brothers died and formed into him and had 3 different sets of dna 2 belong to the brothers who died in the whom and 1 to him

[@steverenne8133]

Laurie Whelan: This would explain how Tyrion was able to approach the chained dragons, which were starving at the time, and free them without being killed. He had not been previously introduced to them, so they had no familiarity, and yet they let him get dangerously close to them. The 'Mother of Dragons', when she found out, was so surprised that It helped with her decision to allow him in to her council.

[@fifimac2007]

Love your videos Charlie xxx

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thanks!! :D

[@brettsmith6556]

Glad i could share the correct information so you could learn it .

[@LizzleLeB]

Great vid - thanks for pulling it all together like that. I think your parallels about a magical ancient race (children of the forrest) creating ice based superhumans (the others) in the lands of always winter to ward of a threat but who then encroached/killed/enslaved humans in Westeros and a different magical ancient race (ashai?) creating fire based superhumans (valyrians) in the lands of always summer who then did the same thing in Essos has got to be spot on. GRRM loves harmony, history repeating itself, plus the swing of the planet and the way both mythical centres would sit on the pole and the equator is really smart. I really hope George digs into more detail about the parallels in Essos and that we get to see the rest of the world map! There are definitely some secrets being hidden off the page. NB. did you know there is a similar mystical "wall" or perimeter of castle forts in Ashai - described with weird similarities to the wall in terms of it's enchantments and it's defensive capabilites. Think 'Ideas if Ice and Fire' does a vid on it. This made me reflect that its the humans in the middle of the story that are distracting us from the simplicity of the bigger picture and providing human based histories that over look and subvert the true balance of the planet. It reminds me of the stories about early whaling butchering 'monsters of the sea' or the fact there used to be tigers all over river basins in Europe - humans tell the story of themselves, write their own favourable histories, they are their own god and the natural rhythm, needs and stories of the other creatures on the plant get over looked/distorted/forgotten.

[@brendawga]

Valyrians never came to westoros because of a prophecy that said to beware the lions gold of the west. So no valyrians ever ventured until a targaryen girl called daenerys had a dream about the doom so her dad brought her family to dragonstone.

[@cats3537]

Is this true or just a theory? If true can you tell me how you know this?

[@ShyJayne_bodied]

Cathryn Price on KZbin look up game of thrones history and lore

[@rouskeycarpel8652]

Stephen Patrick Allen I think Valyrians tried to conquer hardhome and met wargs that attempted or succeeding in warging into their dragons which caused the dragons to go crazy and cause mayhem.

[@mr.nobody7421]

In the books it was mentioned that the white walkers were spotted by the men of the Nightswatch still up until a few thousand or about couple thousand years after the events of the Long Night. And suddenly disappeared 5, 000 years ago. Also the Valyrians were supposedly traveled a lot so the stories of the white walkers may have reached them. Also the effects grey scale acts somewhat similar to those taken by the white walkers.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Very interesting thoughts there! Stuff I hadn't entirely considered either. Thank you for sharing :)

[@jennybum7454]

Im soo mind-blown right now! OH MAN i love this theory 👌🏽

[@CharlieInWesteros]

thank you! Happy you enjoyed the vid :-)

[@DJ80s]

There are so many questions but only 9 episodes left to answer the questions. That means only 9 hours of story left to answer all the unanswered questions.

[@VondaInWonderland]

This is a great theory♥

[@ineedfiles]

Valyrian eyebrows are funny

[@tylerjewett6556]

I don't know why but this made me laugh so hard. well done sir

[@CharlieInWesteros]

for some reason.. I kind of agree XD

[@SALSN]

GRRM is always about nuance, it would surprise me a lot if there were not more nuance to the others as well.

[@Cannibal713]

Interesting ideas. But in talking about the map, you failed to see something. The map is incomplete, there is no telling how big GRRM's world is. That and I recall not seeing a compass rose or remember a compass in the books, so not even sure where the poles are. The north of Westerose could be connected to Southos. It all depends on how the map is orientated on a globe.

