Envy | ContraPoints

[@ContraPoints]

🧿👄🧿

[@Titanicsubmarine]

Envy - Nicki Minaj Also YESSS for Peppermint the drag queen and her voiceovers

[@Vivivofi]

envy me harder, father

[@space0ctopus647]

COOOOOOOOOOOM

[@cdet3666]

its over. its done.

[@Putri-iu4bc]

YESS now get some sleep please queen

[@mathis3440]

I have heard men say “help I’m being devoured” during sex, but to be fair I am a giant praying mantis who learned how to type

[@johnnyguillotine1673]

Circle of life is beautiful

[@caffelino9687]

yes i've also seen it in furry vore art

[@johnjjohningtoniii2439]

I got to admit it's not great, but I didn't die alone as was predicted.

[@XianHaos]

I'm a cluster of hive-minded spiders in a human skinsuit and same.

[@octomar1815]

Homestuck

[@moretyquira]

Rather than believing that she's on a set or in her house, I choose to believe that Natalie has actually discovered the way to bring us into her subconscious

[@ps-ny7rl]

wouldn’t be surprised if it was her house! Baltimore has a lot of beautifully preserved architecture

[@indigothecat]

Are we more than our thoughts?

[@finngswan3732]

Or the house is magical and is constantly shifting. She's either manipulating it or just going with the flow to spite the house, lol.

[@ewwpoorpeople5684]

I just assumed she had like some Coraline style hidden section of her house.

[@JohnTheMod1]

She’s a Time Lord and her house is a TARDIS, bigger on the inside and full of infinite rooms.

[@Simone_Subtle_Salt]

In Hmong culture it is bad manners to tell someone their baby is cute, because if you do they believe a witch will overhear you and try to steal the baby. So it's customary to tell people they have ugly babies. Never thought about it before, but there sounds like a deep cultural understanding of envy.

[@asliuf]

woah, fascinating! thank you for sharing this

[@sweetdaydreamer8868]

In the Balkans it's common, especially for older women, to tell babies something like " aww, look how ugly you are " as not to curse/hex them.

[@thomaswilson9925]

Same in India

[@gargamellenoir8460]

So can I do that in western culture and say it's to protect them from the evil eye? I just don't think human babies look that good...

[@malum9478]

oops. we had/have a lot of hmong people in the city i grew up in up in michigan, and a family we were friends with had a little girl i said was cute all the time. ... oh well i'm sure she's probably fine.

[@barfchugger]

This is your best work yet. I keep coming back to it. Maybe the things you're presenting aren't groundbreaking in your circle, being educated and all, but to someone like me who isn't in education, who only has ideas and free audiobooks, this is amazing insight. Every time I rewatch this, a new piece is added to a bigger puzzle I've cobbled together with what I have.

[@helpyourcattodrive]

Yup, I come from a rough background and my mom was nuts but she meant well so I’m not that educated I am educated but not the way Natalie is and I LOVE it.

[@nellfromhell7192]

Keep at it bb

[@spurgear4]

I feel with you, Grew up a boy on a dirt road and drempt of being an auto body repair tech. Now I'm a woman and a pilot / Mechanic who is trying to fill in the academic void.

[@Bleppity]

@@spurgear4amazing character arc! Want to know what will happen next!

[@esssttt]

Fun fact: I never was allowed to watch Spongebob because it was dumb and bad taste according to my mother. I was however allowed to watch Italian films about drug abuse and incest at thirteen, back when Pokemon was still “too violent”. In my last therapy session I observed how most of our sessions consisted of getting rid of the bitter, envious lense through which my mother tought me to see. It was the squidwardian gaze all along..

[@katherinalastname7077]

i'm very sorry to say but that's a beautiful way to use the term 'squidwardian'

[@esssttt]

@@katherinalastname7077 one’s gotta name and face the internalized squidwardian maternal gaze when one sees it. How is She though?

[@bloomingteratoma]

holy shit same my mom HATED spongebob and courage the cowardly dog. she did find pokemon cute but i hated it cause i didn't like the art style lmao

[@TheKingsPride]

If your mom is anything like my dad was, she probably found it really, really annoying

[@ernestoagapitogarcesconyad1710]

my mom also didn't let me watch spongebob because it would "make me stupid". jokes on you mom i'm stupid anyways

[@JesseColton]

Okay I know it's fun to joke around in the comments but I just want to say, this video feels like SUCH a fantastic combination of ALL the topics you've covered over the past three years. Incels, trans liberation, beauty, justice, aesthetics, opulence, all these concepts are touched upon and woven together to enhance the point you're making about envy. This is really, really beautifully crafted work, thank you for this Natalie ❤️

[@aghadlarhen9397]

Like, when she was just about done talking about Marie Antoinette, my mind briefly recognized that this Envy topic gave me similar vibes to the "Justice- part 1" video and how I really wished we'd get it. *Cue Fan-opening transition to Natalie dressed as a Supreme Court Justice in cat ears* I screamed. I screamed like I was watching the climax of the Infinity Saga. Maybe even moreso.

[@ScorpionViper1001]

@@aghadlarhen9397 I will forgive all of Biden's Centrist clownry if he gives us Supreme Court Justice Nyatalie Wynn.

[@annasin90]

You’re so right! Thanks for pointing this out. Absolutely loved the video.

[@sonicdoor9955]

Yessss!!!

[@xanatax1844]

I feel like, in the last few years we’ve seen such a change in this channel, and in Natalie … each new video is another step along the journey. 🤷‍♀️ idk where where we’re going to end up, but … it’s gotten interesting, for sure! 💜

[@hbomberguy]

Jealous of how short you managed to make this

[@Tome281]

I was thinking of your Pathologic video when reading her tweets complaining that the video is 2 hours long.

[@echoticz9225]

it’s ok, give us the long videos

Ojalá mis vídeos fueran tan largos y buenos como los vuestros, pura envidia

[@BrownDieselWagon]

WHERE'S MY RWBY PART 2 VIDEO? HMMMM HAROLD?

[@Enbyvalent]

I have watched your Pathologic video at least 4 times. If brevity is the soul of wit, I say witlessness is underrated

[@bluewin13]

Watching this felt like somebody was opening all the curtains in a room full of my darkest, hidden thoughts, forcing me to see all of them in the light. It was sobering to admit my own guilt, and there were times when I was shocked at how she described my experiences verbatim. But somehow, it was comforting. This is the first video I’ve ever watched from her, and yet she felt like a friend or a long-known therapist guiding me through a session of intense introspection. I felt safe. I don’t know how else to describe it

[@mimi_lulu9121]

I actually deeply disagree with this video. Envy is a a natural human emotion that has a reason for existing just like any other “negative” emotion like fear or melancholy. Just because a moral argument can be traced back to envy, it doesn’t make that moral argument any less valid. Instead of framing things as, “your moral high horse is actually just envy at its core,” I see it as “something is morally wrong with this situation, and envy is a symptom that arises from it.” For the examples like not-like-other-girls or incels, the moral argument is disingenuous. But in other cases like trying to be anti racist and feminist or not liking billionaire excess, there is definitely a moral problem, and just because envy *might* be involved it doesn’t make those situations comparable to incels etc. at all. So simplistic.

[@kedabro1957]

You are describing ... ... Feeling known instead of alone.

[@pedrogheventer2566]

@@mimi_lulu9121 1:21:58

[@moonstaff1234]

@@mimi_lulu9121 idk why you chose to write this essay in reponse to the above comment, but contrapoints literally makes the same point you're talking about towards the end of the video? she literally says verbatim she disagrees with the notion that everything is solely derived from envy....

[@mitsukikosan]

Me too. For me, it helped me understand a falling out with a friend… who in retrospect does the thing of (56:48) turning feelings of envy into a sense of moral superiority. He got angry at me over something he’s done many times before, and I couldnt figure out what was causing his disproportionate reaction (aka cutting me off altogether)

[@zenleeparadise]

At about 47 minutes in Natalie says “isn’t rationality itself oftentimes just an attempt to make our feelings contagious?” And I think it’s the most profound and interesting observation she’s ever made on this channel.

[@corcanish]

Glad someone else took a strong note of that! Thought I was crazy when it kept echoing inside my mind for the rest of the vid

[@LucGendrot]

If you like that concept, then Vsauce's recent video "The Future of Reasoning" explores it in-depth, and he references the book "The Enigma of Reason" by Dan Sperber and Hugo Mercier, himself.

[@Vivivofi]

rationality is oftentimes an attempt to make our feelings easier to spread? can someone go into a bit of detail on how so? i don’t fully get it to be honest

[@JLittleBass]

@@Vivivofi I think basically we have "gut reactions" or instinctive feelings about things, and then we look for reasons that justify why we feel that way.

[@Vivivofi]

@@JLittleBass oh yeah that’s definitely a thing haha, yeah that makes sense to me but i guess it’s just the wording of the quote that’s throwing me off haha

[@down-to-earth-mystery-school]

My husband and I recently immigrated to Mexico and the fear of envy is high here. You can walk down the street, all the buildings are dilapidated and then you go inside and are blown away by how beautiful the homes, restaurants and hotels are….

[@lifenote1943]

Usually people migrate OUT of Mexico......

