Could They Have Won in 94 & 95?

[@jonnyarnett]

Sorry for the late upload! Had an internet outage today, and it just finally came back on. In your own words, what happens in 94 and 95 if MJ never retires the first time?

[@LegendGamer-dj8om]

arent these reuploads

[@jonnyarnett]

@LegendGamer It is not. I tackled the topic years ago before though, but the angle and my thoughts were different.

[@korruptwisdom8688]

They win 7 straight but lose in 98 from fatigue. Toni kukoc would have to be a solid #2 in 98 to win

[@ianhunt4754]

The bulls winning 4 or 5 straight is great for them and the fan base in theory but people also have to understand how these changes affect the future. In this hypothetical scenario the bulls win 4 or 5 straight. This can change how the teams in the league structure their new rosters. A super team could form in the effort to defeat them. Not to mention the yearly fatigue and the injuries that would most likely happen due to long post season runs, the bulls could end up only winning 4 or 5 championships as a whole. Then the question is how do you view Micheal Jordan and bulls legacy with 4 or 5 straight but not the 6, 7 or 8 championships the NBA fans think they might have gotten. Another amazing video from Mr. Jonny Arnett. You are much appreciated.

[@LegendGamer-dj8om]

@@jonnyarnett i see i see

[@Bronn92]

Even if they won in 94 and 95, that doesn't mean they won in 96, 97 and 98. That's not how things work.

[@christianc.christian5025]

This is a really good point. I've always been a believer that the Bulls - with a fully capable, game-ready Michael Jordan - were the beat team in the NBA either of those years. But winning repeat titles means playing at least an extra 30 games for 2 consecutive titles. Not to mention, the regular season wear-and-tear he (may have) racked up from those two seasons. Either way, I think they'd have been the *favorite* to win any of those rings, but that doesn't mean "they definitely would have."

[@yusufc1826]

There is a huge factor people dismiss: Championship fatigue. It's what makes 3peat such a unique thing.

[@Nick_Hammer]

I think the biggest question is would Jordan and company have had enough steam to play in 8 straight finals. I'm of the mind that Jordan playing baseball refreshed him enough to get that second three peat.

[@eddieG667]

@@Nick_Hammer I think he does have the steam. But his teammates and coaches? NO. Even the best dynasties faced inevitable burnout with their respective squads. The Lakers had a longer run in the 80s and they pretty much had full mutiny in 1990 with Pat Riley.

[@christianc.christian5025]

Yeah, I think it cuts both ways. Being game-raw in '95 is almost definitely why they lost when they did... No matter what anyone says, they lost close games at the end of the fourth quarter in positions where Michael Jordan very clearly seemed like he didn't have his wind. That said, tacking on an extra 30-ish playoff games plus two full regular seasons may have cut the cable earlier than 1998.

[@Cindoreye]

Even as a huge Jordan fan, I'm somewhat happy he left, and Hakeem got his chance to shine. Jordan, justifiably, overshadowed so many incredible players during his era. A match up beween the two would have been interesting considering they play different positions. The Rockets would be unable to stop Jordan, and the Bulls would have been unable to stop Hakeem so it would come down to the roll players, in my opinion. In that scenario, I'd give the edge to the Bulls.

[@JohnnyRodgers3]

So did bill russell 😂😂😂

[@MarkisKallos]

@@JohnnyRodgers3 what's bill got to do with this lbj fan 4 and 10 lil bro

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@Cindoreye Jordan never overshadowed Olajuwon and never kept him from doing anything. In fact, it was Olajuwon that never let Jordan take it personal against the Rockets until after they picked up Rodman and Olajuwon was breaking down physically

[@teamcaveman]

The bulls couldn’t stop any center. Just keep the damage down

[@fortynights1513]

In my book the 97 Rockets with Barkley, Hakeem, and Drexler vs the Bulls would’ve been a fun hypothetical final.

[@tillis31]

Spot-on Jonny! The points you made were absolutely 💯 valid and I agree. Both teams were better in ‘94 but Chi with the edge. Both worse in ‘95 but Hou with the edge.

[@noybnoyb356]

I agree with your assessment, and I say this as a Bulls fan who grew watching basketball during that era.

[@markjackson6431]

Horace Grant is the contributing factor to whether they win or not. he left the Bulls when MJ was gone thinking he wouldn’t come back. and that exposed the Bulls’ size weakness. thus they had to gamble on Rodman which help them win the second 3 peat. if Grant stays then who knows what happens in 1995 to 1998.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

The Magic would've swept the Bulls every season without Rodman

[@HiNRGboy]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 doubt it

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@HiNRGboy nobody cares what you doubt, the matchups prove you wrong

[@aaronhutchinson885]

​@@hakeemolajuwon4352they didn't sweep them in 95 without Rodman. Maybe, win. But not a sweep

[@Davivd2]

So Horace Grant is right. He did help MJ win more than he gets credit for. He was so helpful that not being on the team helped Jordan. Damn. I guess we need to put some more respect on his name. lol

[@catherinelynnfraser2001]

I think that if MJ had continued to play through the “retirement seasons”, his career might have played out very differently. The continued finals appearances are exhausting and even damaging. I think the retirement served Michael very well. I loved your take ❤on

[@golddiaries9196]

I think they win one out of those two. And to you Jonny it’s hard to find your type these days now social media is filled with toxic minds

[@Co-operativeStability50]

I respect this entire page.

[@IOSALive]

Jonny Arnett, nice content keep it up dude

[@ImportAl]

If Bulls kept Grant, yes. Kukoc and Kerr would have grown faster with Jordan AND Pippen pushing them sooner.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

If they kept Grant they would've got swept by the Magic every playoffs

[@MarkisKallos]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 sure bud

[@calofduti2595]

​@@hakeemolajuwon4352 how so?

[@reimixo]

​@@hakeemolajuwon4352because Logic does not exist right? Lol took them 6 without Grant and with Jordan playing 17 games before the playoffs lol now they take a player from the other team and they get swept lol a player that helped them win 3 straight lol

[@christianc.christian5025]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 Lmfao, did you even bother pretending you thought about that?

