Did It Really Happen? Jordan Peterson vs Richard Dawkins

[@t9j6c6j51]

My wife told me to take the garbage out and I tried to explain that her axiomatic presumptions were pre predicated by her notions of metaphysical biblical texts. I took the garbage out.

[@idontknowyou876]

Well...that depends...​on what you meeean...by...😊@winros

[@LoftyAssertions]

What do you actually mean by "Wife"? Look, consider that you're obeying a commandment from this entity - and this entity has inexorable power AND judgement over you, like man... how do you separate that from God?

[@Arafat-my6fe]

​@@LoftyAssertions😂

[@peterlaurence4831]

🤣🤣🤣

[@swagmastero9278]

For anyone struggling, imagine a balloon slowly running out of air

[@modernmage2472]

Alex O'Connor wasn't the moderator, he was the translator.

[@pitpride1220]

😂 100%

[@Wretchedrenegade]

Underrated comment

[@nachiketkamble2600]

damn good one

[@selfhealing1047]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@pb4012]

I’ve not come across Alex before but he’s beautifully eloquent and clear. Very impressed.

[@purpleniumowlbear2952]

Alex has a unique gift to force JP to speak unambiguously, that he has exhibited on multiple occasions. If JP is ever a court witness, I'd hire Alex as the lawyer to question him.

[@hallunolla]

I think he's learned to read people very well, which might be why he gets along with people he disagrees with.

[@sprink88]

He even does it with chatGPT. If you haven't seen it, it's a great watch.

[@loganleatherman7647]

JP as a court witness…? They’ll never get to a verdict

[@TheSandyStone]

his "you must know" as a point of almost bafflement is honestly the best response. It puts him on the defensive about how silly it is to get into a weird corner.

[@Ixnatifual]

@@loganleatherman7647They just need to invite Alex “Peterson Whisperer” O’Connor.

[@galleon1968]

Saying to Peterson " you must understand what's being asked" made me chuckle.

[@yington]

Who is Peterson, the young interviewer?

[@subspaceanomaly]

​@@yingtonpeterson is the dickhead on the right

[@Gobando]

​@@yingtondepends what you mean by peaterson

[@yington]

@@Gobando Can you try and elaborate at least please. I’m still trying to work out who he is

[@Gobando]

@yington depends what you mean by trying? All jokes aside he is a Canadian psychologist that got famous grifting for the right and pretending to be religious but never stating his actual religious beliefs

[@Gest-wg2yb]

"Can you please answer the question without making up new definitions nobody actually uses?"

[@argfasdfgadfgasdfgsdfgsdfg6351]

It's the metaphysical hyper-real substrate of the manification of Nitzsche's perception of whatever the fuck he is talking about.

[@trannel314]

​@@argfasdfgadfgasdfgsdfgsdfg6351 your username makes more sense lol 😂😂

[@idesel]

He goes through an unintelligible speech when asked a yes or no answer. This guy is dishonest.

[@aidanking4197]

“But then you have to explain what definitions mean!”

[@tl7988]

@@aidanking4197 can you define definition in this case?

[@Robin.Backer]

I'm starting to get tired of Peterson's infinite search for abstraction. It genuinely adds nothing to the conversation. It just seems to me that Peterson is reaching for vagueness because he has nothing extraordinary to say anymore.

[@world_of_manny_malibu]

He never really had anything “extraordinary” to say in the first place. The whole “clean your room” shtick was definitely helpful to some misguided young men. But it wasn’t exactly a new or revolutionary suggestion

[@Chainwhips]

It’s his brand/business and essentially all he has to offer. It’s like discussing philosophy with a prostitute and wondering why all she does is whip out her breasts instead of answering a question. It’s….all he does.

[@archbishoprichardforceginn9338]

I think he should step down from the Ministry

[@jamesclerk815]

Starting to!? You my friend have the patience of a saint if that's true!

[@Léon-x3c]

I mean I get it, kinda. Most philosophical/metaphysical discourse is regurgitating what was already discussed by people centuries if not millennia ago. It’s hard to come to terms that you’ll probably never get the answers you want. The pursuit in and of itself of the divine has become more important than gods themselves.

[@world_of_manny_malibu]

I’m sure this isn’t a novel observation - but for a man who has built his career touting the evils and immorality of “post- modernism”, Jordan Peterson sure loves abstracting ideas to the point of pure meaninglessness!

[@macdougdoug]

Is post-truth a part of post-modernism?

[@SThrillz]

This is what I've never understood, he constantly rants on and on about post modernism but he's even worse than a post modernist

[@ZacharyBittner]

It's hilarious that he keeps talking about the changing context of the text and not realizing how post modern that is.

[@JNB0723]

@@SThrillz postmodernism is not a bad thing... and is, in fact, responsible for so much of the progressive movements we see today,

[@Olyfrun]

Postmodernism isn't what Peterson said it is. Peterson himself is what he says postmodernism is

[@MrSkittlez6969]

“Jordan , what do you think of the virgin birth story ….” Jordans response “well the thing is, you have to consider, using terms often referring to someone who, has and with great power comes great responsibility to potentially, causing friction between two sheets of the pages in the Bible!” Everyone listening *🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️* “Could you just respond to the question asked instead of saying absolutely nothing in response… please!?!”

[@adams4244]

4:11 - This is the brilliance of Alex O'Connor. Reframing the question to break through the nonsense Peterson is trying to throw in front of the answer.

[@KN-ck2kd]

So glad someone else noticed this. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I sometimes wonder whether this is the whole point of Oeterson's schtick? To confuse and impress people with the Jungian-Biblical word salad and then smuggle in Eurocentric historical chest-beating, regardless of whether those "facts" are ecen true...

[@ZJasmineDragon]

Underrated comment. The speed of that “yes” almost made me spit out my dinner

[@brwa5176]

@@ZJasmineDragon actually it seems like Alex, misunderstood what Jordan meant by saying yes at 4:24.

[@sandorski56]

Just say, "I don't know." Just once in awhile.

[@loganleatherman7647]

Peterson’s ego would never allow that. I don’t think he even has the capacity for that kind of humility

[@SpiderKissFly]

I can't understand how an intelligent person like that could have trouble answering those questions, but I thought I heard him say "I don't know" at least once 🤔 or maybe I am wrong.​@@loganleatherman7647

[@redhat4363]

He said that few times, but people don’t believe that he doesn’t know! They think he is too scared of admitting it!

[@TheSinlessAssassin]

He did, several times, when asked if the events in the Bible actually took place. But that wasn't his focus, it was the meaning to be extracted from the stories.

[@sajadadel4050]

Saying I don't know is a statement of the personal lack of knowledge which is in itself also knowledge and shouldn't be looked down upon because that leads to arguements like these

[@jonathanstewart7838]

What a bullshitter, he knows he's bullshitting they know he's bullshitting, but a bullshitter will never give up on his bullshitting.

[@eternallearner5395]

he knows they know he is bullshitting, yet he is still bullshitting

[@thrinethran2885]

Disagree on this after fair consideration by my lights. Peterson is sincerely indecisive on the propensities of the personal God. He is neither an agnostic nor, to my perception, a deep believer. If God could project or manifest the universe or macrocosm by ideation, then surely God could just as well freely intervene in the microcosm. This is what the devotional Hindus call God's play or Leela and their philosophers describe as Maya, a limited, transactional or illusory reality.

[@frogmorely]

@@thrinethran2885nah. he’s bullshitting

[@BlessingsBobMatongo]

​@@eternallearner5395😂😂😂well put, my friend 😂😂😂

[@jacktinney]

I don't think he knows he's bullshitting.

