The Most Famous Gospel Not In The Bible - What Is The Gospel of Thomas?

[@CosmicSkeptic]

Try Shortform today -- the first 100 sign ups get a 20% discount: www.shortform.com/oconnor

[@Hayhay_notthechicken]

😊

[@JoeMacIntyre-sw9gl]

Pleased this post!

[@winstonshipman8734]

@winstonshipman8734 I notice something very important you are not mentioning !!!! The sayings of Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas do NOT contain the Jew hatred the gospels contain. And they do not even attack the Pharisees or other Jewish groups. He only sees the Pharisees as misguided . He also criticizes Matthew . The Gospel writer. So the Jew Hatred was no doubt the creation of Matthew and not the thoughts of Jesus. I am SHOCKED every Christian scholar did not pick this up right away !!!

[@jimlewis1332]

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end shall come. The Gospel of Thomas is the gospel of the kingdom that Matthew is talking about and only has to do with the people who go through the book of Revelation. Christ even describes the making of the new one right off of the shell we’re in while we are alive and that’s why Jesus said whoever understands the explanation of these words will not taste death. These words are described as the Sayings of Jesus now go to Revelation 20:9 blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb,These are the true sayings of God

[@rawan3435]

49:39 let me explain this question Mr Alex. Jesus said "I'm not your master" he means to say "I'm your God or may be I'm the creator or may be I'm he means to say God is the master. There's is no problem in that... Note 👉 : And when he said after that if i tell you who i am you will stone me he means if he says that he is God like or someone equal to God who sits next to God. I hope you got the point.

[@ReligionForBreakfast]

Thanks so much for the invite! Loved the conversation.

[@LordSlag]

I was already subbed to this guy; can confirm: Is an EXCELLENT Channel.

[@nathanbell6962]

What's the ankh about? It's a symbol of a dead God

[@John-tc3ln]

​@@nathanbell6962god's don't die! ...

[@JacquesduPlessis11]

@@nathanbell6962 Dead you say!?! And here I thought it was the key to life...

[@someromantic754]

I religiously watched his channel at 14 year old. Learned almost everything I know about gnostic gospel thanks to him. Great to see him getting some nice attention.

[@hollandershomestead4481]

This is the kind of material I could listen to every day. Calm conversations that elevate the discourse.

[@mmongiello722]

Dr. Ammon hillman has the most accurate info on these greek first stories.

[@justinh.6683]

​@@mmongiello722so, I typed in dr. Ammon hilman and my search result was immediately an entire page of ammon debunked, exposed, and outrageous claims. YIKES 😬 Stick around buddy. Alex may not always be the most entertaining, but if you truly want the most accurate information, you should also know its usually not the most sensational.

[@Gypsyalchemy333]

​@@mmongiello722 if only he would speak like a normal human " of God" he becomes insufferable to listen to after 5 minutes

[@thequeenundisputed]

I've watched this video, your video with Elaine Pagels and with Dr. Justin Sledge from Esoterica all back to back and they've all been really, really great stuff! I'm super interested in looking at religion and in particular Christianity from a scholarly historical perspective, but a lot of the content that offers that can be quite dense and difficult to watch and follow. For example, while I love Esoterica, sometimes the content can be a bit difficult to watch if it's on a topic I'm not already intimately familiar with, but your video with Dr. Sledge did a great job of sort of weaving his knowledge into a narrative that's more digestible and informative from someone without that scholarly background. I felt the same for this video and your video with Elaine Pagels. I've been aware of your channel for quite some time and have always watched your videos here and there, but this recent content featuring experts in the field has been an absolute delight to listen to and it really feels to me like you've found a niche here that no one else on youtube is doing, so I hope you continue down this path. Please keep up the fantastic work, and I'll be here to eagerly consume the fruits of your labors!

[@Atmyownp.a.c.e]

I agree!! 🎉🎉🎉

[@Casmige]

My favourite: “If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. - v70”

[@James-ll3jb]

Jesus as Proto-Freud. Cute😊

[@taniacummings9207]

Better out than in, then. That is the way with grief and heartache, disease from toxins, laughter, sneezes, breaking wind, and so on. Fasting can induce meditation and introspection which can bring up aspects of personality we may be ashamed of or past actions we regret and we can examine them, come to terms with them, ask forgiveness, resolve to make amends etc. This was how I interpreted it. W

[@markhathaway9456]

@@James-ll3jb If the "in" is just our "subconscious mind" and the advice was just the greatest Wisdom of that for those days, then perhaps. But, if the "in" is "spirit" or "connection to God" or something more like that, then it was important and hard to explain and hard to grasp. If you recall, the people back then weren't very educated or worldly.

[@James-ll3jb]

@@markhathaway9456 Jung thought the two synonymous, the archetypes of the collective unconscious evidence for God.

[@netghost07]

When I read this, I immediately think of two things C.G. Jung suggests in his works. Firstly, the work with the shadow self. Everything suppressed inside you will at some point explode when you do not shine the light of conscious awareness onto it. Secondly, in a foreword to a hindu book he helped to translate, he ponders what good living consists of. He says, accept the challenges life puts in front of you and express the will of your intuition. In other words, engage with the outside world and bring out what is within you (intuition).

[@KingOdysseus]

To me “Be passers by…” simply means, witness the world but do not become attached to it. It makes sense when you contrast it to the parable of the merchants. It’s very clear.

[@taniacummings9207]

That's how I saw it. Be in the world but not of it. Similar to just witnessing thoughts and letting them go, especially during prayer or meditation, instead of entering the mental rabbit hole.

[@markhathaway9456]

That seems very similar to the Taoist or Buddhist view of "not trying".

[@paulhaanen4718]

@@markhathaway9456Interesting! The more the Jesus Movement was called “The Way”

[@Stoneworks]

Two of my fav religion youtubers! This will be a fantastic watch

[@daatrox7230]

yo didnt think to see you here

[@tonylipsmire5918]

@@MichaelRafonehe definitely doesn’t attack anyone’s faith, but religious people do like resorting to that complaint when they can’t explain their irrational beliefs and become frustrated

[@rebelresource]

@@MichaelRafoneAlex o Connor isn’t cringe so he doesn’t “attack” people like r/atheism

[@Contagious93812]

@@MichaelRafone I prefer learning about religion from non-religious scholars. For instance who would you rather listen to when learning about Islam? Some Muslim scholar who's gonna preach Islam to you or some non-religious scholar such as Joshua Little? I apply the same standard to Christianity.

[@Stoneworks]

@@MichaelRafone While I think he *is* ultimately an atheist youtuber, Alex O'Connor's style is much more understanding, exploratory, and academic than many other atheist youtubers. He studied theology in order to really understand Christian philosophy, and in many podcasts he argues against atheist ethics and epistimology from a Christian perspective. This channel is certainly one of the most MATURE atheist channels out there, alongside Genetically Modified Skeptic and Bart Ehrman's podcast.

[@alexdenton6586]

Frankly, I don't understand why you don't invite Jesus to your podcast; it would settle all these questions once and for all.

[@ishantdahiya5748]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@mikeyC79]

If only...it would settle a lot of things

[@Michael-Archonaeus]

Unfortunately Jesus killed himself a few months ago, so we won't be hearing much from him, the news report is at video id T_G4mnFeh5s RIP Jesus.

[@nathanbell6962]

Jesus would most probably be cool about it, he was a person who is open to discussion

[@xXxXKusKusXxXx]

How I wish

[@dankymatters838]

Jesus having a twin would make it ridiculously easy for them to fake the resurrection. That's the first place my mind went, rather than the virgin birth.

[@thomashugus5686]

Your right ! One step ahead of me!😊

[@andy_olive]

pretty easy in 33 ce to get rid of the evidence I reckon

[@Iamtidal]

They didn't even need to fake anything. Just wait 30+ years and write a story

[@onebigd313]

​@kylebalmer3396so what

[@infinitesyncstudios4026]

@kylebalmer3396that’s the story in Acts which may have never happened

[@mikewalker4998]

The depth if your combined insights and speculation is most satisfying and impressive and I thank you both for this discussion.

