Could A Single Modern US Destroyer Have Won The 1944 Battle Off Samar? (Naval Battle 103) | DCS

[@Butter_Warrior99]

Could a modern carrier strike group save Pearl Harbor?

[@grimreapers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZDce6iGndtgnbc

[@Butter_Warrior99]

@@grimreapers, Yey!

[@Cryptic141]

Can modern japanese carrier + musashi take the W for the battle of leyte gulf?

[@sid2112]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6TGnnl3rdOKiLc

[@MrCcragg27]

no. every part of every ship would be half broke down before going back in time. after the time travel. they would all automatically sink due to being modern.

[@jrwalker591]

U.S.S. Samual B. Roberts. The Destroyer Escort that fought like a battleship. U.S.S. Johnston. The Destroyer that fought like a fleet. Such incredible bravery and sacrifice. May they never be forgotten. U.S.S Johnston, Cmdr. Ernest Evans, Taffy 3, (posthumously received the Medal of Honor) for his actions during the Battle off Samar.

[@TheRealNSA]

My great uncle served on the Roberts when it was sunk, he was a cook and he spent 2 days and 2 nights in the water, all he could hear were the screams from the shark attacks in the night. Rest In Peace old sailor.

[@altPastaTits]

@@TheRealNSA god damn 😳 if you know of a good documentary on that, i’d love to watch it

[@altPastaTits]

what is ‘Taffy 3’?

[@TheRealNSA]

@@altPastaTits the task group

[@TheRealNSA]

@@altPastaTits The KZbin channel Yarnhub has 2 good videos, the battle off Samar and the USS Johnston

[@sacredwolf8424]

If anyone wants to learn more about the actual battle, I highly recommend Last Stand of the Tincan Sailors. It is available in book, audiobook, and graphic novel forms.

[@mattseller148]

I agree, it's one of the best WW2 naval books you can get

[@MoA-Reload...]

I'd also recommend Drachinifel right here on YT. His channel is dedicated to Naval history and his video on Taffy 3 is really well done.

[@grimreapers]

thx

[@dawnfallon6812]

@@MoA-Reload... "...Running is boring..." Drachinifel's video on the subject is exceptional. _Johnston_ came off as a force of nature. The comments section of that video is also worth the read.

[@vinnynj78]

I had the privilege of receiving y copy of that book from a Pearl Harbor survivor

[@MoA-Reload...]

Yamato on her own displaced more than the whole of Taffy 3. Also one of the reasons they lasted as long as they did is the Japanese were convinced they must be facing heavier Fleet units so had AP loaded in their main guns. Because of the lack of armour on the Destroyers and the destroyer escorts the AP rounds were punching right through them instead of detonating in them. Really well done war game. That was a lot of fun to see play out. I highly recommend Drachinifel here on YT btw. His video on Taffy 3 is really well made and he has loads more Naval history

[@johnlarue2248]

Great post folks. My dad was a Navy Pilot aboard the U.S.S. Kitkun Bay with Taffy 3. Incredible David and Goliath situation. And yes, he survived the battle.

[@flyboy6392]

Could you just imagine the psychological effect of just the ASM's from so far out they can't even SEE the Destroyer? Then add in the torpedo attacks, and the choppers with anti-shipping missiles as well, you wouldn't even have to kill the battleships to gain a victory.

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

If the Japanese had been led by one of their other commanders they might have not turned away until they were all destroyed. Some of them had the whole "Death before Dishonour" bug good and proper.

[@cocory5291]

You'd think theyd be aliens.

[@haroldbenton979]

The Japanese commander seeing his entire escort getting decimated before he could even see a ship would be going we can't afford to lose these few ships we have left. Turn around and run.

[@MrSGL21]

@@haroldbenton979 Kurita in real life had already lost Musashi and 2 cruisers the day before. in the opening hour Taffy 3 knocked out 2 more cruisers with torpedos, both sank, and 2 cruisers dropped out of the fight to assist their stricken sisters. One cruiser got disabled, allegedly by the 5 in gun crew of White Plains, and air planes came in later and torped them. Kurita ran after sinking 2 destroyers, a destroyer escort and one escort carrier but loosing 2 cruisers in doing so. Kamikazes got the the other carrier later in the day.

[@collinwood6573]

@@MrSGL21center force was severely weakened over 3 separate engagements. They started out with 5 battleships, 10 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, and 15 destroyers all in good condition. By the end of the battle, they were left with 4 battleships 2 of which were damaged, 3 damaged heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, and 11 destroyers one of which was damaged.