[@meteor1237]

The fact the JP makes a great living off saying nothing is a testament to human gullibility.

[@competiti22]

he says an awful lot, if you think its nothing then you dont understand what he is saying, not that one could blame you for that

[@meteor1237]

No, think it’s nothing because I do understand.

[@24ncole]

He uses word salad sometimes obviously but he has an awful lot of straightforward true things to say as well

[@TracyWilkinson-on5zr]

@@competiti22you’re funny 😅

[@CharlyCD93]

@@24ncolelike clean your room

[@1R1Y1A1N1R1O1B1]

"My evangelical base that supports me financially would revolt against me if I admitted that I dont believe in the virgin birth. But also my one final crumb of integrity I have left prevents me from just lying, as so many of my contemporaries have. So I will dodge the question even though it is abundantly clear where I stand, and why I wont announce it." There you go JP, I even made it wordy enough for you to enjoy saying it.

[@ccrider3435]

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" - Upton Sinclair

[@sleepytyme]

That’s plausible. But I think this is a genuine manic episode. I don’t think it’s intentional deceit. Rather, he mistakes his racing, disconnected thoughts as something profoundly true. And he is irritated that he can’t express his thoughts in a manner that is as coherent and magical as his thoughts feel to him when he hears himself speak aloud to people who listen.

[@deltagolf1015]

I disagree with this. I understand the point but I don't think the motivation to his answers are financially based. I lean toward the points that if he answered simply, like they wanted, then there would be so much context missed by based assumptions going forwards. there seems to be something he is struggling to articulate, that is important to his understanding that is not lynch pinned on biological sex. I like your insight though.

[@threestars2164]

I doubt the jewish woman the mary myth is derived from would agree with the idea of a "virgin birth".

[@dogitosama]

100%

[@bennozelaar]

I am starting to doubt that Peterson only eats meat since word salads are his thing 🤣

[@Sheebalba]

Had maybe more something to do with his brain surgery in Russia 😊

[@dest8401]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 very good.

[@noisemagician]

Nice.

[@dodumichalcevski]

​@@Sheebalba What ?

[@noax7635]

"what the fundamental reality and significance of the notion of the resurrection" nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom yummy salad

[@danreiter263]

Peterson's rambling answers remind me of my high-school essays when I didn't study or read the book and had to write 1,000 words.

[@dalecoleman9844]

If God impregnated Mary, did she give consent. The Bible says that God told her after the conception that she was pregnant. So the Bible says that God raped Mary. Is that acceptable?

[@CCCBeaumont]

Except Jordan Peterson is bright, articulate and actually understands the subject matter.

[@mirziyodm]

@@CCCBeaumont He's got no idea on most subjects he "talks" eloquently about.

[@CCCBeaumont]

@@mirziyodm If you think so that tells me way more about you than it does about him. It's okay to be ignorant, uneducated, stupid, or all three, . . . what's irritating, however, is to be some combination of those things and think you can pass judgement on someone who is, in every way, your intellectual superior.

[@mirziyodm]

@@CCCBeaumont It just tells about your stupidity and ignorance if you think that JP is somehow "intellectually superior" over anybody with standard college degree.

[@backyard282]

How is Jordan Peterson regarded as an intellectual in the first place? He just speaks word salads, fancy vocabulary and phrases. But when you actually break down the his question-answer structure you realize the dude is saying fucking nothing lol

[@NorDixonSkiSchool]

I'm glad you press him on this. The more aggressively he speaks, the less sense he makes. When his arguements lacks in substance JBP attempts.to compensate with aggressive over the top body language and tones

[@YHAMILADAMESPEREZ]

Anybody, my dude, anybody.

[@archbishoprichardforceginn9338]

​@@YHAMILADAMESPEREZ Anem

[@archbishoprichardforceginn9338]

He may need to step down from the Ministry

[@adamkernohan]

“I mean seriously!!” 😂

[@vlastermaster]

Sadly, there's a lot of dumb people who buy his rhetorical crap.

[@grosbeak6130]

He has no problem whatsoever at all in defining a woman. But then Jordan Peterson does this.

[@Firstname_Surname]

He does, actually, somewhat. When asked "what is a woman" directly, he said "marry one and find out". In other words, he doesn't think there's a clear definition apart from a subjective sense.

[@remimilligan1577]

​@@Firstname_Surnamethat was a long time ago when we was a moderate on trans issues. He is now against medical transitioning even for adults.

[@spiritfingers98]

@@remimilligan1577 What do you mean by against? Like I'm against it. I think it's harmful but I wouldn't take away an adults right to do it. I'm against it for children in the sense I think it should be completely illegal.

[@Firstname_Surname]

@@remimilligan1577 ok, how is that related to defining a woman?

[@stephenoxf]

Wait hang on, how is it harmful if it has a 96% satisfaction rate and stops people's mental health from declining significantly, even with professional help.

[@jonnythepartisan]

"Science emerged in Europe and nowhere else in the entire history of humanity," is an absolutely wild thing to say.

[@GaryHouston-f2n]

Apparently the Mayans and their astronomers don’t qualify, not white enough.

[@shabeebameen7774]

Indeed, also an incredible falsehood to come from a former ivy league “scientist”…

[@JohnJohn-cu7nk]

I just commented similar.China😂

[@dovah2320]

I thought the same thing

[@mickeyrube6623]

Nope. You guys are getting it entirely wrong: The moment Jesus took his last breath on the cross, science was finally born in Europe. Weren't you guys paying attention to what Jordan Peterson was saying?

[@kinski9398]

"science emerged in Europe and nowhere else in the entire history of humanity" nearly fell off my seat when he said that - f**k me

[@gustavomendoza9338]

Idk how there wasn’t more pushback on that

[@JDthegamer209]

I think he should have specified what type of "science" he's talking about. I think he means the scientific method, not all science.

[@arthurtfm]

Peterson's whole thing is to make it seem like he's dealing with something so complex that he himself can't comprehend it; hence the frowning, hand gestures, pauses, looking at the horizon in agony, and endless word salad. The subtext being that you, the listener, is even further from comprehending it, because after all he is "Jordan Peterson". Real understanding feels easy and clear. If you can't be concise, work harder and don't waste our time.

[@danielmewes]

Good insight! That makes a lot of sense.

[@tonyowens3601]

Yup, it's part of his "brand", it's what made his Marvel superheroes video even more hilarious

[@jankrzyz8589]

Did you ever consider that there's a subset of people who understand what he is saying? Just because you don't get it and read thousand comments where people also don't, doesn't mean there's no sense there.

[@tonyowens3601]

@ when someone asks you a direct question and you don’t want to answer it, a good option is to simply state that you are uncomfortable with the question and then give the reasons why, without all of the aforementioned seizure activity.😉

[@jankrzyz8589]

@@tonyowens3601 he stated many times that the question itself is invalid. To a decontextualized question like "has this happened" you may only answer in a limited way, and he did answer.

[@onnadarts23]

Q: Was Jesus born of a virgin? A: I don't know how to mediate the fact/value dichotomy in that case.

[@gonx9906]

It depends on what you mean by Jesus.

[@onnadarts23]

@@gonx9906 Jesus is a dragon, a substantiation of the predator class that all heroes must overcome.

[@stevenstewart3171]

I think a simple follow up question would be: if it did happen, could it happen again?

[@jessephillips8319]

Realy he is saying, people base there faith on these types of answers so I don't want to answer and use it to attack peoples faith.

[@Unlocktube]

​@@jessephillips8319I sincerely doubt he has an issue with attacking people's faith, just certain people's faith.

[@jureambroz9557]

Jesus listening to Peterson is such brain rot. He really does say nothing.

