The Doom Was An Inside Job (Faceless Dragon p.1)

In AFFC, the Faceless Men of Braavos seem to take credit for engineering the Doom of Valyria, and most in the fandom agree they had a hand in it. But the Faceless Men usually work for hire, and there's this weird Valyrian prophecy about the gold of casterly Rock destroying Valyria... so did someone hire the Faceless Men to do the deed? There's a strong case to made that someone did - the Targaryens of Dragonstone. In other words... T+FM=D, or, "the Doom was an inside job."
NEW! PART 2!!! • The Doom was an Abolit...
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*Huge thanks to Ba'al the Bard for helping in the development of this theory, check out her KZbin channel: / @gretchenlovesbooks
*Doom of Valyria livestream w/ Ba'al the Bard: • The Doom of Valyria (L...

[@hardybryan]

I keep a fish room in my basement. A few years ago during the coldest week of winter, our furnace died and then there was a blackout in my neighborhood that lasted 3 days. Between all the filters going out and the cold, all of my fish died but 1. I named him Aenar and refer to the incident as the Doom.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Wow that’s dark. But fitting

[@hardybryan]

@@DavidLightbringer Yeah, it sucked, but it's been a few years now. Aenar is still going strong, so there's that and the tanks have all been slowly restocked since that time. Also put a generator in.

[@MentalBrothers]

@@hardybryan Damn, give it a few more years and you'll have a selfproclaimed fish sitting ontop of your Iron sink claiming to be king over the Showerbeds and the Toilet wastelands, riding your cat into battle conquering his foes!

[@gregrogowski4017]

@@MentalBrothers 😆😆😆

[@billwright4234]

Damn sorry to hear about all of your fish... Sucks you weren't able to get some other kind of heated for you and your fish for a few days.

[@robertknoll9641]

All that gold going to the faceless men in Braavos, someone should start a bank.

[@Ahmed-ii7up]

The Iron bank! Mind Blown!

[@wallybonejengles5595]

What a bold and yet clever way to launder your blood money.

[@JasmineEdison]

@@wallybonejengles5595 I mean... it would explain the fact that the guards are watching the money AND EACH OTHER. Seems like the Mafias of the world should take note.

[@timtheskeptic1147]

I suspect the Iron Bank gets a huge discount when hiring FM to collect debts.

[@sh1ttywidow943]

😵

[@TheKadanz]

'largly based on logic' *Dan and dave have left the building*

[@zeera7080]

You mean the planet

[@inkubus6192]

They sorta forgot.

[@Gormryjk]

So Aenor Targaryen was basically Littlefinger of Valyria? A lesser lord looked down upon by the elite, who creates chaos and destruction for him to use as an opportunity to build wealth and power..

[@yudai112]

Well Aenor is a high born in the first place though, with the dragon rider gene within him and certainly not rags to richest

[@damianallen8377]

@Sean Francis Waters Lancaster the Targaryens was not the weakest of the Dragonlord families they were not one of the most powerful but they were not the weakest either and their were 40 Dragonlord families that ruled Valyria not 43.

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

Given Littlefinger's grandfather (or great-grandfather, dont remember entirely but pretty sure it was the grandfather) was from Braavos, founded by valyrian slaves, and how in our world there were quite a few mixed-race slave children, they could even share some sort of (very) distant ancestry. Completely irrelevant either way, given most people in Essos, at least, if not Westeros, are probably descended from Valyrians, but the theory popped into my head the second I read "Littlefinger of Valyria"

[@ahtinen4004]

*Aenar, not Aenor

[@targaryen7029]

@Sean Francis Waters Lancaster 40* families. There were just 40 dragonlord families, not 43. Where did you get the 43 from?

[@EvanSol919]

I wonder if Daenys's vision actually gave Aenar the idea to create the Doom, the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm very interested in the idea that Marwyn found 3 pages of Daenys's book Signs and Portents.

[@williamwhitfield6225]

Self fulfilling prophecy seems to be George’s thing, the prophecy in itself isn’t really true but the actions it inspires are real and seem to fulfill he prophecy in a way.

[@lucasbatista9369]

that's very Dune too

[@kirstenpaff8946]

While this theory is plausible, there are still several major holes in it. 1. If most of Targaryen wealth came from trade between Essos and Westeros and in particular the trade of Valyrian steel, why would they destroy Valyria and consequently plunge Essos into civil war? 2. Destroying Valyria did not destroy all of the dragons. As far as I recall, several dragon lords remained in the Valyrian colonies after the Doom, and it took another century of civil war to wipe them out. It was pretty obvious that the Targaryens would not gain a dragon monopoly from the Doom. 3. Other than petty revenge, there seemed to be no real reason for the Targaryens to destroy Valyria. If the Targaryens were clever enough to pull off the Doom, then they would have been clever enough to use it to their advantage. The invasion of Westeros happened well after the Doom, and considering that Valyria had not shown any particular interest in Westeros for thousands of years beyond the odd trading post, it seems unlikely that the Freehold would have objected to the Targaryens conquering it. Personally, I think this theory makes more sense, if the Targaryens hired the Faceless Men to take out some old rivals after being forced into exile (the prophetic dream might have been true, or just an attempt to save face) and the Faceless Men used that wealth to fund the Doom. The Faceless Men always talk about people as tools, so it seems plausible that they saw the Targaryens as tools, or as a means to achieve their ends. The Targaryens never intended to cause the Doom, they just wanted revenge.

[@michaelkulakov9716]

Would the top dogs let a small player conquer a continent and keep it to themselves? Really unlikely, that would shift the power dynamic quite a bit. But your other ideas are good, Targaryens may not have been the sly puppet musters but folks who were smart enough to see the opportunity and dumb enough not to see all the consequences. Petty revenge is also quite a believable motive for a dragon lord reduced to living on a rock in the middle of nowhere.

[@JoshSweetvale]

@@michaelkulakov9716 Uncontrollable underlings getting too violent is also a common ASOIAF trope. Everyone from the Goldcloaks to the Sand Snakes gleefully leap into bludgeoning and murder when left unattended.

