Twilight | ContraPoints

[@ContraPoints]

CONTENTS 00:00 Part 0: Twilight 05:00 Part 1: Fiction 18:30 Part 2: Desire 44:21 Part 3: Fantasy 1:22:54 Part 4: Power 1:51:28 Part 5: Death 2:22:12 Part 6: Identity

[@ccchhheeennn2]

I'm here so fast you're amazing have a nice weekend ♥

[@carolinem.5044]

🎉

[@markfelt5650]

oh thank god you're back

[@frainthesnow]

love you mothaa, from vietnam

[@roadrunner7545]

I have missed you ContraPoints! So glad you're back!

[@sambeawesome]

"Aren't you overthinking Twilight?" "No, it's the children who are under-thinking it." Love that.

[@Lucifersfursona]

Learning I even have the right to be angry at the *_ADULTS_* who create these things to show to vulnerable kids like it’s remotely appropriate or okay is a small balm

[@overgrownkudzu]

@@EverintheRising oooor maybe you're overstating harm here, and kids above a certain age are able to reflect on and recognise problematic aspects of the story if they're given proper information and not every piece of media people under 18 could read must be 100% sanitised of everything bad.

[@Horus070]

@@EverintheRising LOL I read JAWs when I was 9 years old… I remember reading a sex scene between the wife of the police chief and the oceanographer… which Never happened in the movie

[@leahscontemporary]

​@@overgrownkudzuword vomit if I ever heard one

[@dobrickgenevo]

"What are you doing?" Spreading awareness, and informing the human public about the imperative to stop commodifying animal-persons.

[@ryanzerda]

Did Natalie just use Twilight as a trojan horse to deconstruct sexuality and kink in the world at large? Respect

[@PinkElfHSP]

I know! It's amazing and just what I need.

[@marianatheschizoid5912]

Yes! That’s why she’s amazing.

[@stefanlittle]

The ushe

[@unclearctica2792]

Maybe twilight was a Trojan horse in itself

[@Ormseitr]

I have to dwell on my like for this comment was the 666th like, and that gave me dopamine. Thank you weird goblin gods of random stuff occurring online. And Natalie. Thanks to you also, you saint of deconstruction.

[@beebot3476]

Haven't read the books. Haven't watched the films. Have watched the full 3hr Contrapoints analysis in a single uninterrupted, unblinking sitting.

[@Em-jc7ct]

You're not alone. The question now is, do we watch/read it?

[@goatmeal5241]

Or library---if you are confident/comfortable enough with yourself to imagine being seen checking it out. Libraries are great!

[@karinhernmarck8281]

Same! And I am rewatching it now, to make sure I get closer to getting it.

[@weedidi7144]

​@@goatmeal5241Where I live you don't have to have any human contact to borrow books from the library. Check them out and return them in automats.

[@mathijsbeaujean8378]

@@Em-jc7ct probably not... The fact that it can be used to analyse the times (a vegetarian vampire rings dangerously close to Jordan Peterson's "a real man is capable of doing great violence, but chooses not to"), and sexual (self-)repression in/through literature through the ages, doesn't make it my yum (even though it's interesting to see the author showing her cards, even if she has to play the "I just let it write itself" to keep her own demons at bay). But I'm not going to yuck yours 😄

[@CaitlinKoi]

This actually turned out to be the most important video of my adult life thus far. I've been single for about 4 years after a rough relationship, and didn't really know what I was looking for. Then watching this, a video about TWILIGHT, hearing about the philosophy of eros and fantasy helped me realize what I needed. Turned out to be the man I'd been friends with for years who I already knew was in love with me. Nearly 7 months later I'm in the happiest relationship I've ever had in my 30 years of life. I showed him this video so he could better understand some of the inner workings of my fantasies, and to this day it's a special video for both of us.

[@malaksafa4074]

Holy moly Caitlinkoi??? Good for you BTW!!!

[@muchobootygrande]

This channel is my favorite Bible study group

[@MsVampyBoo]

Slaymen

[@lorenloiselle1733]

Are old testament or new

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

​@@lorenloiselle1733Idk they don't have them down here 😂

[@lorenloiselle1733]

@@stoodmuffinpersonal3144 autocorrect. Meant testament

[@phthalo7401]

The good ol' Bible Study Discussion Meeting

[@EvaUnit1301]

Natalie is a woman of her word. 10 months ago she ended her video with “Harry Potter is dead to me, I’m switching to Twilight,” and here we are. Another masterpiece of a video.

[@Rebecca-oh5yh]

Indeed. I thought that she was joking when she said she was switching to Twilight. She. Was. Not.

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

Well, in all fairness, at that time she had been working on this project for some time. All depending on when that sequence where she said it was filmed, and the start sequence of this one where she told us she had been working on this for 18 months….. So it was not so much a prediction, as it was her basically giving us a clue on what she was already working on….

[@EvaUnit1301]

@@gorillaguerillaDK yep. I never said it was a prediction, just that she was true to her word and delivered on the tease. 👍

[@Something-ln8pi]

Forshadowing

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

@@EvaUnit1301 She absolutely did - and I was merely trying to expand on your great comment.

[@legendaryfrog4880]

"Men want to be desired." We've been told from such a young age then women are to be desired and men must do the desiring. That beauty is the most important aspect of being a woman and aggression is the most important aspect of being a man. I've struggled with this myself. I want a woman to want me, not submit to me.

[@xBrakit]

Feel this in my soul, I echo this sentiment.

[@connorc1635]

Its the same for me, its weird complaining about oppressive sexual stereotypes as a cis straight white guy, but I never really fit into typical male sexuality, all the examples of straight male sexuality that I saw seemed predatory and exploitative and objectifying, like none of the men around me or in media could see women as anything but a potential sex slave or something, so despite my powerful sex drive, I really repressed my sexuality for a long time because my own sexual desires felt evil and disgusting, I did not want to let this thing turn me into something that would hurt and devalue the women I loved, something I am still battling to this day, even though I know that i would not do those things. I just want to be desired, I feel like a broken toy that no one wants. I do not fit in to normal male sexuality and so I am trying to find my way alone, trying my best to not reveal that i am not like other guys so that I do not get bullied and harassed by men (and some women) who see any deviation from the norm as making someone an incomplete, unlovable, and useless man. Its like actually loving women is seen as wrong, you can be attracted to women, but genuine love and respect is seen as being a "beta" or "cuck" or whatever stupid buzzword grifters are using now.

[@circlebird9013]

@@connorc1635 I wish I could save this comment holy shit

[@ilikecookies9796]

@@connorc1635 You sound like a very sweet dude.

[@iwishihadseenthatlol]

That’s hot

[@minam8022]

i know the whole "i made this video essay instead of a phd dissertation" is a joke, but this genuinely would've been an insane phd dissertation. i'm glad natalie got to share this. i'm glad i got to experience it, and i hope natalie makes more videos in the future that are born of pure inspiration and things she is passionate about expressing to the rest of the world. this video is just filled with so much passion and energy, it genuinely does feel like someone finally got to write the phd dissertation they've always wanted, which is probably why i keep finding myself back here.

[@rosexknight]

I love so much that the final say in it all is "Say what you will about Stephanie Meyer, but at least she doesn't tweet."

[@vs6584]

She never gave off narcissistic vibes like Jowling Kowling. She was too busy having to defend herself for being the most normal thing imaginable: a woman with sexual fantasies.

[@pablocanal8900]

Yes! protecting herself against the mind reading machine, she truly has the powers of Bella

[@theelectricant98]

Unbelievably based

[@brianmccullough4578]

Tiresias is wrong, i like to enjoy at least 3 parts of my wife! Tbh i didn’t realize there were 10…..I’m gonna keep looking tho! Practice makes perfect

[@mx_problematique]

The genuine gratitude I have to her for this is overwhelming

[@devilinthedetails4349]

I know you probably won't read this, but I still feel the need to say: thank you Natalie. Your essay on incels was the first time I became interested in politics and culture. You showed me an entirely different point of viewing the world, showed me a field of academics that I didn't even know existed. Last year I started university and I'm majoring in culture studies. And it is thanks to you that I'm doing what I love now. You showed me the way of looking at simple things like envy or cringe and seeing so much more beneath the surface, even Twilight is worth 3h serious analysis! You're an inspiration. Thank you for everything.

[@bardnuts]

seconding this. I started following you (Natalie) in 2016 or so and it was your videos among some others that radicalized me. You're a huge part of the reason I'm involved in leftist politics today

[@silveryfeather208]

Same, I'm sad she's not as frequent. Because I think she's one of the few that's more balanced. Like I either see extremes of 'men suck' or 'feminazi women!!' with no actual analysis

[@teethsv4824]

Real

[@AmirM52]

Jokes on you looks like she actually did read your comment

[@spiritbond8]

Yes, she is an absolute godsend. The amout of work and research and TALENT that goes into these videos is staggering. These are not "video esseys" they are contemporary philosophical works of huge value.

