Convair 880/990 Coronado - too fast airliner

[@Peasmouldia]

Those of us with English as our first language can be quite critical of non native speakers. Ironic when you consider that so few of us bother to learn a second language. Your use of English is impeccable and it's clear that you've put some serious thought and work into your productions. Thank you sir.

[@herrgolf]

Ian Bunyan it’s English that would put the average Dutch or Swede to shame

[@timdimond2693]

@@herrgolf It's English that would put the average Australian to shame 😊

[@nakamichi682zx]

I agree, Sky is splendid in every way. English is an oddity - its my home tongue but since its non-phonetic, one hears all these fascinating accents and Sky's is great. Very coherent and easy to listen to. Abpve all, his intonation is perfect. His coverage of every subject he approaches can't be faulted.

[@rontroy3843]

@@nakamichi682zx It's English that would put many Americans to shame.

[@rubenbueno3926]

Convair Coronado , no fue el mejor avión de su época. Pero seguramente el más hermoso !!!!

[@mikenodine6713]

I can remember a young Delta copilot telling a passenger back in the 1990's that the MD-80 we were on was the fastest airliner ever built. I had to butt in and correct him, stating the 880's Delta had flown in the 1960's and into the early 70's were not only faster, but still held speed records across the US that will probably never be broken. He tried explaining that the MD-80's wing was thin and that's what made it so fast. I guessed he was just too young and didn't know the history of Delta and it's 880's back in the glory days. And that's why great videos like this one are so important to not forgetting our history!

[@robertgordon5562]

My father was a Delta pilot from 1946 until 1981. He loved flying the Convair 880.

[@dansmusic4579]

I have a Convair 880/990 type rating on my ATP certificate. I flew an 'experimental' Convair 880 for the US Navy. They called it the UC-880. "We" (Flight Systems, Inc. of Mojave, CA) converted it into a refueling tanker with a hose and reel in the aft cargo compartment for the F/A-18 test program at Patuxent River Naval Air Station, Maryland. It was never in airline service -- the Navy bought it directly from the FAA for $1 in 1980. The FAA bought it new in 1961 and used it for training and experimental testing of various airline equipment and modificatons, mostly at Atlantic City, NJ. The UC-880 became a flying test bed for the Navy, chasing submarine launched cruise missiles, testing the new GPS system, and many other test projects that could use the large cabin to carry engineers on board during flight tests. The plane was in service from 1981 thru about 1993 at Pax River, they repainted it very nicely circa 1990, and then... blew it up with a 'bomb in the cargo hold' experiment in 1993. The Navy had one other 880 they bought cheaply from Miami 'cockroach corner' in 1983, but used it only as spare parts. CJ-805 engines were rare, and usually so rusted that bolts would break off if you tried to remove them. So we went through a lot of engines. I was told the Navy finally decided to simply use J-79 engines, replacing the afterburner with the thrust reversers -- a simple bolt on replacement. They had plenty of J-79s, the F-4 Phantom, B-58, F-104, RA-5J and plenty of other mothballed military planes used them. We were told the CJ-805 was simply a commercial version of the J-79 with cheaper metals and no afterburner. Yes, the 990 was faster. NASA had one at Moffett Field (San Jose, CA) and it is now the gate guardian at Mojave Airport, Mojave California. The 990 did have 'anti-shock bodies' on the aft edge of the wings -- to break off any shock wave that might build in the transonic speeds. They doubled as extra fuel tanks. And they had aft-fan engines -- quite novel in those days, I don't think the concept ever caught on with any other jet engine. Sadly, there are no flying 880s nor 990s today. Museums and the wrecking ball got them all. There was an 880 used as a restaurant at Erie Colorado (just north of Denver) in the 1980's, but its gone. Many were stored at Mojave Airport, but I think all of those have been dismantled now. Elvis Presley's 880 (called the "Lisa Marie", you have a photo in your video) is on display at Graceland, in Memphis. They flew it gear down on its last flight from Jacksonville, FL to Memphis, then cut the wings off with a chain saw, and towed it thru town to Graceland and bolted the wings back on for display.

[@Taliyon]

This is one of the best renditions of the story of the Convair 880/990. Nailed it!

[@june1517]

yeah..not as saddening as others...

[@krissp8712]

The Mustard one is great too.

[@Sambxyz]

Thank you for this video. It brought back a memory that in September 1970, I flew on a Coronado 990 of Middle East Airlines from Beirut to Cairo. I have flown more than 3,000 times and have kept a record of every flight. This was the only occasion on which I flew on a Coronado.

