Correcting Christianity Interview #1: Dr. Irving Finkel

Welcome to the first installment of our 'Correcting Christianity Interviews' series. In this episode, we delve into an enlightening conversation with the distinguished Dr. Irving Finkel.
Dr. Finkel, renowned for his book 'The First Ghosts', shares his insights on a spectrum of intriguing topics ranging from the Bible, ancient texts, to the evolving world of Artificial Intelligence.
About Dr. Irving Finkel:
Dr. Irving Finkel is a distinguished British historian, philologist, and author, highly respected in the sphere of ancient scripts and languages. Dr. Finkel earned his PhD in Assyriology from the University of Birmingham, leading him onto a trailblazing academic journey that has garnered international acclaim.
Presently, Dr. Finkel is an Assistant Keeper of Ancient Mesopotamian script, languages, and cultures in the Department of the Middle East at the British Museum. His ground-breaking work in Assyriology is represented by a host of insightful articles published in esteemed academic journals such as the Journal of Near Eastern Studies and the Journal of Cuneiform Studies.
In addition to his academic contributions, Dr. Finkel has proven himself a proficient writer with a unique flair for unravelling the complexities of ancient civilizations. 'The First Ghosts' is one of his most applauded works, offering readers an unprecedented exploration into the earliest known beliefs about the supernatural. His other notable books, 'The Ark Before Noah: Decoding the Story of the Flood' and 'Cuneiform', are not only scholarly masterpieces but also engaging narratives that have introduced the intricacies of ancient history to a wider audience.
Dr. Finkel's devotion to unearthing the narratives of the past and his relentless pursuit of making ancient history comprehensible to all define the uniqueness of his work. His scholarly endeavours have significantly shaped our comprehension of ancient Mesopotamian history and culture, and his captivating writings continue to inspire and enlighten readers around the globe.
We greatly appreciate your support. Thank you for tuning in and please don't forget to subscribe for more thought-provoking conversations.

[@mahadeva666]

I am not a believer and hold my own views. Great introduction and a great message. He is legendary and one of a kind to be able to hold all that knowledge, he is a character for sure.

[@vjc2270]

Dr Finkel is an international treasure - what an amazing interview. Thank you so much for posting. 🙏🤩

[@Kissafarmari]

International treasure ❤indeed! 😄

[@alainaaugust1932]

The only thing disappointing about Dr. Finkel’s presentations on the YT Archaeology Now channel is that he doesn’t upload frequently enough. So finding this on your site got me excited. He is a genius, and terribly funny besides. I’ve never found his findings and explanations to be anti-Biblical. They simply shed light on the full meaning of the words and events described. He gives context. Being familiar both with the Bible *and* with Dr. Finkel’s work produces many ah-ha moments, “Oh, that’s what that means.” Long ago a pastor told me “God uses imperfect instruments.” Even those who say they’re non-believers. Blessings.

[@Aengus42]

Irving is such a cool guy! I enjoyed your chat, thank you for posting it. I giggled at your appeasing of the deep south young earth creationists at the beginning with Prof. Finkel's crossbow reference! 😆 Oh! If you do end up in the British Museum for a cuppa give us a shout. I'm about an hour south & I'd love to "hold a camera" for you! Meeting Prof. Finkel in his natural environment would be splendid! I'll treat you to breakfast at Pellicci's on the Bethnal Green Road 😃

[@marmieRH]

Wow just subscribed from Québec, I could listen to Mr. Finkel all day 😊

[@elvisischrist]

Check out his work on the flood myth before Christianity. It’s another example of how religions have recycled concepts, like virgin births, coming back from the dead, etc. from earlier constructs.

[@rsr789]

'Concepts' aka mythology that has no basis in demonstrable reality, nor any use in the modern world.

[@elvisischrist]

@@rsr789 I'm with you. It's so obvious this whole religion thing is man made - to not figure that out is actually pretty sad.

[@rsr789]

​@@elvisischrist Agreed.

[@elvisischrist]

Just fact check the basics: like a census that forces every man to return to his ancestral home - not his actual home. A census at this time in history was not to count people, it was to count stuff (goats, sheep, cattle, etc.) so you could be taxed. Why send people somewhere where their wealth isn't !?!?!?! The concept makes no sense - plus for the fact that Roman records clearly document it never happened. Why make this up?? To get Jesus to be born in the land of David.... It's just a plot device, and no truth in it whatsoever.

[@johngibbs799]

Where is it?