[@alejandramoreno6625]

​@@lifenote1943we have universal healthcare, maternity leave, sick leave and free university. No wonder Americans are moving to Mexico.

[@julioalbertoherrera1339]

​@@lifenote1943Some people do, it depends on the conditions. Which is the condition to migrate? When you have need of money, to support several children, and having little studies.

[@julianrodolfo]

@@lifenote1943only the people that are struggling live there countries, and that’s usually the uneducated sector of the population.

[@lifenote1943]

I mean you also got an insane level of organised crime running rampant.@@alejandramoreno6625

[@sheeky2084]

At the beginning of this video I felt such a horrible anxiety as I realized you were addressing the very emotions I've spent so long trying to avoid dwelling on and unpacking. But by the end of it I could feel myself starting to forgive my own heart so thanks for that

[@ScottEltringhamMusic]

YOURE NOT ALONE - Ziggy Stardust, Rock N Roll Suicide I feel the same way and I pray we can overcome it with our sincere desire to be better people. Almost creepy how well she highlighted these universal experiences, she is blessed with an amazing creativity.

[@MostlyCloudy]

Truth!

[@idin.aazami]

Sending you good vibes! I too had a similar experience when I watched this amazing video

[@Th0tsandprayers]

I literally put off watching this after seeing the intro for the exact same reason… sending you the best vibes love 💖

[@nefariousnilbog]

I cannot deny I have fought these feelings and continue to on a day to day basis.

[@dificulttocure]

"Moral Superiority often being the refuge of people with nothing better to feel superior about". Woah, you hit the nail in the head so hard with that one!

[@ysabelv6161]

Watching “The Desire for Mommy’s Milk” section while breastfeeding was an experience.

[@tessarae9127]

Aryan Pandey 😰🥶

[@ysabelv6161]

@@aryanpandey7284 Lol I knew it was only a matter of time before someone made this kind of joke.

[@acarter9806]

So far we have Lust (Incels), Greed (Capitalism 1 and 2), Pride (Opulence), Wrath (Canceling), and now Envy. We gotta get those last two videos on Sloth and Gluttony.

[@klisterklister2367]

and then we can move on to the four horsemen of the apocalypse

[@Jabranalibabry]

She already made a video on fat shaming that touches the themes of overweight people being treated as gluttonous

[@mikek9297]

Gluttony is the hard part. Sloth will just be about... sloths.

[@itamargal-yam5771]

the seven deadly catgirls uwu

[@nabe___99]

Omg I never realized this theme in her videos what the hell

[@myrnalalla9876]

As a transmasc who loves your videos, I've started referring to myself as a "biological female" which confuses absolutely everyone around me

[@waytoobiased]

based as hell

[@vaylinraykillian2773]

king behaviour

[@TheMindIlluminated]

Transmasc? Are you just trying to deliberately be as ridiculous as possible by attaching labels to yourself that you think define your entire personality as someone superficially unique?

[@TheMindIlluminated]

@SparkSparkle nah my comment wasn’t deleted, I just edited out a sentence that I felt wasn’t relevant and was inaccurate. So tell me what you want, what you really really want.

[@beckyginger3432]

​@sparksparkleomg please keep spamming transphobia with spice girls lyrics forever its perfect

[@spriddlez]

I understand we are supposed to be discussing her very thoughtful, intellectual essay on envy but I can't get over her production value. The sets! The costumes! Magnifique!

[@federico7367]

It's so dense and insightful

[@sharp7j]

It blows my mind!

[@MA-yu2ss]

That’s why her videos take quite a while to come out, the production value is amazing

[@noeestrada7910]

Who cares about thinking! It looks pretty , lets just stare at It until the world is no more UwU

[@Zivudemo]

oui oui mon quatre-vingt brioche

[@avery9122]

the "feminist black pill" was an analysis i didn't know i needed. a couple months ago i tried to explain to a friend why "name three trustworthy straight men, you can't" type content is so tiresome to me, and i had trouble articulating it. i settled on just saying it felt unproductive and needlessly negative, but you've hit the nail for me. thank you, nat.

[@chiefpurrfect8389]

I've gotten so much shit in feminist spaces for saying this exact thing. On one hand I sympathize with the hurt, trauma and frustration these kind of takes come from, on the other we (as in, feminists) need to collectively understand that venting is really all this is. It's not an intellectual argument, it's not advocating for anyone or anything. It's not feminism. But when it masquerades itself as such I genuinely believe it hurts the movement; and unfortunately that particular brand of feminism is fairly normalized (at least on KZbin, I don’t frequent other platforms enough to confidently say what the lay of the land is beyond that). And don't get me wrong, there's a time and place for venting too but we should always keep in mind that it's not activism, it's not a competent strategy on a political level and that- on an individual level- venting can be very irresponsible and even abusive if it's not aware of and honest with what it is. There are several female creators who make videos about social issues whose content I otherwise liked but eventually stopped watching because I got worn down by the underlying resentment under their takes where it pertained to men, all while they served them to their audience as feminism to numerous “omg kween yaaas” responses. I acutely remember this one woman who vehemently refused to date short men and likened dating them to bestiality in a semi-joking fashion (operative word: semi. When women in the comment section inevitably went "leave our fun-sized boyfriends alone, they didn’t hurt nobody” she was like "hey, I mean if you are into *~that~* sort of thing and you are happy with it, you do you~ couldn’t be me though~”) all while so much of her content is about how dehumanizing women's beauty standards are and how much it sucks that society judges women's worth based on their physical appearance. *in Natalie's voice* "if I can't live my life without society constantly judging me for my physical appearance.... *then no one can."* *also* "patriarchal beauty standards are bad, but only for me!" lmao Like girl. Are you even listening to yourself? You don't fight shitty women's beauty standards by endorsing shitty men's beauty standards. Misandry is not the antidote to misogyny. When will you learn that two wrongs do not make one right. What you are doing is enacting some sort of unimaginative eye-for-an-eye kind of revenge under the pretense of activism and I don't trust a person who is clearly more preoccupied with trying to make men have an equally bad time than to alleviate female suffering to advocate for me as a woman. Women. Besties. Gal pals. If you need to vent about the shitty experiences you have with men then fine- I guarantee there's plenty of material to work with and you have every right to do it. Call up a friend, call up several, do it privately. If you have a platform and fancy yourself an activist however, do not impose your personal frustrations on your audience- they are neither your therapists nor your friends. Resentment that pretends to be activism isn't lifting anyone up.

[@katarinav9683]

can someone please put the time stamp she talks about this? it flew over my head

[@pedrogheventer2566]

@@katarinav9683 43:28

[@Yuyuhh271]

@@chiefpurrfect8389 The response to this type of thinking from said feminists is usually: that’s the oppressors getting into your head. Men don’t want you to hate or resent them as part of your feminism because that hurts them and makes our activism more potent. In the words of radical feminist, borderline TERF Robin Morgan “I feel that man hating is a valid political act”. For a while, I used to be stuck at this counter argument because it sounded very convincing. It would make sense for the oppressor to want to neuter feelings of resentment in the oppressed so that at the very least, if they lost power, at least there wouldn’t be a bloody revolution with them as the chopping block and the head in the basket. It wasn’t until I watched this video and truly understood the nature of envy, something I hadn’t seriously considered as a pervasive and secretly dominant driving force in our lives, that I realized what a revolution and that man hating would entail. Envy, as Natalie said, is destructive and subjective, and thus is not guarenteed to end at the destruction of a perceived oppressor. Some of the most virulent man haters amongst radical feminists became TERFS, and probably because that envy extended to them despising trans women. “They enjoy all this male privilege, the privilege we as radical feminist women wish we could be close to an inch to, and then they throw it all away to be…like us? And just get to call themselves women after all this time? After all they (and by they, I mean men) have done to us?!?” That kind of resentment common in extreme misandry then spills into the oppression of other marginalized groups, especially transwomen and more recently amongst homophobic women - gay men. While envy in the form of misandry is destructive, and would most likely destroy a male misogynist, it also destroys other women and marginalized groups, and you would have to be the type of feminist who is dedicated solely to destroying men than benefitting women to subscribe to that kind of envy. There is still a way to hold misogynistic men accountable as Natalie says through that Dr.King quote, power using justice to carry out the demands of love, A.K.A, holding those men accountable. But a lot of “ironic misandry” reeks of that destructive envy, and unfortunately ends up employing much of patriarchal malpractice (engaging in the same biological essentialism “men are sex obsessed monsters” “men can’t cry, hence male tears mug”) just to spite men at the expense of everyone else. Women who treat sex as a commodity when their male partners don’t do so just to spite men and hold power over them as sexual gatekeepers are willing to contribute to the over arching rape culture, which fundamentally sees sex as a bought and sold commodity, if they can spite some men in the process. There are a ton of other examples of women engaging in ironic misandry or old patriarchal ideals that are harmful to men and women just to spite men out of envy, and while this is a perfectly understandable trauma response, it is a very dangerous political tool, as is all envy. There has to be a way to hold oppressors accountable that doesn’t involve underlying envy, and I think Natalie did a great job opening up that conversation towards the end of her video. I really want to see other video essayists, specifically feminist video essayists, expand on this topic of envy in their activism and social circles, because I think this video has sort of awakened a few painful truths in leftist political circles that we largely accused conservatives and neoliberals of heaping onto us without merit.

