CopyRight - CopyWrong | Plagiarism in Architecture?

[@ArchDaily]

Very good video, dealing with a usual question in architecture, and other creative industries. Our creative process is the result of divergent thinking, that can only be fueled being exposed to new or different ways of doing things, what others are doing. That makes architecture evolve. (David B)

[@Archimarathon]

Thank you David. Tune in weekly for our weekly episodes on architecture. This is my new contribution to architecture since PushPullBar.

[@wrongcreativity]

In 1948, Picasso had said "We have invented nothing." after visiting the Lascaux Cave filled Ancient Painting estimated to be over 15,000 years old. Every "new" idea has its origins from copying/learning from another idea - even if its learnt subconsciously. I agree with Andrew that we do stand on the shoulder of giants and hopefully in the future, we too can piggyback others to stand taller. The idea of copying a method/style/process/layout is an essential part of learning in architecture and in creating better method/style/process/layout of our own. We inherit the ideas/knowledge from others to expand it further. Tech is a good example. We now have 1 TB mini SD cards that could track its origins back to a cabinet size Disk Hard Drive that holds 4MB - building off the previous generations methodology and improving it to be faster, larger, and more efficient.

[@Archimarathon]

Also from Picasso, “Good artists copy, great artists steal.” Great line

[@Fatlou_]

Exactly...each site is unique to its context, constraints and user needs...how could someone possibly worry about their plans getting copied(understood but unrealistic). On the other hand, if a designer is willing to share their plans/sections - it helps others better understand their design thinking and strategies applied to xyz - and that's what we can learn and reference. Some of my favourite architects share their plans and sections of their projects on their websites(Nielsen Jenkins, Taylor Knights etc) and I enjoy going back and forth looking at the drawings and the photos. At the end of the day you can't steal skills and experience.

[@Archimarathon]

Can’t steal skills and experience which can often be seen in the drawings.

[@LJLancaster]

i'm loving these videos. Such a simple concept of walking through a city and having a conversation. No fancy video equipment or transitions. Just simple entertaining conversation. Keep it up lads.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks. It’s the easiest video I have put together that’s for sure. Andrew still thinks I need more overlay visuals. I am putting this out there to test the water

[@ShowItBetter]

Each video just gets better and better! I love that I am getting to know Melbourne with these small walks around the city. It would be interesting if you talked on a video on "Australian" architecture and showed us the most emblematic examples! Would love to see more of the studio as well! Greetings from Colombia.

[@Archimarathon]

👋 thanks for watching and compliments. In regards to the studio, the latest episode (HOW TO ARCHITECT ACCORDING TO STOCK PHOTOS) is filmed in Austin Maynard Architects’ office.

[@ShowItBetter]

Archimarathon Yeah...I commented a bit early and didn´t notice haha. Right now I am watching the stock * photo* s video. Thanks!

[@racasseb]

Show it Better and Archimarathon collab? 👀

[@sarahlebner6065]

100% YES! Years ago I saw Andrew at a student conference and remember him saying “steal well” 😁 Warwick Mihaly also did a great article around this time comparing the wine industry with the architecture industry and how we ‘hoard’ ideas as architects while the wine industry share generously and recognise that they are stronger the more that have collaborative ‘hive’ intelligence and momentum.

[@sadiauddin4237]

Great video, i agree with things mentioned in the video... Humans have mirror neurons and we learn via observational learning.... There have been scientific studies proving this... Its simply why when someone yawns we end up yawning too, or have the abililty to empathise. Humans that dont have the abililty to empathise like serial killers tend to have faulty mirror neurons. Why do some people see copying as immoral or unethical?? Its literally how we are shaped IMO..

[@mapout.studio]

Totally agree, luckily we'll be adding a little something somewhere. If someone takes your work as a reference is a great compliment. We always share plans and sections but I've been ask why by clients. I can get where that come from in a remodel of a flat where there are now exact same "sites" . It makes absolutely no sense for a detached house or building site.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks Aritz. We took that theme and ran with it and I think talked about important issues and ideas.

[@mike91884]

Couldn't agree more! The more we are able to learn from the successes and failures of each other, the better we will all be for it. We are in a collaborative profession after all

[@Archimarathon]

That’s an interesting point as group work is often frowned upon at Uni from both students (they think it’s unfair and have to work with difficult people) and from staff (difficulty in marking) perspective.

