Cookiezi vs. WhiteCat

[@CmdrDylan]

They have basically the same godly skillset because Whitecat is Shige's pp cat

[@Natsumee]

this is actually big brain

[@friendlyfriends5046]

Conspiracy theory

[@imdrif909]

pp is cringe

[@m1ssingnote]

osu!theories

[@jett843]

www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comments/dgj0qs/ever_wondered_what_happened_to_pp_cat/ i keep this on my notepad so I never forget

[@knzanderson]

For those arguing about this and that here, listen to me carefully: Both, Shige and WhiteCat are better than me or you. Hope you enjoy your life

[@dr.chopper3804]

No I can't enjoy my life knowing that whitecat barely reacts to 900 to 1k scores

[@masalachai569]

@@dr.chopper3804 he's probably gotten alot more 900 and 1k pp scores during his ban period, so it isnt surprising that he barely reacts to his scores.

[@dr.chopper3804]

@@masalachai569 Yeah he got a 1k pp score during his unban which is the Fc on Wizard's tower with HDDT

[@dannyosu]

Masala Chai he had one only 1kpp play and barely 900s

[@joey7107]

lol

[@clnsl5334]

i can smell both shige and whitecat fanboys typing paragraphs

[@LeafyGrovyle]

Yep

[@jimy5086]

Whitecat and cookiezi dont care but yet everyone does for some reason🤷‍♂️

[@addinator4514]

Haha

[@berka8587]

@@jimy5086 Its not that I care about if someone thinks Whitecat is the best (i think cookiezi is the best) but I hate how Whitecat fans see it as an objective thing and the only thing they see is Whitecats pp which annoys me. They say Cookiezi is way worse than Whitecat and that is just so wrong. Other than that, I think It is okay to think Whitecat is the best but to say that is objective is just wrong.

[@gantakanata2550]

literally the comment under you was a paragraph on cookiezi

[@habiso4438]

I'm pretty sure shige still has good accuracy even in military

[@papersephone]

triple collateral headshot

[@inxtinqt]

so this is what they meant when they say osu improves aim and accuracy

[@cyan6579]

Shooting Training [Extreme] HRDT 100% SS FC

[@nyoom1]

He's gonna FC and not waste a single bullet

[@papersephone]

@@nyoom1 and better yet, he's gonna put on relax and spray everyone

[@rudolfsigmund753]

We'll see how the next few years go

[@YoruRL]

Merami go brrrrrr

[@Zinoangel1]

Bet he’ll get banned

[@grippeh5959]

Chris ? Who will get banned?

[@CryogenicFrost]

Out of the replies I've seen thusfar, this is the most logical response. Thank you.

[@Zinoangel1]

Grippeh whitecat but I’m not saying he’s not a talented player but only that he’ll get accused of cheating by some sort

[@raynei]

This comment section is a warzone

[@leggo15]

To me, it looks like the comments all agree the video is very biased..

[@raynei]

@@leggo15 it's a controversial topic anyways

[@AfterlifeAnubis]

Please was never an option

[@jadebayoba7073]

I cant even pass a 3 stars song OvO""

[@raynei]

@@jadebayoba7073 ?

[@alancrome3684]

White cat's logical stim score had a shock value of "WAIT??? HE CAN DO THATT???" Proving everyone wrong that he isn't just some DT farm god.

[@LucyEnrico]

Road of resistance hr also

[@davids7646]

not really imo his euphoria and ror already kinda proves the point before that he never was a dt one trick. I mean he is a DT farm god but he was more

[@connerhagerman2470]

Soon it will be that one retarded rubiks cube map

[@davids7646]

@@connerhagerman2470 that would be way more epic than logical stimulus in my opinion. I think he can do it. But im gonna have to wait if he even tries. That thing has like 178bpm stream as jumps basically 356 bpm jumps. But flying tuna have managed to hit it before so i imagine whitecat can. Also that map is actually pretty cool i dont understand the hate

[@connerhagerman2470]

David Silaen im not hating its just retardedly hard

[@SleepySoundsAU]

I think they are both insane, the thing making cookiezi more stellar and legendary is that he was so ahead of his time.

[@kahwws5190]

Cookiezi is undoubtedly the greatest player of all time. Whitecat has sealed his fate as one of the biggest osu pp dictatorships ever. They’re both incredible and have fairly different play styles, Cookiezi would probably be around where whitecat is pp wise if he didn’t quit but also remember that cookiezi started playing years before whitecat. I agree that osu greatness shouldn’t be about metas but holy shit they’re both fucking legends and comparing them is like comparing gods to eachother we can’t begin to criticize either because they’re both in leagues of their own. Great video man keep it up 👍

[@doworian]

Saying that even though whitecat has only been playing for a year now on bancho :/ you just don't know whats coming in these next few years

[@mapotofu3282]

Cookie fanboi

[@kahwws5190]

im a fanboy of all the best osu players, they're much better than i'll ever be

[@mapotofu3282]

@@kahwws5190 nice comeback. I respecc

[@rrudra2068]

pp wise, i dont think cookiezi would be around where whitecat is. whitecat is just better at dt and the meta favors him way too hard.

[@kxxlzr]

Stupid theory: While cookiezi was banned, his brother started playing again and got as good as cookiezi when he was unbanned his brother played for him and is now the god we know as chocomint/shige

[@teachhimself]

Lol

[@jasontran6690]

Dude that's deep

[@freedomdiev3353]

the ol' switcheroo

[@exhortari]

ever wonder if he changed his info so that his brother cant get back on?