[@Vikingocazar]

A conversation? In this day and age? People listening to each other despite different beliefs? Yes!!!!!

[@jamesdewane1642]

The sweetest part is the very end: When you are in London, we'll have tea.

[@whisped8145]

59:00 I remember the same building issues from my visits in Greece in the 90ies. The locals explained it as a quite pragmatic fashion: They don't have the money at hand to build the whole house at once, so they build what is currently affordable, and add further rooms and floors later when they can.

[@grahampovey8073]

Real life Dumbledore. Dr Finkel is a wonderful asset to the academic world; he makes it understandable and accessible to all!

[@catherinepoloynis]

Wonderful, fascinating and educational discussion, thank you!

[@scoon2117]

This was awesome. Next time have him give us a tour of his wonderful book collection

[@Kissafarmari]

About ghosts 38:35 Many years ago I was hich hiking through Poland. It was a summer night. I was sitting in a truck, and watching the landscape passing by, thru the window. Endless, large fields. Suddenly I saw hundreds of transparent white ghosts walking approximately one meter above the ground, they were walking away, I saw them all from behind. There were mostly families, and they were everywhere in the endles fields.

[@whisped8145]

Love the 80ies Camera/VHS-style.

[@HughONeill]

Wonderful interview, thanks for sharing, I think soon after this these have been several announcements about AI translating Cuneiform, and I’m sure an off the shelf Alpha Zero could reassemble the broken tablets once they are digitised.

[@macawism]

T🎉he da ta is all human, so we’ve got a new tool to make the study quicker and affordable….

[@alainaaugust1932]

Excavated from 1851 to 1932, the clay tablets of Ashurbanipal’s library are not yet totally translated. Left to us only because his palace and library were burned and burning bakes clay, the tablets are this man’s life work. Dr. Finkel is an astoundingly brilliant scholar who built on the findings of those who went before and has markedly added to our understanding of how to read millennia old writings.

[@johnfoster6412]

42:25 With the utmost respect to Dr Finkel, the core issue with ghosts from Science's perspective is not the issue of repeatability, but that of measurement. We possess statistical machinery that can estimate the probability of a "one-off" events, but these algorithmic devices cannot work without some kind of data, at a minimum ranked classified data, preferrably numerical data. We cannot at this time measure ghosts _or_ the subjective experience reported by witnesses.

[@Vikingocazar]

I’d like to hear more on your premise. I was never a believer until I had a ghost “run” by me in my office. I was a federal police officer with ten years on the job… trained in objective observation (obviously I’m human and we’re NEVER completely objective). No other living person in said offic… I know, it was very small, all doors and windows locked… and I roll HEAVY when doing building clearing.

[@michaelismichael4640]

I hope you get your cup of tea!!!

[@jordonhoelzeman24]

I must say, I consider this to be a sorely missed opportunity to ask Dr. Finkel about the other stories in Genesis which derive from the Sumerian myths, especially the existence of the Water (Enki) and Wind (Enlil) with God (An) at creation, the agricultural purpose of the creation of Adam in Eden, Cain and Abel as the shepherd and the farmer, etc. Also, I would have asked about the possible influence of Marduk and his serpent on the imagery of Satan as a serpent. I do appreciate you touching on the Tower of Babel though. Thank you for asking him about this, because I've been looking for the Sumerian Enoch.

[@grumpysdr6139]

Great dialogue. I was intrigued by the idea of credibility of "healers" and exorcists, and credulity of patients. Isn't the modern-day parallel our medical profession? After years of training by their authoritative elders, practitioners must be well convinced about the efficacy of their own prescriptions while patients in their helplessness (in their fear and ignorance) place their trust in the medication and procedures. (Never mind a modern tendency to suspicion and distrust.) So practitioners had a *fair* degree of self-confidence, but learning all the time as knowledge accumulated, while patients had no option and they & families blamed delay, poverty, maybe a bad practitioner, or just the unknown when treatment failed.

[@richardford9818]

We can finally see Dr. Finkle in his true form in this thumbnail. 🙌

[@15nanoseconds]

1:21 word??

[@dinomite592]

I press into clay / feel the tablet in my hand / as you read my mind

[@marmieRH]

130,000 tablets? 😮😮😮 I wish I could help 😊

[@bigbandguru]

The words of a scholar should be taken as pretty much ‘fact’ unless you can find a better source with physical backup

[@BrickHOUSEmartin]

This would show little knowledge of academia. Scholars in the same field, from the same universities, with comparable field experience, disagree all the time my friend. This is why all arguments must be in tune with reason, logic, AND scholarly consensus.