[@juicylla]

Thank you for another dope content, Johnny!

[@austin5801]

I’m of the belief that the bulls would have had no answer for Hakeem in 94. Jordan just came off of the 7 best seasons ever strung together. That break was necessary because you could tell he was burnt out from the effort he put forth. He came back a step slower but he needed that break.

[@aaronjykim]

A big part of why Jordan was particularly tired after the 93 season was that he just played two years of basketball basically without a break (due to not really having much of an off-season in 92 with the Olympics). He would have had a proper off-season in the summer of 93. He would have been fine in 94.

[@cjvaye99]

exactly

[@reimixo]

In 94 without Jordan they took the Knicks to 7, who.took the rockets to 7 in a close series ..... And whats the answer for MJ? Lol.... The Bulls were better...

[@reimixo]

​@@aaronjykim and let's not act like he was older lol, dude was 30yo....

[@Fldldk]

The bulls would have swept houston in 94. Stop it lmfao. The main reason jordan was tired in 93 was because of the 92 olympics. He would have had proper time to recover heading into 93-94.

[@ianmason2003]

As one of the biggest bulls and Jordan/pippen fans and an adult during this time. If he didn’t retire you could make an argument those last two rings may not have been one either. He would have been gassed by then, add in Pippen staying out most of 97-98, perhaps he still wouldn’t have gotten 6, especially 7 though.

[@aarontrainor9918]

The NBA would allowed them to win 8 in a row,Dennis would've went to Chicago sooner

[@Bigedub101]

​@aarontrainor9918 Wouldn't need Rodman if he had Grant, and they might not even made changes and other teams definitely would have

[@sentokigames151]

MJ did say he was gassed and wasn't positive they would have won. However Pippen did grow and with Kukoc and Kerr...MJ would have had a little more breathing room and rest.

[@seadubbya9209]

We don't even need to watch the entire video before we know it's a good one. Jonny just dropping a video makes it good. No the Bulls would not have beaten them both years. I'm not saying the Rockets win both, but it's hard to believe either wins both. The interesting thing is the Horace Grant situation. I'm not sure Grant leaves if Jordan doesn't leave first.

[@webslinger4733]

I think the Bulls win 94 bc of team chemistry and finals experience (think the ‘22 Warriors vs the Celtics) but it goes to 7 games Rockets win 95 in 5 or 4 games, assuming the Bulls even make the finals

[@Classicbasketballdvds]

I think if MJ never retired the 1st time in fall of 93, I think they win that chip in 94, but depending on if Horace stays or leaves, in 95, if Horace stays, I think they would still win, but if Horace still left after the 93-94 season, and they didn't acquire D-Rod, I think the Rockets win in 95, then the Bulls go on to 3peat from 96-98

[@IOSALive]

Jonny Arnett, amazing video bro

[@lankyhanky9772]

Worst sub botting I've ever seen oh my lord

[@jaycob1830]

The Bulls maybe win in 94, but I doubt it. Hakeem was on a mission in those seasons. Also winning title after title gets tiring. Even if they won in 94, I doubt they would’ve won 8 straight. Plus in the real timeline they already lost in 95 even with mike

[@mattsell2361]

Yeah anyone saying the bulls would just win 8 straight and dominate is crazy

[@fun-vids6669]

100 percent the same thing happens no matter what one player isn’t changing the course of history this is such a stupid debate

[@scottb3034]

@@fun-vids6669 ..... that is just brainless thinking. A 3 time MVP and the playoff MVP the last 3 seasons before this who is arguably the best player in the world isn't going to change the Bulls fortunes or a finals matchup outcome? That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. The 94 bulls get past the knick starting MJ instead of PETE MYERS. They probably beat the Pacers and they probably beat the Rockets who won in 7 games because John Starks decided to have the worst game of his life and go like 2-17 from the field that game. 1995 is another story if they had a mass exodus but they probably don't if they won 4 in a row and poised to try for five. I don't think horace has the guts to leave that for instance.

[@scottb3034]

They win in 94. 95 is a big question and not likely unless horace, scott williams come back and they get someone as a key bench player on the perimeter.

[@fun-vids6669]

@@scottb3034well it’s definitely not brain less after everything I said I forgot to mention that Chicago didn’t match up well against Houston at all, the 94 Rockets were better then the 95 team Hakeem also played better in 94 if they couldn’t beat the Magic in 95 they definitely were not beating the Rockets especially in 94 you have to give credit to that Houston team those two years Hakeem and Jordan were the best players at the time this wasn’t Charles Barkley and the Suns they would have faced

[@omegadigitalsolutions8675]

Scottie's 94 season is vastly underrated. The dunk on Ewing is top 10 all time, given it was Game 7. Absolutely one my favorites of all time. Rockets would've been a tough matchup.

[@amazingkook143]

I think 94 is a real possibility but afterwards I think their chances of winning drop a good bit because while MJ is one of the greatest winners of all time, he could probably not keep up this pace to win 7 championships. I think that they don't 3 peat in the late 90s but do get at least 1 more championship maybe even 2. MJ would finish with 5-6 rings and maybe 0-1 finals losses. The constant grind would have gotten to the Bulls and the talent pool of the 90s would have certainly given them a run for their money every single year.

[@IOSALive]

Jonny Arnett, awesome video I loved it

[@patoooo2]

What people don't take into account in this scenario is that a big part of why Jordan was able to win a 2nd three-peat is due to him ACTUALLY retiring in 93. Like sure, you can go ahead and play out the 94 and 95 finals with the Bulls + prime MJ against the Rockets and maybe he wins 1 of those but I just don't see him 3-peating again in 96-98. They definitely don't beat the Jazz twice, so if Jordan doesn't retire, I still have him winning 6 chips with them losing atleast 1 finals against both the Rockets and Jazz.

[@melvynsngltn27]

Why didn't Houston 3-peat or make the finals before? Houston wasn't that good

[@patoooo2]

@@melvynsngltn27 So you have to 3-peat to be considered good? Is that what you're saying?