[@martiendejong8857]

I just imagined Jesus listening to Peterson

[@loganleatherman7647]

@martiendejong8857 Jesus to Peterson: “My son… please just stop”

[@kensheck2049]

@@loganleatherman7647 Or, Jesus to Peterson (a la Ralph Kramden of The Honeymooners): "You're a blabbermouth! A blaaaaaaaabermouth!!!!!"

[@Slayer-Josh]

“Well that depends what you mean by brain. And what do you mean rot? Is that physiological, biological, metaphorical, or socioeconomic?”

[@spicoli4217]

It’s a brain rot due to the context of his blabber and the fact that his voice can be frequently cited as causing ear cancer

[@adammoore7447]

A better question has always been ¨ How did anyone know that she was a virgin?¨

[@diegoadolfolopezbarranco4565]

Because it's written in the bible, but just before she gives birth to Christ , as we know she was married to Joseph so claiming that she was virgin after having given birth is quite wrong.

[@gmctiernan00]

No one uses more words to say less than Jordan Peterson

[@24ncole]

Kamala Harris does

[@gmctiernan00]

@@24ncole yeah, like when she talks about windmills, or flushing toilets, or Arnold Palmer's dick,,,,oh wait. You should maybe sit this one out dummy

[@gmctiernan00]

@@24ncole I know right, like when she rambles on and on about windmills, or flushing toilets a bunch of times, or Arnold Palmer's dick,,,,,,oh, wait. Maybe sit this one out and stop embarrassing yourself

[@johndean4765]

Gmctiernan heres a perfect example of this man avoiding a yes or no answer.He,after being asked the question about the virgin birth went on to a tirade of nonsense that STILL avoided answering yes or no.Its frequently used by devious politicians, to avoid a proper honest reply they go off into a tangent.

[@donh8223]

The term "word salad" comes to mind

[@cipollino4754]

The way Alex cornered JP was so masterful. Not only did he state the question very clearly but he also did it in the most polite, gentle way possible. This kindness really disarms people. We still only got a "I don't know" answer but at least people can see that JP wasn't pressured or taken out of context. When someone asks you like that you can't shield yourself with some BS. Go Alex!

[@Mothman156]

And this is the proper way to challenge a person. You usually get more with sugar than you do with shit.

[@badhombrefishing]

your right it was brilliant. the equivalent of yelling yes or no. yes or no. yes or no! answer the way we want!

[@Lucy-dn8gn]

@@badhombrefishing more like, stop avoiding the question

[@magnetiktrax]

@@badhombrefishing do you understand what a false equivalency is? If you're a Peterson fan, then probably not.

[@inquisitor1984]

@@badhombrefishing he didn’t do that, tgough. He clearly told Jordan that “I don’t know” is an answer. It’s bot an orthodox Christian answer, of course; but it is an answer.

[@gabrielhemingway]

I think the primary issue with Peterson is that he doesn't want to alienate his Christian base, but he also doesn't want to alienate his non-Christian base simultaneously. This has led him to engage in profound intellectual dishonesty, all because he sees stating his real views on Christianity to be a reputation killer; ironically, these interviews with O'Connor are fanning the flames of that process quite well for Jordan.

[@sammuslu2992]

Well said I totally agree 👍

[@Slayer-Josh]

Exactly. If u watch earlier videos of Peterson, like his lectures from 10+ years ago, he’s more direct. Unfortunately wokism pushed him to align with the right and now he has to find ways to appease the delusional Christians or risk losing his livelihood further

[@zzz66688]

Jordan's Christian fanbase is intertwined with the right wing anti-woke crowd, to deny Christianity is to bend the knee to the left wing cultural marxist wokies, thus admitting defeat.

[@WhiskerDooz]

Politics in a Nutshell. Can't stand it

[@queball685]

This is what I've always thought. He's not stupid he literally refers to it all as a myth so he basically confirms it's not reality

[@jbarber1016]

“I can’t answer truthfully because I like Christian men to support my content for financial value”

[@sitindogmas]

"you must understand what you are being ask here" with that accent is savage

[@UnJeuneChezColumbo]

It was majestic.

[@sitindogmas]

@UnJeuneChezColumbo JP should have responded, in the same accent " balderdash and poppy cock." they both would've felt that

[@fadeitluie9356]

Yeah, Alex was being ignorant 😂 it's like asking a scientist do numbers actually exist.

[@UnJeuneChezColumbo]

@@fadeitluie9356 You must understand that's not the same.

[@JasonX2]

Very polite way of saying wtf are you talking about breh

[@trinsit]

You can't say Truth will set you free and then make up lies and call them truth and entirely ignore truth and facts.

[@canchero724]

Just say I don't know when it's convenient 😂

[@trinsit]

@@canchero724 when it's the truth, what else can you do? 😂 Making ideas and a hypothesis is not the same thing as making claims about everything we don't know.

[@davidcormack7658]

It would be interesting to see Douglas Murray question Peterson.

[@elltonc]

It's a yes or no question.

[@lampy4485]

It serves no functional purpose as such. Factual yes.

[@Youttubeuser20932]

It does serve a purpose. If he believes in supernatural nonsense, it makes him less credible on the eyes of many people. It also serves the purpose of understanding whether or not he believes that the Bible is 100% unerring and perfect as it is inspired by a perfect being. Using the Bible for lessons is fine, but a big issue with religious texts is the belief that they are perfect and can’t be improved upon via addition or subtraction.

[@joshuatrott193]

He answered by saying I don't know

[@Youttubeuser20932]

@ after Alex followed up. And pressured him. And that’s a ridiculous answer that pretty much destroys any credibility that he has in any biological discussion such as trans issues vaccines and diet.

[@lampy4485]

@@Youttubeuser20932 JP said it himself. We cannot adequately orientate ourselves in the world merely in consequence of the facts. The question attempts to undermine the validity of the entire deep mythological enterprise. It’s clear why he can’t answer yes or no. Discrediting him in his entirety because of his choice not to provide a concrete answer to the question demonstrates your unidimensional understanding of the world.

[@Padenk011]

Hey all, just wanted to point out that a quick google search tells us that ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt were the birthplace of science. Not Europe. Just thought y’all should know!

[@Goole1947]

Quite shocking that no one said anything against science originating in Europe.

[@wintutorials2282]

I remember in my history / philosophy even math textbooks there were often statements that implied or even directly stated that certain sciences or formulas originated in Europe. I can't count the amount of times my teachers precedes these parts with "now recent research proved this to be false/this is actually not true" Now at university I get a very different image

[@criert135]

@@wintutorials2282 What? Obviously many, many (probably the vast majority) of sciences and technologies originated in Europe. That is factual. The point is that not ALL of it originated in Europe.

[@wintutorials2282]

@@criert135 ya

[@KN-ck2kd]

@criert135 Okay but JP says at 9:24 that "Science emerged in Europe and nowhere else in the entire history of humanity". It is a fact that scientific discoveries - which we can otherwise call 'science' - emerged all over the world in places outside Europe across the history of humanity. So JP is wrong here, and irresponsibly wrong, imo

[@KN-ck2kd]

Thankfully a number of people in the comments noticed this bit and have pointed it out. I agree it's terrible neither Dawkins or Alex did!

[@craizy007]

When you're being paid 6 figures a month to defend a grift but you can't do it because the interviewers are actually smart, sane people.

[@gerrardweatherlight2962]

Absolutely! The only intelligent thing from his part was how he started his grifting spree by crying in that lame video a few years ago in which he pretended to be a martyr about to be imprisoned by misgendering someone while fueled by benzos. He knew this product sells big.

