Contrepreneurs: The Mikkelsen Twins

Clickbait Title: I'm here to teach you about an unmissable business opportunity!
Thank you to Savy over at Savy Writes Books for helping out with this video - / savyleiser
Emma Thorne - The Mikkelsen Twins' "Publishing Life" Scam? - • The Mikkelsen Twins' "...
I spared everyone the part of the story where I got COVID and spent months recovering. A Skeptic's Guide to Hypnosis is available for you to read for free, the hitch is that it's been distributed to Patreon subscribers who have permission to hand out as many copies as they want.
Written and performed by Dan Olson
Crowdfunding: / foldablehuman
Twitter: / foldablehuman
00:00:00 Preface
00:05:03 GRIFTMAP
00:22:19 SAUSAGE FACTORY
00:34:12 I WROTE A BOOK
00:45:39 LET'S GET SOME CHARTS
01:01:11 SAVY WRITES BOOKS
01:11:00 LET'S WRAP THIS UP

[@NameAvailable]

“I’m here within 400 feet of an elementary school to prove the haters wrong!” Easily one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard

[@daltonbedore8396]

the implications being so vague fit the subject of this video perfectly

[@icedirt9658]

“I’m gonna get that 6th grade certificate!”

[@DaniBearID8]

It killed me.

[@merrittanimation7721]

“They told me I couldn’t [censored] a [censored] with a [censored] but I’ll show those Crayola [censored] just what hit ‘em!”

[@crisis8v88]

I interpreted it as something akin to, "that report about the restraining order was greatly exaggerated. I'm only prohibited from being closer than 200 feet to an elementary school."

[@lazyhammerwieldingpenguin2247]

Dan's not making passive income; he's making passive aggressive income.

[@jazwhoaskedforthis]

I love this comment

[@Lenariet]

Okay that made me crack up, thanks 😂

[@ems9616]

🤣🤣

[@JuiciferPandoraRex]

*aggressive aggressive

[@MorbidEel]

@@JuiciferPandoraRex active aggressive?

[@OhhCrapGuy]

As someone concerned with ethics, I am sickened by their efforts to rob people of their money. As an engineer, I am truly even more sickened by how just... fucking inefficient they are at robbing people.

[@arturoaguilar6002]

The grift specifically designed to sicken you from every possible aspect.

[@blakksheep736]

As an engineer in training, I find your last point hilarious. 😆

[@oscaranderson5719]

instead they could be hiring gig workers to develop shovelware co-op horror games! like seriously tho, there’s a billion easier alternatives.

[@user-wo4pj5bf6g]

Surprised with all of their pot use that have enough brain cells left to figure out to do this

[@mini_worx]

Hi! Can I ask, why is it that engineers are always eager to tell you they are engineers? It's such a weird thing and it happens a lot, like a lot.

[@Vellzi]

The analysis where Dan acknoledges how, in essence, he was playing "easy mode" with what was already an incredibly stressful and soul destroying task is amazingly awful. Just thinking about how much worse the situation would be if he actually had to deal with an editor, and having to buy groceries and truly needing the money.. This is truly horrific

[@joshuawittenberg8975]

That's what really caught me by surprise. It would have been so easy to look at all this, the work he had done, and assumed that was the average experience, to even assume that he had it tougher because people at the Urban Writers are professionals with more experience than him, and leave it at the fact that they are paid far too little. Instead, he went the extra distance, to emphasize that HE was the one with the advantage here, having the easier time. That's why I love this channel.

[@PhilosophyTube]

On one hand "A Sceptics Guide to Hypnosis" may only have sold one copy; on the other hand I did really enjoy it

[@lulucool45]

YOU

[@hjalfi]

I just searched Amazon for it and after typing "a sceptic's guide" it autocompleted.

[@brentwilson9566]

Now we just wait for it to be quoted in a future video/cited in a future bibliography.

[@Nenona1200]

I told him he's a good writer, and he clearly has a passion for learning about niche stuff like Hypnotism.

[@mariusvanc]

@@hjalfi Spooky.

[@maskofice9432]

"Amazon's best kept secret.... Audible" He missed his true calling as an actor because being able to say that with a straight face is legitimately impressive

[@helmaschine1885]

The colours matching in the logo (orange...) made me not even notice that inaccuracy.

[@groofay]

Amazon's best-kept secret: texting a random KZbinr's name to 500500.

[@idontevenknow9758]

I kept getting those ads forever and they look so old, like they were filmed in 2015 so I had a feeling it was a scam and then they said audible is new that was like the ding, this is a lie. Other KZbinrs also covered how this book scam has already dried up by 2019 as the policy changed.

[@alanfike]

"A door's best kept secret... a knob!"

[@merrittanimation7721]

Next you'll tell me about something even more obscure, like TikTok!

[@tansywhisker2547]

Their little rant about success is surreal. They tell you “Work three jobs, get your money, then get back to work.” As if having three jobs is not working

[@sealeo5772]

Especially because the whole reason the scam exists is to advertise a get rich easy scheme, but then as soon as they have your money they start talking about how if you fail it's because you're not trying hard enough and the solution is to give them even more money.

[@leobastian_]

its because telling people to quit their jobs and start throwing money at you isnt sustainable. So you gotta make them earn new money you can grift off of them

[@realkarfixer8208]

They want YOU to work three jobs, so THEY don't have too....

[@Ziobbe]

The sort of rich jackass who thinks "working" means "having a high income", and not, you know, "putting in the effort"

[@hastyscorpion]

This video came out right before the advent of chat gpt. I can’t help but think that the Mikkilesens have pretty much cut real people out of the writing process.

[@zawrator4457]

Most publications now check for Chatgtp, so likely not.

[@paultapping9510]

​@@zawrator4457 most legitimate publications, yes.

[@zawrator4457]

@@paultapping9510 They are semi reliant on legitimate ones, as they make money through numbers.

[@noesunyoutuber7680]

​@@zawrator4457 I highly doubt legitimate publishers are that important given how much the grift relies on Amazon self-publishing. Sure, these platforms might have some safeguards, but can they really tell the difference between an AI-written book and the derivative, low-thought work produced by poorly-paid ghostwriters? You might have to check the book for obvious logical errors produced by the AI's inability to fact-check, but you only have to do that if Amazon is having real people check your submission and I don't think that's plausible given the nature of their platform.

[@zawrator4457]

@@noesunyoutuber7680 Depends really on how they'll use it: if they just use it to cut existing corners and tell their ghost writers to just make deadlines earlier with AI, then you will likely not see much change. If they however overplay their hand (which I assume as the concept of "sustainability" doesn't exist for these people), and flood the marketplace with almost completely unedited garbage, then you'll absolutely see a crackdown.

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Dan coming for the online hustle productivity passive income culture was something I desperately hoped for after the crypto grifto video, and it’s glorious to behold

[@drgrey7026]

He basically pulled a reverse coffeezilla.

[@agentdarkboote]

I see you in the comments sections of all of my favorite creators videos. It's freaking me out.

[@h__r]

Hi Rohin

[@jclwhite]

Yes but did you know you can $500 A DAY from home trading crypto?! I'm already doing it ~ 🍀 🌟 🍀 ~

[@jclwhite]

I use this ONE simple trick, I.....waste everyone's time with joke comments, hi Rohin love the channel

[@TalkingVidya]

"The crystal healing community deserves better than these two" That's... Bleak

[@miguel_vlzqz]

Miren, es el tío Danny

[@phastinemoon]

I take it as a compliment - the people I know who are into crystal healing would rather buy a book written by someone who WANTS to write it, has an interest in the subject, and is actually getting paid for their work. It’s basically the realm of “yeah, this is objectively a waste of time and money, but it’s making someone happy to have it, and I’d rather buy this thing from someone who made it themselves and pay them fairly for it!”

[@pinkcupcake4717]

No one likes having their hobby exploited by greedy douchebags for a quick buck. From knitting to magic crystals.

[@Brent-jj6qi]

God bless the crystal healing people, it’s like a cheat code for making spell components for a TTRPG

[@tomlxyz]

Everytime someone trains people to be apparently a competitor to themselves you can safely assume it's not working anymore

[@gregfisher4147]

That or there's some kind of scam hidden in the pitch

[@TKUltra971]

Reminds me of all the old real estate 'become a millionaire' hour long inofmericals of the 90s from overly tan men from Florida. They are selling you ideas in the housing market that hasn't worked since the early 90s or late 80s lol.

[@beliefalchemist]

Great point! If it is so good, why bother with courses which are 100 times harder to produce.

[@kathorsees]

How about an artist teaching others to draw?

[@Saphia_]

I remember watching a KZbin video about get rich quick/become a millionaire/passive income courses and the person making the video said something along the lines of "if somebody says they're going to teach you how they got rich, it's because their method doesn't work anymore" and that is something that I don't think I'll ever forget. I think it was a video about Andrew Tate's Hustle University or whatever.

[@flameraven42]

"Even if you're a little unsure, please hand us $2000 immediately." Holy crap. Who even has $2k to just spend?

[@Crypted112]

people who already have a decent amount of cash but want more and are either desperate or have more money than sense

[@luckygoat1810]

They don't care if you have 2k or not, they want you to go into debt if you don't have 2k on hand

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

Fools that will go into debt/not pay rent thinking they can double their money.