[@Boxmediaphile]

Never forget USS Johnston

[@robint9803]

Ocean gate 2.0 anyone😅

[@Clank_Clank_Im_a_tank]

Long live Samuel B!!!!!

[@waynesworldofsci-tech]

Drachinifel’s video on the battle is amazing, if you haven’t seen it check it out.

[@mm3mm3]

What is the miss-fire rate for the American missiles?

[@markstott6689]

​@johnblankenship4510 Never forget the Sammie B.

[@McAllisterCo]

This is the problem with hit points. All three of those Yamato’s would be reefs after taking that much fire but unfortunately the game says nope you need 173 hellfires precisely to sink a Yamato. In fact 1 hellfire through the bridge would turn that ship into a floating coffin. Fun concept though just sucks dcs damage model isn’t ready for it.

[@dirtdevil70]

How would a hellfire to the bridge take out a bb? I’ll all likelihood the bridge wouldn’t even be occupied in battle, the important folks would be inside the armoured citadel…

[@nicolivoldkif9096]

​@dirtdevil70 not quite, but you are correct that a bridge hit is not going to put a WWII military ship out of the action. Those ships were designed to be able to lose the bridge and still stay in the fight.

[@GageEakins]

@@nicolivoldkif9096 Yes however, those guns would be dead after multiple hits from guided missiles.

[@nicolivoldkif9096]

@GageEakins assuming they are hit. Even as good as modern missiles are, knocking out a BB turret is no simple thing of just hitting the ship anywhere. I'm not saying that the ships wouldn't start facing a serious degradation of fire, they would including losses of main turrets. Just that a bridge hit doesn't just kill a BB. Bridges got hit in WWII, and the ships still fought; for example, the Kongo-class during their first run on Guadalcanal. Ironically, hitting the center superstructure of the Japanese ships would probably improve their ships' combat effectiveness by ridding it from the weight of their borderline useless AA, because unlike these mods, their AA was absolute crap bar the 100mm.

[@razersedge2273]

@@GageEakins in-fact hitting the turret may potentially touch off the magazine if it does penetrate. Which would potentially be enough to take out the whole ship.

[@hephaestus4587]

These "What If" battles are fantastic. It really shows the peogression of weaponry. I alao very much enjoy the Landing Skills streams, Any chance of a Helicopter one soon? Havent seen one for a while.

[@trevorday7923]

And it's also deeply impressive that the USS Johnston managed to effectively manoeuvre and fight so effectively while weighted down by the captain's and crew's absolutely TITANIC balls

[@Davros-vi4qg]

Sock gets it, CAP oblivious, ‘I’d intercept me!’ 😂

[@hmmjedi]

Yamato coming over the horizon is the moment you realise you need a good old 90's TASM setup in the VLS... or the newer Block V Tomahawks...

[@bill5982]

You might try it with competent helicopter pilots. In addition to the Yamato, the other battleships consisted of the Nagato (about equivalent to the North Carolina class) and 2 Kongo class (upgraded WW-I battlecruisers) which were significantly weaker.

[@KevinD-wn7pd]

Thank you Grim Reapers. You are a great source of entertainment! Keep up the great work!

[@dtm6190]

If you would fly the helicopters behind the enemy fleet (or slightly to the side due to the smoke) that is traveling at 30 knots you can fly at 30 knots at maximum range and shoot all your missiles and never get within range of the enemy. Fight with helicopters like helicopters and not like supersonic jets. As long as your stay above translational lift you can fly fairly slowly with a fully loaded helicopter. Fight smart not hard. 24 years of AH-64 experience.

[@scottmanthey3549]

Exactly!

[@ltjjenkins]

Awesome. Told like a leader.

[@corvanphoenix]

The computer doesn't know it can't see you through the smoke, so it's flack can find you just fine 😂

[@TR4Ajim]

One thing that’s not realistic is, after the first few hits on Yamato, Kurita would have turned the force around and ran!!

[@miketranfaglia3986]

Why no Harpoons? Thought those were standard equipment on all US destroyers until very recently; helos should also have Penguins, as noted below. And Mk 50 ASW torpedo can very definitely be used against surface targets; small warhead for a torpedo, but much bigger than a Hellfire.