[@bigbandguru]

Talking about a ‘point in time’ backed by solid evidence. Things may change later with different evidence. There may be conflicting evidence. That is academia.

[@BrickHOUSEmartin]

@@bigbandguru gotcha gotcha misunderstood what you were saying.

[@OldSkoolUncleChris]

45:49 he is worried it might work

[@susanb4816]

Instead of bread not bombs, professor wants digs not bombs

[@Arshva]

Huh. It seems like asking "Do you believe in ghosts?" back then was like asking, "Do you believe in microbes?" nowadays

[@rsr789]

No, your comparison is utterly incorrect. You don't have to 'believe' in microbes, they demonstrably exist in reality, whether you accept their existence or not.

[@LearnThaiRapidMethod]

I can't believe I'm watching (and enjoying) a talk about the ghosts of Mesopotamia, which I never cared two hoots about! It's not uncommon to take imaginary beliefs for granted and to act out bizarre ideas matter of factly each day in one's life. The Jews don't think twice about separating "milk" & "meat" crockery and cutlery from each other, or of adhering to a kosher diet even; or of tying themselves up every morning, turning around three times, facing east, dovening and chanting their daily prayers - not to mention saying a prayer for every aspect of their lives (like the Christians with saying grace or unthinkinly accepting the sacrements or taking communion after each church service). No-one stops to think, "does this make any sense?" or "is this really necessary?" It's become habitual and ordinary, like brushing your teeth, perhaps flossing afterwards, and to repeat after a shampoo & rinse. I live in Thailand where I find it odd that just about every Thai person takes it as given that there are ghosts everywhere. Every Thai has has a "spirit house" (kind of like a doll's house on a platform) which is tended to every day (or for the not so devout, gets the occasional spring clean, but never taken down). And after every cremation, loud explosions are let off to scare away the malicious spirits. One can hear these explosions from miles away and although it's not every day, it sometimes seems that way! As for me, I have a strong, irrational *disbelief* in ghosts (and any kind of religious or spiritual phenomena) - no matter how many millions of people have truly experienced ghosts or miracles or some kind of divine communication. The evidence I have is very simple. Nearly all of us (including myself) believe in mundane facts and truisms that are blatantly nonsense. But they're so mundane, we seldom if ever question them. Sure, we question the existence of God, or whether global warming is real, or whether vaccines are really that effective. But our daily lives are filled with false beliefs that we hold very dearly and act on them. - Breakfast is the most imporant meal of the day. - Meat is an important source of protein that makes you strong and grow tall, and you should eat a lot of it if you can. - The RDA only applies to the average person, so if you're bigger than normal then you should eat more than what's "normal" and take supplements for what you're missing. (The RDA is roughly double what the "average" person requires, which therefore covers that of 97% of the population.) - We should follow the law, even if we don't agree with it. Or even if it's wrong. Policemen take this for granted "I'm just upholding the law, guv. It's not up to me to decide otherwise." - Biologically, there are only two sexes. - Everyone should work for a living. Anyone who doesn't is a parasite on society. - Sex or masturbating (and shitting) should be done in private (although pissing for men can be done discretely in public). Chinese children are encouraged to shit in public, and their pants usually have open slits at the back so that they can just go like dogs! :o - Food should be cleaned before preparing and eating to prevent illness. In fact, in general, we should make an effort to be hygienic (and odour-free) for health reasons, whereas excessive cleanliness (as in our modern world) weakens our immune systems and makes us *more* vulnerable to certain illnesses. - Nice-smelling bodies and mouths are sexy or polite or necessary for having friends and for work. This is a very modern belief (maybe 100 years). Before that, everybody reeked to high heaven and spent most of their lives (awake or asleep) scratching their sweaty, itchy skin, delousing themselves and others, chasing away rats in the bedroom, and sharing their beds with verious swarms of bed bugs. (In those days, the lack of belief in cleanliness was extreme in the other direction: surgeons caused their patients to die not by botching their operations but simply by not washing their hands or implements: you were almost certain to survive an operation if you were the first patient of the day, and almost certain to die if you were the last!) The list goes on.... And I, too, have my own ghost story - just like the lady who saw her ghostly grandfather on the lawn. It was early in the morning, pre-dawn. I was still in bed. I was visiting my aunt and uncle in Australia. My dead grandfather walked in. In fact, that's what woke me up. I reocgnised him instantly. He didn't say anything. I spoke to him, but he ignored me and walked back out again. I was really shaken - because he died a few months previously, and in South Africa, an entirely different country. It took me a while to process it, but as it was so early and everyone was still asleep, I went back to sleep and only mentioned it later at breakfast. My uncle was also perplexed and walked about the house to investigate. Upon checking out the CCTV footage, it turns out it was a burglar (with the same height and gait as my grandfather) who had been wondering around the house while everyone was asleep looking for cash or easy pickings. If this hadn't been realised at the time then I would have gone to my grave absolutely convinced that my grandfather's ghost had somehow come to say a curt farewell to me. I could also have dreamt it, of course. Dreams can sometimes be very lucid. I often think back on my memories of fairly recent experiences of things I have done... and struggle to ascertain whether they were real or the result of a very lucid dream. I sometimes do some complicated work (like filling out my tax return) and then hunt fruitlessly through my computer to find the file I saved. Only to realise that I had dreamt it all and have to do the work all over again but for real this time. These dreams are so lucid that I remember the questions that I struggled over, and looking up the facts or figures in question. Of course, I can't rely on the answers I came up with because whatever source I looked up was equally a figment of my imagination. I would still have to go check the figures, but make sure I'm awake and writing up the results for real! (The lady above most likely also had a lucid dream about her grandfather, and even of going downstairs to observe her mother having seen the ghost also. In some of my dreams, I will sometimes instruct someone to do something or inform them of something important - and then get annoyed later in real life when they haven't complied or didn't act accordingly. "But I told you the other day," I would shout at them, while they stare at me perplexed, not knowing what I'm going on about...)