[@abcdefzhij]

@@gerrardweatherlight2962 Big stoggaphels, and I am free to do so.

[@Redrgon25]

Are they smart sane people (Alex & Dawkins)? They fell into the Peterson vortex. They both allowed Peterson to take them off topic (Alex even acknowledges this, but still allowed the conversion to be changed which is what Peterson wanted as it allows him not to answer the question). The initial question was: Is the virgin birth true/did it happen scientifically?

[@danharris7190]

@@Redrgon25 yeah, JP dug his heels in. He wasn't going to answer, and he seemed very uncomfortable.

[@АлексейПлакхин]

​@@Redrgon25, Peterson answered. Yes, I don't know.

[@bobbydylanio]

Damn it! Just realised I've clicked on a video with Jordan Peterson in it. That'll be 3 months of clicking 'Not Interested' every time I go anywhere near KZbin.

[@1megawhite]

😂😁😂

[@bikebudha01]

preach....

[@chinchilla_462]

oh my god this is so relateable

[@myguykaikai]

I do the same with all JRE content. Can’t stand listening to halfwit babble.

[@ccrider3435]

You can open videos like this in a 'burner browser'... sparing your usual browser from the cancer.

[@marvinlee3332]

Peterson shows his true colors here. He won’t outright say that the virgin birth is nonsense or that religion is packed with medieval magical thinking. Instead, he dodges the is it real or is it bullshit question by shifting the focus-selling you on the “incredibly deep and valuable” meaning behind these stories. And because they’re so deep and so profound, he subtly implies that the truth doesn’t even matter. This is his way of giving religious people an easy out: don’t worry about whether it’s true, just interpret it deeply enough, and suddenly, questioning its validity becomes irrelevant.

[@andymartinez4332]

I was expecting Jordan Peterson to start tearing up

[@KeldonA]

Alex sacrificed +3000 bonus points for making JP cry because he's such a nice guy 👏👏👏👏👏.

[@stephenmartin5344]

He does that in another video where he tries to explain why he believes in Jesus

[@SupremeSquiggly]

It’s everything but a straightforward answer.

[@redmed10]

Christianity revolves around the virgin birth. See christmas. Ask any christian if they believe in the virgin birth , they will say yes or no in an instant. Its a simple question if you are a normal person. But if you are a peterson fan you will just go along with what he says.

[@lambdadelta1574]

@@duckwithsunglasses9802 He is being asked an extremely basic question. If I asked you, hey duck, did luke skywalker really exist, like biologically? you wouldn't go on a 2 mins explinaning how the story means that luke was the chosen one. You would just say no, its a fictional story. If I asked you, hey duck, did Cleopatra really exist, like biologically? you also wouldn't do that either, you would say that from the information that you have she almost certainly did exist even if it might not be exactly how we think of her. Why can't he answer the question regarding jesus being born from Mary as a virgin? its a factual question, one where he can simply state that he doesn't know, why can't he answer it? He could simply say "I do not know, but I believe it did"

[@TianYuanEX]

@@duckwithsunglasses9802 Dude you can't be serious... It's as simple as it gets, as Dawkins asked - "did a man have intercourse with Mary and produce Jesus"

[@HORNGEN4]

There are no assumptions being made in the context of the question. Someone either fkd Mary or they didn't. THAT'S IT. There's no room for nuance here AT ALL.

[@lambdadelta1574]

@@duckwithsunglasses9802 no, JP is, he is the one refusing to answer a question that is being stripped to the most basic level possible. What assumption am I making about the question being asked?

[@seangrif11]

I miss Christopher Hitchens. If he'd been part of this debate, he would've left pieces of Jordan Peterson scattered over a five-mile radius.

[@basicallybangbang]

So true! In bloody pieces!

[@j.davidtaylor2565]

"How dare you." Just kidding, I miss Hitchens too. What a great guy

[@tommiddlebrook6967]

I don't think the 'intellectual dark web' would have taken off if Christopher Hitchens hadn't passed away.

[@1984isnotamanual]

@@tommiddlebrook6967why do you say that?

[@mikelombard21]

Yeah we all love and miss Hitch. I wish we could hear his take on modern arguments. Deeply missed.

[@mgacy2957]

>Jesus' divinity is predicated on his virgin birth >"Was Jesus born of a virgin?" >"I think it's inappropriate to use a question like that to undermine the validity of the deep mythological enterprise" Huh???

[@gerrardweatherlight2962]

Wow! The dishonesty of this guy. The tone of his voice when he says "and that's a fact!" after having said one million words vehemently that don't mean anything to avoid answering a simple question. It's incredible.

[@gordonliv7363]

Which guy are you talking about? Jordan Peterson or Alex O'Connor? Or Donald Trump?

[@gerrardweatherlight2962]

@@gordonliv7363 To be honest I was referring to Jordan Peterson, but you're right, this applies equally to many public figures, especially those who make a living out of giving their opinions.

[@etyrnal]

@@gerrardweatherlight2962 is there a flaw in the question?

[@gerrardweatherlight2962]

@@etyrnal For me is a clear question with a clear answer. As long as you clarify that it's not about the mythological, poetical or religious significance, but about a biological fact, it's a simple answer: it's not possible for a human female to have a child being a virgin. Then you just explain that this is not important because it has symbolic significance or because it's a myth so scientific facts do not apply (if that's what you think).

[@etyrnal]

@@gerrardweatherlight2962 what's hilarious is people who claim to be all about the provable and the scientific , why are you even watching this video in the first place. Do you also watch debates about whether goldilocks and the bears and where the bears actually bought their furniture from? i mean, if a person is so interested in science, why waste one single precious moment of time that could be used toward REAL scientific discovery, but rotting their brain away getting mired in philosophical debates on the mystical and philosophical??

[@BlazarAzul]

One thing is to dodge and another is to dodge pompously.

[@AFTERPUPPET]

“Do you understand the question? And English? And have you ever had a normal conversation? With humans?”

[@SeekingTruth2023]

That's it.... 👍

[@Jwight1984]

Well, first you have to consider whether or not ANYONE understands the question. I mean really? And English? Boy don't get me started there. It's like, okay bucko, I speak English. Sure. But do you even know what English is? Well . . . Do you? The metaphysical substrate that embodies the term "english" is itself a great mystery. Carl Jung talks about this all of the time. And "humans" . . . Well, what are we humans but a collective of myths and fables that have explanatory power on a scale we can hardly comprehend! And it's like you want me to answer what you consider to be a very simple question such as "do I understand english?" But to fully answer that question would take me at least 40 hours.

[@Taunt61]

@@Jwight1984 Haha underrated comment. xDyou studied him well

[@mo.G_2020]

His ability to say a lot without actually saying anything is really impressive

[@SeekingTruth2023]

"...It is inappropriate to ask such a question.... it's foolish..... " 🙄😳🤷🏽🤷🏽🤷🏽 Why on earth is this an inappropriate question for him?.....

[@gonx9906]

Because he can't answer him without making a fool of himself.

[@SeekingTruth2023]

@gonx9906 Yes... I wonder... does he realize, that his answers are strange? Is he doing that on purpose? Does he notice that people are confused, when he speaks? I mean... is he doing it for money only? I get, that he thinks a lot. But his words are oftentimes so incoherent, and absurd. Is he aware of that? And if he is.... why would he still be present everywhere to spread this kind of word salad, only he understands... I am so lost, everytime I see/hear him.... 🤷🏽

[@KEvronista]

because it causes him to flounder. KEvron

[@cipollino4754]

@@SeekingTruth2023 He can't answer straight because his audience would get upset, I think. JP bats a lot for the conservative right wing team, which has a large fundamental Christian support base. Those people pay JP good money to represent their ridiculous beliefs like the virgin birth in intellectual spaces. What he uses that money for I don't know. He doesn't seem to be a vain individual to me.