[@blessedarch]

First I loved the start of this video .... XD.... & I actually liked the video a lot. All the points raised are quite interesting. We had a guest speaker in our school who was also the dean of one of the best archi schools in India. For one of his projects, he had to design a community dwellings of sort (like a small village). He said he always had a habit of taking small copies of houses that he liked, like keeping a copy of their plans. For this project, he brought out all his copies and started playing with them and composing them to create this whole village and also carved out community spaces in between. Ofcourse everything morphed once it came down to the detailing, but I think it was a very simple and powerful idea. You can see where your creativity and your vision drives you, but to achieve that you do not have to try and reinvent the wheel.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks. Great story! Do you have the name of the speaker?

[@blessedarch]

@@Archimarathon his name is Neelkanth Chhaaya

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks. I’ll look him up

[@sparkl3dust17]

Great discussion. It was interesting to hear you both distinguish architecture from technology and art at various points in the video. My takeaway is: Architecture is not technology, it is not inventing something new. Sole preoccupation with "invention" leads to innovation for sake of innovation and quickly loses purpose, meaning, and value. Architecture is not art because there are constraints shaping the work. It doesn't need to be "original." Sole preoccupation with originality leads to work that is esoteric and irrelevant. Architecture is "re-mixing", "re-interpretation", "transformation": Architects have to know when to invent vs. when to reuse old ideas; they have to know when to put forward a new and challenging perspective vs. when to respect traditions and norms.

[@ISCDESIGNAustralia]

I like your humble attitude Andrew. its refreshing

[@JesseLockhartKrause]

Enjoying the walk around chats, great mix of ideas and random architecture sightings. That’s how life is.

[@Archimarathon]

Yeah the vlog style is quite easy and organic

[@racasseb]

I think it was Picasso who said that part of the process of creating art is stealing from your influences. In the case of the said colleague that used the plans of an existing building into another site disregarding its climate positioning is definitely not the way to do it. Though when architectural elements from different referenced projects or pieces of design are used to synthesise into something new will always have a space as something original. This a way that allows architecture to move forward.

[@Archimarathon]

I think that case was a lesson to show that the student really didn’t understand the building he/she copied and a more educational and constructive critique than otherwise.

[@alisonlh1509]

Great video! Just a correction (for the benefit of those studying for registration in Au). Copyright is covered by statute, not common law! Copyright Act 1968 is one of the few commonwealth acts affecting architects. And moral rights were introduced in the Copyright Amendment (Moral Rights) Act 2000.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks Alison for the clarification.

[@ruanerasmus5601]

Great video! We're not allowed to do presentations if we don't show precedents. Its proving that this idea has been implemented somewhere, materially it's changed and adapted to your context but someone already did the work in showcasing it to be successful/unsuccessful.

[@Archimarathon]

Yes I used to often ask students to give me an example of when such a situation work, either as a project or as a personal experience. It’s surprisingly how detached many are from that.

[@D_SQ]

2:03 This analogy is pretty good. However, for it to make the intended point, it must assume that the person 'stealing' the great chef's recipe is probably a layman who hasn't culinary experience. If you are a trained chef (Professional Architect), and you take another chef's great recipe, you are probably going to produce just as good a dish and tend towards producing an even better dish depending on your skills because you may add to the recipe, elements that were a blindspot to the original chef. So through your 'improved' design, you are probably going to advance Architecture or whatever. But have you undercut the original Architect in the process? IDK. 🤷‍♂️ It's all very interesting.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks for the comment. Well the thing is, that won’t happen by people posting up plans and sections of a design. And if it is built, then yes someone might improve on it and that’s how architecture progress.

[@eyesonscreen]

Thanks for the local context in the last two videos. Always thought that was an essential part of any architectural travel.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks. Once we can travel again, we can properly film and talk about context.

[@shokoladniybegemot]

Theres a quote from a famous Russian film that often comes up at work when looking for references - 'everything has already been stolen before us' 😄

[@Archimarathon]

Steal it back.

[@akshaymehta4574]

I really love listening to your honest conversations.

[@Archimarathon]

Great to hear

[@katiross]

I am so glad I found your channel ! Thanks for the videos

[@Archimarathon]

Great that you found us.

[@EdgarTheEagle]

Absolutely right on point!.... nowadays "time" constraints is an issue as well; I wish I could have the time to massage a design or come up with one, two or as many solutions as I wish, or something "out of the box".

[@Archimarathon]

Sorry I just noticed I reply this thinking it was the latest video. Experience plays a huge role in that.