[@aguspuig6615]

Thats an awsome 'stache sir

[@glenjennett]

The thing I find most fascinating is that I can relate to so much of the Gospel of Thomas in the way that I've gained understandings very much like what the gospel says without ever having read the gospel or hearing about it before now.I feel like many of the sayings in the gospel could have been written by myself as I have written very similar things in my own journal and there is such striking similarity that it is both strange and comforting. I am not saying that I am divinely inspired, but much of what I have come to understand about things I feel comes from my true self which has a direct connection to the Source of all there is. I have seen what is beyond this physical existence and I have known my true self all my life. I can see and feel connections to everything and everyone and I understand more about the Universe than I am able to articulate in a way that others would believe me or understand the way that I do. Thank you for sharing this video and the content to help others understand things that I have gained understanding of. Alex, I hope some day to be able to meet you and have a discussion with you about this and other topics of interest, but at least I am able to watch your videos and I hope you will continue to enrich the lives of your viewers for years to come.

[@hardywatkins7737]

Yeah, i think for instance Andrew was giving a little too much credence to Plato as being the origin of some of these ideas whereas i know that people are quite cabable of coming up with such understanding on their own.

[@glenjennett]

@@hardywatkins7737 I agree. I am someone who has always been at ease with allowing my mind to flow freely and exploring realizations about different things and finding fascination with even the most mundane things. I have always been at peace with my mind and comforted by what it shows me. I have asked my mind for understanding and it has granted me clarity about so many things and I have in my own way come to the ultimate realization of the meaning of life and how all of us truly matter in this world. I believe that we all have the ability to gain understanding if we allow ourselves to accept our minds as being there to guide us in ways that we may not even realize. With acceptance we are able to see connections and gain understanding that we are all capable of finding that understanding. I hope that makes sense.

[@pierrelabounty9917]

I wouldn't get understanding of Christ from this gospel. You get the understand ing of the person who wrote it without any evidence of the Apostle Thomas actually having wrote it. It informs only about teachings outside or along side the actual writings of the new testament.

[@WickedIndigo]

@@hardywatkins7737forgive me if I’m completely missing the mark on this one, but the ideas of an all encompassing God that is both within us and without us seems to be a very ancient idea. I read the Bhagavad Gita recently and that’s a very central message to that text, which is far older than the gospel of Thomas is. I haven’t finished this podcast so idk if they were claiming that that specific idea originated with Plato. But if that’s the claim then I’d like to think that’s wrong. But idk, I’m just a dude on the internet that likes to learn about these things. What do I know?🤷‍♂️😂

[@justinh.6683]

The idea ai heard being ascribed to Plato was man and woman being created as 1 then seperated and the path to return to heaven being intrensic with the path of reuniting the 2 into 1. I say that broadly. Some of the more specific language used or important context provided in the video may be left out because Im just recalling from memory and am not a scholar.

[@SarahGreatBooks]

Thanks for banging out so much amazing content Alex

[@MissAynneK]

This was such an interesting discussion! I look forward to more discussions like this

[@joannware6228]

"You are rewarded not according to your work or your time but according to the measure of your love." - St. Catherine of Siena

[@JohnSmith-l7c]

Bull! I never believed people who would lie to themselves. 😮

[@joannware6228]

@@JohnSmith-l7c Anyone Who Says He Doesn't Lie To Himself Is Lying To Himself. “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9

[@timwheeler8523]

"And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make"

[@joannware6228]

@@timwheeler8523 "All You Need Is Love"

[@massimogiachelli7642]

What a pure plesure to hear perfect English, both fluent and distinctively clear!

[@Moley1Moleo]

00:48 I appreciate the edit to ~pan out to both of you, to show Alex's absolutely massive grin at the notion of what he's about to hear.

[@aarondavis8943]

I've not come across a host on youtube as knowledgeable as Alex. He can ask such well informed questions. It's pretty astounding. Great guest, by the way. Fascinating stuff.

[@WildVoltorb]

You should follow him on religion for breakfast. It's this kind of topic all the time

[@J2daMFnR]

Thank you for insightfully engaging with the material

[@juancho71]

Alex I have to tell you that I really appreciate your work here!!! It was a great experience all the way through. And I must say that you were on point, it was a delight to watch. Thanks again man.

[@AutisticThinker]

I'd love to see what the Vatican has buried in their vaults, related to the historical start of Christianity.

[@ModernBishdo]

Yeah but it doesn't go back far enough the secrets they have you don't want to know about

[@carliswagmalip]

​@@ModernBishdoplease tell me.

[@chuckyoneill9029]

​@carliswagmalip he's knows as much as you. Nothing

[@judeb6592]

What’s to know? Constantine assembled prominent religious leaders of time, decided which writings make up Bible- rejected everything else that was threat to their power and control.

[@mmongiello722]

We still have the greek manuscript s that predate the Vatican. Pual reviewed greek texts.

[@forge5825]

"i am you" is a very good thought for what was said in the 3 words. What also came to mind for me was "Om tat sat" from hinduism which can be interpreted as "God alone is reality" which I can take from that: God is everything, including us. Every component of all existence, both finite and infinite is composed from the essence of God. Just a thought

[@kamaurahamukti5919]

may I offer listening to the audio book here on KZbin by Ramana Maharshi "be as you are"

[@georgetravers9333]

May I offer "I am you" is contrite and these sayings should be treated as koans? 13: "Jesus said to his disciples: “Compare me, and tell me whom I am like.” (2) Simon Peter said to him: “You are like a just messenger.” (3) Matthew said to him: “You are like an (especially) wise philosopher.” (4) Thomas said to him: “Teacher, my mouth cannot bear at all to say whom you are like.” Righteousness Reason Rules Non of these enter the kingdom of heaven. If you tell them this, their resentment will burn them up.

[@stephaniesmith5326]

For me God is a Divine Principle a Guiding Principle and The Creator Of All. Without God there will be no All. The Trinity teaches us the Golden Rules and how to Be. Symbolism runs through out Religious faiths. To be reborn into a faith that is centered on The Golden Rules and 10 Commandments, is pure. To be alive in the light of faith or to be covered in sin, darkness and death is the choice. Words and the ability share them, something that no other known being on Earth has the ability to do. Look at us and how different we are. No other known Being on Earth can Sing the Word do Mathematics or Build the way we do! We were made a little less than Angels. We are made in The Image Of God. Holy Spirit is the Spirit Of Truth Within. To live Goldly lives is to admonish Sinful Ways.

[@georgetravers9333]

@@stephaniesmith5326 Our brain has three functions: executive, mammalian and reptilian. Living springs from within. Or have God, Holy Spirit and Jesus take over the place of you - to hunger for the mirror-image dangled in front of you. Or become inverted to the pride of the Islam (Father), Communism (Holy Spirit) and Sexual Perverts (Son). White angel or dark angel. Both in a battle to claim you are lower than them, to distract a mind into hypnotize. Their Priest of Good or Evil, Beauty or Ugliness, will come to consume you.

[@georgetravers9333]

Blasphemy is a hate crime. A hate crime is when you offend beliefs. Offending the wrong. A right person is not offended because they know the truth. Muhammadans are offended by their Truth is not truth but a submission of lies. Socialist are offended by their Love that not love but the comfort of envy. Sexuals are offended by their Identity that is not identity but hiding in safe spaces. Pride. And when they curse the normal, they curse themselves.

[@nikibankov1218]

I've been waiting for this kind of material for quite some time

[@OTPpride]

You could just research it instead of waiting

[@nikibankov1218]

Ok smartass ​@@OTPpride

[@TheRealFastRabbit]

@@OTPpride Consider practicing active kindness, if you are a seeker, or not, I think it can help.

[@WickedIndigo]

@@OTPpridewhile I can agree with what you’re saying, I do think studying these things on your own is valuable, it’s not always an option for people. Whether it be time constraints or maybe a lack of confidence in your own ability to decipher and get the right messages from these texts, I can understand why many would prefer to have podcasts such as these to help them along their way. I’m too obsessed and interested in too many things to hunker down and really get deep into this stuff, plus I have a job and social obligations to fill. So it’s nice to have a podcast like this🤷‍♂️

[@sivalovesyoutube9373]

I'm currently living close to St. Thomas Mount (a.k.a Parangimalai) where St. Thomas allegedly got killed (I can see the mountain from my house rooftop). Its fascinating as a local how this event happening thousands of miles across being crucial to Christian cannon.. There are some reports on how his death might have caused but here locally, the story is that he was killed by a bunch of bandits uphill for his belonging.. People in the west say he got decapitated (Syrian tradition because he brought bunch of Syrian Christians to South India) or stoned both of which are not possible because stoning someone to death is not a common practice here and there is no alleged action by St. Thomas which would result in his decapitation and there is no evidence for proper trial that happened on him either. One other story which I recently heard is that he got impaled by spears and the spear tips are preserved, which I never heard it till now so its worth noting as well. You can sill find his remains in a tomb in a church called "San Thome" which is relatively close. Just to add some info for the audience.. Edit: Added the spear line

[@BeautyInYOU583]

Thank you for this note

[@redman9174]

I think st Thomas remains are in Italy

[@Sputnikcosmonot]

His native aramaic name would be Thoma without an s so the name of the church is pretty much spot on.