[@lucaburns1058]

German

[@Fouweior]

While i do agree with you that Cokiezi was a much more influencial player and probably will be for some time, the comparisons you make are not fair at all in my opinion. Where are all the ifranked 700pp HDHR fcs that noone can match? The fact that he outdoes Touchscreen players on jump maps and that he can basically stream followpoint-streams comfortably? That he holds the Nomod record with a lot of potential in store for him? That he is STILL improving rediculously fast? I'm not trying to discredit Shige in any way, shape or form, but unfair comparisons like these are not healthy for the community. It just fuels polarising and extreme opinions that end up maybe in a harmless insult like:"pff yeah farmer".Though alltogether, many people are downplaying a person who is an inspiration to a lot of osu players TODAY... who is setting groundbraking scores every week in the PRESENT time. Wanting to compare players is completely fine, but having a mindset that restricts an openminded conversation is not. It is sickening reading comments on KZbin and reddit that are mocking people inspired by WhiteCat, or that are basically just happy for him. I know this is kind of a rant on a video without any ill will and also the position of subjectiveness, but if we could live in a world where "shige fanboy" isn't a negative term for people who make unjust comparisons and downplay one of the best players in the current date and time and his fans, that would be great.

[@ggpez]

You just said everything, thank you.

[@flyoutseethestarsforme317]

don't forget his "2 names of his are blocked" argument. there is not much top players that remamed. only 3 i can really name are freddie benson, gayz (twice), and merami. like i'm sure their names are blocked too what's the point lol

[@choojunwyng8028]

The yomi yori FC was probably done after they already edited most of the video. This video is obviously biased towards cookiezi(FrenZ even mentioned it) so don't take it too seriously, its badly written if he actually meant it to be an unbiased video, which it clearly isn't. FrenZ would have to make an hour long video just talking about only WhiteCat or Cookiezi.

[@gbx2615]

You didn’t get the point of the vid, maybe watch it til the end. Cookiezi is the greatest player of all time, that objectively facts. If whitecat has more influence and impact in the future we can talk. Only because you start dominating the leaderboards you can’t compare to someone who’s been at the top for many years

[@flyoutseethestarsforme317]

Haigrill-chan 2k viewers on average, one of the most subscribed osu youtube channels, and even got into a popular minecraft event. if you're going to count impact, then btmc is objectively the best. he streams constantly and always pulls in 1-2k viewers.

[@jinrex2445]

might as well change title to why cookiezi is better than whitecat

[@careless2429]

To say that there is even a comparison is showing how ahead of his time shige was.

[@egglion7931]

You’re right, nobody is arguing shive wasn’t ahead of his time, that’s a fact, everyone agrees on that, but now we need a new timeless thing to argue on, who is the best player of ALL time

[@Ersdown_Liberia]

@Michael Torres sadly Shigetora Hands are getting worse and worse. His eyes are already holding back his skills. But his hands makes it worse. Despite that he still pull many amazing play even if it's not ahead of their time anymore.

[@mashiori9020]

yea the fact that cookie and rrtyui were far ahead of their time,with 100% big black and with shige having the 800pp record and setting a 900 pp play while the closest players were at best getting their first 700s says alot about how good they were. i have a bet that the hdhr freedom dive score wont even be contested for another 5 years seeing that hes the only one thats done it with hdhr and the closest score is a hidden one with alot more 100s

[@mashiori9020]

@Santiago Rodriguez Newton I mean I belive shige has like 200 number 1s with alot of them being like 4 years old and I do belive no one is anywhere close to sniping his freedom dive score also meridian and micca are like pp dt farmers, every time I tune to micca stream I see his trying to dt the same map he's got determination

[@nalla1782]

I thought we were comparing who the better player is, not who the best player was in 2017.

[@pineconedz]

The video feels so incredibly biased. I'm not a "fanboy" of either but it feels like you spend 80% of the video talking about cookiezi's accomplishments and then just going like "yeah whitecat is a farmer who will be passed soon" At least talk about Whitecat's scores where he proved he wasn't just a jump map one trick such as ROR FC and yomi Yori s rank. This doesn't feel like a fair comparison especially considering the time you spent on each person. If you wanted to make it fair at least split the video 50/50

[@ggpez]

It's exactly the feeling i had in the entier video, one of the exemples that comes me in mind is when he talk about cookiezi's chokes and not whitecat's ones, such as Happy Song (wich would have been the 1st no mod 1000pp) and others. Any ways it will always be like this beacause compare 2 players who didn't play at the same time is, i think, not possible (to do it fairly, and objectivly on any point wich makes a player good or not).

[@flyoutseethestarsforme317]

Mehdi Mahboub he acknowledged yomi yori s rank? i only saw him acknowledge his #1...🤨

[@larrybrowser8286]

Maybe he has been performing in top for 7 years so he has so much more achivements huh 2010-2014, 2016-2019

[@mehdimahboub3328]

@Santiago Rodriguez Newton i do agree with you but the point of my comments is just correcting that he did talk about his yomi yori play that and only that nothing else

[@sonny3721]

And his galaxy collapse with like 50 less misses than the second lowest miss count

[@exhortari]

Lets be honest, *Cookiezi was ready for coronavirus with his mask*

[@aimtenshi]

sightread

[@hoangTL]

what

[@notrandomperson1]

@@aimtenshi lmao

[@morganharrison8644]

Most of the video i find more or less reasonable but the whole "x years before y" point gets repeated far, far too much and is quite frankly not a valid point since neither of the two players prime time or even time in general overlapped. The point im making is that theoretically if whitecat joined osu when cookiezi did (2009), his recent yomi fc, his happy song S or his 1100pp plays would have happened around the same time or even before shiges freedom dive hdhr. Im not saying shige wasnt't was totally ahead of his time, cause he totally was but it shouldnt matter at all or act as a detriment to whitecats plays. Note this comes from an unbias POV cause i personally think the whitecat vs shige thing is fucking stupid and they shouldn't be compared side note: Not enough focus went on whitecats newer non farm scores and was portayed as a strict farmer which isnt entirely true anymore

[@kajxqeirscl]

yeah. Like the galaxy collapse [galaxy] 6 miss play.

[@Lord_Saladin_BDO]

i fully agree with you, there are so many plays like the 10* Jumps Lemon Tree or the Square Jump plays, Galaxy Collapse, so why portraying him as a strict farmer? ;)

[@chuggington4791]

2xmiss on Altar is terrifying

[@kahwws5190]

I prefer whitecat but remember maps that helped him get better wouldn’t have existed if he started when cookiezi did. His most impressive plays are 8-10* which weren’t common earlier than 2014

[@alancrome3684]

You have to think, you continually improve as you play the game right? Now if shige was doing that shit 2-3 years before everyone, imagine where he'd be today with out super long breaks or just outright quitting. The dude would probably be insane prolly FCing galaxy collapse since that type of map seems to be his strong suit. But, we will never know.