[@cockatoo010]

Flight III Burkes do not have the harpon launchers and afaik, those can't be fitted on Mk41 VLS cells The helciopters should have had penguins, yes.

[@miketranfaglia3986]

@@cockatoo010 sure, but why choose that version for this simulation? As we've seen in a number of these sims (esp with planes), the latest and greatest isn't always the best choice for use against really old tech. Maybe they just don't have the older version, but that would be better here, IMHO.

[@brentaughe7539]

DDG 51-78 have harpoons. Max they carry is 8

[@Nr15121]

The version of the Burke in game has no harpoons including the ch modernized version new ships have vls launched lrasm through that’s not modeled but the main anti ship armament is still the sm2 and sm6 because the U.S. naval doctrine is anti ship via air not via ships

[@yournamehere9928]

@@miketranfaglia3986 Imo, the mod should just be updated to include the Block Va Maritime Strike Tomahawk, which can hit ships. That would instantly solve the "no Harpoon" problem.

[@kirk0respite]

“Smash! That’s how you use an Apache!” Lmao

[@bewing77]

Getting close to a battleship was in fact a viable destroyer tactic of the age; a battleship can’t traverse their main gun turrets very fast so they have issues targeting a smaller vessel at close range. Many of them had secondary guns, but these were notoriously inaccurate, so a destroyer getting past defending destroyers and specifically cruisers to be able to use torpedoes effectively was a serious threat to a battleship.

[@jcobbdawg]

As a Navy Veteran and working with tactics, this scenario could have gone better with proper maneuvering but having helo gunships is not one of the tactics. I can't go into detail what tactics you could have used because of sensitivity but flanking and staying low is the best idea.

[@Pablo668]

Ok, so if we put this force against Kurita's force in that exact time and place, the initial action/damage should send Kurita packing. He'd (as you mentioned) fought the action in the Sibuyan Sea the previous day, losing the battleship Musashi and damaging the Yamato. I'm pretty sure he had his flagship sunk from underneath him (a cruiser?) as well. So he wasn't in the best frame of mind by the time of the action off Samar. Japanese intelligence gathering was garbage at this time, so he didn't know exactly who Taffy 3 were. I don't think his orders to his fleet were particularly coherent as it spread to the four winds chasing the US ships. So battle fatigue (assumed by me) lack of knowledge of who he was fighting, no idea (or very little) where the other US forces were, having lost another two cruisers at least, getting late in the day he decided to regather his fleet and withdraw. The more or less suicidal efforts of Taffy 3 had him rattled, more than he already was. So given the same mental state preceding the battle, incredibly fast unknown technology starts to maul his fleet, he is going to turn around and go home. That's my take anyway.

[@HAXRLITSXY]

Yeah, I would say that he would have turned around before the destroyer would be destroyed.

[@MrSGL21]

@@HAXRLITSXY the opening salvo of sm6s would have turned the center force for sure. they sank more tonnage in the 1st few minutes of this engagement that Kurita lost to Taffy 3.

[@scottsauritch3216]

If it were an Blk III Burke whos VLS is filled with Blk Vb Tomohawks, it'd be over in 1 salvo...

[@trevorday7923]

On a more serious note I do recommend recommend teaming up with Drachinifel, he's a huge naval history channel on KZbin and WW1 and WW2 are the period he covers the most. I especially recommend his series about the Guadalcanal Campaign, lots of good video subject-fodder there 👍🏻

[@Musicluless]

Cap and y'all GR's...this was very enlightening and entertaining. Thanks. Addendum, from previous vid..."A face full of Simba missile" was classic Cap/SuperCap.

[@nick_QA0]

We need more Battle Off Samar content of all types.

[@FriedPi-mc5yt]

Hooray!! Fly is back and doing fun stuff!

[@Canthus13]

Commander Evans and the Johnston deserved something more than a medal of honor. That was absolutely insane. The Samuel B Roberts was pretty amazing, too.

[@madmadmal]

One thing to consider is the psychological effect of so many destroyers killed by an unknown force. My opinion is that the Japanese force would have withdrawn after the first SM6 salvo.

[@jokiejoker2011]

As always wonderful work. Lovey way to spend my time. Thanks

[@dorianwall5849]

How many WW2 IJN Yamato class battleships would you need to defeat a single 1988 USS Iowa class battleship? Would love to see this as a simulation, might take a few runs though as I fancy it takes quite a few Yamato's for a win.