[@dignityvisionarycwnlatz]

❤

[@jonnylawless6797]

There’s a mountain on the Sinai Peninsula called Hashem El Tarif, and it is probably the true biblical Mount Sinai that Moses climbed to receive the Commandments. It’s marked by open air rock sanctuaries and there’s a makeshift sacrificial altar on the top of the mountain. Also the name Hashem comes from Hebrew Ha Shem, “The Name”, something Jews call God instead of YHWH.

[@ganjjabarsmedium2347]

Been watching Religion for Breakfast for years, awesome to see this collaboration!

[@amberalexander2741]

I am so thankful I came across your work Alex. Continue with your fabulous teachings, examination and intriguing dialogue with such brilliant guests.

[@BJamJam]

uploaded in perfect time--thanks Alex!

[@nietzschescodes]

I really enjoyed that episode. Can't wait to watch all the series on those gospels.

[@badhrulislam3008]

Keep these coming Alex. I would dearly love one how much the gospels are affected by Paul. I've got some partial answers but can't seem to find a lengthy answer.

[@00yahoocomseank]

So, thank you. In the beginning when you describe gnostic gospels and then ask like three questions, it is exactly what I wanted to know at that time. Thank you for explaining and asking such good questions.

[@garywait3231]

Extremely refreshing to hear these two able scholars discuss this Gospel so rationally and respectfully : no wonder they are my favorite commentators on religious matters.

[@Neceros]

🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:00 *📜 The Gospel of Thomas is a non-canonical early gospel discovered in the Nag Hammadi library.* 00:54 *🗣️ The Gospel of Thomas consists of 114 sayings attributed to Jesus, focusing on hidden knowledge.* 02:45 *🤔 The term "Gnostic Gospel" may be a misnomer for the Gospel of Thomas, as it doesn't contain typical Gnostic themes.* 04:46 *🏺 The Gospel of Thomas was discovered in 1945 in Egypt, written in Coptic, but fragments were known earlier.* 06:52 *🌍 The text likely originated in Syria and was widely circulated in the Christian world.* 08:14 *📅 Scholars date the compilation of the Gospel of Thomas to the early 2nd century, with some parts possibly dating to the 1st century.* 10:34 *👥 "Thomas" (Aramaic) and "Didymus" (Greek) both mean "twin," possibly referring to the apostle Thomas.* 12:53 *👬 Some early Christians believed Thomas was the twin brother of Jesus, literally or spiritually.* 17:29 *🔄 The concept of Thomas as Jesus' twin challenges traditional doctrines like the virgin birth, reflecting diverse early Christian beliefs.* 20:28 *🧠 In some texts, Thomas is portrayed as Jesus' spiritual twin, sharing deep wisdom and knowledge.* 22:44 *🗣️ Early Christian texts often show evidence of disputes between different groups and interpretations.* 23:52 *📖 The Gospel of Thomas portrays other apostles, especially Peter, as less knowledgeable compared to Thomas.* 25:32 *🤔 The "doubting Thomas" story in John's Gospel raises questions about the physicality of Jesus' resurrection.* 27:20 *📝 Early Christian texts often expanded on minor characters, similar to modern fan fiction.* 29:54 *🔑 The Gospel of Thomas emphasizes knowledge and self-understanding as key to salvation, rather than Jesus' actions.* 31:03 *🌍 The Gospel of Thomas rejects apocalyptic ideas present in other New Testament texts.* 33:50 *🔄 The text may represent a reinterpretation of prophecies to deal with their apparent failure to materialize.* 36:38 *🧠 While not strictly "Gnostic," the Gospel of Thomas strongly emphasizes mysticism and salvation through knowledge.* 39:34 *🏛️ The text shows influence from Platonic ideas about pre-existent souls and divine knowledge.* 42:46 *👥 The Gospel of Thomas presents a "bifurcated anthropology," suggesting humans have both a material and a divine spiritual self.* 44:24 *🏛️ The Gospel of Thomas reflects Platonic ideas of divine spirits trapped in physical bodies.* 45:48 *🖼️ Orthodox Christians might interpret the text's emphasis on being "created in God's image" differently from Gnostic interpretations.* 48:03 *🗝️ Saying 13 in the Gospel of Thomas suggests Jesus shared secret knowledge with Thomas, possibly implying a special relationship.* 50:50 *🔄 The text may suggest that becoming like Jesus or even becoming Christ is possible for believers.* 53:49 *🍷 Saying 108 implies a deep spiritual connection or identification between Jesus and his followers.* 56:23 *📜 Saying 52 may be interpreted as downplaying the importance of Old Testament prophets compared to Jesus.* 58:29 *🙏 Saying 14 seems to contradict traditional religious practices, emphasizing internal purity over external actions.* 59:50 *💰 The Gospel contains conflicting messages about asceticism and wealth.* 01:01:56 *💼 Saying 64 may be criticizing the busyness of commerce that prevents spiritual prioritization.* 01:04:56 *🚶 The cryptic saying "be passers-by" (Saying 42) may relate to the idea of not belonging to this world.* 01:06:49 *🌟 The Gospel of Thomas often refers to the Holy Spirit as a female figure, differing from traditional Christian theology.* 01:07:33 *🔄 Many sayings in the Gospel emphasize unity and bringing opposites together.* 01:09:42 *👥 The text promotes the idea of reunifying one's material self with their "true" heavenly self.* 01:11:03 *🏛️ The Gospel draws on Plato's Symposium, particularly the myth of primordial androgynous beings.* 01:12:52 *📖 Some early Christian texts, like the Gospel of Philip, interpret the separation of sexes as part of humanity's fall.* 01:15:26 *♀️ Saying 114, about making Mary "male," has been interpreted both as promoting gender equality and as being sexist.* 01:18:25 *🔀 The Gospel emphasizes the concept of reintegration, either to an androgynous state or to a male state.* 01:20:34 *🌍 The text's disparagement of the material world may have contributed to its exclusion from the biblical canon.* 01:21:40 *🧘 The Gospel of Thomas can be seen as representing a form of early Christian mysticism.* 01:22:23 *🤔 Some themes in the Gospel of Thomas are not entirely incompatible with early Christian orthodoxy.* Made with HARPA AI

[@Contagious93812]

Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 The discussion centers around the Gospel of Thomas, a famous non-canonical gospel discovered in the Nag Hammadi library. 00:14 ‍ The Gospel of Thomas has a mysterious, secretive reputation, often associated with being banned from the Bible. 00:27 The Gospel of Thomas is unique as a sayings gospel with 114 sayings, focusing on hidden knowledge. 01:08 The prologue of the Gospel of Thomas highlights its nature as a sayings gospel, attributed to Didymus Judas Thomas. 01:49 Unlike New Testament gospels, the Gospel of Thomas lacks a historical framework, miracles, crucifixion, or resurrection. 02:30 The Gospel of Thomas was discovered in Egypt and is often called a Gnostic gospel, though this term can be misleading. 03:26 The Nag Hammadi library contained a variety of early Christian texts, including the Gospel of Thomas. 04:04 The discovery story of the Nag Hammadi texts is somewhat dubious, with theories suggesting they were grave goods. 04:46 The Gospel of Thomas was found in Coptic, an Egyptian language using the Greek alphabet. 05:13 Before the discovery, fragments of the Gospel of Thomas existed in Greek, and early Christian authors referenced it. 06:23 The Gospel of Thomas was known to early Christian authors who often viewed it as heretical. 08:56 The Coptic translation of the Gospel of Thomas dates to the 4th century, but the original Greek text is much older. 09:23 The Gospel of Thomas can be read quickly, offering a fascinating glimpse into early Christian teachings. 10:04 The prologue suggests Jesus had a public and secret ministry, and Didymus Judas Thomas recorded the secret sayings. 10:48 Thomas is an important figure in early Christianity, possibly considered Jesus's twin in wisdom and knowledge. 12:25 Some early Christians believed Thomas was Jesus's literal twin, though this is a controversial view. 13:28 The Acts of Thomas describes Thomas's missionary journey to India, emphasizing his importance in early Christianity. 14:31 Thomas is portrayed as a twin in both physical appearance and spiritual wisdom in various early Christian texts. 15:53 The identification of Thomas as Jesus's twin might have been a way to elevate his status among early Christians. 17:17 Early Christianity had diverse beliefs, and not all groups adhered to doctrines like the Virgin birth. 18:22 The Gospel of Thomas's different perspective shows the variety of early Christian beliefs and texts. 22:16 The Gospel of John might include the doubting Thomas story to challenge the reverence for Thomas in some Christian communities. 22:44 Early Christian texts, including Paul's letters, show evidence of internal disputes among Christians. 23:12 Paul often wrote his letters to convince communities that were doubting his teachings. 23:40 In the Gospel of Thomas, other apostles, especially Peter, are portrayed as lacking understanding compared to Thomas. 24:49 The Book of Revelation might include letters to churches that contradict Paul's teachings, reflecting internal Christian debates. 25:18 In Christian art, doubting Thomas is depicted touching Jesus' wounds, but the Gospel of John does not explicitly say he did so. 25:47 Doubting Thomas story reflects the debate about Jesus' physical resurrection versus a spiritual resurrection. 26:53 Thomas is portrayed in different ways in the Gospel of John, both as doubting and as faithful. 27:34 Early Christians often expanded on side characters from the gospels, similar to writing fanfiction. 28:14 Some scholars see the Gospel of Thomas as supplementary to Jesus' public teachings, while others view it as contradictory. 29:10 The Gospel of Thomas emphasizes salvation through knowledge (gnosis) rather than through Jesus' actions. 30:05 Saying 3 in the Gospel of Thomas suggests the Kingdom of God is within and outside of you, contrasting with New Testament apocalypticism. 31:03 The Gospel of Thomas rejects the physical Kingdom of God concept, emphasizing a spiritual realization instead. 32:12 The Gospel of Thomas could be seen as a response to the anxiety around unfulfilled prophecies. 32:55 Early Christian communities sometimes reinterpreted failed prophecies to mean spiritual rather than physical events. 34:30 In 2 Timothy, an early 2nd-century text, opponents are mentioned who believe the resurrection already happened, similar to the Gospel of Thomas' themes. 35:42 The Gospel of Thomas promotes a realized eschatology, suggesting the Kingdom of God has already come in a spiritual sense. 36:09 ‍ The Gospel of Thomas doesn't fit the full Gnostic mold but emphasizes hidden knowledge and spiritual understanding. 37:20 The Gospel of Thomas discusses the condemnation of the material world and the importance of the spiritual realm. 38:27 The Gospel of Thomas views the material body as poverty and the spirit as great wealth, reflecting a dualistic view. 39:07 The Gospel of Thomas reflects themes appealing to Gnostic audiences, such as the condemnation of the material world. 40:15 The Gospel of Thomas suggests humans were originally divine beings of light, influenced by Platonic and Genesis themes. 41:24 The Gospel of Thomas emphasizes the realization of one's divine, primordial self, contrasting with material existence. 42:31 The Gospel of Thomas reflects a bifurcated anthropology, viewing the material self as secondary to the spiritual self. 43:55 The Gospel of Thomas suggests salvation through the realization of hidden knowledge, aligning with mystical traditions. 44:24 The Gospel of Thomas reflects Platonic ideas of pure spirits trapped on Earth in physical bodies. 45:07 Orthodox Christians believe humans reflect God's divine qualities despite being in physical bodies. 45:48 The Gospel of Thomas tries to interpret biblical concepts like being created in God's image. 46:54 Christians in the Gospel of Thomas era were contending with their own scriptural interpretations. 48:03 Saying 13 implies secret knowledge, with Jesus speaking three words to Thomas privately. 49:10 One interpretation of the three words Jesus said to Thomas is "I am you," suggesting twinship. 50:07 The Gospel of Thomas is intentionally difficult to interpret, with multiple possible meanings. 51:05 Saying 108 suggests anyone can become like Jesus through knowledge, revealing hidden things. 52:55 Thomas might be special for achieving enlightenment, serving as an exemplar for others. 56:09 Saying 52 implies Jesus as the ultimate revealer of knowledge, possibly undermining Old Testament prophets. 58:14 Saying 14 seemingly contradicts the canonical gospels by condemning fasting, praying, and giving alms. 59:23 Saying 64 criticizes commerce and wealth, suggesting it distracts from spiritual goals. 01:04:02 Scholars suggest the Gospel of Thomas might have originated from an ascetic community. 01:04:43 Saying 42, "Be passersby," may suggest detachment from the physical world. 01:05:08 Saying 105, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called son of a prostitute," remains particularly puzzling. 01:06:05 Saying 105 is particularly puzzling, and scholars find it challenging to interpret. 01:06:49 Some interpretations suggest "mother" could refer to a female spirit or the Holy Spirit in Gnostic traditions. 01:07:18 Saying 106 emphasizes unity, suggesting making the two one, inside like outside, and male like female. 01:08:28 Jesus rejects the role of divider in saying 72, highlighting his focus on unity. 01:09:42 Saying 22 emphasizes the goal of reunifying the material and divine self, reflecting a bifurcated anthropology. 01:11:03 The theme of becoming a single, unified self is influenced by Platonic and Genesis interpretations. 01:12:38 The Gospel of Philip also discusses the separation of sexes as part of humanity's fall, aiming for reintegration. 01:13:48 Saying 114 suggests women must become male to enter the kingdom of heaven, indicating a potential gender hierarchy. 01:16:06 The Gospel of Thomas reflects Platonic and Genesis themes, with scriptural exegesis influencing its concepts. 01:18:54 The Gospel of Thomas, despite its mystical elements, shares some theological foundations with early Christian Orthodoxy. 01:20:19 The Gospel of Thomas wasn't included in the New Testament canon due to doubts about its apostolic authorship and differing theologies. 01:21:13 The text’s focus on mystical experiences and deeper understanding of God aligns with early Christian mysticism. 01:22:38 Early Christian Orthodoxy and mysticism shared similar goals of understanding God's wisdom and conforming to His image.

[@huguettebourgeois6366]

thank you Alex, please continue these great podcasts!!!!

[@futurelegendfilms]

Great discussion. Very enjoyable.

[@jessaminelightbody1995]

Thanks

[@tinalanger7589]

Really enjoyed this dialogue. It was great!

[@spiralsausage]

This was such a great watch!!

[@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901]

I've seen Barth Erhman say that Thomas seems to have been considered Jesus' twin in a non-literal sense, and later sources indicate that some early christians saw thomas as an exemplar of following jesus' example, and so he became twinned to Jesus

[@kenkaplan3654]

I think this is the more apt explanation. Thomas is a very esoteric text. This fits with Vedanta which says you and the Guru are one.

[@TheDynamicJAB]

Exemplar? Is this the same "Doubting Thomas"?

[@kenkaplan3654]

@@TheDynamicJAB Yes. The Thomas communities claimed superior secret knowledge. The Johannine community was adamant they held the truth. One way to disparage and deride the Thomas view is to create him as the lout, the one who doesn't get it, the last to understand but only because of material proof. John does this a lot to others as well. The Thomas view (among others) was rejected as Christianity slowly built Jesus into a Hellenistic God, codified at Nicaea in 323 when the Trinitarians won the day. John became the big winner and Johannine theology rules Christian thinking and doctrine. It is easier for the masses to understand the crude portrayal and beliefs of orthodoxy (he died for our sins, he is the unique son of God, etc) than the more nuanced and complex theology of the Gospel of Thomas. Now we are mature enough to grasp it.

[@bcatcool]

A friend of mine said he read the book 'the hidden secrets of the Bible' and now understood its hidden meaning. Funnily enough he had t actually worked out what the Bible teaches directly. Much most of you guys. What a joke of intellectual bs

[@eprd313]

​@@bcatcoolbetter than the contradictory, nonsensical, perverse joke that the orthodox faith is

[@dontaefernandez]

Just discovered your channel and really love the discussions you have with your guests. Fascinated by the gospel of Thomas!

[@aliceburgess1193]

Fass. Sin. Ate. Ting !!! Never heard of the sayings of Thomas though I know about the Apocryphal texts. When you think about these sayings in the light of what NDEs tell us… Bingo! It’s all starting to make a lot of sense. Loved the quality of the conversation and the exchange of ideas. Thankyou for a super discussion. I’ve got to get hold of this text now and read it! And Plato too!