[@bizarreworld2510]

I hope Martin doesn't take a Naruto approach to the orih gin of Valerians and white walkers and go the Kaguya Otsostuki way

[@whiteonyx4]

Finally someone with a theory similar to my own thoughts. I think there's a link for sure and I like to add one more link. I think the 3 heads of the dragon isn't about 3 dragon riders in a war. Rhaegar was told about it by a wood witch, what would she care about power. I think the only 'evil' were the first men bringing this world out of balance. I think the world is out of balance because the dragon needs to have 3 heads to be in balance aka the 3 shades of magic need to be in balance instead of one dominating the other 2 (when the Valyrians took over or dany now. Or when the WW are trying to (now)). Valyrians had one head, the mother of dragons (Dany, who brought back dragons already), fire made flesh. The second head is ice made flesh, the mother of WW....the nights queen. I think she's the dragon that needs to be awakened from stone. I'm guessing she is the ice dragon beneath winterfell and the reason why Jon dreams of going into the crypts...AA needs to awaken a dragon. And I don't think the WW are evil nor the enemy, they are a polar opposite force to the mother of dragons. The 3d head is the dragon casting shadow fire, so I think there is a 3d place to Valyrians and the land of always winter....asshai and their shadow binders...its also not accessible. The 3d head is a shadow binder....wanna bet she will have light skin and white hair as well. So I think its shady that both Queithe and Melisandre hide their identity and Mel is literally the mother of a shadow baby already. I think Jon is the prince that was promised (to come from the pact they made to unite ice and fire....a pact no one kept until Lyanna and Rhaegar). He just needs to bring shit back into balance. The Valyrians did blood magic to bring back the (mother of)dragons, the nights queen was 'stopped' when she did human sacrifice (same blood magic to bring the other heads back?) and asshai is known for doing blood magic. Can they all be trying to do the same thing? All 3 are trying to give the dragon 3 heads and are looking to create the prince that was promised. Even now...the WW are turning babies into WW, if they think they are of the Targaryen bloodline by turning them into WW they might be trying to bring on the prince that was promised of ice and fire...not knowing jon already exists and the union of ice and fire isn't freeze fire in a baby but create a baby of ice and fire bloodlines. The WW, Valyrians and shadow binders are equally as good/evil...they are the 3 heads of the dragon.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Haha, thank you! I will say your theory is quite a bit more developed! You certainly make some interesting points there, and things I hadn't really considered in the past. Thank you for sharing :)

[@whiteonyx4]

You're welcome. I'm probably wrong but it is an interesting coincidence.

[@cathefferan3106]

I'm not well versed in the stories but your theory is astoundingly viable and well balanced. You explained it so even I could follow--thank you :-)

[@siomhe8539]

I had actually wondered something similar but thought perhaps the "drowned god" was the third head. I associated the Asshai shadow binders with fire. But the "water, ice, and fire" also seem to have some ability to reanimate the dead, to survive extreme conditions and there are stories about the kings of the iron born mating with mermaids and fighting a demon tree. Perhaps there is a mermaid/first men hybrid somewhere.

[@laurili]

Interesting theory and fun to think about! I have always had the feeling that the Others are showing up to correct some imbalance in Westeros...

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Right?? It would certainly seem like it

[@AniruddhaRoyChowdhury3001]

Waiting for the books Winds of Winter & A Hope of Spring. Am sure GRRM will leave hints in those about the answers to these questions and many more.

[@normaaliihminen722]

When someones says ''never say never'' I always respond: ''You just said it twice''

[@mattwoods3317]

Hmm. Interesting. So maybe the idea is the Valyrians were 'created' by creatures similar to the children of the forest... that would be a good contrast. If it was the those from the shadow lands then maybe their goal was to make a safeguard. However, they soon learned as the children did that ultimate power corrupts ultimately. The Vylarians began their 3000 year rule and eventually wiped themselves out. Or just like the white walkers maybe they were 'defeated' and that was the cause of the doom. Hmmm. GRRM made some amazing books.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Brilliantly said Matt!! And yes, his books are too amazing! :)

[@cassiuscoleman4624]

There's a saying, among genre franchises like this one, but more specifically, I recall it from the former TV show "Heroes" that says:"We're all connected." For a long time now, I too, have suspected some connection between the wights and Valyrians. It just seems so fitting. I also think that R'hollor or the Lord of light is actually a Valyrian or Targaryen, and there seem to be numerous hints as to such, though somewhat, extremely vague and subtle. But like all of R. Martin's recurring themes and elements in the books/TV show, they point to something specific, but often point us in a myriad of directions, making it harder to locate. With what I've experienced in the books/TV show, and with what you've presented here, all I'm left with is a great amount of speculation. A while I think all us fans will get some answers out of the final two seasons of the TV and the concluding books of the series, I dare say that we will not get ALL of them. But they say it's the journey, not the destination.