[@Bigedub101]

EXACTLY PEOPLE also act like other teams just stay put and let Bulls win 8 str8. They gonna make trades to get better

[@jonoak]

​@Skip_Jaymz, you're just talking stop!

[@JD-gk7eh]

@@melvynsngltn27 Every team is not a winner until it is. There's a point where the team can't or doesn't win the championship and then it just does. Lots of variables need to line up to win a championship and that just doesn't happen for all but one team each year.

[@ClayHales]

My opinion is that if he never left he wins 4, maybe 5. The biggest factor being that I think with where he was as far as headspace, he needed that time away from basketball. Yeah, maybe 94, maybe even 95. But the other big factor is the Jerrys very possibly would have blown up the team after 4 or 5 straight. That idea is a big part of the story at the end of the second 3 peat.

[@lexkanyima2195]

But MJ has to be established as a icon

[@jaybrown7811]

YT really loves this guy

[@alex4833]

Great analysis and video, Jonny! I've gone back and forth about how many rings Chicago would've won if MJ didn't retire. Your case is compelling, and I can see them winning in 94 but losing in 1995. I also think it's feasible that they win 7 and with MJ at the helm, I definitely think it's probable. However, I do wonder about how exhausted the Bulls would be. Plus, there would be a lot of pressure after winning 4 straight and then going for a 3 peat. The Bulls handled pressure well, but the pressure and, probably more importantly, the exhaustion, would've been a factor. Great work again, Jonny. Have a great evening :).

[@lexkanyima2195]

In 1995 they would have won, if they had more balanced physical game

[@BernardRiley]

Take another bow. Great video!

[@beegeebad3193]

What you should focus on is a 1 year of absence in playing Basketball! Then returned 17 games regular season, given the fact that he wasnt 100 percent yet averaging 30pts. Now, what if he never retired, he wouldve never lost his prowess and mastery

[@cadecrusader]

Great video Jonny! 👍

[@themindgamer5084]

Thank you for another insightful content Jonny. Im always tuning in.

[@timmyg831]

At best MJ would win 7 rings. He wouldn’t win 8, Olajuwon was so extremely dominant at that time. He destroyed prime Robinson, Ewing and Shaq. He would’ve killed Bulls’ weak big men. Watching Olajuwon play then in the playoffs was awe inspiring.

[@melvynsngltn27]

No he didn't

[@aarontrainor9918]

Shaq wasn't able to win in Orlando and Inglewood thanks to Jordan and Hakeem

[@melvynsngltn27]

@aarontrainor9918 Shaq was able to win because he didn't have the best team and it wasn't his time to win just Like Jordan and Hakeem wasn't able to win thanks to Boston

[@letsgobrandon464]

It was amazing to be able to have watched Hakeem during the 90s those 94 and 95 teams were epic

[@AustinMulkaMusic]

Thank you for being objective about this. I know the Jordan Stans are going to go crazy, but the reason I’m subbed to your channel is because you are objective and based in reality. I agree with you on both accounts. I give Chicago -250 odds of winning in 94-55. And +300 odds of winning in 95-96.

[@animeguitarguy]

I cannot bet against MJ in the 90s

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

You weren't even alive to watch the 90s Bulls vs the Rockets

[@Skeiejs]

ye he faced the weakest competition ofa in an expansion era

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@Skeiejs that's completely false... You don't even know what expansion era means

[@MarkisKallos]

@@Skeiejs 'lebum fan detected'

[@xwiay3067]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352I mean not such a crazy take to have

[@Gaming_And_Chill]

Great video, I'm with you that they probably would've won in 94. But honestly, if MJ never retired I don't believe that they could've threepeated in 96-98. That would also change the GOAT debate completely.

[@Eazy6874]

Excellent topic as always! I give Chicago 1 out of 2

[@mickeylee2624]

Very compelling case for the Bulls winning in 1994. As mentally exhausted as MJ may have been, a 4-peat would have been tempting for his pride. In 1995, losing Horace but starting the sseason with MJ would have meant trying to swing a trade or free agent signing to stay in title contention. A notable inside player who ended up being available (via mid-season trade) was PF/C Kevin Willis, who would have cost some players but would have beefed up their rebounding and interior defense.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@mickeylee2624 bro Y'all just making up any damn thing you can imagine!

[@mickeylee2624]

This is all hypotheticals as part of a simulational exercise so calm down,@@hakeemolajuwon4352.

[@scottb3034]

he also would have been able to coast that entire year making it a break without taking a break. Bulls could have won 65 even with him playing only 35 minutes a game which is a vacation for him.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@scottb3034 y'all are delusional

[@scottb3034]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 the team make up would be identical to the team that won 72 and 69 games but younger. How is that delusional? Sounds like you live in a dream world no pun.

[@benjaminalatise4512]

Always lookin forward for new videos 🎉

[@eljeer123]

Great conversation and video as always brother. I have it reversed. I have the Rockets in 94 and Bulls in 95 with MJ both series.

[@markkevnjflores]

This is why I considered Jordan as the goat, because there are literally hundreds of amazing players that were overshadowed because of Jordan’s greatness

[@MJIZZEL]

As a person thats played both competitive baseball and basketball, i damn sure couldn't just drop the bat and pick up the ball. When i tried it was like my handles were gone and i was a pg. The ball didnt bounce right it felt like and my shots were way off due to my upper body being much stronger. It shows the pure basketball talent that Jordan was. He could actually do that and still be an allstar level pl.

[@damonsonnier34]

11:03 These clips were from a game on January 19th, 1997. Charles Barkley was on the sideline due to an ankle injury against the Jazz a few days prior. Dennis Rodman was on the sideline due to serving an 11 game suspension after kicking cameraman, Eugene Amos against the Timberwolves a couple of days prior. Hakeem Olajuwon had a fantastic game that day against Bill Wennington, as this was his stat line: Hakeem: 32PTS, 16REB, 4AST, 4STL, 5BLK, 56FG%. The Rockets won the game in a blowout 102-86.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@damonsonnier34 and that was a past his prime Olajuwon after his injuries started piling up on him

[@Davivd2]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 Hakeem was a bad man.