[@Ivanus59]

But if they believed that the Doom would wipe out the whole of Valyria, why would they then bother to waste a ton of gold to hire the Faceless Men to do what they had already expected to be achieved by the cataclysm of the Doom? :)

[@MegaKnight2012]

It would create their best chance at creating a monopoly. It's one of the reasons they practice incest amongst dragon-riders, to monopolize the dragon power. Creating scarcity of Valyrian steel would drive up the prices. It honestly isn't the best business plan, but villains are stupid, and if the Targaryens caused the Doom, then they could very well qualify as villains, especially if it was like a Mafia hit to eliminate rivals instead of ending tyranny, leaving them the Valyrian Godfathers.

[@Shaz1993xoxo]

I wonder, do you think Aenar, knowing his daughter has reliable prophetic dreams, could have used a glass candle to perhaps plant the dream of The Doom in Daenys' mind with the knowledge that she would immediately warn the family, and then they could "flee" to Dragonstone? No one would question where her dream came from, and Aenar would have the excuse to get him and his family safely away.

[@PaiMeiofthelotusclan]

Shannon0893 check out my comment, I was thinking along the same lines. We know dreams can be influenced. I was thinking the great other or one of his minions but I like your idea too

[@DavidLightbringer]

@@PaiMeiofthelotusclan very very sneaky guys, haha

[@DavidLightbringer]

I mean that's an inside inside job, good lawd. Right inside the skull

[@quaesitrix881]

I think it more likely that the opposite happened : Daenys' dream inspired Aenar's plan. If the destruction of Valyria was already fortold, it would have been smart of Aenar to get out of the way, and to make sure that it happened in a way that benefited him and his family.

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

This immediately makes me want to relate "burn them all" to this. The Mad King maybe himself had some kind of flash back where he saw that his own ancestor Targs' claim to the Westeros throne was rooted in some kind of morally questionable blood magic pact that was connected to the destruction of an entire civilization? I'm always trying to figure out what exactly it must have been for The Mad King to see that was so earth shattering it made him go mad.

[@Mizelei2012]

I think it could have been bloodraven trying to warn Aerys about the White Walkers and Wights

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

@@Mizelei2012 Yes I think that's a good possibility!

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

@Chuck Spadina He wasn't always as deranged as a young person though, according to reports

[@snoboater]

Him being imprisoned for 6 months probably didn't help

[@adamplentl5588]

"Burn them all," was time travelling Bran. I think he was mad because Bloodraven kept warging into him.

[@kylez9094]

Makes me wonder how the FM view Dany: on one hand, she is actively ending slavery in the east, but on the other she has brought dragons back to planetos. Goes for Bravos as a whole as well. Both Bravos and the FM were founded by anti-dragon slaves. I'd like to think theyre more anti-slavery than anti-dragon, but who knows

[@matocian_empire8]

You and lml would get along

[@James-sk4db]

If the Targareans gave the faceless men the tools to destroy valeria then perhaps they are cool with targs

[@lsdavenger5856]

Planetos 💀💀💀

[@laurinkaebelmann6373]

We know that the sealord of Bravos once bought three dragons eggs from a Targaryen princess. Which probably means that they are ok with dragons as long as they serve them or their interest. In Danys case ending slavery, weakening the other trade cities of essos and paying back the money they loaned the iron throne.

[@heidelward905]

The taxidermy slapstick got me 😂😂😂😂😆

[@applewagon253]

It's the extra stuff that you do so well that brings me back time and time again! Well that and geeking out HARD on ASOIAF.

[@tracymetherell8744]

Loving your Monty Python banter about no one expecting the faceless men and their one, two, no make that three, well alright four weapons! Humorous and interesting way to make your point.

[@elketerbentzadik]

So, I couldn't help relate the fiery Doom to your more recent videos about "fire wights" and "fire others." First, I noted that there is a section of the Valyrian Freehold called "The Lands of Long Summer," a phrase that mirrors "The Long Night" which is obviously associated with cold and "Winter." But there is also the odd case of Aerea Targaryen who, atop Balerion the last living creature to have witnessed pre-Doom Valyria, apparently went to the ruins of Valyria and upon returning died in a really interesting way. She basically burned from the inside, and her body was infested with "unspeakable things...creatures of heat and fire" who only "died" when exposed to "cold and ice." This apparently inspired King Jaehaerys to forbid any Westerosi from going to Valyria under penalty of death. There's something wacky going on with Valyrian magic and whatever caused the Doom seems almost like a reverse "Long Night."

[@TheChrisSig]

Why are people sleeping on your awesome content? As much as I love how in-depth Order of the Green Hand is, your scripts are way tighter. Also, you are so diligent about referencing other creators. Thanks for single-handedly reigniting my love for ASOIAF.

[@hippieschmutz5484]

i commented the same thing on another LML video - this guy really knows what he does

[@dylanbsll6342]

couldn’t agree more i love the genuine intrigue that these vids can capture

[@andrzejkopalnia]

I'm back here at 81.3k subs baby!

[@fuzzyhair321]

The dragonlords, in their greed dug to deeply. Sounds like a balrog to me and the doom of moria

[@KatieLHall-fy1hw]

That’s what I always think of too 😆

[@fuzzyhair321]

@@AshePBlack a volcano

[@QuinnsIdeas]

EPIC!

[@doktorcool3740]

Love the Facless Men Spanish Inquisition interpretation!

[@malirabbit6228]

I really enjoyed this video,LML ! This video was a tall, cool refreshing drink in the dry parched desert that is the wait the next book!

[@AJBouc]

The quote says Aenor brought along his fam and stuff but also his slaves. Yet slavery did not catch on in Westeros. I think you and Ba'al touched on this in the live stream, but do you think freeing slaves or stopping slavery was part of his deal with the FM? That would fit with Dany being the breaker of chains and her ultimate fate.