[@laurajarrell6187]

Alex, great conversation! Great guest. 👍🏿💙💙💙🥰✌🏻

[@tgree8695]

Rly enjoying this series, keep it up Alex.

[@lindsaytwort8655]

He is saying….We are all one! God lives in us all.

[@LyndaHubbs]

I’m so sorry but, Jesus not not live inside all of us. Only those who believe!

[@existentialhotdog5380]

@@LyndaHubbs lol.

[@moniquederksen1902]

@@LyndaHubbs if there is a God, who created us, then we are indeed all one, and God lives in all of us, since we are all part of its creation, all is connected, as lots of the mystics in various religions and books wrote. If this is true, then it shouldnt matter whether one believes it or not, it just is. Wouldnt you say so.

[@Dustandfuzz]

No, God cannot live in an unrepentant sinner. We need cleaning up from the blood of Jesus. To claim that we need to first be believers. You can tell when the Holy Spirit Of God comes to live in you. You are never alone, your burden of sin is lifted and you are not afraid to die.

[@corinamaxim8254]

​@@DustandfuzzGod is not like the unrepenting sinner. He is like a good father or mother, who keeps forgiving and loving their imperfect child no matter what.

[@taniacummings9207]

That was wonderful, Alex, thank you so much. I enjoyed the Elaine Pagels one as well. Look forward to more as I explore the gnostic gospels.

[@Claude-1948]

Thank you for peaking my curiosity about the gospel of Thomas. It bears further study and contemplation over the true meaning of some of those sayings.

[@strider_hiryu850]

1:12:56 i heard recently, and this fits even better with Platos idea of the original androgyne being having been bifurcated. and that's that the text does not in fact say that Eve was formed from Adam's rib, but from his side. that is to say, the original primordial androgynous being was bifurcated to form the two. which i think makes a whole lot more sense. you know, we tend to scoff at the Adam & Eve story. "how could a woman be formed from a mans rib? preposterous!" and there's this Christian cope "well no! you can actually feel it. your left ribcage has 1 less rib than your right." when in fact it does. but this whole back & forth stems from a mistranslation!! it's just like how the commandment isn't "Thou shalt not kill". again, it's another mistranslation. no it's "Thou shalt not murder." 1:18:45 again, i don't know. i think with all the... what did Andrew call it? "Twintheology"? i think the quote is addressed specifically to Simon Peter's inquiry about Mary. but if he were to ask the same thing about a different person, a male person; he would say the vice versa equivalent. the female is "incomplete" without the male, but so too is the male "incomplete" without the female. or the feminine without the masculine, and the masculine without the feminine. 1:24:07 great show, loved the in depth discussion. and i'm excited to see more like this!! one final thought. i don't think this book was determined non-canonical because of the reasons laid out by Andrew. i think it's because of it's heretically equal treatment of the sexes. y' know, outside of that last saying, and even within it under a more charitable interpretation, it's pretty equal. again, because of that Platonic idea of the original primordial androgyne. Andrew mentioned the Gospel of Thecla, also a gospel which equalizes women to some degree. the Gospels were not canonized by God, i remind everyone. they were canonized by men. human, male, men. is it really any wonder that the canonical gospels uphold the patriarchy? (sorry if that was a bit too feministy, but i think it's true!)

[@serversurfer6169]

Male men? That's the worst kind! 😯

[@jaefernandez6128]

We all have 12 ribs on each side

[@strider_hiryu850]

@@jaefernandez6128 i think i meant to say "when in fact it doesn't". i can't remember tho. this comment of mine was written 5 months ago and i do forget what my intentions were. it's also not written well and i might delete it later

[@danielgadomski5129]

What a great team up! Thank you guys!

[@Randomsae]

Always thinking of this quote from Lost when Thomas is brought up. " Ben Linus: Thomas the Apostle. When Jesus wanted to return to Judea, knowing that he would probably be murdered there, Thomas said to the others, "Let us also go there and we might die with him." But Thomas was not remembered for this bravery. His claim to fame came later when he refuses to acknowledge the resurrection. He just couldn't wrap his mind around it. The story goes that he needed to touch Jesus wounds to be convinced. Jack Shephard: So was he? Ben Linus: Of course he was. We are all convinced sooner or later, Jack. "

[@bon47ful]

Loving these discussions...thank you❣️

[@user-zu7gk9ol9f]

Wonderful exploration! Thank you!!

[@cytuber]

Love these discussions. Personally, I think we can understand these saying/quotes a little better if we come from an Eastern religious or philosophical background.

[@joseph7105]

Not sure if this is Alex's intention, but the more I watch this channel and the more I think about it, the more open I am to Christianity and I'm really starting to think it might be true. This coming from a hardcore atheist just a few years ago...

[@WickedIndigo]

I completely understand what you mean. I won’t ever believe in the common orthodox Christianity that is practiced today because there are so many problems internally and externally, but these mystical texts really grab my attention. A lot of mysticism is really what’s taken me back from being an atheist. Now, I’d still say I’m an atheist because I don’t have an active belief in any supreme being. But I guess I’m more open to a mystical framework of life. Concepts such as those in Advaita Vedanta (meaning “not two” or “non dual”) are extremely intriguing to me and strike me as true. The notion that God is really just the whole of reality. God is within us and without us, and what we truly are is just the conscious awareness of our moment to moment experiences. It seems like these non-canon texts are getting at this idea. The idea that the light of God is within all of us and when you split a log with an axe God is also present there too. I’m a rambling little fucker but hopefully I’m making some sense here😂 Sending love my friend🙏

[@markhathaway9456]

@@WickedIndigo You're very clear. Churches can be awful, so approaching this issue from your direction makes a lot of sense.

[@JonathonLlamas]

I'm a Christian and in the process of becoming a confirmed Catholic. Alex has made me believe in the existence of God even more. Because of his open mindedness and honest dialogue I have been a stronger believer in the existence of God.

[@oliverbarklund6470]

Its true. Seek and you shall find.

[@Will-wz3wq]

Its because of who he is talking to. You are getting to know their faith. Alex has good taste. And many questions. We are the lucky ones.

[@jacksonelmore6227]

The material world isn’t condemned, but the egoistic attachment to it is objectively acknowledged

[@tookie36]

It seems like the materialist worldview forces people to see everything as a binary and then easily misinterpret these passages

[@kenkaplan3654]

This is common to nearly all religions, especially in the East.

[@jacksonelmore6227]

@@kenkaplan3654 the religion of *atheism often overlooks this ego to Self dichotomy, this is why these two use the word “condemn” or “disparage” here, in their forgivable misunderstanding of the text

[@kenkaplan3654]

@@jacksonelmore6227 I agree. Neither of them are mystics (well Alex isn't) but the passages they cite eassily could be the bassis for Buddhism, Vedanta or any form of mysticism. All posit we have an "essential nature" that is beyond the ego-psyche-physical.

[@eprd313]

​@@jacksonelmore6227look up what words mean before using them.

[@percubit10]

We are here to make an impact. We are not just passing through.

[@matchoobocka]

I think it also means, "Be Witness". Also, don't let shit stick to you, let it go. Also, be present and notice everything coming into being and passing away. We definitely are part of the destiny of the planet.

[@joeyrufo]

1:09:05 lol! "I'm no divider." Jesus is doing the "get a load of this guy" move

[@mitchelllion6052]

Always a great time when religion for breakfast is on

[@DonaldGarcia-hi2cv]

Breakfast 2 breakfast 4 2

[@kimberlyanndeangelo7584]

"If you fast, you will bring forth sin in you"... Deep fasting brings forth deep conscience and consciousness and the inner quietness that lets awareness rise, and we see the true nature and pure being we are made to be in contrast to how we have been living, thinking, believing in error or "sin" or "missing the mark". None of this is condemnation. It is an invitation.

[@andie9589]

I have fasted for seven days, I wonder why I didn’t go into deep consciousness and inner quietness. I just felt weak and ready to eat.

[@kimberlyanndeangelo7584]

@andie9589 Deep fasting is fasting from more than just food. It is about quieting the physical senses and stimuli, letting all of yourself rest. This rest can offer us to experience our being more clearly.

