CONTROL PROBLEMS OVER NEW YORK | Emergency Divert to Kennedy

11/MAY/2023
Endeavor CRJ9 performing flight from LaGuardia to Savannah was on the initial climb when the pilots were struggling to maintain headings declaring an emergency due to navigation problems and would need to divert to JFK.
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Audio source: www.liveatc.net/

[@VASAviation]

I want that lady to be my Captain everyday

[@prabuddhabose9045]

Yes......very cool headed, professional and a very empathetic voice

[@Falcon-um7vo]

Sounds like a good pickup line 😉

[@n6mz]

Agree.

[@nil3010]

She sounds so lovely

[@ardeladimwit]

@Denis B fortunately you're not the pilot or anybody else of importance in this situation. I don't like your bitchy attitude.

[@karanssh]

Interesting how the tone of the controller changed when they realised it's an airplane issue vs pilot deviation. I could almost hear the "possible pilot deviation" ready to go out...

[@borisglevrk]

I think a year or so ago in Korea there was a Cessna going through similar stuff. He asked to land in a military base and the ATC was like "WTF, you don't have the clearance, you trying to break the law or what?" And then the pilot says "my fuel won't make it to other airports". ATC: "oh, ok, you're cleared."

[@2004JETTA]

@@borisglevrk Yep I remember this one, believe that is on this channel somewhere.

[@CreepinCreeper145]

It's due to the volume of traffic in and out of the Tri-State region that they acted that way initially, which is why Standard Instrument Departures and Arrivals are designed to optimize the flow of traffic. The controller had to manage and mitigate conflicting paths by instructing Endeavor 5145 with urgency to turn, seeing as Endeavor 5145 deviated from the TENNIS SIX departure but not knowing that Endeavor 5145 had a problem. Once the issue became clear they understood the nature of the deviation and guided them out of harm's way and they both worked together to get Endeavor 5145 back on the ground safely.

[@josh3771]

​@@borisglevrk Once you say the magic word 'emergency' a lot more options open up. Atc hands are often tied until then

[@thomasdalton1508]

There was a slight change in the woman's tone when she realised ATC was helping them - she relaxed very slightly when a small part of the burden was taken from them. ATC did a fantastic job as the third crew member.

[@cageordie]

When ATC asks "Do you want to declare an emergency" that's generally a good indication that you have one.

[@SeligTiles]

@coolcosmicwe don’t know that as fact

[@MichaelJM]

I was surprised ATC didn't declare one for them sooner.

[@cageordie]

@@MichaelJM Right.

[@cageordie]

@@SeligTiles ATC are actually pretty informed about what constitutes an emergency. When they ask they are actually telling you.

[@joshuahudson2170]

@SaltLife I was starting to wonder if they were going to switch to VFR and navigate by ground landmarks.

[@ropersonline]

I really appreciate how despite some initial possible irritation or confusion everybody soon got on the same page and pulled together. Top marks.

[@ShainAndrews]

Incompetence will not be tolerated. As soon as the issue was called out incompetence was eliminated.

[@BruiserFL]

Same happened to me years ago piloting a CRJ200. A few minutes into the cruise portion of the flight, the Auto-Pilot disconnected and I saw my navigation compass display spinning wildly on it's own. After several seconds of initial troubleshooting, I looked down to see the jumpseating pilot resting his foot on "Compass Slew" toggle switch on the center pedestal. I immediately told him to removed his foot from the pedestal. I slewed the compass back to normal and everything was fine after that. Fun times.

[@vikkimcdonough6153]

That sounds like an accident waiting to happen...

[@user-rn1br5tq5j]

No space for switches so you put potentially accident causing switches in the footwell?

[@Eltoca21]

Never ceases to amaze me how calm and professional everybody is.

[@MuzixMaker]

Panicking won’t help.

[@rhpmike]

ATC went from wanting to ream them to very helpful real quick!

[@tiverton]

Pro tip: When departing 13, don't stop on the "white concrete". Magnetic interference from that pier can cause heading deviation. There is a sign posted in that area that tells you to check your heading indications prior to departure.

[@kmore2785]

I was just going to say... I was wondering whether there was any form of magnetic interference or a geomagnetic storm or something that interfered with the pilot's magnetic compass. Is there a large electromagnet or something on that pier?

[@AZ-xw5yb]

@@kmore2785 lol modern aircraft don't even use magnetic compasses anymore for heading information. They're only a backup source now

[@Relkond]

They mention 3 heading sources - what would they be? gps will tell you where you are, not where you’re facing. radio beacons can tell you in which direction and how far fixed point is, but unless the beacon is on the North Pole I don’t see them yielding heading information. I expect inertial reference would be one source, but I’d be concerned if it was the only source.