[@skyscall]

Sambxyz Do you recall anything specifically of of the ordinary from the Coronado? Also would you say the speed was worth the cost? I'm really curious about this plane

[@dennyliegerot4021]

My favorite 4 engine aircraft... Flew on it many times. My father was a pilot with Delta from 1962-1995 so I was lucky enough to grow up with the airlines and the various airplanes of the time. Thanks for the video.

[@travisgamble8765]

Thank you for doing such a thorough and well explained video Skyships! You really put good research into your vids. The Coronado series is one of my faves, but I love all the work you have been doing and share them often.

[@Skywalker8562]

I was an undergraduate at the University of Tenn Martin for a year and then finished my last two years at UT Knoxville. My home base was Houston, and I had a friend who worked for Southern Air Transport who taught me how to read the fare codes on my ticket. A normal day time coach class ticket could be automatically upgraded to first class after midnight so I flew Delta into Atlanta after midnight and connected into Knoxville on a DC9-10 which had the worst interior compression system in the airline industry. My head would be killing me by the time I got either to Knoxville or coming back to Atlanta. They would always say we would be parking at a remote gate in Atlanta and after we would taxi for forty minutes, I thought we would end up in Chattanooga. I would then take Delta's Convair 880, because I knew it went at Mach .9x and we would be in Houston in a heartbeat. I do remember going overseas several times as an undergraduate, and flying from JFK. I don't know who in the hell booked me on Icelandic Airlines back in 71, but they flew stretch DC-8s. I do remember us coming into Keflavik and it seemed as if the pilots just chopped the power and we fell out of the sky onto the runway. A Delta DC-8 would fly me back to Atlanta and I swear the pilots were those guys in the films of those B-17s from WWII that would take off and immediately bank the aircraft so it seemed as if we were going to stick a wing in the dirt. But, by the time I reached Knoxville, from my foreign excursions, I refused to speak English to anyone for a day. Those were the days my friends, I thought they would never end....

[@marcusdamberger]

I remember when Iceland Air was called Icelandic Airlines. I fondly remember flying Icelandic Airlines as a kid with my parents and three older brothers on those DC-8's. Flying from Chicago through Iceland and onto Luxembourg Airport and getting picked up by our cousins and driving over the border into Germany for our summer visit. It was always exciting to see the volcanic activity when flying through Iceland. I didn't realize it, but my father was essentially buying budget tickets because he had to buy 6 of them for the entire family! One year when the German DM Mark was weak against the dollar we flew on a Lufthansa 747, as a kid that plane seemed huge on the inside. Sat in the middle seat next to my mother and never was able to see out a window..

[@Glen.Danielsen]

I remember a similar pilot in that era. We were flying in a Boeing 707. Before takeoff, pilot gave a friendly warning that we were going into a steep turn immediately after lifting off. Man he was not kidding! Just after getting us up a very few feet the plane banked sharply like a fighter jet from an aircraft carrier. What a fun ride! Same pilot later spoke over the P.A., and invited “any of you ladies from my home city of _____ to come visit us in the cockpit.” He’d chat with the cabin while dodging thunderheads in stormy weather. Very entertaining flight.

[@billkessinger6806]

I know of no airline that can fly at .90 or better. Some of newest corporate jet are just now making mach numbers above .94 but that is a MMo limit and not a cruise speed. In the 70's and 80's the DC-10 had a best long range cruise speed of around .81-.83 based on alt and weight. Also what is a interior compression??? are you saying cabin pressure differential.

[@Aengus42]

@ATCkeepsUsafe Moron.

Keflavik is notorious for being one of the most dangerous airports in the world in terms of approach and crosswinds.

[@captlawler]

I upgraded to TWA captain on the CV880 in 1968. I also instructed on it. Engine failure on takeoff and 2-engine inoperative landings were a handful due to inadequate rudder. I loved flying it.

[@chrisdominguez7485]

My Dad worked on these planes, back in the day! I loved to go watch them take-off and land. Thanks for reviving their history!!

[@machpodfan]

They were very quick and unbelievably quiet in the cabin...thanks to that extra-thick fuselage skin. We flew them between Venezuela and Miami in the 1960s, with superb cabin service from VIASA,.

[@DSGNflorian]

Thumbs up, great video!. Amazing plane, too. The CV-990 has always been my favorite of the early jets. Granted, all first-generation jet transports are beautiful. But the 990 probably embodied the look of speed and power just a tad more elegantly than its contemporaries. Love the appearance of the rakish engine pylons and those sleek, clean nacelle tubes with the rear-positioned fan stage. This plane looks as space-age as anything from...well, the space age.. The increased wing sweep and those unique anti-shock pods are just awesome. Beautiful, beautiful plane.