[@huongxuantruong6733]

if the designer aware and have will for the moves of the design, he should totally own the work no matter where the inspiration come from. To be honest, it is not an easy-feeling to see something similar to mine, but thinking of the endless amount of creativity throwing out there, one idea of mine is just a layer, and most of the time, for myself.

[@Archimarathon]

Thank you for commenting. I agree

[@bernardwind1633]

When I was at uni, I shared my idea for a assignment to a guy I was talking to by the photocopier, I ran out of time to exacute the model and submitted a B grade version. I later saw my idea, with the site I proposed, on display in the library...I think there is a hollow victory in taking credit for someone else's idea. However "standing on shoulders of giants" and copying work needs to extend the concept, in doing so everyone wins

[@Phil_Cleaver]

I am interested to know if A&M have been working on a house in Ainslie (Canberra). I drove past yesterday and I was immediately struck by the ideas of Empire House being expressed. It illustrates this video; one has inspired the other but because of the different original starting criteria they are related but unique.

[@snarkitect]

I feel like I learn so much after every video

[@SM7LArchitecture]

I agree with all of what has been said, but wonder why the profitable demountable and cookie cutter buildings weren’t mentioned

[@killerofprimes]

Recently, HOK copied a Columbia student's work straight up... Love to hear your insight on it!

[@Archimarathon]

Without seeing the works in comparison it is hard to comment. Do you have them? I don’t believe so because I have never seen any truely original work from any students, everything is based on something else unless we are talking polemical work which is rare if it ever gets built, and often with heavily compromised aspects to suit the real world.

[@killerofprimes]

​@@Archimarathon You can find it at @andrew.keung profile on instagram

[@Archimarathon]

Looks like a lazy copy of it as a diagram. The original idea is not new but yes they got lazy and used an existing image as the groundwork for a diagram. They are not going to build it like that though. It’s a murky ground of “fair use” as they have also tweaked the design a bit in the diagram.

[@CURAMI]

Bowie once said: "[I'm] More like a tasteful thief. The only art I’ll ever study is stuff that I can steal from."

[@Archimarathon]

Another great one from Bowie

[@JonZellweger]

Late to the party here.... Kevin: your cooking metaphor: if you are not already familiar, dig around and find some Marco Frascari articles. He was the foremost researcher/academic/architect that explicated some sophisticated cooking architecture analogs. It's a really rich seam of ideas to mine, especially if you are trying to guide students.

[@Archimarathon]

Thanks for the heads up

[@1xm_mx1]

We are "standing on the shoulders of giants", "giants" being made up of many ideas built up by mixing and matching different ways. Just like music, we can "sample" and "remix" without plagiarizing.

[@urbancolab]

All scotches contain barley, water and yeast. Thats it. Three ingredients. Are all scotches copies of each other? No! Each one is flavored by it's maker and the resources of it's locale.

[@benkeane797]

After the events of 0:33 I can't help but wonder what happened to the pedestrian in the cut at 5:18 😅

[@Archimarathon]

It’s a dog-eat-dog world

[@D1945-k5h]

i agree and disagree with comment about copying. Yes i think pragmatically to make money we are copying from the conventional point of view i think this is right but how can we ignore the innovations of FLW in the Robi house and Le Corb Villa Savoy and Mies Farnsworth house and Murcutts Marie Short house these examples of architecture have changed the attitude in architecture from we have to get out of nature to we want to get closer to nature this is modern architecture now. Not everyone has made to this level of innovation very few but these are innovation and have changed architecture :)

[@MatthewBayard]

@14:43 I was expecting the camera to drop!

[@Archimarathon]

Whenever Andrew touch my camera gear I expect them to break

[@MatthewBayard]

@@Archimarathon oh no.

[@mrfreeze88]

Great video!

[@Archimarathon]

Thank you

[@mrfreeze88]

I remember you guys, especially Kevin, from the PushPullBar days. Have subscribed to your channel. Best of luck guys.

[@Archimarathon]

Ahh yes. PushPullBar. We have a refugee group as well as a new PPB4 forum group on Facebook.

[@mrfreeze88]

Archimarathon well I need to check it out. 👍

[@ezramartins48]

Wow just wow, first time here.

[@Archimarathon]

Glad you liked it. Hope to see you around.

[@waynewong8540]

0:33 i was like wtf lol

[@Archimarathon]

Mean streets of Fitzroy.