[@sony3021]

@@Relkond 2 AHRS and a compass

[@enginerdy]

At those speeds, the magnetic heading and gps course should only be off by the magnetic deviation. Winds should barely factor in. That being said, that’s one way the computer determines crosswind, so unless you are able to fail the magnetic heading source, I could see how the computer would be very confused. All aircraft are required to have a functioning magnetic heading indication, so that probably would make the aircraft not flight worthy to continue the flight anyway.

[@andy-ally]

Female pilot sounded very polite and gave very detailed communication. So detailed that sometimes I though it's too many details :D

[@Potoum]

I think others would agree with you if the others pilot trying to speak over one of her 2 minutes long reply is anything to go by. ;) Come on lady 'short & to the point' this isn't a tupperware meeting... 🤣 Didn't know air travel company allowed their HR employees to fly plane ;)

[@norasoderlund]

@@Potoum what's your issue?

[@jeff3388]

Ya I agree, sounded like she was trying to be extra clear when controller mentioned the bad radio, also maybe a lisp or accent there. Captain was obviously thinking the same as he took over the radios and let her focus on the checklists. General rule to live by is be as direct and to the point as possible, assert what you need clearly and in as few words possible. That they were in busy airspace talking to controllers that have a reputation for being dicks sometimes, controller already sounded annoyed by the bad radio, and she’s likely not very experienced all contributed. Captain had the experience and confidence to not get rattled by a bitchy New York controller, and was still clear headed enough to not declare an emergency, which it wasn’t. It’s amazing how much information your tone of voice conveys, and that’s what that lady should be thinking about in the debrief.

[@mateusbmedeiros]

​@@Potoum2 minutes? Are you sure you timed that correctly? Her longest read clocked in about 28 seconds. Sure you're not saying an emergency aircraft shouldn't explain the problem as properly when able just because of one instance of 28 seconds taking the frequency?

[@dougaltolan3017]

Sounded like ChatGPT.

[@MrSuzuki1187]

Very professionally done by both of the JFK controllers and both Endeavor pilots, and this from a retired United 767 captain who was based at based at JFK for 14 years. This is how pilots and controllers are supposed to work together, as a team. I already expected the professionalism from the JFK controllers, the best I have ever worked with and I was based at O'Hare for 15 years. However, I must say those ORD controllers come in a very close second best. But kudos, to the Endeavor crew too.

[@Retired-Don]

Both controllers were so helpful. Even after the transfer to jfk, the 2nd controller was quickly ready to do the verbal start/stop turn. Busy airspace, but they got the help they needed.

[@aviatordiego4769]

To all of you bashing the pilots. Let me just tell you one thing. The magnetic compas is a pain in the ass to work with ok. There are limitations and errors which we have to deal with, yet in such a high workload environment which these pilots were on. I find it MUCH easier to simply have a controller tell me what to do and when to turn, instead of having all my attention put into a compas which will likely not even place me on the exact heading either way. Also this means that the heading feature of the autopilot was useless. You can hear the autopilot disconnect alarm in the audio. No one was in any danger since the pilots were simply flying the airplane instead of the autopilot. This is verified by the fact that the controller gave them 10,000, and a few seconds later they started a slight climb to 10,200 which the controller called out. (Pilot was hand flying and was perhaps a little distracted). The reason why they wanted to get in contact with their company before landing is because they know that if they divert the airline will loose money, so if the problem could’ve been solved over the phone it would’ve been a win win for the pilots and the airline. This also shows how not severe the situation is. If the pilots felt that they were in any danger they would’ve simply diverted as soon as they could. Don’t have the time to read back or correct anything in this comment, I apologize in advance lol.

[@lyaneris]

Also, they waited on the decision were to go for maintenance and passenger connection reasons.

[@philbirk]

Yep. Nothing wrong with how they flew the airplane. The radio work from the woman pilot however...

[@aviatordiego4769]

@@philbirk LMAO😂

[@aviatordiego4769]

@@lyaneris that’s something I didn’t even think about which is very true.

[@fontcaicoya5686]

This should be the top comment.

[@fulano86]

I've had this happen 10 years ago on a CRJ-700 departing out of LGA runway 13 before. On the CRJ I flew we had to change the source for the directional gyro prior to takeoff from that runway because the runway sits on so much steal that it affects the magnetic variation on the navigation system on the airplane. Once you're airborne and wings level, you switch it back to the original DG source and reference it to the magnetic compass to make sure it's showing matching headings. I'm assuming this or something similar is what happened in this case as well.

