Correcting Bump Steer using Lasers and a Welder.

Today on The Skid Factory AL Fits up the Hopper Stoppers Brake Kit and Explains what Bump Steer is and how we can fix it in our application.
Al is deep into converting his 1968 MS55 Toyota Crown from a rear-mounted Steering box and linkage to a forward-mounted Steering Rack setup.
One of the major things to consider when modifying the steering system is Bump Steer which can cause all sorts of problems whilst on the road.
Hopper Stoppers Brake Kits are ADR Approved and are made for HEAPS of different models, Checkout their website and get in contact with the team to enquire about your car here:
hoppers.com.au
Thanks to our legendary mate Matt for his Help and Expert CAD designs and advice.
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Please note: We like to make interesting car mods and show you how we've gone about it, but we can't promise that anything we show you will work for your particular car, or that you won't harm yourself, someone else, your car or your warranty doing it. Please be safe, be responsible and unless you know what you're doing, do not fool around with very serious machinery just because you've seen us make it look so easy.

[@theskidfactory]

Hopper Stoppers Brake Kits are ADR Approved and are made for HEAPS of different models! Find a Kit HERE: hoppers.com.au

[@patverry8926]

FFS look at the welding splatter on the brand new brake rotors not hard to protect with a bit of scrap panel steel AUSSIE HACKERS!!!

[@LongPeter]

@@patverry8926 it'll be gone the first time they hit the brakes. Spatter mostly doesn't stick very firmly.

[@todd_harrison4500]

@@patverry8926 FFS, the word is "hacks" not "hackers"🤦 Either way, I doubt Al or Woody give a crap that you think they're hacks 😅

[@CruiserBrah]

Gunna be a pedant here, sorry, are they actually ADR approved or just tested? The Department of Infrastructure doesn't normally approve components like this for aftermarket use. The component approval number system is normally provided to components that are being fitted to new vehicles like lights, truck brake systems and bus chassis.

[@bedlamite42]

Next week on The Skid factory: Ackerman!

[@anguslithgow5786]

That face - when you suggest setting up the bumpenstein mk9 again on the side that's already been done :D

[@kevinbutcher995]

Hahaha well spotted a mix of wtf and oh maybe thats a good idea........

[@Danger_mouse]

Top effort Al. There's a LOT of factory cars on the road that are nowhere near that close to right. Well done 👌

[@krispykruzer]

Only turbo toyotas are built perfect

[@alexkatana]

@@krispykruzer turbo toyota by master yoda

[@pashakdescilly7517]

@@alexkatana toyodas

[@alexkatana]

Alan or Woody there's a perfect name for the Build right there Toyoda Crowned.

[@jimm9776]

Got me wanting to check my ford pinto... but then I'd have to fix it!

[@midnighteightsix6919]

Nice work boys! Steering geometry is one of the most complex aspects of vehicle dynamics, therefore it's one of the most misunderstood aspects. Even OEMs struggle to get everything perfect simply due to packaging constraints, so you've done really well to get the bumpsteer down to reasonable amounts.

[@shiftdowntv4511]

Al has got to be one of the highest quality car builders on the interwebz. Hugh wealth of knowledge, attention to detail, zero compromise and super interesting projects.

[@aaronfischer7199]

Hi Al and Woody. Perfect timing on this episode. I'm building an lc tranna and am going through the steering system to remove the factory installed bump steer. And also add electric power steer using a prius steering column and eps ecu. Please let your viewers know who you get to billet cnc the new steering arms as I would like to use them myself.

[@theskidfactory]

They will be hand milled not cnc.

[@keithmartell3971]

Awesome practical explanation guys, thank you. That weld spatter on those new disks are going to give your brakes some real grippy stopping power.