[@jackwalsh6758]

1996-1998 Chicago were 5-1 against Houston, this is the 1 game they lost.

[@scottb3034]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 mostly because the bulls were on an historic coldspell to end that game. they didn't score the last like 7 minutes of that game except for a meaningless dunk by Randy Brown with 10 seconds left. They actually had the lead 84-83 with 7 minutes left when that happened. Meaning it was a fluke game.

[@Four-PointPlay]

This is a crazy coincidence johnny im a new creator and you inspired me, my first video was on Olajuwon

[@kdnladner93]

Great video! I’d love to see another hypothetical. What if Hakeem, MJ, and Charles Barkley decided to join forces after 6 years of failing to win a championship to form a super team similar to Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. What team are they all going to and how successful do you think they can be.

[@KeyTez]

Everything you said was facts!!

[@benberry792]

The thing is about changing the timeline, keep Grant & no Rodman? Too many variables to accurately say... But still fun. Keep em coming Jonny! ❤ the videos

[@scottb3034]

assuming grant avoids the injuries he had in orlando he was almost as good as rodman was. you trade some rebounding for a lot more scoring and shot blocking.

[@crosswiz6]

Definitely would've won 8. Jordan was unstoppable and people doubting him would've only made him take it personal 💀

[@awesomereviews1561]

Fair assessment.

[@reeceaguilar8374]

Yea that 94 bulls team would definitely have been the deepest one we'd ever seen especially with Cartright plus Horace and BJ, Kerr, and Kukoc shooting 3s. The rockets had a deep bench, but this would have been an all time deep roster for the bulls in 94. I agree with the take on 95. It is worth noting that the Rockets lost some depth like losing Maxwell, but the matchup issue would cause so many problems with rebounding and such.

[@scottb3034]

scott williams was actually the bulls best center from 1991-94 not cartwright. that shows how strong their front court was back then.

[@minjod]

10 championships in 8 years. No competition

[@jarlbalgruuf7701]

Interesting to think this Bulls team hypothetically had decent chances to win 10 straight titles assuming most things lined up how it did in our timeline. 1990 if they hadn’t had some bad luck, 94-95 and 1999 had Jordan not retired. Obviously they lost in the East in 1990 so that never happened and it’s unlikely they win 94,95 and 99. add on top of that other factors like fatigue, championship complacency ect. Incredibly unlikely. But hey, maybe it happened in an alternate timeline haha.

[@aarontrainor9918]

The NBA should've allowed 1990-1999 for the Bulls to Own

[@jeremylantrip5986]

Jordan and Olajuwon are my 2 fav players and I completely agree with this!

[@willingexile3374]

The Knicks topped the East in '93 and lost the top-seed tiebreaker in '94 to Atlanta. The Pacers were also frisky in '94. The chances of the Bulls advancing are pretty strong since the Knicks clinched their series in seven games (without Jordan). The Rockets were a bad match-up for the Bulls; the Bulls were 2-6 against the Rockets from the 89-90 to 92-93 seasons. Hakeem was a match-up nightmare for the Bulls centers. It would likely have been the toughest Finals match-up for the Bulls in the Jordan era. In the 2-3-2 format and Rockets holding home court, Rockets win. If the Bulls managed to get homecourt, Bulls win. 1994-95 without Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong the Bulls still lose even if they got all the way to the Finals.

[@scottb3034]

BJ was on the bulls in 1995..... he was an expansion casualty in 1996. Still, steve kerr, kukoc and the added big man depth in 1994 make it almost a lock the bulls win. 1995 is tougher because they essentially lost every bigman except longley and wennington. Scott Williams was actually the Bulls best center from 1991-94 and he left. He would have mitigated grant's loss if they kept him.

[@willingexile3374]

Duly corrected on BJ. =) They still had Perdue and Simpkins, but that wouldn't do much for Chicago. I also remember now that Bill Cartwright left as a free agent, though he wasn't a big loss except for six hard fouls. The second Rockets champion team ramped up during the playoffs, especially Hakeem. They just peaked at the right time. The reason I don't like the Bulls' chances is that Orlando was really good that year, and if the Bulls do survive them (or the Knicks/Pacers), they would be hard-pressed to beat Houston.

[@scottb3034]

BJ was on the team in 1995 as well. The guys that left after 1994 were Scott Williams, Cartwright, Paxson and Grant. Also, there was no danger of not being able to acquire Kukoc since he was drafted by the team years earlier and thus the Bulls owned his rights.

[@sydoesgames]

bulls have no answer for hakeem, he would be by far the best matchup that jordan faced. this would probably be the game 7 series in the finals, and the rockets were 7-1 against jordan before he left for baseball. i think theyd each win one championship. rockets would most likely win with that drexler team

[@XaviorJordan]

Agreed. The Bulls did not match up well with that Rockets squad. Full of young energetic guys and the best interior defender ever not named Wilt or Bill.

[@scottb3034]

bulls split the series without him in 94 and would go on a 7-3 run against houston from 94-98 including 2-2 without him those first 2 years. but yes, a split happens if things were identical to how they panned out just with jordan not retiring

[@jeremyrodriguez6760]

If you watched any of the games that they played against each other from 91 through 93 you would see how they actually matched up with each other. The Rockets could actually slow MJ down. Hakeem made him think twice before driving to the basket and Vernon Maxwell would piss him off so much that MJ would abandon the triangle and make it a 1 on 1. The Rockets also disrupted the passing lanes just as good as any defensive teams in the history of the NBA. They got a lot of quick pick sixes on the Bulls and a lot of deflections that led to long outlet passes for uncontested layups. On the other end the Bulls literally had nothing for Hakeem. Phill Jackson left his centers out there alone with him most of the time because anytime the Bulls double teamed him Hakeem would pass out to the perimeter for a 3. Their inside out game is what the basket ball gods imagined when they invented the universe. So the Rockets already had the head to head advantage through those three years, then you add Sam Cassell in 94? The Rockets take it in 94 in 5 games. If Horace stays on the Bulls + Kukoc, against the 95 Rockets finals line up, The bulls win in 6-7. Without Horace, the Rockets in 6.