[@SeekingTruth2023]

@cipollino4754 Ah, thank you. Some of that, I didn't know.

[@Youttubeuser20932]

“Did a man have intercourse with Mary to produce Jesus?” JP *thinks deeply for a way to dodge admitting that he’s an atheist* ~I don’t like the question. Then he says he doesn’t know. Which is ridiculous. If you don’t think you’re qualified to answer that question, you shouldn’t speak about trans issues, vaccines, diet, etc., which are far more complex.

[@cipollino4754]

Yes, but have you considered that top surgery might bring down the Western empire?

[@Youttubeuser20932]

@ he pretty clearly is. Just won’t admit it because it’ll turn off his Christian right wing fans

[@bensteven3091]

given that according to the christian myths mary got pregnant on the 8th of december and gave birth 2 weeks later it becomes useless to ask that question.

[@JohnJohn-cu7nk]

​@@Youttubeuser20932Clearly isn't. YOU JUST havnt been paying attention. I said he was Clearly a christian on the first day he went public about trans speach.Christians use the word Evil instead of bad, about. hunan behaviour .

[@Youttubeuser20932]

@ 1. Christian’s use the term evil because they don’t understand that there is no free will and that it’s a stupid concept. 2. Christian’s also don’t tend to call god the ultimate fictional character, like JP. ;)

[@spacemancoco]

Peterson's audience nowadays are mainly christians, and that's what his livelihood depends on. It is SOOOO obvious that he knows the answer is "no" from a literal standpoint. I truly think he thinks that he will eventually figure out a way to explain it vaguely enough to sort of assert that "it happened" in some kind of pseudo-material way that will give factual minded people an answer but not offend any of the people who pay his bills. He looks genuinely uncomfortable trying to squirm his way out of answering while still trying to sound reasonable, rational and intelligent. It's gotta be rough having to live your life that way.

[@spacemancoco]

@CosmicSkeptic-n7z sure thing, buddy ;)

[@akira_kei_]

One of Peterson's most important points in his own discourse is that if you knowingly speak what is not the truth, you will twist yourself. Seeing him squirm in his chair trying to uphold his fabulous abstractions is direct evidence that Peterson's point is correct. Someone, ideally one of his own disciples, needs to pin him down harder than Dawkins did here and force him to accept that this is what he's doing. That's because another important message that Peterson teaches is that dead wood needs to be burned off, and only then can we actually fulfill our purpose.

[@StephenBatty]

The virgin birth occurred in the metaphysical substrate of our unconscious, transient, sociolinguistic commonalities - this is INDISPUTABLE, anyone who says otherwise doesn't UNDERSTAND the complexities of truth and falsehoods.

[@alxacm7]

Bro trying to secure the bag at all costs, kinda like prosperity preacher and megachurch pastors

[@jelly.212]

​@@alxacm7he should just do that at this point 😂. He could be in a private jet plane by now

[@MrFireball619]

Damn Alex, I remember when you were talking to a screen and now look at you boi! You got a Stache’ & you’re all suited up in 4K HD talking to world renowned speakers. I’m so happy to have been able to witness your growth! May you keep growing! ❤

[@arthurtfm]

When did this happen, that we became tolerant of people who don't distinguish fact from fiction in a straightforward way? Why isn't Jordan Peterson embarrassed? Why are his followers not embarrassed? There are no children here. We can value poetry and mythology and still remember that there is an actual world to be discovered. If you don't understand that, do yourself and the world a favor and stop wasting our time.

[@Letts_prey]

JP has dug a huge hole for himself, and under genuine scrutiny has to dive into disingenuous ambiguity to attempt an exit. He’s tying himself in greater and greater knots, and it’s going to take its toll in him. It evidently is already. His blood pressure appeared to be taking him over a tipping point here.

[@arthurtfm]

@Letts_prey I completely agree. And I think he was giving signs of that already in his debates with Sam Harris. I thought he would change and admit the lack of sense of his ideas after that and slowly fade away. But no. He's worse now.

[@nelsonhernandez3259]

I read a comment where someone explains this intellectual zig-zagging that Peterson does when talking about Christianity, it goes along the lines of "he doesn't want to alienate his Christian base, but he also doesn't want to alienate his non-Christian base simultaneously. This has led him to engage in profound intellectual dishonesty". Peterson wants to identify as a Catholic but he knows that most of what the Bible says is pure metaphorical storytelling. He knows this for a scientific fact but he does not want to alienate his christian fanbase. If he does admit that the immaculate conception is false, then he'll get absolutely wrecked by his right-wing, catholic and christian fanbase; however, doing so is a net loss because left-leaning seculars wouldn't really care to accept him either way. His reputation must remain christian, so he will zig zag and flip flop as much as he needs in order to keep his christian persona. But I just know that deep down, he knows the bible and most of its stories are simply not true. As a catholic myself, I wouldn't care at all if it is discoverd that Mary was not a virgin; i wouldn't care that she had more children and Jesus had several siblings. But I don't have anything to lose by saying so. I still consider myself christian and nobody will shun me for this. Peterson and his big platform does have a lot to lose by doing this.

[@LARRYLONGSTRETH]

A good friend of mine, one of the most passionate supporters of science and fact, never left our hometown. It's now 20 years later and he (and many others) are all in on the anti-woke, "who's to say what truth really is?" kind of Jordan/Musk/Peterson train. He told me the other day that the truth doesn't matter so much. It's definitely a big cultural wave right now, this sort of "it doesn't matter". The hypocrisy lies in how angry it is at other movements it feels are straying from truth. It all makes for one chaotic mix.

[@adamcannon6331]

What do you mean by tolerate?

[@peterlee6391]

The fact that JP said it emerged out of Europe and nowhere else is literally undermining the 2 thousand years of Mathematical, Chemical and Physical discoveries made by scientists of the Indian Subcontinent, Asia-Pacific and the Middle East, many of which lay the foundation for European scientists.

[@bobguy1341]

Huzzah!

[@jasquer]

This! I literally exclaimed, "YOU WHAAAAAT NOW?!" when he said that. I might be misunderstanding something here, but as far as I know, there have been several scientific traditions over the last few thousand years.

[@dispostu2313]

@@jasquer I don't like him but I think is referring to the scientific revolution which kind of introduced the modern evidence-based method of science since these "axioms" that he is describing were developed during this time

[@jonathonrobinson6081]

Dawkins agreed with him.

[@KonoGufo]

@@jonathonrobinson6081 Then they're both undermining it?

[@FacetiousEnigma]

Only a minute in and my brain is melting. Anyone who has listened to real, genuine, intellectual conversations knows exactly what JP is doing.

[@BeefT-Sq]

"To the [mystic], emotions are tools of cognition , and wishes take precedence over facts." -Ayn Rand-

[@onioni111111]

Yes, it is called word salads to cover what one does not understand.

[@dunkawunka2278]

No Peterson is using every word correctly and he's making sense, but look at the vocabulary his opponent is using, completely baseline and sensible and not some weird pseudo-intellectual double speak.

[@FacetiousEnigma]

@@dunkawunka2278 Peterson is "making sense" but it's all extremely over-complicated and convoluted for absolutely no reason

[@justaway6901]

SINCERITY my friend. Peterson lacks that

[@josephmoya9929]

I love these conversations and think highly of all three of these gentlemen! Thank you for sharing this!