[@coreyd423]

awesome video

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Thank you Corey :-)

[@coreyd423]

ive been with you forever!!!! You have always had good videos! Always will!!

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Corey Daniel Haha oh I know you have! :) And thank you!! Makes me happy you enjoy them so much! :-D

[@coreyd423]

lol wow thats awesome that you know how long ive been with ya, i mean you interact with us and thats AWESOME!!!! and the start Banner and your posters are in my car at Amazon LOL I've been wanting them forever but the wife don't seem to like the show as much as I do LOL but hey I'm finally on the fifth book!!

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Of course!! (And awesome re- the posters & banners haha). As for interaction, well its pretty easy for me to do that at this point considering I'm not getting a ridiculous amount (it wasn't so easy for me to engage with all the comments when Thrones was airing ofc), but for now its more than doable :)

[@husher5142]

@9:44 i agree with this. Also in the first book when Bran has his first version (while hes in a coma) he sees CURRENT events, every single thing he saw was happening at that moment somewhere in the known world and only one of those things was not explained or touched on by martin. Dragons in Asshai.

[@AUPackmule]

Very interesting video Charlie. I don't think there are any similarities to the Others and the Valyrions, but it's fun to think about. George did say there undead and the warg the dead. It seems like D&D have convinced us that the others are made. It would also seem that Craster isn't the only one sacrificing their sons. It sure is fun to talk about. Thanks!

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Haha fair enough! At the very least I am happy I provided something to think about ;)

[@frankjordan6798]

Completely agree there is some sort of a connection. Also, there has got to be more to the white walkers as far as society and structure, language, etc. I say this bc George has said numerous times that he HATES mindless villains that are just evil for the sake of it.

[@carriezen8499]

There's a vid called secret of the symbols by screenprism that goes into the idea of this vid and relates to many comments made here. Overarching balance (beyond perspective), and cycles to restore it.

[@oldnan7023]

Yes Charlie, I do think there is a connection between White Walkers & Valaryens. I think it is the Children of the Forest, breaking the Arm of Dorne, it is a possibility, according to Archmaester Cassander, it took several years of long hot summers followed by very short warm winters,heating up the globe, maybe creating the Valaryen race & opening up magic to the world..., lol. Just my tin-foil theory for the week. I like the connections you have drawn, very interesting. Thanks, Old Nan

[@CharlieInWesteros]

I must say I quite enjoy that tin-foil theory Old Nan! Thank you very much for sharing! P.S. Fancy seeing you here! Hope you enjoyed that little cameo of you I included in this video! ;)

[@oldnan7023]

Thanks Charlie, your video & mine are similar, mine goes further back, lol. If you have time check it out. Keep it up young man, I do enjoy your videos. God bless you.

[@rutger5000]

I like this theory. It can also link the doom of hardhome with the doom of Valeria (the former is often hinted as an trial version of the later). But I'm not really convinced, for I'd expect a smaller time gap between the rise of Valeria and the Long Night.

[@GardenOfXavius]

nice

[@gregorypollard3417]

The real question is: What in the story set the Others/whitewalkers off? What led to them encountering Waymar Royce and the other night's watch dudes? Was it an encounter on their way to scoop one of Craster's sons. Why are their wildlings on the north side of the wall, and what was they doing under Mance Rayder's leadership? 💯When that's found out then we know some answers but I do feel the Others/whitewalkers and the Valyrians are connected somehow. Great video! 👍👍👍

[@CharlieInWesteros]

You ask some VERY important questions there! Something I defs need to think on. Fantastic questions (and thanks for the comment)!! :-)

[@hanzflackshnack1158]

I saw a video of the Night King in the makeup room wearing Valyrian armor

[@Thailerr]

Another parallel between the two are how their weapons are made. The White Walkers use Ice in a way that "We can't imagine," while the Targaryens used Dragonfire to make Valyrian steel.