[@dimwitgang5544]

My grandfather was THE biggest twilight fan I've ever known. He found the Twilight series just after my grandmother passed away, and the books helped to fill a void in his life. He loved the books and he loved the movies. He loved the books so much, he installed a stereo system around his entire property so he could listen to the audio books wherever he was at, inside or out. And be listened to those books every waking hour. I was a young boy at the time, so I felt an obligatory disdain for the gushy love story, but my grandfather explained it to me, and I decided it was acceptable. He had a signed copy of each book, and when he passed, he left each of his children one of those books. RIP grandpa Eddie.

[@pumpkinschannel777]

Grandpa Eddie sounds amazing omg. Thank you for sharing this memory. It really touched me.

[@sseriksson4076]

This is such a beautiful story about the power of literature ❤ thank you for sharing

[@cookie8162]

​@michaelrmurphy2734 Well, having a grandfather would mean he has a father unlike you.

[@tahsina.c]

​@@michaelrmurphy2734 how? It reads like something an old mormon dude would write tbh

[@danielgadomski5129]

​@@michaelrmurphy2734 ya lost buddy?

[@virgil2219]

“People thinking psychologically rather than literally” really resonated with me. It made me think of the times I’ve defended tropes I like in fiction (ie possessiveness, protectiveness, the “bad boy” lover). Those are wonderful fantasies, but in the form they’re presented in fiction, I wouldn’t want them in real life. Its not a literal fantasy, and I wish more people understood that.

[@cosmo_junk]

felt this!

[@hurbig]

When I told my aunt that she shouldn’t spend money on the lottery she said “I know I’ll never win, but for just 6 bucks a week I can dream about what I’d do with the money if I did” and that made a lot of sense to me.

[@SLYKM]

Well I would just say you can do that for free, but it's just 6 dollars so not a big deal.

[@NewbiaLeogetti]

My econ professor in college advised us to play the lottery for exactly this reason.

[@eileensmyth3417]

Yes, it's like paying for the fantasy a movie delivers, but it's more a choose-your-own-adventure fantasy.

[@felle7522]

That lottery ticket helps some people be sane enough to keep going in life.

[@sourgummiescureyourpain4555]

Just another ruse of capitalism to make us dream of what it'll never let us reach. But fair enough if it keeps you sane. I opted for opiates for most of my life, closed that chapter and am now trying to cultivate better coping mechanisms.

[@Clawdeena9]

I feel like I'm watching the bible and all my questions about the universe are slowly being answered

[@mdeliacloherty]

😆

[@rhonaldneitzel2410]

Even though ironically the Bible has so many holes, hypocrisies, and misinformation as well 😭

[@PrestoJacobson]

Nat is better than the bible!

[@CharaViolet]

Ariana what are you doing here???

[@havingfunisnthard]

I’m realizing the guy I called my ‘Edward’ as a teen was really my groomer 😭 oh no. Maybe it actually did impact me negatively…

[@Mjolnirfall]

reaching the end of a 3 hour contra video and realizing i have to wait another 18 months is my yearning.

[@arempy5836]

It takes 2 babies to make one Contrapoints video

[@gabrielgray2345]

Raising the lambs necessary to slaughter in order to make these videos takes time

[@AB-fh9zh]

@@gabrielgray2345all 120.000 of them.

[@Horus070]

I was wondering if the was another KZbinr that had given up on making videos… I’m glad that was not the case. She is just taking more time instead of

[@d.w.stratton4078]

Felt.

[@milom7865]

The whole “having a competent person make decisions for you” thing was like an epiphany for me lol it makes so much sense that Bella likes having the Cullens sort of take care of her it’s like the whole family is her sugar daddy Edit: just adding to this cause I have more thoughts: don’t remember if it was brought up cause it’s been like a week since I watched the video but it makes sense that Bella would like having a sugar family based on her own family dynamic. We know how her relationship with her mom is more like a friendship where Bella has to look out for her mom a lot. And I also think that while Charlie is a great, loving father, Bella feels like she owes him something and feels a need to look out for him in a way as a result of not seeing him for years and being able to tell how badly he wants to connect with her. By contrast, the Cullen are these inhumanly powerful beings who care for her and protect her and don’t require the same amount or type of care in return since they’re vampires lol

[@emmyrose233]

I cannot believe content like this is free

[@Zanator1]

All thanks to her patrons giving her enough money to research this in so much depth and put all the props together.

[@cmcintyre101]

I learned so much!

[@oohlala2011]

I had the same thought and literally just signed up for her Patreon, because wtf this is incredible

[@aya-h98]

My thoughts exactly!

[@TysonDylan0]

Usually you "pay" for it by watching ads

[@hallamshire]

Legit pastor here. Ordained pcusa. Contrapoints, your Biblical interpretation is spot on. Frankly, you understand this better than 95% of my congregants. Well done.

[@rishaa682]

Most pastors don’t understand the bible lol

[@Patmorgan235Us]

​@@holli3716my favorite thing was the LifeWay poll where a significant number of people who identified as evangelicals denied the divinity of Christ.

[@meaverly]

pcusa is a really good church, what a lovely surprise to see an ordained member is a contrapoints fan.

[@LimeyLassen]

@@rishaa682 For the ones who went to college, it's more like they understand it but play dumb and tell the flock what they want to hear.

[@andieallison6792]

@@rishaa682you can say that about the public in general. Yes I'm including atheists/agnostics in there too.

[@tonyjoestar2632]

Mozart knew what great DJs know today: you gotta have some good build up before the beat drops

[@zmbz]

damnnn yo boy be on that thug shit fr fr. hey this is kind of random but could you maybe idk send me your snap?

[@MGHarris]

This is a masterpiece. The first time I've ever been envious of Stephanie Meyer, not for her money her success her fans, she's more than welcome to them all. But to have the great Natalie Wynn devote this much time and thoughtfulness to praising her literary creation, wow. Chapeau, Mrs Meyer.

[@calicat1081]

I hope that when Natalie looks at viewing stats for the first few days of a new video she understands that many of us are delaying watching it until we are mentally and emotionally ready to absorb the philosophical hot takes and outstanding visuals.

[@burtonfzz]

Its a pity that KZbin algorithms doesn’t like such behavior and don’t promote videos that have such dynamic. It might be a reason why Natalie went all the way to Patreon. KZbin like viral short videos that were viewed instantly. Usually you cant create a deep exploration video that involves a lot of brainpower to watch in this scenario 😕 KZbin algorithms focused on creators like mr.beast - short, kinda entertaining (I don’t think so personally but overall people think something like that), with extremely video editing. The amount of research conducted by Natalie vs mr.beast (and his huge crew) can’t be compared to. Of course he as a creator and as a professional is a unique case, but so do Natalie. But I personally prefer ContraPoints and, besides agony of waiting for a new video from Natalie, I prefer things that she do. But its hard to be fully financially free creating one magnificent video per year based on KZbin monetization (and there is no product placement or ADs as well). And I think Natalie understands that and don’t rely on view count too much.

[@atherisGAY]

I'm watching it now, having seen it uploaded minutes after it was uploaded... because I was just too busy to pay the attention a new video from her deserves

[@atherisGAY]

Oh and at least two of my friends and me sat in a call the very next day going "New contraptions video! Haven't watched it yet! So excited for it." We all wanted to be in a good headspace

[@Norabarnacle1922]

You are completely correct. I saw it uploaded and did not immediately watch for these reasons. I also have a massive crush on her so needed the time/space to appreciate the essay in all its glory. Natalie speaking about romance and desire literally “gives me the vapours”

[@hadnoideahow]

It took me several days to prepare because as much as I thought I will be watching it in parts, that was just my other self lying to me. I watched it one go, as I knew I would.

[@roninjoey]

“Pride and Prejudice didn’t end with Darcy hunting down Wickham in a high-speed carriage chase” MAYBE IT SHOULD HAVE

[@thequietdreamer2186]

If it’s any consolation: the Newcastle regiment that Wickham was shoved off to? IRL, they were dealt horrendous casualties at Waterloo. So if it helps, you can pretend that a French cannonball practically vaporized him.

[@drariet9190]

As it should​@@thequietdreamer2186

[@Tama-Hero]

I literally yelled this at my screen

[@elijahpaden4151]

Pride and Prejudice and Zombies is always there if you're looking for Pride and Prejudice but it's an action movie.

[@Littlepea2890]

@@thequietdreamer2186thank you for this

[@deadmanreading3152]

"I am begging these people to learn to think psychologically instead of literally so that they're not constantly baffled and traumatized upon encountering literally the most common type of sexual fantasy that people have." Amen.