[@soco13466]

I remember being a Delta passenger on the 880, early 60's. I was about 8 yrs old at the time.

[@abelstypewriters]

The quality of content in these vidoes is so great.

[@davidrichards2237]

I am glad you finally made a video about the convair fast aircraft. Thank you so much!

[@dwilliams2068]

There is a missing fact in this video. The 990 had the 4 pods to conform to "the area rule" which Convair used on the F102-F106 ventures. The F106 had a "coke bottle" fuselage with the narrow middle section making the total cross section more constant when the cross section of the wings were taken into account. This "rule" was the reason the pods were added. I didn't work on the Convair transport aircraft but I worked on the Atlas Missile. I did, from time to time, work with the aerodynamics engineers who designed the jet transports. There is another missed feature, the small stubs sticking up on the tops of the wing. These "add energy" to the air flow and prevent laminar separation of airflow, now a common feature of commercial jetliners.

[@dwilliams2068]

Two more thoughts- I recall that Convair posted the greatest short term loss ever reported because of the 880-990 programs. (Now other companies have captured that record.) I also remember a "legend" that Howard Hughes met secretly with Convair management in the cockpit of an airplane and issued his demand for 5-wide seating. In retrospect, the meeting might have occurred but 5-wide was probably a result of other requirements, not a specific demand.

[@dwilliams2068]

I found a reference to the little blades on the top of jetliner wings. They are referred to as Vortex Generators and are intended to delay flow separation. My Convair engineer friends simply called them "energizers". They can be found with a web search for "vortex generator". I see they are now common, even as aftermarket kits, on private planes of all types. It would be interesting to know whether Convair or Boeing was the first to use them on jet transports.

[@matt8863]

@D Williams Very interesting additional information.

[@StratMatt777]

@@dwilliams2068 At 5:46 you can see a row of vortex generators on that 707 wing, ahead of the inboard aileron. Vortex Generators are commonly used ahead of ailerons to ensure roll control during an aerodynamic stall. Lots of other manufacturers must have used them before (and since) Convair. You can see a cluster of them at the aft end of the 737 (non MAX) fuselage to keep the airflow attached (stirred up and energized and stuck to the airplane). You'll also see one big one mounted to the engine cowling on the inboard upper part of wing mounted engines to steer the airflow that is disturbed by the engine cowling towards the leading edge of the wing.

[@austindarrenor]

@@StratMatt777 I don't know if all airlines did this but I remember seeing painted in very big letters "TWA" on the upper surface of the wing on their trans-Atlantic 707s. Presumably so it could be ID'd by military aircraft flying above it as a friendly.

[@TheSaemiProduction]

In the transport museum of switzerland in Lucerne is a CV990 for display!

[@supergillou6596]

Je l'ai vu quelque fois cet avion au musée. Je suis suisse.

[@felixniederhauser7799]

Yes, and I flew many times on this plane. I loved Coronado. :-)

[@schlookie]

Theres one parked up at Graceland too.

[@mikesteele5729]

@@schlookie That's a CV880. I've been on it when I visited Graceland.

[@fabianzimmermann5495]

Yeah, I visited it a few times. Beautiful plane and in the Swissair colors.

[@GKeithParish]

WOW!! I have been watching civil aviation since the early eighties and these planes have, until today, been completely off my radar. As far as I knew, the 707 and DC8 were the only four-engine, commercial jet airliners before the 747. Thanks a lot for expanding my horizons on civilian aviation history!

[@garethonthetube]

There was the VC10 as well. Like the Convairs it was not a success commercially but it had a long life with the RAF after airline service.

[@jjaus]

De Havilland comet long before the 707.

[@GKeithParish]

jjaus Knew about that one (way in the back of my head, obviously) but maybe it slipped my mind because of the unconventional “in wing” mount of the engines. Thanks for bringing it to mind.

[@TakeDeadAim]

My grandfather worked for Convair in Ft Worth for 25 years as a pilot. He few almost everything they made including the B-36 and B-58, Also the 880/990 which were built in San Diego IIRC. Ended up at GD(when they took over Convair)and the F-111 when he retired in 1972.

[@Mythbuster3808]

I think they are the most beautiful looking jet aircraft

[@watershed44]

@Mythbuster3808 Indeed they are very sleek and stylish, it's amazing how fresh these planes look even by todays' standards. Actually they look MORE "modern" than some of the current designs we see which appear ungainly and bulbous.

