Cosmere Magic ft. Jake Bishop | WAT 5-6 | Lost in Roshar Ep. 52

[@LostinDiscovery]

A reminder to please check spoiler tags on the timestamps provided in case you're not caught up on the Cosmere!

[@mcneilmn]

Can't if you watch during the premiere

[@LostinDiscovery]

Timestamps are on the video footage for that reason or you have the option to hit up Spotify where it’s uploaded at the same time.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

You guys should read the back of the book text that can be found online it tells us A LOT about what characters are doing in this book.

[@dylanmeldrum6444]

The scene with Kaladin picking up the spear for the first time was the first thing that jumped to my mind once we learned that the wind was it's own entity.

[@madalynnr9940]

Guys the Knight of wind and Truth is Renarin. He's a bridge 4 squire and a truth watcher

[@quasibrodo923]

I think the epigraphs might be from jasnah. I think “I heard the wind as a child” might make some people think of Szeth or kaladin, but there’s passing but repeated mention of some “sickness” jasnah had as a child. Maybe she was hearing the wind and everyone else around her thought she was mad

[@seinmare]

And it must be a woman or a man that learned to read (epigraph of chapter 4 "I have read"). Putting all the clues together I also think, it's Jasnah - for now.

[@michaelvaivada6143]

Adalin is doing something. He is the beginning to freeing the deadeyes. Showing they can be saved as well.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Yeah the back of the box text says he's on a solo mission in AZIMIR which means when might get a lift/adolin buddy chapters

[@trompinson636]

Most Sane character is def that one Ardent with the romance novela

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Have you guys seen the epigraph talking about the gods of spren, stone and wind. Literally confirming the stones are a god theory

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Also this might mean the unmade BAM was the preshard god of spren on roshar and that's why she could grant forms and her binding broke the spren

[@mcspazatron240]

which epigraph?

[@thebladeoflight]

out of all the cosmere mispronounciations I've ever heard, ferRUchemy has got to be the wildest one yet.

[@mcspazatron240]

the "Urethru" pronunciation is just 1 letter away from Urethra

[@epee11c]

The way the stormlight heals you is by trying to keep you as close to your ideal version of yourself as possible. That's why Kaladin's brands don't heal for so long. The not having to breathe thing is just part of the same deal. Your perfect self is one who has all the O2 you need. I would be interested to know whether allomantic gold would've healed Kaladin's Brands and whether they would've come back if he then got ahold of stormlight.

[@b3n835]

Hey Jake Graphic Audio White Sands is gas

[@lordofdoinks3940]

I liked the audio version of white sand I can’t wait for the new version though

[@CodyTaylor115]

We know sigzil has bonded both an honor spren and a high spren so he is a knight of wind and truth

[@JohnJohnson-wm7it]

What do skybreakers have to do with Truth?

[@BobSmith-ci9mv]

They uphold "the law". That's what their ideals are about.

[@danielcarty6057]

👉

[@Wordiestpandora]

"He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!"

[@JohnJohnson-wm7it]

If theres a "composite order" by having 2 spren to be a "knight of wind and truth", wouldnt it be more likely a combination of windrunner and either truthwatcher or lightweaver? Those are the 2 orders who are concerned with Truth. Skybreakers are concerned with Law.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

I think we will see Szeths fifth oath be of Truth, Because his entire arc was being bound as "Truthless" of shinovar, but he wasnt, he knew the radiants were back in truth. So its the natural conclusion of his crusade.

[@BobSmith-ci9mv]

Okay, so I might be a little off but here are skme characters that could maybe be more sane than Adolin: Pattern Timbre Yalb? Chiri chiri The cremlings Hesina Oroden Phendorana Rock Syl Maybe some others Note: A person can have trauma and still be sane. How that trauma affects them is what matters.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Pattern Hell no, Dude jumped into another world and bonded a woman who will kill him. Timbre Bonded Venli, which is insane. Syl has all kinds of baggage from her past, Some of these choices arent even people lol. Rock is i think the only real contender, dude is solid as a mountain.