[@suspectsn0thing]

Based on some of the more mask-off predatory televangelist speeches I've heard: people who have 2k but need to pay a 6k bill "You don't have enough to pay it off anyway! Just give it to me and I'll help you turn it into THIRTY grand, honest! What do you have to lose?" essentially. Occasionally they'll slip up and say it very blatantly like that.

[@appalachiabrauchfrau]

I don't even like putting 1k into series I bonds annually even though they're a pretty reliable way to grow that investment. That's like... a whole AKC working breed puppy, or four goats, or a good tabletop printmaking press. But these chuckle heads can't handle waiting for bonds to mature and they're addicted to risk, so weird courses are somehow a better investment to them and they're hunky dory taking out dangerous high interest personal loans to pay for them. I'm waiting for loan sharks to do us a favor and start giving a longing side eye to concrete mix like the old days.

[@ThatMarcusTerritory]

I'd like to note a few things about Dan's degree as a Worth Decider: 1. It's from "University IN Delaware" 2. It was awarded in "Newark, Vanuatu" (i.e. see the That Time Geocentrist Tricked a Bunch of Physicists Video; it's a country popular with degree mills) 3. It's dated the 32nd day of October 4. (My favourite) It's signed by Nelson Mandela and Ted Kaczynski God I love this man.

[@Demi_Purple]

I was today years old when I learned "degree mills" is a phrase that exists

[@jenny_azoth]

the font alone had me wheezing

[@hyche_-6790]

@@jenny_azoth the fucking yakuza font 😭 *Chairman of the cabin clan: Ted Kazynski*

[@wea69420]

He's so good at hiding his posting power level

[@jenny_azoth]

it's over 25,000!!! (words in a single month)

[@michaelramon2411]

Me: "I wonder what Dan Olson's been up to since that big NFT video?" Dan: *furiously writing a terrible nonsense book on purpose and driving himself insane in the process*

[@ecyor0]

It makes the confident claims of crypto bros saying "oh yeah, he went into hiding because we owned him so bad" even funnier.

[@franzhopper7631]

@@ecyor0 Was that a thing?

[@ecyor0]

@@franzhopper7631 not a huge thing, no, but there were some isolated comments here and there.

[@jackuval9362]

after an insane algorithm success like Line Goes Up, he knew damn well that he needed to follow through with another banger and secure those subs, and by god he did it. That is what you're supposed to do btw, so people don't think the blow-up video was a fluke or something

[@Ooknabah]

But he had in search of a flat earth before that! Hopefully no one moves any more goal posts

[@LoneWolf343]

Plot twist: this whole video was a clever and elaborate ad for "The Skeptic's Guide to Hypnosis."

[@biguattipoptropica]

The introduction was all based on REAL ads that were super prevalent during covid, when KZbin was desperate for advertisers. The audio was unmistakably and uniquely horrible in each, and he absolutely nailed mocking everyone’s pitch. There really was a shirtless guy in front of a bad greenscreen promising ridiculous returns (I think he was high). Strange times.

[@paulmahoney7619]

I think it’s an under considered investment strategy: some shirtless guy’s magic powers.

[@NegaLomie]

Now I almost regret having yt premium

[@nob2243]

Ads? What's that? _(looks around confused, with a simple adblock installed and running in the background)_

[@Dylan_Platt]

@@nob2243 ah yes, I too enjoy partaking of KZbinrs' hard work while ensuring they aren't allowed to make any financial recompense from my having done so. I want all the channels i enjoy to collapse, because I'm a fucking clown.

[@flyingstonemon3564]

They're still around! I still see them to this day, just not in English and very much still just scrapping off every trend and problem old or new, I fear for the people who fall into these

[@marissarae]

Dan striding on screen with a mostly gray beard, a sensible sunhat, and using the word "nonsense" in the first sentence -- peak dad energy.

[@Dethmaster64]

He must have stumbled on screen because someone messed with his thermostat

[@janosrock]

I swear to god i thought he was terry Pratchett

[@sugarbugx3564]

Looks exactly like my Dad.

[@chainswordcs]

as someone who's 20 i agree and i love it lol

[@Xepscern]

The only bigger Dad move was then strolling out on screen shirtless to give life advice

[@csujake]

Blurring out just one of the twins' faces is an underrated joke.

[@tiredprincess451]

it’s like in arrested development when they blur one of andy richter’s identical quintuplet’s faces because he doesn’t want it shown

[@carlsoll]

Lol I just got that

[@nitehawk86]

Then saying "I don't know if I blurred out the right one" is an excellent diss.

[@jmgerraughty]

@@tiredprincess451 Shit, I didn't realize that until now -- I bet if I start watching again, there will *still* be 100 things I missed

[@doomgoblin9061]

@@tiredprincess451 thank you so much. I read OPs comment before I got to that part in the video and so I think I was trying too hard to see the joke because I couldn't get it. Then I came back and read your comment and now it's so obvious.

[@MoonMoverGaming]

Okay, listen. I know these are bad people and we shouldn't support them in any way. But, "Stocisim for Pussies" is the greatest book title of all time.

[@candyh4284]

It's so upsetting knowing that that book is almost certainly filled with nothing remotely resembling genuine stoic philosophy, because I would do so much better with that title.......

[@Human_Enthusiast]

I mean to be fair they didn’t write it

[@Adam-yr2nq]

@@candyh4284 They don't have a copyright on the title -- it would be fun to take that title and make something actually good out of it.

[@llynxfyremusic]

Make it a parody of the manosphere talking points but then have actually good advice

[@helenaroman1543]

OMG. lol

[@Flameclaw123]

When I worked with The Urban Writers as a ghostwriter, the Mikkelsen Twins featured our company as one of the ones they liked to use for their grift to get books written quickly and cheaply like you mentioned in the book. For whatever reason, the higher-ups apparently saw this as a compliment and proudly let us all know, which I guess then later turned into "friends of the CEO". That was about when I realized I needed to quit and find a job that paid better/valued my time and energy more lmao Also, you're right: we used to have no contact with the person who placed the book order, and could just write the book and pass it along. Then 2 years into my stint there they shoved the burden of interfacing with the customers on us, PLUS constant revisions through the platform's chat and edit features. As one of their higher tier writers, I was repeatedly pressured to take on multiple 30k+ word books at a time, sometimes meaning I was writing for 10 or more hours straight every day with no days off. In short, it was a terrible place to work that gave me burnout I am still recovering from to this day Sidenote, the advice the Mikkelsen Twins give people for how to write outlines to pass along to the ghostwriters is horrible and made these clients a hundred times more annoying to deal with than if they had just given us nothing but a title

[@Flameclaw123]

Also yeah, TUW does not care at all about factual inaccuracies. I was paid to write a cookbook for the Carnivore Diet (I am not proud of this, but I had rent to pay). Finding citations for that book sure was fun

[@gayofreckoning6302]

I know I can't judge how people get by. I'm happy you have been able to move on and best of luck with the burn out recovery.

[@scottgreen132]

Why is a client with an outline worse to deal with as opposed to those who just have a book title?

[@thepassingstatic6268]

​@@scottgreen132 If I had to guess, I would assume ALOT of micromanaging would go into that outline

[@LeafseasonMagbag]

Holy shit a real Urban Writer, I was wondering if someone with personal experience in this scam would see this video. What about their outlines made the Mikkelsen twin’s students so bad?

[@tomboy2980]

The fact that Dan didn't title this video "I Forced Myself to Write a Book About a Topic I Knew Nothing About- in Less Than a Month" shows a level of journalistic integrity I don't think this platform deserves. Stellar video as always

[@sharkofjoy]

this comment made me laugh and made me sad at the same time.

[@DemonLordSparda]

There'd probably be more journalistic integrity if journalism wasn't an elaborate capitalist grift. Hey write articles of a certain length within this time period to get paid. The ones who pay the journalists don't contribute either.

[@dustrose8101]

Feels like that alt title is missing a "and Here's Why" at the end

[@scythermantis]

He's the cranky Communist Uncle we need, but not the one we deserve

[@vanilloia7479]

that and the amazingly anti-clickbait thumbnail. i'd seen it a couple times but ignored it because i thought the algorythm was showing me...some dude in a field. probably wants to sell me something. no thanks

[@elinobenjamin]

I love how contrived the poster board bit was cause the charts were animated so he could've easily just used the blank wall behind him but he paid $10 for the board to do the bit

[@maxrona137]

Folding Board Ideas

[@stampede274]

I think Dan might have been referencing Quinton Reviews with the combination of corkboard+animations.

[@itsmebeter3538]

that’s the real dedication and commitment i wait to see every six or so months.

[@ethanmelton576]

How else can he prove he's put in more effort than the Mikkelsens.

[@lukek5909]

Listen if you have the chance to make a spiderweb of interconnected relationships with strings and pictures like a detective chasing down leads in a cold case you don't pass it up

[@SirPhysics]

Every time I watch this the line "And that's how you're able to live in Bali?" hits me like a ton of bricks. I know they're trying to say that they can afford to live in a fancy tropical location, but the cost of living in Bali is literally half of what it is in the US. It's not the flex they want it to be.

[@Roler42]

Because they're dumb simpletons they probably see it in the same light and energy as when they proclaim how exciting it is to have a real "Radio broadcaster" narrating their garbage books like it's a badge of honor.

[@trouty606]

Their core audience are the fundamentally incurious and uncritical, so they're relying on them hearing "Bali" and just painting a picture of some tropical paradise full of rich people because they don't know anything about countries outside the US.