[@michaelosgood9876]

Great documentary about one of the best looking jet airliners of all time.

[@aggiesjc]

Fabulous video. Much information on two of the most beautiful and fascinating planes. Thank you.

[@usmale4915]

I agree, they certainly are two of the most beautiful planes ever built.

[@jbenthere627]

A great and informative video! I love old aircraft pictures and videos and you did not disappoint! On June 22, 1969 (5 days before my 10th birthday), I flew on my first ever airliner. It was from CHI - MIA on a Delta Convair 880. In addition to all aspects of the aviation part of this flight, I remember my dad making my younger brother and I wear nice clothes. We were served a hot breakfast with real silverware and were even given a pair of wings from the stewardess. I even remember getting a postcard of the plane and the info on the back touted it's ability to fly at 635 mph. I was blown away by the entire experience! Your video has helped me relive a great day from my childhood. Thank you!!!

[@rudolfabelin383]

I have flown once on the Convair Coronado together with my father and Björn "Andy" Andréasson. The latter had before returning to Sweden worked for Convair as Group Engineer for control systems on several civilian and military Convair aircraft, including the 880/990. BTW, the flight was a demo flight from Malmö (MMA) to Stockholm (ARN).

[@Cl4rendon]

The Coronado was so short lived and here in Europe, we only knew them fron SPANTAX and SWISSAIR- It was the third "four holer" in the market ( pre 747) and an expression of ambition and affluence of the time that wont come back.

[@MrShobar]

The "Lisa Marie" at 14:07. The was Elvis Presley's 880, now on permanent display at Graceland.

[@AJM-timecop]

I was an aircraft spotter in Manchester UK in the 70s. Always enjoyed seeing the Spantax Coronado.

[@jeffreydeeds9225]

I was 11 when this song came out. The first time I heard it on my local radio, I rang them up to find out who the artist was. That was the day I became a Boston fan. To this day, they remain one of my top 5 favorite bands I've ever heard.

[@yourworstnightmare5902]

Brings back memories! My dad was an engineer at Convair and helped deliver The model 880 to both Switzerland and Venezuela. We actually ended up with two sets of seats From the lounge area of the plane. Had them in our den :-)

[@scottmcintosh4397]

Convair aircraft also looked fast while sitting on the ground ✈✈✈✈✈

[@philmontejano5971]

They did! Same engine was used on the Convair B 58 minus the afterburner. Can you imagine a takeoff in afterburner on the 880 or 990! AWESOME

[@davidvance6367]

Scott McIntosh convair should have been quite about their plans. After they built the B-36 they developed a huge ego.

[@indridcold8433]

It still does. In the old salvage yards they still look fast, though faded from their former glory.

[@greateraviationgl91]

Althougt the Tu-114 is the fastest turboprop civilian aircraft until Tu-144 came but still the Tu-144 was a commercial failure like the Concorde so the Tu-114 is one of the best aircraft with speed, very fast as Convair 990.

[@AmarilioSongWriter]

👏👏👏

[@Exciteduser]

My first jet ride was an 880 from Philly to Chicago in 1962. I was enthralled. Then got on a DC-3 for the rest of the trip to Madison, Wis. What a difference!

[@TechTinkTronics]

Thank you for an amazing video, love the old jet videos!

[@RB747domme]

There's an interesting poster in the Smithsonian, of a Coronado 990pta prototype (just a drawing prototype, I have no clue what the pta stood for, it didn't say), it has a slightly steeper window gradient at the front; with an aero spike fitted to the nose; a fuselage which is about 19 cm narrower; four tripod bow shock augmenter arrows fitted to the inner rings at the front of each engine, their job to both slow the air down entering the nacelle, and also to change the position of the shockwave forming in front of the engine at transonic speeds; with the engines slightly modified to introduce a contoured pathway for the bypass air to increase the speed of the air passing through it, with a second turbine fitted in front of the fan turbine at the rear in order to further compress the air and speed up the air flow exiting the turbofan in order to match the airspeed with the exhaust velocity; with slimmer profile wings - swept back even further, slightly shallower by draft, with a very slightly reduced angle of attack; and modified contoured flight control surfaces throughout. The idea, was to allow the aircraft to fly at 660mph (M0.98) at maximum cruise, with an improved economy cruise speed at 650mph. It was only a design study, partly for the airlines to look at potentially, and peruse, and for their own benefit for future design consideration. The main aim being, to achieve an average transcontinental crossing speed of under 4 hours, with the aim being 3 hours 45 minutes. The secondary aim, was being able to offer international airlines the ability to claim an average transatlantic crossing in 5 hours 15 minutes, knocking more than an 1 hour 30 minutes off of the usual average at the time. I think this was going to be the marketing concept, to knock nearly an hour off of the transcontinental crossing time, or an hour and a half off of the transatlantic crossing time. And they hoped at the time, that airlines would jump at it, with those kind of performance figures. As a design study though, it looked cool, it's a shame they never built a prototype.