[@avery9122]

@@katarinav9683 also around 1:40:10 :)

[@edumedicina]

In my opinion, Natalie has managed to conquer the pinnacle of information transmission. Educating is not an easy task. Students get easily distracted when classes are condensed into hard theory without everyday examples with which you can identify. However, Natalie manages to keep you entertained and focused for the two hours of the video! Bringing up SpongeBob or trying to catch a toy dressed as a cat woman are just a few of the many brilliant executions that allowed me to concentrate when I began to not understand the theory of her arguments. I really want techniques like these to be implemented in education systems, especially Universities and specifically in Medical School.

[@bigbyrdballin]

if my teachers don't start wearing cat ears and lounging naked in rose petal tubs while educating me on the moral ambiguity of life im not going back to school.

[@sunongral5605]

Is it genuinely too much to ask? Why are we generally keeping entertainment separed from utility? Are we taping into the future by wondering that? I like to think we are.

[@ZacharyFinch]

@@sunongral5605 real talk? It might be. Making this one video was a huge undertaking. Im not sure if it’s a reasonable expectation for teachers to be so sociologically analytical, psychologically literate, and emotionally articulate all the time? It’s crazy cool that we get to live in a world with Nat in it, a world where her work can be immortalized and accessed by folks from all over the world for years to come. But how long will her analysis remain relevant with the times? Are we greedy to expect geniuses like her to selflessly and continuously keep this immaculately constructed, beautifully educational dialogue running indefinitely? Idk maybe. Nat deserves the right to step away if she wishes. But suppose she does? Her shoes will not go so easily filled.

[@guffaw1711]

True. I think there's a fine line that when crossed the spectacle of the theatrical play becomes a distraction that weighs the actual information down, making it hard to follow the actual points. But luckily Natalie is one of the few (or the one and only amongst the few who do this kind of thing) KZbinrs who manages to not cross that line and keep it in an artful balance.

[@KuLaydMahn]

I would love to see a college professor start chasing a cat toy mid-sentence.

[@leiasleeping1282]

I used to envy my best friend a lot and I straight up told her that. I’m so grateful she still comfortable being my friend.

[@alifasaurus4521]

I'm still struggling with this problem for years. How do u cope with it?

[@leiasleeping1282]

@@alifasaurus4521 For me I think being honest and talking with my friend about this actually helped a lot. We were both only teenagers back then and had no emotional boundaries lol. It lessened the guilt and shame I felt towards my own envy and prevented it from becoming a vicious cycle that would be messier than it already was. Another thing is just with time I gradually realized that regardless of the miserable feeling I often have, I still love my friend, and I do wish that she gets all the best things in the world, even if I may not be able to get the same. I don’t know if this is helpful cuz it’s just my personal journey, but hope you feel better☺️

[@baguettegott3409]

@@leiasleeping1282 I have the same problem, and I also just told her, but it is NOT getting better in the slightest. And I'm not sure how it ever could get better. She copied my dream as a teenager - when people asked what I wanted to be, I said an astrophysicist, because that had been my dream and my passion since kindergarten. She never knew what to say, so eventually she started just saying what I said. Now she is in the process of finishing her university degree in it, extremely successful, perfect relationship, skinny and beautiful, and I'm gonna drop out because I can't do it and I'm just getting fatter and lonelier. How can I not forever hate her?

[@77C928]

@@baguettegott3409 oh my god that sounds so awful icl, i would resent her for it cause its like she stole what you were supposed to be,,, but then i feel that resentment would be unproductive and make you just fester

[@lilylime77]

@@baguettegott3409 I'm going to be honest with you, I've never been in your exact situation, but I do understand the feeling of failure. Similarily to you, I've always told people I wanted to be a physicist, I had perfect grades until my mental health took a toll on me and I almost lost a year of high school. I don't recognize myself anymore, I am ashamed of what I've becomed and I resent my past self for fxcking up so much lmao. I see why you might resent her, it's as if she stole a part of your identity and is living the life you were supposed to live. But hasn't she taken enough from you? Are you going to let the thought of her living the life you desire, take away the life you have now? My advise for you is to reflect; reflect on your life from the earliest memory to now, and ask yourself, what has brought me here? Try to identify the patterns, and to not blame yourself for what was out of your control. From then, try to think about your future, realistically, what do you want to do from now on? And, how will you do it? Also, writing your feelings down helps more than you might think, it's like free therapy just that you don't really have an outsider's pov of what happened, nor a guide to ask the right questions. I really hope you are able to fulfill your goals, and remember that everybody has a right for a new begining. Even if things don't go exactly as we hope, everything might be worth it in the end, that's what I tell myself at least. I hope you have a nice day

[@kooky_44]

I'm having a really bad depressive episode (read: life) and this made me smile, even laugh out loud. So thank you so much Natalie, for all your energy, time and effort you put into your videos.

[@Stret173]

well to me it did the opposite: unveiled some shameful unspoken back-mind treaties between some repressed feelings and thoughts that sprung me into a fit of some neurotic symptoms that i didnt had for months. sht, im deeply sunk into not saying yes to life and tho it was and is a bit hurtful but i guess its exactly that "you cant learn without discomfort" moments and i thank nat, this video progressed me, and its somewhat alleviating to know it also did the opposite cos i feel for you

[@SLAUGHTERAMA]

Hope you’re feeling better, gorg.

[@Stret173]

@@SLAUGHTERAMA slowly but not surely, will look for help. tnx

[@Blahcub]

Depression was so 2019 sistwr

[@fehzorz]

"Human nature is a toxic person" Yet again, Contrapoints drops a killer line that belongs in a quote book, but she's already moved on. I'm in awe

[@heraldofoblivion499]

Half of what she says follows from being a well adjusted person and going to high-school. If this is deep to you then you're probably 15 years behind the curve

[@fehzorz]

@@heraldofoblivion499 distilling it into a few words like that is a skill

[@dariapack8906]

"You're telling me a straight woman who knows the difference between magenta and mauve is going to date a straight man who thinks it's gay to wash his underwear and that's just gonna work out fine?" Bwahahahaha! I can't breathe!

[@handinlovablehand]

@@annefagit3305 there are better hobbies than trying to piss people off in comment sections i promise

[@pedropalma2778]

It's kind of sad you typed this out, I thought this was a bot but you actually replied the comment even if it's incoherent. I hope you find better things to do than lurk about and try to pick the stupidest fights online. If anyone other than him reads this, don't be stupid and argue.

[@rroes7319]

I've always related to "envy" whenever I was asked what 7 deadly sin am I. I'm physically disabled, autistic, and trans. I have a lot to want. I was angry at other kids for being able to skip.

[@RedSpade37]

I am a lot like you, but for me, I've found comfort in "New Nihilism". I know that's a hell of a thing to just chime in and say, but it takes a lot of the edge off, for me. That, and lots of substances. I beg for death.

[@JericaJeffrey-o4k]

its good you point out the seven deadly sins since this video is full of christian morality and status quo garbage about how invalid class struggle is. 'its just envy'

[@baintreachas]

@@JericaJeffrey-o4kthe video that says that envy is not, as Freud says, the main reason for social justice struggles- that envy is just as if not more influential in oppressive bigotries and from the more to less powerful (envy of welfare queens, illegal immigrants, middle class to lower class)? and… “Christian morality”? I mean, that’s without saying influential from someone trained in “Western” philosophy… but this video also relies on (from the top of my head) at least 2 Jewish (Freud and Dworkin) perspectives and the Arabic concept of the evil eye… to be fair, neither of these things make it less true that it could be relying on Christian morality (both those Jewish thinkers were in Christian contexts, Arabic =/= non-Christian but this is a generally Arabic and therefore obviously at least as influenced by Islam). But even so… be real, are you only just in the beginning of the video (the only part that IMO supports such a claim) or just trolling?

[@Kidomaru222]

@@baintreachas Unfortunately, i do have to agree that this video is quite a bit too enthousiastic about the idea that egalitarianism is just hidden resentment. With the implication that it is therefore even more sinister than open resentment. The part about Nietzsche was particularly hard to watch. You CAN tape a small section about how "some people care about other people sometimes", but after a 20min fangirling session of Nietzsche it rings kind of hollow.

[@baintreachas]

@@Kidomaru222 I honestly don’t get how you could walk away with that, tho I’m sure I’m missing something. That concept is basically just at the Freud part, and even the criticism of various egalitarian movements/groups (like the feminist infighting part) specifically mostly has nothing to do with it. Of course you could say “well sometimes critique of peers w higher social status is legitimate and a justified manifestation of an egalitarian impulse” but sometimes it’s not. This video is obviously about the latter, and I think it’s fine to do an artistic examination of that without adding constant disclaimers I don’t see the issue w the Nietzche part personally, but maybe I don’t know enough about the meta/context around Nietzche to get what’s so off putting about it (I’ve read him and about him but from a very different angle/field of study in mind). I’d be interested to hear more about it

[@Dumpknoedel]

I love this video not only because it's visually appealing and educational but mainly because... it seems like Natalie is having fun again. She seems so happy to be making this video. I hope I'm right. I hope she's happy.

[@JosetheDopeLPs]

Same. Our queen deserves nothing but happiness ❤️👸

[@bibliophilecb]

Right? This seems like a return to form in the best way. Just Natalie chatting about philosophy in gorgeous outfits.