[@Fatlou_]

me too

[@manueldouglas5180]

I've been to an architect's office for a open arch office event hosted every year in Cape Town (this is before I started studying architecture) They did not allow me to take pictures of the plans and sections almost as of I was going to copy thier design

[@Archimarathon]

A lot of times firms have projects where they have to sign non-disclosure agreements as they are not made public knowledge yet so I can see why in that case.

[@hurtecho]

Well said guys ! Couldn't agree more !! Copy that indeed ! I remember this fucker though who downloaded a project he found online and presented it in school as his own and got a higher grade than me...that little shitt ! I don't wish him bad but I hope he's unemployed...[ops...] Andrew mentioned a job that he did not get because somebody took over the project for half the fee which is CRAZY !!! maybe consider a short video on "Project'S PRICING" or how to even charge an architecture/design job for freelance starting architects, because this is a given: If you charge too cheap then you're screwing up your colleagues and the rest of the guild by dropping the fees a considerable amount in order to get some jobs, but if you charge "too much" [mostly what you believe it's a fair price without being pretentious] then you won't get any jobs because people generally don't have the culture to hire an architect and won't spend, so, where do we meet in the middle on this pricing matter ?! Please continue to spit out random shitt everywhere, we appreciate it deeply.

[@Archimarathon]

Well unfortunately some practices are willing to get paid peanuts and exploit their staff to get the job, outbidding others by lowering the professional fees. It’s not good for the profession and respect.

[@beaustoker3466]

Ok this isn't my understanding of plagiarism in architecture. If someone steals your drawing file. And passes your work off as theirs. Nothing changed. Literally taking your work your file. Taking your plans cutting off the border and putting their border on it. Is that or is that not plagiarism?

[@beaustoker3466]

I can go into a house. Draw an asbuilt. Do some tweaks make it fit the lot with the desired feel. Yes I'm using the asbuilt as inspiration. Making it similar. But fitting it to the lot. Again my main issue is literally someone taking an architect's drawing file. No redraw. No layer switches. Just taking their raw file. And claiming it their work.

[@robertrusso877]

Steal like an artist! Great video.

[@RB-zm4fk]

Refinement Imagine if every idea was refined

[@Archimarathon]

Indeed. Have you seen that Everything Is A Remix Part 3 video?

[@RB-zm4fk]

@@Archimarathon no I haven't I'll look into it

[@dcotai2902]

A 20/20 Vision.....( a creative non-fiction ) In the end does one become a Architect to express a humanity or is it, a humanity seeking expression in Architecture ? It is time, in the end, we must all face the facts. Do we participate in a promise of debt or a promise of a shared humanity? A..calls on us to hope. B..calls on us to hope. I'm not talking about blind optimism here - the almost willful ignorance that thinks underpaid employment will go away if we just don't talk about it, or the pandemic crisis will solve itself if we just ignore the Annual leave deductions. No, I'm talking about something more substantial. It's the lunchtime hope of the office gathering around a microwave singing Christmas carols; the hope of Hungarian and Italian immigrants from Europe setting out for distant shores; the hope of young new RIBAs bravely patrolling the Airport constuction site; the hope of the young modelmaker who dares to defy the odds; the hope of a skinny architecture grad from Budapest, with a Hungarian name who believes that Hong Kong has a place for her, too. Hope in the face of difficulty. Hope in the face of uncertainty. The hope ......

[@mattrossgall]

1.0.0.%. There ain't nothin new under the sun...

[@Archimarathon]

Haha. Well Covid19 is new *sigh

[@mattrossgall]

@@Archimarathon Lol ya got me 😂

[@Archimarathon]

Well technically corona viruses are not new but different mutations are. So I guess it goes with our theme

[@rmontena4583]

is just borrowing.

[@Archimarathon]

Good artists borrow. Great artists steal

[@greggoodley2945]

It seems very unlikely that certain architects from the 1800s who have been given ownership of that title, are legitimate! Lawson in New Zealand is named as Architect of upto 50 even, more grand structures in consecutive years, 1 a week!!! now considering labour skill, materials, access, land clearing , completion of one seacliffe assylum type monstrosity a week in 1870 NZ.!! It can only be a fabrication, inline with all the others around word of that time. it beggars belief! I believe a Mr Black on Australia was an Architect of similar fictional ability, or is everyone living in fairyland?? World fairs , great fires,, all a clearly fabricated reality to hide the truth of history, it's obvious if you look a bit deeper to the stories written, do some maths, check news papers of the time, open your eyes and see lies