[@anthonyb5279]

Volumetric smoke is hard on video cards. Is there a setting that would limit the number of puffs used? looks like its set on over kill reducing frame rate.

[@hardrockuniversity7283]

What you DEFINITELY do not want to hear on the ship's intercom first thing in the morning. Capt Evan, USS Johnston, "Men, we are going into action against overwhelming odds. Survival is not likely. We will do what we can."

[@aurora1024]

Realistically, Kurita would have turned and headed home long before the naval gunnery started, and probably even before the choppers got involved. I'd call that a solid win.

[@bread8283]

"would you intercept me? id intercept me" really channeling that f22 energy here

[@Stinger522]

The Burke could've sunk the battleships if it had the Block V Tomahawks. I think an 055 might do better since it has dedicated anti-ship missiles.

[@frenchroast1355]

Considering it would have taken only one of the Japanese ships with guns to get through, this was a very ambitious scenario. As it was you had 3 monstrous battleships parked a few miles away...LOL. well fought though, the firepower of the Burke is amazing even without the extra helicopters.

[@VikingTeddy]

I was shouting at the screen. Why didn't they destroy that last functional turret? They had this on the bag! This one qualifies for the game of throws...

[@ItsDeath-fr7wp]

I mean considering at 74-63 miles the Burke could use Harpoons idk but the other Sams & missiles also would rain terror also having no way to defend against any of this and the destroyers would never come into range of the Battleships idk

[@josephglatz25]

Here's a scenario. 1 Gulf war era Iowa class + the lads in choppers versus the same fleet.

[@seanquigley3605]

Hey guys and gal....great video. That should be called a successful mission. The Burke lived up to her namesakes Bravery Michael Murphy won the Congressional Medal of Honor in Afganistan during the action portrayed in Sole Survivor. Also the Japanese historically turned tail after suffering way less damage and losses then were inflicted here. Maybe next time add the modern Samuel B Roberts if the Perry class frigates are available in game.

[@karljolley8346]

gives an even greater respect and awe of Taffy 3. ships & planes, one of the OMG battles of all time...

[@europademon]

This was a fun one. Well done.

[@plasmahead2]

LMAO!!! The habitual line crosser reference, Well played!

[@ahauser2138]

My uncle was a plank owner and survivor of the USS Gambier Bay. Was on the same raft as some of the bridge officers (those who survived) and was in the water until the next morning or afternoon. (if memory is correct) There was only one Yamato class battle ship their, it's sister ship was sunk the day before. The other JIN battleships were the Nagato, Kongo and Haruna. Heavy Cruisers Chokai, Haguro, Kumano, Suzuya, Chikuma, Tone. Two light cruisers and 11 destroyers.

[@ToddRainer-j4d]

I served aboard the USS Hoel, DDG-13, the namesake of USS Hoel, DD-533, which was one of the destroyers sunk at Samar. She was in the first torpedo attack on the Japanese fleet. Hoel wound up boxed in by Japanese ships and was pounded on by Naval Gunfire. Rounds from the battleships were passing clean through her without exploding. Within 40 minutes into the battle Hoel was DIW and shortly after went to the bottom. 6 Escort carriers, 3 Destroyers, and 4 Destroyer Escorts, went up against 4 Battleships, 6 Heavy Cruisers, 2 light Cruisers, and 11 Destroyers.

[@CaptainSeamus]

A bit of a personal note: My wife's uncle was a radioman on the USS White Plains (CVE-66) at the Battle of Leyte Gulf. He didn't talk too much about it other than to say it was very busy and harrowing as a 20 year old kid from Mason, TX. He did mention about how they took a hit that knocked out the entire electrical system, and they had it back online inside of 3 minutes.

[@Werrf1]

If you'd had some proper anti-ship weapons on those choppers, this would absolutely have been a win. A couple of torpedoes under _Yamato's_ keel would've done the job.

[@josepetersen7112]

Could the Helos have actually carried a MK48? I don't think they've ever been specced for it even if they could manage the weight. ASW torps, on the other hand, aren't going to do much except for, at best, puncturing a single compartment assuming it's a shaped charge variant. Realistically, 100lbs blast-frag just won't hurt Yammy much, and while a MK48 would, I don't see it getting there from a Helo.

[@samulivainionpaa9338]

@@josepetersen7112 MK48 is a submarine only weapon. And ASW torpedoes like mk46 have a 50kg warhead, which wouldn't do much of anything to a Yamato torpedo belt, plus not sure if they even go for surface targets at all.