[@komomn]

Peobably because this isn't a sad topic like Transphobia, Voting or Racism.

[@nystria_]

I hope she's happy too.

[@mcosmos-h2w]

same

[@rashimohan]

"Isn't rationality itself an attempt to make our feelings more contagious?" what a fucking line. and what a fucking video. easily the best part of my month

[@thulyblu5486]

I don't really understand that sentiment. Rationality implies a certain distance towards feelings, so how could it make feelings more contagious?

[@jayburgin2303]

@@thulyblu5486 Yeah, but framed in the way Contra defined it, rationality is used to logically lead others to the same emotional conclusions you've already arrived at.

[@thulyblu5486]

@@jayburgin2303 OK that makes sense, thank you. Now I need time to consider whether that's actually the case or not. Hmm... maybe? ... but if you could reason other people into whatever emotional state you have, can that really be called rationality, or is it emotional manipulation disguised as rationality? I guess postmodernists who deny the existence of objective reality wouldn't see the difference. (But the claim that there is no objective reality is itself a claim about objective reality, so postmodernism is self-contradictory, but they don't care because they don't believe in consistency)

[@bognome5374]

@@thulyblu5486 Look up the argumentative theory of reason, an evolutionary pychology explanation for the origin of rationality. I'll synthesise it here. People's intuitions are somewhat good at leading them to a correct answer - that's what they were selected for, after all. Conceptual puzzles are quite rare in the wild, as it happens. However, cooperation is one of the key selective pressure human face in their life. You need others not to impede on what your intuitions want. How do you convince them to? Well, you _post hoc_ reason your way to the conclusion. Rationality is used to logically lead other to your intuitive/emotional conclusions. AND rationality is about detecting wether the other people's intuitions are in your favour (evolutionary speaking). That's why we have decent 'bullshit' detector mechanisms and are able to detect most glaring fallacies. Even though the exact reason why they're fallacious is often lost on us. (So I'd say Natalie is right about this one, no matter what you think postmodernism is.) Reason also serves to solve puzzles in a group. How so? Well, each person intuitively wants to defend 'one side' of the aisle: that's what we call confirmation bias. The use of this bias is to cut the reasoning labor into pieces, so that each 'specialist' is entirely devoted to finding the best arguments in favour of each solution. Using your brain is costly, caloricaly speaking. You might as well share the cost and limit the number of people doing the same task, when one would suffice. For a development of the empirical predictions and the theoretical arguments in favour of this theory, I'll let you read this from your favorite university library: www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/abs/why-do-humans-reason-arguments-for-an-argumentative-theory/53E3F3180014E80E8BE9FB7A2DD44049

[@gabyrivera2859]

@@thulyblu5486 i don’t think she means to suggest that all rationality is the aim to lead people to a desired emotional conclusion, but that in cases of envy being sublimated to something else, people often resort to rationalizing/explaining their feelings as if they’re not coming from an emotional place to begin with. So it’s more palatable than just admitting to the true root of their contempt.

[@jennalindsey615]

As an insecure lesbian about to go to a women’s college, this video couldn’t have come at a better time. I’ve been specifically anxious about the envy and self loathing that will come from being around so many beautiful and talented people, compounded with undoubtedly desiring many of them. Hopefully awareness will do me some good. Beautiful and hilarious work as always, ily ❤️

[@operatoremma4843]

Whenever I feel insecure/envious I remind myself that we're all just people. And even the most physically attractive people can have problems I can't even imagine. We are all equal. We are all beautiful.

[@feelingveryattackedrn5750]

Its all we can do to just make ourselves content, and awareness of the human condition certainly helps. Also youre unlike anyone else: whether thats for better or for worse is in the eye of the beholder so just find people that vibe

[@pattheplanter]

You will almost certainly be envied and desired by somebody. I hope you find out who it is.

[@thulyblu5486]

Maybe because of awareness you'll sublimate your envy not against others but against yourself as described by Natalie at 1:19:17 ... after all, envy and human nature are said to be kind of unstoppable, can't be completely repressed... so where will you funnel this emotion to?

[@miketrotman9720]

If it's Smith (or Mount Holyoke), enjoy the Valley, Jenna, and don't doubt for a second you're as beautiful and talented and desirable as any woman on campus. Thrive.

[@RolyWestYT]

I think this is quite possibly my favourite one you’ve done! So worth the wait xx

[@SuperDaveP270]

I was going to make pretty much the exact same comment. This was fantastic through and through.

[@IbraheemM98]

@@SuperDaveP270 I scrolled looking for comment like this to support lol

[@opinion4755]

It was good! And relatablly centrists too!

[@corvidox9137]

Same!

[@chloeb5630]

Hi Roly ! I didn't know that you watch Natalie ! Love your videos :)

[@quoncerned3967]

I watch this video every year bc it really does speak to me on such a deep level. I don’t know why, but envy has been something I have struggled with my entire life. Envy, not jealousy. I wished for the downfall and utter annihilation of people I saw as better than me. This deep dive has honestly single handedly made me more aware of how destructive that dark desire was to my mental health.

[@Nowhy]

Good that you share that.. would help a lot of people that don't recognize that one can't fight nihilism...

[@phmfthacim]

this has me thinking about how alienated rich people so often envy the cultural experiences of people with less socioeconomic privilege. then they go about trying to emulate those experiences by buying them or acting them out or whatever, but it doesn't fill the holes in their hearts which are actually caused by that fundamental alienation of socioeconomic stratification

[@sydt7104]

Kind of how like the Uber rich from the past would play act as poor farmers. Marie Antoinette had her own model village built so she could play around in it. They wanted to have the experience without putting in any hardship or risk.

[@ervinpepper]

This is my favourite Pulp song

[@JM-mh1pp]

@Kevin Cobb Okay but how is having your own village to play being farmer different from millions of people playing Call of Duty? Like...do they want to be actual soldiers? Hell no. They want to feel the thrill without moral weight and bodily dangers. The same with her, she wanted to play being a farm girl, not to actually be a farm girl.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

And it's been around forever. Marie Antoinette used to LARP as a poor milkmaid centuries before cottagecore became a thing.

[@AnnaKin]

YES! I was just wondering this the other day. "Why do rich kids/people dress so trashy?" I can spot a rich kid a mile away. But the question is "why?" Why do you do this? To fit in? To be relatable? To appropriate a lower classes' woes for a rags-to-riches, manufactured backstory?

[@liesjeeer]

I'm constantly amazed at Natalie's ability to put these really common but also under-explored phenomena into such clear words,, while also being entertaining and funny and insightful for almost two hours without my attention waning for a single second ♡♡

[@thebestplanetisearth6018]

So well said!

[@loverdeadly6128]

I’ve listened to this at work so many time I’ve become convinced it’s one of those works that captures an essential part of the time it was made. I sincerely hope this video essay makes it into, like, “History of the 21st Century” or something.

[@flanger001]

I sincerely want everyone I know to watch this over and over until they understand. I don't think it's possible for me to put an exact marker on anything I've ever watched that has changed my life and how I think more than this one. I love this video so much.

[@BestVillainEver]

"Isn't rationality itself often simply the attempt to make our feelings contagious?" Literally made me shout 😳

[@noemiv8248]

It’s now on a post-it note above my bed

[@1980rlquinn]

I'm quite certain that an unconscious realization of this contributed to the mass exodus from the New Atheists movement (post the anti-feminism shit).

[@Robersora]

Contra singlehandedly opened my eyes, where a lot of that bewildering passive aggressive bitterness online comes from.

[@idin.aazami]

Same!!

[@serenity6831]

Same here, it's very prevalent, and the immediate justifications for such behavior tend to default to some version of "they didn't read the room"

[@applecrave1097]

Pretty much

[@atomicchicken4453]

This video deadass made me realize how much ive been letting my life be controlled by envy and pride. It has been quite a humbling realization

[@ciaraloch4107]

"Don't say no to getting older, say yes to being a MILF" Mfw I begin transitioning in part to avoid becoming a resentful, bitter spoiled egg. That was a very good video exploring the nature of envy and how it can be the propagating factor of resentment and self destructive posturing or, when properly utilized and managed, the catalyst of meaningful changes. This was very much worth the wait. Also, holy crap, you gave us a feature film. Keep being amazing and please take care of yourself. Thank you Contra.

[@hambone.fakenamington]

You go so hard, Natalie, it’s astounding every time but so far this video’s production quality is truly off the charts. Nobody does aesthetic and elegance while being so informative like you

[@Rhizzome]

This ☝️ absolutely

[@ruben1475]

When Contrapoints talks here about avoiding getting cursed with the evil eye, I'm reminded of what she said in her Opulence video. "The Marxist art critic John Berger calls glamour "the happiness of being envied"... But this is a happiness that exists only in the imagination. The actual experience of being envied sucks."

[@equinox731]

"Spongebob Squarepants is the Übermensch." Is perhaps the greatest thing I've heard all summer. I really enjoyed watching this video a lot, especially the coverage of Nietzsche. Thank you for an informative and entertaining experience, Natalie.

[@katevenhorst1723]

“Envy is not sacred rage. The malignant demands of envious people should be ignored.” Good lord, THIS.