[@codecraftercc]

Because you talked more about Shige, here some Skilles/Scores from WhiteCat: Can read EZ and AR11 (with high acc), can play technical maps (like Logical Stimulus, Sound Chimera, Frozen One, Vanity Clock + HDDT, High Way Oblivion...), best aim and jump skills on this world (regardless if he plays HD, HR or even both at the same time, look Fool Moon Night, Galaxy Collapse, Monster, Inside, Altar and multiple unranked 9/10* jump maps) and can stream pretty good (on normal BPM) (Songs Compilation +HR, multiple Yomi Yori maps, Road of Resistance +HR, Euphoria...). Last but certainly not least, look at his (currenlty) 12 plays over 1000pp (and even 3 above 1100pp)! Of course they weren't all FCs, but they are all above Shiges skills. WhiteCats only real weakness is: that he can't stream high BPM (and maybe old maps)... PS: WhiteCat was 2 weeks after his unban #1 in the world (in pp) at the age of 15 years! For raw skill WhiteCat is clearly better (look at his age, of course he can't use this skills 2 years ago...) but Shiges fame and in matters inspiration he is probably the winner

[@ruruchi_]

WhiteCat isn't 15, he never claimed it, the community is just dumb and most skill you said are matched by other players which as said in the video makes the difference between a specialized player and a dominant player. Also TV Size 1kpp are common now by many players and i don't think that the whole 50 leaderboard is over shige. Also what you call "Raw skill" is actually specialized skill which are not the same, and in "row skill" you take into account EVERYTHING which is clearly not the case here because "WhiteCats only real weakness is: that he can't stream high BPM" and you make your statment without this. He has aim and reading speed, definetly not the fastest player (which is either Mrekk, RyuK and FreddieBenson), in fact, not being able to stream high bpm stops you from playing like 50% maps above 7*, DT or not.

[@codecraftercc]

@@ruruchi_ his one miss chimera play was his 16 birthday

[@spaghettikink1998]

@@ruruchi_ "definitely not the fastest player (which is [aim player], [stream player], [aim player]' Care to elaborate what you mean with a 'speed player'? When it comes to streams it's safe to say Merami is the best at the moment, while when it comes to pure aim WhiteCat is definitely the #1.

[@codecraftercc]

@@spaghettikink1998 hmm Badeu could rival him now

[@codecraftercc]

@@ruruchi_ You talk about, that many players rivals his skills, but shiges aren't rivaled, there are mostly beaten. But sure, many years later

[@Achraf801]

Bro stop lying to ourselves , Cookiezi might be more influential through Osu's history but Whitecat is clearly a better player overall with various skillsets .

[@delpannn1839]

Senkazo /cry

[@jovan8232]

And who are you to say that as a fact

[@alancrome3684]

So, right now yes whitecat is better, but overall throughout all the years, shige did things NO ONE else could even think of doing. If shige didn't quit ever, literally no one would be able to top him. Not to mention the types of maps shige liked to play, they aren't just DT farm maps like all of whitecats top plays. They are genuinely challenging feats of skill, done 2-3 years before anyone else could do them. if he kept playing he'd still be years ahead of everyone. That's the point, he did shit no one else could do.

[@jimy5086]

True but for some reason cookizie fans dont want to listen 🤷‍♀️

[@timj6897]

@@alancrome3684 lets be real who the fuck thought that galaxy collapse would get a 6x run. That play alone says how much ahead whitecat is of anyone

[@allezplz]

want to see a war? follow these 3 steps nubmer 1: go to comments number 2: sort by newest first number 3: enjoy

[@seanscott1308]

The term “Greatest player of all time” was poorly defined. Makes it difficult to know what your actually arguing for.

[@Kaguyaaa_x_x]

Comparing players cmonBruh Edit: Im not trying to join in the arguement but this guy seems to dislike and/or is trying to undermine whitecat throughout the video imo. I could be wrong dont flame me pls

[@ruruchi_]

welp he doesn't, as he said clearly in this video, the main point is not a number on a freaking HTML page, it's just about what the player did for the community

[@agony218]

this is the most biased video ive ever seen, you went through cookiezi's whole history and probably searched for hours to look for plays to prove your biased agenda meanwhile you literally looked at some of whitecat top plays and literally only 3 nomod/hr scores, you could have mentioned any score such as altar, galaxy collapse, dadadada; i personally think cookiezi was ahead of his time and that he is indeed the greatest player but i do not think the difference between the two is so much more different and its a shame you made this video without an unbiased opinion

[@mehdibouchaffra868]

Truee

[@Gobbbbb]

And his insane S rank on Happppy song. I don't really think FrenZ understands that just because somebody has a "legacy" doesn't make them the better player, they are both amazing in the different skill sets that they have, and WhiteCat has #1 for a reason, just like Shige used to have. In my opinion, it's too hard to say who is the better player.

[@Gobbbbb]

@DaRKMaRoWaK I still think frenz is way too biased and stuck in the past. I agree back then he was 100% the best player no doubt about it, but as of right now, WhiteCat overall is the better player Edit: (Maybe not by much, unless shige is playing offline lmao) I think WhiteCats recent improvement rate has shown how dominant he really is. I completely agree with what you say.

[@SayaKirasaka]

I guess 5:28 flew right over your head huh? He literally stated that he's biased towards shige. And as for gobee's comment: It clearly shows that you let your opinion be influenced by pp scores a lot, because aside from being able to read AR11 for 3 mod theres literally no technical mastery needed to perform those scores. And in every other aspect shige would still be able to match or surpass WhiteCat, so your "overall" goes out the window.

[@Gobbbbb]

@@SayaKirasaka The video is called Shige vs WhiteCat, and thats the issue with him being biased, are you stupid? Maybe you should watch more of WhiteCats plays from the past year and say he's only good at AR11. They both have godly skill sets that are in different areas. Shige has his time to shine but guess what, he doesn't anymore. Go and watch Merami if you want to see "technical mastery" whatever the fuck that means.

