Could Ken Climo Play on the Pro Tour? | Debate Night

[@DarttheLegend]

Ken is just an elite athlete who adapted to the way the game was played at all eras of his career. He would do the same in the modern era and still be dominant as he was in the past. I think Calvin Heimburg is actually a good comparison for "what would prime Ken Climo look like today?" because I see so much of Climo's style and Form in Calvin's, which makes sense because Climo was absolutely Calvin's "local pro" when he was growing up. Calvin has been great for years but I feel like he's just now coming into his "prime" and his game is very much Climo's legacy, and I think Calvin is the best in the world right now.

[@DustinDiscGolf]

Great to be back! Always good times on Debate Night!

[@JTNugget]

I'm not sure if that guy actually watched the 2007 Memorial. The winds they were dealing with were insane. It's not a surprise they would have shot high compared to this year.

[@613cjt]

Definitely enjoy the open ended/big picture questions. Really liked the discussion on how to make majors more prestigious.

[@emilianocastaneda1812]

First of all Climo is a physical specimen! and after watching his interview it's clear that he is absolutely a student of the game and is an insanely hard worker with with upper echelon mental fortitude. Topped of with a natural affinity for throwing discs, he would be a top 3 player for sure at any point in disc golf history IMO.

[@protroll697]

When you throw a cobra near 600ft, your talent works any era.

[@Notimp0rtant523]

I love how we call it a forehand except for when we’re talking about Stokely, in which case we call it a sidearm

[@matthewfleming1000]

Really feel like we need to go all in on maple hill. It should be tied to a major. It has the fan base. Not sure what the parking situation is, but the holes are memorable like Augusta National.

[@alectorres2664]

Bro! Having Dustin on this show gives me whiplash as someone who watches Valorant coverage 😂

[@DustinDiscGolf]

Haha. Hope you enjoy both!

[@feverdream8955]

If healthy he could be about as good as Uli

[@lucasmuller8074]

Brody, Climo was feature card final round at USDGC literally like 8 years ago, in his prime he would be a staple on tour

[@Nick-ov4yv]

Yelp prime Climo would've learned a forehand in a weekend. If he were forced too Climo would've easily been able to learn a forehand it just wasn't necessary so Climo didn't focus on it.

[@Discsforbaskets]

Climo had a 350' forehand that he did use when needed but you can't "what if" him a 475' forehand.

[@stephanieparrish4742]

@Nick I agree Climo is one of,if not the greatest to ever do it.I don't think it's as easy to just grow a pro level forehand over a weekend.I would think Conrad would have allready done that lol

[@Nick-ov4yv]

@@stephanieparrish4742 Conrad hasn't shown that he can win 12 world titles, maybe he's just not the athlete that Climo is? Look how Kenny's built he's literally shaped like a slingshot he would've learned a forehand in 48 hours one that was enough to get by. Then he would've continued to grow his skill forehand if the courses of the time would've called for it.

[@stephanieparrish4742]

@Nick You very well could be correct.I just think it's a little more to it than 48 hours,but that's just me.If anyone could figure it out it would probably be the champ!

[@combsyson]

Hunter reading my tweet on debate night completely caught me off guard lol

[@sebastiannachilly500]

I mean I don't blame Hunter for being so pessimistic on Climo given his closeness to Climo's direct rival of the GOAT debate. As far as the forehand goes I guess they forgot Eagle literally won a major last year with zero forehands, Simon won four times last year with minimal forehands, and there are videos of Climo with silky touch forehands, and even lefty backhands. Also Conrad won the USDGC and a Worlds within the last 4 years throwing VERY dominantly backhand. To cite a general lack of a flick as a reason Climo wouldn't have a chance is nitpicky at best. Those "GOAT" type athletes with their mental games alone would win no matter where you put them in history.

[@Discsforbaskets]

Eagle threw shots only Eagle can throw, to win that and also did throw a couple of lefties. The courses Simon won on were open bomber courses where distance was needed and not a forehand. Climo had a smooth 350' forehand but you can't "what if" him Paul's 475' forehand. Paul can throw any shot Climo can but Climo can't throw every shot Paul can.