[@karlosborne5704]

the white walker king was the ninth lord commander of the Knights watch

[@JenniiB94]

Karl Osborne ikr where did he get all this crap lol

[@caseyjason-ws3fr]

So what was that Thing created by Children?

[@karlosborne5704]

hahaha I hadn't seen series six when I said it made me feel me stupid once I knew the truth

[@stephengrant4841]

Karl Osborne that was actually the 19th Lord commander, and a separate book only character called the Night's King.

[@chrisconnor5418]

the way the walker looks at jon you would think he knows what a valyrian is

[@CharlieInWesteros]

very interesting point! You could be right!

[@ravinraven6913]

just a thought. what if the dragon eggs initially came from a certain red commet? which will turn out to be a three headed dragon? or maybe Evey red commet is what brings new dragon eggs for some non easily guessable reason which is right up Martin's alley

[@DolphinRadio]

See.... that's why I love your content.... Icarus references.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

hehe thank you ;)

[@srujanmukkavilli4669]

Nothing new but more questions in the end.

[@corbitronify]

I do feel like the Others have some kind of consciousness, obviously. I'm not sure if we will ever get their history , or if it will be left up to us to draw conclusions. I don't think they are inherently evil, but their animosity towards "man" is obviously apparent.

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Yes, I think it would be much more interesting if there was a conscious force motivating their actions rather than a robotic drive to kill. Hopefully we'll learn in the next season or book a little more about their reasons for despising humanity.

[@sherrywallis7718]

I would like you to discuss within this the effect of the First Men and Angles in Westeros and the way they upset the balance of the people there. I thought this was why the White Walkers were created, to rein in the Men and their destruction of the Chidren's habitat.

[@rjdrakon2492]

I think you are right - there is a reason they are coming south. Something we have not been shown yet - Winterfells Crypts may hold the answer, maybe not. I suspect they are not absolute evil, but feel compelled to now, in this time, do what they are doing. Perhaps in the coming season we may find out more.

[@LyraTyrell]

I always assumed that the White walkers revived when the dragons were born, just as all other magics returned. I know it doesn't exactly line up as its shown in the books/show, but they play pretty fast and loose with the timelines in essos vs westeros. I wouldn't be surprised if everything with Dany actually happened months before Robert arrived in Winterfell.

[@jurgenjurihahaxD]

The first time seeing the white walkers on the show the first thing I thought was 'is he the zombie mad king?'. Now I know thats not the case I couldn't stop thinking of the how similar the targaryen and the white walkers were.

[@paytonedwards7066]

Every villain is a hero is their own story

[@marlenanapier3186]

THE RED WOMAN WAS THE VOICE IN THE FIRE WHEN WIZARD UNICED UNIC

[@laurabryan2653]

I watched an episode in which bran was staying in a cave to stay safe and the green people admitted to creating the white walkers as their protectors but things went awry.

[@MF-fk1lu]

Makes sense that "song of ice and fire" refers to the two most opposite forces in game of thrones. The Valerian (fire) and the white dead (ice). We know the forest people created the white dead, probably to fight the Valerian who are cutting their forests and killing them. Now it seems they help Bran to stop them.

[@wolfgar0king22]

The 7 point spiral the walkers laid in horse parts is also the sigil of the dragon house. 3 heads 2 wings 1 tail and leg

[@danzalisnock9128]

I think they also spare those who worship the old gods. Or something alone those lines. They spared Jon and Sam, the only two who did their vows in front of the weirwood

[@Valentina-Rose]

Can someone answer a question regarding why the white walker just passed Sam when he was be on the wall?

[@orangeprimate2633]

which was more powerful and/or rich: yi ti or valyria

[@Occurro]

OH BOY

[@ladyofthelake121]

This is why I think Danny won’t go “mad burner in chief” like in the show. I think her turn will be from liberator to slaver when she turns into super white walker that has to be stopped or ultimately takes over westeros - that makes more sense than the show.

[@jacobwatrous9366]

could the nights king be a dead valyrian? which has a ton of magical power and i seem to remember from somewhere a white walker wearing armor that had a V like symbol in the center of the chest.