[@nitsanraviddaos4797]

Amennnnn brother! (or sister, or sibling, I'm not judging just concurring)

[@ShadowTheHedgehogOffical]

​@@nitsanraviddaos4797hi this reply is a banger lol hahahh

[@kx7500]

@@ShadowTheHedgehogOffical*”Disgusting black creatures, get out of my sight.”* My favourite real Shadow the Edgehog quote

[@wordnado9788]

For me the problem is that it is a fantasy. It says something about us, our economy. If most people met their needs they wouldn’t even want this

[@ziglaus]

​@@wordnado9788I was with you until you brought up economy. Yes, it says something about us. No, it's not about economy, lol.

[@handsomelyerin]

I always think about Fleabag in the confessional. "I want someone to tell me what to wear, what to eat, what to do, etc" Ms. Waller-Bridge always had her finger on the pulse.

[@vayllonyx5360]

i think the term “penetration,” though it’s the current “neutral” term, is still deeply rooted in patriarchy. If we lived in an oppressive matriarchy we might call it “consumption” or “ingestive” or smth. The term “penetration” isn’t even all that accurate. In common use, to penetrate or pierce an object is to create a hole where there was not one before. This does not describe the sex act it references, and we use it because of DHSM. One does not “penetrate” an open envelope by putting a letter into it unless you’re doing it wrong. I think not deconstructing that word, not realizing that maybe we describe sex that way because of cultural attitudes and not because that’s what’s actually happening, is a huge contributor to why many “radical feminists” wrote the things they write. ty for coming to my ted talk lmao… great video Nat ❤

[@vayllonyx5360]

1:45:31 soap box again but BRUH BOTH PEOPLE ACTIVELY DOING THINGS TO MAKE THE OTHER PERSON FEEL GOOD IS KINDA DEFAULT?? or, certainly should be, and isn’t like… complicated or anything. Bottoms can move too, and unless you’re specifically doing a thing, they usually do lol.

[@ElliWoelfin]

Very good thought :)

[@runefaustblack]

What's DHSM? (Google only tells me it's Diagnostic Health Services something)

[@rmd3880]

@@runefaustblackdefault heterosexuality sadomasochism

[@ilovetaylor2169]

⁠@@runefaustblackwatch the video Natalie coined the acronym in the video……it stands for default heterosexual sado masochism It basically means that men are automatically assumed to be the dominant one in a relationship.

[@Astermisten]

The cycle of being a Contrapoints viewer: 1. Enjoying the latest video more than you thought possible. 2. Being hyped for the next one. 3. Intensifingly worrying about the possibility there will never be another one. 4. Forgetting about Contra for half a year. 5. Seeing the title of the new one and thinking "well, that sounds weird." 1. ...

[@TheCCress]

Forgetting about this channel is a flop. Stop doing that part

[@stoyanpetkov3853]

@@TheCCressIt is pretty understandable when she doesn’t post for so many months. We are clearly all still subscribing, it is just that there is no new content to watch.

[@eatplastic9133]

Yea I went though all of these, but haven't gotten to the part of forgetting. For me they are the same number tho because now when I see a new video of hers I try to cancel most of my plans so I can watch it as soon as possible...

[@pattyofurniture]

1. Enjoying having my mind broadened on a variety of topics while being dazzled by her art. 2. Determining how/if this new information impacts my world view. 3. Yearning for CONTRAPOINTS content and checking her channel to see if I've missed something. 4. Hoping Natalie is alright and watching old content until I feel better.

[@christophertaylor8166]

@@stoyanpetkov3853this is the direction most of her peers making similar content have gone due to a combination of increased ambition and burnout: much larger and more impressive productions far less often. It’s becoming increasingly clear that the kind of work people building their channel put in is almost never sustainable in the long haul for a variety of reasons. If you want to keep up the supply of that sort of entertainment, I think it’s best to just keep seeking out new creators. FD Signifier’s feed is a really great source for this; he’s more or less constantly finding and recommending the content of smaller channels producing good stuff.

[@Ward_reads]

1/6 of this video is her trying to convince us "It's about Twilight, I promise". I love it.

[@theamazingsolt]

The other 5 are repetitive clips from twilight movies. 10/10 would watch again.

[@drot13]

@@theamazingsolt I think that she could make entire video from just clips from Twilight and similar movies, but then I would miss her voice and humor...

[@Sarcasticron]

EVERYTHING is about Twilight, didn't you know?

[@shinkamui]

@@Sarcasticron well, at least 1/6 of everything still a better cuck story than twi-

[@terpsidance.]

We've really entered the plot twist era of video essays...

[@whyeven919]

I just wanted to say that I adore how the music fits in so perfectly with the video. The Tristan cord when talking about "the Germans", the end of "Night on Bald Mountain" when you're quoting Friday about women "returning to earth" after their sexual fantasies? This makes the video so much more enjoyable, I am genuinely in awe.

[@Zanz0vida]

"Women are not sexual, how do I know? Ask them and they almost always say no" I had to pause and chuckle to myself because this is SUCH an FUNNY thing for a straight man to say

[@fipachu]

Well, maybe he wasn’t straight. I do get your point though, it’s also sad. Any way you slice it dude was missing out on some exciting things.

[@MeganMarieFox]

And we're all forced into this ONE corporeal form! Might as well have fun with it, hot damn

[@Gossamer367]

Reminds me of some of the conversations that happened when WAP came out

[@TheSalemW]

On the note of Death, Sex and Twilight I had an ephiphany a couple months ago about why i as a young gay cis male teen was so gripped by Twilight. It was because of AIDS. I had grown up through the tail end of the AIDS crisis and therefore was terrified of the kind of sex I as a horny gay teen couldn't stop thinking about. As Edward was pushing away Bellas physical advances I understood immediately it was because the physicality of sex for them would be death because thats how i felt anytime a man i wanted came close to me.

[@manzijoel5224]

Oh my God, this just opened a can of worms I didn't realise existed. Thanks, will be mulling over this connection for the next decade.

[@hotfunnycoolgirl1000]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iKPXpaeqj9Z2idUsi=kQ8_XFqb4bNzybam

[@fossilfighters101]

+

[@TeagueChrystie]

+

[@Shmoe101]

Did you ever come to terms with this fear?

[@babyxblue]

"French philosopher and pervert" applies to literally so many of them 😭

[@thecomfortinthesound]

Rousseau comes more or less immediately to mind lol

[@kayleehog]

My first thought was Voltaire 😢

[@god...itsbrutalouthere9105]

Let's not forget about the time when French philosophers tried to legalize ped0ph1l1a 💀

[@babyxblue]

Let's not forget about the time when French philosophers tried to legalize literal p3d0*******

[@armondtanz]

they liked em young...

[@billygoodin6194]

I’ve watched this like 5 times now and still digesting new information from it. I also find your voice calming and helpful when I’m having issues with my anxiety.

[@-beee-]

Lowkey painful to witness how my intimate, deep, dark feelings are actually so basic that philosophers have been tearing them apart for like, 500 years, but it's worth it to have the clarity and joy of you articulating the how and why behind them so effectively. Thank you.

[@ninanung5945]

Feel ya, but it’s more like 2000 years… and we thought we were special 🥲

[@andrewcapra7153]

Several points in the video made me feel like I had tried to take a shortcut through a dark alley and Nat stabbed me in the gut behind the dumpster. If this had come out a decade ago I could have avoided the consequences of my younger self deciding that fabricating false memories of trauma was easier and preferable to confronting my feelings about sex and desire despite there apparently being entire library shelves of discourse about them.

[@Darkloid21]

Not…really? A lot of this sounds like reaching, especially the part about fiction and definitely the one on desire. And her take on long term relationships is…well wrong as is that on love. What she is describing isn’t love. What happened with Bella screaming isn’t love. Like…I’m a little disappointed with this video.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

@@Darkloid21 You really did just restate “she is wrong” with different wordings 4-5 different times and not elaborate at all, huh?

[@Darkloid21]

@@randomjunkohyeah1 If I elaborated it would take forever to read. But to start the notion of Buddhism and desire isn't correct. It's not that desire is bad or causes suffering but rather attachment that is what does. Even then it's not entirely bad either. It's far more nuanced and complex than she makes it out to be. Same thing for pleasure and what she takes to be love in Twilight with Bella screaming in that one scene. That wasn't being in love that's infatuation. Actual love is different from that. I could go on but like I said it would take forever. She really misses the mark on this video and I already lost some respect for her after that weird tangent about Vaush in her last video.