[@rockswishersmusichouse473]

In my personal experience being hungry to the point of biological stress does not bring peace or clarity. It brings irritability, and inability to focus on anything but food. But I agree non the less

[@Holly9239]

A new heaven and a new earth. The kingdom here on earth, where it will be renewed to its beginning state, when we realize the power to transform it is by embracing the teachings of Jesus and following the kingdom laws written in our hearts and minds. ❤️

[@WOMENOFTROY]

Fascinating. Thanks for posting.

[@shilohbuckle3134]

Super excited for this new series!

[@whenifeellikeit]

'Be a passerby' means don't attach to this world, lose your attachments (which traders and business men have - money, status, ownership...) These earthly attachments stand in the way of realisation of the true self.

[@D4n1t0o]

Please do one of these on the gospel of judas next! The vision of christian spiritual truth in that text reads as so much more intellectually sound and appealing than the current accepted orthodoxy.

[@xMXWLx]

"intellectually appealing"....... is that the point? if you dont believe, if you dont even believe in god, why are you guys trying to understand it?

[@D4n1t0o]

@@xMXWLx I have to believe in something to find it interesting and worthy of further investigation/thought?

[@vaudemu2263]

@@xMXWLx thee same reason people are interested in any other mythology

[@davidspencer343]

​@xMXWLx the same reason people sre interested in greek mythology. Understanding cults in history is entertaining for some. Its not that deep

[@stresslimit]

It’s a false gospel

[@tookie36]

Big brother really helping little bro get thru this text. Nice job!

[@PaulaSue-e1e]

Thank you this was excellent. I found you through Elaine Pagels. Keep up the great work!! ♥️💥♥️

[@chronicmoon9829]

Thanks!! I'm enjoying your channel. I love this "stuff".

[@bitofwizdomb7266]

Luke 25:1 “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

[@Alfie1970Waterhouse]

Cheeky 😊

[@adanorozco8910]

Revelation 22:18-19: I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

[@eugenabroussard8349]

◇

[@rylands4289]

I hate you somuch😂😂 i really tried looking this in the bible. this is a saying by buddha 😂😅

[@A_Stereotypical_Heretic]

@@adanorozco8910 yeah that's specifically about the book of revelation. Not the bible as a whole.

[@oakbellUK]

Can i suggest that this Gospel of Thomas is easier to understand as a Zen text. Many of the struggles you are having are released if, for example, you switch 'kingdom of heaven' for 'nirvana'. I'm not necessarily saying it is a product of Buddhism (though there was already cross-fertilisation between Greeks and Buddhists before Jesus), but that they are both drawn from the same pursuit. There is only one 'reality' out there and, if mystics grapple with it, you would expect many of them to arrive a similar positions. The Chinese seem to be more along this road, seeing Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism as three branches of the same tree.

[@eprd313]

Yeah, this makes much more sense! However, I would differ regarding confucianism though. Daoism emerged almost as a rebellious response to it. Buddhist ideas were later integrated into both, bringing them closer together (what differs mostly are the methods to achieve such enlightenment), but initially, in essence, people like Zhuang Zi said the opposite of what Kong Fu Zi said regarding hierarchies and rituals. It's sad that religious daoism drifted so far away from its origins, I guess just like orthodox christianity embodies the opposite of proto-christian mysticism.

[@loriedmundson782]

Yes! Exactly!

[@pmaitrasm]

Yes, most Christian scholarship is stuck in the Græco-Roman bubble, and most scholars, including Bart Erhman, neglect to bring their studies to completeness.

[@ancientdarkness3102]

When reading it i felt Lao tzu vibes

[@pierrelabounty9917]

Probably. Might fit in better. 😮

[@Mevlinous]

“When you come to know yourself then you will be known” This indicates you are both the subject and the object. A process of the subject knowing itself as the subject separate from conscious objects like the sense of bodily self, the thoughts etc needs to occur, a purification of subject to become pure awareness. When you know yourself as the subject, you are also NOT the body, that is the objectification. When pure awareness knows itself as no thing, it grasps for an object to identify with. But all objects are seen as other. It leaves a bittersweet taste as the self is both readily known, yet not apparent. But if that grasping can ease, you will see the non dual aspect of self. Split a piece of wood etc. satori.

[@Mevlinous]

@OnceTheyNamedMeiWasnt I don’t really have a belief on this, though much of what I’ve said are theoretical understandings of an experiential knowing, therefore are translations like fingers pointing to the thing in itself, and therefore due to the limitations of language, don’t fully capture the reality of the situation. Some belief systems such as advaita Vedanta hold this view that you mentioned. I withhold judgment around that, as my “level of consciousness” has not yet reached that purported stage. I realised I was the observer of all experience. All the experiences of THIS body, not of all bodies. Therefore I would not characterise my experience as that of god, but more of impartial observer of THIS life. It was the parting of the curtains of perception, but a movement from the personal to the impersonal individual, maybe more of a soul like experience. I had no notion or contact with a greater god like consciousness or entity, but rather realised who I thought i was, this person living this life, was more of a play, a kind of act or projection was taking place.s

[@Mevlinous]

@OnceTheyNamedMeiWasnt not terrifying, liberating. I had faced that initial terror of the thought that at my death no one would actually be with me, that I would be alone in my death, that we all are, many years ago as a younger man. Since a teenager I had felt something was actually missing, in the core of my being, or the heart or bottom of existence which I couldn’t put my finger on. I tried to understand the world and look for some meaning to it all, only to find the existentialists nightmare of nihilism. Eventually, my experience turned inward. I had an obsession with consciousness and trying to understand what it was. After coming up empty from the materialist perspective, my mind folded in on itself, observing itself. Realising that what I thought was the world, was my body, my mind was actually experience itself, and realising that deeply and experientially, not just intellectually, was the driver of the discover of the observer or self. When I realised my entire life had been a kind of play within consciousness, that was liberating, from the suffering of wanting something from this life, of struggling with personality and identity. I realise who and what I really was, which is experience experiencing itself.

[@stranger2Utube]

This whole series is amazing❤

[@davidjohnalpha]

I 'stumbled' across this - so refreshing & enjoyable to hear both narrations which were generally at home in me. Have now subscribed for future episodes. Thank you very much. Didnt hear comments on 'if God created male & female after 'his' own image' would not the Creator be both male & female (Alpha & Omega)? - this would justify the goal of soul integration with God/Christ further perhaps.

[@angaddhillon9736]

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥ You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us? ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥ We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

[@FFadeaway]

Reminds me of the line from Pink Floyd’s “Echoes”. strangers passing in the street, by chance two separate glances meet I am you and what you see is me

[@jeffthuss5613]

Fascinating discussion (as usual)! My knowledge of Buddhism is rather limited, but there does seem to be at least a few parallels in Thomas to important concepts from Buddhism. In particular, the irrelevance of the "material world" and the quest for salvation through Nirvana. Does anyone else get those vibes?

[@oliverlineberger6692]

I once saw someone speculating that Jesus was just trying to teach Buddhism, perhaps even as a missionary from Central Asia, but was misunderstood, and his message/ life story was changed after his death, and by the time the gospels were written down, he was unrecognizable. Seems extremely far fetched, but one could imagine he may have been influenced by those ideas which were brought to the near East from India and Central Asia around when he lived.

[@jeffthuss5613]

@@oliverlineberger6692 Maybe not so far fetched? They also mentioned in the video something about Thomas taking a trip to India. And who knows where Jesus was hanging out before he suddenly reappeared in Nazareth late in his life...

[@kenkaplan3654]

@@oliverlineberger6692 Jesus could not have been a Buddhist. Jesus was an uber Theist. Buddhism says there is no central organizing principle, However there is commonality in mystic traditions.

[@Tomf-tz4pd]

The obsession with these books is truly amazing instead of reading the canon, we want to look into such books. Apostle Paul was right about the condition of humanity in the last days. “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” 2 Tim 4: 3-4

[@bike4aday]

It's pretty clear to me that all major religions are talking about the same underlying phenomena. Emptiness in Buddhism is the Kingdom of God in Christianity. This place can be accessed through prayer or meditation. People are still becoming enlightened today.

[@NasuRat]

That’s like the most sibling thing to do. “My brother came back to life? Yeah I wouldn’t believe him, let me touch him first”

[@williamkoscielniak7871]

lol

[@matchoobocka]

Hahahahaha totally! Hahahaha Oh, Lord!

[@micahpanczyk]

Thank you for this wonderful discussion. Jean Yves LeLoup also has insightful perspective on these sayings of Jesus if you haven't seen his book.

