Why Dark Elves are a Hated Race - Total War: Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires

Dark Elves aren't well liked by a significant portion of the community despite all their strengths in campaign and battle.
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[@CacneaMain]

I'm on board with DEs being a more fun in WH3 than WH2 and not really "needing" a rework. But if they ever get their DLC (everyone assumed they would be featured in the Slaanesh DLC on the roadmap, but at this point idk if that's ever gonna come out) here are some things I would like: More campaign variety like Malekith getting quests to become Phoenix King (or uniting ALL elves Including the WEs), Morathi getting Special/Marked units, Hellebrons mechanic getting a complete overhaul (maybe she could get something similar to Khornes bloodletting instead) etc. New Units: maybe some high Tier Witch elf stuff would be cool or expanding on their Chariots/Cavalry. The Tech Tree just needs to go. It's one of those Remnants of the old games (not quite as bad as the old dwarf one but similar).

[@via_negativa6183]

Dark elves are actually my favourite race, I never thought they were not powerful the mechanics and start positions are simply boring, especially malekith..

[@OniGanon]

With the current slave system, I've found it's fairly easy to stay positive on number of slaves due to the reversal of ports becoming slave generating buildings instead of consuming. Use skaven tunnel building in minor settlement and blackguard building in major settlement to control public order instead of the actual public order building, use diktats and build-rushing to burn through excess slaves so that you always stay

[@charleshixon3558]

Uhm… Supreme Sorceresses get Black Dragons too… The Reason the Dreadlords are often picked is because it’s easier to focus on their blue line first whereas you need to level the sorceresses magic first. DE blue line is extremely good.

[@charleshixon3558]

My favorite faction. I love sending out a Black Ark to some far corner of the map to either expand or just to sack and raid. After I learned how to play DE correctly, every other faction felt so constrained, slow and boring.

[@lberghaus]

I wish there was a Dark Elf campaign that started off invading Ulthuan.

[@benjaminsorensen9334]

I think a lot of the hate for the slave system is residual from how terrible it was at the start of IE. Once it was reworked, it became manageable.

[@via_negativa6183]

Its still bad the diktat system in particular.

[@vacrovic]

It's because they got rid of the old system rather than fix it (i.e. get rid of the stackable hero bonuses) for questionable reasons, only to turn around and give an improved version to the new Chaos Dwarves. Same thing with taking High Elf perks away only to give them to Yuan Bo later to make him more interesting. They could have kept both systems in place and still given the new toys the same mechanics; there is enough to differentiate Dark Elves/Chaos Dwarf gameplay even if the slave/labor system is similar. Taking away something only to give to something else is foolish; when I first heard about the changes I swore I would never buy the Chaos Dwarves if they turned out to have a repackaged improved slave system. It's a shame too; I was looking forward to them before this nonsense.

[@CarminesStar]

​@@vacrovic Precisely this. It always left a bad taste in my mouth how they took the slave mechanics from the Dark Elves and just gave it to the Chaos Dwarfs In a damn DLC. Their current system is so inferior and still has its problems with even the 'updates'. Dark Elves were my favorite faction but I haven't touched them unless I have a mod that reworks their economy

[@BittermanAndy]

A faction's single most distinguishing feature being "manageable" is plenty of reason to hate it.

[@benjaminsorensen9334]

@@BittermanAndy I'm not certain when we switched the conversation to black arks, which are the Dark Elves' single most distinguishing feature.

[@joelewis9349]

Dark elves are my favorite. But I would change the rng names of power mechanic. I would give Morathi tech and skills to buff daemonettes. And also I would convert the bloodwrack medusa into a hero character with skills similar to dwarf/human engineers.

[@OnlyDeathIsEternal]

I think their main problem is that they are in need of a rework. Same with Bretonnia, High Elves, Lizardmen, Norsca and Vampire Counts/Coast to bring them up to par with the Warhammer 3 races and the recently reworked factions. They lack interesting mechanics similar to what Karl Franz, Elseph, Gelt and the Dwarfs got in the recent update. Morathi should be a half-Slaneeshi faction atleast.

[@sieglindeeilserv8799]

My favorite faction is Hellebron, and even with the death night mechanic I'll have over 50k slaves by turn 100. Running out of slaves means you did not invest in slave pens or capture many ports. You eventually get to a point you are actually gaining slaves per turn naturally.