[@beforethelawstandsadoorkee7904]

It isn’t anymore thanks to people like them

[@alexernst9448]

Immediately after watching this I got bombarded by ads promising a "legal way to steal gas from gas stations". 10/10 algorithm

[@None-Trick_Pony]

It's easy in these short steps: 1) Drive up to pump 2) Drive INTO pump 3) Threaten to sue if they don't give you free gas 4) Flee and repeat at other gas station if they call the cops

[@abdalln8554]

​@@None-Trick_PonyRicky get off the internet

[@None-Trick_Pony]

@@abdalln8554 YOU get off the internet, Julian

[@None-Trick_Pony]

@@abdalln8554 No YOU get off the internet, Julian!

[@Pellaaearien]

"Get a second job, get a third job" says the guy who wrote a book about walking out on his job and smoking pot for a month

[@Cobalt985]

3 months even!! absolutely no shame

[@user-qd8yy9lc4g]

That's the best strat, just do light jobs until you stumble on winning combination of scaming the system until your clownery is exiled, after which you become an MLM and talk bullshit for a living. Only thing missing is benefit to anyone,

[@timothymclean]

"The difference between you and me is that I had enough money that I didn't _need_ three jobs. Which is definitely because of my hard work and talent, not because of family wealth or anything!"

[@rocketstone9911]

bold of you to assume he wrote it himself

[@Kotorichan]

Quitting is for losers! Unless it's me! And don't tell my parents ok?

[@SuperheroChuck]

"I'm here within 400 feet of an elementary school to prove the haters wrong" had me on the FLOOR

[@EngineerLume]

Dan dropping a "Registered Sex Offender" joke within the first minute or two in a video about shady hucksters is why he is a God-Tier Worth Decider

[@nvan7891]

@@JohnnyBGoode-xn9mo that's cheating

[@Mivaman]

Oh my god, I think it's THIS guy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r2WWp4p7hdCWm68 ...what a weirdly specific reference.

[@diegobrandomtg]

@@Mivaman I don’t think it specifically is, but that is a certified classic RLM clip

[@taimatsuko]

I regularly rewatch this video just for this line 🤣🤣🤣

[@memekingk373]

The fact that there has been two guys saying 'Hey you could just like use slave labor to barely make money' and are still walking free is insane

[@zawrator4457]

They are advertising a legal service sadly, so nothing will happen to them.

[@ps1hagridoufofcharacter]

it's not slavery, but it is exploitation

[@VultureSkins]

It’s not actually slavery. It’s not right, either, but don’t equate the two. Also, imagine how many other things would get you arrested if you couldn’t say that. That’s completely irrational lol

[@adequatelytrying6568]

SLAVE LABOUR IS NOT THE SAME AS SLAVERY YA GENIUSES IN THE REPLIES

[@anthonybowman3423]

​@@adequatelytrying6568 You're technically not wrong, but by definition slave labour is the labour of slaves. So it is inextricably a part of slavery. You can't have slave labour without slaves. And you can't have slaves without slavery. It is definitionally true. But yes, slave labour isn't slavery. Much in the same way that haunting is not ghosts. It's just something done BY ghosts.

[@loorthedarkelf8353]

When I was an adolescent and had just discovered the ability to write words and be understood by a reader, my mother thought the most helpful thing she could do was give me the notes for the book she never managed to write while ALSO telling me I should NEVER share my ideas with others; I should assume that they're out to steal my ideas. I found this... Weird and hypocritical. I never agreed to write anything for her. I was 13 and just discovering the fun, and she handed me a fucking writing assignment and told me my ideas were pure gold but also never to speak them aloud. Then she started giving me Writers Digest magazines every month. I tried to read them, but it was all about marketing yourself to an agent. What parts of your Work need to be edited down, what things you need to cut before you've even been seen IN HOPES of being seen. None of it was writing advice for other writers talking shop-- just how to sell it. I became deeply insecure in my ability. I had no desire to sell, I just wanted to tell a story. I escaped to the realm of FanFiction where there is no publishing pressure- or, at least, not ECONOMIC publishing pressure. The question I got asked over and over and over was When Are You Going To Write Something You Can Sell? This grift feels like a fully weaponized version of that pressure.

[@clev7989]

I am a bit late, but I relate to this experience deeply. To this day, I feel the pressure to make money making art, rather than what I want to do for my own sake

[@whatsthatnoise5955]

​​@@clev7989eah, I get this too. Every time I try to talk about art with family, girlfriend or even friends the conversation almost immediately veers into "how can you make money from that?" It's like... hmmm... How can i make money from an avante garde piece of music for three microtonally detuned trumpets? Jeez, that wasn't really my main focus tbh.I guess they're just trying to relate to something they don't understand but it feels like an accusation hahaha

[@clev7989]

@What's That Noise? oh, definitely!! I hope you have a blast making music, btw

[@maryrose5246]

You should take a creative writing class at a community college and have fun. I've been taking those for years.

[@claytonharbaugh308]

@@maryrose5246yeah, the one I took was a blast. The first half was discussing writing advice in the meetings and doing exercises outside the meetings and the second half was a workshop where we got to share our works with the class. Kinda made me wish the college I went to had more classes like that lol.

[@GdoubleWB]

If anyone ever doubts that Dan Olson is one of the KZbin GOATs, just remember that he wrote an entire book on a subject outside of his field just for a video essay. What a king.

[@lukejodrey]

Dude did what a lot of people say is their dream to do. As a bit.

[@markcarls1896]

If that's what makes a king, I'd prefer a representational democracy.

[@justhearmeout3959]

@@markcarls1896 FWIW democracy gave us Donald Trump, who also "wrote" a book about something he knew little about 🤣

[@actualhyena]

I like how he took his video essay writing skills into consideration but basically had to approach the concept sideways as to not let his writing style get in the way of his ghostwriting style.

[@christianlarson4201]

​@@justhearmeout3959 FWIW representational democracy is hardly democracy.

[@mollymontgomery4565]

"I'm here within 400 feet of an elementary school to prove the haters wrong" is such a rollercoaster of a sentence that i've literally been laughing at it on and off for the past three weeks

[@aud7593]

one of those sentences i get stuck in my head, especially with the inflection, and have to FIGHT my brain to not say out loud hhhh

[@JeanMarceaux]

@@aud7593 EEEEEEEEEEE _MOTIO_ *NAL* *_dÆÆÆMagE_*

[@aud7593]

@@JeanMarceaux DONT GIVE ME ANOTHER BRAINWORM 😭😭😭

[@hexlart8481]

I'm laughing about it months later.

[@kadabraguy9846]

Gotta say, this video saved me from falling into the work Scott and Dan were roped into. After five months of being unemployed I considered joining a freelance writing company and found the Urban Writers. I thought the name sounded familiar and remembered this video, where Dan outlines how they pay basically nothing for all of your work. It helped me avoid a lot of stress and I've now found something more sustainable

[@froggieperson6654]

the naked man with 500% APY is strangely trustworthy. i believe him and his nakedness

[@emachine310]

He's already the shirt off his back. Doesn't get anymore trustworthy than that

[@ArDeeMee]

He‘s got nothing to hide. 👍

[@Maxicarnahan]

Dan Olson is in the "internet grifter bounty hunter" phase of his KZbin career, and I couldn't be happier

[@scottkirby5016]

Not where I saw the guy talking about movies with a square paper puppet on dowels going with his channel but I'm here for it.

[@TheBreaded]

Need a Folding Ideas \ Nerd City collab.

[@ThePigsmasher]

content cop but smarter

[@theantithesis1]

Who's next? Lana Rhodes? Tommy Tallarico?

[@SamAronow]

@@theantithesis1 Drew Gooden's been doing it on and off for years.

[@damongarsson1189]

I’m a writer. Every year, I participate in NaNoWriMo - a community novel writing ‘contest’ where people challenge themselves to slam out a 30,000 word rough draft in 30 days. It’s an experience I find incredibly valuable! …as a once-a-year, for-fun exercise that I’ll spend the next several months recovering from. But repeating that process again and again, month after month, scrawling out some grifter’s nonsense for next to no pay? That’s how you grind yourself to death. What an honest-to-god nightmare.

[@Nsmith666]

I did the 50,000 word version and even though it’s fiction it was still a grind to finish and I have still not finished editing my story many years later lol

[@phastinemoon]

FR ! I went to the after party in my first year (remember those? In the before times?). That was at least a great opportunity to get feedback, editing advice, that kind of stuff! It’s FUN, when it’s a once-a-year, fiction, under your control, kinda experience! When you don’t have ANY choice or control, and your budget is dependent on it, that becomes a goddamn hellscape.

[@nothajzl]

Once a year event that lasts 30 days haha😅

[@jylietmaddyzpires2442]

(quick correction: the challenge is 50k, not 30k) this is what i was thinking this whole time, too. the methods you need to do to win nano are exactly what dan's describing here. and it's miserable. something that i don't think he mentioned really was just how much time it takes away from everything else. people meal prep for nano. people tell all their friends they can't hang out for a while because they have to spend all their time writing. people plan commitments around november all year round because they know they'll participate. so, if you're scott, not only are you forced to write that much, to churn out that much garbage for no pay, but the rest of your life is on hold. forever.

[@maximeteppe7627]

@@nothajzl An event doesn't have to last less than 24h hrs.