[@shortbushottie]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@notconvinced2204]

Most people don’t feel true envy. Envy is something people made up to help them cope with genuine criticism over their greed.

[@Gilamath.]

@@notconvinced2204 always fascinating to watch a sophist in the middle of their art

[@iv7267]

This is why so many cancellings, like the one Natalie herself faced, feels to most people like ''nonsense''. It's because it is. because it comes from a place of either misinformation or envy, and like she says, it should be ignored.

[@NormaLeeIWood]

@@notconvinced2204 Reasonable criticism mislabelled as envy is very frustrating. It would have been interesting to see a larger discussion in the video about the difference between envy of someone's success, versus contempt toward someone's greed. But I understand that the video can't include everything.

[@TVXQAznAngel]

natalie: i am maybe, perhaps, slightly more open to dating cis women now me: in a stable, happy relationship, living in germany, probably a 0,02% chance of ever meeting natalia, a simpleton: oh boy, it's my chance!!!!!! on a different note, it made me very happy to hear you speak german :D such a good and gentle pronounciation !

[@taherpatrawala_]

Is she Lesbian? Are you a girl 🤔

[@taylorbritt499]

@@taherpatrawala_ yes Natalie is a lesbian, she has a whole video on it titled Shame that was released a little while ago

[@AmyAberrant]

Oh same- I’m still hopeful for my chance!

[@taherpatrawala_]

@@taylorbritt499 Damn it, we men lost a good one 😪

[@Ttoby89]

@@taherpatrawala_ it's ok, we never had a chance any way

[@lil_weasel219]

The "Jealousy" vs "envy" that you describe are actually called "benign envy" and "malicious envy" in academic literature. Otherwise, envy and jealously are used differently seemingly by area, and have been used differently depending on the time period. EDIT; And as an additional note, I'd say there's a third type too. I was emotionally abused as a child and teen, And when I see other people being affectionate and happy with their families, I experience extreme pain. That doesn't mean I want them to lose their families or anything, But it does cause me a lot of pain and yet there is no potential for resolution (improvement). This gives rise to despair, especially if you fail to create a new family in friends, like i failed to. One might name this a different term than envy, but really theres no sense in that, because the only thing that differs compared to benign envy is the potential for resolution.

[@Nagoragama]

@homo sexual feminine mal6 whistleblower confession what are you babbling about

[@rk6032]

Bitterness?

[@naomiea.naomie6665]

That's very interesting and I think you're right that it is a different sentiment, I'd say it's the element of comparison that makes them similar. I dont fully know if there's a specific word for what you feel, I'm French so the word "regret" comes to mind but I think the English use is more narrow so it wouldn't fully translate (in French it can also mean the displeasure of facing an uncomfortable and unmodifiable reality, as well as the displeasure of unfulfilled necessity). What you feel is the reality of something you lack (a need that wasn't fulfilled etc.) or missed out on, that you can't compensate for or change and the reason it spikes up in the moments you exemplified is that other people's opposite / more positive experiences, create a contrast with your own and you're projected back, and more harshly, to your own reality. Seeing what is possible for them (and automatically what wasn't for you) also makes you realise the non-necessity of your own experience and the pain it brought, the idea that it didn't have to be that way, that maybe it could have been different. I think it can easily lead some to dark and fatalist way of thinking, and might make one believe that what happened / didnt happen to them was a personal failure, their responsibility. Just like jealousy and envy, you are brought back to your own condition and to your own unfulfilled needs, the harsh reality of your experiences which you can't change. I think what might separate this sentiment is the depth of the pain and the link to trauma. I sincerely hope you're able to find community and a sense of "family" in your lifetime, or at the very least safety in yourself. All the best :)

[@bluehunterboy]

"I leave Spongebob at the end of his shift at the Krusty Krab! One always finds one's burden again. But Spongebob teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and makes burgers. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of those patties, each mineral flake of that night filled restaurant, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the burgers is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Spongebob happy." - Albert Camus

[@sifa6795]

Came-us

[@bluehunterboy]

@@sifa6795 ladies and gentleman. we got 'em!

[@ovafofah6635]

Sadly, this isn’t the first time I’ve been Sisyphus rolled in a ContraPoints comment section😅

[@bluehunterboy]

@@ovafofah6635 Thats weird, usually Sisyphus does the rolling

[@bebebebop8050]

-Albert Camogus

[@ivanascioffi]

when she said that she could make an entire video about love as it was its own topic. i don't remember the exact minute but i am manifesting Love | ContraPoints so harddddd

[@supereggtartersauce6464]

Same

[@hugitkissitloveit8640]

1:22:00 :)

[@asdff7279]

Yesss 🥺🥺🥺😖

[@maira.azzara]

amen

[@ClemintineCake]

That MLk quote hit different

[@elizabethghil8239]

i watch your videos on break at work and i got to the catgirl nietzche part and genuinely wondered for a sec what someone who can’t hear the audio thinks i’m watching. absolutely no possible way to guess that we’re reviewing the life works of one of the most famous philosophers and a comparison of this works to envy at large in modern society… incredible.

[@UltraMarineBlue]

Envy is such a weird emotion, and I absolutely try to avoid it at all times because it is the most useless feeling to feel. Life is full of ups and downs, even if your object of envy will have a downfall they're likely to recover.. and then what? You're still at the same ol' spot. Better to focus that energy improving yourself the best you can. Not so you can rub it into other people's faces, since.. you know.. ups and downs.. But for self actualisation and inner happiness or some shit..

[@Sp00ky_D00dles]

Agreed, also nice to see you here! :D

[@CockatooDude]

That's the spirit indeed!

[@alveolate]

the weird thing about envy is... it's both inevitable and somewhat necessary. it's a side effect of competition and comparison. it's brought to an extreme when society is excessively capitalistic, which is why flaunting is a thing in the US but far less a thing in europe, and almost a taboo in some asian cultures, even in capitalistic japan (but apparently weirdly not so much in "communist" china). i digress. envy happens. even monkeys rage out when they see another monkey get a better reward for doing the same thing. even that person who says "i'm happy for you"... has to exercise some level of self-control and/or have experienced some attitude-changing lessons to be able to say that (if it was said unironically). envy as an emotion or mental flash happens; but what we actually _do in response to it_ is definitely controllable. like natalie says, envy is amplified by social media. people become a lot less inhibited about what they say on social media; but what they say there reaches FAR MORE people and also stays up almost permanently. envy is not only amplified, it is given life and becomes a ginormous green monster - but somehow the biggest victims (i.e. the most envious and the most flaunty) somehow remain blind to it and feed it the most. kids need to be taught rigorous, comprehensive courses about how the internet feeds off some basal human instincts, warping it for clicks and data. too many people are just mindlessly getting sucked into zuck and jack's in-your-face/tweet scam while hurting each other over nothing.

[@MA-yu2ss]

Yes

[@nmah1001]

I like that you mentioned self improvement. I’m considering the following hypothesis: The original emotional source of envy is a call to self improvement. When we fail to heed that call, that feeling sublimates into envy.

[@pheonexia]

The whole Marie Antoinette costume/set honestly so good, maybe one of her best imo.

[@luiysia]

i was gag ginggggggg so good

[@devinbaggs7542]

Came here to say this

[@leon3589]

Just discovered this channel, I can’t believe how eloquent and to the point it is. Few words to describe really hard confusing topics mostly based on already confusing emotions of humans. The fact that you can describe what Nietzsche also described, in a way that’s so patient and concise honestly helps a lot. I’m really surprised at how steady and how non-conflicting everything is described here. It’s like a mixture of psychology and philosophy, with some humour and sarcasm as well. I think it’s great. Edit: watching the video thoroughly I’ve realised I haven’t given you enough credit. What thorough and well written explanation of the nature of envy and the solutions to it, as well as the criticisms and understandings of the emotion. This truly was fantastic. I’ve learned a lot from this.

[@tripsplat]

Welcome to being a fan of Natalie's! She's thorough and deep as hell, and she does not miss! :^) Her segment in this video on justice is also a long-awaited part 2 to her video "Justice (Part 1) from almost a year ago, and I definitely recommend you check it out! Her video on Cringe is also a really interesting watch for after this one, especially since it's kind of like the opposite side of the same coin that is the topic of this video - both Cringe and Envy result in similar vitriol towards the object of their ire, and I personally found it really illuminating to revisit it after watching this one.

[@emily-crawford-soprano9181]

“Moral superiority often being the refuge of people who have nothing else to feel superior about. “ omg I love this.

[@flash_flood_area]

In a documentary about the horrible treatment of unwed mothers and their children in Ireland, it said that the viciousness was due to the downtrodden Irish trying to maintain moral superiority over their oppressors, the British

[@NotJustBikes]

Look Natalie, I'm with you, but those McMansions are still ugly as.

[@vvvvvv675]

Never thought I'd be the "wow I can't believe this unlikely crossover between my two favorite creators" type yet here I am

[@andre-cmyk]

THIS CROSSOVER..

[@lasha3688]

Oh shit look who’s here haha! I love your channel

[@jeeperssmith]

Right?! I literally just turned down living in an outer-ring, luxury suburban condo for the same cost as my janky, 140-year-old shared 4-family home in a poor, but very community-oriented, artsy-adjacent community. My future MIL who owns the condo just couldn't understand....