[@waterbottle2047]

Damn, this was actually really biased, not saying its a bad video, but boi was this subjective.

[@black_jace5338]

Yeah cause the only thing I heared is that cookiezie is the best and whitecat dosent deserve his rank cause people can beat him

[@bloodsh3dxd]

He showed stats and gave the objective result and continued with his opinion and supported it throughout the video.

[@juliuszhou6076]

I mean he did call it subjective opinion

[@oceanshmienek5462]

He literally said the second part of the video would be subjective and biased to his own opinion.

[@azureberry7535]

He literally said he was going to give his own opinion but go off 💀

[@daxolotl-]

This video should be called “Why I Think Shigetora Is Better Than WhiteCat, But I Only Talk About Shigetora”

[@ailucid]

4:33 then there’s also the first places he lost when he was banned and then got again after being unbanned so less than 400. 8:01 yeah but if you look at the replay whitecat chokes acc and misses only at the beginning and ending and he has a play with like same combo as cookiezi but S rank. Also there are a lot of crazy whitecat plays you didn’t include like his galaxy collapse 6 miss when everyone else had 50+ misses and euphoria hr 4 miss.And also whitecat got all these scores whitin less than a year of being unbanned so who onows what he will do in 4 years.Not to disregard cookiezi but in my opinion whitecat is definitly better than anyone else

[@finger1079]

S rank on Happppy Song, 1k combo on t-t-techno with dt, 98% on Tool-Assisted-Speedrun.

[@eqhlipse8120]

@@finger1079 and dont forget, all those plays didnt have hd on

[@iamgamer2032]

To be fair shige has hand issue so when he plays intese aim map his thumb starts hurting and can't hold pen properly (and if you didn't know he's had this issue for 3 years now)

[@KanaMedia101]

Whitecat would have serious competition if vaxei played more, but there's still others with potential such as merami

[@finger1079]

@@eqhlipse8120 T-t-techno did have HD on. Also, not having HD doesn't make the play less impressive you Cookie fanboy.

[@Vibrate69]

idk if it's me but i can feel the bias towards shige lmao

[@wonsherazukun5820]

Lol ur pfp looks like ur mad at this video

[@wasakurwa3722]

@@wonsherazukun5820 its Willy's pfp but red?

[@Vibrate69]

yup, it's from facebook messenger's old emoji design which was replaced

[@KushiroP]

5:28 he literally said it lmao

[@gronkh25]

This comment should be titled "Typical 6digit doesn't pay attention to the video in favour of fanboying for WhiteCat" since you obviously didn't pay attention when FrenZ said that he was biased towards Shige around the 5 minute mark

[@justsomerubikscubewithouta6867]

WARNING This video is made by a cookiezi fanboy.

[@clapatron1127]

Just Some Rubikscube Without A Mustache it really pains me to see the, and I really hate that’s he’s overlooking the fact that when cookiezi actually started playing, which I think was around 2010, whitecat was like 7 years old

[@pineconedz]

Ikr he spends 80% of the video talking about cookiezi and then like 1 minute on whitecat

[@ruruchi_]

@@clapatron1127 yeah, no whitecat IS NOT 15 YEARS OLD HE NEVER CLAIMED IT. also Environment of playing changes your way of playing, learning and improving, those 2 guys are not comparable and because of that, "hE jOiNeD iN 2009" is not an argument and a retarded statement.

[@godyne]

At the future, there will be another one surpassing whitecat and dominating osu for a period of time then it just repeats

[@Sonnoteca]

Cue Mrekk

[@trace8617]

another notable play in shiges favor would be his unsubmitted score on tool assisted speedcore.

[@froag1020]

That was a 1k wasn't it? If he submitted it I mean

[@trace8617]

@@froag1020 i dont believe so, but i could be wrong

[@froag1020]

trace I'm pretty sure it was, but he didn't submit it for a specific reason, I don't remember what

[@trace8617]

Im_Frostey i just checked, it wasnt even 800 pp with his acc. it also wasnt ranked. he didnt give any clear reason as to why he didnt submit.

[@AnoMaxo]

@@froag1020 he paused on the last slider and got depressed, like: Criminal: is your hand okay? Cookiezi: no Cookiezi: not ok Criminal: holy that was insane Cookiezi: I can't really hold my pen anymore Criminal: maybe time to call it a day? Cookiezi: so fucking bad Criminal: thats not a good sign Cookiezi: it was bad and first half literally killed my finger Cookiezi: yo... Cookiezi: rng player Cookiezi: when was last time i enjoyedthis game Cookiezi: fking tilt every single day

[@jojostalino1377]

When I started Osu back to 2010/11 There was Cookiezi on rank 1 in Airman. That was so awesome. I Think that cookiezi is still the best player today because he know how to do a wide variety of map and he is really consistant on anything. I don't play osu anymore but it's fun how it is so insane today. The most impressive player is Merami !

[@Bimuruu]

Why is this even a video. I wish people would just stop comparing players. Everyone here is biased. Make up your god damn mind about who's better, but dont argue and get mad at each other. They're both legendary players, but it is literally impossible to know what potential Whitecat and Cookiezi have... we wouldnt know how far they would/will go. I swear if this discussion is still here in 2 years then I will break something Btw: It is fine comparing, but I wish people would stop... in most cases, it's just anger and toxicity. If two people can respect each other while comparing, and tell each other why they think that way... then it would've been a much better experience.. just laugh about it. This discussion is literally so important to people that they are willing to spend their valuable time arguing for months or even years.

[@felix56291]

The only thing i heard was "Cookiezi is the better osu play because more twitter follower and youtube subscriber" Ok

[@decodedwolf6243]

okay and what?

[@felix56291]

Well the thing is that I personally disagree with FrenZ opinion here about how fame impacts your skill at the game. To me at least it seemed that FrenZ thinks that Cookiezi is the better player overall for a multitude of reasons (which is fair), however some of these reasons has to do with how famous Cookiezi is, for example when his twitter and youtube account gets mentioned. This is when I have to disagree a bit. But this is all just my opinion so take it however you want and that there isn't an opinion that is objectively correct. Hopefully this clears up the "okay and what?" question!