[@Turtlesrule6]

It's kinda scary how similar the experience of writing that book seemed to be to struggling through several university essays at once under extreme time pressure; the suffering. the sighing, the sitting around in a robe, the close watch of the agonisingly immoveable word count, the pain of research eating up so much time while said word count remains stagnant, the motivation death and 'I'd rather die than look at the document', the fact that even when you aren't actively working on it it eats up your soul with stress and kinda consumes the rest of your life, the extreme difficulty of having to jump between topics (between different yet similar essays) and reframe your focus every time, even the incredibly specific 'heyyyy, I haven't written the introduction or conclusion yet! Free words!'. Makes me extremely sympathetic for Scott and these kinds of writers - getting anything done under these kinda conditions is hell, and I only had to deal with it for a week and with about 5,500 words overall. It may have been for my degree, and that may have been stressful, but I wasn't worried about whether or not I could EAT this month, and once it was done, it was done, I could stop. They have to keep going, and going, and going. I couldn't imagine that being my life.

[@minimooster7258]

For my degree, I had to over 2 years write 3 short researched articles about a given topic. They were all like 20'000-30'000 words (we usually worked in pairs). The 2 weeks before it was due were always hell

[@Ziobbe]

At the end of my 7th semester (Engineering), I had *three* 60-page reports due in the same week, each on a different topic. Even as a hobbyist writer, that was the hardest I've ever felt writing could be. It burned me out halfway through the papers, and I remained burned out for most of the entire break between semesters. How to write without burning yourself out is a big research topic for me, and I've found some things that work best; - Find intrinsic motivation, such as the joy of expressing yourself. Do not trust extrinsic motivation, such as money, grades, or recognition, which are like setting your house on fire to stay warm. - Do not hold yourself to a productivity goal. Shun "productivity", and let yourself write as much or as little as you have in you. This will likely make you afraid; afraid that without fear and pushing yourself hard, you won't accomplish anything. But you have to, because if you keep pushing yourself with harsh feelings and fear, burnout is the only possible outcome. - After every hour of writing, and after everything you complete, look back and find at least 3 things you're proud of or happy you wrote. This is actually an exercise to build self-esteem recommended by my therapist, and it works wonders.

[@audreyjamieson573]

I am embarrassed to admit i got roped into working for the Urban Writers as an editor. I was very new to the industry and while i felt like i was being absolutely robbed for my time and skill (0.03 cents/word or about 3.75/hour on a good day), i also felt like i had no right to complain because "at least i have a job, right?" It absolutely sickens me that companies like TUW prey not only on young, inexperienced people, but that they also prey on scarcity mindset and the "grind mentality" that is part and parcel with all capitalist spaces.

[@placeholderdoe]

Never feel embarrassed, you were taken advantage of. You should feel proud that you lived despite that, they did the bad thing they should be embarrassed

[@retromint]

Whoever Scott is, wherever he may be, I deeply hope that he ends up in a better situation eventually. Hell, I hope that all of these poor ghostwriters get to be in a better situation.

[@Tetragrammaton22]

This exploitative ghost writing company seems like a unique case but in reality this is just the way capitalism is structured. This is the system working as intended. It's actually a pretty good scenario for where worker-ownership would be quite easy to envision. The ghostwriters collectively owning the (or a) company for all of their benefit.

[@CalebTibster]

@@Tetragrammaton22 UNIONIZE THE GHOSTWRITERS!!!

[@xTheMidlanderx]

Thanks, my guy. I hope the best for you, too.

[@Bongo1020]

All the Ghost Writers retired to a nice farm upstate. No we cannot go visit.

[@emmy8526]

Often these are people who are limited in employment options due to illness, disability or family situations. It’s taking advantage of desperate people.

[@alisdraws]

"i didn't publish them yet cause I'm just too busy" is the funniest thing anyone of those hustle culture gurus ever said hands down

[@Blaurot]

He is just hustling too hard 🤣

[@dg674]

Working so hard you forget to make money 💪

[@k80_]

he can’t take time off grinding

[@jordanmcgrory2171]

I dunno. I think at a certain stage of the grift, staying one step ahead of your marks could itself become quite time consuming. Like the modern equivalent of having to leave town in a hurry.

[@ruthbaston5348]

I loved writing growing up, lots of short stories, screenplays even. So I naturally gravitated towards a job as a ghostwriter. Your segment on that, and the mental math about "if I finish this in two weeks maybe I'll make 500 this month" gave me painful flashbacks. Ghostwriting for a few years put me in such a deep burnout that I haven't written since I was 24. I'll be 29 on May 20 and I still recoil when I see a word processing program. It has made my passion into one of my biggest triggers. That segment hit real hard.

[@janagax]

That's honestly heartbreaking

[@blcksu6011]

I feel so sorry for you, I hope you can enjoy your passion again and I hope you will get all the acknowlegment for your art that you wish for ❤❤❤

[@Alkimodon]

I'm so sorry.

[@phastinemoon]

Fwiw- you described it very well, in your word choices and sentence structure (silly, I know - but requires real skill) so I hope you still know that you do at least have some talent, and I hope you can rediscover your love for it. Maybe, writing by hand for just a few days, and reading things that make you happy. I’m always sad when someone feels hurt by something that used to bring them joy.

[@kylewarne1265]

I hope one day you can find your passion for writing again, or barring that a new passion to express your creativity. It's tragic to have it mined into a traumatic experience. I understand too well how easily that can happen.

[@owangejewice]

I once bought an audiobook on audible using a credit from the monthly subscription. It was called "Unfuck your life". I've had so much fun with it, not because it taught me anything or even because it made me think but rather because it was so void of any measurable value that I just kept listening in awe to see how far the "author" was willing to go into the abyss of banality. I simply could not believe someone spent that much energy on not spending energy. Should've broke a rule of thermodynamics.

[@thedandyhighwayman8069]

I realize it's been 6 months, but I have to commiserate with you. That is one of my mother's favorite books, and I swear to God it is one of the most intellectually vapid things I have ever encountered. All those "self help" books are pretty much a dime a dozen when it comes to stuff like that.

[@devononair]

Maybe there are people out there who genuinely benefit from these things. I think most people have some knowledge that many other people don't have, whether it's how to cook certain meals, how not to procrastinate etc. I think even seemingly vapid books probably help someone. That said, there are probably much better books out there they could be reading!

[@Glitch_Man42]

This reminds me of a side quest in Yakuza Kiwami 2, where the main character saves a politician who wrote a bestselling self-help book and gives it to the MC for saving him. He reads it and concludes it is vapid garbage. Later, he comes across a guy whose life has turned to crap. He gives him the book, and he ALSO thinks it's vapid garbage and gains a confidence boost because of how shit this best seller.

[@blakksheep736]

​@@Glitch_Man42 ah yes. Motivational disappointment. If something this bad can make it, so can I.

[@magicrainbowkitties1023]

That's actually a whole series. My dad's been trying to get me to read "Unfuck Your Anxiety" since I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder

[@jonathanentwisle6282]

What we didn't realise is Dan's entire KZbin career has just been leading up to do product placement for a skeptics guide to hypnosis

[@DemonLordSparda]

What a long con. I respect it.

[@joeiechristiansantana9641]

@@DemonLordSparda You could say he's a... contrepeneur. Sorry, bad joke, gotta go jump in Minecraft.

[@QPass-jx1fo]

@@joeiechristiansantana9641 Don't forget to not do a "colonialism"

[@FrankMcFuzz1]

He didn't even advertise or provide any links for us to buy it. I had to google it and still finding it is a struggle. I've been thinking about that for a week. The ethics on this guy lol

[@markfelt5650]

I KNEW IT WAS A GRIFT!

[@ValkyrieTiara]

"Nothing stings quite as much as spending a whole bunch of time tracking down some obscure 19th century text only to then spend several more hours reading it only to THEN come to the conclusion that it contains no insights, no new information, and is incredibly poorly written and not worth quoting." CGP Grey has entered the chat. P.S. As a writer, my heart broke when you said $0.01 a word. $250 for 25,000 words should legitimately be illegal.

[@timothymclean]

That's why the gig economy doesn't pay by the hour. It's easy to set an hourly minimum wage, but _way_ harder to set minimum wages per-word or per-trip or whatever. If you can type just 50 words per minute, and a lot of people can type twice that, you can theoretically get $30/hour off of a penny per word! Never mind that most writers spend at least an order of magnitude more time figuring out _what_ to write than actually typing-we've got the math to defend ourselves right in court!

[@ExaggeratedRebellion]

I write copy for a living, and while I was expecting the pay to be low, I wasn’t expecting it to be THAT low. Jesus.

[@Sumtimreh]

Isn't that the amount L. Ron Hubbard got for his pulp fiction, which is the reason he was so prolific?

[@jessehunter362]

@@Sumtimreh inflation

[@bossdunkz]

@@timothymclean I mean I support your enthusiasm to attack the Gig economy (which is just a way of circumventing formal employee-employer relationships in which employees have rights by calling de facto employees "contractors), but there's a reason that knowledge work, which is what OP describes, isn't a big hit on taskrabbit. That sort of work is totally ill-suited for even "perform X task for Y money" ("piece work") as it's entirely possible that the initial request turns out to be infeasible or impossible after sinking 10s, or even 100s of hours.