[@mfreed40k]

The Johnston damn near did it alone.

[@Synthmilk]

Is there a reason Tomahawks aren't being used? As of 2021 Block Va and Vb have anti-ship capability, with Vb specifically having an armor penetrating role. Also: "Something wrong with Russian missiles today guys" so it is an accurate simulation of modern Russian equipment? It's going to be interesting to do these simulations in the next few years once the new integrated data network is fully deployed, with hand-off ability for every radar guided missile. Not to mention whatever tech improvements have enabled significant range increases, such as for the AGM-179 JAGM-MR, the replacement for the TOW and Hellfire with a range of 16km (10 miles), or double the range for the same dimensions.

[@Battlestargroup]

Next attempt at this should be with a Tico or Wasp Class just to see how much difference the results have

[@mrlodwick]

Very good thank you all!

[@A_Haunted_Pancake]

So cool ! I hope that one day we see the whole range of modern ships to the point, were you can even do a proper amphibious assault with tanks on LCACs "'nd sh*t". 😋

[@ronaldfinkelstein6335]

The 5"/38 guns of US destryers weren't able to punch through Battleship and cruiser armor...but they could damage the superstructures of enemy ships...enough to make an enemy ship mission incapable-killing or wounding command personnel, damaging fire control gear and antiaircraft guns. One unrealism here is the lack of USN aurcraft. In the real battle, Taffy 3s aircraft did a fair amount of damage to Kurita's force...especially when aircrsft from Taffy 1 and 2 arrived.

[@aaronroode6298]

Even though it probably wouldn't have made any difference in this scenario, it always annoys me how terribly inaccurate the radar guided naval guns on the modern ships are in DCS. They are apparently incredibly accurate IRL, even able to engage airborne targets.

[@Spectre4913]

The AA shells had proximity or timed fuses. Really the proximity fuse is what made our 5" guns so good against aircraft. The chances of aiming at and hitting an attacking fighter with a direct hit is like winning the lottery

[@GymBahb]

30:10 Sock watches Habitual Line Crosser! 😂

[@exoterric]

I love these. I'd love more fleshed out alt-naval fights. Find some retired fleet captains who game?

[@itsjustme8947]

I spent my 32 year career dropping bombs, but I've got a friend from high school who drove boats for the Navy. Close enough?

[@exoterric]

@@itsjustme8947 yes, get your swabbie commanding their surface ships immediately! You know Star Citizen? Bet you're a freaking nightmare to fight.

[@itsjustme8947]

@@exoterric Heh, my left eye is blind to remind me of the last mission I ever flew. Not too much of a nightmare to fight when your depth perception is exactly ZERO. I haven't strapped a fighter to my ass in almost 15 years now. Now, if I can break Carl away from his cushy job at Woods Hole...yeah, he'd have some fun.

[@lavenderlilacproductions]

When those SM6s started smashing boats, some Japanese Captain was doing an Admiral Beatty: "There's something wrong with our bloody ships!"

[@brianwright9514]

"The World wonders..." Why the fuck Halsey didn't turn around sooner. 😂

[@NerdishNature]

Awesome entertainment as always, THY cap & GR. any chance of new carrier command or uboat sessions? :]

[@grimreapers]

We have an entire channel now for CC2.

[@ochat2010]

"Im dead, somebody spawned inside me i think". 😂

[@mirthenary]

30:04 "punch it hunkmeyer", is that an Aliens quote, cuz I think it's Spunkmeyer

[@grimreapers]

yes

[@ToddRainer-j4d]

The Battle of Samar is where my ship's (USS Hoel, DDG-13) namesake (USS Hoel, DD-533) was sunk.

[@BOATS_22]

Last stand of the tin can salior was a awsome book

[@josephglatz25]

An SM-6 might not get through the belt or deck armor of a battleship (except maybe the Kongos), but it could take out its super structure, destroy gun directors, fire control systems, range finders, kill the bridge crew, knock out secondary armament, and start lots and lots of fires. The armor is there mainly to provide buoyancy, protect the main guns, and prevent hits on stuff like magazines. You can cause all sorts of damage to a battleship without having to get through the armor. I'm guessing that DCS doesn't model that sort of thing terribly well though.

[@jerrycallaio5130]

How About Trying One Of The Old Reactivated Iowa Class Battleships; Now Armed With Missiles, Helicopters And Retaining Some Of Their Big Guns???