[@CruiserBrah]

Like Al, I did my apprenticeship doing wheel alignments. Holdens and shims were not too bad as there was a massive tolerance for camber and castor on them. Fords you needed to do them in a sequence: camber then castor, recheck camber because moving the castor rod used to adjust camber too. Once you got that right then you did toe...then it was all fucked up the first pot hole the driver hit (XF Falcons were the worst). By far the hardest of that era, I think anyway, was the venerable old Valiant. They had 2 camber pins on the upper arm and if the pivot point on the chassis wasn't rustednoff the camber pins used to be seized solid. As with the Falcons the camber castor adjustment was a balancing act. Al is right, the struggle is real and cars are mostly just toe and go these days.

[@StratoJohn]

That's some super knowledge and patience you've got there Al

[@matthewpickering9270]

I told my mum about it.she said good to see 2 lads living the dream.

[@HomeBuiltByJeff]

Looking good mate. I need my own Bumpmaster 80000 :D

[@christophercasale7961]

Welcome to the Skid Factory! We've got Steering Racks, Storage Racks and Rhodesian Ridgebacks!

[@larryr8492]

I started wheel alignments on a Hunter Light align, had to do run out and set up but learned a lot doing it that way. Now I do alignments at home with string and a measuring tape only because the kids with the new machines don’t understand the angles only that it’s in the “green” and OK. Always learning things, thanks!

[@theskidfactory]

Yep ours was a hunter light beam job. Had to reverse cars on to do rear alignment.

[@timdunn2387]

What a mixture; old age and treachery, coupled with youth and exuberance. When Blair told you to get on the KZbin train, did you ever conceive having a quarter of a mill subscribers? You both deserve it. Thanks for your company.

[@steveo5174]

The Dr Nick thing still cracks me up!

[@pete1973x]

Super informative guys, cheers. Loving how in-depth you're getting on this build, it's going to be a cracker.

[@GMCJay_lly]

Commenting for support

[@TheStitt]

Loving the content gents. Love all the changes to the front end. Stuff people would never see. Can tell you Hoppers sorted in the brake conversion in 2003-2004ish. A certain white wagon was the first done.

[@JamesYoung61]

That was another really interesting episode, another very informative channel is Superfast Matt, his current projects are a Honda S600 with a 180hp bike engine in it that he does track days with a 1950 Jaguar that he has Tesla swapped and a land speed bike engined project that he has completely designed from the ground up in CAD. Nice shout out to BOM.

[@demelitia]

The outtakes are gold; definitely keep adding those in. What about some outtake shorts? Exploit the algorithm!

[@jasonbirch1182]

"HI EVERYBODY" still makes me laugh every time. 😂🤣

[@danmurphy5660]

Dr Nick lives on at the skid factory

[@Mardy72]

Hi Noctor Dick!

[@kevinbutcher995]

You should mention the pivot point of the bottom suspension arm should ideally be at the same pivot point of the inner rack end. This is a common mistake and can not only affect bump steer but also cause binding in extreme cases. Center steer racks work better even though they break all the rules with pivot points but they just take up too much space. If you mentioned it in a previous vlog and I missed it then forget I mentioned it ! You should also check you are still getting tow out on turns after modifying the knuckles. Back in the day Falcon xd-xf stub axles on Crowns was common and from memory 1 ball joint needed replacing to do this ( can't really remember which one but the bottom I think ) so you got the whole Falcon brake package steering knuckles and stubs.

[@Akshun82]

Props for another episode *aligning* with my interests!

[@threesixty8154]

I always enjoy your videos guys, but this one was especially interesting. I did a rack conversion on an Argentine Falcon wagon years ago and got loads of bumpsteer, wish we had done this! By the way, I believe the Argentine-built Falcons are Australian design, including the engines. Thanks from a half Canadian/half Argentine. Cheers!