[@TheJohnnyCalifornia]

Jeez - pulp writers in the 30's - during the depression - made 5 to 10 cents per word, many times more than the ghostwriters in this set up. And back then, a nickel would buy a cup of coffee. They are making 1 cent per word today when a cup of coffee could cost five bucks.

[@MoonShadowWolfe]

This needs to be a meme series. Gig job pay breakdown per hour < Value of a dollar in America 1930-never I'll get right on it when I have time next we ... month ...

[@TheDominionOfElites]

You've got your numbers a bit off. I highly doubt any or many writers in the 30s were making 10 cents per word. H.P. Lovecraft made about 0.5-1 cent per word at the peak of his career and struggled with money all his life. Pay scales lower than 0.01 of a cent weren't unheard of. Guys weren't getting coffee for writing 2-3 words man.

[@phastinemoon]

@@TheDominionOfElitesLovecraft is a BAD example, since he was a “novelist” - or, at minimum, not a PULP writer. A comparable example would be the people writing dime-store novels. Y’know - the stuff that was crap, but people bought it because it was entertaining.

[@doktorwyvern2883]

​@@phastinemoonThat's wildly incorrect, the majority of Lovecraft's work was published by Weird Tales and other pulp magazines. He absolutely was a pulp writer, he only wrote 3 novels which were all quite short.

[@derfvcderfvc8714]

​@@TheDominionOfElitesright! The shit that gets up voted. This a KZbin channel of viewers that pride themselves in how much smarter they are than others. Then they upvote shit that's clearly wrong.

[@RealStuntPanda]

My daddy told me when I was a boy, "Boy, you know how to make a dollar easy?" Me as a boy, "I don't know Daddy, tell me how." Daddy said, "Give me a dollar and I'll tell you."

[@thepassingstatic6268]

"A fool and their money is soon parted"

[@Prakuza]

As a ghostwriter who's first client paid me $50 for every 10,000 words, I feel for Scott.

[@sleepyheadsarah]

That's rough buddy.

[@Sock-Puppet]

$50 for a 10k word book over here, I cried throughout that section. Scott was the GOAT! Ghostwriting right now is so murky and dangerous

[@ophello]

*Whose. “Who’s” means “who is.” Might explain your writing career.

[@FlackNCoke]

Wait so I can get you to write my shitty grift book for only HALF what Urban Writers would charge? You may have just secured yourself a client!

[@slovenly_zizek3006]

Christ thats dismal

[@binkusbonkus]

the fact Dan even attempted to write a whole book for this video, even a terrible one, and in only 30 days, is some insane dedication. holy shit dude. the fact ghost writers do this shit for a living is insane. edit: I wrote this before the conclusion of how much the ghost writers are being paid. that's fucking criminal. like I know it's technically not illegal, and that makes me want to break something

[@GrimTimekeeper]

This makes me wonder how often some terrible ghost-writing AI is used to write these books.

[@58209]

@@GrimTimekeeper this video about scammers plagiarizing entire minecraft videos and publishing them into books on amazon is pretty close to that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKrTmHSJgLiFkMU

[@58209]

"the urban writers" and similar operations are, at this point, just ghostwriter sweatshops.

[@xenosbreed]

Easily falls under the 'If this isn't illegal, it should be' category

[@justinwatson1510]

Join a communist or socialist party, it is the only way we can put an end to this nonsense.

[@SometimesCompitent]

The process Dan underwent to write his fake book was shockingly similar to what it was like to write my master's thesis.

[@cereal_chick2515]

I'm writing my master's thesis right now! The sticking point for me is having to learn general relativity for it, but once that's done, it should come out fairly easily.

[@alphapockets]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@derekquiram]

"Styling themselves as burnouts turned publishing gurus, these dollar general Winkelvi are the villain of today's video, but they're not the end boss by any metric..." Not sure who helps with writing scripts, but dam that was good.

[@Psykomancer]

I've always told my friends and family "If somebody is selling you a miracle business model, it's because they already used it up"

[@LordJagd]

Or that model only exists in theory and they pretend to hold secret knowledge that lets you use it. I saw this a lot with stock market and crypto scams.

[@d3xm3x]

Or never used it at all. The better shysters never do the deed.

[@brookem225]

What an excellent adage.

[@zleep9182]

dan returns from cryosleep to bless us with another free feature-length documentary

[@pedrox2006]

returns from Cryptosleep

[@nathanlonghair]

It seems to me he’s been doing very little actual sleeping

[@Jykinturah]

Considering what happens later on in the video this comment is super funny ahaha

[@mathieuleader8601]

*WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF TOMORROW*

[@NShimaru]

I read this as cryptosleep for a moment and to me it still made sense.

[@michelles9666]

If I didn’t think it would get me arrested and my child taken away I would make an “I’m here within 400 feet of an elementary school to PROVE THE HATERS WRONG!” tee shirt that I would wear everyday.

[@phastinemoon]

Maybe an enamel pin?

[@connorgibes709]

Probably wouldn't get you arrested... But all the same not worth the risk. Family always comes first 🙂

[@JemaKnight]

You have no idea how heavily cathartic it was hearing you point out what Forbes "Contributors" actually are. I feel like I've been screaming it at my computer screen for years.

[@UD503J]

Kinda like Guinness World Records. Learned a lot after watching Harris' Tommy Tallarico video.

[@cliftonvasquez3688]

Reminds me of “Opinion” articles from billionaires or CEOs Dictated, not written

[@richmondvand147]

Always take note of who is writing what - vested interests are a thing lol

[@twojointsjay7330]

@@richmondvand147 the three C's of source analysis - context, content, character This is high school history in the UK, I guess not so much in the US

[@Lin_Eileen]

@@twojointsjay7330 it's taught in the US too it's just most students don't really care to remember. if you fit into the mold the system is trying to make for you there's no reason to question anything cause u fit in and have a fun life. the majority of students "learning" are actually braindead and just there to have fun and make friends not learn about how to analyze sources they won't ever care to look at in their entire lives. but ofc ur pompous UK attitude blames it on a USA specific thing like education isn't pretty flawed everywhere and based on false antiquated capitalistic value systems. this is why despite your high school history class teaching how to analyze sources you don't have enough people in your country questioning and fighting against radical fashy ideas like restricting Lgbtq+ rights which the UK really leads the charge on in terms of developed countries. we teach kids thinking the world always remains the same but it's ever changing and education needs to reflect that instead I was taught from textbooks that were meant for kids from multiple decades prior to me in school I could literally identify the outdated information and it's not seen as a problem cause it's cheaper to use old textbooks 😅 yeah i see why kids don't care about learning cause it's not about learning it's just another grift

[@ashtonmackle4242]

My wife got pretty far into the sign up process on urban writers. They had an orientation with lots of new prospects where the first red flag was that every other person on the call was from Bangladesh or India and they were shocked an American was on the call. She realized it was a total scam when they told her that the hiring process requires every new writer to write a whole book for them, unpaid. Thankfully she dropped out right then. They were asking for PayPal information because they didn't use regular banks, and overall we got a terrible vibe. This bullshit is not at all surprising.

[@Olivia-ot6up]

That would unfortunately explain the name anonymity thing--if I remember right, call centers do the same thing when they set up shop in India (ie--give them "White" names to be more palatable to people using call centers)

[@diegowushu]

It makes sense most ghostwriters are from poor countries. $250 is pretty much a twice the minimum wage over here where I live, and if you're very frugal (and somehow don't have to pay rent) you can get almost 4 months of groceries with that (if you're a single person, ofc).

[@Onomacritus]

That's interesting and suggestive - I wonder if the young white man, the pseudonymous Scott with whom Dan was commiserating (and who could not be contacted outside the 'platform') was himself only a fictional creation. He could actually have been a female immigrant from South Asia.

[@hiddenshadow2105]

@@Onomacritus "This person is not real" AI can generate infinite amount of fake human portraits.

[@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley]

@@hiddenshadow2105 Or it's a stolen image.

[@DeMause]

I really hope "Scott" gets to watch this. Absolute champ to get it done on time and manage to minimise the insanity of your premise like he did.

[@xTheMidlanderx]

You guys are awesome. I truly appreciate all the love you all are putting out there.

[@Primalintent]

@@xTheMidlanderx ... ... ... ...You're not Scott

[@TrulyMadlyShallowly]

@@xTheMidlanderx what.

[@JohannesWiberg]

@@xTheMidlanderx In the video it says the names are not their real names.

[@ScottGuertin]

@@JohannesWiberg I mean, I hope you don't think I'm here under my real name either, so it's possible the ghostwriter made a YT account under the pen name to avoid violating their work agreements around maintaining a pseudonym.

[@jonathanjoestar1938]

Is it weird that watching this kinda makes me want to write a book? Like a real non-garbage book. I’ll probably suck at it but after seeing Dan brute force his way into writing a book in a month I have the urge to try it myself.

[@BuildDestruction]

maybe u could do nanowrimo? it's stressful and all but the community aspect + the fact that it's like, an 'event' really helps with motivation! ik it's months away but it could be a good goal for the year and in the meantime you could do the outlining/research necesssary. idk just a suggestion

[@kittylo15]

try writing a book , leave the draft and then edit it later

[@ashikjaman1940]

Write a fanfic tbh, most of the world building should already be done for you lol

[@vitormelomedeiros]

​@@ashikjaman1940 you can also write a book set in the real world, and in that case all the worldbuilding is already done for you!