[@DavidLightbringer]

yes, and I'm going to talk about that in P2. I think I found more evidence that that was part of the purpose

[@sataridis]

as Preston Jacobs often argues, Feudalism and serfdom really is another form of slavery (at least in GRRMartin's perspective, as he draws some parallels between serfs and slaves)

[@whitealliance9540]

@@DavidLightbringer you don't know lucifer. Meet his son kzbin.info/www/bejne/n37TaHV-ls2MbsU watch him when you are bored. He's a dark Sith... And his forehead is blessed with the blood and guts of little baby jesus.

@@whitealliance9540 quiet, nazi

[@whitealliance9540]

@ sorry I dont think black people can be Nazis... Kinda a conflict of interest ... But you have ZI in your last name so you can be a Nazi for me. Be cute and wear daddys musky thong.

[@wafikaskera7179]

It's also funny that the lannisters literally played a hand in the doom of house targaryen, much like they did with their gold in valyria's doom.

[@bryanmatos5472]

Im on a in depth LML binge, so I'm going through and liking every video I've already watched.. Great research!

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh this is a fun one

[@CZ-dg7te]

Not poking at the theory exactly, more questioning seeking clarification... I thought the Faceless men's high cost was because they scale their cost to the requestor's ability to pay and how bad they want/need it, so that the cost is always great in order to prove the person is serious enough to make a real personal sacrifice to achieve it. The cost for an assassination would be greater when requested by a King or rich person than by a poor wretch or slave. So while I don't disagree completely, I don't think Brightroar would have been enough to purchase the Doom... maybe one sword = gold = one FM = one dead mage? All the swords = enough gold = kill all the mages = Doom? Does this theory assume that the FM understood that killing the mages would result in the Doom? I would say if Aenor was purchasing "The Doom" that cost would have be so incredibly high, so much so that if the FM did understand, I question if there is even enough money in the world to purchase something like the Doom? I think the cost would have to be even higher still, and bit more personal than only gold. Maybe this is one piece of the puzzle, but most likely far from being the whole or half picture Although I do agree that I think Dany's end of her character arc will be confronting whatever dark mysteries are wrapped up in the history of her Valyrian ancestry and what they were doing with their slaves (ie. blood magic, human experiments, sacrifices, mining, binding dragons, valyrian steel etc.)

[@DavidLightbringer]

So I thought about, and in part to I am going to address a few loose end arguments like this. I think the Faceless Men probably would have asked Aenar for a ton of gold, yes - and he may well have paid more than what he got from the sale of Brightroar, for sure. We know he was selling swords at that time from Dragonstone. But for the purposes of our mystery, it's that cursed casterly rock gold that we want to follow, even if other gold that may well have been involved in the deal. The other factor is that the Faceless Men would have their own motivations and reasons for wanting to bring Valyria down, so it may be that they quoted Aenar a price he could actually pay when they not have otherwise. Like if somebody came and said they wanted to kill everyone in Yi Ti (perhaps through some sort of disease or virus or something comprable to a Doom event), the FM would be like "that'll be a billion dollars please" but for Valyria, they might have been like "well how much you got"

[@CZ-dg7te]

@@DavidLightbringer ​ I look forward to Part II. I'm definitely interested in seeing if you can tie the theory into the other pieces and prophecies around the Doom. Tin Foil Add On: Is it possible the timeline for that prophecy could apply to the more current story instead? If the Targs are the last of the Valyrian Freehold and the Lannisters play the final role in the Targ's end, is that not destroying the last of the Freehold. I.e. Lannisters backing the rebellion and putting an end to the Targ ruling dynasty, maybe if the gold belt Drogo used could have been made from gold traded from the rock, if Dany meets some end as well relating to the Lannisters? It'd be a shame but could fit. I always thought it was interesting that GRRM writes his prophecies in ways that make it seem disaster was pretty avoidable if the person hearing them just chose not to believe it and act otherwise. E.g. the Freehold then believed the gold is "cursed" so they leave it in Casterly Rock, but by leaving it there is what allowed the Lannisters to use it to buy Brightroar or later have the power/influence to destroy the last of the Targs.

[@Nga_Babaye]

I think the FM perform jobs for things other than capital gain or interest. The riddance of slavery may have been enough for them to act. Perhaps, there organization wasn't as powerful at that time and Aenar threatened to burn them to the ground, or the Aenar knew was forced by the FM. There are a lot ways Martin could elaborate if he wanted too.

[@CZ-dg7te]

@@Nga_Babaye I agree I don't think money alone is enough to motivate them. I can't remember where but I heard a theory that suggested that Danys the Dreamer, didn't have prophetic visions so much as she was visited by someone. Like how Quaithe gives Danaerys prophecy of what's to come.

[@Nga_Babaye]

@@CZ-dg7te Aenar took, nor employed slaves, afterward, so that says something about whatever happened.

[@bklyntraveler9705]

"Just like the people who can ONLY live in downtown Manhattan". YES!! This New Yorker who lives in Brooklyn says YES!

[@DavidLightbringer]

glad someone feels me on that... I'm from SF but same deal

[@bklyntraveler9705]

Lucifer means Lightbringer it used to be said that SF was the only west coast city that would feel like home for a NYer.

[@Nga_Babaye]

@@DavidLightbringer We get a lot of San Franciscans moving to Asheville, NC these days. I read quite a few Californians writing for local papers call it the Little San Francisco of the Mountains, but I think it's mostly a micro brewery thing, along with connections between various types of art that originates from both places.

[@bklyntraveler9705]

@@Nga_Babaye that's interesting, because Asheville is on my list of places to retire to (they are also known for having an active lifestyle). I have a few years to go, but it can't hurt to plan! I need to find someplace where geeks/nerds are in reasonable numbers :-)

[@Nga_Babaye]

@Dr. M. H. I have no idea why property skyrocketed over there in 1990s other than Mission Hospital-St. Joseph Merger and everyone wanted to come in and work at it, and the brewery shit. I just believe in living outside and playing inside. Biltmore only upgraded because of Mission's growth.