[@1ocean515]

Really impressed with the cumulative display of brain power that came up with the solutions I just witnessed. Heeps of thanks for the eye opening trip down new info lane. 👍👍

[@stevegraham3817]

They called it Radial Tuned Suspension to suit the 'modern' Radial Ply tyres when they moved from Cross Plys. I believe the main change was from positive camber under bump to negative camber. Check out some of the late 60s early 70s car chases and watch the direction of the top of the front wheels, or better still, check out the wheel angles on 1940s grand prix cars. lol

[@bradleyfelschow1270]

i work at bob jane and i can agree that they push the wheel outward to make it look way worse than it already is lmao. reason being is customers get the shits about paying for an alignment if the toe etc is only a minute bit out so they make it look worse so the customers happy. insanely good explanation of the steering geometry too, was put into quite basic terms so even those who can't quite understand complex things like that can actually grasp some sort of concept. absolutely love listening to you explain things, so educational and not one bit confusing. can't wait for next weeks vid

[@davidmccrory5604]

Quite possibly the best episode ever de- mystifying the black art of bump steer and ackerman

[@knomelbourne]

tremendous work Allen, regards, Cain

[@matthancock3430]

Great vid and great results, well done. The last shot with 4X Woody had me in stitches. GOLD!! ;-)

[@MrToastado]

Doing a rack install on my 84 rx7 from the steering linkage, this helped tremendously and I have been watching for quite sometime. Thanks guys keep up the great work!

[@jasonbirch1182]

Try to keep your tie rods the same length between pivots. The height and the distance from axle centerline is all critical. You can compensate for the mount position with the height of the outer tie rod too. I had a 85 gsl but I can't remember if it's front or rear steer. If you can mimic everything but with a rack it's the way to go.

[@dennisbailey4296]

I was really starting to get worried that you were just going to weld that back together!! Thanks so much for giving us a full blow explanation as to why you have to watch that angle so closely and that you're going to make it out of one piece right on!!!! All the best from Surrey BC Canada

[@danmurphy5660]

Awesome vid.....top marks Woody on the animations, your production skills are stepping up.

[@leeruss979]

THE BEST SHID TRACKTORY EVER UP LOADED !!!!!!!!!!! HANDS DOWN 100% AWESOME ... THANKS AL AND WOODEN AND THE DOG ( SNOOP ) GREAT WORK ..

[@havoqrules]

You can never have too many Matt's!

[@user-ih7gc7dt9l]

I love how in-depth this is. I did manual rack conversion on a Saab 900 race car and introduced a lot more rake with shimmed upper wishbones . This kind of stuff is still fascinating.

[@karlwhite5704]

awesome video fellas, always learning new stuff when watching you guys.

[@Doc_in_the_carpet_truck]

Serious episode!!!!! Not one lemon squash consumed throughout very informative and edumacational though!!!👍🍻

[@JTECH7766]

Such great knowledge I'll be needing when putting a power rack in a mk 2 Jag. Very helpful.

[@fellowship_of_the_goat]

From my observations of cutting and welding steering arms, and driving the car to see what happens (prototype 4x4 Moke, you'd love the jank engineering in it): You can get away with a fair few mm of toe in on compression, but boy howdy if it's toe out by even a mm you have problems. I found that it was easiest to get close by approximating the relationship between the height of the rack, specifically the balljoint on the rack end, the height of the inner balljoint/pivot on the LCA, and subsequently the balljoints for each on the knuckle. I didn't do mathematics, more just visualised it with my hands like I was at a rave, and got it right fairly easily. I had fun and the car hasn't crashed yet.

[@benjohnson7170]

The dark arts. It's not for mere mortals. Nice one boys!

[@ezacher4634]

Nice to see Al on his channel.

[@AnarchyEnsues]

You should be selling counterfeit beer drinking merchandise. Maybe with lemon squash

[@fendel_]

Super informative video! That is a lot of calculations and thinking to get it right. Good work Al!

[@philpritchard3442]

check bump at angle... it will be terrible around corners. couldn't see well enough in the video but rack ends need to be inline with inner pivot of the arms and they looked long. that will make bump steer blow out when turning. also scrub radius and the length of the tie rod arm will affect scrub radius, needs to be parallel with ball centers.. have done a bit of steering mods when racing back in the day.. make sure you check at steering angles NOT JUST STRAIGHT AHEAD.. keep it up boys well done with the math....