[@euphoricamoric6841]

I read the Twilight saga when I was 12, and I remember having a lot of contempt for Bella in New Moon. I found her grieving of Edward pathetic, unrealistic, and toxic. In that, I felt a kind of smug superiority to both her and Meyer; I would never be so torn up over a man because I was strong and independent. I’m now 20 years old and currently experiencing limerence following a breakup. It’s more painful than I could’ve ever imagined. Combined with pre-existing mental health issues it’s almost unbearable. I can barely eat, sleep, or study. There isn’t a moment of the day I don’t feel physically ill. I constantly imagine all the other people my ex could be pursuing and think “Why not me?” I didn’t think I would ever relate to Bella in this way, but here I am. Turns out she is me and I am her. I am thoroughly humbled. Edit: wow hello, I didn’t expect this comment to resonate with so many people. Thanks for the support everyone! The Internet can be cool sometimes.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Your comment reminds me of a review of the Twilight movies that a French KZbinr made a while ago. He mostly just makes fun of the series, but there's this one part where he talks about Bella screaming in her bed because Edward left, and after he first jokingly said something like:''lol what a wimp'', he added(translating as best as I can):''Just wait until you get dumped by someone that you profoundly love. Oh, I understand, the first time that I saw this scene, I reacted like you, and the movies, and the love story between Bella and Edward don't deserve such a scene...But you'll see, one day you'll also be screaming into your pillow because you feel like you life is fucked''

[@mewho8057]

Pain doesn't go away, but we get better at handling it and living alongside it. There will come a time when you will find it difficult to remember how overwhelming this pain once was. Corny as heck, but this too shall pass

[@melina_0455]

​@@legrandliseurtri7495 which KZbinr was it?

[@BeUnadulterated]

I am sorry you are going through the break up. From experience, I will say it is about the most intense pain you can feel. Some may say it doesn't go away but I wanted to say it actually does or becomes so minimal it doesn't feel like pain. You can get to the point of being able to look back and laugh, enjoy the good times, and even wish the person that caused you so much pain the best. I know it doesn't feel like that is possible at the moment but that is ok to feel. It takes time and it is ok to feel what you feel. It is totally normal. The healing process is different for everyone but it is possible to heal through what at the moment feels unbearable.

[@aurettew1795]

@@melina_0455 It was Durandal if I'm not mistaken.

[@finnac89]

Can we take a moment to appreciate Natalie's mastery of leitmotifs? Watching the video I can identify over 20 different tracks that correspond to their associated videos from Envy, Shame, Cancelling, Opulence, Beauty, The Hunger and even the Nostalgia tangent. Makes it feel like a cinematic universe of ideas and feelings being channeled through a modern-day Oracle of Delphi.

[@Ayesha_11122]

+1

[@vivianetirone4454]

I would love to see a video categorizing Natalie's leitmotifs.

[@kbarteaux9807]

100%! Great catch

[@emilyrln]

@@vivianetirone4454Omg that would be amazing!

[@essendossev362]

@@vivianetirone4454and specifically in the form of a video essay that's 100% extra.

[@saffodils]

just re-watched this, and while it's full of revelations and unexpected connections, what still sticks out to me is the discussion of valuing fiction not just on how well crafted it is, but also how well it "scratches an itch." i came to this understanding through reading a lot of fanfic-that a story can be poorly formatted, littered with clichés, and clearly not thoroughly planned out, but be utterly compelling in its character dynamics and exploration of the taboo. it has helped me so much to be able to talk about media this way: literary criticism can reveal a lot, but often misses out on what works about comfort media. no, this murder mystery is not a poetic twist on the genre, and what it has to say about modern times is said better elsewhere, but the detective's relationship with the police feels so earned. no, this erotic comic is not technically well constructed or a useful manual on realistic sex, but it explores this niche kink in a way that so few "get." there's a sense, for me at least, of understanding between the creator and i. that, on some level, we share values-they know just how far to push me out of my comfort zone so it's thrilling but not painful or truly horrifying. they won't coddle me and pretend we aren't both "at the devil's sacrament," but neither will they present things that are truly heinous (with the definition of truly heinous of course highly subjective, hence why imo it's a taste and values thing and not just about skill). obv this isn't the only lens through which to read fiction-you would miss out on a lot. but it's so good to be able to step back and say, comfort fiction is not meant primarily to be instructive or poetic, it's meant to evoke emotions and bodily feelings. [x] is good bc it does that for me!

[@rafalopes9093]

"'Aren't you overthinking Twilight?' No" said Nat at 1:50:56 of an almost 3-hour video. I really missed her.

[@dragongirl7978]

Right? I was so excited when this video popped up and it is such a masterpiece.

[@rishaa682]

I guess you’ve never been to an English or Literary class before?

[@honeysluiced]

@@rishaa682 lmao be silent.

[@laurenm3148]

One of my favorite moments too! I laughed out loud irl

[@choosecarefully408]

The funnier thing is, comedian Jimmy Carr summed this up in one joke. He collected the most popular answers to surveys answered by women in what they wanted in a man. Everything suits serial rapists/killers, stalkers. There's nothing woke in woke culture. Those of any gender who want men have fantasies about 'being taken.' This *is* way over-thinking it all.

[@discord20]

I've always wondered at those women who fall in love with serial killers, but Natalie's explaination makes perfect sense. Of course it's a power fantasy. It's the fantasy of being so transcendently desirable that even the most inhuman among us can't help but fall for you, that he is tamed by your feminine power. And then you have the power of his violence at your disposal. Very interesting.

[@remi5812]

very sociopathic honestly

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@remi5812 Yes, and?

[@CarolinePralin89]

Swedish author Liv Strömqvist made an interesting analogy to the people employed by Joe Exotic in ”Tiger King”, as they describe the power they feel while ”walking a lion” etc. I think it’s a good analogy because I guess we can all relate to the pride/power/thrill of seeing beneath the (dangerous) surface of someone.

[@irfansyahril8511]

among us

[@xilj4002]

​@@remi5812 How do you think dating men works as a woman (or someone navigating life as ~woman)? You pick someone from a group that some cynically refer to as your natural predators because of statistics, you make little safety arrangements like turning on location sharing in case he makes you disappear in some way or checking escape routes or the Angel shot of the place you meet at. Then you hope he has or discovers empathy for you because (especially in older generations) men's normative lack of empathy would often be considered a symptom for a woman. Then you keep hoping you weren't wrong and he will protect you not hurt you. Dramatizing it with a monster or serial killer is just a literary device to make this aspect more empathized and central instead of almost unconscious decisions.

[@bripk9598]

Part 3, specifically the discussion around "My Secret Garden", made me think of the modern day misunderstanding of the song "Baby it's Cold Outside." At the time it was understood that she DID want to stay but had to be "convinced" like a "proper lady." These days, we listen to the song and condemn him for not respecting her boundaries when she said no. Specifically the "hey what's in this drink" line was widely condemned, but that was slang during the time the song released that denoted there was hardly any alcohol in the drink at all and they would've preferred a stiffer pour. Baby it's Cold Outside basically was a ravishment fantasy song that absolved the woman of blame so they could do exactly what both of them wanted to do in which the man provides her with excuses, shows he is on the same page, and basically offers himself up as a scapegoat to take the social blame.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

The problem, and the harder issue, is that this is the fantasy forced on women by our culture. My wife deals with domestic violence survivors who tried to live out their fantasy and… it didn’t end well.

[@Amy3422]

I've heard that take and the song *could* be performed in playful and innocent ways. The issue is that the lyrics are indistinguishable from things real date rapists say and assuming implied consent because a woman's refusals aren't forceful/convincing enough is how real date rapes happen. Even in the original clip, the man is blocking her exit from the room & using physical pressure to prevent her leaving. That may be fine in a fantasy for women, but you wouldn't play an excerpt from 50 Shades over the mall radio. Most people who hear "Baby It's Cold Outside" hear it without context. I heard it multiple times from coed high-school choirs. At that point, the only messaging comes from the lyrics, and the lyrics by themselves are rapey, and the message that a no sometimes means yes was being normalized to teens by teachers.

[@fluidthought42]

​​​@@Amy3422 As I've heard someone else put it, rape culture removes women of the capacity to openly say yes to sex (as the song is supposed to be put in the context of, of a soft "yes") but that also subsequently denies the visibility of an obvious but soft no. When women are expected to act as madonnas to fulfill on proper femininity consent becomes much more muddier and difficult to ascertain. So it's appropriate to criticize the song as representing the rape culture it's a reflection of, but not the song itself as being that of a literal rape.

[@Amy3422]

@@fluidthought42 This is well put, yes. The song glorifies rape culture regardless of whether or not it depicts a real assault.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

I think that song would stick around less if we had another classic male-female Christmas duet to replace it with. I can’t think of any others off the top of my head

[@Matematik-np9uy]

„Conflicting nutritional advice coming at us from all sides“ over Edward pouring a glass of blood is beautiful

[@meritmarinarainfo7338]

This video was really powerful for me. I’ve been an avid hater of romance books which pair women with abusive men. It’s always been a reflection of my fear that the women around me will find those relationships to be acceptable and therefore get hurt by the men around them. I had never thought to compare it to my own darker fascinations, nor was able to unstand there was a sameness to it all. The truth is, I was severely sexually abused as a child and I struggle to think logically about those sorts of topics, where I see similarities, I feel fear. At least now I can express that I am afraid, not necessarily that I dislike the media.