[@soccerruben1]

Hey! Saw one of your videos on the walkable neighborhoods in Europe that would be illegal to build in North America due to strict zoning ordinances in specific cities, as well as that walkthrough of that Dutch grocery store. Love it!

[@TheMellowFilmmaker]

So what I got from this video is that Squidward should admit that he's envious of Spongebob and the two should start a romantic relationship.

[@ContraPoints]

Yes exactly they should just kiss

[@KuLaydMahn]

I'm mortified, yet fascinated by the idea of Nickelodeon taking a stab at tentacle...anime

[@lanbd0525]

I mean he's a squid w many arms and ol bob has many holes, this one writes itself.

[@strawberrykun6136]

@@lanbd0525 JAIL 💀

[@justalostlocal]

@@lanbd0525 No, what have you done?! Now I have to walk into the sea for the sin of my vivid imagination. #Takememommy

[@darkstar2874]

Is this the Contrapoints “Infinity War”? All the previous topics tied into one very intriguing video.

[@zachymoore]

Okay, but what about an actual “Infinity War,” where “the left” (Tabby, Baltimore Maryland, Adria, Justine, Bruce, and The Doctor) debates “the right” (Freya, Tiffany Tumbles, Abigail Cockbane, Jackie Jackson, and Lady Floppington) in a massive video dissertation on the meaning of life?

[@umangmalik]

"cringe" kind of felt like that as well tbh

[@ryukisgod2834]

@@zachymoore Abigail Cockbain isn’t conservative anymore than Andrea Dworkin was

[@zachymoore]

@@ryukisgod2834 Uh, Abigail Cockbain is a vehement TERF (comically so), so she is definitely a conservative lol

[@ryukisgod2834]

@@zachymoore radical feminists by definition can’t be conservative, they vote for Labor generally, they don’t vote conservative

[@Grencle]

for some reason, I procrastinate watching contrapoints videos. I have no idea why. before I click on one, it feels like it will demand a lot of me to watch it. but then i do and end up loving the entire thing so much. like, it tickles my brain in the best ways and natalie has such incredible skill for structuring these videos and framing her arguments and just asdfawefa. this one hit the spot in particular. so fucking good.

[@sem_re]

asdfawefa indeed

[@LeDodgyLodger]

This essay is giving me more personal insight than years of therapy.

[@KuLaydMahn]

Same

[@HoneyDoll894]

Honestly it's crazy how much like clear envy I've started having after transitioning. Like before transitioning it was a sort of "I want that but can never have it, so for the most part the envy disappeared like she said. But then after transitioning and realizing I actually could do all those things I wanted, and suddenly I felt quite depressed and probably envious at all the pretty egirls who are cis and pretty and the trans girls who lucked out with transitioning etc.. All while not realizing that I actually can look quite nice as well and that there are people who feel the same kind of draw towards how I look as I do to others

[@whitneywilson7182]

This video has EVERYTHING: Amadeus/SpongeBob mashups; a thorough read of Nietzsche; Marie Antoinette sympathy; Evil Queen MILFs; mukbangs; Pikachu; and, of course, Nyatalie.

[@RD1R]

"rosebud"

[@robin-rr1sf]

there are plenty more things in the universe

[@kylewagoner]

And Spyro the Dragon!

[@mk-yt8og]

Most of all, lots of Tchaikovsky

[@The_Accuser]

Yes, this video is like a summary of all the best she has did in the last 4 years.

[@aerilum]

So, this is my first time seeing Natalie's video high and holy shit what a queen she is with those elaborate sets, amazing lighting, divine costumes and makeup, toppled with an array of Lacrimosa covers. All the hard work and artistry just pops up more and I live for it

[@bbabu1632]

"You know people think that lesbians are the biggest man-haters. I don't think that's true. Lesbians don't think about men that much!" I am starting to see why Natalie is the queen of lesbians. 😂❤️

[@delaney9383]

Natalie's a lesbian? Wait --

[@3456gameplayer]

@@delaney9383 She made a whole video about it too

[@delaney9383]

@@3456gameplayer yea I'm actually in the middle of watching it right now haha.

[@3456gameplayer]

@@delaney9383 Nice! its a good one

[@explicitw8657]

All hail The Queen!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[@hardlyworking_]

honestly one of the best videos on KZbin. really hope we get that episode on "Love" sometime in the next year or so

[@tysbaby6339]

There is a huge culture of apathy and wallowing in the hopelessness of capitalism among millennials & gen z, and there are lots of online commentators out there preaching about personal responsibility but from a neoliberal “don’t question the system” kind of place. Super nice to meditate on this with someone who understands how shitty the structures in place are, but also the importance of taking your life in your hands.

[@jose-qp4yz]

yeah. i agree. one of the problems i see with most of the mainstream self-help advice out there is that they lean in too much on being personal responsible for your situation and forgetting that many factors outside of your control like existing social structures, familial connections, even luck can put a hard limit on what you can achieve. meanwhile, those who are "shallowly" against the "personal responsibility" creed make it seem like you can never be happy unless the existing social order is completely revamped. forgetting that if you start at a point where you go hungry 5x a week then end up with going hungry only 2x a week, that is still an improvement however small. tbh i was in the latter camp but as i grew older and realise how difficult changing society (and how uncomfortable i am with armed revolution), i have appreciated the small improvements without forgetting how, ideally, society can be so much better

[@TheDionysianFields]

@@jose-qp4yz Going hungry 2x a week will make you much healthier than rich people, but in a country like this it still seems like it should be a choice.

[@animalfinatic9366]

@@jose-qp4yz 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@seliamila1005]

@@jose-qp4yz the important point is to keep fighting for a better world and damn Anyone who disagree, can't keep this world like this

[@aevum6667]

I'm much more skeptical of this. I've seen the pattern of people gaining more social acceptance and wealth before then suddenly start talking about how important "reform" and "personal responsibility" is. Then again, given how she strawmans with some of her characters I wouldn't doubt that she really was more liberal then anything from the beginning.

[@rylenb.4827]

The envy to contempt sublimation concept reminds me alot of when guys hit on girls and they aren't interested. So the guy says something like "well you were ugly anyway" or "who'd wanna be with a slut like you?" The guy in this situation is envious of something he can't have which is mutual interest from the girl. Instead of admitting this shameful feeling to himself, he disguises it with contempt to avoid losing his pride.

[@Alina_Schmidt]

This reminded me of a recent-ish Kat Blaque video. It was about a message she got from a guy who wanted to flirt (?), but she wasn‘t interested an politely told him. His reply was some transphobic attack. She smartly replied in a way of ‚I know I‘m not what you say I am. But if I was, what would that make you?‘

[@majorjane1995]

@@Alina_Schmidt genius!

[@dragonn935]

Spot on, the flip would be if a girl asks a man out and he rejects her she goes with the "Are you gay or something?" line.

[@rabidbeaver167]

Its something an incel would say

[@bonesandhearts5683]

Idk if that’s envy though because they don’t envy the woman, they just (if we’re going with deadly sins here) *covet* her and whatever she represents. I guess maybe it’s envy in the sense that they envy the woman’s power - like by being the one to express interest, they’re kind of placing themselves at the woman’s mercy, and she has the power to accept or reject their advances. And when they’re rejected, they definitely feel that the rejecting woman not only has power that they don’t, but that the woman is wielding that power pridefully. Like their perception is that she’s not only unfairly given this power, but she’s wielding her power in a way that hurts them and then she’s gloating about it. Like most of these guys have severe social anxiety so they’re definitely the types to assume that people are laughing at them, and they definitely assume that every woman who rejects them is immediately calling their friends to laugh at this dumb dude who had the gall to think he was datable. Of course in reality that only ever happens in like kid’s movies; most women (including me) hate rejecting guys (in fact I once ended up in a horrible year-and-a-half long relationship with a guy just because I didn’t want to hurt his feelings by rejecting him). But I think the former is what’s going on in these r/niceguys’ heads. There’s also a really clear-cut case of envy-contempt sublimation when these guys talk shit about men who are in relationships. Like even the term “Men Going Their Own Way” is a pretty perfect example of envy-contempt. They’re literally referring to themselves as “not like other men”, because they’re transforming their envy of men who are able to have romantic relationships into contempt for those men and for relationships in general (in addition to the misogyny but that’s just a given). Like it’s exactly the same thing as the NLOGs do.

[@sentientespressomachine]

Every once in a while I'll come back and rewatch this video and the side by side comparison of black swan and SpongeBob always gives me whiplash

[@hawxyxwah]

As an aside, Nietzsche reportedly got into gardening in his later years. Also reportedly, he was shit at it and all his plants wilted and died

[@suitov]

Garden is dead and we have killed him.

[@hakaandavor2789]

@@suitov ultra super duper mega omega based comment

[@suitov]

@Adrian Simmons Exactly. We must use the ubermulch!

[@twentywordsorlessYT]

"God is dead and we have killed him, nyah!" sounds really appealing as a gravestone inscription.

[@henry770]

I'm obsessed with this chick's videos. God damn it. The Gen-Z TikTok Lesbians got me on it.

[@bigcheese1618]

Glad you're here now

[@justtobehere409]

"I'm ready"- Friedbob Nietzpants. Also, the idea of Natalie sitting in her room and eating sushi while playing Spyro all day sounds really funny to me.