[@frankcloutier5495]

All of that is true, but Jordan's history as a winner will always give the Bulls the edge to me

[@jeremyrodriguez6760]

@frankcloutier5495 I understand that, and that's most people's take on this subject. The problem with that is that we aren't talking about Jordan vs. Hakeem. Hakeem didn't just make Jordan a jump shooter. He shut down the entire triangle by taking away the paint while still being able to turn Purdue and Cartrights midrange jumpers into passes..... that his teammates would jump all over for easy defensive scores. People just don't understand how fatal of a mismatch Hakeem was for the Bulls. He didn't just 'get his'. He frustrated them on defense and absolutely demoralized them on offense. But again, I get why people lean towards the Bulls in these hypotheticals. They haven't seen the head to head match-up. I mean, even this video itself only talks about the Bulls line up and does nothing to break down the Rockets roster. Without breaking down the x' and o's of the match up on the floor or even having any curiosity as to how the Rockets beat the Bulls so consistently, people are always going to favor Jordan's visually appealing highlights over the Rockets methodical ownage of the Bulls in this hypothetical.

[@cuernimus]

I think the Rockets win most games in 94 against the Bulls, their 3 point shooting depth combined with Hakeem is just something the Bulls were unequipped to deal with. However, the Bulls are going to have home court advantage because they would have a better record, so it's really hard for me to say who wins in a best of 7. It really ultimately comes down to how well Vernon Maxwell plays, not MJ. Mad Max was one of the most frustrating players to watch, especially as a Rockets fan. When he was at his best, he was almost Jordan's equal; basically Rodman's smothering, frustrating defense and a great slasher and 3 point shooter. But then the next game or even next quarter, he'd brick all his shots and make a bunch of stupid fouls and remove himself from the game.

[@scottb3034]

kukoc is the X-factor if anyone is. But the bulls have the position by position advantage at every spot but center and have a deeper bench. It really isn't that much of a debate in 94.

[@cuernimus]

@@scottb3034 Mad Max was the second best player on the Rockets, and one of the few players to ever score 30+ points in a quarter. He also tried to stab Hakeem once. Kukoc was coming off the bench. Kukoc was not going to have the potential to impact the series in the same way as someone that crazy. As for the debate, the Rockets were the best 3 point shooting team in the NBA up to that point, combined with Hakeem's difficult but mostly unstoppable offense meant that when they played to their full potential, they were unbeatable by teams of that era. They also could have gotten swept in a completely forgettable series if they weren't hitting their shots.

[@scottb3034]

@@cuernimus Otis Thorpe was the 2nd best player. He did multiple things well not just streak scoring and he didn't pout his way off the team. Kukoc is almost exactly a mirror of Maxwell in his streak scoring. Except he was good at creating off the dribble for others. Toni playing well or not was a total X-Factor. He proved his value in his own way in the pacers and jazz series later in the dynasty. But yes the rocket were total feast or famine that made them horrible or amazing.

[@cuernimus]

​@@scottb3034 Otis Thorpe was definitely a consistent and underrated part of that team, but I don't think he had the offense to keep them in a game, much less carry them over the 90s Bulls. Maxwell could step up if Hakeem or the other three point shooter were not producing, but it's a huge question of if he would, hence my original comment.

[@chuckiebomaye]

Man that 94 team tell me a lot about why Jordan was so dominant as far as team winning

[@davidpasztoy9226]

I have been wondering for a while about how much the perception of supporting players influenced by if their superstar team mate was able to will them to championship or not. I know it would be a huge task but I would love to see a video about this

[@Hinshu85]

It's one of the biggest if's ever. It would be a fun series though.

[@dylaneverhartmusic]

I would love to see a what if video "What If the 90s Bulls had a legitimate centre?"

[@RomaroBrandon]

IMO yes because Michael Jordan is THE GOAT

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

Olajuwon owned Jordan

[@MarkisKallos]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 sure buddy count rinsg mvps bud

[@MarkisKallos]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 dirk owns leflop

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@MarkisKallos that's great, but Olajuwon owns Jordan and even Jordan will tell you

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@MarkisKallos Olajuwon whooped Jordan 11-5 before he retired and then it took Jordan's super team to still have a career losing record to Olajuwon. Olajuwon didn't have Pippen or Grant to help him out, and he still owned all 3 of them

[@michaelbritt7397]

I agree with you about the four peat. I have to wonder after not winning the following year if some dominoes may have changed preventing the next three peat. Maybe the Jazz win one of that timeline.

[@bronzremix]

94 was The Dream season... but Bulls would have still took it. 95 without a doubt.

[@MasterSpade]

If Jordan never retires, he's not losing to that Houston team, so he wins 8 Titles in a row from 1991-1998. Then, 1999 and its shortened season would be PERFECT for Jordan and the Bulls, and they win their 9th Title right there.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@MasterSpade you obviously weren't even alive when Kobe was drafted, you have no idea what you're talking about. Olajuwon owned Jordan

[@CHI-JORDAN-CHI]

@@hakeemolajuwon4352 yeah Hakeem owned him so much that he constantly lost to teams that MJ beat in the finals 😂 I was around then. Hakeem is great. Nowhere near Jordan. No one has him in the goat conversation but you. Almost all fans have MJ as the goat. Cry harder.

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@CHI-JORDAN-CHI SMH Olajuwon beat every team Jordan beat in the Finals and playoffs and no you weren't around back then cuz even Chicago home announcers would tell you that Olajuwon owned Jordan. Olajuwon beat far better teams than Jordan ever beat like the 86' defending champ Showtime Lakers at age 23! That's why Olajuwon averaged 4spg and 5 blocks per game against the Bulls sometimes blocking Jordan 4 times in one game.