[@Ziobbe]

Write a book! Write half a book! Write ten completely disconnected scenes! Write some snappy one-liners you could imagine your characters saying! Treat it like a business and something you 'have to do' or 'I want to have written a book' and it'll be a miserable slog: I mean, just look at Dan there :P But if ya keep writing stuff that you like, then maybe you'll find that you actually like writing a book! And if not, then maybe you like writing fanfiction, or webnovels, or what have you! And one day maybe you'll want to turn that into a book but that's not the important thing, the important thing is you're creating! For reference: when I'm inspired by an idea I have that I genuinely want to write, 1000 words an hour is very achievable. I actually aim for 1500 sometimes! When I want to write not for its own sake but for like money or to get something out there, I'll do nothing for a month and feel terrible the whole time then write 300 words an hour.

[@starwindangel]

Entrepreneurial evangelism’s version of “if you aren’t healed, your faith is not strong enough.”

[@None-Trick_Pony]

At the very least you'll probably get a placebo benefit from a faith healer. You'd get more mileage from sending $2,000 down a memory hole than wiring these confidence fucks that money.

[@MrUandB]

I've long thought of hustle culture as "victim blaming for personal finance" as well

[@Desi-qw9fc]

"I would rather die than look at the document" is big PhD thesis mood

[@HelloOnepiece]

Just thesis mood, everytime i am reminded about my BA or MSc degree I havea sudden urge to burn down the library they arestored in

[@JeanMarceaux]

As a PhD program dropout, I agree. I do intend to reapply later this year or next year, when I'll have enough publications pressed and verified.

[@TenderNoodle]

Not a phD student, but sometimes when I’m working on certain written assignments every second I’m actively writing or looking over my writing feels actually painful. Like every negative feeling and emotion possible without being physically harmed💀

[@juanrocollazo]

As someone currently working on their PHD thesis along with a separate article... that hit a bit too close to home.

[@thatguy1593]

As someone near the end of their PhD... Can confirm lol

[@littlelizzyann]

I honestly think that the hardest part of this project for Dan, the part that hurt his pride and wounded his soul, was having to write a bad book.

[@rossjames8839]

This is a form of torture similar to solitary confinement. Like, it's singularly destructive to the ego. And even then Dan had it easier: The whole time he was writing the bad book, he was doing it in service of a good video. And he didn't need to meet the deadline to pay his bills.

[@TheHiroBlade]

I bet it's not even *that* bad of a book (appears to be unavailable on Amazon as of this writing, I suspect a large number of searches have tripped a sensor), rather just a slightly lazy one that regurgitates easily obtained information. Honestly, I'd read it if it was available. 25k words of Dan sounds like a nice afternoon, and I can enjoy finding the little moments where he's clearly just filling word count. Edit: And without irony, I am interested in Dan's conclusions on hypnosis. It probably won't change my opinion, as I suspect we have similar opinions, but I'm sure I'd learn something.

[@caitmonroe9349]

This is the truly staggering endpoint of Dan saying that he values bad art

[@daishoryujin95]

And it's not just a bad book, it's a Brad book.

[@thepandicorn3529]

I think it was writing a bad book and knowing that Scott has to do that all the time

[@ashurean]

I fell for one of these, some dropshipping class that I was getting ads for when I was 18. I realized I messed up a few days later, but was so ashamed that I didn't ask for help dealing with it. So I was out $1500, which was half of the money I had saved at the time. Felt like a fool, was a fool, but learned from my mistake. First, a greater degree of caution and knowledge of predatory tactics, second to ask for help when I'm out of my depth instead of being a prideful idiot.

[@almitydave]

Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. Think of the money lost as an investment in life experience.

[@angellight9500]

it doesn't really help though 🙂@@almitydave

[@hahahahahahahahaa6580]

​@@angellight9500they're not gonna get that money back, so they might as well put the consequences in a different light and learn from it, rather than beat themselves up for it years later.

[@ashurean]

This was years ago and I've definitely taken it as a lesson. It's why I'm watching these kinds of videos instead of still watching a bunch of drivel on "making passive income" and modern get rich quick schemes.

[@rebbyberard8150]

Hilariously, the keto diet was invented as a treatment for ppl with epilepsy, so your choice to "mash" it in to the book actually makes it the slightest bit more accurate health-wise than it was originally and I think that coincidence is brilliant

[@MoonShadowWolfe]

This kicked me into a research rabbit hole. What have you done?

[@phastinemoon]

Throwback to when “Keto dieting” was called The Atkins Diet…

[@bendietrees]

@@phastinemooneh keto is vegetable heavy though

[@kami1725]

@@bendietreesCan vouch for that. I do keto to manage chronic pain and inflammation, and it works great, but I've never eaten so much salad and veggies in my life (and I like salad and veggies!)

[@Durrutitv]

I love when Dan walks on camera looking like he's just taking a break from hunting geodes.

[@hranf]

Man wants his raptor!

[@GSalem-ek5zb]

I love this man with my whole heart

[@Liliquan]

Now I can’t not think of Dan as Brock.

[@googiegress7459]

"Hi folks, I didn't see you there, let me just kick the soil off my sandals and pull up my socks"

[@machinatingminotaur6285]

or geodudes

[@evanpitkin943]

Dan has become Virgil, guiding us through the most soul-rending, dispiriting and terrifying depravities of the internet age.

[@HeiressEllie]

I miss the first layer of hell with the abstract childrens cartoons

[@Nono-hk3is]

☝️

[@merrittanimation7721]

When do we get to Purgatory. I want to go to a place where it gets better eventually.

[@me0101001000]

@@merrittanimation7721 have you heard of NileRed? He's wonderful, just a little crazy with the things he does

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Only Dan has contributed more to culture than Virgil did, because the Aeneid sucks.

[@congreve_cap]

30:09 As an English major, this bit about realizing a source is useless after hours of procuring, reading, and processing it hit way too close to home 😂

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Fortunately, my attention span is too shitty for that to have happened to me in my own English Major-dom.

[@johnracine4589]

Happens constantly in science, too. At least those you can sometimes get a sense by reading the abstract but not always.

[@zedplusplus]

In desperation I was looking at The Urban Writers as a way to get paid to write. Just graduated from a private writing program, into a pandemic, and not landing the jobs I wanted. I got lucky. Not smart, lucky. Thank you for making this and hopefully helping others avoid this scam!

[@fanboy50]

"I'm here within 400 feet of an elementary school to prove the haters wrong!" is such an excellent joke but I feel like we're not giving enough credit to the follow-up of a shirtless Dan staring intensely into the camera and promising to use his magic powers to give us 500% APY.

[@matthewmuir8884]

Yeah; perhaps those two jokes should've happened in the opposite order.

[@biguattipoptropica]

The thing is… I saw the real KZbin ad that joke was based off… it looked exactly like that, he nailed everything (the delivery, the appearance, setting, etc). I’m surprised more people don’t seem to know these were all based on REAL ads KZbin had during quarantine. He didn’t hyperbolize at all (which, in my opinion, makes it funnier).

[@JeanMarceaux]

I'm not yet ready to deal with the mental image of Dan's wacky goofy ahh nipples, I need to see more bizarre man's chests to desensitize myself first.

[@fanboy50]

@@biguattipoptropica TBH I mostly watch KZbin with adblockers on so I haven't seen most of the original ads. I have no trouble believing a bunch of the others are almost verbatim (the "just bought this new Porsche" one and even the "I'm within 400 feet of an elementary school one"), but the Shirtless Dan one is just so... *weird* I can't wrap my head around the existence of an unironic version of it.

[@voidify3]

@@biguattipoptropica Do you remember any keywords from the real thing? I need to search these up to satisfy my curiosity

[@benjaminmarson4622]

I love the completely contradictory sentiments of "You don't have to do any work" and "If you fail, it's because you didn't put in the work" Also, that part on his podcast where he's telling people to get 3 jobs just to invest more in this scam actually horrified me, he's literally asking people to work themselves to death just so he can get more of their money, thank you for spotlighting these people for the manipulative sociopaths that they are.

[@knightofficer]

I mean ultimately that's the real passive income trick, and in a way the putrid rotting core of capitalism, is that the only way you can live a comfortable life doing next to no work is to dump 3 times the work on a score of other people. You don't get major success by doing actual honest work. You get it by having a bunch of other poor schmucks do it for you, and run off into the night with the bag of cash.

[@Mantis47]

And then has the gall to tell people to indebt themselves to pay for his shitty course. Like sure, in the world of scammers these two are small fries, but they're still completely morally bankrupt and straight up evil.

[@flowerheit4512]

It's a classic MLM line, a lot of scammers will tell you "you can make it all back and more!" "Invest in yourself!" "You've got to spend money to make money!" And the voices of people who get ground into the pavement by their predatory schemes get drowned out, because "they just didnt hustle hard enough! It worked for all these people at the top of the pyramid therefore anyone should have been able to make it work!"

[@madeleinesherer7615]

this in combination with the way they openly admit to being burnouts and never really working themselves...they're going to hell fr

[@krombopulos_michael]

It also COMPLETELY contradicts their own pitch. The whole point of this is that you can easily make big money passively. The entire appeal is that you get to quit busting your ass at some normie minimum wage or 9-5 job you don't like. And now he's saying not only do you not get to quit that job, but you have to do it and 2 more jobs like it to keep paying into this.