[@shay212]

On a serious note, I love listening to how this was all put together. It's like watching the pieces of a massive puzzle come together and seeing how they were arranged to fit. I hadn't even thought about the monetary aspect of why Aenar would come to Dragonstone, but it makes sense. He saw a chance not just to get out, but still live in exceeding luxury and comfort. And since the Targaryens weren't a particularly powerful house at the time, them leaving might have been mocked, but also wouldn't likely raise suspicion because it could look like them deciding they couldn't compete anymore with the houses so they're going somewhere they can compete easier (and probably played into other Valyrians' vanity). Plus since they weren't particularly powerful Aenar didn't have to worry about other dragon lords actually taking him that seriously and following him and his allies. On a non-serious note, I couldn't help imagining Aenar as Scrooge McDuck when you mentioned him swimming in gold. And that man was definitely a fan of horror, cause the second his 12 year old started talking about supernatural terror about to be unleashed, he knew to pack up and sell the house. He decided to not be the guy in whatever the Valyrian equivalent of a horror movie was. Also the Monty Python reference was worth all the gold of the Lannisters.

[@andrzejkopalnia]

How could I have ever lived without these videos is beyond me... Edit: Where is Part II?

[@tony3483]

Excellent work on one of the least discussed but most important theories/conspiracies in this story. Great animation, narration and humor. Well worth watching multiple times

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

I can't believe this went over my head entirely I'm at like 25:00 and screaming

[@DavidLightbringer]

which one, the fame of George flipping the bird?

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

@@DavidLightbringer All of it !!! Stoked for part 2

[@MichaelTargaryen8809]

one of my fav theories you got on here sir i am a targaryen supporter to the bone so painting them as abolishionists really lights my targ fire 🔥

[@xJavelin1]

Interesting theory. But I'm confused as to exactly how Aenar Targaryan went about hiring the Faceless Men. It's not like this kind of contract and transfer of wealth could be done remotely. And a 3rd party transaction seems pretty dubious too. Surely, this has to be a face to Face(less) negotiation. But before the Doom, Braavos was known as the "Hidden City". It's location not widely known, and especially hidden from the Dragonlords of Valyria. So how could AT even learn about Braavos in the first place? He seems to be precisely THE last person in the world the Braavosi would entrust with any information regarding their city. Plus, before Braavos really came out to the rest of the world in the centuries following the Doom, would anyone in the wider world even have heard of the Faceless Men? And even if they had, surely they wouldn't have had anything like their current reputation. So as a matter of grounded practicality, how exactly could AT have possibly hired the Faceless Men?

[@shooshooshooshooshooter]

Not only would TFM have a personal investment in the job (being descendants of escaped slaves of the Freehold), but if AT met the conditions of acquiring their services (third of his wealth) they’d have absolutely done it. Getting in contact with TFM wouldn’t have been difficult considering proximity between Braavos and Dragonstone. Even if dragons struggle to locate Braavos due to the fog, intermediaries could’ve easily been used to arrange a meeting.

[@sj-bg4up]

theyr're faceless men, they're no one, you can pay no one to kill someone. its that simple to them

[@diwataluna]

I have been binging your videos and truly enjoy the depth you bring into Asoiaf, and the voice and humor too. I'll need to get the rest of Martin's books now.

[@DavidLightbringer]

oh wow that's fantastic to hear! Put a smile on my face :)

[@JoeyWhisperz]

In acok varys was telling that joke about a priest assassin and someone else and tyrion asks varys who was the assassin he said "he was no one"

[@casanovajones3262]

Hmm, well it would seem to me that your theory ALSO gives a motivation for even the initial move of the Targaryens to Dragonstone, and it wasn't just $$$. If he was able to orchestrate this masterpeice of a plan, it stands to reason that all of it would be connected and the plan was either already in place or in the works before leaving Valyria, with the move being the first step. Just think of simple things such as communication lines, gold shipments, planning, etc (there could be 1000 items on this list). Being on Dragonstone would help the logistics of the entire scheme. Not to mention the increased security inherent in being so far removed from Valyria, full of people with zero motivation or reason to investigate, or hell even visit, some minor Lord on some useless rock thousands of miles away from anything important. I think this is a solid take.

[@fenyx6573]

I wanted to brush up on this video before I check out your new one. Thanks for all your work, man!

[@lo3769]

Awesome work on both the script and the visuals! Nice link to the moon meteors, can't wait for part 2 😁

[@jishubharadwaj3817]

Not only the amount of gold for brightroar was enough for an army. We also have to understand through basic economics that the gold people use to trade in most of westeros would've been mined in the Rock which through trade between families and merchants over the course of years and decades would've trickled down to the gold most people in westeros would use. So in a way most of the trade aenar did in westeros was paid for gold mined from the Rock which i would assume would be much larger than the amount of gold received for brightroar

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh okay that’s another angle on that prophecy no one has mentioned. But yes you’re right, almost all the golden conns Westeros has ever had came from Casterly mines. Very good

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

Saw this comment in one of your videos David, it said " " *No one* knows what cause the Doom." I love that detail!

[@treehouse318]

i absolutely love your videos. thank you for all of the work and the love that you put into them.🔥

[@khalyasongofnerdsandwriter5473]

THE PHOTO OF MARTIN MADE ME ACTUALLY SPIT COFFEE! DAMN IT LUCI! 🤣👌🏻

[@thupple]

Ah, at last a proper stretch of time (90 minutes , yes I am very obsessive and thorough in my viewings) to relish this completely fabulous video. Thank you many times, so looking forward to Part 2!

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

Aenar.. This entire time I've been thinking he's a super unimportant character. What if Dany is some kind of sacrifice for some kind of magic fire/ice pact her ancient grandfather made for his own benefit?? She definitely has this theme of fulfilling things that people who ruled before her started..