[@pilotpaul7347]

EFIS COMP MON 😂

[@fulano86]

@@pilotpaul7347 haha yup! It's been close to 10 years since I last sat in that cockpit, so my memory on systems is very limited but I still remember how departing 13 we always had to set it to DG mode.

[@davidhill6048]

We did the same on the CRJ-200 at a different carrier (we didn't have -700s).

[@ohnoherecomesben]

Former 9E and 900 driver and even have N295PQ in the logbook. This was my first thought when I saw this video pop up. I’ve experienced heading errors departing 13 before, but never had it go so bad that we needed no gyro vectors.

[@chaserivers4058]

@@ohnoherecomesben I used to work the ramp loading your planes at DTW… fun times.

[@doctwiggenberry5324]

Sometimes ATC controllers are just what you need and some are the best in the business.

[@REFEREEMOUSE]

When you hear the autopilot disconnect, you know it’s real

[@stevenverhaegen8729]

Always get reminded of the Astana 'give us a heading to the sea' 😮

[@AEMoreira81]

That plane ultimately did land safely but because of the damage during the flight, it was declared a total loss after landing and scrapped. The plane never made it back to the customer.

[@stevenverhaegen8729]

@@AEMoreira81 Yes, glad it did - Mentour Pilot did a great video on it.

[@ThomasJoseph-sq9jl]

Ah, the internet.... Barely this video has been released and there's already a bunch of smart asses in the comfort of their homes commenting on what a poor job the crew (and especially the lady - a little sexist, are we?) did. Whatever mistakes or non-best practices, if any, they remained professional and calm, and landed the plane safely without additional incidents. To me that's a job well done.

[@thebrit23233]

I bet $20 they got an EFIS COMP MON caution on takeoff on the heading indicators and they still had MAG mode selected on the gyros. a couple of turns in the air and the flux gates may have corrected the problem. LGA has special notices about magnetic anomalies especially on runway 13 due to the metal pilings used to lengthen the runway. In that case the heading indicator malfunction was pilot induced. Most carriers advise in their station bulletins to use DG mode for takeoff. Same problem happens in Louisville KY on runway 17R

[@rjtoten]

Strange, never seen these notices for any Embraer product. Current uses INS, old one AHARS. I did see the sign in LGA, never noticed any issues...

[@ThomasJoseph-sq9jl]

@@rjtoten That's why the bet is $20. If that was unarguably true, the bet would be more like $1 million. But you know how the internet is...

[@PasleyAviationPhotography]

I don't know why found it frustrating that after some time passed after their initial statement that they're trying to contact "company" that apparently they still hadn't establish. I think at that point I'd just land, then later they could say, well we tried calling.... As someone in IT this part hits close to home lol.

[@SeligTiles]

Alaska airline 261 the company wanted them to go someplace else rather than divert to nearest airport because it would be more economically convenient for the airline. 1552:02 SEA-DIS two sixty one dispatch... uh current San Francisco weather one eight zero at six, nine miles, few at fifteen hundred broken twenty eight hundred overcast thirty four hundred... uh if uh you want to land at L A of course for safety reasons we will do that uh wu we'll uh tell you though that if we land in LA uh we'll be looking at probably an hour to an hour and a half we have a major flow program going right now. uh that's for ATC back in San Francisco. 1552:31 RDO-1 well uh yu you eh huh... boy you put me in a spot here um…. 1552:41 RDO-1 I really didn't want to hear about the flow being the reason you're calling us cause I'm concerned about overflying suitable airports. 1552:51 SEA-DIS well we wanna do what's safe so if that's what you feel is uh safe we just wanna make sure you have all of the uh… all the info. 1552:59 RDO-1 yea we we kinda assumed that we had... what's the uh the wind again there in San Francisco? 1553:03 SEA-DIS wind at San Francisco currently zero uh one zero eight at six. 1553:35 CAM-2 I don't think so. 1553:37 CAM-2 we might just ask if there's a ground school instructor there available and and discuss it with him... or a uh simulator instructor. 1553:40 CAM-1 yea. 1553:46 RDO-1 and uh dispatch one sixty one… we're wondering if we can get some support out of the uh instructernal force--- 1553:53 RDO-1 ---instructors up there if they got any ideas on us. 1554:47 CAM-1 ehh somebody was callin in about wheelchairs--- 1554:50 CAM-3 oh really? 1554:50 CAM-1 ---when I'm workin a problem. 1554:51 CAM-3 is that why it went static? 1554:53 CAM-1 ok yea now... I just that's something that oughta be in the computers, if they want it that bad they you guys oughta be able to pick up the phone--- 1555:00 CAM-3 mmm hmm. 1555:00 CAM-1 ---just… drives me nuts. not that I wanna go on about it… you know I it just blows me away they think we're gonna land, they're gonna fix it, now they're worried about the flow, I'm sorry this airplane's idn't gonna go anywhere for a while.… so you know. 1555:16 CAM-3 so they're trying to put the pressure on you--- 1555:18 CAM-1 well no, yea. 1555:19 CAM-3 ---well get it to where it needs to be. 1555:20 CAM-1 and actually it doesn't matter that much to us. 1555:23 CAM-3 still not gonna go out on time to the next *. 1555:24 CAM-1 yea… yea… I thought they'd cover the people better from LA--- 1555:29 CAM-3 LA 1555:30 CAM-1 ---then San Francisco. . 1556:59 RDO-1 ...versus a direct crosswind which is effectively no change in groundspeed... I gotta tell you, when I look at it from a safety point I think that something that lowers my groundspeed makes sense. 1557:16 SEA-DIS ok two sixty one that'll uh that'll mean L A X then for you um I was gonna get you if I could to call L A X with that uh info and they can probably whip out that CG for you real quick. 1557:30 RDO-1 I suspect that uh that's what we'll have to do. ok here's uh, my plan is we're gonna continue as if going to San Francisco get all that data then begin our descent back in to L A X, and at a lower altitude we will configure, and check the handling uh envelope before we proceed with the approach. 1559:06 LAX-OPS ok also uh two sixty one just be advised uh because you're an international arrival we have to get landing rights I don't know how long that's gonna take me... but uh I have to clear it all through customs first. 1559:19 RDO-1 ok I unders... I remember this is complicated, yea well, better start that now cause we are comin to you. 1559:26 LAX-OPS copy. 1559:29 CAM-1 we'll call em back over as we get closer to Catalina. 1559:34 CAM-2 as we get what? 1559:34 CAM-1 closer to L A she's got to get landing rights.