[@arizonaFIREent]

Jordan quit after winning 3 chips two times to think he'd win 8 straight is delusional he quit after 3

[@hakeemolajuwon4352]

@@arizonaFIREent he didn't quit he retired. I don't think he would've won even 4 in a row, but to say he quit after winning 3 rings and his dad getting unalived is dishonest and untrue

[@cheap272]

people thinking the bulls make it past the magic and rockets both years are smoking crack

[@zaden176]

Im with you , i have always believed that the 93-94 would have been the only yr the bulls could have beaten the Rockets for the reasons you mentioned. Now something not everyone knows or remembers is H.Grant had agreed to come back only to back out and sign with Orlando so i honestly believe he would have still left in 94-95 the bulls would have lost to Houston and still acquired D.Rodman and go on to do what they did.

[@scottb3034]

on the contrary. I think horace doesn't leave if jordan stays and they win 4 in a row. That gives him a chance at immortality only 2 other teams have experienced to this day and the amount of guts it would take and the public image hit he would take for leaving winning for money would be too much. i think ultimately horace cracks and comes back. Now if they lost in 95 then i think he leaves for money.

[@zaden176]

@scottb3034 yes I agree with you and even though I didn't say it That's What I believe they would have won in 94 with the team intact + the additions of Tony and Steve but would have lost in 95 the Rockets themselves got better with the addition of Clyde and we really didn't get better they lose in 95 causing Grant to leave the Bulls aquire Dennis with the ultimate goal of avenging their loss in the playoffs and re energized and the rest plays out Like it did. Anyways that has always been my thought but who really knows it never really happened

[@scottb3034]

@@zaden176 yeah true. Good comment

[@GrantH]

Bulls vs. Rockets in this era is the Finals series we never got but we deserved. They would’ve been the team in the West most likely to take down the Bulls in a series for sure.

[@SamD-fc8vq]

Honestly I think Jordan most iconic playoff run wouldve been if he won a chip with the wizards. I know its a one in a billion possibility but still. Think about how they would talk about jordan now if he won a chip in 02. I know that woudlve been better than winning with the bulls. Just beacuse of the narrative. Theyd be saying he was so dominant he just left the front iffice and decided to win another chip . Then again after 02 even if he won the chip he probably wouldve had worse body problems than kobe trying to carry the lakers to the finals on a jacked up body. Hed be like ronnie coleman photos after his career

[@mcintma2]

I agree, the fairest view on this is the Bulls/Rockets probably split the 2 Chips Hakeem got. I'm thinking the 94 Bulls team, still with Horace, would've won. The 95 team with no Horace or Rodman likely loses, also exhaustion of 4 straight Chip runs for the Bulls.

[@killamanjaro4606]

no one could stop Dream

[@logicaldude3611]

I don’t think MJs athleticism ever recovered from his 18 months playing baseball. He was a lot more polished when the 1996 season started, but his insane athleticism had taken a dip. He was still a freak of nature, but he was never the same as before.

[@alexlanza79]

As a Bulls and MJ fan I’d love to think about 8 straight rings but I do agree with you. The only thing to consider in this hypothetical scenario, is that in 94-95 season I want to believe Krause would maybe acquire a center or a pf to complete the roster so the Bulls would may not be that weak. Also in this “reality” I don’t know if the Bulls would be able to win another 3 straight to get to 8, I say this ‘cause already win 3 straight plus other 3 straight in possibility the toughest era was unreal, win 8 straight would be almost impossible from a mental standpoint more than anything else, but for sure in that case at least we wouldn’t have to listen to any kind of Goat debate as MJ would have also 2 more scoring title (so 12 straight!!!!) and at least one more season MVP and 2 more finals MVP!!!

[@gold-man9]

@JonnyArnett can you do a video where you analyze college classes and rank the top 10 amateur us olympic teams if the Olympics could happen every year?

[@b_side8669]

Now in the 94 to 95 season the East was loaded back then you had the bulls with or even without Jordan had to contend with the likes of the knicks , magic , pacers , jazz , hawks ,heat , nets , cavs , Supersonics ,trailblazers list goes on . hell not even my Celtics or lakers couldn’t of played out of a wet paper bag back then the way they we’re stinking up the joint

[@BulletBill-yb3ti]

In this hypothetical the 95 Rockets likely win. 5 games or a sweep. 95 Rockets swept the team that beat the Bulls with Jordan. (Baseball excuses are weak). Plus if Jordan stayed this is now the 5th consecutive finals they make which is a lot of mileage. The Bulls did not have Horace and Rodman was not there yet. Hakeem would feast on the Bulls front court. 95 finals Hakeem was 33/12/6/2/2 vs Shaq and Horace 95 west finals Hakeem was 35/13/5/1/4 vs David (Rodman did not really help but still cooking peak David Robinson means the Bulls front court has no chance) If they dare single cover Hakeem he may go for 40/15 a night. If they double him too often he is finding the shooters. Then you still have Drexler who was 20/7/5/2/1 in the 95 playoffs. He was not Jordan but still an elite presence that either Jordan or Pippen would have to take on for long stretches. Then you still had the shooters for Houston. 94 Rockets is a toss up likely a close 7 game series where a play or 2 decides the winner. 94 Rockets got taken to 7 by the Knicks who could never get past the Bulls with Jordan. The Jordan-less Bulls even took this Knicks team to 7. These Bulls had Horace and the Rockets did not have Drexler yet. Hakeem still cooks but lacking Drexler means the Bulls can focus more on Houston's shooters.

[@roukenthesaiyan]

I would argue that if Pippen doesnt get that migraine in 1990, they 5peat but fall short in 95 with the absence of Horace. Also think the wouldve make the 99 Finals if they stay on more year but lose to the Spurs in the Finals. MJ wouldve been a legit 8-1 in the Finals. (He doesnt reach Finals in 95?

[@MrG2U]

What's so crazy is I can see both sides of the debate....another thing that's crazy is the rockets had issues with the sonics...and the bulls took care of them

[@2k-Blade]

If you see this, thank you. I am truely a massive Hakeem fan. Parents talked about the experience in Houston after we won 2x. Even though we aren’t super great, I’ll always be a Houston rocket. I truely believe Hakeem is better than Shaq and besides KAJ, Hakeem is the most skillful center of all time.