[@wearmeout1]

great insight that a lot of people online could benefit from

[@esterelina]

I totally agree and I understand you. I've been very wary of booktok and the romance books that are popular at the moment, because of this very reason. This video made me think about the topic a little more deeply. However, I find that sometimes romance readers don't think of certain books or tropes as "dark romance", even if they are. I feel very troubled when I see people enjoy books with abusive men, but don't categorize the books as "dark romance" but just "romance". Or, sometimes I come across a book that in my opinion shouldn't get categorized as romance at all because the relationships are so abusive, and yet you see people romantisizing them. Maybe it stems from the people reading those books not being able to accept that they enjoy reading such dark themes, so they try to soften their dark fascinations by seeing them as romantic? I don't know but it makes me uncomfortable. Especially paired with trends such as girls asking their real life boyfriends to do attractive things that men do in romantic books (like the doorframe lean thing, iykyk). To me, there's not a clear enough separation of fantasy and reality.

[@Editorialzero]

I also feel this way. I am often almost hurt by the idea that women would want a man that so clearly is abusive and drags them back into traditional gender roles. I’ve never been in the camp of “oh reading this will make you more likely to get abused” because I do understand that fantasy is separate from real life and I’m confident in the ability of women around me to understand that. It’s more that I will never be interested in men like that (maybe I take on more “masculine” associated roles that were talked about in this video idk), and I don’t understand how other women can still find any value in the idea of a man like that at all. It’s unappealing, and I wish men like Christian Grey were extinct.

[@meritmarinarainfo7338]

@@esterelina yeah, its so hard to tell if others are drawing that line in a safe place, and as a trauma victim it’s hard to look the other way. But I also am an avid believer that exposure brings knowledge, much of my suffering as a child could have been stopped if I had only known what was happening to me and had the words to express it. My hope is books like this ends up being education on appropriate behavior, however I do agree that some of them really lack any elements of regret for the male characters behavior in a permanent way. It’s hard not to be afraid of seeing others hurt by the same things that damaged you, and it’s totally valid to be wary of those things because of it, especially when you understand the origin of that avoidance. All that to say I hope you’re doing well, the world is a scary and sometimes painful place but we will get through it, there is so much love to be had too :)

[@llynxfyremusic]

thst being said coho still sucks

[@WolfwalkingOut]

"'Receptive' is a better word than 'passive' because receptivity can be its own form of activity" This one just altered my brain chemistry. I've been feeling for so long that my journey has been one of receptivity, that being receptive is what I am existing as and because of. It's not just "sit and do nothing," it's an active stance. It's an activity.

[@VerbenaComfrey]

thank you! yes!

[@Xmeagol]

Top or bottom? Receptive.

[@carlalussini]

Yes! I came to the same conclusion/found the more well suited concept of receptiveness like a month ago; I'm so happy is in the collective consciousness now! It truly is all related, what is the sacred trinity, and the 5D consciousness, but finding the neutral point/the melting of the 2 becoming the 3, a new thing ("us"). In the spiritual sense, it's about the connection with the higher self (our God part, soul, Anima/Animus). An orgasm blurs the lines of the self/connect us to the higher vibrational dimensions by making us feel more of our selves, what logical society calls our female and male parts.

[@Sophia-vk5bq]

Its a state and a response. Really deep thoughts!

[@stoodmuffinpersonal3144]

HELL YEAH!

[@kafkabarbie]

two years ago my mormon friend accosted me and forced me to watch all of the twilight movies with her. I had never interacted with the series, despite growing up mormon myself and having several peers and moms in my life who were obsessed. And I was BESIDE myself because of the themes of sex and power, will to power, religion, basically everything you covered in this video. I devoured the books, but unfortunately my friend did not read into them as deeply as I did and was not interested to analyze the mormon theology or the eroticism of abstinence/unfulfilled desire with me. I never found anyone to talk about it with and couldn’t find a video online of the caliber that I wanted. And now, this. thank you!!! You are insightful, funny, and a perfect presenter. love you mommy!

[@Tysoneko]

@@EverintheRisinggirl this is a 3 hour long video essay

[@dinosaysrawr]

When you desperately need to infodump about/deconstruct something, but you have nobody to infodump/deconstruct with. The struggle is real.

[@miriamlevenson9430]

thinking critically about art is not pretentious. y’all will say anything to be anti-intellectual these days

[@qwertzy121212]

@@EverintheRising what are you gibbering about

[@tula1433]

“Accosted me” 😂

[@Kikimonsterbooks]

I've watched this twice now and it reframed my thoughts on fictional toxic heroes like Edward. And how I shouldn't care if people find an enjoyable fantasy in dark, angsty romance. It also helped me really pinpoint why I don't like reading romance, but I love romance options in RPGs like Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate, because I'm not getting a fantasy I want from two characters in a book, but I am getting it when I create a character and interact as a video game avatar. And it's made me want to write romance, so I am active in the process. And for that reason I'm not likely to ever embrace reading romance, but I will defend it against haters. But this video continues to sit with me and I'm thankful it helped me break out of my own stubborn, sometimes rude thoughts about the romance genre

[@kirillsasin]

There's also a bit of autoeroticism in the masculine triangle of the fantasist, the masculine subject, and the feminine object: the more elusive the prey, the greater the wothiness of the hunter who manages to catch it, and so the desire is also split in two: the desire of the object and the desire of being someone capable of getting it.

[@bernardo.bridon]

THREE HOURS? God, I asked for a small mercy and you brought me salvation.

[@kyriaemegawatt8397]

Right?? Im on day 4 Still havent finished This masterpeice

[@robcoop6521]

Oh, wondered why this seemed to keep going. Didn't look at the time. Still a better story than...

[@squeebro]

Our God is a giving God(ess)!

[@SP3CTR0L1T3]

I was so sure the yin/yang, light/shade part was going to end with "and they blend together to create... fifty shades of grey".

[@evoregnar5354]

XDDDD

[@evoregnar5354]

How can this video essay be even more funny

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

Fifty genders of grey

[@elmartinez333]

This video is the equivalent of a warm bath. I step out of it not only rejuvenated, cared for, but also energized

[@hannaisuplate1689]

“Bella and her polycule of monster men” THAT got me

[@sabsab878]

Ah, if only…

[@naheemquattlebaum2267]

*chuckles in Anita Blake*

[@Plunkcown]

🎵she did the mash🎶 🎶she did the monster mash🎵 🎵the monster mash🎶 🎶it was a graveyard Smash 😏🎵

[@spacekitty7971]

"One cannot become Xian, immortal and in line with the Dao, without first balancing the bratty bottom and service top within themselves." -Laozi probably

[@Belsthar]

Pretty sure that was one of the Zhaungzi dreams

[@humbledaoist]

Topping and bottoming are ideas of the self. The Master is selfless and therefore does not top or bottom, they simply are.

[@thefearandwonder]

This is the first youtube comment I've ever truly resonated with

[@cyrusredgrave3439]

"some people are born straight, and others have straightness thrust upon them." Absolutely S-tier setup for that line.

[@babyxblue]

Time stamp plss

[@garyprime6983]

@@babyxblue1:26:42

[@alexanderbranch1873]

This has become a bit of a comfort video for me that I revisit every now and then lol, I’ve even sent it to some friends just cause it’s so thought provoking yet interesting

[@pixiechan]

You have NO IDEA how much I needed a two-hour contrapoints video about Twilight right now. The universe doesn't usually provide in such a direct and specific way but man am I grateful for this.

[@yachatta5997]

Ikr? Same here

[@victorbee8828]

Omg yes agree 💯

[@johnnyc2764]

Luckily, you got one and a half of what you asked for because this is very nearly 3 hrs

[@just_some_donkus]

Same here… this was released at the perfect time for me

[@ThumpingThromnambular]

*god

[@AdrianColley]

20:15 "The Volturi are like a Mormon's idea of Catholics: you know, they live in the Vatican, they speak Italian, they're gay..." I choked laughing at this. I'm going to watch a few more times to get it out of my system before I go back to my food.

[@leahscontemporary]

I wonder why thats only exclusive to Mormoms tho

[@officialgoogleyoutube]

@@leahscontemporaryBecause the author (Stephenie Meyer) who created the characters is Mormon.

[@MegaRambit]

Listen, I was raised Mormon. My dad converted from Catholicism to be with my mom. (All three of us have since left the church.) This part made me scream laughing, I immediately had to run and show Dad that part, it was so funny

[@Probablylani]

I choked as well. Literally coughed and got paint from my brush on myself.