[@sebastiannachilly500]

@@Discsforbaskets Maple Hill is open bombing? And if a 475' forehand was needed, Stokely had it and it didn't put a dent in Climo's record. Furthermore, if you put Paul with Climo's old bag on the old style courses I'm taking Climo all day. Paul CAN throw those shots but if the event is a bunch of technical shots with flippy discs I'm betting Climo has them grooved the same way I'd bet on Paul in an era with the bomber course with his forehand grooved. I know it's a crazy what if. And yea if you just DROPPED 2003 Ken on tour it might not go well. But if this modern game is what was called for, I feel like someone as good as Climo would be able to adapt. To me the question was more could Climo compete, and to me the answer is yes because he would play today's game if that's what was required. Maybe not immediately, but not never.

[@larryfaust3907]

Maple Hill..... An open bombers course? I think not!!

[@jacobmaguire5142]

The PGA championship spectator etiquette was great too, I went when it was in St. Louis at Bellerieve, and I sat a chair up first thing in the morning when I got there on the 18th fairway, after that, I followed around some of my favorite players for their rounds until the leaders started coming in and then, when I went back to my seat, it was untouched

[@tyleranderson6533]

Does James Proctor have a forehand? Im not sure and they were talking about how Ken would need a forehand and i disagree, if you can backhand turnover a disc as well as Proctor or Isaac Robinson why throw a forehand?

[@synrsmok]

How does no one bring up Kenny's putting? Would keep him competitive in any era.

[@mattmay6348]

Ken would adjust and learn like any good athlete. People that think the guys today are amazing, are diluted. Disc golf hasn’t begun to tap into real athletes.

[@CagoEman23]

Kinda wish we could get rid of the time limit and replace it with just taking points away if someone is getting repetitive or not making good points anymore.

[@SituAsian]

Great questions. I did enjoy the show.

[@discblaster9210]

Kenny, like Jack Nicklaus, was quietly the best putter

[@justingeary3369]

Great show. I’ve been saying this for quite awhile but I think the pdga should standardize baskets for all “A tiers” and up. Same chain weight and basket depth and height from band to top of cage. It’s crazy to think that the pros have too play on different baskets every course.

[@chrism4008]

100%, i dont like it as a casual, i cant imagine it as a pro

[@justingeary3369]

@@chrism4008 I agree. I don’t like it much either. But I do have baskets I love and a lot I don’t like at all. You hear it on coverage all the time about how the pros have change their putting to accommodate a basket. Could you imagine being a professional basketball player and one game playing on a regular rim and the next arena has a double rim that also doesn’t breakaway. Would be horrible.

[@johnedward5520]

The thing about the Masters is that it is the only major that is held at the same course every year. The USDGC is the only disc golf major held at the same course for the last 20+ years. The winner gets exemption for life. The location and course are extremely special. Both change every year in someway or the other. Both the Masters and USDGC are always the most exciting finishes of the year cause the courses setup so well for drama. Only diff is the 1.50$ sandwiches and you can go play Winthrop whenever.

[@billieashton8302]

Foundation should pay Kenny to come on Debate Night! Ken would give you all a run for your money! Make it happen!

[@R_J_G]

Hilarious guys like hunter talking about The Champ! Go down to Florida and see what the bogey little bros do against Ken and whoever.

[@RobMonroe97]

In his prime he dominated the competition. But nobody can argue that the competition hasn’t gotten a lot better. It’s like saying people George Mikan would dominate the NBA today

[@americanvirusisfreedom8496]

I agree, his skill at disc throwing would be the same with more options. How many people have also almost destroyed their arms with sidearm?

[@thaddeuswireman552]

He would look like stokely

[@zeuris747]

@@RobMonroe97 NBA today is not dominated by centers today. NBA is a 3 point game. Poor analogy using basketball to conpare disc golf.

[@RobMonroe97]

@@zeuris747 it’s a perfect analogy because todays disc golf game has evolved too

[@Griesy]

We won’t have a Masters-level event until we have a Masters-level course. There’s still an opportunity for a property to emerge and be that true destination place that’s a mix of natural beauty, course difficulty, and spectator accessibility.