[@asowe8805]

Imagine if Natalie started streaming on twitch

[@violet7033]

She does have a streaming channel I believe

[@asowe8805]

@@violet7033 which was last live 5 years ago lmao

[@AndreaAirlines]

she wasn't actually playing spyro, wink wink

[@Wawelman]

This is so eye-opening. It madr me think so much about narcissism and the 'contempt' narcissists so often feel about people in their environment. It explains so much about the shame-rage vs contempt/arrogance mechanism.

[@Lokityus]

"You really can use political theorizing as an excuse not to fix your life" I don't think I've ever actually heard anything hit me so closely....

[@TheDionysianFields]

Hard to believe she ever denigrated Jordan Peterson.

[@fruitygarlic3601]

@@TheDionysianFields As is her duty.

[@aevum6667]

"Lol just try harder and you'll make it." - Natalie, a lib

[@missmorbid1439]

@@aevum6667 That’s not the point, she’s not denying that factors that prevent people from achieving success exist, or that people shouldn’t do things about them. The point is that you need to get up despite all that, and laugh at the world for trying to hold you back, and succeed anyway, in any way you can

[@aevum6667]

@@missmorbid1439 "succeed anyways" Yup that's exactly the problem. Your statement right there shows the liberal sentimentality that even though there are systemic issues that they aren't "that bad" because you can just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And implicit in that is that if you aren't succeeding it's because you didn't try hard enough. So rather than thinking of the circumstances that makes someone who they are, this mindset makes someone think of why they made the "choice" to not succeed. I'm not really interested in a sellout rehash of the same psuedo-scientific dogma that European imperialists used to justify why there is a class gap.

[@kechinomu3431]

This, this page, this actual content, I would argue, is the actual fucking utopia. I wanted it not to end.

[@KoboldLich]

Seriously though: this video is such a tangential masterpiece. Peak Natalie, funny as hell, informative. I can't express how well this one was, bravo!

[@PaintedBB]

Right? The intro credits are fantastic!

[@adeline168]

I found this video from one biological female questing to create a harmonious colour story quite enlightening, thank you.

[@tharin4400]

"It's because I'm trans. It's because I'm gay. Yeah, that's why I'll die alone, not because I never leave the house." That hit home and had me laughing out loud for several minutes :) As usual, wonderfully thought out video. Normally my attention span doesn't do 2 hrs, but with your videos it's mostly fine.

[@mycattypedthis2827]

It's really interesting how when I first started learning English in school, we never learned the word "envy", only jealousy, which seemed wrong to me since in my native language (which is Ukrainian) we have a clear distinction between these two notions. people never substitute envy for jealousy or otherwise. it would sound ridiculous because everyone knows that jealousy is related to romantic feelings, while envy encompasses a much wider spectrum of emotions. and yet somehow it's more popular in English. feels off to me.

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

It's weird, 90% of the time when us english speakers say jealousy, we mean envy, with the exception of sometimes romantic jealousy, where we *are* talking about fear of stuff like being cheated on.

[@bonesandhearts5683]

Maybe we’re just extra materialistic so we mistake envying a person and their life for just wanting their stuff. Actually that started out as a kind of dumb hot take but now that I think about it, that could really be a thing. Because I’m thinking about advertising, and almost all advertising (at least in the US idk about elsewhere) uses envy to sell things. Like they present a beautiful person with an amazing life in order to trigger envy, and then they try to transform that envy into jealousy by placing our focus on a particular thing that this enviable person has. So the idea that we mistake envy for jealousy, ie. wanting a person’s life for wanting something they own, would kind of make sense in a kind of capitalist American way. When you turn envy into jealousy, it becomes profitable. But tbh I kind of think most people just don’t realize that they mean different things. Like I always thought they were synonyms until I think one of my college English teachers corrected me. So it’s probably just that thing where us native English speakers don’t know how to speak English.

[@aspatzle827]

Same and I went to school in Germany.

[@farahm1469]

I think jealousy sounds way more innocent. A lot of people are comfortable saying "omg, I'm so jealous of xyz" in passing, but not "omg, I'm envious." It sounds more... sinful and wrong. I think it is on some level. Which is just another thing that proves Nathalie's point about how a lot of people don't want to admit they feel envious, even when they do.

[@kaylinhendrich4673]

Now kinda realizing how much envy impedes recovery, especially after heartbreak. Hard to move on if you’re constantly obsessing over the loss of a romantic partner and whomsoever my be with that person next.

[@ShadowStarz77]

This video was so helpful in finding how envy has been controlling my life. The part about not watching certain creators really nailed it. The bit about same sex attraction envy is also so goddamn real

[@MrFudge250]

Ok so the content is god-tier, we all know that, but for real? These are some of the best looks you've ever put out. Porcelain Nazar? Intrigues me. Love it. Every other look? Fetch. Gretchen couldn't make it a happen, but I will, because this is it.

[@VL-rh5tu]

I'm in love with her Marie Antoinette serial killer studio with the liberte, egalite, fraternite on the plastic (sorry I couldn't figure out the accents on the e's on my phone 🙈) I want to paint an oil painting of this scene 😍

[@manyagaver1946]

There needs to be a Natalie’s looks coffee table book

[@MajaBiana]

Yes, Natalie saying that she isn't good at makeup is maybe a prime example of her trying to avoid getting envied, because yes, yes she is ♡

[@beauzeller5097]

The God-tier content is already amazing but the looks & the aesthetics of all her videos are always the fetchest!

[@stray_editori]

The thing about envy of the plausible is something that i somewhat recently in my life discovered because I started to properly realize that every artist, every translator in fandoms I'm in, is just a human being. Someone who trained and honed their craft. And that kind of destroyed me. Because suddenly they weren't this unobtainable cloud anymore, it was the top of a mountain. A mountain I could climb, if only I was as passionate, as dedicated, as disciplined, as patient, as brave. Arguably, feeling closer to them in the realization that they're just normal people like me has made me more miserable. For the record, i never dehumanized creators per se, it was more of... they were amazing and it never occured to me that i even COULD have a big channel, do my own comic, have my own show, etc. Once it did, it made me miserable. I don't want to take it from them though! Which is why I'm not sure if it's envy. I just wish I could have it too, but instead of motivating me it's paralyzing. I could have it but I don't so I must be doing something wrong and I don't find the energy or passion to change.

[@sam4330]

I just want to say that while it's true that people aren't simply born to be amazingly good at things, that doesn't mean we are all born under the same conditions either. People are different, we have different levels of patience and self-discipline, and some of us are extremely passionate while some are not. People who become extremely good at things are normal people in the sense that they're just human. But they often have personality traits and cognitive functioning that is not normal as in average. I think it's good to evaluate what you could be doing better to achieve your goals, but it's also good to remember to not hold yourself to someone else's standard. As an autistic and ADHD person, I've held myself to neurotypical standards my hole life until a couple of years ago, and it hurt me so much. I've felt a LOT of envy and it made me miserable as well. Realizing just how different I was from the people I were comparing myself to has made me able to think more constructively around what I'm good at and not. Yes, you can always improve, but with most skills, for most people, there's a point where it's not worth it. That doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, it just means people are different. Maybe you're not the sort of person who wants to spend that much time and energy training to get that good at something. Maybe you don't have enough "natural talent" to plausibly become that good in a lifetime. And that's perfectly fine.

[@corneliahanimann2173]

this is part of the truth, yes, but success often carries more sacrifice than we see. These people sometimes sacrifice their identity, their morals, their freedom, sexual abuse is so common in hollywood and so many famous people have been exploited mentally and physically. A lot of people see their success and resent them for it without ever noticing how much work and health they sacrificed and bully them for it. Just the Free Britney movement will tell you how long it took people to open up seeing her as a victim. These people on the top are really paying a price for that spot, Envy is often just the lack of perspective to see the human from our ignorant angle.

[@tripsplat]

That's 100% envy, but by managing to keep your perspective and not lean into the feeling too hard, you're turning the negative energy that comes with envy in on yourself rather than turning it onto others. Especially because it's clear that you're pretty insecure in your own abilities, but you want to be better. I'm the same way in my artistic practice, and I think you'll come to find that everybody (even the artists you admire and view as having done the work that you can't bring yourself to do) is facing the insecurity that they haven't progressed enough, or the guilt that they've had undeserved good luck. I have found that when I get down on myself for "not being ambitious/ hardworking enough," the best way to channel that envy is to transform it into love and admiration. I'll explain: I think, personally, in my unprofessional opinion, that you have two decisions to make when you feel envy: 1 - Do I express/externalize this envy, or do I repress/internalize it? 2 - Do I lean into my disdain, or do I lean into my admiration? I think you're leaning into your admiration - which is good! But you're also internalizing it, which can be harmful if you do it too much. My advice is that whenever you feel that admiration envy, you express it positively. You say things like "I love this person's work and they inspire me to improve my own work," or sometimes straight up "I'm super envious of their talent, this is so beautiful." It helps you to get over your mental block about your own art and potential, and you'll find yourself becoming less paralyzed over time, making room for the motivation that you seek. ESPECIALLY if you're a fan of artists who are supportive and encouraging of other artists, because even if their work is way "better" and more advanced than yours, they have the ability to see talent in what you've made that you're blind to, and they can help push you in the right directions with tips and tricks that helped them. Through transforming your envy and expressing it through admiration, you're opening a door for people to interact with you in a positive and supportive way - and positive support are what EVERY artist needs in order to make progress. Envy is a normal and natural human emotion, and learning how to lean into it and experience it without hurting yourself or others is just necessary. Natalie points out a few times throughout the essay that envy is often repressed, and quotes that it's "felt more intensely by prideful people, because it's a response to ego threat." I would argue that a less intense form of envy is a sign that you're doing pretty good for yourself, even if it's hard to see that through what you're going through right now.