[@pinkbunny6272]

With 14 vulcanos you have any number of sleeping vulcanos at the same time. If you have 5 naturally occurring sleepy ones all you need is to control the others. And active could mean just small amounts of steam and stone (watched way too many vulcanology documentaries). Magic might be just as powerful as luck and planning, at the same time?

[@HomieWanKenobiTV]

Hey LML just wanted to say Thanks and show some appreciation for the great quality of videos! You and Quinn’s Ideas of made me obsessed with ASOIAF can’t thank you enough

[@Christopher-rr5ix]

Hey! I liked the style of the video during the quoted sections. Very cool 🤘🏻

[@blackeyedlily]

What a fun listen! This reminded me of how much I enjoyed reading and listening to ASOIAF theories and all the symbolism analysis. I’m going to go listen to the longer discussion now to get more of this. And I look forward to your Part II.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Hey Lily! Great to see you around!

[@Cromenockle]

Viserys told us what happened in Valyria and he didn't noticed 😂😂😂 when he is talking to Rhaenyra, 1st episode.. And the same sentence justified Vhagar's actions towards Aemond. " The idea that we control dragons is an illusion. They're a power, man should've never trifled with. One that brought Valyria it's doom, if we don't mind our own histories , it will do the same to us" Dragons turned on themselves and burned the entire city to the ground.. now he know what causes the doom.

[@TheBrett1890]

CAN'T WAIT FOR PART TWO!

[@tanksmoonchild]

Why you still don't have more the 30k subscribers beggars belief. You deliver a constant stream of quality material. And the live streams are also always top notch.

[@johnmontag]

I think part of what you're saying makes sense. I would of thought if he wanted to completely corner the Valyrian Sword market, you'd learn to make them. I think there's a possibility that the Maesters were the ones who sold Bright Roar to the Lannister's

[@Truthster772]

I’m becoming more and more convinced with each video that Dany will indeed “go home.” She will restore the land of her ancestors - Valeria.

[@shooshooshooshooshooter]

How? Valyria is a smoking, demon-infested hellscape. You literally cannot traverse it. No one returns from there. If you’re referring to the Valyria we got in the show, that was not book accurate at all.

[@hennakreed8860]

The last time someone travelled to Valyria, they wound up infested with Firewyrms and died painfully and there was something big enough to hurt Balerion, who was MUCH larger and dangerous than any of Dany's dragons.

[@miralande220]

No; Asshai! Home of her ancestor, the amethyst empress.

[@JoshSweetvale]

21:45 Brightroar got Valyria kersploded, and was then lost in Valyria. Karma swings both ways. 25:50 Wasn't there some other Dragonlord lunatic who took over Volantis and the Free Cities for a while? - Point is; the Targaryens weren't the last people who had dragons, but they were the last _family_ with the _infrastructure_ to _raise_ *new* dragons. 27:15 That's also an End of Evangelion reference, I think. Apocalypse-Rei as Nissa Nissa.q

[@nymerianan4short314]

I’m soo looking forward to this :)

[@lyannabanna6917]

Thanks for this rare, nice, short, to-the-point presentation!!! The Starks' Ice is 400 yrs old [barely pre-doom]; the Tarlys' Heartsbane is 100 yrs older [clearly pre-doom]. Is this history important? More significant? According to Old Nan (A+ credibility), The Last Hero's sword froze and broke before he found the Children of the Forest, who apparently had no metal weapons. So how did he suddenly acquire the powerful sword that forced the Others to retreat? Was it Ice? Dawn? I am firmly convinced that the AA legend/prophesy happened in Essos and that The Last Hero saved Westeros from The Long Night. I also like the idea that Sam's home is Horn Hill, as in the horn that he has resisted selling and carried with him ever since Ed? Ghost? discovered it.

[@nymerianan4short314]

I love this. Very visual video and I hope you do more like this

[@conniesuper9892]

This was great!!!

[@geoffwilliams6072]

Wow been watching for close to two years and just realized I wasn't subscribed. Always in my suggestions. Subbed just now tho my man. Keep up the content. Ty

[@staytuned2L337]

17:23 coffee spitting. HUUUUUU 😂😂 amazing editing and call back lol

[@mgtmoviemaker]

Amazing work as always. I love this theory and how well it is backed up and how you draw parallels to the moon meteor and azor ahai symbolism that is peppered throughout the books.

[@patreilly3184]

livid i missed the premiere

[@DRZCARNATION]

Maybe Valyria was going through a time period where they didn’t take the magic seriously and it became a domino effect. The Targaryen’s could have warned them and another house could have been conspiring?

[@DavidLightbringer]

That’s very possible, and if they ever do a Valyria show that would be a good way to spice up the plot

[@yinakaab8459]

He rescued his family from the doom and created wealth for his family. But his offspring fought against family for power. That is pretty dumb and short sighted. Since so many Targeyarians and Dragons died. They weakened themselves.

[@BubblegumCrash332]

Love your video, get up the great work

[@TheDreamWyrm]

I pray for a glimpse of Winds of Winter, and the KZbin Algorithm shows me only LML.

[@ScrubbyBubbles]

Bruh how do you not have more subs this shit is well thought out, didnt think I could get back into the series after the TV show ending but here we goooo

[@DavidLightbringer]

Thanks so much for saying so :)

[@morganSnow421]

This video was AWESOME!!!

[@Magali_theRecordKeeper]

Love the fancy upgraded channel logo! Also hurray for Monty Python jokes :P

[@iFaFo_0]

I gotta say I fuckin LOVE your intro music. Its EPIC gets me hype every video

[@drayve8590]

Has anyone realized that Jon killing denarys with a blade to her heart is eerily similar to the azor ahai legend?

[@mariokart64toadgoat23]

well he is Azor Ahai right?

[@coheedmorris]

Dragon fire can't melt basalt rock towers. Checkmate. Inside job confirmed.

[@otaviomio2887]

Man, this assassination of the mages must have been akin to Walter White killing all those inmates

[@SoilToSoul]

Yes! Can't wait!

[@onetwothreefourfive12345]

This makes a lot of sense great vid

[@Hatchmatter]

So...we in america are valyrian mages and are controlling Yellowstone caldera? Dope....