[@maxafc4695]

The funniest part to me is that they'll say it takes 0 work from you, then in the next breath they'll say the only reason it won't work is because you didn't work hard enough.

[@RedwingBB]

It's Grade-A prime American-grown MLM bullshit 😂

[@luispt77]

I am writing my master's dissertation right now and am 30k words in. I think I have never related more with a feeling as shown in your note as "I rather die than look at the document".

[@RhianKristen]

I am both jealous and impressed in equal measure. I tried to get my master’s but I have ADHD and Autism and my brain could not handle it at all. It’s something I want to do, but trying to get my brain to cooperate is like trying to wrangle 30 toddlers to eat their veggies. I hope your dissertation goes well. 👍

[@p_noc]

"Success is guaranteed if you allow it to be guaranteed" is the Mikkelsen equivalent of "50% of the time, it works every time".

[@aidanwarren4980]

It reminds me of this translation of a medieval set of instructions for how to create a homunculus. It consisted of keeping a cow in complete darkness, feeding it a very specific diet, and something to do with semen. The idea was that after some number of months the cow would give birth to the homunculus. Of course this would never happen, so the tract said that if your cow failed to produce the homunculus, it had likely been exposed to light or fed incorrectly. And it’s the same here: follow these steps to do the impossible, and if the impossible doesn’t happen it’s because you didn’t follow the steps right.

[@D3ath3657]

“I would rather die than look at the document,” is how I feel about most of my creative writing projects.

[@yuu34567]

Me every time I submit my university work. I cannot bear to look at them once they're done

[@flow185]

Me pouring my heart and soul in a work then just as I finished it I fucking hate it.

[@nathaniellindner313]

I worked on a book for NaNoWriMo for several years (back when I had some semblance of free time and energy to do anything), and there are some parts of it that I'm extremely proud of... and more parts of it that I want to bury in a box in a desert and then shoot that box with a cannon.

[@NightRogue77]

Please accept this openly - I don’t write, though I can somewhat - but I sing and create, and put up prose on the platform I sing on. For the first year and a half I was doing this, listening to myself do either of these things, more or less made my ears bleed and gave me the urge to jump off the highest bridge I could get to. To make a life long story much much shorter lol, the life I have lived had me as an adult more or less hating everything about myself, a common problem in modern society. Over a short period of time I dealt with those very problems, and then lo and behold, I was able to view my works with a critical eye still, but WITHOUT the unnecessary harsh judgements. “i’ve only been singing for a couple of years, and under this context, this shit is pretty good, and getting better as I continue to put more time and energy into this”. And “ I am a high school dropout and completely self-taught in 95% of the stuff that I know - under that context, my prose is pretty impressive!” You get the idea. It’s always advisable to be self-critical - but there’s a destructive way to do that, and a much more constructive way - and the beauty of being human, is that we have complete and total control over how we perceive the world around us. Exercise that control and it becomes transformative. And on a personal level, I would like to add that (specifically to those of you that have commented already), if you put tons of effort and a piece of yourself into your writing even back in college, and when you turned it in there was an honest concern about the quality and an almost obsessive worrying, i’m fairly confident in asserting that the quality of YOUR work, FAR outpaced that of the people who turned in their stuff without such reservations. Your behaviors are indicative of introspection and critically thinking minds, and I urge you not to wait until you are 43 years old before you realize how unbelievably rare that is.

[@jamesgoines4635]

Me trying to study for interviews

[@YamiVT]

No idea why I've watched this video over 10 times. I think it's just healing to listen to Dan call out bad behavior

[@Reboobed]

Yoooooo I feel the same way

[@meowntown69]

Understandable, this is my second watch but I've watched the nft video like 8 times. Its in my greatest hits of long form KZbin videos playlist

[@JoshCloss]

After watching hbomberguy's latest video about plagiarism on KZbin, I was reminded of this video. Both are about people trying to pass off other people's work as their own, and pointing out both the exploitation of labor involved and the required lying to the audience to reap their profits. I don't know if it's a helpful connection, but it's one that made me think of this video, and that's a positive in my book

[@Roler42]

It's the same method across multiple grifts, the core of the scheme is always the same: Churn out disposable slop and then spam it online so it can rack up the views and money, citing sources and honesty be damned.

[@ashikjaman1940]

I hope Scott is doing better

[@hearmerant]

I hate that my brain is still like, "But what if it worked for me?" I hate being poor

[@phastinemoon]

It's part of how these kinds of grifts and scams continue to work -- because people are desperate, and they WANT to believe that it could work FOR THEM, because that fantasy can just get you right when you're at your lowest. Source: I fell for one of these, too.

[@liesandy291]

There's no if, JUST DO IT, all those seminars cost you money n time that you can better spend elsewhere.

[@sharkofjoy]

Seems like a natural feeling to have pass over you when exposed to these messages, but it's one of those feelings you wave bye to as it passes. Label it an "intrusive thought".

[@truckerdave8465]

@@phastinemoon You’re not alone. Got me too years ago. Sometimes still seems tempting even though I know better. People just want to at least have hope for better and it’s an awful thing to prey upon.

[@comicmoniker]

I think it depends on what you want to "work for you" If you're thinking "but what if I *was* able to get a bunch of people to do things for me at the thinnest possible margins and then turn around and reap the sole benefits" then no you probably can't, even if you set aside your morals. If you're thinking "hey I actually like the idea of hiring a ghost writer to turn my idea into an actual book cause I suck at writing" or "woah it would actually be cool to have an audio book on audible earning royalties" then you definitely can do it - it just won't be a route to getting rich quick

[@centreoftheselights]

I feel like an important thing to note is that terrible internet-only jobs like being a ghostwriter for a scammy gig economy company are heavily pushed on people who can't work traditional jobs for some reason. I had them recommended to me again and again when I became disabled, but I bet they also prey on people with criminal records, parents who can't afford childcare, etc.

[@ems9616]

++ as well as people who cant prove citizenship/have vulnerable citizen ship due to shitty immigration systems

[@Nono-hk3is]

No doubt. People are in these predatory jobs because they don't have better options.

[@noesunyoutuber7680]

The "for some reason" is desperation. Scammers love desperation.

[@ProcrastPerfection]

The ghost writers are getting scammed too. So much of work today is just a scam

[@MyPhobo]

I don't know how they can sleep at night. It's nauseating to think about these people who take advantage of the people who are the most vulnerable, and downtrodden. I think that most people are generally good, and try to do the right thing MOST of the time, but there is always that one in one thousand that has no heart or soul and spread corruption around and steal from others like they are doing the dishes. No remorse, no scruples, no thought of anything other than themselves. Even if you could become wealthy that way, why would you? What right do you have to do such a thing?

[@thoth7775]

My son has written an actual fiction book and has been through a rigorous editing and draft process with penguin publishers. He's still waiting for the final edit. To actually do the real deal takes talent and hard work like anything.

[@devononair]

That's awesome. My friend is writing a political philosophy book. He's been researching, reading and making notes for months, and has started going on writing retreats in his spare time. He's already an expert in his field but is still taking the time to research it thoroughly, and no doubt will be absolutely meticiulous in writing it. Really good books take a lot of time and effort. It's a shame they likely to be lost in a sea of vapid self-help nonsense and ghostwritten tat. I have actually been motivated to write a book myself. There are a couple of topics I know a lot about and I'm thinking of spending some time putting together some ideas for a book. I like the idea of a little passive income, but I'm not shallow enough to write some drivel I don't believe in. I'm going to actually write a proper book... maybe... when I've finished all my other projects! LOL.

[@therailbob]

Coming back to this I see the parallels to the Writers Guild strike. Creatives are treated as replaceable and inessential when they're doing all the work.

[@kiprasking8581]

Well one gets paid too much for bad work while the other barely gets anything and can only make subpar work

[@fauxrowsdower7610]

⁠@@kiprasking8581you’re one of those people with no core beliefs aren’t you? Your opinions depend on who talked to you most recently and nothing else

[@kiprasking8581]

@@fauxrowsdower7610 Well it's just what we see now. Hundreds of writers and nothing to show for it

[@notapplicable6985]

​@@kiprasking8581do you think crunch culture results in good work?

[@kiprasking8581]

@@notapplicable6985 No? You think activism does?

[@PerkolatorTheTerminator]

Ugh, the “training to be terrible clients” section gave me flashbacks to my first venture into graphic design in college. I had a friend of a friend who was trying to start a local clothing brand and wanted me to design multiple stylized versions of the logo he thought of and wanted exactly like it was in his head. He kept sending them back with notes resulting in me doing about 3 versions of each individual version and then said he didn’t like any of them and wouldn’t pay but might give me a free t-shirt. Later I found out he used all of them and sold them to my friend for what was my hourly rate per-hat/shirt. Making money by ripping people who did the actual work for you off is the ultimate form of douchebag business.

[@ToastyJunebugs]

What did your friend he sold the items to do when he learned his friend stole from you?

[@skootties]

no, that's just the foundation of capitalism. I honestly admire these people a bit for how they looked at capitalism and said "hang on, why don't we just take this to its obvious logical conclusion and openly screw people out of fair compensation for their labor while contributing nothing?"

[@noahkarpinski1824]

@@skootties that's a really shitty thing to admire people for Kinda sounds like you're a sociopath like them

[@halodriver1362]

This happens so often.