[@RonEggler]

The Coronado (CV-990) was my favorite aircraft as a kid. Great video, thanks for sharing! There's one to look at in the Museum of Transport in Lucerne, Switzerland!

[@cosmicHalArizona]

Enjoyed this history lesson. As a 10 year old I was fascinated passing by these aircraft manufacturing plants, riding with my folks on my way to San Diego. Many years later working for Lockheed and Mc Donnel Douglas seemed a dream come true. Loved your video.

[@Kevin_747]

I remember watching a wrecking ball destroying TWA 880's at their main overhaul base in Kansas City. Brought tears to my eyes. My dads best friend was a training Captain on the 880 at one time and TWA would fill the airplane up with students and fly around locally for several hours. Later in my own flying career my first four engine type rating was on the DC8, I loved flying the DC8. Thanks for the history on the 880/990.

[@Starglance]

For me the CV-990 is still the most beautiful aircraft that was ever built. My very first flight was on a Spantax CV-990 to Alicante in Spain when I was a kid

[@JetsetMikey]

Thanks for the awesome video! I’ve always loved these.

[@dragonmeddler2152]

Excellent research and communication skills appreciated in your very fine presentation on the Convair 880 and 990 aircraft. Saw a 990 only a few times on the ground someplace, took a Delta 880 out of Jacksonville, FL once in 1966 when I was in the Navy. What a great story reflecting the unlimited spirit and high expectations of the times.

[@watershed44]

@Hal VanSlyck Good observations about the times. I wasn't even born then. But when I hear from my parents about the optimism back then I would have rather lived as an adult at that time. Seems like a great time to be alive.

[@garethcurtis7545]

That's a beautiful aircraft, would have loved a go flying something like that.

[@indridcold8433]

Instead, we are faced with the airborne cattle trucks of today. They are uncomfortable, cramped, dirty, have stagnant air, cheap looking, and extremely expensive. But the CEO has to get their 40million a year for picking their nose and dingleberries.

[@DiamondAviator4]

It’s a beautiful plane, y’all have to admit.

[@checkyoursix5623]

I remember back in the early 1970's watching aircraft take off from the former Stapleton Airport in Denver. All the 4-engine airliners left dark smoke trails behind them. There arose, at the time, a large public outcry causing the airlines to convert to something they called "clean burner cans" ... there was a lot of public "noise" about the amount of noise generated at take-off, as well, since many departure routes went over suburban developments. I don't know if the Convair engines were problematic in trying to achieve lower noise levels or clean burner cans, or both, but as I recall, the Convair aircraft, as beautiful as they were (I flew on one from Chicago to San Francisco before they were retired) seemed to begin disappearing at about the same time ...

[@googleuser127]

As a young boy I recall watching the 990 at the airport being boarded as my father boarded another flight going on a biz trip.I knew my planes when I was young,but the 990 was the grand'ist of them all to look at.

[@n1k1george]

Got to fly on a TWA Convair 880 in 1973 from San Francisco to St. Louis. It was a relatively rare experience even back then!

[@arnaudn.5675]

Excellent video as always ! Thank you and keep the good things coming !!!

[@axeman6560]

Fascinating , thank you. Such beautiful aircraft.

[@jamest2401]

I wish I had a button where I could just press ‘like’ for all your videos, at once. Because I enjoy all of them, especially the ones on the old stuff. Until recently I’ve only been into jets, but the other day found some really interesting stuff on the ‘DC-6’ & ‘DC-7B’; and even saw a video where ‘Sully’ was training to pilot one. You should check it out.

[@donaldvincent]

I love the early jet age and Convair was great, always trying novel ideas.

[@Snookynibbles]

As a child, I vividly remember a flight on a American Airlines 990 from El Paso, TX to LAX in the mid 60’s where we took off during a hellacious thunderstorm.

[@derekbell4641]

Every one of his videos. People comment in deservedly glowing terms on 'Sky's English. And his excellent work. You should be rightly proud of yourself, 'Sky'.