[@DavidLightbringer]

You didn't notice the glowing red eyes of all the Yellowstone "Park Rangers?" Total giveaway

[@nymerianan4short314]

Spoilers do u think fthe Targs did it with the gold from Lannister’s buying bright roar they said you could buy an army(or the faceless Men for the price the Lannister’s paid

[@alexb3604]

Rachael , yes LmL has said that in recent streams that the Targs could have sold the Lannisters Brightroar for the funding of the operation (with Lannister gold from the sword purchase) , which certainly is a possibility. But I am sure LmL will clarify further in this vid which I believe premieres tomorrow.

[@DavidLightbringer]

@@alexb3604 you are both correct! And Rachael the stream Alex is talking about is this livestream with Ba'al the Bard where we workshopped the ideas that went into this vid and the Part 2 I will make soon: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mH-9iZSeiq9keMk

[@WarrenEBB]

@@DavidLightbringer didn't you mention in this very video that house Stark got its sword just before the doom of valeria? My first thought was that maybe Aenor got his fortune from selling swords all over westeros. ... or maybe the point is that he just charged more for the lannisters so they were the bulk of the gold that went to faceless men instead of back to valeria? Just made me think that maybe they were plotting how to take over westeros by selling these swords everywhere - family business - which makes it extra cool that Aegon takes all the swords of westeros lords that oppose him and melt them into his thrown - family legacy.

[@matocian_empire8]

@@WarrenEBB wow,, if that was his plan then what aegon did is the most brutally beautiful thing I've heard off

[@markeustace199]

loved that little skit of dany the dreamer and the dooom of valyria👍👍👍👍👍

[@alsharpe7213]

Wow your so right!!

[@Devilburk]

Great video, nice input

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

Which came first, Daenys' dreams or Aenar's schemes? The chicken, or the egg?

[@sj-bg4up]

because its "history" i imagine he told her they should move to invrease wealth, she told him of her prophecy which aligned with his actions, he made the move, told the lords it was for a dream, and got rich, idk if im still convinved he caused the doom,

[@kasperbmathiassen]

I love that you creadit me for the Littlefinger quote, but I actually think I got it from a video on the subject by Sacret Order of Green Hand

[@eric8841]

Watching this AGAIN! Peace and wholeness fam

[@sandmanenters4187]

Great video. If you watch enough of Randall Carlson's videos on symbolism and the understand the principle of the language of the birds, you can find alot of stuff in these incredible books that I think GRRM is using as hints of stuff that happened here in our ancient history. Magic and dragons representing some form of technology, ancient advanced civilizations and transfers of technology leaving behind only traces after some cataclysm destroys them. Passing down of sacred information through 100s of generations. It's really incredible how well planned out and brilliantly written this story is.

[@alexb3604]

Definitely curious to continue this discussion to convince me of this. I do have a few doubts but more so I just think a few more entities were likely involved. Braavos to me can not be ignored, FM were headquartered in Braavos by this time , Braavos were escaped slaves from the Freehold who surely would at some point want revenge , let alone seeing the level of slavery being enacted by the Valyrians. Ntm Braavos had major geo-political motivations here , Braavos were emerging on the world stage in a big way , having accumulated substantial wealth (more than enough to contribute towards paying the FM) and did so literally in the fog away from the Valyrians until fairly recently leading up to The Doom. Braavos also had further global power / influence aspirations and had to be wary that they could only expand so much with Valyria / their dragons around let alone at their peak and that the Valyrians would likely at some point swoop in for Braavos' riches , possibly destroy the city and surely enslave many in the process. For me Braavos can not be left out of the equation. And the Citadel as well , we know they are wary of magical entities like dragons (especially in more recent generations leading up to and through the current ASoIaF) , later on likely at least part instigated The Dance (which resulted in the deaths of many dragons) and from first hand admission very likely played a part in the decline and eventual extinction of the remaining dragons after The Dance. Plus the Citadel could have had outside support an encouragement within Westeros from factions who like the Citadel worried the Freehold would eventually shift their gaze and expansion westward. Valyria were an evil empire who created a lot of enemies along the way with conquest, destruction , genocide , mass slavery , torture , twisted experimentation etc. But in particular Braavos to me seems to be a massive candidate here for involvement and even the Citadel as well. The Targs did have some motivations as well , they were seemingly one of the lowest of the 40 Dragon-lord Houses in Valyria so why not leave to change their fortunes , saw a great opportunity for wealth and power advancement between their dragons and the Velaryon's ships controlling their portion of the Narrow Sea and going from a lowly House in Valyria to the only House in Westeros with dragons must have been appealing ; let alone post The Doom being the only House in the world with dragons remaining. Where I have my doubts is that it seemed the Targs had a good thing going at that time , gaining power and influence in Westeros , controlling sea trade acquiring great wealth in the process and seemingly were not under threat from Valyria and I am not sure I believe in any sort of moral enlightenment or superiority with the Targs playing a major role in their motivations for numerous reasons. I am open to continuing the discussion , with more evidence and support to sway my thinking, not that I am totally against it any way but atm I still feel it was a wider conspiracy / operation beyond only the Targs & the FM and I have a few slight concerns with the Targs feeling motivated and emboldened enough to act how & when they did or a much of moral impetus with the Targs. Though I look forward to getting deeper and deeper in this discussion and weigh everything out.