[@icollectstories5702]

Maybe they had more comm issues than just with ATC.

[@wincav]

A very professional AND polite exchange.

[@relic69]

This is incredible information, well presented. Thank You

[@davebartosh5]

That woman pilot on the Endeavor plane is very skilled with her communications and also bright and patient. Kennedy is perhaps the busiest airport in the world. She was able to quickly explain that they had no idea what the problem was in a way that the controller understood. If somone was ham-handed on the radio in that situation, the controller would have gotten irritated, and things would go downhill fast.

[@kewkabe]

Kennedy's nowhere near busiest in the world (which is ATL). JFK is around #20.

[@davebartosh5]

@@kewkabe Yeah, I dunno. You are probably right. This is certainly the most congested airspace. But JFK has it's load relieved by Newark and La Guardia I suppose. Yup, I just checked and Google agrees with you. Makes sense.

[@jeremiahsemonis8524]

​@@kewkabe that's not correct. O'Hare has more departures and landings than Atlanta, by about 500 a day, it's not even close. JFK in terms of operations is maybe 15-20th busiest, but not even top 10😊

[@MGXsport]

@@kewkabe But the airspace is the busiest with many major airports in a very small area. Flying around the ATL area is much easier than the NYC area.

[@kewkabe]

@@jeremiahsemonis8524 What year are you looking at? Google "busiest airports by movements" and in 2021 Atlanta was most with 707,661 and ORD was 684,201. Or maybe you're thinking of passenger count, not aircraft movements.

[@sea-ferring]

I love how everyone stays calm and are all about helping each other.

[@ShainAndrews]

Right.... because the alternative is what again? We really need to segregate the internet.

[@atubebuff]

All 3 gyro sources are showing something different? That's interesting. The compass too?? Yikes.

[@aviatordiego4769]

The compass was probably fine. But then that means that they would’ve had to hand fly the airplane all the way to their destination. Plus it would’ve been an absolute pain in the but.

[@rubenvillanueva8635]

They entered the "Twilight Zone"!

[@loudidier3891]

@SaltLife Seems like a solar flare would affect all planes in the area.

[@SeligTiles]

We don’t know if it the compass was also malfunctioning. It’s just that puppy mill pilots aren’t taught basic stick and rudder skills. They are taught to use the automation and when the automation goes out they are left clueless. Oh the poor pilots having to fly stick and rudder and use the compass.

[@airops423]

@@SeligTiles The compass is not the most reliable thing, especially when entering a turn.

[@brendanoreilly6917]

The more I hear the controllers the more respect I have for them. Fantastic people.

[@ma9x795]

That brought back some memories from mil ATC sim training in the UK back when Pontius was a pilot. "Adopt no compass no gyro procedure. Make all turns rate 1. Start and stop turns on the executive word 'Now'. Turn left Now. Stop turn now". Can I assume that this is no longer taught, because it would have saved an awful lot of unnecessary chatter and distraction?