[@BrickHOUSEmartin]

That’s extremely interesting!! I’ve never heard of that in Thailand!

[@brucemackinnon6707]

Finkel comes out with the silliest stuff.

[@rsr789]

You have specific examples? And you have demonstrable evidence to disprove him wrong?

[@alainaaugust1932]

He is a scholar’s scholar who is trying to use humor to lighten the subject. Like all speakers using humor sometimes he succeeds and is hilarious, sometimes not.

[@PortmanRd]

Some people believe in the silliest stuff. Take the Bible as a good example.

[@sunroad7228]

Mesopotamia is calling today humans to start reckoning, mourning and wailing what they have done to themselves - destroying all fossil fuel reserves in 300 years when they needed to keep them for 3 thousand years and more. Mesopotamia is calling today humanity to write Gilgamesh-Revisited - mourning, wailing and seeking wisdom; "In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).

[@TracyAkamine]

You might be interested in reading the book The Genesis 6 Conspiracy by Gary Wayne to learn about the reason for the flood & the fallen angel offspring from a scriptural perspective. The Old Testament speaks multiple times of lands that were full of giants which was the reason The Most High sent in the Israelites to destroy the city. If you expand your reading to the KJV Apocrypha books & the books of Enoch & Jasher (both referred to multiple times in the cannon as scripture) you will get a much expanded understanding of the events leading up to & during the flood. Gotta check which translation you’re reading tho bc some of less credible than others. The fact that many ancient cultures have a mythology of a world flood & a man named some sort of version of Noe/Noah only confirms the truth that it happened imo. It doesn’t discredit it in any way. It makes sense actually because after the flood, everyone was one nation (under Nimrod). The Tower of Babel (which was in Babylon) was where the different languages were created & people were scattered into 70 different nations. Thats where 70 different angels were assigned to rule over each nation (they rebelled & had the people worshipping them as gods). TMH kept the Hebrew Israelites for himself. See the book of Deuteronomy.

[@TracyAkamine]

This guy is operating under the assumption that the KJV isn’t a m*sonic influenced book (it is). But that makes sense since the University system is also a m*sonic system. Considering the RCC & Christian church system is m*sonic as well , his understanding of biblical stories makes sense. There are other translations besides the KJV & books that are referred to in the cannon that are available in multiple translations but the church condemns them. One has to dig deep & do a lot of cross referencing to start getting the bigger picture. No translation is perfect. Messiah warned us of the scribes. He’s also operating with the idea that the piece of land we currently have over there is the same land in the bible. Its not. The guy who founded that state said it himself. The info is out there if you do a little research in it. Question everything folks. Let no man deceive you.

[@tsadku]

Let's stop with this bronze age superstition please

[@BrickHOUSEmartin]

Brainrot comment

[@tsadku]

@@BrickHOUSEmartin mister Finkel is amazing but Christianity is not.

[@BrickHOUSEmartin]

@@tsadku cry more