[@BobSmith-ci9mv]

Yeah, you're probably right, I just wanted to have more than one example and didnt want to be on the Coppermind for 5 hours

[@kassadingdong]

there should be a Lost in Roshar/Discovery discord channel open to the public!!! that would be incredible

[@moncala7787]

The one ring is a weird example to bring up as hard magic. As the way it affects it's wearer varies between people. Its a fairly soft magic. The way I understand it the ring amplifies its wielder's most advantageous traits. Which in the case of the Hobbits is remaining unnoticed. But if Gandalf, Aragorn, Galdriel or Boromir were to put on the ring they would likely not turn invisible, unless it was especially convenient. Boromir might grow much stronger physically, be swifter and more charismatic. Gandalf would see his spells empowered significantly and his sway over mortals would be greater. We never see any of this directly on page because Tolkien wasn't interested in telling a story about the ring's magic, he just wanted one involving its temptations.

[@juanperret7044]

I think Adolin is a bit of a red herring for the champion. My take is Renarin is the champion trying to get himself killed but Dalinar can't kill him and views him as a suckling babe because it's his son

[@GiladZinman]

I did the graphic audio version of White Sand and liked it more than Warbreaker and Elantris so if that's strong enough of a revelation then there you go (also it already has some relevance in the pre release chapters for wind and truth and there was a reference to it in RoW so is somewhat Comsmere relevant if you want to pick up on every detail)

[@gregpetrirena]

would it not make sense for kaladin to be wind and shallan to be truth instead of szeth? they are kinda the audience surrogates

[@nyaatama8529]

The thing I noticed weekly, even before the last chapters, they seem to have taken Kaladin out of the war and he feels as if he had discarded the spear for the scalpel of the mind, I think it is just saying that Kal will rejoin the battle at the end of the book when taking up Urithiru

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

@@nyaatama8529 guess what kaladins chapter header is someone holding a normal spear with the standard of dalinar, crown and tower all. What I think this is foreshadowing is kaladin LOSING syl as a slyspear and picking up an old familiar friend to fight the last battle

[@nyaatama8529]

@passdoutcouchpotatos my thought is similar, but may come before or after, I am not fully sure what it is, but I think Syl is going to implement something she is planning and it will sever the bond she has with Kaladin.

[@ksauce7]

I can’t believe you guys went so deep on the mechanics and rules of cosmere magic and didn’t even bring up the rpg.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Also the reference in this chapter to a fourth oath level stoneward is almost assuredly a reference to the canon stonewalkers adventure in the rpg

[@oswinhull4203]

I always thought that the knights of wind and truth is referring to this new era of the knights radiant. As far as who is writing the epigraphs, I imagine it is some future wind runner who was commissioned to write the history of this new order of radiants. Kal/Sig talk about having someone write the story of bridge four in oathbringer but Lyn doesn't want to do it and there are 1000 other things going on at the time. I don't think truth only refers to Szeth. All of the OG members in Urithiru at the end of WoR have some association with wind and truth. Renarin is a truthwatcher. Dalinar bonds the stormfather. Szeth and Kalidan have a battle over who owns the sky. Shallans progression is all about telling and finding out truths. Basically all the main characters driving the plot are the knights of wind and truth.

[@ruciepianogirl5]

I actually enjoyed White Sand! I would recommend the graphic audio book

[@orcishdad8075]

I've been assuming the contest would be a duel, but now I'm questioning that. What if the competition is a series of bets? Odium uses his foresight, and Dalinar will use his faith in those around him. That way, the contest could start in 10 days, but might last weeks.

[@brodyot94]

What if using a soul caster uses the person wielding it's life light, and that's why their bodies fade. My extra stretch is that the energy taken from soul casting is what initially gave spren human thought.

[@seinmare]

Relistening to Stormlight and reading Oathbringer atm. While listening to your podcast I had an idea: you where talking about the nine Honorblades in Shinovar. And I was thinking: there is the talk of the champion (a dark creature with red eyes and 9 shadows). Are the 9 shadows the Honorblades?

[@Rhedak]

Three of the 16 ruled but now the broken one reigns... So the 3 shards will leave or combine into one?

[@Quarter_Lucid]

Words of Radiance chapter 52, page 613 in the paperback. Kaladin has an interesting conversation with Syl that has a new interpretation . I thought this may be of interest since I just read it during my re-read and it helps narrow down perspectives for these epigraphs.