[@CinnamonQuills]

What always bothered me about the Twilight books wasn't that they were "problematic", it was that it was like the books reached back in time into 16-year-old me and pulled out every greasy, squirmy, deeply embarrassing fantasy I had and smeared it all over the pages with the same maturity and awkwardness that I had at the time. They made me feel intense secondhand embarrassment for all the people reading the contents and going "Bruh...*what*" because it's SO nakedly the kinds of fantasies that repressed, inexperienced girls have where everything becomes a mishmash of metaphors and the main character is both obviously ordinary but also the most, MOST special-est girl. They're so on-the-nose that they make me feel exposed and uncomfortable. So thank you so, so much Natalie for walking me through that discomfort and helping me understand that it's actually extremely common to have a squirming, awkward, deeply embarrassing 16-year-old girl inside us that we used to be who's just kind of flailing around trying to figure herself out with imperfect metaphors and weird Chosen Ones monster polycule kidnapping fantasies.

[@HansLemurson]

Wait, it's common to have a deeply embarrassing 16 year old girl within yourself? ...Uh oh.

[@tomboy2980]

I think a lot of people fell in love with it for the same reason it creates discomfort for you- it's a very naked look into a very common type of inherently feminine wish fulfillment. The stuff your inner 16 year old self wants but has learned NEVER to say aloud. And in a way, I commend Stephanie Meyer for living her bliss for all to see. It's the phenomenon of embracing "I am cringe but I am free," but not even realizing (at least initially) that you're cringe to begin with, which is usually considered even more cringe. I'm positive there were loads of people who responded to that unapolegetic wish fulfillment with "FINALLY" instead of deep resistance. I think both responses make sense, but the fact they are total opposites despite originating from the same desire is deeply interesting.

[@stephanyarbelaez8835]

Mormonism keeps people in perpetual adolescence in a lot of ways. I think that's why the writing feels like it does

[@TheSongwritingCat]

Honestly, I think a decent amount of people jump from YA straight to romance or they never have the YA phase (since it wasn't that popular until relatively recently) and that's where all the repressed desires go. Romance can definitely still be cringe because it exposes similar vulnerabilities and also because to some degree, any description of physical intimacy is awkward (especially dressed up with flowery language), but it's generally more polished because it's intended for an adult audience. Another thing about romance, is that the tropes feel very well established and it seems like editors generally iron out the majority of the issues. I feel like some of the awkwardness of Twilight and 50 Shades is the sense there was a lack of oversight.

[@fehzorz]

Teenage boys have had many choices for playing out those half baked feelings and fantasies in their entertainment for a long time

[@nemtudom5074]

This video is insane. The amount of 'leads' and 'clues' it has about my attraction to women, and theirs to me, is enough for atleast half a year's worth of introspection. I am going to make so much progress growing as a person simply because you gave me a lot to think about. Thank you

[@cassif19]

"Fight between the mormon vampires and an army of ethnic stereotypes" 😂

[@4203105]

No, the Mormon vampires fought on the same side as the ethnic stereotypes. Well I guess against the other ethnic stereotypes, but that side only had one of those (Italiens). The "good guys" had a bunch of ethnic stereotypes.

[@cassif19]

@@4203105 I'm not cultured enough about Twilight and it shows

[@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801]

It results that the real horror was racism all this time.

[@zab416]

@@cassif19 It was confusing. I think Natalie misspoke a little there. If this piques your interest, that fight sure is...something.... in both the book and I'm told it's SOMETHING in the movie version lol.

[@Newton-Reuther]

​@@4203105Since when did Italians stop being white?

[@ineriswetrust]

Please, never quit. The quality of this is so high it makes the whole experience exquisite. I love how the internet has made it possible for creators like you to just create.

[@KD_Oliveira]

Her videos are the ONLY piece of media ever for which I'd be willing to spend 3 complete hours (divided throughout an entire week tho) watching till the end. And being a ADHD delu-loser myself, I consider this a 100% true achievement. Congrats to her.

[@alveolate]

definitively a better love story than twilight.

[@benamisai-kham5892]

​@@KD_OliveiraI didn't realize this was even near 3 hours until I read your comment. I was just enjoying it so deeply and wasn't paying attention to how long its been; I'm an hour in 😂

[@louera]

right?? 🥹 Another creator I think y'all would appreciate is cjthex. He makes unexpected takes in a similar vein.

[@ToucanTorte]

It's like a miracle

[@laurenm3148]

"People think Furries are weird now, but your grandfather fought in World War II then came home and thought it was totally normal to be attracted to women dressed up like rabbits." That shook me UP holy shit

[@NIHIL_EGO]

Weebs into nekogirls are sweating and shaking rn.

[@HiddenDarkHM]

As a furry I have never felt more aggressively validated.

[@Flammifleure]

@@HiddenDarkHM Amen

[@sandrin0]

one of the best videos on this entire website honestly

[@dndndndndn419]

I love that vampires are like, “I’m immortal, I’m immortal,” and then their whole existence is just trying to not get killed.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

I have a feeling that if something like an “immortality injection” that stops aging was to be invented, that’s exactly what would happen to those that get it

[@ruffethereal1904]

It's funny how even in undeath, they still can't escape the permanence of your end, just in a different form.

[@juanitopantuflapantufla2605]

I mean, that's the whole point, they are anti natural leeches that should not be alive

[@awandererfromys1680]

It's rather hard to find but the 1987 film _Near Dark_ does a great take on that. It's dark, depressing, sad, and strips away all the romance surrounding vampires. One of the best vampire movies around imho.

[@leahscontemporary]

and then you have the twilight vampires that can't be killed without extremely effort

[@waytoobiased]

"This book is bad, but it's bad in a way that's legitimately fascinating" me when reading Plato's _Republic_

[@ContraPoints]

most of the philosophical canon tbh

[@Lucifersfursona]

Me talking about the source of almost every special interest I’ve ever had in my life:

[@Violaphobia]

@@ContraPoints”ok, but what if our tyrant was super based and banned all the bad art?”

[@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396]

The Symposium?

[@waytoobiased]

@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 haven't read that one yet

[@Lwasugoidesu]

I wish i could show this video to my 12 year old self, who stood up in front of her 7th grade english class and read out the essay she wrote on Edward Cullen’s Hero’s Journey. 😂

[@undertakr]

bless

[@wesleyhart1950]

You know what? Good for her. That took real bravery and some good old 12 year old enthusiasm. I bet she made some great points. 🤍

[@beafraid5467]

Honestly I applaud that 12 yo, I read twilight when I was 14 and I would never have the courage to do that in front of my peers.

[@celisewillis]

That is so sweet 😊 why do you think 12-yr-old you wrote about Edward's journey vs Bella?

[@xegenesis]

joseph campbell would be so proud

[@jcrcarter]

First time I’ve ever stood up and clapped at the end of a KZbin video. My dog is confused.

[@Probablylani]

HAHAHA

[@Undoublethinkful]

I really admire how Natalie refrained from making the obvious tasteless joke about filling in holes. It's that kind of taste that really commands respect for her craft and raises it to the level of true culture.

[@j4rrina]

very lady like of her

[@daimonos418]

I was shocked to learn that ladies might indeed, have _holes_. Well done Natalie on speaking no more of this distressing possibility.

[@qohelet8398]

Bible nerd popping in to add that the Greek word for resurrection is "anastasis" (ἀνάστασις). So on top of all the cruciform elements in the section on Fifty Shades, the two main characters are named Christian and Resurrection.

[@DarkishArchon]

Whoa

[@Anastasia_1467]

Nice

[@leokaptra]

😦

[@tonysunders1462]

OLVVV

[@estherflecksing6305]

Ok wait maybe the author is more of a genius than we thought? Like their names literally set them up for Christian to worship HER

[@GoWhereYoureCelebrated]

Hits on a true note how female “virtue” is considered more valuable than a girls life. This subtext is constantly written into the social concept of how girls are raised.

[@Tracey66]

That also speaks to how a fetus’ life is more important than a woman’s life. It’s right in the mix with a woman wouldn’t have gotten pregnant if she wasn’t a slut.

[@Solano1111]

this video has had such an effect on me in so many ways. watching it several times over the year while experiencing things and learning about some of the sources she uses has been something... thank you mother! life is a little better while experiencing your writings.

[@brooklea98]

"The Feminine Urge To Be Daddy's Mommy" hit my hurt/comfort-loving ass over the head like a brick

[@friskybitzboi]

Not Natalie psychoanalyzing my AO3 history-

[@sesil.t]

Exactly the comment i was gonna make!

[@XimenaGM]

me 💀😭

[@yaraa101]

I KNOW

[@AidaKittyBoy]

My bookmarks are NOTHING but reverse harem fantasies. I JUST dropped one because it suddenly stopped being interesting and I didn't know why- This video made me realize it's because all the suitors agreed to a polyamorous relationship over the course of a single chapter, and now all nine of them are peacefully dating the leading lady. Even the antagonistic, jealous boys stopped being so competitive and the fire is doused.