[@brandieolson3335]

They still do this- I did one as a practice approach during my IFR training. They just put you on a separate final approach control frequency.

[@johannebry6802]

That is the right procedure and you can also give time for the turn. The rate of 3°s it’s easy to count. “For a right turn of 30s. Top start turn” And the rate is 1,5°seconde on final.

[@lyaneris]

I know that as civil non-gyro procedures as well. (It's in my countries phraseology handbook) "This will be no-gyro vectors. Make all turns standard/half, start and stop turns on the word 'now' "

[@pw6498]

The Goddess of the Sky !!

[@clownhands]

You know you’re in a situation when New York controllers are saying “when able” 😂

[@_Bryant.R]

Good job by the piltos

[@jonm8787]

The dreaded EFIS comp mon of the crj.

[@prex8390]

Exactly what I was thinking. Gotta take off in DG mode out of LGA.

[@JohanMsWorld]

It always pay off to be politie - Even when you are stressed.

[@hack1n8r]

What would cause the three Heading Indicators to disagree? IRS not yet aligned, I'm guessing? Depending on the aircraft, it can take up to 10 minutes for the IRUs to align in a cold & dark startup. During that time, the aircraft must remain stationary in order for the alignment to succeed. If the aircraft is moved during that time (e.g. gusting winds, towing, engines starting, etc), the IRUs will fail alignment. As for magnetic compasses, there is a slew rate associated with them, but when making a normal turn (bank angle less than 30° max), most compasses can keep up. Not sure why it was giving them issues too... Weird.

[@lyaneris]

On those plane the magnetic compass is really bad as far as I know

[@liam3284]

Perhaps an electrical problem?

[@TEMPLE7D]

Flew over my house in the Bronx. Wonder if that was the plane I heard making strange thrust sounds.

[@marklupus]

As I just returned to SAV from LGA yesterday on an Endeavor CRJ-900, I watched that video with great interest. Yeah, having control problems in that saturated airspace would be enough to cause pucker issues with anyone flying that airplane. As an aside, that female pilot almost sounded like a bot with that calm, direct tone.

[@TheOzarkWizard]

Wow I didnt know the Mitsubishi Endeavor could fly at all! Im going to buy one now /s

[@gloriajohns8275]

It SEEMS to be working!!!

[@ruggerodeceglie6164]

“3 different headings not sure which is correct “ and was the controller that had to give them a solution (cross check with the radar ) I mean that’s the first thing that I would have asked …

[@Sugah_J]

The controller probably needed currency on no gyro vectors anyway 😂

[@jplayzow]

Love a non death ending

[@cturdo]

With all the radio/nav issues, I would think it would take less time and effort to decide whether to return.

[@aviatordiego4769]

It’s really not a dangerous situation in which they are. They’d just have to hand fly the airplane. No risk in that.

[@SeligTiles]

@@aviatordiego4769not if you are taught to rely on automation. Puppy mill pilots don’t have basic stick and rudder skills.

[@N1120A]

​@@SeligTiles both the ACS and US airline training have been emphasizing hand flying

[@jyggalag169]

Theres 0 reason to rush when the plane isn’t in imminent risk of falling out of the sky and the people onboard are safe. Better to try to sort it out if you can and barring that figure out how to work around it to minimize the risk of landing the plane. People have died needlessly rushing landings for minor emergencies.

[@cturdo]

@@jyggalag169 Not rush but give ATC clear guidance on end game.

[@sanpedrosilver]

Talking about the static over & over just adds complexity to an already complicated situation. Anyhow, good job from all.

[@barbaram5694]

This was a strange one. Any chance of getting information on the cause? Watched a video about an airliner crash….cause: no one removed the pitot tube covers😱

[@kan9424]

I'm so curious about the cause as well. Like, the compass not working either? That really happens? what

[@Tiger313NL]

Aircraft have crashed due to bees in the pitot tube... :S

[@AEMoreira81]

This is serious enough to warrant that line of investigation, because there is a potential of happening again. Radio interference?

[@barbaram5694]

With the help from all the new electronic equipment the vacuum systems have been eliminated….wonder if a cell phone would help with speed & direction? Don’t the pilots now have iPads with the needed nav “stuff” going as well? Hummmm🤔

[@stephenj4937]

Considering they have proper altitude and airspeed indications, it is unlikely to be pitot or static issues.

[@garywatson]

Maybe it’s my imagination but over the last year we seem to be having a surge of inexcusable maintenance problems on passenger jets.