[@poorimage3158]

Fuck I was coming to that realisation just before I read this comment. Fuck I feel seen. Aaaaagggghhhhhhh. That's some shite epiphany

[@eyad116]

@@Zero11576 i agree, but she even said, life isnt gonna get anymore fair that it is, its just manifesting this anger by wanting to drag people just because they have it better and the mindset "if i cant have it then no one can" sure u can say its unfair and be angry about it, but reveling in it, self depricating and stagnating because of it is the poison that u should be careful of

[@BaileySarian]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@LeeannG]

I just scrolled through the comments looking for you! Suspish indeed

[@nat91307]

hi bailey

[@redheadedstepchild9814]

Oh heeey!

[@EmmyEmmyjelly]

There are goddesses among us

[@siatia5547]

@@EmmyEmmyjelly Sussy amogus baka 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@alexv3357]

The point about how envy is borne of proximity rather than absolute inequality reminds me of competition is nature: the fiercest competition isn't _between_ species, but rather between _conspecifics,_ members of the same species in the same age range.

[@stokelyepuente9946]

“This video is going on for more than an hour, so I assume you guys are drunk by now, and we’re just kinda hanging out” Haha well she does knows her audience.

[@msthalamus2172]

Loved hearing Berlioz in the background! My favorite symphony. Also appropriate, as unrequited love can be seen as a form of envy.

[@Mortebianca]

I envy this.

[@mygoogleemail2063]

Doctor Who: I envy you your TARDIS, Master. The Master: Excellent, Doctor, envy is the beginning of all true greatness!

[@Karl_King_of_Ducks]

:O pog

[@Mortebianca]

​@darhemo Zizek, Han, Contrapoints e Thunberg uno di fronte all'altro tipo Marx, Engels, Lenin e Trockij. Yass.

[@santifer9386]

Plis Porta il Breatube anche da noi maestro!

[@DrTssha]

Ah, but of course it's what we do with our envy that makes us great or evil.

[@ShadowKaiserin]

Totally unrelated to envy, but fun fact! Tom Hulce, who plays Amadeus Mozart in the movie was also the voice for Quasimodo in Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, in which Bill Fagerbakke, the voice of Patrick from Spongebob, also voiced one of the guards. So there's your real life connection between the two!

[@alexg.7913]

"This is why I quit academia" GIRL I'd go to every single class and office hours if you were my professor, like holy fuck I'd gladly take notes on all lectures and do the extra credit

[@randyt3558]

Shoot, i'm and old white cis male. Way past school. I took notes...lol.

[@leftpawedpolarbear]

I've watched this quite a few times by now and I just have to say, the use of Lacrimosa is so fucking GOOD, like the credit sequence at the beginning is unbelievably great, and you always make such incredible use of music in your videos, but the way the synth arrangement sort of creeps in an out of certain segments, it's like the melody is its own character in this video, or it's a musical embodiment of envy daring you to try to understand it.

[@internetizmyhome]

This belongs in a museum

[@serenachen3594]

One year later i think this is your best work yet. Really insightful, and made me take an honest look at the pitfalls i also fall into, and how to re-engage in a more constructive manner.

[@seaotter4439]

Good lord this video is incredibly relevant after the Titan submarine incident

[@kent5627]

That “Sibling Rivalry” frame was like a perfect snapshot of “humor that understands me perfectly, but that I am completely incapable of explaining to other people”.

[@NamelessInternaut]

That entire SpongeBob segment is literally the best analysis on the show I've ever seen.

[@SMcGowan287]

This is the third time I've watched this video. I love all of your videos of course, but this one hits different. I think about it regularly, and using SpongeBob and Squidward as a full example was too good.

[@willonastring]

when you said "fear of envious repressed ballerina doppelgangers" i genuinely thought you were going to start talking about perfect blue. cant believe there are THREE of these movies.

[@willonastring]

envy is maybe a more minor theme in perfect blue but yknow. theres an envy/jealousy element to it still.

[@thebiggestcauldron]

​@@willonastring I've watched Perfect Blue and honestly I can't really say what was the main theme. The movie was weird and I've watched it long ago. Was the main theme psycho fans? The entertainment industry turning people into unreal shallow loveable dolls?

[@willonastring]

@@thebiggestcauldron Honestly, I have not got around to watching the movie yet, despite reading a bunch of plot spoilers and stuff about it. My impression is that it's about identity and like, the artifice & instability of that. Mima as a real human being vs Mima as a pop idol whose fans feel like they own her identity and know the "true" her better than she can. You'd probably get a better answer from someone else lol sorry.

[@OfficialROZWBRAZEL]

Aronofsky likes “homaging” Satoshi Kon so don’t be surprised when it comes up. He even bought the copyrights to Perfect Blue so he could keep using its imagery.

[@legateelizabeth]

Ah, using the best Christmas Carol adaptation I see. A woman of culture.

[@handlemonium]

transformation complete :)

[@ashleyferris5749]

Is there another??? Lol jk

[@sergiogllanos]

>she

[@tecc9999]

@@sergiogllanos foh

[@affableadversary6045]

I'm revising this video after having an intense emotional reaction of envious rage when my roommate told me they can just, move into the two bedroom cottage on their parents second property. This was just after I told them about the hell I've been going through trying to apply for section 8 affordable housing. I have the real and looming threat of poverty and not finding anywhere to live and this friend is telling me how embarrassing it was to ask their parents to live on their second property's groundskeeper cottage. I don't want to hate them but I'm so mad.

[@mordechaichirinos2997]

Came back to rewatch this after al the titanic submarine thing

[@hikawagetsbitches]

it’s crazy that being a Percy Jackson fan made the Nietzsche Apollonian and Dionysian identities seem so ironic and reversed

[@turnintino]

Even in classical myth, Apollo's most popular stories make him out to be at least as unhinged as the rest of the Theoi, so I had a similar thought lol. But symbolically, and from a more modern perspective, I get it.

[@bethkeenan8800]

I mean, Dionysus is the god of wine, so obviously that’s what he represents, but Apollo is the god of having every romantic interest turned to flowers either as part of some tragic accident relating to their relationship or actively trying to escape from him. Athena makes the most sense.

[@styx8975]

I always thought the envy thing suited Athena and Aphrodite’s dynamic or Artemis and Aphrodite. Apollo is just the dude that doesn’t take no for an answer and his lovers end up as plants.

[@arigadatred5395]

@@styx8975 "lovers"? You mean "victims". (I guess his relationship with Hyacinthus was consensual, but that's the only one I can think of)

[@BabiesKillYou]

Envy is definitely the most glossed over American trait.

[@Pllayer064]

but hey it gives motion to the americ andream 🇱🇷🇱🇷

[@estelle6528]

@@Pllayer064 yeah, the American dream is built on provoking envy

[@artluver94c]

Envy is a human trait, not an American one. Americans just sometimes don't understand that being envied is a negative thing.

[@sonicthehedgehog513]

It's a human trait. Americans are not special.

[@Madcapredcap]

Contrapoints is so smart. I’ll never be like her. *sigh* Wait. OH NO.

[@dancincoolkid]

Haha I see what you did there 😏

[@MoonShadowWolfe]

OH DANG. I once heard a helpful piece of advice about envying someone's ability (or, since we don't begrudge Natalie her skills, jealousy) means we must bitterly wish to have spent all the time training she's spent. We must be aching to have gotten as much practice as she has. And that's true, but then, it isn't about her. I'm aching to have done work instead of play video games.

[@Madcapredcap]

@@MoonShadowWolfe What! Video games are where it's at!

[@Spac3zy_Pr0t0g3n]

AAAAHHHH 🧿🧿🧿🧿

[@triplegamerxxd8607]

How about instead contrapoints is so smart. I’ll never be like her 😁. Think on that one

[@LindsayEllisVids]

if you start appropriating Hunchback memes I'm suing

[@jonahknittel7027]

IM LOSIN TO A BIRD

[@jennyrodriguez811]

Just start saying *heyhowareyou*.

[@totallynotalpharius2283]

How many more people need to suffer in this war !??!

[@maestroicarodecarvalho3947]

Are you two fighting for who made the longest video???

[@m1lk0meda]

CONTRAPOINTS IS A MENACE

[@MadisynBrown]

every time you upload it feels like a national holiday

[@nateclipps]

Lmao wait- all of my fav youtubers are here.. love your content girlie!!

[@gingeralex4009]

Let's go bois!

[@boxofspoons8867]

Right? I have a whole meal and bath prepared as I binge every new ContraPoints video

[@mbsucks101]

IFKRRRRR

[@ALBUMOF2008]

Because she uploads so sparsely?