[@grimreapers]

Roger

[@jerrycallaio5130]

@@grimreapers Thank You! Wilco????? And Out.

[@saltzen961]

Would have loved to see Halsey's Fleet of battle wagons, take on Kurita's Center thrust .

[@kenbryson2240]

Arleigh Burke has two Helicopter bays, as well as the ability to carry one more on the secondary flight deck, and displaces enough to handle it.

[@michaelimbesi2314]

I loved the Habitual Linecrosser reference

[@Revivethefallen]

My Grandpa was on a destroyer escort in that battle. That was a cool video.

[@anathardayaldar]

I don't see a comment about this yet so I'll make one: Taffy destroyers chased that japanese battle fleet away because they charged so confidently that the japanese admiral assumed it meant the main US fleet was close behind. So similary, once you achieved a significant amount of damage on the japanese, they should have failed a moral check and left as well.

[@arakuss1]

Also the Japanese miss identified some of the destroyers and thought they were cruisers. Also Kurita when he first sighted the escort jeep carriers thought they were the main carriers so he did not form up and ordered ships to charge in at first. So the fleet had issues in supporting each other.

[@tonylopez6213]

Towards the end you guys should have tried to attack low from the front so you could unload the missiles and then crash. Just a thought!

[@Nr15121]

30:20 lmao fire reference by sockington

[@arakuss1]

Interesting and looks like a fun but really does not take into account all the factors that went into the battle of Samar. Kurita and most of the commanders of the fleet were not very into the idea of sacrificing their fleet to destroy the landing fleet. Kurita decisions in this battle were influenced by the idea that he had found the main US carrier fleet. So how he would have responded to a sighting of a single ship is hard to say. Then once his fleet was hit by all those missiles and the damage they caused I do believe he would turned his fleet back around. One of his hesitancy and fears was his fleet being destroyed by US Carrier Aircraft before he could get through the straights. I do suggest more back ground reading into a historical battle before creating the sim to better get the feel of what would happen and how the forces would change the battle field victory conditions. If he had survived with only that small of a force Kurita would just returned home. In fact after the battle of Samar he did continue on. Low on fuel and unable to cut off the retreating carriers, Kurita ordered his fleet to reassemble shortly after 0900 and make for its assigned target-the anchorage at Leyte Gulf. At about 1230, as they neared the mouth of Leyte Gulf, Kurita suddenly gave the order to turn around and sail north. Some say he received reports that the main US fleet was sighted someplace north and he moved to supposedly engage that fleet. (There is no recorded evidence of such a report.) Again this may go to show his focus was more on sinking capital ships not the landing force ships. In the end there was no US fleet there and with low fuel and the loss of light he would turn west and limp back to home port. Most likely had he engaged the landing fleet he would done some damage but not enough to have slowed the US advance since most of the forces were disembarked already. It is said Kurita later and life said that he chose to retreat because he found no honor in continuing and sacrificing his men for something that would achieve nothing. That retreating was the best thing to do to preserve them to fight another day. Not all Japanese officers believed in just dying for nothing but instead wanted to chose a battle that was worthy to die in. In the planning for operation "Sho" there were many rumblings about sacrificing the last of the Japanese fleet to destroy landing crafts rather than head on engagement of the US capital ships.

[@st3vorocks290]

It would be interesting to see if you could drop a TOW down one of the stacks. Or maybe down a gun barrel.....

[@ryabow]

for some reason, my brain switched Leyte gulf with the gulf of Tonkin. and i'm just like "i mean.... yes? it was only three torpedo boats.... they didn't stand a chance against a Sumner-class, they sure as heck don't stand a chance against an Arleigh Burke..." the brain fog is real.

[@DirtyHairy1]

as for the size of the hangar, I expected a "your mom" joke.

[@garreth629]

Would you intercept me? I'd intercept me. Lol. Well it looks like someone is watching habitual linecrosser.

[@matsv201]

If we for real would get one Arleigh Burke back to 1944. The vertical launch system can be loaded with a Tomahawk missile, that in turn can have a W80 150kT warhead. That would just need one missile and the whole battle group would evaporate.

[@colerape]

Boring or not you can use helos from the destroyers to spot the IJN fleet and hit it from range. That would be a more faithful recreation. You won that battle. Kurita turned back with far fewer casualties than what you inflicted with just the SSMs from the Burke. Kurita probably would have started running when he saw his destroyers being obliterated with one hit from some bolt from the blue. Good job guys!