[@dinosaur52074]

JP's Wife: "Honey, what would you like for dinner tonight?" JP: "The archetype of the dinner corresponds to the mythos of metaphor of what is actually dinner, roughly speaking"

[@whatever_ba]

It depends on what you mean by Honey, and what you mean by what, and......😂😂😂

[@TheMatchReview]

what is dinner predicated on, and axiomatically the axiom of tonight, by which you mean the substrate of the previous rotation of the earth's axis ?

[@SuperEdge67]

You forgot ‘metaphysical substrate’, I’m sure that’d be in his reply somewhere.

[@Kris.G]

she probably avoids talking to him

[@michaelspeir6086]

I think somebody's going to bed hungry tonight.

[@MM-rk8sn]

No idea what black magic you pulled but the moustache has grown on me

[@d20Fitness]

I think it just filled in finally

[@canchero724]

I think you just preferred looking at it over listening to the utter waffle that was being spoken. I too spaced out at one point and started contemplating the aesthetics of the moustache instead 😂😂

[@grosbeak6130]

Congratulations on your new fetish.

[@achat77]

Shave it off

[@Hyperpandas]

Me too. I was clean shaven when I started watching the video, and now I have the same mustache now that it's over. Shouldn't be possible, but I may have passed out from a brain hemmorage once Peterson started going... what day is it?

[@illusion5342]

4:00 "I think it's inappropriate to use a question like that to attempt to undermine the validity of the entire mythological enterprise". There it is. He understands perfectly what he’s being asked, but fears that addressing it solely from a historical perspective might lead people to dismiss his mythological ideas. And indeed, people often disregard/ignore the narrative/spiritual aspects of religion when they dismiss its historical accuracy on scientific grounds. However, that doesn’t justify JP's evasive approach here; it’s blatant intellectual dishonesty. It’s his responsibility to make his case for mythology after setting aside historical accuracy, not by avoiding the question altogether.

[@NoPretending]

Well put. He doesnt want that people listening to him washes the baby out with the bathwater. Ie that they dismiss the story within the religion if the scientific parts of it are rejected. And I dont believe he trusts the common people to separate the two. And I think he care so much and that christianity is humanitys best bet. I also think he really believes that the story has to be percieved objektive reality/personified in order to make that profound motivation in peoples lives. I agree he should just straight up admit that of course Jesus didnt come from a virgin.

[@onioni111111]

Imagine using this type of response in the court when someone committed a crime. Did you murder this person? Response: "I think it's inappropriate to use a question like that to attempt to undermine the validity of my human rights".

[@eliahhouck8542]

I do not believe that he is being dishonest. It seems clear that he believes in the general spirit of what he says, even if what he says isn't usually completely clear. The reason he refuses to answer the question in this case is that he believes that a world that believes in stories which cause people to align themselves for good is better off than a world that rejects any idea not provable with solid evidence. I think he was concerned that Dawkins would take his answer of "I don't know" and use that to dismiss the value and validity of faith as a whole, claiming that JP himself admitted to it. Dawkins' goal in the conversation was to invalidate Christianity and faith, whereas JP's was to communicate that, whether faith is factual or not, it is still beneficial, and maybe even crucial, for human spirits

[@onioni111111]

@eliahhouck8542 I am sure JP is smart enough to justify for himself without your assistance.

[@bike4aday]

It's because the question implies that logos and mythos are separate when Jordan's goal is to integrate them as one. It's not dishonesty, but a complete rejection of the notion that logos and mythos are divided all together. The question itself implies something that Jordan can't agree with, so how could he give a straight answer? In essence, Jordan says, "This is where logos and mythos touch." and then Richard asks, "So is it logos or mythos?" to which Alex adds "You must understand the question you're being asked here." Yes, Alex, he understands the question, and he disagrees with what it implies, that events exist within a duality of fact or myth. He believes the only way to find absolute truth is through integration with myth where Richard and Alex believe the only way to find absolute truth through separation from myth.

[@EX0t1C]

It’s very inspiring to see you as a 25 year old conversing with some of the greatest thinkers of all time, a very good video!

[@scazscaz1348]

As a European I feel compelled to mention the Middle East contributed greatly to science and always has done, especially within mathematics. I believe the far east did as well but not to the same degree. Whether contributions have a religious element that’s up for debate, but the fact is other places besides Europe have contributed to science and they should not be overlooked

[@macdougdoug]

Before the Renaissance in Europe, a betting man might have predicted that China or the Arab world were heading for great things (science and tech wise)

[@GaryHouston-f2n]

The Mayans had astronomy and calendars that went all the way up to 2012 with accurate predictions of solar and lunar cycles. All this before Europeans were capable of doing anything similar.

[@Muongoing.97c]

Gunpowder was invented in China. The telescope in the Arabic world. The first record we have of someone suggesting that light has a finite speed is written in Arabic. Let’s go even older, why not. Does JP know where the chariot was invented? And when? I’ll give him a hint, it wasn’t in Christian Europe.

[@purplestrawberries2772]

The contributions did have religious elements, particularly during the Islamic Golden Age, which spanned from the 8th to the 14th century. That is not to say that the Abrahamic religions of the Middle East did not stifle scientific advancement. For instance, the Roman Catholic Church during the Scientific Revolution served as a retardation to science, suffocating nascent ideas that threatened its dogma. It created the _Index Librorum Prohibitorum,_ translated as “Index of Forbidden Books,” in 1559 and maintained it until 1966, banning various scientific texts, including works by Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo. Scholars who questioned dominant theological views, such as Giordano Bruno, who proposed that stars were distant suns with their own planets, were frequently persecuted, excommunicated, or even executed. Furthermore, in medieval Europe, religious beliefs about the sanctity of the human body led to a prohibition on dissection, impeding the study of human anatomy. After the Golden Age, conservative religious leaders opposed “foreign sciences” like philosophy and natural science because they were seen as “distractions” from religious knowledge. The Islamic world has been especially resistant to accepting well-established scientific theories like evolution, just as Christianity has. I could go on and on…

[@criert135]

@@GaryHouston-f2n On the other hand, the Mayans didn’t invent the wheel. Lol

[@douglasodonnell6800]

Don’t ask questions that I don’t accept?

[@SupermanOG]

Peterson obviously didn’t have any problem hitting those essay word limits !

[@drzoster]

hahaha

[@kaushikroy4041]

This is the first time I’ve seriously considered (understood partially) Jordan’s viewpoint. Alex has a gift.

[@Ascii89]

Peterson is a living case study for "word salad".

[@andrewfrey289]

You clearly don’t know what word salad is. Or you simply can’t understand his ranting. ❤

[@diggie9598]

@@andrewfrey289 Instead of engaging with the argument about Peterson's speech style, you chose to attack Ascii's knowledge and understanding. #ad-hominem There are more possibilities than either not knowing what "word salad" is or failing to understand Peterson. #false dilemma You and your logical fallacies don't seem to be qualified.

[@ECB1990]

​@@duckwithsunglasses9802 I really hope you're a young teenager, or a troll. Everyone hears him, and he still says nothing. It's his main defence mechanism when he knows he looks incredibly stupid.

[@onioni111111]

​@@andrewfrey289You clearly do not understand English.

[@Jwight1984]

Now imagine JP giving the same type of response when asked about whether he believes vampires are real after reading Dracula. He would sound ridiculous. Because it IS ridiculous.

[@cipollino4754]

No, he would say that vampires are hyper-real.

[@OmniversalInsect]

It would sound ridiculous and would upset his Christian audience, conflating their religion with fiction. So he avoids it at all costs.

[@danielmewes]

He's literally giving this kind of response about dragons being real at another point in this interview (not part of this video). You can't make this stuff up...