[@jasonnelson6624]

He absolutely is better than Shaq. I also believe Hakeem is more skilled than Kareem but obviously kareem had longevity. Interesting you didnt mention Wilt but that might be going too far back for you? Me personally I have Wilt then Hakeem.

[@BulletBill-yb3ti]

​@@jasonnelson6624 Peak I would go 1. Wilt, then 2. Hakeem, then 3. Kareem. At their best Wilt and Hakeem were the best 2 way centers ever. Wilt was a top 2 defensive player while being the best offensive player. Hakeem was the best defensive player while being a top 3 offensive player.

[@jasonnelson6624]

@@BulletBill-yb3ti yeah completely agree. Its a shame that it was decided for Wilt to stop scoring. To your point a lot of people overlook how rare it is to be the best score and lead in defensive stats. He might be the only one. To lead in scoring, rebounds, and unofficially blocks. I know hakeem lead in blocks but I don't think he lead in scoring across all positions. But after Wilt, Hakeem was probably the most complete center offensively and defensively. I would have liked to seen a young Robinson with a legitimate scoring option. To see if he really did shrink in the playoffs or was that the effect of having to do too much? Honestly I could see either one being true.

[@nigelee]

I watched the 94 Finals, and I've never seen a player win a championship with less help than Hakeem. The Rockets played like trash around him. Smith and Maxwell got completely outplayed on both ends by Starks and Harper. Horry spent the series shooting bricks. Thorpe and Oakley cancelled each other out. Cassell did ok coming off the bench, but Mario Elie did eff all. It all came down to Hakeem, and he was magnificent on both ends. I have no doubt the Bulls would have beaten the 94 Rockets; too small on the perimeter to contain MJ, completely dependent on Hakeem in the post for points. The 95 Rockets are a different story. The 5 out lineup, playing without a PF, gave Hakeem more space to operate. Clyde Drexler provided size, rebounding, and a pick and pop partner for Hakeem, forcing defenses to choose between a Clyde drive or an open Hakeem jump shot. His ability to score in the post meant that the Rockets could run the same plays for Clyde that they did with Hakeem, giving Olajuwon a chance to get some rest. Horry and Elie developed into legit 3 and D wings, and Maxwell abandoning the team gave more play time to Cassell, who was a better player anyway. I don't think even the Bulls have enough defense to keep a lid on them, especially with Bill Cartwright's arthritic carcass at center.

[@melvynsngltn27]

NY was trash outside of Ewing

[@nigelee]

@@melvynsngltn27 They were a tough, tough defensive team. Big and physical. Derek Harper was an excellent two way guard, and rare for that time, a legit 3 point threat. Before his meltdown in Game 7 Starks was their best player. Patrick was the star, but he got outplayed by Hakeem. Harper, Starks and Oak made up the difference.

[@melvynsngltn27]

@user-nu7on8ob4m they were an average team with no offense a bunch of hackers on defense

[@nigelee]

@@melvynsngltn27 They definitely weren't fun to watch, I'll give you that, but they made excellent foils for Hakeem. He got to show off the whole bag against them.

[@melvynsngltn27]

Yet Houston & NY were similar in some ways and even match up Hakeem was the X-factor. I nice competitive series for two NBA legends

[@Fernando-vg4ym]

After reading most of the comments, one thing sticks out in my mind. MJ's desire and will to win. Nobody mentions that. No player before, or after, has ever had that will, that need, to win. I'm not a gambler but, if I was, I would never have bet against MJ.

[@dbztitan]

Too many variables to consider honestly, and many of them were pointed out in other comments. One thing I would mention is that the '95 run for the Rockets was a tough one, but the Jazz won 59 games, the Suns 60 games, and the Spurs 62 games. Their finals opponent (Magic) had the least wins of any team they faced - and they won 57. It could've been, top to bottom, the toughest finals run in history, one they closed out sweeping the team that beat Jordan's Bulls. If the Rockets in '95 swept Shaq/Grant in the finals, I don't see why it would've been any different in '94 when the Bulls had Grant. That said, if the Bulls lost in '94 with Jordan still there, he may have been invigorated to win in '95 (as he was after the loss to the Magic). Ultimately, the Bulls would've had a chance certainly. But I doubt they would've been massive favorites in '94 - Rockets won 58 games, so I'd probably say the Bulls would've been -200 or so given their three-peat. And if they lost, they likely would've been underdogs in '95.

[@luddite4change449]

Over their six championship seasons, the Bulls had a winning record against every team in the NBA except 1. That team was the Rockets, and the W/L record includes a season when the didn't make the playoffs.

[@scottb3034]

Bulls were .500 against the Rockets during the 6 championship years... that is technically a winning record so IDK where you are getting your information. I guess the Rockets should thank their lucky stars they held on for a 3 pt win in 1992. Jordan did not play the Rockets in his come back year.

[@ajfrancisco7726]

I remember the mindset of Chicago during the 95 season, their on a verge of a rebuilt coz Pip was getting very difficult already and the team was under achieving, Jerry was already contemplating on trading him, if Jordan was there from the start I think Kruss would have surrounded the team with better or at least at par with the talent of BJ and Horace and they would have still completed better and with Jordan's mindset

[@jiwmn]

Two factors I think are huge to what Jordan would be able to do if not retired. He was not playing basketball for the stretch of his baseball career, so he lost the routine there. That he was able to come back so quick when he actually did, is a sign of his will, work ethic and focus. But he never reached that level again. I am pretty confident in my opinion that if he never left, he would’ve played like in 93‘ and that was an unstoppable version of him. Second factor is the will to win. To repeat and repeat again is hard, but to do it 8 times in a row, I cannot see that. Even Jordan himself said, if there was a moment he couldn’t challenge himself to get better, he stepped away from the game. Jordan was on the top all of his NBA career and he never choked, so if one man would be able to do that, then it might be MJ.

[@highlanderc]

physical shape... to a degree... MENTAL SHAPE was the most important...