[@gatemidi]

J'ai un exemplaire du livre. Leloup est très éclairant dans ses interprétations en français. J'ignore comment il se débrouille en anglais.

[@SoNoFTheMoSt]

I love how both of you have such good video and audio quality! i know it seems like a small thing but nearly every podcast or streamer just have the worst audio and camera quality!

[@hardywatkins7737]

I think Alex has it about right at 55:40 ... about an enlightenment (i prefer self realisation) available for all. Although it's not just about knowledge but also understanding which ideally will open your mind and heart. There's a buddhist saying which goes: "Understanding is the path to true love" - To know yourself and to know the other, as oneself, meaning a shared 'spirit' or 'being'. I experienced this mystical state some 29 years ago when i was 26. At the time i experienced it like a near death experience ... but like a psychological death, a death of the ego or false self so to speak. I had been through two years of trauma due to narcissistic abuse which fragmented or shook my sense of self, such that i just didn't know who or what i was anymore and in my suffering i was forced really, to 'find myself' and overcome my crisis. The actual process far too convoluted and nuanced to explain here, but cut to about 18 months later i had reached a point, one October night, in a kind of surrender of self acceptance and allowing whatever to be, i let go. In hindsight there were some very unusual sensations at the onset of the experience that tell me that one way of describing what happened is that i had a 'kundalini awakening' (“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up" ). So on this night i was anxious, hurting emotionally and suffering, but with a deep love and now, acceptance for my predicament. I had to let go of this ex' of mine, a woman i had loved deeply but who had abused and and betrayed me and caused me so much harm. I didn't want to but knew i had to, ... to cut the ties, and let her go and do whatever, and have a new begining myself, i'd done alot of inner work over those 18 months and there has been alot of healing and self love. So anyway a moment arrived and i let go, surrendered, and it wasn't intentional but rather it came over me, took me, and i let out a little whimper and kind of collapsed but no loss of consciousness ... just the deepest peace i've ever felt in my life, like all my burdens had vanished and i was in a totally rested state. I felt a very strange sensation ... as if there was a large metal or heavy ball bearing, or something, right up my ass, wobbling from side to side in a steady repeating rhythm. Even in that moment it bought up thoughts of how a rattlesnake rattles it's tail as it reminded me of that kind of rhythm, and it was so curious, ... what was this? (with the benefit of hindsight i think a muscular spasm or like something going on with the g spot?). - Then in this serene and deeply restful, peaceful state, a light flashed into being before my eyes, seemingly a few feet away perhaps but very much before me and my attention was drawn to and into this light. "Well done you have learned to love" it said. "But you cannot stay here in this state, however if you look after your body, ... treat it like a temple, you may be able to return at some point in the future". - I had lost awarness of a body in this state yet it also seemed that my center of consciousness was just on top of my head. I remember looking away from the light and still aware somewhat of my room and surroundings, and looking back at the light again, and then ... realisations. I was that light. "That's me?" i thought. I became aware that i was 'spirit' itself (not 'a' spirit, just spirit), or call it 'being' or a conscious presence and self, but also that there was no 'other'. I knew i was both nothing and nobody, yet everything and everybody. It seems my so called 'third eye' had fully opened also as i was experiencing everything in a very different way, most noticably, visually and spacially, and seeing auras if you like, ... energy fields and formations, patterns and also symbolic elements and it was as if whatever i thought about or focused on i would recieve information about both visually and just by 'knowing'. So in a sense a trance like visionary state but super aware, super-conscious. The light gradually faded and i kind of toyed around with my awareness seeing what i could do with it and i recall at one point 'looking' into my body (yes the one i'd lost awareness of) but not with my eyes, just by focusing awareness on it. After a while the experience faded and i returned to normal consciousness. Stunned, somewhat shaken, and intrigued by the experience. I stood up feeling quite invigorated and powerful and did a curious thing where i used my hands in a smoothing motion a good several times, from my heart down to my groin, as if i was pushing something gently back down ... kinda like some kind of grounding thing you might do in tai chi, ... kinda curious considering i much later came to understand it in the sense of a kundalini awakening, which kind of entails movement of energy and consciousness. So all in all i was kinda shocked by the occurence of that night. I'd never heard of people having experiences like that. I concluded that others must sometimes experience the same thing. Christ consciousness? A 'christ experience'? Yeah sure, considering the context of my predicament concerning someone i loved and their abuse and betrayal, and my struggles to understand and love and everything and the eventual acceptance and forgiveness. It actually was a massive, .. heroic even, effort and easily the most difficult and testing two years of my life. I draw many comparisons to the gospel of Thomas however the persona of Jesus kind of muddies the waters and confuses the issue. Spirit or 'being' doesn't have a name and it's a mistake to identify it with any one person over another. God is nothing other than your own self

[@janb8314]

When you find God, you have found yourself.

[@hardywatkins7737]

@@janb8314 I think it was Rumi who is quoted as saying "I searched for god and found only myself. I searched for myself and found only god". I think the best way to understand the Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas is not as a real entity or deity but as an archetype. The Jesus in the gospel states "I will become you", but this is not accurate and more descriptive, in truth you were always that, but just didn't know it, however that's not to say there's no effort involved ... you still need to all the shadow work, get humbled, see through the illusion of the egoic persona and transcend it ect and that no easy task and takes dedication and sacrifice and a sincere and single minded effort to grow into that self and manifest it in your personhood.

[@DomOfNarnia]

Love Your recognition❤

[@JulieLyle-y3h]

@@janb8314yes, that’s what is taught in Hinduism….Find the Self, and there you will find God.

[@rodintoulouse3054]

What a fantastic episode. I follow both of you and this is a great conversation. Both of you have the gift and the will to talk with facts and simple language anyone can access. No hiding in pseudo philosophical speak to mask weaknesses ( jordan peterson). Thank you and I hope you keep working together .

[@lichterlo8394]

Please get Bernardo Kastrup on the show Alex! 🙏🥺

[@GingerDrums]

Indeed! The first rigorous and somewhat convincing metaphysical idealist I have listened to.

[@shaikhnbake]

Agreed

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@GingerDrums lol.

[@Jaymastia]

Yes. I'll listen to this one

[@GingerDrums]

@@HarryNicNicholas unfortunately I'm not even joking 😃

[@heatherclark8668]

I really enjoy listening to 2 well-spoken intelligent people

[@karipetruch6771]

This is terrific content! Thanks so much!

[@gavin1869]

The verses where Jesus comments on unity and 2:1 comparisons are basically nonduality. Amazing to see this fundamental existential thought had been discovered independently by so many ancient religions, and yet, through the years we have lost this thread of truth.

[@tonydangelo778]

Man, typically, worships the God of this World: Religion.

[@PandaCheeks]

​@tonydangelo778 the 👎 god👎 of this world is satan 2 Corinthians 4:4 4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

[@tonydangelo778]

@@PandaCheeks uh oh - someone didn't take their Greek lesson and fell for another bad translation (intentional in this case). The word SATAN in Koine - sanatas means ADVERSARY/Enemy - not “The Devil” as English language religious folks (who worship doctrine, not Christ) translate it as (wait til you find out “hell” isn’t in the original Greek either - uh oh) And Satanas is NOT IN THAT VERSE. Also, religion is the ultimate enemy of God - which you would know if you followed GOD instead of religion. Crushing people under the weight of religious law and doctrine was the sin of the Pharisees and why Christ told them they would see the kingdom of God last (and be shamed for rejecting Christ and choosing religion) just as many of today's religious Christians who crush others under the weight of doctrine and law instead of putting their faith in Christ. Hope this helps! Love ya

[@PandaCheeks]

@tonydangelo778 uh oh looks like someone hasn't read their Bible lately...🙈 anyways here's the same verse, different translation! 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (Kjv) ;) God bless and peace!

[@tonydangelo778]

@@PandaCheeks Yes, that is correct - which is exactly what I said. Religion blinds the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. People think they have their faith in Christ. Take their books, their traditions, their sacraments, and they do not have faith. You can tell if someone is religious and not putting their faith in God because they preach hatred, death and then justify it by saying it’s God’s will by pointing back to their religion while crushing people under the unaccomplishable weight of doctrine and law. Same thing Christ told the Pharisees - which you would hear if you had ears to hear.

[@benjermin44]

Really enjoying this channel. Are you still the front man for Green Day or is this your full-time gig now?