[@Tisen90]

Hunter: lists a dozen stats about Simon Hunter 2 seconds later: “everyone’s listing all these stats, blah blah blah.”

[@kalehorvath]

The par discussion was interesting. I don't come from a ball golf background, so I couldn't care less that there isn't a standard par. I've never, in 10 years of playing, said I shot 60, or whatever. It's always, I shot 2 down today, or 3 over, or something like that. So to me, I really don't care what the overall par is.

[@chad7531]

I'm in a really similar situation to you and I agree. But, I think it would make sense for the pro tour to enforce something like that so that each course has to have a required amount of par 3s 4s etc.

[@kalehorvath]

@@chad7531 That makes sense to me, good point.

[@Beaglefaust]

Par in disc golf depends more on the property as it is than traditional golf. DG courses get laid out without bringing in dozens of pieces of construction equipment moving earth. Eagle's Crossing is an exception a bit more in the trad golf mold - which might be the future.

[@leastselfawarepotassium]

Was expecting to get annoyed when you had the leftie talk but you absolutely nailed it.

[@murphyd8205]

I think people seriously underrate Climo. I was in the same boat but I just watched the 2000 usdgc (it’s on KZbin) which he absolutely dominated and the course was almost exactly the same as now minus a few holes/mandos. His score in 2000 was 2 back of Gannons this year if you want to make an argument like hunter. With new discs he could definitely shred, not sure he’d be Mcbeth levels or anything though

[@deephorse974]

Hunter saying Ken Climo prime was 2003-2007 is WAY off. Prime Ken Climo was 1991-1999. He won the PDGA World Championship by 18 strokes, in 1999 won the U.S. Disc golf championship by 15 strokes. In 2015, WAY past his prime at the age of 46, was competitive with McBeth and Wysocki at the USDGC. Seriously these guys are smoking something to think prime Ken Climo would not be competitive today, when very old Ken Climo was competitive in 2015.

[@deephorse974]

Some player added "If he would play full-time" at some point. Funny because I saw interview with Climo where he said he would often play 10 rounds per day at his nearby 9 hole course, so obviously 5 full 18 hole rounds.

[@johnedward5520]

The USDGC has serious Masters vibes, I have been to both multiple times. The USDGC is the closest thing disc golf has to the Masters and that is a serious compliment.

[@ohNONOky]

The wooden propeller trophy at Idlewild is very nice and unique

[@brandonnorris2898]

Does disc golf need just 18 holes if you have too many par 3s to create scoring separation add a few more holes

[@nicholasmeyer9581]

Any insight on why College Disc Golf National Championships if moving and where's it might be going?

[@daftdolfing]

If Ken had all day long touring around, online access to build knowledge and the big money support from a sponsor like these kids have he’d destroy most of the field. Not enough can be said that the current generation is only great jumping off the backs of their predecessors not unlike mathematicians.

[@chrism4008]

We all stand on the shoulders of giants. It seems that only recently we've decided to pretend that we stand on our own two feet. We most certainly dont and couldnt

[@joshuaulstad7012]

What do the numbers next to their names mean? or the trophy's next to their names?

[@DustinDiscGolf]

We score points based on how much the host likes our arguments. The trophies are how many times the player has won the show so far.

[@johnedward5520]

Climo would be a top 5 player. He would be winning multiple majors. Winners win. Golf is a mental game and Ken is among the smartest golf minds to ever play the game. Add to that the fact that he has all the shots and disc knowledge. As the one guy mentioned, there is a reason his name is on allll those innova discs…

[@ryaninSartell]

Scott Stokely showed that seasoned pros still have game!