[@PilotGery1]

Exactly what i said to my friends few monts ago... Seems like problems emerging everywhere... Good thing most of em are safely down

[@SeligTiles]

Post COVID (retirements) and puppy mill pilots straight out of school. The days of stick and rudder and using the magnetic compass are gone. Too much reliance on automation.

[@RyanRuark]

@@SeligTileswow. With pilots like you as mentors, no wonder there’s a shortage of good pilots.

[@pauloferreira5119]

​​​​@@SeligTiles that how it works in the US? We learn how to navigate old school (compass, clock, flight computer,...) in Europe. Our basic training, at least, do not rely on automation. Even VORs seemed like cheating during my PPL training. We were not allowed to use GPS, foreflight ... Plus, he mentioned mechanical problems...not pilot deviation or lack of piloting skills.

[@SeligTiles]

@@pauloferreira5119 pilots these days are system operators.

[@Brandon01110]

the lady's radio seemed to have an issue, The lga controller should have mentioned the clarity and primary use of the males radio for future transmitting.

[@prex8390]

Betcha they took off in Mag and not DG mode and got interference from the ground

[@BobbyGeneric145]

Depends on the tail number. XJs have irs... Pq and px are ahrs.

[@RomNYC]

Listening to this lady pilot is absolute ASMR!

[@AAAskeet]

8:15 fly straight and have center tell you the heading so you know which of the 3 is correct or closest

[@AAAskeet]

Oh they do at 8:53

[@musakurt8008]

Female pilot voice sounds like coming out from the mandolarian series.waited for ending the conversation as "this is the way" ☺️

[@stephen3164]

The woman pilot’s voice sounded very similar to the AI voice a bunch of youtube videos use.

[@liam3284]

she used wrong tones, sounds a little like Taiwan president Tsai Ing Wen.

[@RandyMarsh-nu6lo]

Magnetic compass is only accurate in unaccelerated level flight. They were under a high work load and ultimately did the right thing asking for start/stop headings.

[@billshaw770]

Gotcha

[@JSFGuy]

Look out now.

[@jimcraft3164]

Only with 7,000 hours flying the B-757, B-767 series INS airplanes; Always take the runway selected with the HSI display showing the assigned runway and the airplane symbol "between my knees" with the co-pilot agreeing on his display correctly. Many an airplane departed with either the wrong gate or the wrong airport entered. That is KSAN, ot KSNA as and example with an obviously wrong airport without the airport runway between your knees lining up. Once airborne, you are lost until you use VORs the old fashioned way to discover where you are. Never had a magnetic disturbance, especially at JFK, but think something may be as simple as incorrect programming of the IRS, or a switch in the wrong position.

[@liam3284]

Sounds lile they are under high workload in the cockpit.

[@mamiller1980]

Does a crj not have a backup magnetic compass to establish headings?

[@andrewtaylor940]

She indicated it was part of the problem.

[@av8r500]

The correct term is “request no gyro vectors”.

[@vadimarsenie9182]

i heard her well

[@aftbit]

Wow what were these pilots thinking? Why didn't they declare an emergency immediately when they determined that they were unable to follow a heading? Why did they need to talk to their company to decide if that should land at JFK? Clearly they weren't going to continue the trip with the systems in that state! And why was the female pilot's radio so quiet and staticky? Did she have a gear failure or was she just talking too quietly?

[@DoctorLodi]

Because not every company has full maintenance resources and equipment availability at every airport. Given you’re already having a problem that will require special handling, but not any catastrophic failure meaning you need to land ASAP, it’s better for the company and potentially the passengers to land at the best airport in the first place rather than trying to move stuff around later. Endeavor is a subsidiary of Delta which has a bigger presence at LaGuardia than JFK, so my guess would be they were asking for guidance on whether LGA/JFK would be better for operations impact. For the plane itself the difference is negligible, but for the people who then have to fix the aircraft and separately the people who have to figure out how to get the affected passengers to their destinations it can be significant.

[@yaterspoon57]

LGA controllers voice is sounding familiar.

[@supergamer-md2my]

Seems like a high intensity radiated field issue to me

[@liam3284]

Any alluminium plants around there?

[@juansolis8019]

😮

[@cellis5111]

oh please. this is why all aircraft have a wet compass. whaaaaaaah.

[@RowanHawkins]

What I don't understand is why these Pilots don't know how to do coordinated turns without looking at The Heading indicator. Do Jets not do coordinated turns?

[@RowanHawkins]

They should have declared.

[@Ass_Burgers_Syndrome]

No wonder the plane was struggling to maintain headings, it was being flown by piltos instead of pilots.

[@pk7549]

Follow SOP, and a little systems knowledge doesn't hurt either.