[@Insideoutcest]

that "point" is like turn 5 dude

[@largamau]

Same. This is the only dark elf faction I liked.

[@danielrullmann5131]

i really love the lore idea of Dark Elves but what i find in game strays way too far from my imagination of how they should play, have content-wise and look ... so unless big rework happens i usually ignore them sadly

[@glendaal67]

Playing tall is not playing passive by any means. As Dark Elves WH2 version especially, you needed to guarantee constant flow of slaves and that's impossible if you are playing passive. The problem with dark elves in WH3 is that they lost all of their uniqueness apart from black arks. And even black arks feel less unique now because they feel less raiding fleet and more like just mobile recruitment hub. Dark elves should be about raiding for slaves, and that could be achieved in the game with different kind of mechanics. Just like some other races are more about sacking settlements, so should be dark elves

[@Costin_Gaming]

Sure fair enough.

[@rtristan8572]

Bring back old slave mechanics, remove rng from names of power, make black ark army abilities worth it, give malekith he units if ulthuan is conquered, make the generic lords more distinct, make malus not a rakarth before rakarth. Probably more things but I can' think of them rn. Eitherway I actually like DE.

[@tobydorman3998]

agree with all of this

[@charleshixon3558]

I like the current slave system. I could see a better hybrid system similar to how chaos dwarves are now. It’s just much more interactive.

[@Thedefenses]

Har ganeth executioners are tier 4 for all other dark elves other than Morathi, also same goes for assassins being tier 3 instead of 4, honestly morathi seems to have some... intresting choices for buildings and what tiers she get´s stuff. Dark Elves really only need 3 things, make the rites cooldowns faster or make them matter more, give all the legendary lords a check up, some are decent and some could do with a bit more helping and lastly, just more monsters or make the ones we have easier to recruit, recruiting a High Beastmaster when the first unit he helps come at tier 3, have been split into 3 different building tiers and the best thing he gives them is faster recruitment so your really not using him to boost those units, your leveling him up to recruit them faster for his arm feels like shit, i went a whole campaing as Rakarth mostly only using them and the only reason they had any beasts to boost was his faction mechanic and even those boosts were limited to their Whiplash ability which is... not that good for most of them. The current slave system has problems, like the diktats cost not being reduced by the slave building even though it says it does that, its still a better system than the warhammer 2 "fill one province and just boost that one to high heavens" slave system that got real boring REAL fast, every campaign you could from the start see either your starting province or one next to it and decide "your my money maker" and forget sending slaves anywhere but there, it was a really powerful system but good lord was it one note.

[@olafthemoose9413]

Idc if I get stuff later with morathi. Her corruption is so god damn OP. Getting "free" public order and free slaves is just so nice. And she's also an incredibly powerful caster AND has a great starting position (bonus points for being close to Yuan Boo)

[@sandsundertail6936]

Played DE as my main in tww2, I do it in tww3 too and I have to say its much more enjoyable than before and as a race it's in a very good state campaignwise especially with envoy followers making influence look like a joke (especially when with the amounts of money DE can earn you can easily convince other factions to break treaties and join wars against their allies) and Black Arks are great for buffs, bombardments, recruitment and protecting cities, because for some reason AI ignores black ark armies in the garrisons and likes to send their armies for certain deaths. The only thing lacking are units, because as long as crossbows are awesome if not outranged, it would be better if black guards and executioners were recruitable in 1 turn, because it would fit better for rush raiders faction even if they would be just fancy meat shields

[@sebastian4645]

Favourite race to be honest, but a rebalance of units and a rework besides the slave system would be appreciated but they're not 'needing it'. They kick ass still overall.

[@NagashLordOfDeath]

Dark elves are fun to play and are in a better place than races. Their slave economy is fine. You can get loads of slave income and the instant building spending slaves is amazing. They just need a freshen up to make the LLs more unique mechacially. Give lokhir the vampirate mechanics so he can have ship building and even let him do the infamy race. Give ralarth the norsca monater hunts(if the ever get fixed). Give malekith the choice to be eternity king or if you want go full emo option and destroy ulthuan. Give malus themed dilemas based on his novels. Give morathi the intrigue mechanic as shes all about scheming. Give hellebron the sotek sacrafice mechanic based around khaine.