[@danielfahrion2603]

I agree with hunter, on Simon 😊 I'm watching and play disc golf for about 10 years. Simon was, in my opinion, always the most talented player around, as i think, most of the top 10-20 players, had to work hard to get there where they are. I have so much respect for Mcbeth and all the other players for working that hard, as professionals do, but Simon never had to work hard to compete, he also never had the drive to be big in the sport through winning titles. But seems Simon has his own little family, he has changed, the most talented player in the sport, found the drive to win titles and is willing to put the hard work in😜

[@ImLynnsane]

Hunter is not wrong I'm a closet Lefty but from playing baseball and everything like that my swing right-handed felt normal but then I kept losing to my friends who have forehand and my elbow did not develop on my right arm like my left so now I throw backhand both ways and I do Lefty forehand 😂😂 also whenever y'all want to run WR Jackson for the bogey bro battles please let me know!! Also, I know you'll meet a lot of people, but every time y'all gone to usdgc, I have talked to y'all. I was the one that said + 50 for Silas there lol

[@TheBotchJob]

I think Ricky will take Champions cup... He's off the injury and had such an epic battle with Chris Dickerson in 2022. He is definitely going to want that win back this year.

[@listondavis]

Not that it's any better, but the guy tunn8ng across the Fairway during MCO mid shot was a spotter, i believe. That's what they said on live coverage anyway.

[@milespaints]

along with the trophy discussion, how about a discussion about the tacky manner in which they are presented? How about a bit of time between hole out on last 18th hole and the presentation? They don't need time to double check scores, set up a ceremony, or a microphone? Take a look at The Masters awarding of the green jacket for some dignity and class.

[@henrymanahan2764]

Rick winning Champions cup but Simon has the Proxy 🤔 I think Ledgestone has some prestige. More so than other elite series events. Also worlds should be at Maple Hill every year.

[@nathanielblack1130]

Hunter, ratings are not a measurement of skill but of strength versus field. Stop bashing ratings as a poor measurement of skill, they're not even trying to measure skill

[@sciaracrew9608]

I think the better question that everyone missed on Ken is, would Ken compete with Johnny McCray and (or) could he win a MP50 or MP 40 world championship,,,,

[@DarttheLegend]

My dad is terrified of the prospect of Climo coming back in 55+, and all those guys in his age group feel the same way, their perspective is, if Climo comes back, they can never win again.

[@Flanfam]

Mill ridge is also very rare to play it seems outside the events hosted.

[@NateThunder]

All we really want is Climo VS Stokely..

[@me36391]

I was very negative on the change to this format, but congrats its a good show. Few things: There is a park with 5 courses not far from NYC one of which is where they have held the US Open. DG needs to break the stigma of being a bong sport if you want to have a tradition The FPO is really bad this year, every tourney you look outside the top 5 its like seeing a rock drop in water. Expected more and nothing is changing On the future, when those women in BB and SB like Caroline start joining the tour, look out.

[@johnfink3103]

+1 for open-ended hypotheticals

[@kjgustafsson372]

If you win worlds your "one-time" forever....!

[@mmyers252]

Paul and Paige gave their mini wooden surf boards away to fans from the myrtle Beach open (which was cool) but I Guarantee neither player is giving away a $2000+ trophy to a fan

[@yoda_bard_gaming1712]

Hunter I gotta say, I’m one of the few left handed people who can’t do anything with my right hand. Unless you want you to see me take 50s on each hole

[@scozzaK]

Has Dustin been listening to Terry “things of that nature” Miller?

[@bsmithhammer]

I have massive respect for Climo, and really loved the way he pulled no punches in that recent interview. But the comment that "there were fewer pro events back then, or else I would have more wins" was way overly simplistic. Still, I'd love to see Climo re-engaged and commentating at the very least, since it sounds like his physical ability for multiple rounds just isn't there these days.

[@mmyers252]

Valerie is the young Ohn but with more distance . With her control and mindset she will be a great

[@tremendous9137]

None of them could beat Ken now.

[@danday9697]

I don't think climo would compete on the higher distance courses, but some of the woods, he wouldn't need that.