[@WickedIndigo]

Nah Armstrong ain’t got shit on this guy💪

[@christiang4497]

Loved this talk! Any chance we'll see NT Wright sometime soon?

[@brianelza9807]

Fantastic! I'm learning so much!!!

[@wRAAh]

Great stuff... The next time I see a christmas display of the crib, I will think: "Hey! Where is Thomas' crib in the stable?!?"

[@martynspooner5822]

Thanks for all your excellent work Mr O Connor, I am a simple layman without any higher education but still really enjoy what you do .

[@ReadingTheWordWithJosh]

Alex, with due respect is a layman to biblical scholarly matters. He is learned of course but no more than you, professionally speaking. Keep leaking and come to your conclusions

[@martynspooner5822]

@@ReadingTheWordWithJosh With respect friend he is more learned than myself who through whatever circumstances did not finish high school. For me he is a very good starting place but I do take your point there are those wiho are more specialized.

[@janb8314]

@@martynspooner5822 You can be very intelligent without an enormus intellect. To have intellect is perhaps a stand in the way to understand these teksts.

[@martynspooner5822]

@@janb8314 Yes I hear you what I meant was I left school very early which wasn't that unusual in my generation but in hindsight it would have been great to have received a little more education but now it is at our fingertips.

[@antichrist.superstar]

Great interview. Could you please also do an episode on the Gospel of Epididymus?

[@jessewallace12able]

Best comment on this type of content.

[@pauljrose2513]

The one written by a couple of hangers on

[@oakbellUK]

At 30:00 you cite a section which says that the 'kingdom' is within, not an afterlife. This is near-identical to the Buddhist 'nirvana', which is not a state which can only happen well into the future, but is available right now. It seems to me that the great teachings, including the tao, are saying roughly the same thing. Could you explore this?

[@amandahollifield3297]

I love this talk!! Thank you both

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you.Watching from Alaska. 🤔

[@theunclejezusshow8260]

Preyz Gord for ths presentation

[@Natchjohn800]

High preyz brotherunclejesus

[@OilCanHarry2U]

I accept your preyz

[@theunclejezusshow8260]

@@Natchjohn800 🌠👋😎

[@tomconrad7091]

This is Thomas. I cry reading the words of my brother. The meaning is so clear yet biblical scholars fail to understand. If you understand you hold the light, if not you are in the dark. The worst part is I have to love both of you. ❤

[@isaiah6032]

The word of whom?

[@tomconrad7091]

@@isaiah6032 There a few of who have been serving the creator for millennia. Tears from special truths being revealed in the Gnostic Gospels that we knew, but had never heard spoken or seen written. The chosen ones operate under different rules that are written out in this text. For example, you cannot curse at God, when you die, you will go to heaven or hell. These texts are intended for his servants and not for his sheep. He is gathering his angles now.

[@sehrgut42]

​@@tomconrad7091🤣😂🤣

[@samwoodsywoods]

I have a pet theory that the "doubting Thomas" narrative added included to dispell the notion that Thomas was impersonating his twin Jesus, pretending to be Jesus reincarnated. If Thomas is seen to have been in the same place at the same time as resurrected Jesus, he cannot be accused of impersonating him.

[@BDnevernind]

In this case wouldn't it be someone else doing the doubting? I love it though. I don't believe any of these people existed, but I prefer this Monty Pythonian presentation over some literalist BS.

[@samwoodsywoods]

@@BDnevernind If it actually happened it would have to be someone else, but I think it is just a narrative that was created to combat a circulating narrative that the "resurrection" was just Thomas pretending to be Jesus.

[@inktologist]

​@@samwoodsywoodsI think it would fit well as he could be the young man running away in the cm garden of Gethsemane, attempting to replace Jesus on being captured. Having great guilt of not succeeding, He doubts Jesus survived/resurrected. A theory of course.

[@christopherjohnson9167]

You guys sound like insane conspiracy theorists lmao

[@bobon123]

@@christopherjohnson9167 Consider that there are people believing that a guy actually resurrected 🤣

[@RichardTetta]

The best wisdom from GOT: "If you bring out that which is within you, what you bring out will save you; If you do not bring out that which is within you, what you do not bring out will destroy you."

[@sally9352]

As a Christian, I enjoyed this. It was interesting. Thank you, Alex.

[@bryceferguson8409]

Been waiting for this… I come from Ohio heavy rural religious area and I’ve tried for very long to find my faith, for others it seems so easy and through my search for my faith I think I’ve found why. Ignorance wether conscious or subconscious some people choose to believe it despite understanding the inconsistency’s and other just never really learn about the background of the religion… to say you belive a book is purely the word of god and then let other human beings pick and choose what does and dosent constitute “divine” is a complete oxymoron we at least as a society need to move past the fundamentalist ideas that every word in these books is the inspired word of god when every conceivable angle says otherwise

[@kenkaplan3654]

Faith is best based on some form of direct expeerience of God. Then it moves beyond blind belief. There is the religion *of* Jesus, which is a great place to start a faith based orientation. There is the religion *about* Jesus, which is intensely mythological and rather worthless.

[@bryceferguson8409]

@@kenkaplan3654 I’ve had many experiences I considered at one time divine. However often times came after a traumatic experience the death of a pet, friend, loved one ect. And I could just as easily attribute these “spiritual experiences” my own mind trying to cope with my reality and make me feel better for example I have heard my passed grandmother speak to me on multiple occasions her voice cadence she answers all my questions but… it’s not really her it’s me my brain using the memories to manifest her becuase I couldn’t grieve her passing at that time. Idk maybe I’ve missed the point hopefully this is cohearant

[@jonathanstensberg]

For what it’s worth, the idea that every word in the Bible was directly dictated by God is not the historical view of Christianity. Catholicism, for instance, has states that the Bible is without error in “faith and morals”, meaning the claim to inerrancy is quite narrowly limited to ideas about God, good and evil, salvation, and closely related topics. In this view, the Bible is written by human authors who could misidentify dates and locations, badly estimate numbers, and employ literary devices that do not mean exactly what they say. I hope that context helps find some clarity for you!

[@sciptick]

@@jonathanstensberg It is obvious why some insist on inerrancy: there is no reason to expect it to be more reliable on one topic than another, or for its failings on one not to imply failings on others even harder to check. Rather, it should be most reliable on exactly those things easiest to check, establishing an upper bound on correctness, not a lower bound.

[@bootskanchelsis3337]

Alex's logo reminds me of the Dairy Queen logo

[@DonnaHolt-ge6om]

We are to do good for humanity and continue to raise our vibration by loving God, ourselves and our neighbors.

[@Arthur.404]

I've enjoyed your channel for a long time, but now I can honestly say you have been putting out more interesting content *for Christians* than any Christian podcaster I know. Keep 'em coming!

[@charleslemen2006]

I’d like to point out that the primordial man in Plato’s Symposium weren’t just androgynous. They came in three types, some that were half male and half female, like which are referenced in the video, some that both halves were male, and some that both haves were female. The myth was used as one of the ways to explain the origin of love, which is the topic of Plato’s Symposium as a whole. The myth explains that humans aren’t in their original whole state and are seeking out their other half for completion. However Plato makes a point in saying that the humans which descended from the primordial man in which both halves were male are superior than those that came from the androgynous and female humans(got to love that Greek misogyny). I think this context helps explain verse 114 in the Gospel of Thomas in that it shows people(Jews, Platonists, and early Christians) did just think the male spirit was superior to the female. If more people realized these beliefs are simply irreconcilable with feminism then maybe we could work towards a better secular humanist society

[@FranciscoCastillo-ot9ib]

Según los Griegos la generación implica un elementos femenino y masculino y ni significan estrictamente hombre y mujer así como los géneros gramaticales. La generación eterna o emanativa parece implicar un espíritu femenino activo y no solo pasivo que es el propio de la matriz en la generación material, pero el espíritu masculino es aquel que es principio de la reproducción pues implica forma y solo esto distinguía masculino y femenino en estos términos. Del Adán primordial es separado el espíritu femenino y se vuelven 2 entes discretos. Me parece que utilizar unos comentarios del banquete de Platón (mas bien parece retomar algo empedocleano y además no acepta tal teoría porque se la atribuye a Aristófanes en el mismo relato) y un evangelio apócrifo para sacar conclusiones así es apresurado.

[@izinstituta1286]

Who says feminism = better society?

[@innavision1920]

Feminism is ruining society