[@flavioagostini153]

I think Jung would be ashamed of this guy honestly. If you listen to Jung talk he's so collected and to the point. Even if he's the one that came up with the concepts that mr peterson rumbles about he doesn't feel the need to say things in a complicated way. I think Peterson is just intellectually dishonest at this point

[@TheRealHerbaSchmurba]

Ive read alot of Jung. He is anything but to the point lmao. Jung is perhaps the most metaphorical writer I have ever read.

[@christopherwood5068]

@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba I've only read a few works of his (Jung), so it entirely plausible I've simply encountered only the content that is consistent with my proceeding characterisation , but I feel like a lot his work is succinct, if you unpack in a subsequential manner. I feel like much of his writing only has coherence within his self generated frameworks, which consequently generates terms which are self defining, he seems to rely on limited references from other areas i.e myths, frued etc. Please, help me understand if I'm wrong here, but I feel alot of the metaphorical aspects of this work (once again limited by what I've read) relates to the personal process of individuation which relies on the use of personal symbols and metaphors to represents unconscious processes for example.

[@risenfromruin]

You're right. The guy above doesn't understand what he's talking about. ​@@christopherwood5068

[@flavioagostini153]

@@TheRealHerbaSchmurba he can be metaphorical, but when he does so you can clearly understand what is that he's saying. Jordan feels a lot to me like he's bullshitting to get himself out of difficult questions. Anyways I was also refferring to the way Jung talks, that I've recently seen on interviews published here in yt. He replies to the questions very concisively and effectively in my hopinion... When asked if he believed in god he literally replied with one phrase. JP would have said something like: it depends on what you mean by "believe" and on how you define "god", then give a 5 minutes word salad sermon on Jesus and archetypes

[@santacruzman]

​@@TheRealHerbaSchmurbaHe also said "if you listen..." and not, "if you read..." I think he was referencing filmed or audio recordings of Jung. At any rate, he is correct regarding the spoken word and this is an absurd objection to begin with, i.e., who gives rat's ass if _you_ happened to find his writing to be . . . otherwise?

[@flippgoofman1868]

Outstanding conversation. Wish there were more like this online.

[@Berliozioz]

As Robert Heinlein put it, "Obscurity is usually the refuge of incompetence." Peterson is so totally and utterly incompetent.

[@whirlwhind666]

I think it’s the refuge of dishonesty

[@ZuziFox]

wtf is Petereson saying, i lost his train of thoughts 1:30 in ..... Dawkins asks "do you know the virgin part was mistranslated" and then Peterson goes on rant that has nothing to do with it? or am I dumb?

[@jacobcasey28]

He’s saying it’s so deep that it can’t be answered

[@gThomasHagg]

He doesn't want to think about it. He just wants to have a faith. If he thinks about it as if it happened or not, he loses the mystique and the spell it carries over him. Since he lacks a fully integrated philosophy, that would be too painful for his character to accept. So he rationalizes from there.

[@gThomasHagg]

Another, much cruder but accurate way of putting it, would be that he lacks self confidence. Proper "Self Esteem" . A concept, which he has openly rejected.

[@mariorodriguez46]

Must be on drugs

[@oldmanSturzl]

If you play that part back where he stutters at the beginning, he clearly says, "I'm an idiot."

[@Paine137]

Peterson consistently spends more time talking about talking about it than actually talking about it.

[@twomangotrees1669]

Jordan: "How can I dodge this question so that I don't have to admit I'm wrong"

[@GrubKiller436]

As an atheist myself, isn't it disturbing that we can't allow others to believe in their own religions?

[@nefaristo]

"what is a woman? Also, was jesus born from a virgin?" "I don't know, I'm not a biologist". That's why Peterson hates postmodernism: it's competition in the religion/word salad field.

[@josephking1947]

Pseudo intellectuals are hardly competition,

[@aarn4v]

9:21 Science emerged only in Europe? Seriously?

[@troyeswan690]

Yes

[@zMustyz]

Not just only in Europe, but after Christianity. 🙃 Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece and Ancient Mesopotamian contributions to math, medicine and astronomy? Nah that doesn't count.

[@Kurtofon]

​@@zMustyz I think he specifically meant the scientific method, there was science before but not this deliberate investigative method, and system for doing research.

[@Kurtofon]

@@taj9284 Not really you can say that what people did before the scientific method was scientific, it was close to or on track to be what we call science today, and Plato was probably the closest before the scientific method as a set of "rules of conduct" if you will was invented, and the west is the first place where you could be closest to pursue uncomfortable truths regardless of whose feelings you hurt, which is essential for conducting real science. Today in many fields it's reduced to follow the science and trust the science, which is the the least scientific things you can say.

[@Kaffikjelen]

Yes. Mention any of the great scientists and scientific theories and you're left with something that's historically and geographically restricted to post 15th century Europe. Most of early modern science was fundamentally based in a Christian worldview, for instance the notion that the cosmos is basically like a book from God that we can read with the proper methods.

[@IXOY3007]

Peterson is such a weasel. I feel like I couldn’t be intellectually honest with myself if I pretended to take him seriously

[@Arguments_only]

for that amount of money? I could. Being a weasel (ability to maneuver and escape) like media propagandists, politicians is a talent. Virtuous from egotistical point of view which is all that matters to the individual himself. But yes he has a tendency weasel out of debates and questions that HE knows would cause him lose, lose face with his audience, which is smart in terms of his will to make money. He is not a dumb guy, but he is a blatant propagandist hack, pseudointellectual. There is much better sources for learning philosophy.

[@Arguments_only]

@bengeurden1272 He knows and he acts like this because its in his perceived interest like we all do. Dishonesty can be a virtue and often is.

[@moonbalancedd]

As someone who comes from a non-Western background who's looked at Christianity for the first time I would say it is completely silly in its entirety, from head to toe. It doesn't withstand 5 minutes of scrutiny and reason. Such a childish thing could only exist because of indoctrination and need for a consistent identity in one's life.

[@joakimkampe3055]

Richard Dawkins 🌟 It’s feels really really good to hear your clear and crisp thoughts and responses to Jordan. You are absolutely amazing Richard!

[@ian9372]

I love how he blames declining religiosity for science being under attack when it's religious people who are constantly trying to undermine and contradict scientific progress.

[@KN-ck2kd]

100% agree. By the end of the clip, JP is far less word salad-y and actually speaks quite lucidly about the attack on scientific progress underway at universities. This I think is the issue he really cares about. He dislikes woke university culture and all the Jungian filibustering is a just a means to elevate his anti-wokeness to something more unique/cool/intellectual. I think, at least 🤷

[@stateazure]

Dawkins: 'So, do you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin?' Peterson: 'Well, the virgin birth-axiomatically, it’s a polyphiloprogenitive, consanguineous metaphor, predicated upon ambivalent, metaphysical structures within our idiomatic consciousness. To "believe" is both interogative and perspicaciously equivocal, a bi-lateral oscillation of granular archetypes, where the mellifluous and idiosyncratic coalesce uneasily, if unequivocally, in a profoundly consanguineous narrative framework.' Dawkins: 'Fine. But which was your favourite Teletubby?'

[@cheecheneg]

Have you ever watched the turboencabulator video? I think you'd like it!

[@stateazure]

@@cheecheneg 🤣 haha thanks man, I just watched it and it's hilarious!!

[@cheecheneg]

@@stateazure Always happy to spread the joy :)

[@RastafariMori]

HAHAHAHAHA

[@eugenepanneton6505]

you are right … Jordan Peterson profoundly disappointed me in his total denial of simple facts … Mr Dawkins deserves total respect and one way to do this in a dialogue with him is by being Honest … Peterson got exposed !!