[@alwolschleger7242]

I don't shoot a total score, I shoot Plus or Minus of par. When I go play my home course and am talking with my friends later, I don't say what the total score was. I literally don't even know what the total score was! I say I shot a +2 or 1 Under or whatever. I think Brodie's too wrapped up in his ball golf experiences around what par means and how it should be stated. And, if you never came up with that ball golf verbiage (or once you can divorce yourself from it, as I did as my formative ball golf years were on the couple of local 9-hole courses I could afford with my high school job money), the whole notion that a course is "supposed" to have however many par 3s and par 4s and par 5s falls apart too. A course should have whatever's appropriate to the property, not a formulaic number of this or that sort of hole. It's not real hard to say "I shot a +2 at Palmer." That gives a pretty clear indicator of how I was shooting that day.

[@jmdittrich]

Of all your content, I just wish this one was more like a half an hour long. Brodie doesn't always have to get a last work Trevor doesn't have to respond to each one. Refine. Make it better. produce this better.

[@ShawnSchulz]

The guitar was not actually a gibson. It was a "knockoff" sg. You can tell by the headstock. An actual gibson sg would have been at least 2k

[@ryanfitz95]

Hunter's answer on lefties was so much better than Dustin's

[@ShawnSchulz]

Lefty here and in the non pro dg pop i actually see more lefties than compared to the general population.

[@discgolfillustrated2640]

During the Climo era there were no discs capable of being thrown forehand

[@DarttheLegend]

We threw vipers sidearm for scrambles and upshots of certain shapes, but I get that what you mean is you couldn't really throw a DISTANCE sidearm, right?

[@daftdolfing]

True

[@scottdavis5076]

Stokely would disagree

[@discgolfillustrated2640]

Vipers and whippets made forehands more realistic. I’m talking about when the roadrunner was king and before. Kenny even mentioned this in an interview recently with Brodie and Uli. Available video shows discs being thrown with 60 degree hyper just to get them to delay flipping long enough to get some reasonable distance and forget a headwind.

[@DarttheLegend]

@@discgolfillustrated2640 you must mean a different disc, the Roadrunner is a 9-speed that didn’t come out until 2005.

[@kingaxle]

Hunter is really kind of a buzzkill all the time. He raises valid points sometimes but is kind of a jerk about how he goes about raising them.

[@JTNugget]

"B-b-but you need a great backhand AND forehand to win in todays tour". Isaac Robinson just shit on you.

[@p0l4r23]

Eagle McMahon wins the left-hand argument Hunter was making.

[@tewksbob]

I dare you to say "could Ken Climo compete" 5 times fast

[@sethlandis93]

Forehand isn’t that hard to learn; especially not for Climo. He was just never forced to learn it because his competition wasn’t like it is now.

[@ronjones-6977]

It wasn't really a "choice" until after 2000. Discs that were truly torque resistant enough to throw sidearm were not a thing.(unless you were Stokely) If you truly believe that the competition wasn't that good, come out to NorCal and play MP60 and find out. The "old dudes" that will crush you were THE ONES he was playing...and they are still good. There may not have been 50 that could compete for the win, but there were 20-30. Kinda like there are now.

[@tyleranderson6533]

Also to add onto Dustin's point about finding something like the green jacket for disc golf, it could be as simple as a really cool looking mini marker or patch to add to bags, or even a decal that you can print onto tour series discs of your own if you win

[@bobbybobman3073]

Real talk, Calvin is a baller, Calvin not missing the podium this year even just through these contests is as impressive of Kristen going a whole year on the podium, since there are like 20-30 guys who could definitely win any tournament. The depth of the mpo field makes Calvin look stupid good.

[@andrewsimmons989]

That is literally why Kristen’s podium streak is impressive. She makes it look like there is no competition (even tho she lost some events). Calvin being top 3 is insane but c’mon you are comparing 3 to 12 months.

[@modalcrown060]

Foundation should pay Kenny to shoot a round in New London.

[@HerrBiermeister]

Could Ken Climo play on the Pro Tour? Let's ask a bunch of young peckerwoods (no offense to podcasters who are nice fellows for bringing Kristin interviews to me) who didn't grow up before there were mobile phones or the Internet and didn't watch him live or know what a Cobra is and only have the point of view of having seen some grainy footage recorded on some ancient hand held magnetic tape camera. Ken Climo in his prime age with modern discs rather than just Aviars and Cobras? Yes, The answer is Yes. It's not something one needs to hem and haw about. There's no... well it depends. The answer is yes. Yes FFS Yes

[@rvree9378]

I’m not sure about the conversation around technology. In his prime he was throwing KC aviar, roc, teebird, firebird and wraith. Still some of the best disc, if not the best disc, in the game. Sure, his 90’s bag wouldn’t work as well in todays game.