[@celisewillis]

​@@AidaKittyBoy danngggg. I love Why Choose too, hate when that happens. There is ALWAYS drama to be had! And jealousy is a normal part of any relationship, just zapping it away 100% of the time is weird. We don't become friends/partners with someone, and then suddenly everything is perfect after that 🙄

[@mxt3k]

I love how often in this it seems like you're strawmanning someone saying something outrageous and then cut directly to them saying the exact thing you implied they said

[@ruffethereal1904]

You cannot strawman someone who viciously, violently stuffs themselves with dried hay. The devolution and abandonment of dog whistles and euphemisms has been great in that they're easier to spot than ever, and terrifying in that they feel confident enough that they don't need to hide.

[@dfleck9210]

@@ruffethereal1904 > don't need to hand? Sure?

[@KetsubanSolo]

​@@ruffethereal1904dog whistlers can hand me any time

[@ruffethereal1904]

@@dfleck9210Thanks for pointing out the typo, it's been fixed.

[@lud3445]

@@ruffethereal1904 Oh thank you for the most amazing image you've put in my head. A snooty victorian man saying all that " _Ladies_ are naturally assexual" nonsense while going into a corn farm (because of course is corn) violently stuffing his clothes with hay, climbing up a wooden pole/ cross and tying himself up, and screaming his stupid thoughs to scare off the birds.

[@fgbpeiazijhn]

Can I just say how perfect the image of the happy family on the couch is? I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

[@ob1quixote]

In trying to figure out how to have relationships that didn't propagate systems of oppression, I have been looking for the idea that, "Fantasies are not literal wishes. Fantasies construct situations where emotional needs are met and inhibitions to pleasure are removed," for a while now. Thank you.

[@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801]

But sometimes fantasies are wishes. And sometimes toxic wishes become reality.

[@cosmo_junk]

​@@angelsunemtoledocabllero5801 that's not the point of this comment, this video, or twilight

[@Xeridanus]

Relationships can't propagate systems of oppression if that part of it stays in the bedroom. Do what makes you happy.

[@ob1quixote]

Also, sincere thanks for your Debussy at the end. And for owning a harpsichord.

[@JohnnyBGoode-xn9mo]

That feels a little too convenient, like it’s said to avoid thinking about something. It’s not like fantasy is 1 to 1 with your actual desires, but it didn’t just come out of nowhere.

[@anacrocommunism7177]

The most important thing I learned is that dolphins are above the law

[@ruffethereal1904]

The open water is truly a lawless place.

[@trunkage]

As nature intended

[@scarylion1roar]

So long and thanks for all the fish

[@MrTombombodil]

I can't believe she told the first funny "It's still a better love story than Twilight" joke I've heard in like 10 years.

[@funguy398]

Tbf a list of "better love stories than twilight" would be good. I suggest "Galili" from Clive Barker

[@Cinephileofmany]

As a male submissive I wholeheartedly enjoyed this. Amazing piece of work, and I’m not even that interested in Twilight!

[@sephoramandondo2548]

U gay

[@gracequeeney3399]

​@@sephoramandondo2548femdom is exist dude, sub men are my type

[@railway381]

Contra is lowkey one the funniest video essayists. There are a lot of essayists I like but their jokes feel painfully forced but I'm always giggling at her silly bits

[@midorirayray6421]

"If the boy is poor, there's no room on the door." had me cracking up out of nowhere. 😂

[@bajsunge1462]

I totally agree. Hbomb and Contra are the ones I actually find really funny

[@nondisclosure3920]

I don't think there's anything low key about her humour, she's really witty and sharp with her jokes. It's one of the reasons I love watching her content

[@mattiewiseman276]

what other essayists do you like? bc contra is my favorite girl everrrrr

[@spencerlively3049]

@@nondisclosure3920 not low key but definitely a dry humor

[@Monstrgoose]

"behind every cinderellla fantasy is a female will to power" is going to resonate in my mind for a long time

[@gionunez3598]

Nietzcheian concepts explained by a trans woman in a nuanced manner was not in my bingo card. My respect for Natalie has doubled.

[@angrylittledumpling]

The “we’re condemned to be free part” is so true. The confessional scene in Fleabag hit me so hard. The way she wanted someone to tell her what to do, wear, eat, etc. I felt that! And the dominance kneel command that followed was the cherry on the fantasy sundae.

[@sesil.t]

I was waiting for the mention of that scene!

[@celestelalianna7276]

yes! yes!

[@jessicaluk74]

Yes

[@smilleur]

This video is so concept dense (compared to what I think I know at least) that Ive had to watch it maybe 6 times already and im consistently getting more and more from it. Really cool video, thank you

[@timgreten67]

I sometimes feel that any comment I leave on a Contrapoints video is like a small child pointing at a painting, screaming 'COLOURS!' This was amazing. I need to let this soak for a while and then rewatch it again.

[@Cainly]

Oh your're so right

[@Space_Trucker]

I feel the same way! I try to always leave something though, in the hopes of giving at least a glimpse of just how profound an effect Contrapoints videos have on me.

[@myriamlang2701]

Exactly. It’s so dense in informations and reflections

[@lisalund6106]

So fucking true

[@numbersix8919]

It's possible that you are just that well-adjusted. It is possible according to Freud. The lady covers that case in her discussion of egalitarian sex.

[@Meghoowvve]

I am recently married. A heterosexual couple, we both have the same bachelor's degree, the same age, and kind of the same socioeconomic background. I was the one who proposed, and some people treat it like it is the greatest achievement of the feminist movement (I guess because it is a non-disruptive action, people feel comfortable celebrating), but for me and for my husband it was the most natural course of action for our relationship. He likes to be courted, he likes to feel wanted, and so do I. People always talk about how you become one, and it's always been difficult for me to understand because I am still me, and he is still himself, but we share our lives with each other to be happier. This is the first time I understand the concept. We are one not because we complement each other to be a whole, but because I can identify myself in him in the most deeply and intimate way and vice-versa. Great video, I can't believe you didn't quote the greatest line in cinema history: "Bella, where the hell have you been loca!"

[@DMHN84]

Hi, I liked your post and I’m puzzled about something, you say you husband likes to be courted and you too. In my mind, not minding the gender roles, it works easier when one of the two likes to be courted and the other likes to court. You think you both are like that in any measure?

[@Gnamgnam234]

I don't know what it is, maybe it's just me. I found your comment so touching that I bursted into tears

[@catc2938]

Whenever a girl proposes to a man it’s so sad. I don’t care about gender roles, I just think no man deserves for a women to propose to them. You’ll realize that eventually. I guarantee you people don’t treat that like a feminist movement when you tell them you did that. They probably just feel sorry for you.

[@Eukleides89]

@@catc2938 Wow what a condescending and rude reply. Consider that you have no place to comment on someone else’s relationship. They are happy because that is how things work for them.

[@c.6763]

@@catc2938 not you going full sheila jeffreys 😭

[@tannielover2321]

i just subjected myself to nearly three hours of painful, intensely personal psychoanalysis and societal, conceptual and religious deconstruction, and came out feeling seen and enlightened. how did you think to do all this through the lens of twilight? jokes aside, i am twilightened. definitely one of best videos you've ever made, if not the very best. thanks, natalie.

[@StepaniumSKY]

From what I understand the greek word eros meant "love of being one with something": one with nature, one with a cookie and yes, one with a lover. It's a broader definition than just the erotic love. You've grasped this concept later in the video when telling that romantic love is about boundaries and unity. I've thoroughly enjoyed your work, Natalie, thank you.

[@lacroustillenecroustillepl2637]

as a woman who most recently really found myself struggling with the duality of feelings in sexuality, these 3h therapy session healed my brain

[@deleted01]

wemon's seggshualitee: it's only abyooz when the guy's unattrucktive

[@SusyHawkes-Dighton]

​@@deleted01 great way to completely misunderstand the video!

[@lacroustillenecroustillepl2637]

@@deleted01 First, watch the video second, what i wrote had nothing to do with guys but you hear what you wanna hear i guess!

[@WitchOracle]

​@@deleted01 hey buddy, thanks for your contribution to the algorithm. Engagement really helps when Natalie can only publish sporadically, ya know?

[@arnavrawat9864]

What's the duality of feelings of sexuality? You feel both guilt and attraction? Or some shit

[@celestelalianna7276]

Her refusal to finish the "antici....pation" was absolutely despicable. Permanent cancellation effective immediately.

[@user-a2000]

it was a rocky horror p.s. reference

[@radioactivehalfrhyme]

Tom Cardy did the same thing in “Artificial Intelligence.”

[@overgrownkudzu]

@@user-a2000 yes but she never finished it

[@PhreeSoul]

That was the funniest moment! 😂 Natalies cult status upgraded to legendary, effective immediately!

[@murdermyinsanity]

Maybe it's our fault. We didn't yell "Say it! Say it!" loud enough.