[@colster3]

Burnt fingers from doing shim adjustment on alignments for LH and LX V8 Toranas with extractors. Radial Tuned Suspension ha! Quarter deg neg camber and ona and a half degrees positive castor on pre-RTS had them handling pretty good for the era

[@RangieNZ]

Heh guys. The steering arm end, HAS TO be inboard of the main hub-pivots, in order for the for the steering to work properly. It is that difference in dimension, that makes the 'inner' wheel pivot a larger angle than the 'outer' wheel, when going around a corner. With a rear-mounted steering-rack, the two ball joints may well point to the centre of the rear axle, but moving to a front-mounted steering-rack, does not change the requirement that the tie-rod-ends NEED to be narrower than the main hub-pivots.

[@Tilpants]

So, umm, so, cracking ep! Having been through the joys of working out steering arm angles for converted tow trucks, I didn't envy the head scratching in this one.

[@mikevlnz8392]

this is why you `re great guys, love too see it, some of us asked you for this, and behold, this is just great and informative, cheers !

[@chrismatthews9328]

Great information guys. Will become very useful when I put AU front suspension and steering into an ED. Also 22:22

[@Jesse-B]

Ya cruel bastard Woody the outtakes are a um crackup.

[@paulsimmons7714]

There's a good video on bump and akerman on Fanatik builds from his shed in Canada.

[@andrew5792]

I have a jam label on my MIG handpiece that says "check gas". Glad to see it's no just me.

[@darianistead2239]

Worse on a tig lol. Cut, regrind the tungsten🤦‍♂️

[@Ryan-hf9qz]

Project binky have some real good info

[@williameisenman5538]

Wow! Al looks good in glasses (speaking from one who has worn them since her was two).

[@cynzhero62]

UMMMM LOL SOOO. Al knows what's up!. Good on ya boyz!.

[@joelmate4071]

Blows me away how much information is in alans head

[@BensDrivingVideos]

This build makes me stay motivated for mine. Mine is wayyyyyyyy more simple than this.

[@ItsFriscoBaby]

Brilliant. Working it out rather than just buying kits and bolting them on.

[@arm_luvr1002]

Impressive Al

[@Pats-Shed]

The bumpmatic 8000 will only work with the mirror in place as the wheel moves in and out relative to the vehicle centerline and since the target moves with the wheel it automatically takes this into account. Bumpsteer is a very complex problem and even the maths can sometimes fail to solve it and you have to resort to trial and error.

[@ivanszky]

u are a legend Al!

[@stevenboyes5601]

A drawing of what you changed to achieve the desired result would be handy.....

[@JayWelchy]

EASY way for someone who is interested to learn this on a basic level how caster/camber/ackermann, toe, bump steer etc works, flows and can be changed - buy an RC car, one of the buggies that people race. ALL of that is adjustable and movable, making it easier to visualize suspension movement and learn what it all does. Most of it anyhow .. my son races competitively and the kid knows and understands more about suspension and setup than most at 13 years old lol. "Dad, you should dial in more caster in your pickup .." Yup, he tossed that out there when he was 12.

[@mikeymasi]

That's great fellas reckon you could also do a follow up on how scrub radius can be affected by changing wheel offset? I've heard that can exacerbate bump steer issues

[@bensulzberger8890]

Loving the full intro 👌

[@Jack-tx2ve]

With a steering box the arm moves through an arc. A steering rack just pushes and pulls in a linear motion. This explains alot about the different designs at the the hub end.

[@SouthernCrossMotors]

That was great Al. Now I understand why my XL Falcon back in the 80s was so terrible with a mix of XB and XL front suspension 😂😂🤣🤣

[@gumshoetooheydyan8183]

MrXXXX is Paddy Fitzgerald .He was the travelling sales representative back in the day cheers

[@yowie0889]

Gerald FitzPaddy was his good mate.

[@gumshoetooheydyan8183]

Nah they where blokes from sydney

[@adman6380]

So umm, that was great , congrats on getting it that close

[@greasemonkeychris4128]

You know shits getting technical when the spectacles come out

[@jasonbirch1182]

I try to cut a score in the steering arm that runs level and straight forward and back. Then you can try to keep the angle of the hole for the tie rod end relatively in the right orientation.