[@mhoovair89]

Jordan VS LeBaby isn’t even a competition

[@mmyers252]

Phil Mickelson is right handed but plays lefty because he learned from mirroring his dad …… at least that’s what I was told 🧐

[@soguitarist4287]

You are correct!

[@vigilant1921]

Trust me he would be winning.

[@Newtperc]

Why not just say I shot 5 down? Seems more concise no matter the course’s par

[@shamevonn1164]

Dustin and Hunter are like politicians, they just talk fast and say what they think is the most popular thing to say.

[@DustinDiscGolf]

I express my personal opinions. I don't worry about popularity?

[@johnedward5520]

Bad take by Brodie on Ken. Dude has won 5 USDGC. He could win in any era, ken was peaking less than 20 years ago.

[@ronjones-6977]

Can we just get over the pickleball thing? It's barely a "sport." It's tennis-LITE. It's for older tennis players that can't get around as quickly as they used to and for non-athletic younger people. It's the new beanbag toss...I mean, "corn-hole." (That is NOT what corn-hole meant when I was younger.)

[@bellies1000]

Masters special stuff ==> How about a jacket for the men and a dress for the women! OH and for gods sake!! GET DECENT PRIZE CEREMONIES!!!!

[@chad7531]

I love the point Brodie made about this not being a prestigious sport. I mean lets be completely honest the professional side of the game is maybe 4 years old. We have no foundation to build prestige on.

[@Discsforbaskets]

4 years old? When did you get into disc golf? Basically nothing has changed in the last 10 years except more money because more eyes on the sport thanks to covid and youtube.

[@chad7531]

@@Discsforbaskets That's just not true at all. We just now have an actual set pro tour that is all run by one company. We finally have a consistent set of majors and a field deep enough to provide electric finishes. McBeth's contract is really only the first point where it was proven that playing disc golf could be an actual worthwhile profession.

[@Discsforbaskets]

Can't "what if" Climo a 475' forehand.

[@Marcus32]

Classic youth opinions... "Everybody is better now than anybody was better then"

[@Discsforbaskets]

Classic old person opinion... "Nobody will ever be as good as he was, back in his day"

[@ronjones-6977]

@@Discsforbaskets NOBODY is saying that.

[@Jacob-Simonsen]

Pair 6 or not. It's not really relevant, all players are on equal playgrounds whatever we call it. We need more interesting courses with more opportunities for all player styles. We can call all holes pair 3 or 1, wouldnt matter.

[@mikehan3130]

A annual major at Eagles Crossing would be very special.

[@zeuris747]

Hunter give a list of the players that are competitive today that are outside the top 10. I want to see the names of the players u think are competitive that are better then Ken Climo, so I can laugh how crazy you are! Hunter & Brodie are not qualified or worthy to judge the 12x Champ !

[@xDUKELUVAx]

Dustin couldnt sound more annoying. Will always skip episodes with him on…

[@hoopj0nes]

Dustin’s answer on making a prestigious major should’ve been a max of 2 point. How did he get 4 points for that?!?

[@arturomarquez1759]

Didn’t like this week’s debate takes, for some reason

[@Kawwwman]

today as is, age and all, climo would crush brodie anyday of the weak. go home brodie

[@stvnm5282]

Hunter is smug

[@JumboJabs]

Brody...

[@aguila6162]

Brodie Smith thinks he cam be competitive but not 11 time champion that's dominated 3 different generations. There was no flaw in Ken Climo's game. Hunter is unclassified wannabe disc golfer & Brodie Smith needs to take his medication.

[@discgolfdon7362]

Swap out Dustin for anyone else

[@vigilant1921]

This is bait.

[@readingthewaters]

Dustin again… 🛌 🤖

[@itsbrandonbush]

first