[@kwokterrance6690]

F22: would you intercept me？ I would intercept me

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

Yeah, there is very little in all of history that could match the disparity of forces, and still result in a "win". The very stamp and pattern of Duty.

[@mikeallen2292]

Heroic actions at such a level that I can’t get my head around.

[@Canthus13]

Flight III destroyers can carry 2 helicopters in hangars, and can technically carry one more on the flight deck, although that's not generally normal.

[@everypitchcounts4875]

the US army is getting some land-based MK-41 VLS capable of firing SM-6 and Tomahawk cruise missiles.

[@warbuzzard7167]

😳 somebody goan’ be in a world a’ hurt should that unit go into combat.

[@ashtiboy]

you nkow those Mk-41 VLS missle pods on that unit shold just be monuted on the side turret armor on thsoe allready exesting arbram tanks instead with there own gidance and targting sistems that when hit by enemy fire would also reactal like very oversized reactive armor that would blow up even very large emey projetiltes. it would be far cheaper and far more easly for R&D time that would just be far more easy to do for the meantime.

[@ArcHawkeGamesandSkills]

I'm convinced the IJN would have watched all the destroyers taken and decide [once again] "Um. No. No no. Nope"

[@notagooglesimp8722]

Right now I'm picturing the prototype French ship from Goldeneye the game and the hanger with the attack chopper taking off.

[@LIMITLESS_RC]

Could you imagine the pure torture of listening to that German guy constantly talk over everyone

[@Strykenine]

The answer to this question, as with any of the other similar questions is always 'Who has more ammunition?'

[@waynepollard198]

how about an LHA amphibious assault ship and an Arleigh Burke Flight III destroyer ?

[@pahtar7189]

Effectively you had one destroyer and one amphibious assault ship with a full load of helicopters. A Tico and assault ship should do it.

[@damongraham1398]

So the answer is yes. Even if better tactic were used and limited to two helicopter either Apaches or Seahawks they could stop them if the Imperial Japanese did not decide to ignore their loses. If the IJN did decide to ignore their loses and limited to only two helicopters they COULD have bulled through. I wonder what would the battle have been like if the modern destroyer had been joined by Task Group 77.4. Keep the Burke at range and have the WW2 aircraft to distract the anti air gunners from from the Seahawks' Mark 46 torpedoes. The warships of Task Group 77.4 could have added to the tally they built in the original timeline. What about transferring a few Mark 46 and the means to guide and fire them to aircraft, destroyers, or destroyer escorts? A few question. Can the anti air missiles from the Burke be reprogrammed onsite to target the IJN warships? Can a torpedoes speed be controlled after firing? I understand allowing the Burke to stay at stand off range would be less entertaining but if Task Group 77.4 was added that would increase the entertaining quota. Great work from all involved. Would love to see what the working Freedom class Littoral combat ships could do in the Persian Gulf against the Iranian Navy. Also any thought of having someone write a novel about this time lost units. I know it has been done before but more books never hurt anyone.....I think🤔.

[@KibuFox]

Realistically speaking, the moment several destroyers got obliterated by weapons that the IJN commanders can't understand, they'd have turned tail and ran.

[@thystaff742]

If you don't understand the weapon then you're also clueless on where to flee too.

[@KibuFox]

@@thystaff742 True, but continuing on the attack like that, wouldn't make sense. They'd know that the attack was coming from that general direction, so going that way, isn't a good idea. Best case scenario, they'd scatter to the winds and all directions. But most likely? The force commander would pick a new direction and turn, thinking that at first, it's some kind of hidden submarine and they're torpedoes. Then seeing they're coming from the air, he'd go back the way he came, ordering 'best speed', and have his ships make smoke in an effort to hide them from the attacker. Likely thinking they're some kind of kamikaze attack. Akin to the Ohka bombs.

[@xenaguy01]

2:40 _"Three hundred and twenty-two aircraft ..."_ Which were armed only with anti-submarine depth charges and machine guns. 3:12 I was unaware that any US carriers were sunk. 😱 17:00 Maybe Cortana's anti tank missiles are downblast?

[@Norbrookc]

USS Gambier Bay was sunk. It's the only carrier lost due to enemy gunfire.