[@ferminballesteros7462]

Explain

[@Rhedak]

I think it is all the radiants writing the book together.

[@kairi99roxas]

46:28 Jake is actually totally wrong about the One Ring having hard magic rules! It works differently when different people wear it because it enhances their abilities or something like that

[@jakebishop7822]

So it got expanded upon when Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings, but when he originally wrote the Hobbit it was just a magic ring that turns people invisible. That's why famously there is a Hobbit rewrite which is the version we all read now, where he retconned the magic ring in the Hobbit into being The One Ring.

[@aarong9128]

Sigil

[@BenHallahan]

Drives me nuts. Holding my tongue.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

The broken one reigns baby KING kaladin in this book

[@wobblyboots5814]

Guys! I’m rereading WOK and I need to know why we don’t Talk about Maps death rattle or any other rattle that is collected firsthand from our POV characters!

[@LostinDiscovery]

I believe we did cover that on our TWOK re-read!

[@kairi99roxas]

I read white sand, it was decent, the ending is one of his weaker ones, but the setting and a bunch of the characters are cool

[@dayla_arnold]

Hey just letting you know... I am a Spotify listener usually but the episode always go live first... I just want to listen but I've been waiting for your reaction to chapter 6 for the last week. So I'm here....

[@LostinDiscovery]

Oh! I must’ve scheduled it incorrectly. I usually have it timed to go live at the same time. Will fix it now.

[@dayla_arnold]

@@LostinDiscovery thank you. I totally understand if this happens every once in a while because technology sucks. Also, the podcast is the highlight of my week.

[@prestonyardley3255]

First after Mr. Cremling

[@seinmare]

And also the epigraph of chapter four says "I have read" so it must be a woman or a man that learned to read.

[@juanperret7044]

Electrum compounder == mamba mentality == cosmere john wick

[@lordofdoinks3940]

How did you guys forget that sureblood is dead shame on you

[@curtiswfranks]

"The Cleansing of Shinovar" sounds like ethnic cleansing to me. It sounds like it will not be pleasant.

[@SnakeAndTurtleQigong]

🦀🦀🦀 Ummm, I liked White Sands

[@johnabell861]

I’ll say white sand is good, if you’re high and really want to about Khrissala

[@darcy7257]

Glad to see someone who actually had a proper Adolin take. “Adolin will become Odium’s champion” “Why” “Oh remember when he killed Sadeas” ?????? YEAH I REMEMBER. YOU MEAN THE GUY THAT INTENTIONALLY TRIED TO KILL THEM AS A POWER PLAY, THE GUY WHO IN THAT CONVERSATION WITH ADOLIN WAS EXPLICITLY THREATENING THEM??? I can’t stress enough how HAPPY I am that the Adolin killed Sadeas subplot was not a bigger deal than it was in the books so far. I’m also glad Sadeas died on a meta level as well. Couldn’t think of anything more boring than oathbringer having everyone at the tower trying to figure out what to do with Alethkar and the fused and odium meanwhile having Sadeas throwing weird jabs the entire time. Okay dude we got bigger deals than you right now. When dalinar said in oathbringer that Sadeas would have been useful can we at least all agree that Dalinar was absolutely incorrect there? Ofc Sadeas would have been causing problems the entire time. He would have Easily been manipulated to join Odium, we know he just wants constant war and to fight people, he doesn’t care who.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

To be fair, his handling of the sadeas situation led to the entire Battle of Theylan field. There is a good chance none of the embittered soldiers would have turned on them if not for Dalinars actions

[@darcy7257]

@@passdoutcouchpotatos I mean even if I granted you that, was the thaylen field situation a bad thing? Seems like a complete and utter victory. Dalinar rejects Odium and swears the 3rd ideal, accessing portable perpendicularities, the thrill is captured, Szeth swears himself to Dalinar, Jasnah refuses to kill Renarin, giving him the context to be more forthcoming with what he can do.

[@sowercookie]

Putting this here for posterity when I'm either right or spectacularly wrong: Adolin bonds BAM.

[@gabrielasepulveda3903]

Omgoodness I HATE jake!!! He's so annoying!! I want Jimmy!!