[@cooldude2251]

Oh wow and what plane do you fly?

[@pk7549]

@@cooldude2251 I don't, do you?

[@cooldude2251]

@@pk7549 I know when to keep my mouth shut about things I don't know about. Like following SOP bruh you don't even know SOP so stop pretending.

[@pk7549]

@@cooldude2251 what do you know about SOP?

[@pk7549]

@@cooldude2251 so can you tell me anything about the SOP on taking off runways with known and unknown magnetic anomalies in a dual AHRS equipped aircraft?

[@rickkennerly2379]

Controller: from prick to prince.

[@noeldown1952]

The female pilot sounds a tad like Elaine from Airport. Massive respect though.

[@johnpooky84]

*Airplane

[@Noledad77]

How much fuel in pounds? About 2 hours. Perfect, thanks.

[@KB4QAA]

The regs require SOB's and Fuel Remaining in Hour and Minutes; NOT pounds. The fire trucks can deal with it on the ground and should not be bothering the pilots with non-essential questions. Controllers should refuse these requests.

[@Majoofi]

I don't know how anyone handles the pressure working ATC.

[@donaldgrump5393]

Many pilots wear watches with compass. Would following one be allowed in this situation?

[@TedSchoenling]

controller was a bit wrong there. He did ask for 290 and they read back 290, then he called for 320 and the pilot said 310.. that is just one readback incorrect..

[@DoctorLodi]

I think he complained about the read back there because the most recent one was that and he assumed that was why they’d been missing their previous headings. Given the radio was obviously wonky it’s not an unreasonable thought.

[@flywithjohn]

“EFIS COMP MON”

[@EdOeuna]

Presumably they have enough data source to keep the wings level, so just get vectors back and then the ILS will take care of the approach.

[@ryanclark692]

Don’t they have back up instruments for this very situation that aren’t electronic??

[@tylermcintyre1454]

Tyler Mac sir what’s going on on the airline

[@-AV8R-]

Did Mitsubishi buy out Bombardier? The info screen says Mitsubishi CRJ-900.

[@VASAviation]

Affirm

[@pauldunn5978]

No they didn't buy Bombardier. They bought the production of the CRJ and that is all.

[@richardcasey4439]

Why did they not declare an emergency?

[@malikovajana]

I know they are expected to be professional and everything but she sounds like a robot or siri :D

[@embrj1453]

i though the pilot had the authority to make the decisions, it clearly shows they had to land as soon as possible

[@MuzixMaker]

Pros.

[@johnnyfive1412]

Hmmm did some of the 75 passengers not put their phone on airplane mode?

[@BeachNanny]

I was wondering the same thing!

[@buckfaststradler4629]

All of them maybe !!

[@12b_engineer]

Lol

[@aviatordiego4769]

cellular interference would interfere with the pilots listening in, not atc. if you mean the heading sources, Absolutely not.

[@othername1000]

Well, somebody had to figure out what direction they're heading.

[@briansmyla8696]

lol I'd have told Company that we're landing at JFK. No need to fly by the whiskey compass.

[@avflyguy]

Did their magnetic compass not work either?

[@SeligTiles]

We don’t know. But they aren’t use to reading a magnetic compass. The automation has made pilots system operators.

[@N1120A]

They communicated that the compass wasn't giving a properly reading. She communicates that when they are over Rockaway

[@avflyguy]

@@SeligTiles There is not a single licensed pilot that doesn't know how to use a magnetic compass. Very early on in student pilot training and the 'limitations' or understanding basic reading of the wet compass. Granted, not a precision instrument, but every aircraft has one.

[@inshallamiami]

Why so reluctant to declare an emergency?

[@theworldoflivvy3150]

It delays other planes, plus, it’s not really an immediate emergency. At least, I think that’s why. They also need time to go through their checklists.

[@JimAllen-Persona]

@@theworldoflivvy3150 Yes, but the emergency declaration would’ve given them the priority they needed as they transitioned through controllers. Frankly, I’d hate to be a pilot in that airspace … I live on Long Island and know how little distance there really is between JFK/LGA/EWR. I’m not a pilot so I obviously don’t know the downside of declaring an emergency…..ATC wound up doing it anyway. What a professional handling of the situation though.

[@anna_in_aotearoa3166]

There's always the "pan on pan" option which would seem to be potentially the correct one here while they work checklists & see if it can be resolved? It does seem as if US pilots are much less likely to use the now internationally-standardised panpan/mayday calls when necessary, in comparison to European pilots, so I'm curious as to why. Is it just a training thing...? Do their corporate heads try to discourage it?

[@KB4QAA]

Indecisive captain.

[@lonniewallace9328]

Is their whisky compass inop? Look at the whisky compass!