[@milansvancara]

I really hate the slave system, it's just a boring chore rather than feature The only lord mechanics I like is Lothar but I really don't like corsairs either it's also just a boring unit:( It's a shame because I really want to like them

[@Defsnot_Momskowerkor]

You nailed it in your race tier list, Dark Elves are S tier. I like them sooo much better in WH3. Only critique is in the lore they had all lores of magic like the High Elves. Rakarth is cool cuz he can get revive crystals from lizardmen and has best climate options. Lokhir is sooo much better with IE Expanded mod to open Cathay. Nakai doesn't auto attack him

[@jamesespinosa690]

Just started a Lokhir campaign with the extended map mod, and it's been a lot of fun!!

[@anon-zk6iz]

I play Malekith or Morathi with all climate suitable.

[@ethangates2496]

I miss the old slave system, it felt way more dynamic than the current wait five turns press a button, also a slave market to spend slaves as a currency would be a welcome feature

[@Pyromaniac77777]

They are beloved by many! Allow me to re-introduce myself, I’m many

[@kajolet]

Because people didn't want the system to be change (yes it needed to be nerf just like the HE) , but having control where the slave were put was love . And nation malus is not love

[@kajolet]

maybe they could have keep it for rakarth. I think you forgot that many person get in total war warhammer late ( i get everything at the grom the paunch dlc) many player have not play at the starting of mortal empire . You forgot that player are not as cheesy or successful in battle as you or legend)

[@charleshixon3558]

Raiding is not useless. You can easily get more slaves from raiding than battles. Also, it’s the best ambush bait.

[@09calz]

Iv still got a screenshot of my old lokhir campaign making 154k per turn from Tor Yresse province alone. My bugbear has always been that he should be his own black ark and function like a vamp coast lord. Crone and Malus Iv never made it past turn 20 I dislike campaign mechanics with a negative effect. Morathi was tied with Vlad as being my favourite lord in WH2

[@magnussthered]

I was watching this as I recruited a high beast master lord to see how good they are..

[@Matt-wm1bf]

I hate the dark elves but lokir is one of my top 3 campaigns

[@MarineCARMINE]

I wish morathi had a mechanic and they had a good arti unit. Elves have terrible artillery imo. I love to play DE(only morathi and hellebron). More units would be great for DE.

[@olafthemoose9413]

Meduses are now pretty good but they're not traditional artillery.

[@MarineCARMINE]

@@olafthemoose9413 Yeah, I like medusas.

[@emrysmyridden]

the issues boil down to quality vs quantity and in this game quantity is better. if you build millitary buildings you are slowing down your progress toward fielding the next army, and it seems stupid because the low tier army you have works fine so why not focus on your economy to get another army instead of having just one slightly better one.

[@efsanemuhendis]

I dislike dark elves because I cant use their missiles they have very short range and melee infantry just cant deal with difficulty bonuses of the AI

[@ironcenturion31]

Meanwhile they are my favorite race by far.

[@SkullivanBones]

because they're fukken BS to fight in game xP disclaimer, all of my opinions on them are built out of spite. lol

[@anthonymichael1259]

To be honest I never really liked them. I think it's more just I don't like slavers all that much in general. Don't even care for chaos dwarfs all that much ^^

[@artuspasserin663]

For me it is the slave system. That I do not like.

[@BittermanAndy]

I love DEs in lore and in battle, but their campaign objectives are obscenely boring, and the LL mechanics are so uninteresting compared to those of other factions. And don't get me started on the tech tree - an absolute joke.

[@TheUrobolos]

The faction itself just need some tweaks and boons. It's the flavour of the LLs that need more. Malekith should be the DE Karl Franz for example, and Morathi could use some more Slaaneshi stuff, like maybe replacing the Khaine priestess heroin (The cult is openly against the traditional druchii deities) with the elven cultist of Slaanesh.

[@BBNBLu3Smurf]

I love them but facing them sucks ass lol

[@Vietnam_Chr0nicles]

My entire KZbin started as a multiplayer Dark elf main doing guides and beating ranked 1 on ladder. Now I live in Vietnam and dedicate my travel to traveling the world

[@russ2120]

Never played a dark elves campaign; sorry I'm not a cringe edgelord.

[@JustKai615]

I love the Dark Elves, who ever hate them is a Dwarf lover, so probably short and fat in real life just like the dwarves.

[@glendaal67]

Dark elves were one of my top 3 races in WH2. After atrocity CA did to them they are just lame