[@ShinoSarna]

Protip: I always send an unusable preview until a client pays. For an illustration this might mean a tiny version at screen size (72DPI), for pixel art this means a JPEG (high quality but still) at non-integer size, and for vector work this simply means a bitmap version. So if someone doesn't pay, they're never getting a fully useful version.

[@milkteamachine]

I love that their business advice is “produce shitty content using other people’s labor purely for profit”, which also sums up their course itself. Makes the dropshippers look like hard working professionals.

[@10tothe10088]

Combined with the assertion that Audible is "a secret" really gives off peak "we have no idea how the world works" energy

[@bdellovibrioo5242]

Bonus: It also describes the reality of the capital class!

[@Bluecho4]

@@bdellovibrioo5242 ^This. The main crux of their scam is "give us money, and we can get you in on the ground floor of a new wing of the Capitalist class. Start exploiting the labor of others, ask us how!"

[@justinwatson1510]

It is distilled capitalism

[@SgtKaneGunlock]

@@justinwatson1510 Capitalism in pure essence

[@joshuapatrick682]

Ive been “hypnotized” twice. Once was at a fair. And I didn’t feel like a zombie or disconnected, every “suggestion” just seemed like a great idea.

[@lovelyladygrey8259]

“Pretty cheap, reasonably legal” is now the standard by which I live. Thank you.

[@lyosb6467]

"dismissing a sandwich as merely a collection of bread, fillings and condiments" is such a banger analogy which I'll definitely steal

[@Bant_Panorama]

All I want in life is the confidence of Dan Olsen shirtless promising me 500% APY.

[@biguattipoptropica]

What’s funny is I’ve seen the original ads all the jokes were based on. There really was a guy doing that exact thing except I think he said 200% returns in 90 days

[@marcscattolin1554]

​@@biguattipoptropica have a link?

[@theonerayman]

Well it FINALLY happened. I saw an add for the done for you audiobooks. The ad played today during an elden ring video. It was supposedly a student of The Twins (who he name drops). They are pushing the EXACT same course that Dan warned us about over a year ago. Be alert people, this scam is still out there!!

[@ferrousallotrope]

Something about the choice of last name “Default” is unsuspectingly genius. And hilarious. It’s almost like a “John Doe” but different enough to give it a second thought. And that French twist on the pronunciation is *chefs kiss*

[@dickhandsome6579]

I love how they keep waffling between "DO THE WORK!" and "you hardly need to do anything!"

[@iggykidd]

Probably because they know people are lazy but also want to see themselves as hardworking

[@bluegum6438]

@@iggykidd Also how they neg you first with "we'll handle everything so you don't mess it up like you always do, useless" and then say "if it doesn't work it's your fault, you screwed it up, useless" constant doublespeak to confuse vulnerable people

[@anzov1n]

It is pretty jarring. But just as with many complete lies, your response to any criticism doesn't have to be tethered to anything but can be just whatever's easiest in any given short-term context. "It's easy" is a complete lie. "It's hard, but if you put in the work you'll succeed" is also a lie (as far as anything these scammers are pushing) but it's slightly more plausible after the first lie gets called. The next step is to come back to these mikkelfucks and ask "if it IS hard work, and you gotta put in the effort to get the results what's the difference between this and the 3rd job you're telling me to get to pay for the class?" But this answer too would be yet another lie.

[@JesseLeeHumphry]

I also wanna know what they mean by the super vague concept of "do the work". Like. What work?

[@iggykidd]

@@JesseLeeHumphry y'know, work !! Any work !! Get going, not a second's rest for you !! If you stop, you stay poor~

[@nucleargandhi2709]

After seeing what just a month of this stuff does to a person _who selected_ their own nonfiction writing prompt and _doesn't need to ghostwrite_ for a living, yeah, we like Scott. Scott has it hard.

[@brutusisadog]

The poor Scott's of the world. They aren't even able to take the time to receive our condolences because they're too busy working for pennies :(

[@hjalfi]

One of the things I got out of this video is that Scott's a skilled professional with good language skills and who deserves so, so much better.

[@ChristineLSlocum]

I wonder if Scott lives in India or another relatively impoverished area that has strong English competence

[@Siriathion]

@@ChristineLSlocum Most likely. They'd HAVE to be from a country where a dollar is worth much more than in the US to make a living doing what they do.

[@brutusisadog]

@@Siriathion I have an internet friend residing in India who does freelance work as a writer. I will ask him if he's ever seen or done these kind of jobs where he has to write an absurd amount of nothing in a razor thin timeline

[@__8120]

The funniest part about these scams is that once they make the courses and the ads, *they* achieve passive income, which is simply poetic

[@IZEASGT]

There was a FoxTrot arc in July 1999 where Roger paid $200 for a get-rich-quick course from an infomercial. It turned out to be a booklet saying to make something to sell for $200, get 5,000 people to buy it, and presto, you’re a millionaire.

[@devononair]

@@IZEASGT It sounds easy when you put it like that!

[@ginger-ale7818]

1000 words an hour is an insane pace. I’ve only ever seen one person do that, but I have to shout out his accomplishment. Over the course of 24 hours, this man wrote more than 50k words (for a writing challenge in college). The next year he didn’t even come close, only writing 25k, but in his defense, he spent half the day in ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK in the hospital. This man is gonna be the kind of author who has written 200+ books, most of which he fully does not remember writing and claims to have written in a fugue state over a single weekend. And I will believe him. But such pace is reserved only for the mad, lest you sacrifice your sanity to it.

[@liamhurlburt9794]

the amount of effort that went into making this video is probably greater than all the effort these grifters have ever put into anything in their entire lives

[@BungleJoogie68]

I dunno, I mean smoking weed every day for 3 months shows a lot initiative for perpetual stoners.

[@maxmfpayne]

@@BungleJoogie68 nah I find it extraordinarily easy to smoke weed everyday for three months tbh. That's I've done it 24 times consecutively

[@theJMBgamer]

So not only did you research, script, record, and edit this video, but you wrote a whole book just as research? Damn, that is some level of dedication to your craft.

[@fpedrosa2076]

That's some gonzo journalism levels of commitment.

[@jamesrule1338]

For his next video created by youtube adds that drive us all insane he's going to code his own "pull the pin" game.

[@Wote89]

@@jamesrule1338 Either that, or we're gonna learn a *ton* about something called "digital real estate". And the relative values of houses and laptops.

[@rmsgrey]

@@jamesrule1338 Wait, you mean there actually is at least one of those ads that actually shows something from the actual game?

[@BrotherAlpha]

@@jamesrule1338 I hate those ads. It's just morons playing the game. What's the appeal?

[@toi_techno]

A contrepreneur is; "A con artist who makes their fortune by fooling wantprepreneurs into thinking they’re getting a great deal or coming into some easy money, when the reality is, it’s the contrepreneur making the real money." Great neologism from Mike Winnet

[@Brandon-a-writer]

being a ghostwriter for two-three years was the most stressful time of my life. "Word-count, word-count, word-count" it's exhausting as fuck

[@m.jackiematos5069]

The writing segment added so much, really drives home how fucked up the Mikkelsen method of exploiting labor really is

[@daltonbedore8396]

the twins are just another level of middlean. the ones truly facilitating the eploitation is the ghostwriter company owners

[@ng.tr.s.p.1254]

Assholes "teaching" people to become assholes so they can work with assholes to exploit honest folks.

[@VersusMe101]

The physical comedy of Dan putting up the whiteboard, turning around, and saying 'okay' just in time for the board to fall over had me reeling.

[@laurastutt3442]

Time stamp? I always listen to his videos instead of watch and I'd love to see that 😄

[@abigailchiesa1337]

45:37

[@jadesfire7920]

I got an ad right after the board fell over and then it cut back like three seconds after the ad, so I got to watch that bit twice in a row. It was funny both times.

[@nob2243]

Goddamn, I know that the phrase _"It's far easier to imagine the end of the world, than the end of capitalism"_ is overplayed and all, but this video proves it best. As an economic system, it makes use and creates supposed "value" out of things that are totally worthless. It monetizes things like someone's internet history and content watchtime. It generates garbage audiobooks that no one in their right mind wants to but or listen to. It prompts the continued existence (and birth of new) conmen, "personal development" coaches, self-help gurus, grifters and scammers; who come a dime a dozen. And I didn't even mention how it keeps the needy out of goods and services that could be within their reach - for no good reason, like the housing market, healthcare and so on. I hate it here. We really need to move past neo-liberal late stage capitalism as soon as possible.

[@AdamTheCoop1]

as a perpetual devils advocate, they technically were just monetizing what they were good at... and that happened to be being psychopaths

[@wahwahwah6690]

"Stoicism FOR PUSSIES" is one of the most unexpected and hilarious titles I've ever heard.

[@TacticusPrime]

I hope Scott sees this video and breathes a little better knowing that that Epilepsy Hypnosis book isn't actually going to trick any vulnerable people into not getting proper meds.

[@xTheMidlanderx]

I was very relieved to hear this, too.

[@noahmarx8297]

Bold of you to assume Scott has time to care

[@ShinoSarna]

It's funny in hindsight that really, Mikkelsen twins really were pioneers - they were doing AI generated content scam thing before AI was advanced enough to do it.

[@izzeallerdyce]

I spent way too long pausing and staring at the worth decider diploma but dan made it worth my while bc those signatures in the botton two corners are from nelson mandela and ted kacynski