[@johnpooky84]

Whiskey compass: For when your plane comes home at 3am, and all 3 navigation sources don't agree.

[@DoctorLodi]

The female pilot explicitly mentions issues with the compass too.

[@Blargaldalien]

Don't the aircraft all have a mechanical / magnetic compass?

[@SeligTiles]

Yeah but new pilots these days are taught to rely on automation. When the landing gear goes up, turn on the autopilot. Basic stick and rudder skills are a thing of the past unfortunately.

[@N1120A]

​@@SeligTiles that is not how pilots are taught in the US at all.

[@N1120A]

Magnetic/Whisky compasses have grown more and more inaccurate with metal and electronic interference. Even worse in transport category aircraft due to windshield heaters and all the electronics in the flight deck.

[@lyaneris]

As far as I know, especially in these kind of airplanes, the magnetic compass is really bad.

[@philbirk]

@@user-gy8be9cf7i That's not what he said. If the crew is not capable of safely flying the airplane without the automation then I hope that I'm not one of those 70+ passengers. Using the automation is different that depending on it.

[@yvesbajulaz]

no compass??? like no way to tell heading on that plane???

[@rosen9425]

Any sort of problem over JFK always feels the least convenient for some reason so funny JFK: we will declare EM for you if you haven't already 5145: can't make a reliable turn or nothing but sure sounds good I guess🗿

[@undisclosedmusic4969]

Really strange mix of non-standard phraseology and reluctance to declare a pan or mayday…

[@BobbyGeneric145]

3rd time this year

[@SimbaC2007]

didn't bro already post this...

[@mikek8377]

Why was he so clear and loud and it was so difficult to hear and understand her? Are they on different radio's?

[@j134679]

Her mouthpiece or wirings probably has issues

[@xxibjrosek]

The main person on the radio, it sounds like English may not be their first language. I could hear a bit of an accent from them, but it wasn't one I recognize as potentially an American dialect, one from Hispanic or Asian origin. It's hard to tell.

[@Ba_A]

It seemed like a Brazilian accent.

[@aviatordiego4769]

@@Ba_Ait does indeed, only Brazilian person I’ve talked to frequently was my first flight instructor, she reminded me on him, the accent is identical.

[@DouglasCarnall]

I'd place as from the far East : maybe Singapore or Indonesia ?

[@HD46409]

The woman is likely Brazilian or Asian. Did this issue not show up on the preflight? If not could it be one of these cosmic ray computer errors like the 2 Quantus Airbus incidents?

[@Ba_A]

I'm quite sure the female pilot was Brazilian.

[@HD46409]

@@Ba_A I was thinking Rio, but you may have a better idea.

[@gower23]

Ursula von der Leyen is a pilot????

[@Airships]

Why do I suspect the flight crew would have appreciated even just a few seconds to run checklists uninterrupted by ATC? The crew did a great job of multitasking, but why couldn't ATC have cleared a block for them -- either to fly straight, or remain in a turn -- to give them a few moments to concentrate on their issue? And yes, I know ATC wants fuel in pounds rather than time when you declare, but come on, give them just a moment to aviate, rather than keep insisting they communicate.

[@mlfboys]

The controller is trying to keep them contained in one sector in order to minimize frequency changes and inter-sector coordination. So they have to be turned to stay in the sector and I doubt the flight crew would want a constant turn when trying to troubleshoot heading information. Unfortunately due to the nature of the issue, holding likely wasn’t feasible either. And don’t forget there’s plenty more downtime considering the video fast-forwards during comm breaks.

[@wturn5354]

I’m sure the controller was not able to assign any “quadrant” to fly due to other traffic. That airspace is some of the most congested in the country. You do the best you can for an emergency and part of that remains separation from other traffic.

[@Adam-yb2ei]

Bvd like ric flair. Keep fighting!

[@whatever8282828]

piltos?

[@MrGigaHurtz]

I wish everyone on the radio talked like the female pilot very clear and calm!

[@2xKTfc]

Very verbose. There's terminology to to follow, don't chat up the airwaves like that.

[@philbirk]

@@2xKTfc Right. Clear and calm so the KZbin commenters can understand her is not really the purpose of ATC communications. I just flew with a friend who got his license two days ago and his radio work was waaaaayyyyy better than hers. Everytime she said 'sounds good' it made me cringe. There is a reason we have standard phraseology and she didn't seem to care about any of it. Not good at all.

[@Winglets68]

@@philbirk i just thought she was annoying

[@jetpilot3714]

@@Winglets68 Very much so!

[@mikek8377]

She was hard to hear and understand. However, the other pilot he was very loud and clear!!