[@decodedwolf6243]

Felix Nordling ah got it thank for the input. I wanted to hear people’s opinions

[@berka8587]

@@felix56291 He wasn't taking social influence into the skill apartment of the players, he was making a statement about who the greatest is in the game and for that sense I do think influence comes into factor totally

[@Randy-io3wf]

you are basing a lot of the arguments on the fact that Shige was able to do those scores back then in 2016 so now WhiteCat doing it in 2019 or 2020 is not as good, if WhiteCat gets a better score than Shige, I mean thats it he got the better score, you cant say "he got the score but Shige got an impressive score even before they attemped it" you are also talking about influence when we are talking about who is the most skilled player. Im also not saying WhiteCat is better just saying that this makes WhiteCat look kinda bad when it shouldnt

[@klo4880]

When talking about greatness, we of course have to look at the era the player was active in. It's not even a discussion who the greater player is, cookiezi has been the best player in the world for practically the entire last decade, winning player of the year every single year he was active. Meanwhile he was setting some of the most legendary scores in osu history. Whitecat has been the best player for 1-2 years and has nowhere near the amount of legendary plays as Shige.

[@7evenotb871]

They’re both good players. Cookiezi literally just plays it as a game now

[@tkfkd1]

Correction. He doesnt even play anymore. He quit long time

[@lunarleaf]

well said edit: i agree with you overall, but you did one side it a *bit* much. whitecat has scores like embryo HR, TAS, galaxy collapase etc that are pretty unique and well ahead of others that are worth mentioning before dismissing him as a 3 mod precision aim player. you should also mention that shige has had nearly double the time to develop as a player compared to whitecat. But in the end, shige was more dominant in his time period than whitecat is now (if you dont believe me, his first 800 was set before most of the top 10 even got a 700pp score and took 2 years to even match (if you count remote control being nerfed, vaxeis fc was under 800). there are many ppl who can contest many of whitecats scores but not the same can be said about cookiezis scores in 2016 or really even now.

[@Brulos]

I find the end quote really confusing? You were trying to clarify what you mean by “greatest player” by saying that it wasn’t by the pp or scores then just ended of by just repeating “who was the greatest player” without defining what “greatest” meant

[@nazo4472]

No, HD is not just "visual preference".

[@egglion7931]

Tldr of the whole video. Cookiezi’s scores last unchallenged for 3 years: shows how amazing of a player he is. Whitecats scores last unchallenged for 2 years: he’s not that much better than anyone else

[@pineconedz]

I swear the dude who made the video has a hate boner for whitecat.

[@mambamelts453]

You are using popularity, subscriber count, viewcount, etc... as proof to why you think cookiezi is the better player which makes no sense. My opinion is that shige was ahead of his time, but whitecat is the better player of the two.

[@zeroslayz1201]

U are dumb shige is better overall player this is demonic btw

[@shrimp2751]

Do not compare, nobody is better, im the best (sarcams)

[@bustopher5837]

The comparison is about which player was better, and I believe that if you were to match cookiezi and whitecat both at their primes whitecat would win, and not only that I believe he has not reached his prime yet as you can see how improvement is really insane. Sure cookiezi was really influential and was way ahead of his time but we are talking about cookieizs best versus whitecats best, I don't even know his best he just keeps getting better honestly

[@brandoof637]

didnt he also beat cookies yori yori with a way higher combo choke and then he also got an s rank a couple days later

[@spongieowo]

@Santiago Rodriguez Newton LOL I wanna see him making ep2 of this after the end of this year

[@misuzu1flv629]

well there's also cookizies hdhr play on yomi yori out there...

[@Jose-qu9qk]

@@misuzu1flv629 no worries whitecat will fc it soon hdhr bro

[@berka8587]

@@Jose-qu9qk Jesus I hope ur joking...

[@Jose-qu9qk]

@@berka8587 i'm not.

[@brycegm361]

I just wanted to say that whitecat's accuracy is only due to his 3 mods plays, it would be different if he was only playing 2 mods max (99.55% acc on euphoria for exemple, 99.83% on sunglow hddt 5min today). Also cookiezi was here before 2014 and whitecat is improving a lot on streams and is already the best at tech streams. For now i agree that cookiezi is the most legendary player, but we'll see for the next years how it's going to evolve.

[@pierrecourtillat4148]

Talking about social media wasn’t really the best idea imo but fair enough. The only problem with this is video is probably that you don’t acknowledge that Whitecat is ahead of of everybody for he his doing right now ( maybe not everybody because you know Filsdelama, Ryuk, Rafis, Mrekk...). Sure both of them will be surpassed, but for now, both should be recognized equally for what they accomplished so far individually on different maps. Global ranking =/= Maps ranking.

[@seventwentyseven]

i have waited for a video like this

[@ElTovarish]

Thinking that pp is an objective way to compare them is pretty hilarious 草

[@cleetus6284]

The fact that shige was so ahead of his time is scary. imagine if he still felt enjoyment from the game. freaking hell

[@schoolpresentations3593]

To everyone saying that FrenZ was super biased to Cookiezi, he literally states it at 5:29.

[@davids7646]

Theres nothing wrong with comparing these two at all, But what should be noted is that shige has written his legend, whitecat is still in the middle of doing it. I mean shige can still come back but honestly I dont think he has the intention of getting the #1 partly because of skill but mostly because he probably doesn't really care anymore. But I'd be hyped to see whitecat vs cookiezie in tournament or even whitecat vs vaxei. Whitecat's tournament restriction is gonna get lifted soon and I really hope he gets to tournament so Im waiting if he won't dominate the tournament scene or does anyone else even have a chance. But honestly whitecat have super big potential on tournament scene.

[@3Dgaymer]

This video could be titled, I tell you why whitecat is better but I like cookiezi better cause it gives me nostalgia

[@alexgeorge3532]

honestly, this video is still in the past. Whitecat is CLEARLY more dominant now

[@berka8587]

He isn't dominant if you still mean to compare him to Shige, but he is the best rn since Shige and Vaxei is gone.