[@DavidLightbringer]

great points Alex. I think that I generally see the FM, the Ion Bank, and the political powers of Braavos as simpatico; that's why I'm assuming the general motivations of the escaped slaves of Braavos apply to the FM. So we are on the same page there. It's totally possible (as I mentioned in the video) that the FM / Braavos in general had enough motivation to cause the Doom by themselves. But if that was all there was to it, why the passage about the prophecy of casterly Gold causing the Doom? Brightroar in particular is tied to Valyria in so many ways as well. I also agree the maesters are a logical suspect, but don't see any textual clues about their being involved with Brightroar, Casterly Gold, or the Doom. As for Aenar's motives, I will make my full argument in Part 2, but essentially I think there's only 2 ways Aenar willingly participates in the genocide of his entire nation: he's either a complete sociopath the likes of which we've rarely ever seen on earth, or, he saw that Valyria was on track for another 5,000 years of slavery and genocide unless someone with inside knowledge brought them down,. I think it's actually more likely and logical that he was horrified by Valyria (sooner or later some Valyrians WOULD dissent, just as happens everywhere in the real world) than he was a genocidal maniac... because he didn't try to conquer or enslave anyone after he was "the only one left with dragons."

[@alexb3604]

@@DavidLightbringer yeah I mostly agree with your claims / theory tbh , and I am not saying the Targs were not involved , I just happen to think a few factions came together beyond just the Targs and FM. I was not aware you were lumping those Braavosi factions together in this situation but yes the Iron Bank , top of Braavosi power structure and the FM did have a seemingly joint interest against the Valyrians. The FM to me just seem a separate entity to the Braavosi hierarchy being that the FM have their own agenda and M.O. that sometimes intersects with Braavos. The FM it seems of course would be willing to do anything for the right price and being formed under Valyrian slavery in the mines was definitely an added bonus to get one over on the Freehold but I was missing the fact that the Iron Bank and Braavosi power / political structure factored in your T + FM = D . But if they are factored all in together all those Braavosi entities then I am even closer to being fully on board. And I do agree with you GRRM is not going to put "throw away" concepts with Lannister gold linked to The Doom , Brightroar coming into House Lannister just before The Doom. As I am saying I just thought it seemed more a joint venture beyond only the Targs and the FM. The problem I have with Targ morality is a few fold and I just don't think its totally clear. For one , only a generation or so later they not so benevolently put Westeros to the sword or more like to the dragon , conquering the continent with not any sort of claim , giving the lords of the realm the choice of bending the knee or death , of which resulted in a lot of bloodshed and atrocity including Harrenhal , Field of Fire etc. Also , the Targs did have , use and brought over slaves , so I am not so sure they were purely against the practice but they were politically very astute and abandoning the practice to gain favor and acceptance in Westeros could have factored in. Just like adopting a sigil , joining The Faith , occasionally marrying into the Houses of the realm etc. If they continued slavery they would have further emboldened resistance before , during and after the Conquest and limited their political and power opportunities on the continent imo. So the fact they had slaves not that long before they made the trip over to Dragonstone and had political aspirations in Westeros , well done they abandoned slavery but I am not sure it was purely a morality move. Ntm , they were at or near the bottom of the Dragonlord hierarchy in Valyria so there was more upward mobility in Westeros with financial opportunity they seized with the Velaryon's with sea trade and power wise being the only House with Dragons in the immediate area. That being said perhaps not the Targs overall but Aenar himself could have been a woke enlightened guy with wanting to stop Valyrian oppression and atrocity , I just am not sure the behavior of Aegon and subsequent Targs meant that same level of morality continued to near the same degree after Aenar. But it is possible the Targs or as I said more likely just Aenar himself grew horrified with the Freehold overall because over the 5 millennia of their existence they certainly grew into a proper evil empire with destruction , genocide , insane levels of mass slavery , torture , all sorts of twisted experimentation etc. And perhaps the generations after Aenar did not have the exact views he had and when Aegon I saw a power vacuum with no other dragons on Planetos and weak ability to resist them on Westeros somewhat corrupted the once held morality. And of course with the upward mobility and prosperity (financially especially) opportunity for the Targs from leaving Valyria for Westeros has to be factored in also. But with Aenar himself I am definitely open to him being rather woke for his time. And if the Braavosi top brass and the Iron Bank are in together with the FM in your formula then i am very close to being fully on board anyway. With The Citadel though I agree we do not have direct textual evidence with The Doom but I think its not purely coincidental the stories from the main series and companions novels / novellas we have gotten with the maesters likely part instigating the Dance which killed a lot of dragons , and likely poisoned or some form of intervention to wipe out the dragons / line of dragons remaining after the Dance , that its not a massive stretch to think they would have likely tried to take part and contribute towards taking out the biggest , largest most threatening Dragon Empire on Planetos just a couple centuries before the known actions against dragons we know they likely took. Why even throw those asides in there and attribute such actions to the Citadel / maesters for instance , could be to hint they played a part in The Doom. Ntm , the Citadel and Westerosi powers in general had to be wary the Freehold would eventually have western aspirations at some point. And it is fairly clear that most any magical entities like dragons in particular are not in the majority of the Citadel's worldview so I do think its fairly plausible they could have played some part in The Doom. Braavos & the Iron Bank I am nearly certain of their involvement , Citadel I have my suspicions as well and the Targs are def in for a shout they certainly benefited massively from The Doom I am just torn on their exact motivations. Was it purely a power move or was their a morality view at play which with Aenar in particular I can get behind him having a moral impetus. I am just not sure if that collective morality genuinely permeated much beyond Aenar to subsequent Targs , especially with the Conquest not that long after which of course brings in some moral questions along with a lot other questionable immoral behavior from the Targs in the immediate generations after as well.

[@MuireKnight]

@@DavidLightbringer I do find the theory of Aenar paying the FM in order to blown up Valyria fascinating. But considering how hated the Valyrians were a lot of people probably wanted their empire to disappear . Perhaps Aenar found out the FM were planning to blow up Valyria by killing their mages.Or the FM contacted him first. The gold he received out of selling valyrian steel coud have been used to convince the FM to spare him and his family. He also could have provided the FM much needed information how to infiltrate Valyria and who exactly to kill. It would explain why the FM never bothered the Targaryens after the Doom. They owed them a lot.

[@jewelrunner7756]

This was excellent!.. I'd love so bad, to hear what G.R.R.Martin thinks to all this!? lol.. Is it spot on, close at least etc??.. Great effort my guy, you made this video as riveting as an ep of GoT (In it's prime!).. Quite the accomplishment!!.. 😎👌👍

[@AWW8472]

Azor Ahai warged Nisa Nisa. Garth the Green used blood magic to extend his life and empower himself by sacrificing the Children of the Forest.