[@paulvanobberghen]

Many thanks for bringing to the public’s attention this underestimated, and mostly unknown, creation from Convair, one of the most creative and advanced aircraft designer of all time.

[@cobra1010]

What a fantastic performance of all the engineers! An increadible airplane! Well done!

[@usmale4915]

What a shame that the Convair liners weren't more of a success, but I understand the cost of fuel and so forth. However, what beautiful planes they were/are! I would have flown on one had I ever been given the chance. Thank you for explaining these planes for us. You do such an amazing job. Please keep up the fantastic work, I, for one, really appreciate your videos! And thank you for the video upload!

[@doloresdeojos9194]

Thanks a lot for sharing your time and work with all of us...very clear English !!

[@mizzesorru]

Very interesting and informative documentary.. Thanks for posting

[@blissy1]

Best thing about this, not just the video but the positive comments!!!

[@klinkof]

They'r perfectly beautiful as well as the fly attendants

[@zachtong5985]

They were attractive and comfortable aircraft to fly on at the time. I can't recall that 880s were used in any numbers by secondary carriers and only Modern Air a Supplemental carrier took some of the American 990s for charter operations for a number of years before going out of business.

[@MatthewSouthall-b8u]

I'd never even heard of this plane. Thank you for enlightening me, excellent video.

[@darensiddall9712]

Fascinating, and a reminder that the aviation industry is littered with bold experiments, huge miscalculations of customer demand and expensive failures. The A380 story is evidence that even today with everything the manufacturers do know, those miscalculations are still made and no doubt will continue to be made. Still it’s all good fun for aviation geeks to watch. Thank you for the hard work and effort you put in to all these videos. They brighten up life during these difficult times. Greetings from a rainy U.K.

[@chucksweet7533]

I remember fondly the days of the Spike on the front of high speed large jets. Back then it was fascinating to watch the jets come in from all over. We lived in Tacoma at the time, so we saw lots of Boeing aircraft, but since SeaTac Airport is International we would see craft of all sorts coming in, everything from the prop-driven liners and few airships still operating at the time. We also had McChord Airbase nearby, so we saw what the military was trying out years before it made the news, the SR-71 used to be heard and felt for several minutes when launched, always at night. But seeing this craft with it's iconic nose spike takes me back to watching the flight race for higher, faster, larger and farther travel, it was a time of wonders to see them, and loud, heavy rumbles. Now, with the super-high bypass jets and turbo-props designed for better efficiency and safety, excellent handling and awesome power we have today is astonishing, the materials, science and technology changes I have seen since 62 have been extreme. In 84 my still living great grandfather asked me if we really had a spaceship that took off like a rocket, and flew back like a plane, and I got to tell him that yes, we had the Space Shuttle Program, I was in the Navy, so he was willing to believe me. But he had to also ask: Do we have ships that got around the galaxy and deal with aliens, like that Star Trek thingy on TV...and I told him, No, that is fiction...so far, and he laughed and said Good, he figured that seeing the Wright brothers fly that we WOULD eventually see the moon, but how the heck we would go from there even he had no idea, and he was no dummy. But things have changed in leaps and bounds since then, and even Great Grand would have been extremely impressed with today's technological wonders of the sky.

[@mikecowen6507]

@Skyships Eng Well done! The CJ805-23 was definitely an unusual powerplant. It was, however, extremely efficient at converting hydrocarbons into smoke and noise. It's an interesting development from GE, which later produced the TF39, the first true high bypass turbofan for the C-5 transport. As an aside, when mentioning seat configurations, the standard is to describe groupings, such as 3+2, not "a row of 5", which would have all 5 seats in one group, with no center aisle.

[@brucebrazaitis321]

My memories of these planes were how LOUD they were. In the 70's there were some being used out of Miami as freighters. They used to fly overhead all the time and were deafing. One of them crashed on take off when its cargo shifted (live cattle) . That plane was parked by Batch Air for a long time. The thing that killed them off was new FAA noise reduction rules. The Concorde made less noise than these planes. The final nail in the coffin for these "pea patch" planes was when Eastern went belly up. You started to see 757's etc being used for cargo some not even repainted.

[@passionquests9214]

I lived along the path of those b707,dc8,and conv, they were so loud they depressed real estate price s. Eventually they became cheap freighters until companies figured the cost of these turbo jets in fuel was too great. That crash in Miami kill that plane and the company that had others. They went the way of the dc4. Quietly into history.