[@felix56291]

Cookiezi has more upvotes on reddit so he's the better osu player and can click circle better

[@billylanpowell8265]

I think you should've gave this video a different title like, "Who is the most legendary?", because the vs. makes it seem like it would be just numbers only, but there's a lot more than numbers in this comparison and I think that left a lot of viewers with a bad taste and a salty attitude

[@gbx2615]

Not Billis no the term „greatest“ fits only because people are too dumb to understand the meaning of the word and are salty because they think he’s calling whitecat a worse player objectively doesn’t mean you have to change to a more childish title like“legendary“

[@billylanpowell8265]

@@gbx2615 I honestly haven't seen enough of Shigetora or Whitecat to call either one better and I haven't given any notion of which player I like more. I don't know why you think I'm a salty fanboy. The title implies a contest of pure skill, and my opinion was that a lot of viewers didn't expect social media influence and fame as part of the video, leaving them salty.

[@austin9121]

Long time players are biased towards shigetora and new players are biased towards whitecat. Its only natural to be biased towards who you looked up to at your time.

[@SoleiLilyn]

Like old people are biased around WubWubWolf.

[@shoaggyyum6197]

The god only comes every few years to tell #1 he's actually 2#.

[@gabrielb2849]

underrated comment

[@Stanky_Foot]

I dont think it's mentioned enough how much HARDER streams are with hidden

[@berka8587]

Yeah I think that too, it's like yeah sure Cookiezi is a HD only player but that doesn't make it any less harder to do. He has mastered HD but that doesn't mean that you can disregard the difficulty of HD. It's like saying EZDT scores are not as impressive as people think just because youve masterd the skill of reading low AR...

[@mochi6776]

cookiezi hasnt quit we all know he's offline practicing 3 mod just to come back a year later to snipe all of whitecats scores

[@AdrianPothead]

He can't play 3 mod

[@newleafoverit]

@@AdrianPothead you can't

[@AdrianPothead]

@@newleafoverit No shit, but he can't play as well :)

[@TheDinis553]

We can only dream, jimbo

[@newleafoverit]

@@AdrianPothead tru

[@nyu7698]

Can't wait to see Shigetora back

[@whitecat7587]

I personally think that both player are very good and they have different skills while shige is about stream then whitecat is about aim and is very hard to say who is better but i think whitecat is just a tiny bit better in some skills and yes shige is more famous and are remember more for his isane play like made of fire HDDT but that just because that when he achieve #1 on global he is ahead of everyone in his era and some very rare people who can catch up to him like rafis but with whitecat is a whole different story because when he achieve #1 global he has a bunch of people who can catch up to him like ryuk, vaxei, aetrna and most likely mrekk and because of that his score always get snipe for example is team magma HDDTHR snipe by mrekk but everything that i just said does not mean that shige is a bad player in fact shige is one of a few old player that can stand up to todays meta like rafis

[@madguy3984]

Everyone has their own turn,be patient and wait. (I dont literally mean to wait like doing nothing,keep on practicing) Shige inspired many osu player. But let us accept that(maybe) shige reached his own peaked. Let us watch new players in their prime setting own play... Btw im one of the players inspired by shige's insane play...and i honestly say that this vid is bias .

[@zukosu]

Frenz dissing whitecat for 20 mins

[@Yamisu]

I do believe there is some biased here, but keep in mind, this is FrenZ opinion, and I respect that whole heatedly. As someone who has played since 2015 even before Cookiezi's unban, I also believe that Cookiezi is the better player than WhiteCat, however, this video seems a little too biased in my opinion. I guess that makes sense since it hasn't even been a year yet since WhiteCat's unban and there isn't much history about WhiteCat before this. With that in mind, don't take this video personally and ultimately, completely seriously. Judging players and saying which is better is never the right thing to do imo. WhiteCat is BETTER than Cookiezi at 3 mod and aim. Cookiezi is BETTER than WhiteCat at streams and consistency. It's all different for players, so watch this video with a grain of salt. Not saying that this is a bad video, i enjoyed watching this video and it was nice to see a side by side comparison between these amazing and historical players in the osu community and I wish there were more of these for other great players as well, because I think this kind of concept of looking at it both objectively and subjectively is really neat and creative.

[@Rkahklsnnsjskeek]

For the most impressive: cookiezi For the skill: whitecat

[@ultrav5012]

ah yes, the classic "it was emotional" so imma side with cookiemint argument that's not even an argument

[@Juuzool]

*Merami entered the chat*

[@shinra05]

this is such a stupid comparison lol cookiezi dominated by being better than everyone back in the day so obviously hes more popular

[@Defywastaken]

Isn't that what Whitecat's doing right now? Lol

[@jimy5086]

@@Defywastaken yea but since cookiezi did it first nobody wants to hear whitecat is better

[@dumteaa]

not to mention that for years shige just didn't go for pp, and he barely retries many of the maps these insane scores are on :)

[@minecraftpufferfish9066]

Or maybe we could all stop comparing players? It's a stupid thing to do. There is no objective way of comparing PEOPLE, so these discussions just cause controversy and contribute nothing to the community. You all have to realize that the players being compared don't appreciate this either, just imagine this: "OMG, some random kid on KZbin said that I'm better than another player!" That doesn't happen, because OSU! IS JUST A FUCKING GAME. THE FACT THAT ONE RANDOM KID CLICKS CIRCLES NOT LIKE ANOTHER KID DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. There are many great players, and we should just appreciate their skills instead of comparing them like they are new phones.

[@SM12Killer3]

What do you think about vaxei?

[@dijinixiamn-5272]

Imo vaxei is better at speed, consistency maps, tech maps and old maps. Whitecat is better at the rest

[@SM12Killer3]

@@dijinixiamn-5272 the thing that separates cookiezi and vaxei from whitecat is speed. They can do everything that whitecat can do like aim jumps three mod and spaced streams but whitecat can't do high bpm streams at all

[@rhy8521]

@@SM12Killer3 which is Ironic because he has the best yomi yori score

[@SM12Killer3]

@@rhy8521 yomi yori is 220 and for example there is koa who is rank 160 and he can do 240. 250+ is considered speed

[@epicpeegaming2438]

Sm12KiLLeR GaMeR name some 3 mod scores from cookiezi, and some really good 3 mod scores from Vaxei. They aren't close to matching him in 3 mod. Cookiezi at the end of his time, couldn't even read ar10.