[@vladleon2307]

Hard to say. Bulls split Ws agains Rockets in 93/94 and 94/95 seasons and Hakeem had some bad games versus bulls without MJ. In two of this games he had too many turnovers - 7 and 8. In other one he was shooting 2/18. I guess couch Phil had some ideas about stoping Hakeem.

[@McGomezAddams]

All I see in the comments is "if Jordan never retired he'd be 9-0". Come on man, he got eliminated in the 95 playoffs.

[@XaviorJordan]

MJ actually playing and losing in 1995 might be the most ignored fact in NBA history. I never understood the argument of 8-0 because he actually played, put up great numbers and lost. People seriously act like it never happened.

[@scottb3034]

@@XaviorJordan if you can't see how the season would be different if he never retired or played the entire year then you don't understand basketball dynamics.

[@davidstumpfl5889]

Rockets were just a bad match up for the Bulls. While Hakeem isn't Shaq, an inside out strategy would have worked perfectly against the Bulls. You'd basically need to Hack-a-Hakeem to have a hope and if Grant or Cartwright were fouled out, then you'd have no hope. Plus I do think that people forget how good that Rockets supporting cast was. You can't ever win a Championship with only one good player. It takes a team.

[@scottb3034]

No you wouldn't need a hack-a-hakeem...you would just need to keep the group of Horry, Cassell, maxwell and Smith in check which the Bulls have the capability of doing with their defensive backcourt. The Magic had complete control of the Rockets in game 1 and lost by allowing them to come back with their long range shooting minus maxwell. The same thing happened in 1994 by allowing Cassell and Horry to go off repeatedly. Hakeem did not win those alone, it was the deep shooting that made the difference and the Bulls were defensive unlike the Magic and much better offensively than the knicks. Also, Scott Williams was the best center the bulls had, not bill cartwright. He was a huge factor in 92 and 93 playoffs. And the Bulls were flush with big men. Luc Longley, Cartwright, williams, grant, perdue, wennington, etc. They lost half those guys in 1995 including their two best grant and williams. BTW, after 1993 the Bulls were 7-3 against the Rockets, half those years were against rockets championship rosters where they were 4-2. So much for bad matchup.

[@GhostNinjaTactical]

So I’m from Chicago and I grew up during this era, and I know for a fact MJ would’ve gotten the most out of some of the bigs like Larry Krystowiak, Corie Blount, Greg Foster, and Luc Longley(who u forgot to mention). The overall team iq and killer instinct they had as a squad are reasons I’d never bet against MJ and Scottie.

[@entium1]

I think they would have gotten someone to replace the inside presence once they lost Horace if Jordan was there. Not sure who, can't remember the free agency was like back then lol but it would have been a must. Cause after Horace left, that's when they wanted to rebuild after the next season.

[@DaD-xx7vr]

Hakeem was awesome but yes, it would have be 8 in a row for the Bulls, no doubt.

[@alejanoelallen1952]

🏀

[@marcmata5574]

The real question is his motivation for leaving. Because I genuinely believe that his father's death was the biggest, if not the sole reason why he quit. I think that had he chosen to stay after his father's passing, we would have witnessed a prime Jordan, even more motivated to win in dedication to his father. All bets are off because that would be the ultimate case of MJ taking something personally.

[@theconservativechristian]

I think Jordan coming off of 93 when he was averaging 41 points a game in the finals would have upped his game would have broke his record of 63 points in a finals game, and I do think that he was not in complete basketball shape when he returned with 17 games left in the 95 season and yes the 31 points per game in the Matchup against the Magic was impressive and numbers superstars only dream about but he did sit out one and more than a half seasons playing baseball. There is a reason not many players will go from basketball to baseball but you will see football players play in baseball because of the brute strength and athletic transition works more for football and baseball. When Jordan left in 93 he was in his prime, I think Jordan would have carried the Bulls to 8 in a row but that's just my opinion obviously this is all hypothetical.

[@RealBlueony]

Honestly, beyond 1993-94, it's almost impossible to say whether they would have won if MJ hadn't retired; the roster construction becomes so much harder to say where it would have gone, and even if they had everything stay the same roster-wise, and hell, even if Horace Grant stays in Chicago, I find it hard to believe that they would have won 8 straight. For one, they would have played a cumulative total of 10 seasons in those 8 years by the end (~20 playoff games a year), and so durability and just general maintenance would have been sacrificed. IMO, if Jordan never retires, they lose in '96 to the Sonics, which was probably already the closest final the 90s Bulls played in. As for '97 and '98, it also becomes far more possible that nagging injuries and the weight of all that playoff basketball would have given the Jazz one of those series, particularly in '98. Ultimately, I think 6 rings is most likely, 7 is the best case scenario, and 8 would have been storybook, but we don't live in a storybook. Nothing ever quite turns out how we want it to.

[@bejordan23]

I have to say that he’s the Bulls would’ve won in 94’, but I have to imagine Krause would’ve saw that they needed more help in the center position if Grant still left if they played against the rockets the previous season. So I have to imagine maybe Rodman comes a year sooner or they acquire another big to help out during the offseason or during the ‘95 season. It’s pretty tough to say, but a Prime MJ would be pretty hard to beat.

[@Adamwinters]

Bulls might have won 94 or 95 or even both, but I don't see them winning then and still winning 96-98. Jordan needed a break, roster needed a minor refresh, and Pippen needed to learn his place.

[@jonahsingman8229]

Jonny, you talk about MJ teaming up with a prime Scottie Pippen in 1994, but I don't think Scottie Pippen would have reached his prime if Jordan were still there.

[@AmasBansalArt]

Lack of motivation from achieving what Bird and Magic couldn't (3-Peat), extreme fatigue from going to 5 straight CFs, 3 of which were NBA finals...AND going up against a centre-orientated team in Houston which the Bulls struggled with throughout the intervening years in the reg. season - leads me to believe that the Houston Rockets would have dethroned the Bulls in 7 games.

[@scottb3034]

bulls were 7-3 vs houston from 1993-94 to 98.

[@AmasBansalArt]

@@scottb3034 prior years my point. So they would have lost.