[@morganlambley8655]

It’s amazing that the 707/DC8/880 were classed as flagship large aircraft, where as in the modern day these aircraft would be under the small category in comparison with the 737/A320

[@ΑΡΗΣΚΟΡΝΑΡΑΚΗΣ]

reminds of automotive industry, todays even compact city cars have 1t mass

[@RichardShelton]

Very interesting. Thank you so much!

[@nyceyes]

Your videos are great and informative. No where else do I learn this interesting stuff. ☺️🌞

[@johnsaxton5281]

In my mind, the 990 Coronado was the sleekest, most beautiful aircraft of its time. Today, only the A350-1000 equals it’s beauty.

[@ArthurRosenthol]

I flew Boston to Philadelphia frequently in the early 1960's. We flew Super G Connies for a while, and then 880's. Took off like a scared jackrabbit. Eastern replaced the 880's with DC-9's. Flight time went from 45 minutes to an hour. The DC-9 always felt as if it was shaking itself to pieces.

[@ATARI800XLfan]

Convair 990 is so pretty

[@n1k1george]

I flew on TWA Convair 880 from San Francisco to St. Louis in 1975. It was a beautiful airplane.

[@alejandroquintero2226]

Another extraordinary video, awesome work!

[@alfconde7826]

My old 1965 passport with a stamped mark of immigration revealed, I rode this Convair 880 from South Korea to Philippines Int’l Airport. Just 6 days ahead of the Beatles coming in 1966 July 3rd. Might have been so terrible in the Airport. The Beatles rode Convair 880 from HongKong however as shown in Esquire magazine photo. The Jet-plane was the fast after all. I didn’t remember the feel and image of the Jet-plane but the fondness the stewardesses had on me as 6 yrs old boy back then 😊

[@gordon-n6s]

In early 1968 I flew on a 990 of Modern Air which had been given a temporary contract by MAC to fly the off shore low traffic routes operated by a Braniff 727. We were able to fly nonstop from McGuire AFB,NJ to Lajes Field in the Azores.

[@billy98102]

flew on an 880 ..on TWA...a real hot rod!

[@Ccyawn123]

Excellent. I could listen to you all day.

[@RCAvhstape]

My dad worked for the airlines back in the 70s, he said the pilots loved these Convair jets and used to race each other to see who could get the quickest gate-to-gate times.

[@weofnjieofing]

I think the nail in the coffin with this airliner was the reduced capacity from 6 abreast to 5. Had it bee possible to maintain 6 abreast and the speed it would have been a success, even if fuel consumption was higher. Perhaps a tri-jet would have worked better in its current state. Hats off to a company that tried and dared to be different. Beautiful looking aircraft!

[@speedmedia9507]

Convair 990: On the outside I skrrt skrrt but on the inside my fuel economy Hurt hurt

[@robertoellison348]

I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE BEEN A PASSENGER ON THE CONVAIR 880,, JUST INJOY TE FAST TRAVEL.

[@peterfrancis4769]

Very informative. Thanks for posting

[@kiwijohn59]

My family and I flew on a SAS Convair 880 in 1968 from Bangkok to Copenhagen. We flew over the Himalayas and stopped in Tashkent enroute.

[@fraserhenderson7839]

GE J-79 powered the f 104 Starfighter. It has a very distinctive and LOUD sound.

[@hanoverbill8174]

Brings back memories of plane watching at Pittsburgh Int'l Airport in the early 60's. Saw lots of TWA 880's there. Actually saw one with an engine fire on takeoff. The crew managed to extinguish the fire and circle around for a safe landing. Shortly after that an 880 crashed in Coventry Kentucky while on approach to Cincinnati Airport.

[@philscholze6528]

I would see 880s on approach to PIT when I was a kid. Our backyard ball games would stop when one passed overhead. Got to fly the 880 twice; once from TPA ATL on Delta, then a few years later from PIT ORD. I remember it was a very fast takeoff!

[@stephenluscombe2208]

I was lucky enough to travel on a 990 from LGW to Alicante, Spantax, in 1984. I sat behind the wing so was able to see those huge pods in action. Very comfortable airliner, and I used to love seeing Swissair Coronados at LHR.The smoke from the engines on take off was something else! (Water injection?) The only civil aircraft capable of 600mph plus were the Trident and the VC10. Thanks for your informative video!

[@thomashunt4673]

My Father is the one piloting the CV 990 Modern Air in your clip. This was the last scene in the movie “Dog Day Afternoon”. Staring Al Pacino. My Dad also flew Elvis’ jet the Lisa Marie CV 880

[@allenhege5942]

I remember being on the ground crew for a transient Convair 880 in the early '80s. While the owner was off doing his thing, I had the opportunity to hang out on the plane with the flight crew and was also given a brief tour of the plane as well. It seems the pilot was referred to as Captain Dave, as I recall. The name on the side of the plane was Lisa Marie and it's owner was some guy named Elvis.

