Conservative Atheists Don't Exist

[@ailee3145]

There are actually thousands of us in Merica.

[@RealityCheckMag]

Yes, the title is somewhat tongue-in-cheek

[@DucksAndCatnip]

thats hella interesting. good video

[@RealityCheckMag]

Thanks for watching!

[@Bjotten]

It feels like the Dunning-Kruger-effect is doing some pretty heavy lifting here.

[@RealityCheckMag]

How do you mean? Also, if any of my reasoning seems incorrect, I would be interested to hear how. thanks

[@poeadp3735]

Your example of the microchip is only really convincing to people who already believe in God: "I believe in Instagram but not the microchip" doesn't make sense because the microchip is necessitated in the creation of phones which access Instagram. On the other hand the Christian God and the teachings of the Gospel don't actually need to be truely divine or supernatural for people to believe them and form institutions around them. Therefore someone can think that Christianity inspired something they find valuable and still think the truth claims of Christianity (Jesus's divinity, the Virgin birth, the resurrection, the legitimacy of the old testament, etc) are not true. For instance, if tomorrow the people who created Instagram announced their reason and motivation for doing so was some never before heard of folk spirit, that wouldn't mean you'd therefore need to believe in what motivated them to believe in the result. What you are really arguing is that if they are conservatives then they, in practice, have Christian values which may be true in many case. But believing in values doesn't mean you have to, or that it's possible for you, to believe in the God that is said to have supposed them. Beyond this they may also lean conservative for non-explicitly Christian reasons. If they live in the US they may be Republicans because they are weathy and want a lower tax rate... if someone detests immigrants (not saying conservatives do generally) perhaps theyd vote for a conservative who wants to limit immigration, if they hate criminals and feel no forgiveness toward them at all perhaps theyd vote conservative because they want a candidate who is incredibly punitive over rehabilitatative, or wants to expand the death penalty. These aren't exactly Christian motivations, but in the US they are could clearly motivate someone to vote for the conservative party. All and all although i mostly disagree i think you have an interesting idea and i enjoyed watching.

[@RealityCheckMag]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. As to your first point, you seem to be saying that Christian beliefs are only a motivation for creating Western institutions, when I believe that they are more than that. Christian beliefs are metaphysically necessary preconditions for supposing a Christian morality. Also, I agree with the bit about the example, but I think you may misunderstand what I am trying to do. I am not trying to objectively prove the truth claims of Christianity, I am trying to point of the inconsistency with believing in Christian values without also believing in Christian doctrine. So yes, my example fails to logically prove the divine origin/objective truth of Christianity, but it succeeds in pointing out the inconsistency between doctrine and ethics. When you say: "What you are really arguing is that if they are conservatives then they, in practice, have Christian values which may be true in many case. But believing in values doesn't mean you have to, or that it's possible for you, to believe in the God that is said to have supposed them", this is exactly what I'm arguing against. An atheist may be a cultural christian, but they have no way of explaining WHY their ethical beliefs are the way they are. If questioned on the issue, they may say "well because these values are good for people and society", but we can drill deeper: what is goodness? where did you get that idea of what goodness is? and they run into the same issue, hence Hume's is-ought problem. Your second point is very well made. People may vote republican for totally selfish, non-Christian reasons. In this case, I would argue that such a person, while a republican, is not a true conservative, since they do not embody the spirit of conservatism, which I am positing as something like "the desire to conserve". Therefore, the person who wants lower taxes and less immigrants for purely selfish reasons is not a conservative, as their motivations are far from "the desire to conserve". I hope that answers your concerns. I'd be interested to hear what you think

[@poeadp3735]

​​​​@@RealityCheckMag thanks for the reply. I like your argument, and I think conservatives who don't believe in Christianity but believe its doctrines are really an interesting group. There seems to be a rise in them in recent years, with Jordan Peterson being probably the most culturally relevant figure that comes to mind. He seems to not believe in the truth claims I mentioned in my first comment of Christianity, but still believes in the literary and moral value of the texts and the cultural heritage. Now what's interesting is the point you make; how does he know Christian values are good without a God to provide the objectivity for his morality? What is good so to speak? I agree that this is a tough thing for atheists to answer, but the only thing I'd question about the video is that it is in no way unique to conservatives. Atheist liberals for instance also think that things can be classified into good or bad, and classify things as such. Assumedly they come to their political standpoint because their understanding of morality best aligns with liberal thinking... Yet the question is just as present, how can they hold liberal beliefs as to what's good or bad without any sense of morality that could possibly be objective? In the same line of thinking you suggest, I think one could argue you can't be a liberal atheist either. I'm also curious what you'd think about liberal Christians if you ever want to make a follow up video lol

[@RealityCheckMag]

@@poeadp3735 That's right! Great synopsis. Yes, you are correct, the central argument could be applied to liberal atheists as well. The angle I took to point this out would look very different though, since liberals are generally less concerned with conserving. The angle could go something like: "hey liberals, you claim that progress is good, and that you are progressing towards something, but what are you progressing towards? and how do you know that thing is good?" or something like this. The reason I focused on conservatives is because I am a conservative (and I assume the majority of my small audience is as well), and so this video is kind of like a rallying or corrective call to "my people". Although it's also true that it would also be beneficial for a more liberal-minded creator to make a similar video

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

Many institutions created by the church were also present in the east so most of the unique features of the west are related to the Enlightenment.

[@RealityCheckMag]

That's generally true, as many countries have justice systems, marriage and centers of learning, but it seems to me that there are critical differences between the Western versions of these institutions and the Eastern ones, and these differences would have pre-dated the Enlightenment. What would you say are some of the unique features of Western Institutions that arose because of the Enlightenment?

[@nobbyfirefly57]

I don't know how I found this when I don't watch anything remotely related to this topic. Also you look like that guy from Young Sheldon, the one that dropped the bible on the floor.

[@RealityCheckMag]

If only I had the accent....