[@imapopo2924]

It'd be nice if you had more ship models to work with. 3 of the 4 battleships present were smaller than the Yamato and 2 of those were Kongo class battleships, which were retrofitted to be battleships from battlecruisers. That might not sound like a big deal, but when you take into account that those Kongos would be significantly less armored than the Yamato, that means those missiles might have done significantly more damage to them than they would have the massive steel behemoth that is the Yamato. They'd be more like up armored cruisers rather than true battleships.

[@trevorday7923]

Imagine being the US Navy recon pilot, flying on a lovely day, and dropping down through the clouds to come face to face with the Yamato. The biggest and most powerful battleship ever built. Trousers, I suspect, were duly decorated....

[@paulhurst7748]

The Arleigh Burke should be chasing salvoes, with it's radar, it can keep firing and the Yamato will have a difficult time ranging on the Burke. Imagine if there was 3 Burkes and 1 Tyco CMP.

[@jamison884]

Add the Burke Torpedo launchers and I think you have a case!

[@9999plato]

Destroyers and cruisers have 2 helo bays and often carry 2 helos. I dont know that Apaches have equipment to use the ships RAST helicopter recovery gear that helps reel the bird down to a mobile skid mounted to rails in the flight deck. It traps a weight suspended from the bird and the helo reels itself down in rough seas.This allows recovery and pulls the birds in and out of the helo hangars. Even my ship, the USS Rentz FFG46 had dual hangar bays.

[@dragonbladem6899]

I’d argue that this would be considered a success for the Arleigh Burke since before the enemy ships opened fire, a vast majority of the enemy fleet was disabled and the Japanese likely would have retreated, especially once the battleships were left since the Yamato was more of a symbol of power for the Japanese rather than a ship dedicated to combat so they likely wouldn’t risk it seeing the destruction the fleet took.

[@ledhceb]

Of course, keep in mind that the battle occured with a number of squalls that Taffy3 was able to exploit in conjunction with smokescreens. The IJN was using optical fire control only except for the Yamato which had crude radar fire control. The Fletcher class destroyers on the other hand had the excellent Ford Mk 1 fire control system. The other major factorin the battle was that the IJN was expecting the main US fleet and misidentified Taffy3 as a contingent of Cruisers and fleet carriers, and was expecting the return of the 3rd fleet. If the Burke operated at standoff range and fully exploited its c4isr capabilities the IJN would have panicked more than they did in the actual battle.

[@ledhceb]

Having had a chance to look at the loadout on a Burke class and assuming it sees Center Force first. Run at least or 2 MH-60R Seahawks with LAMPS III for over the horizon support. Stay behind the squalls that were occuring at the time move as far into a standoff position as possible and dump as many Tomahawk Block V-a Maritime Strike Variants as you have on the battleships with extra love for the Yamato. Without warning or visual contact the IJNs battleships get explodey, basically throwing IJN command and control into worse chaos than was the case in the actual battle. Follow up with as many ASROCs as you've got. Center Force will have taken multiple critical hits without having any idea what hit them. With the only strikes they can comprehend being torpedos ( with no trails) they would have to assume submarine attack. Follow up with as many Mk 54 torpedos the MH-60Rs can carry. Center Force still hasn't seen what is shooting at them and has taken a serious body blow. Close to torpedo range and dump the rest of your torpedoes at cruisers and any battleships still afloat. Engage EW systems at that point. Dump any antiship missles at that point. Then loose the attack helos at that point. Given what a few errant torpedoes did to disrupt Center Force at the actual battle you can imagine what this would do. Keep in mind that Center Force would be operating under the assumption that they are under attack by multiple submarines and knowing that the 3rd and 7th fleet will be returning in hours, they are more likely to retreat than in the actual battle. Not playing fair but that's the point.

[@MaxCruise73]

A big problem with modern navies is the lack of guns. This was a problem going back as far as the Falkland's war. Some of the Royal Navy ships in 1982 did not have any guns. There is a need to start adding more guns of at least 5" or larger back on future ships. Look at the specs of the WWII USS CL-55 Cleveland class light cruiser. Twelve MK-16 6" auto loading main guns along with twelve dual purpose 5"/38 guns. Suppose two of the 6" gun turrets were removed and replace with Vertical Launch missiles. To reduce space, one could remove 2 to 4 of the 5"/38 mounts which would allow the mounting of other missile systems and reduce crew size. Suspect ship could take more damage than a modern destroyer or cruiser. No proof, only conjecture. That would produce a ship that has WAAY more artillery and could still carry anti-ship/anti-air missiles.