[@allenhege5942]

Correction...it was the late '70's

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

11:41 Swissair Coronado is STUNNING. Love Convair. My favorite by far, since I was a kid.

[@dododakowski2813]

Everything is faster then my internet.

[@franklinmabitazan1048]

The fact

[@MODECHARLIE]

880kbs or 990kbs?

[@dododakowski2813]

@@MODECHARLIE Not more than 150Mbits/s Not the worst. But one of the worst compared to the rest of the world. Isn't this just typicaly german?

[@salehjamaleddine7468]

Can’t beat my 100kp/s :)

[@lawrencegenereux8567]

Do; It really is slow. I sent you this message 2 months ago, and you just got it *today*.

[@hangfly1]

Well done and nicely researched documentary about a very cool airplane. Fell in love with the CV-990 as a kid watching Denver Ports of Call charter airlines operate them from Stapleton International Airport. The school I attended in third grade was located right under the approach for one of Stapleton's runways and those loud and smoky monsters (like many jets from that era) routinely interrupted class during takeoff or final for landing! Lol. Used to occasionally see the US Navy's CV-880 from 1988-90 when I was in the USAF stationed at Eglin AFB. Always a pleasure to see and hear four J-79s launch in formation!

[@paulhampton5604]

I remember these planes with great fondness in their Cathay Pacific livery; great airline, great aeroplane. Anyone taking off from or landing at Kai Tak, Hong Kong's old airport, before the runway was extended to accommodate the 747, was very grateful for the Convair's power and reliability!

[@daninthedome]

only saw a convair jet nasa plane at Moffet field, in 1980 and parked in denver with ports of call, but flew on the 580's of frontier, great video thank you

[@gazza2933]

Beautiful aircraft. Thanks for posting.

[@IMPULSEGOAT]

Huge fan of the Convair Jets especially the CV-990. Great videos with some nice photos and actual footage. I learned alot of new info. Thanks.

[@moremoneyfordreadnoughts1100]

That wass a special time when Convair had the world's fastest fighter, bomber, and transport all at once. F-106, B-58, 880/990

[@bigtedf07]

Loved this plane, when I was a child I would often confuse the 707 with the Convair 880

[@aviationlba747]

Funny, because the 880/990 looks more similar to the DC-8 than the 707…

[@bigtedf07]

Considering I was 6yo in 1962 and the only other 4 engine plane in my world was a 707

[@aviationlba747]

@@bigtedf07 I can understand that.

[@alantoon5708]

The wife of a friend of mine was a long time flight attendant with Delta. She told me that the 880 was her favorite airplane..

[@marcosavbg]

Excellent video as usual. I thoroughly enjoy your videos, both for the content and your delivery which keeps reminding me of Borat. Keep up the good work :)

[@andrewtaco]

General Electric is amazing The roar of the GE90 engines The size of the GE9X engines

[@gildavis8266]

There's a lesson in all this; Technology and business can be strange bedfellows. The fate of these two airliners would also be suffered by the Concord in later years, because business relies on profitability even more then things like speed.

[@gordonlawrence4749]

It was politics that killed the Concord. Basically when the Boeing supersonic airline that was supposed to be the "Concord Killer" turned out to be beyond their technical capabilities, there were a series of flights at near flat out by SR-71's across the USA which raised a huge amount of complaints due to noise (the SR-71 is way more noisy than a Concord). That led to a ban on supersonic flight over the USA and that killed the orders from American Airlines and TWA etc.

[@MrShobar]

Agree. A successful commercial design needs to support itself aerodynamically and economically at the same time. The Concorde and the 880/990 series simply failed to do this.

[@MrShobar]

In reality, the SST program never had any real support from the airline companies. Since it was an FAA project, the U.S. Congress (mercifully) killed the deal by denying any future appropriations for its development. Please read the definitive tome "Clipped Wings" by Mel Horwitch, MIT Press, 1982.

[@Bartonovich52]

Politics allowed Concorde to exist in the first place. It could never have survived as a 100% private venture. And people would have complained about Concorde booms as well... then TWA et all would have expensive planes (which still wouldn’t have made the manufacturer break even) flying no faster than a 707 burning a ton more fuel.

[@johnny_eth]

Politics created the concorde, economics and old age killed it.