[@lumiutopia]

as a straight woman who’s been into gay romance pretty much since my puberty started - you put it perfectly. aside from the obvious (attraction to the men involved), gay romance and smut allowed me to explore the exact things you laid out at the end without the unsafety, discomfort, alienation and imbalance that DHSM always made me feel, especially during my teenage years. feminine, masculine, top, bottom, dominance, submission, light, dark, love that feels ”equal” inside and out. feeling able to relate to either man in the story safely, instead of having to mentally wrestle with the problems of heterosexuality and male dominance (towards women) when im trying to enjoy romance or smut. fujoshism is pretty interesting from a psychological perspective lol

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

I'm not even straight (I'm bi, and graysexual) and that's still essentially exactly why I got so into M|M fiction myself too!. I would bet that it's likely why, even when there is no personal attraction-to or desire-for the guys present in the gals themselves, many lesbians are still sometimes pretty big fans of BxB or M/M fiction anyway. For me, personally, it's also why I was drawn especially toward Asian BL and fan[ or original] fictions that drew more heavily from Seme x Uke style dynamics[ /AND/OR on bdsm type concepts] than anything else. Because it opened so many more doors or avenues through which to explore and/or challenge physical roles(penetrating vs penetrates) versus personality types(dom vs sub) and such. In yaoi, the 'Strong'/'Powerful'/Seme(or Dom) partner performs oral on the 'Weaker'/Uke(or Sub) partner; while in Western stereotypes, it's basically reversed, and giving oral is seen more as an objectified or 'bottom' kinda thing. (Those kinds of subversions and/or dichotomies are everything to me.) In a similar vein, guy-guy(slash) fiction can also be a beneficial outlet for gals who may prefer to NOT identify with either partner, and thus kind of safely distance or dissociate themselves from the concepts or fantasies generally too. ((Either because they simply aren't allosexual themselves or because of trauma.)) It's very multipurpose.! 💖 😊

[@joyc.e.7511]

I'm bisexual and this is almost to the T how I feel. Great job capturing that, I didn't have the words😅.

[@artofapo]

To throw an extra layer here, without there being a female protagonist you can enjoy the romance story without comparing or critiquing them/yourself. Which is something woman struggle with hetero romances, if the woman is likeable or not for various reasons.

[@mikes8020]

Deeply deeply dysfunctional

[@jaginaiaelectrizs6341]

@@mikes8020 DHSM? Yeah, we know, it is. Finding it easier to explore certain concepts without imagining them potentially happening to yourself directly so you can think about them as more of a third-person neutral party or outside observer might do rather than potentially hitting things a little too close to home or such, though? That's not dysfunctional. It's often an important step in healing from trauma and/or in helping oneself more correctly identify one's own positive or negative biases and such, because it helps people gain more accurate perspective than they might have when thinking about things too personally or too immediately and directly involving themselves. It's actually quite healthy to try and consider things from the POV of more than just ourselves sometimes. (And let's be clear, DHSM can cause a lot of trauma, both on micro and macro scales.)

[@MillieLily13]

Wow such restraint and ladylike poise not talking about holes being filled ! Congrats !

[@Tori_irl]

"The feminine urge to be Daddy's Mommy" is gonna be living in my head paying $0 rent for days now.

[@pax6833]

That's definitely a quote

[@ltbq]

"I regret to inform you the cuck tent is racist" made me lose my entire mind

[@psychlops3394]

I will be joining you in this boat.

[@theodoravellum4589]

This perfectly sums up my need to dominate Daddies.

[@py_a_thon]

Isn't that just a variation of ancient greek philosophy? Specifically: Oedipus Rex?

[@CPFace]

"I can name at least three people who are attracted to men." This is my new favorite Natalie Wynn quote.

[@johnhenninger1980]

yeah, ''me myself and I''

[@Manelneedsaname]

More like Natalie Win amirite

[@Mene0]

2:39:48

[@perrodetokio]

And all three of them are men as well 😃

[@KieroSi]

@@perrodetokio JT Leroy?

[@fugman133]

This part hit me like a tonne of bricks: Masculine and feminine potential within us And it's more satisfying to express both Masculinity and femininity is a duality inherent to human existence. This is why trans women and feminine men are not appropriating womanhood. Woman is not an ethnic group. Masculinity and feminity belong to all humanity.

[@TheMidnightPirate]

infinitely beautiful part

[@danielamagalhaes7271]

Well, yes, and no. For instance if a trans woman (unfairly) participates in a women's sports league, then they are appropriating women's spaces.

[@celan4288]

It's almost like dividing humanity into discrete warring groups and imagining us locked in a zero sum game of shifting power dynamics is bad.

[@IExistSometimes]

​@@danielamagalhaes7271 If a trans woman (that is as distinct from a man pretending to be a woman) competes at an unfair advantage* in a women's category, they are cheating, and it is functionally no different than other performance enhancing drug/procedure abuse. If a man enters a women's space or facility and takes advantage of it (either by pretending to be a woman or otherwise, like that women in stem event in I believe India which got taken over by men who thought they'd have an easier time obtaining internships and networking because it was a women's event) then that thing is being appropriated. *That is to say, they haven't complied with the sport's regulations about time on testosterone blockers/oestrogen or whatever else may reasonably be required to bring them within normal afab variation.

[@yunglynda1326]

100% i feel like part of me knew this without words❤️‍🔥

[@Chris-ng8du]

i always love rewatching Natalie’s videos because there’s always something new to discover that i missed the first time. being a human is so confusing and i feel like watching her analysis at least gives me a better understanding of the human experience ❤

[@cassonthecob]

"Do men not have holes? DO MEN NOT HAVE HOLES????" I think this will be lodged in my brain forever, thank you Natalie

[@GaganSingh-nx2yv]

Men in fact do have holes. - Morgan freeman. I will see myself out now.

[@randomjunkohyeah1]

@@GaganSingh-nx2yv I can hear it so clearly lol

[@myfarts]

Timestamp?

[@michel0dy]

I've met a man before. I had the impression that they did, but I'm unsure now.

[@jaduspeaks4754]

This part of the video made such an impression on me that I took a screenshot to memorialize it. Makes me laugh whenever I scroll through my phone gallery.

[@SaraSpalding]

I think this is Contrapoint's most Contrapoints video. A true magnum opus.

[@wolfdragonhorse]

Until the next one anyway!

[@SaraSpalding]

Tbh, yeah probably.@@wolfdragonhorse

[@itsmj3103]

flop, contrapointseeeezzz

[@penguy-anime-bf]

Yes yes yes

[@Saphia_]

I thought you were Shaun (i.e. the skull guy) and you're not but you do have the same brand of soothing voice.

[@lukesills4939]

Natalie really has a gift for making her audience feel as insightful and intelligent as she is in these videos. Part of the experience of a Contrapoints video is Natalie saying something like "isn't ____ really a lot like ____?" and you're just nodding along like "yes! I, too, have connected the dots on this key psychological insight." But I haven't really. I probably never thought about it like that. But Natalie tricked me into thinking I could have thought it myself, and that's pretty neat

[@andynonymous6769]

Natalie really unlocks the hubris in me that I could have just come up with all this on my own :P

[@cescimes]

oh absolutely! and gonna be honest here - she singlehandedly reignited my passion for writing, because it is fun to analyze stuff, it is fun to draw parallels and unravel history threads

[@emdove]

She's the only person to ever make me want to buy and read non-fiction books*. I'd always looked down on social studies and the likes as "wishy-washy" that I couldn't get behind anyway, but she's made me see the error of my ways. She's made me realise that I can understand the concepts in these books (though it will require more work on my part without her breaking it down) and that it will change my perception of the world and myself. As an asexual person who's never fallen in love, this video is especially fascinating. I've seen so many analysis of Twilight, but no one went beyond the he surface like she does. *Normally my non-fiction book cravings are strictly about my own special interests, like that one book on Disney comics and imperialism. Or ones about rock music and gender.

[@Cat_Woods]

Now I will always picture Wickham being blown up in a flaming carriage whenever Lydia asks, "Isn't my husband a fine horseman?" Love it.

[@RandellMathilda]

Just realised she ended her last video saying ‘she’s switching to Twilight’ It wasn’t a joke

[@ilmareofthemaiar]

But I’m about halfway and there have been 2 HP references ..

[@Saphia_]

@@ilmareofthemaiar I am excited.

[@menedian]

I applaud Natalie's restraint in not spending half of this video gushing about Kristen Stewart. I know I wouldn't be so strong.

[@Reed5016]

I wouldn’t be able to have that restraint either.

[@napajwolf13]

Her recent photoshoot with the jockstrap had me all 🥵

[@polarfoxgirl]

I definitely did not pause this video on any photos of Kristen Steward :D

[@Reed5016]

@@polarfoxgirl I definitely didn’t pause the video multiple times either. Definitely not.

[@matthewhuntley8373]

She returns

[@R2r_1337]

❤❤❤

[@Strogman25]

Hark! The time long-prophesied is upon us!

[@Swiss6Made]

*HE returns

[@cartonriley]

​@@Swiss6MadeGroundbreaking. Transphobia. Wow- who would've thought?

[@Swiss6Made]

@@cartonriley Just being factual m, what’s your counter point? Lol