[@Ryan-eu3kp]

I am so happy i was raised in a non religious household. We never talked about religion once, had a great childhood. Thank god

[@whoisWAZz]

How to answer with a non-answer

[@CarlFredrik-uo1cu]

Jordan Peterson is the biggest postmodernist in the world

[@jonathanstewart7838]

postmodernist isn't the word I would use.

[@macdougdoug]

@@jonathanstewart7838 Post-truth? Post-fact?

[@jonathanstewart7838]

@@macdougdoug it would be crude and satirical as Jordan isn’t a serious person

[@mikefoster6018]

And yet Peterson also likes (liked?) Stephen Hicks, author of Explaining Postmodernism. A book that essentially delivers the (I guess skewed, but mildly interesting) argument that Marxist predictions kept failing so annoying postmodernist students etc welcomed anti-authority anti-reason into the everyday as an alternative worldview to tear down the powerful.

[@clorofilaazul]

I wrote a comment saying exactly the same thing.

[@patobrien235]

Jordan, ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS

[@raneenah3240]

​@@duckwithsunglasses980211 minutes of pulling teeth

[@DefenestrateYourself]

@@duckwithsunglasses9802 Imagine believing his word salad is equivalent to an actual answer 😂

[@reebee7641]

As a Canadian, Peterson has been consumed by his insanity. 🇨🇦✌

[@jonnyappleseed8068]

I think he wants to say he doesn’t actually believe it, happened, but that would kind of tear holes in the “tale” and he wants to keep that intact cause of the perceived value in it.

[@bersabersaber]

yup-. I kinda like his approach I thinks at least is more interesting or richer than just to say " thats impossible that didn't happen bla bla bla " . And I'm not even a believer but we can't deny the impact of the bible and monoteistics religions can we? so why don't we try to see past the point of "did that really happen?"

[@HanifCarroll]

I don't think that's what's happening. He's spent hours and hours across interviews and lectures explaining to people the value of telling the truth. These characterizations make him out to be a grifter that just keeps getting caught, but that just doesn't seem right.

[@user-vo4wc2jz8g]

Jordan, what is your favourite colour? Fish banana ladder soup, bandage frisbee chicken nugget. Backflip cheese.

[@philwatts]

"That would depend on your personal definition of what colour is in your own individual reality."

[@satpujji]

firstsly what do you mean by colour? and what do you mean by favourite, and your?

[@loudenlaffnite246]

@@philwatts For someone who hates postmodern relativists, he really has become quite the... postmodern relativist.

[@hopa-ys2bc]

That backflip cheese metaphysical subtrate 😂

[@BroWithTheFro]

"These questions, which are valid, aren't important!" Yeah, you lost with that one, Mr. Peterson

[@dodumichalcevski]

How can a so brilliant Person talk so much nonsense.... Religion is Dangerous for any mind

[@madras1]

A question can be logical to ask yet not significant in terms of what you’re trying your debate, that’s fair, what he’s wrong about is the questions being unimportant

[@GaryHouston-f2n]

@dodumichalcevski he was never brilliant, it just took a while for us to see who he really is.

[@dodumichalcevski]

@@GaryHouston-f2n He is still brilliant

[@ang3latos]

I love both these guys for such different reasons. Dawkins is metaphysics and Peterson is epistemology. Dawkins cemented my atheism when I read Selfish Gene in college and provided the scientific reasoning I didn’t have for my latent atheism. Peterson (earlier stuff) was asking questions I’d never even considered about reality & myth, and humbled my arrogant know-it-all self - also bridged me toward being more conservative and understanding the problems with group identity politics from a historical standpoint.

[@a.h.5966]

Same! Glad to find another person who feels the same way! However, JP is failing hard in this particular one interview! While his whole "life as a story" perspective is fascinating but it has some major flaws and Dawkins tried to point those out in futility

[@a.h.5966]

just to clarify a bit more, I am one of those atheists (now I don't like that word because it makes me feel like a "believer" of the other spectrum, which i am not! i dont believe anything, I only accept that is factual and backed by proper scientific methods. You cant produce a "journal" from air and make me accept it. Because anything can be researched and anything can be pushed) who find reasons of why religion was introduced and why it is here to last till the end of humanity. Not only that, religion can also turn into something different just like what we are observing these days as wokism/T-genderism.

[@joearrowsmith6813]

The issue with Peterson is that he’s reached a position where he’s recognised as a leading ‘thinker’ or intellectual, when in reality he’s a well-versed psychologist.

[@jackforseti224]

he thinks he is a genius but is only intelligent in one area

[@kian.bridge]

mythology ≠ psychology

[@jonnythepartisan]

He's Kent Hovind 2.0, a modern apologist.

[@noeldown1952]

Whatever good there is in JP's psychology is uplifted straight from M. Scott Peck. Grab "The road less travelled" - that's Peterson in a nutshell, but written 50 years ago.

[@TimRobertsen]

3:21 - "You must understand what you're being asked here" Brutal:)

[@Bickle121]

The silence from Peterson when they both finally ask him straight up without any room to evade is deafening

[@ijansk]

He needs to articulate his words better. I had a hard time getting that he was actually saying "understand".

[@jimv1983]

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone work so hard at avoiding a question. He's like a politician.

[@KennyDagger]

What a great time to be alive, debate of this quality at my fingertips 🎉

[@Tomismyusername]

I just need to applaud Alex here. Incredible mediation. So articulate.

[@luna-p]

If he ever wants to be a kindergarten teacher, he can bring this video to the interview.

[@mattfoley6082]

I don't care if it's real; isn't it a great story? --Jordan Peterson doing The Weave

[@ahmetnergiz6038]

This is the most backed into a corner I've ever seen JP. The usual tactics of dodging questions with "I don't know"s, questioning the validity of the question, or using "what about this other thing that is irrelevant to our debate" responses didn't work for him this time. He’s committed every fallacy you can make in a debate in just a couple of minutes lol. You’ve done a great job clarifying what’s being asked and continuously bringing him back to the actual conversation.

[@JorgeFCR2502]

Richard, I sincerely admire your patience.

[@Mike_Regan]

Never heard Peterson struggle and stumble like this. Funny how that happens when he's confronted by well educated people.

[@riverjustice]

Stumble? This is not a confrontation, but a conversation. Jordan gets hung up on a lot of questions in other interviews when he can’t answer the question. This is common. Either way, I’m not interested in poking someone’s inability to articulate, but rather the content of what’s being said.

[@tobygray497]

He should stick to clinical psychology...

[@tullberg87]

Listen to an old podcast with him and Sam Harris. They can't even get past what truth is.

[@Mike_Regan]

@tullberg87 Well, Sam can. Peterson does his best to obscure ANY definition.

[@luna-p]

​@@tobygray497 He shouldn't do that either. Coma seems to suit him.

[@jezuswizardspatula5804]

Borden Peterson has gone completely nuts here. Ooh dam😬🙄

[@Erlaxis]

Jordan has clear an direct answers for so many things, but as soon as he gets challenged on things he doesn't have a hope of defending, everything is so deep and complex and says to have disagreements on so many levels that it is utterly impossible to even articulate an answer.

[@Anne_Onymous]

Alex, you did a great job. Very interesting discussion!

[@richardb1949]

Poor Jordy he is pathetically lost and bewildered !

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

1:00 Before I admit that I don't know, let me show you how I fill this balloon with the hot air of my words to send it to the heavens...

[@Bori.1776]

I find it inappropriate to not answer a straightforward question.

[@happytree789]

as an indian scientist, watching two old white men agree that science emerged in europe is really upsetting

[@dmob881]

Yes. I don't know what's worse... making the ridiculous claim or letting it go unchecked!