[@bodyfeint2711]

Well, considering how mrekk now passed WhiteCat, I would say that this video is pretty accurate

[@reshia]

the chicken survived the frying

[@blanktime]

I feel like this wasn't a very good comparison. Whitecat is still improving everytime he plays and hasn't played at his skill level for even a year yet, while Shige has been improving and playing for basically a decade. I feel like a better comparison would be Vaxei vs Cookiezi since Vaxei is basically the closest anyone has gotten to his skill. Cool video though.

[@alancrome3684]

I think the best player should go to who can set scores no one else can at the time. The fact that its taken multiple years for anyone to compete with some of his scores is a testament to his insane skill and if he'd kept playing, imagine what he'd be today.. Shige is better in that sense, yet whitecat honestly is just as good if not better. idk man they are both fucking crazy

[@Tappytw]

If Whitecat learns to death stream it’s over

[@mahawailoh]

"I thought that Whitecat is only an aim player" ???? People still calling him a dt one trick?? After he fced maps like euphoria, yomi yori, logical stym? When it comes to raw skill, Whitecat is better than shige. Shiges Era is over, he peaked years ago. Its true that he was far ahead of everyone else in his era. But things have changed, people have caught up and did what he couldnt: push boundaries even more.

[@93bd9]

im not saying that shige is better or whitecat is bad BUT fdfd will stay forever

[@Jose-qu9qk]

@@93bd9 people said many things would never be possible.

[@berka8587]

@@Jose-qu9qk Yeah but the acc wont be sniped, when he fc's it, it might not even be 99% acc but let's wait and see I guess

[@Itsplane_]

It does not matter who is best there both part of osu! History

[@keulenkenny]

"The shock factor wasnt there when WhiteCat FCed Logical Stimulus" EXCUSE ME WHAT not a whitecat fanboy btw I love both of these players but this is so biased to cookiezi holy

[@berka8587]

Yeah that was fucking stupid lol, I even think Cookiezi is better but that was so shit to say honestly

[@aaaaaa-py6sg]

waiting que for cookiezi stan vs whitecat stan

[@stablerot]

just face it cookiezi isn't better than whitecat nor is he the best player in the world anymore

[@calebosu]

16:06

[@gdilukes3970]

lol true

[@zaxgn]

@@calebosu this video is biased anyways lol

[@AdrianPothead]

Insane bias.

[@CryogenicFrost]

(PREFACE: I am looking at this topic as objectively as possible, even when my own personal bias comes in, that is regards to the criteria that determines who is better, not due to any bias towards either player. I think that WhiteCat and Shige are both AMAZING players in their own right, and personally, I don't care to compare the two, but seeing the merit in doing so for this video, I plan on doing my best.) In terms of "Who is the better player AT THE MOMENT", the key words being at the moment, that would easily be WhiteCat as his plays are unparalleled, and will likely stay that way for a while, however, if we talk about overall, it's a bit tricky as most compare the peaks/consistency based off of pp which is very unfair. Cookiezi has boosted the popularity of osu by himself (that's what caused me to come into the game, though I'm a mania player lol), and while his plays are famous and legendary, they are still able to be beaten, and WhiteCat continues to do so.... slowly. Due to the capability Cookiezi possessed at the time, taking his chokes into account, the argument of him being the greatest player due to how far in advance plays of his caliber were is very strong. However, with WhiteCat's rise at the current time, it's safe to say that he's an extremely strong player, but the question of him being the GREATEST player will come down to how long it takes for plays of his to be matched. With the primary reasoning/argument for the two players being pp vs unranked, there are things that need to be addressed. With a constantly shifting meta, looking at one part in particular (or even entirely) will always benefit WhiteCat due to the ranked system typically favoring fast, aim heavy jumps. And while Shige doesn't possess/hasn't possessed as great of fast aim, we have seen his aim be very precise with the given plays in the video. It is unfair to look at only pp as that merely looks at the ability to cooperate with the meta, and players who are better suited by it are clearly going to appear better (Even though personally I believe that WhiteCat is the better player OBJECTIVELY). So looking at unranked/"legendary plays" there are several godmodes on both players, the matching of each being very few and far between. So subjectively looking at it, I would say that the better player "of all time" is the one whose plays remain uncontested for the longest amount of time, as this shows that they were far ahead of the skill that was visible at the time, and that their plays are unrivaled for a reason. When it comes to that, it isn't fair to say who the better player is at the current moment, as WhiteCat's scores haven't been contested yet. When the time comes around where WhiteCat has a viable competitor (I personally don't think that will be for a looooong time given the current gap as of this comment) I believe THEN is when the discussion may be had about "Who is the GOAT" as the two's "lifespan" as the top player for their time will have a date on it, and be compared to each other equally based on time, NOT based on current knowledge/dominance. tl;dr : WhiteCat is by far the best player at the current moment, but, the question of "Who is the best player of all time?" cannot be answered until WhiteCat is met by another competitor to truly see how far ahead of his time he is, just like Cookiezi was about 2 or 3 years ahead of the other players during his "peak". p.s.: It's just like comparing box office sales based on current monetary value. Because of inflation, the newer films will definitely have an edge due to their monetary currency at their date being closer to the current value, rather than a film from say 50 years ago. Oh, and if you made it this far, thanks for reading, have a great day :)

[@berka8587]