[@magnuspeacock5857]

I didnt expect the faceless inquisition

[@tarasis2722]

15:32 "this makes alot of sense", whilst showing a still of an open topped sword cast

[@raynmanshorts9275]

I'm about halfway through ASoS and I haven't read any of the other world-building books, but would it be possible for the kindly man to be telling Arya about the _founding_ of the Faceless Men? That is, the escaped slaves that founded their order were the ones that created the Doom in the first place, and this was the first task they undertook?

[@nymerianan4short314]

This video sheds light on what pates alchemist said GOLD FOR IRON . The gold of casterly rock for iron of the valeryion steel sword brightroar .

[@DavidLightbringer]

oh hey that's a good thought!

[@GeminibBorn]

So after watching your videos it got me thinking about the similarities between Beric Dondarrion and Stannis. I may be over thinking this but, Beric Dondarrion is the lightning Lord Stannis is the Lord of Storm's End, they both have a red priest, they both have flaming swords. They both are in a way continuing Ned's fight as Rebels. Dondarrion has been resurrected several times and Stannis Rebellion has been resurrected several times when it seemed dead in the water so ressurrected in a wat, does this mean we can expect a similar fate for Stannis or have I been playing with too much tinfoil.

[@stefiz]

Thanks LmL!

[@Peuonthezone]

All these talk of prophecies and Targaryens actually gets me thinking: Can Targaryens be potential prophetic dreamers, like Starks can be potential wargs? And if so, Were Rhaegar and his melancholy and great taste for prophecies an actual sign that he was indeed a Targaryen gifted with prophetic dreams trying to make some sense out of his own dreams? But also, if this is not the case, and all Targaryen prophetic dreams are just dreams that were manipulated by magic like glasscandles, what would be the intention to mess with Aegon's dreams more than a century after the Doom? Or are those prophetic dreams just petty excuses for senseless violence and domination (like Destiny manifesto)? I mean, if Aegon's dream is also true for the books, prophecies have had very ambiguous consequences for Targaryen: their prophetic dreams have saved them from the doom and lead them to unify Westeros, but also brought their house's most significant losses and downfalls. Could it be that just old excuses and inbreeding were the cause for Targaryen madness and their lost of power? Or Is there a century long conspiracy using Targaryens like tools? Or Maybe, is it just the case that being gifted with prophecies is an actual bigger curse than the gift it seemed to be?

[@SteveOnTheEastCoast]

Great video, sir

[@sj-bg4up]

"glass candle" - they were describing a mobile phone lmao

[@DoVisenya]

Awesome as always, LML. I have a question about FM's views on slavery. They don't really seem to be too much concerned with it imo. As was said, Aenar had his slaves (who maybe became serfs when on Dragonstone). But if they were opposed to slavery, wouldn't they do something about Mereen, Yunkai, etc? Most of the Free Cities also practice slavery. All this means that the Doom was done not because of FM's hate of slavery, but for monetary reasons - thoughts?

[@PaiMeiofthelotusclan]

DoVisenya good point, but think about the faceless men, they aren’t an army, their assassins. Would killing a couple top dogs in Meereen, Astapor, Yunkai, etc really stop slavery? Let’s say you took out the top dogs in all those cities. Wouldn’t some one else just take their place? Isn’t this what happens to Dany in Astapor? They might have even tried but realized they can’t change the way their whole world works with assassinations.

[@PaiMeiofthelotusclan]

But I do agree with you partly, we don’t actually have a lot of evidence that the Faceless Men hate slavery. We know that they hated the Valerians. Slavery itself is more complicated especially in the time period of our story. I Think it was Dario’s explanation that said some slaves want the employment and can have a high quality of live and even some dignity in some cases (some, not all) the Faceless men could of not liked the sacrifices of slaves to the fire more than the concept of slavery in general

[@tashacrawford770]

I completely agree!!!!! I feel it has more to do with money and power instead of moral reasons. I think Daenerys upbringing being poor and on the run is why she’s so against slavery. Her ancestors had money but were no great power, and if they had a hand in the doom they were the it family.

[@damianallen8377]

I agree neither the Faceless Men nor Bravos has done anything to get rid of slavery in Essos, aside from Bravos defeating Pentos but all that did was change the form of slavery Pentos practice and let be real Bravos and the Iron bank without a doubt profits from slavery in Essos.

[@RootzRockBand]

Black stone meteorite sounds very much like the black cube and meteorite that is worshipped in Mecca.

[@fullmentalaltruist2286]

Excellent content

[@tabindamurshed2504]

hey david, i just started following your channel post HoD and really great content. The gold of casterly rock is super interesting to me cos if you think about it- gold of casterly ended valyria and the golden son of casterly ended the rule of the valyrian (circa jaime killing aerys)- i wonder if theres any significance of this casterly vs valyria symbolism on how jon and dany's fate will intwine with tyrion/cersei/jaime/the kids.

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

Did the Targaryens do the Doom? Well no documents show that the royal family had direct knowledge of the plot, but several princes did indirectly fund the conspiracy. Additionally, a member of the Targaryen government did house the Faceless Men upon their arrival in Valyria and help them acquire visas so they could stay in the country. One of these same Faceless Men would be reported to the government after a Dragon Flight Instructor said he trained these men in flying dragons, but none of them were interested in learning how to land the beasts.

[@sophie__ara]

17:26 lol imagine a full series of asoiaf parodies

[@anaiglesias9972]

Great video

[@RobHel]

"I've got the documents, folks"

[@DavidLightbringer]

Maybe my favorite video to make hahah

[@forcesmuggler7667]

Man, this theory makes a lot of sense.

[@DavidLightbringer]

it's one of those ones where I started out thinking it was far fetched tinfoil, and as I researched and thought about it... it makes a ton of sense