[@jasonbirch1182]

Haha! Right as you are saying you can't use them. We can but don't be a dumb ass if you aren't capable of doing it correctly.

[@607CHA]

Been looking for years cant wait to see my name on the hoist

[@brendonv101]

I learnt about Ackerman angle at a young age when I was building my own go kart. I put the steering arms near on straight and wondered why it had terrible understeer. Without the correct Ackerman angle, the inner and outer wheels won't turn in sync. The inner wheel needs to turn at a sharper angle as it does a smaller turning radius then the outer. With the Ackerman out the inner will turn at a lesser angle and the car will drive like shit.

[@zyeborm]

thanks for the info mate. I was wondering about that.

[@the48thronin97]

That's actually where I learned about the importance of good steering geometry as well, I never put the time in to figure out what was wrong though

[@statementleaver8095]

London Taxi *party trick*

[@nicktaylor5281]

I always thought Radial Tuned Suspension was named as such to suit radial tyres (as opposed to cross ply)

[@sikhilux85]

My thoughts too bias tyres ran negitive castor and radials run positive castor generally

[@theskidfactory]

That's called marketing. They still had RTS badges on VN's.

[@jj-hf8jy]

I'm so keen to see the hako rip!

[@dylantavcar4869]

another great video as always Al n Woody, having heaps of bump steer issues on my r31 with s13 front suspension, might have to put some of these theories to test.

[@boriskozjan]

XF Motorsports on his channel has very good series about steering design for his ASL project car (time attack bullet).

[@Ren200Z_MotoringLife]

good stuff mate

[@lewdog9647]

Ackerman doesn't control bump steer. It controls the differential angle between the front two wheels at full lock. It can be used to increase scrub on the inside tyre to help pull the car around a corner. The optimum angle depends on the vehicle speed and corner radius you are tuning for. Bump steer is controlled by the steering linkage pivots. They need to be in line with the inboard and outboard pivots of the suspension arms.

[@biastv1234]

This is the stuff that separates the boys from the men. Awesome

[@JustTex]

i like the bumpmaster 8000 overseas name hahaha, Cheers 4 sharing some knowledge

[@3Fingrokr]

Brilliant!

[@chedhead3278]

Cheers guys, great informative episode.

[@TheMrtMts]

I’m on a same deal with my 🏎. Thanks lads!

[@michaelshannon4138]

This makes Michael happy

[@theskidfactory]

That is the main thing

[@michaelshannon4138]

@@theskidfactory :)

[@grahamparsons1070]

Amazing knowledge and explanation turbo yoda

[@festol1]

01:18 That note lol :)

[@caydecoulthard909]

Awesome video fellas loving the content and loving the crown

[@tturi2]

that Ackerman I'd just a simple trigonometry solution

[@cme2cau]

I worked in a shopping centre carpark in the late 70s. The moaning squeal on LC and LJ Torana 6s on tight lock was horrific. I reckon it was Ackerman rolling in his grave.

[@theskidfactory]

The iron lion kinga is bad for it.

[@FixTechStuff]

Al sounds 50% more intelligent with the glasses on.

[@craigjones9244]

Just when you thought you knew everything about Al,s mad skills and knowledge he then pulls another rabbit out of a hat TAADAAAAAAAH.

[@tomanycooks]

i wouldn't have the patience to do that. going to be awesome

[@geoffreyadams6236]

Good deal guys. doing the hard stuff to make it right off the bat.

[@autoconversion2410]

Good vedio Guys.. All the best

[@tomahoks]

I've seen this done somewhere….ohh yeah, project Binky in the early 80’s

[@chriskjorstad877]

I believe the XXXX mans name is "WINK ". I only know this from a bloke who had him tattooed on his back (about 25 years ago)

[@BuddyDarDarTV]

I dig the Umm supercut

[@darrylwindle5331]

on you alan, that was really good value, working that shit out is hard.....