[@ViroVV]

Considering the possibility that the world is a Dyson sphere it would point to the potential for the summer lands and the land of always winter to intersect with each other on the opposite end of the world "where to go south, you must go north". As the summer lands are considered to be uninhabitable by humans due to the teeming wildlife it would act as a buffer within that area of temperate lands between them, though it would likely present an area where the Valerian people and Dragon riders that would clash with the others and wight walkers. This conflict serves two functions. It explains why few explorers go so far south. It also explains why the army of the dead nomadically follows the seasons to stay within its ice range. Seasonally summer would encroach upon the wight walkers southern boundary and much like what they do to the lands of the north in Westeros, they are actually fleeing the fiery remnants of the Valerian peoples. This concept that Valerians still exist in some limited capacity offers the potential to explain how dragon eggs could be obtained despite all traces of them being effectively eradicated from the "known" world.. While there has been a given reason as to why the intro scene appears rounded inward with its horizon that claims it is merely for aesthetic purposes, and it might bring up its own questions, the truth is that entirely too much becomes instantly much more logical if this is in fact true. Not the least of which is just how susceptible the army of the dead is to both Valerian weaponry as well as Dragonic artifacts in the form of obsidian. Also, it is important to also remember that GRRM also had his own history with writing sci fi. Making this concept one that may be a personal secret he wishes to keep to himself. From a physics perspective, the concept of a "long winter" or "long summer" is highly problematic in an astronomical planetary model. The dyson sphere theory is much more easy to reconsile with the star being surrounded by a giant gyroscopic series of rings as seen in both the intro as well as in the citadel in the show. Anyway, simply a personal theory that helps to connect this theory together.

[@axehammer3850]

Nature always balances itself out. Yin and yang.

[@shani19871]

Is it possible that the first white walker was a valerian before he changed?

[@OzyMandias13]

I haven't seen this anywhere but I admittedly haven't looked around much. Aren't the spiral patterns made out of corpses that the White Walkers leave a take on the House Targaryen's Sigil? It looks like 3 heads, 3 tails, and wings... In fact, in the S7 Sneak Peek called, "Sigils" they show the clip of the pattern... Seems obvious they either seek Targaryen or the NK is a Targaryen...

[@devingendron2287]

So here's a suggestion for discussion, the faceless men and the white walkers. On the one hand, the faceless men worship death, witch the walkers seem an incarnation of to many. However, the faceless men offer death as a "gift," an end of suffering and entrapment, where as the walkers use death to imprison others. Might the Faceless men view the walkers and wights as a perversion of the "gift?" And if so, would they join to combat it?

[@allanmuns5878]

Oh my goodness. How in the world do you keep track of all this information?

[@phoebus1503]

Well, there is evidence of Valyrians exploring far beyond their lands. Some Valyrian dragonrider explored Sothoryos much further, and found it a lot bigger than what we currently see. Plus, trade is an option for the Valyrians. Maybe it's not written in the maesters' texts, but it may be that the Valyrians traded with the Westerosi. So maybe when they traded with, I don't know, Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, they saw the Wall, and thought "Oh, I wonder what's beyond that." and explored further north, using dragons. Now that I think about it, this could also be the origin of ice dragons. Valyrians getting lost in the far reaches of the north, dying in the cold, while their dragons adapt to the cold, developing ice breath and becoming ice itself.

[@bizarreworld2510]

what if Valerians and white walkers shared a wizard ancestry and in their conquest for powers these wizards made different kinds of demonic pacts hence affecting their bodies so

[@wgarcia2001]

i believe,that in the books atleast,the 1st men were proto valyrians or that they all come from the same gene pool

[@CharlieInWesteros]

Yes, I could certainly see that being the case. I certainly wonder if the Daynes don't play some role in terms of that aspect.

[@jgonsalk]

I think the magic in that world ebbs and glows and is always in balance. When there are White Walkers in the North powered by the magic of the cold, there is blood magic and dragons powered by fire.

[@AdamFanGal]

why didnt that white walker kill samwell???

[@AniruddhaRoyChowdhury3001]

In the book at least Sam got known among Black Brothers as Sam the Slayer because he destroyed one using the Obsidian blade that Jon gifted him.