This is such a respectable comment, I personally think Cookiezi is better but I would just like to say that Vaxei seems to be overshadowed by these two players, Vaxei could easily contest with both of them if he just played more... The reason I think hes being overshadowed is because people think Whitecat is better because of how he sniped Vaxei from the #1 spot but if you just think about it, Vaxei only comes from time to time and suddenly gets insane score, wether it would be high bpm scores or pp jump scores. He has the overall balance of Cookiezi (Worse than Cookiezi's overall skills in my opinion) and jump ability of Whitecat and he doesn't even play that often. I love seeing Vaxei play because it's like, he can do everything. Whitecat cant match Cookiezi in overall stream skill or consistency but Vaxei can. Cookiezi can't match Whitecats DT skills (for reasons like his vision and so, anyways) but Vaxei can. I really miss both Vaxei and Cookiezi because they get scores that are just so wierdly unique in my opinion. I love watching Whitecat too but I'd rather watch plays that aren't jump heavy maps (Yes I know about every score Whitecat has set and they are amazing but there are scores on maps that he has not set that are very fun to watch) such as soulless 4 or Cycle hit HDDT or Made of fire HDDT... I do believe Whitecat will become the best objectively in time if Vaxei doesn't come back, Cookiezi is till insane but if he would come back he would be at the same level as hes been for a very long time and I don't think he can improve that much more but Vaxei has made such huge improvents everytime he's come back and that is so fun to watch and I do think Vaxei could be better than Whitecat if he just played. Anyway, I like your arguments and hope you have a nice day aswell :)

[@Nole2701]

Cookiezi FC'ing furioso melodia HDHR was also legendary.

[@ddd-op5wy]

HE'S BACK

[@dark4ever990]

So players like Vaxei arent legends?

[@LeafyGrovyle]

Vaxei is a legend, but shige and whitecat have the godlike skillsets which are uncontested. Said by comment section

[@pineconedz]

He is but it's unlucky that whitecat popped up and completely overshadowed him during his prime so most people have their focus on whitecat

[@CapnSurvivalist]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this video is incredibly biased towards Shigetora. Every single positive toward toward WhiteCat had a but attached to it. I get that Shige was way ahead for his time, but talking about their number 1s is kinda pointless because there is no doubt that WhiteCat would have way more if he was unrestricted more than a year ago. I agree that AS OF NOW Shige has probably been the most influential player, but as you yourself said, WhiteCat has only been well known for less than a year now whereas Shige has been in the spotlight for a decade, so that might change eventually. This video feels more like fanboying over how good Shige was than a decent comparison between the two players.

[@anayansivega2135]

White cat farm like beast, chocomint plays maps like god, both players play in differents ways.... I think they enjoy the game like they look better for them

[@wcz2891]

Everyone gansta until merami gets whitecat aim

[@orb5045]

Imagine cookiezi comes back and does 2k pp plays

[@Kearskill]

I can imagine that

[@SuperHardcoreTroller]

10:20 you talk about these players making those plays a while ago yet even after all that time they still couldn't manage to fc ROR hr. Close doesn't cut it, and the fact that whitecat can do what they do better, but they cant do 3 mod just shows how superior he is.

[@TheMonk111]

thinking hd is negligible on a map like logical stimulus sweat smile

[@bora3064]

holy shit i can sense the bias and the amount of cookiezi the god oml bro actual ultimate cookiezi fanboy

[@jonathand3842]

whitecat fanboys accusing cookiezi fanboys of fanboysm same for vaxei and hvick

[@Simrasil_]

idk dude comparing two players based on the ranking metrics (pp in this case) is fine but as soon as you make up your own metrics the comparison loses most of its meaning... back when shige played the mapping style was alot different the whole "meta" and score weighting was alot different, also the player base was a lot smaller so just statistically it was easier to set "unrivalled" scores back then. Shige basically played a different game than whitecat. It's like comparing an overwatch player with a csgo player it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That being said: in their respective eras they were/are both obviously among the very best.

[@irkypots]

chocomint not the best anymore stop this pls

[@VERITAS99]

@@asdasdasdasddcz 👶🏼

[@klo4880]

Do you know what greatness means? Obviously he's not the best right now, considering he's inactive.

[@irkypots]

@@klo4880 he's obviously the most legendary player of all time but skillwise he's been surpassed by actually quite a bit

[@klo4880]

@@irkypots when we’re talking about the greatest player of all time, we’re not talking about who is best right now. We are instead talking about things like, legacy, longevity, peak ability, among other things. No one can compete with shige in regards to the title of the greatest of all time. Maybe white cat can compete for the title in a few years if he continues to improve, dominate and set legendary scores.

[@klo4880]

@@irkypots I also want to add that players are not that much better than him now as evidenced by the numerous #1 scores he still holds. His tech and reading ability are also probably still unmatched, among other things.

[@dgxdreamzzz9751]

You’ve got to take into account when both of them joined. Shigetora in 2017 had 8 years of experience under his belt, while white cat only had 3. White cat has now had 6 years of experience and is completely crushing the game. Not disrespecting cookiezi in anyway, but I’ve got to give it to white cat. He’s had less time and can beat a lot of the top players on a lot of maps.

[@must08]

3:18 cookiezi be #38 but after pp rebalance, he's gonna climb back up to top 20 without even touching the game

[@berka8587]

That is terrifying to know...

[@grossiegore4491]

There’s gonna be a pp rebalance? Why?

[@berka8587]

Grossie Gore Because it needs rebalance

[@drsolo7]

Then we have the half robot half human vaxei

[@KATSU_M]

both are AMAZING players. cookiezi used to be #1 and will be remembered as one of the, if not the best player osu had. but he doesn’t enjoy the game anymore. his injury makes it difficult to play. the way i see it is that they are both equal in level, just different eras and whitecat stands #1 right now

[@tvt2428]

Whitecat is number 2 rn but yeah

[@x_shiro0]

true, cookiezi was number one for the longest time then any player was (2013 and 2017 era)

[@srijanchakraborty203]

Vaxei is an inactive bacon. Don't sell him short.

[@deltareivax]

For me we can't judge cause nobody want to tryhard and beat Cookiezi's plays. Nobody wanted to have a cookiezi skillset. The only one who can do it easly is whitecat. But does he want to do it ? Me currently I wait that somebody farm cookiezi's scores. I can't do it so i wait... I just hope that whitecat would do it.

[@Pwanchi]

It'd be an interesting few months when Shige comes back