[@johnnycamine]

my theory is that valyrians are “fire others” or are at least on the path to that (with the red priest moqorro and victarions red hand being the endpoint for the fire other transformation). i think that the others could be connected to the great empire of the dawn in a similar way to how valyria is connected to TGEOTD

[@lyradem1]

The idea that their home is soon going to be shattered and that is why they decided to immigrate south is the only good and interesting theory I have ever came across. It is logical, not far fetched or tin foily and it answeres the GRRM rhetoric of the complicity of someone's intentions. Remember that no one is entirely and purely evil or good in the world of ice and fire. I subbed 🤗

[@mismismism]

I mean, we found out now dragon glass was used to make the White Walkers so it could be argued they took on Targaryen features because they were created using a fire magic made substance and the Targaryens arguably look like that because of their ties to fire magic and dragons. I wonder if something similar could happen in the opposite way, take a Targaryen instead of a Stark and enchant them with White Walker ice metal stuff.

[@TheBadlandzprince]

didn't brannon see how the the children of the wild make the first walkers? or was that just the show?

[@_dr_ake]

Who knows, by the time A Dream of Spring comes out GRRM will be so senile that any bonkers nonsense could end up appearing in the books.

[@susannechakan4939]

that wasn't Tyrion's voice in the beginning....it was weird. at 7:00 you talk about slaves...and they bred them....sounds like a theory of the Earth via the Annunaki..

[@randytusone260]

If you think of the occurrence of the Long Night scientifically, it would have happened after the massive volcanic eruption that created the area which became Valaria.

[@Cytotron]

IM BACH! Watching this video again and leaving a comment. I LIKE THIS! There let it be heard. Also there is but one true god in the song of ice and fire and that is KEK! SHADILAY!

[@jamesa.1345]

What if the Children of the forest are like the Valyrians and created the white walkers and dragons as weapons opposite to eachother?

[@jasonparker1965]

Interesting thought..as to the link of dragon glass being the bane of the others..and as ep 6 showed..the others "ice" is the bane of dragons it seems..do is there a link there?

[@monikan365]

Didn't Danny have a vision in which she s told that answers r to be found in Ashire...??

[@TheGap1952]

I was wondering why do the White Walkers have to be related to ice, winter, and cold? I mean all we know is that they were supposedly created by the Children using dragonglass, which has nothing to do with ice whatsoever, on the contrary I would say. So I can't see any direct connection between them and ice. After all in Bran's vision we only see the Night King's eyes turn blue but we are given no further explanation of how or why he turned icy and cold. What if they are part of a larger species of supernatural creatures whose common characteristic is superhuman powers, telepathic abilities and relation to magic in general, and not anything cold-related. And what if for whatever reason some of them were ''corrupted'' or changed in a way, thus becoming frosty and banished to the Lands of Always Winter, resorting to the use of ice as their primary weapon and tool, and those are the White Walkers as we know them. Therefore ice would simply be a mutation of sorts, like an evolutionary trait. Or if you prefer a symptom, a complication of their altered state of being Could this species come in other shapes and forms (possibly some related to fire, for example) and encompass other magical beings as well (dragonlords, greenseers, etc)? Perhaps the White Walkers themselves could be ''redeemed'' at some point and revert to a more humane and ''warmer'', so to speak, existence? TL;DR All we know is that the Children create White Walkers using magic, but no adequate explanation has been established for how or why they are connected to ice and cold. Maybe they are part of a large group of magical beings and only some of them strayed from the original species creating a kind of ''evolutionary branch'' and ending up as the icy cold Walkers we know. Could we get any future appearances by other types of such creatures?

[@alinea3222]

It's funny how some people are absolutely fascinated by the world of GoT and come up with these huge theories. They sound like some historian/scientist/moderator. Guess it must be better than real life then. So many lies in our 'real' world. They have taken out the magic and put the grind in. Hail GRR Martin! You made our world better.

[@johnathankinne3998]

But why not this time? is he not allowed to change it up?

[@noorussabahtauqeer9709]

The Lyseni have silver-gold hair and lilac/violet/purple/indigo eyes.

[@MrGeorge01]

Ok, so that thing children of forest pushed to his heart can't be dragon glass, since dragons were discovered by valyrians 5000 years after. Right?

[@TheFreakPsi]

I've always found very odd the fact that valyrian steel is the "bane" of white walkers as the valyrians rose to power many years after the long night; and there's definitely something shady about asshai, too...