Torchwood: Children of Earth - The Darkest Thing EVER in the Doctor Who Universe

[@nathanyou1899]

For me this is the perfect Torchwood story, one that fits so well into the doctor who universe but could never be told on doctor who itself.

[@aspetty]

Respectfully disagree. This is one of the most flawed series ever. The Jack not calling Martha on her honeymoon is complete bs. You call her. You have her call the Doctor. Will he be insanely angry with Jack. Yes, but would he say no to saving millions of children? No. He would step up and show why he is The Doctor. He would do everything he could to save everyone where everything. Instead because of shame, or horribly bad and contrived writing, he did nothing even after Yanto's death and it resulted something far far worst for him. If you have such a way to get hold of him, you call him. This want like the events in the first two series. This was days. They had so much time to get hold of him and it kept getting worst. Yes humanity should learn to handle itself, but there are times where we would need help and guidance. This series made no sense to me.

[@hunterhorsehelmsley7315]

@@aspetty Unless of course, the 456 incident was a fixed point in time. In that case, it's impossible for the Doctor to do anything. Also, The Doctor turning away in disgust was entirely Gwen's theory, she's only met him once and it was just a few lines, she has no idea who he is. It was a clever writing tactic to convey how ashamed she personally was with her fellow humans.

[@joshuabennett1756]

I completely agree @Nathan you because if you think about it torchwood is a show mainly for young adults and adults etc where doctor who is a show aimed towards a younger audience for me if the 456 would to make an appearance on doctor who it would just terrify the kids

[@ginge641]

@@joshuabennett1756 Spoken like someone who's never seen Doctor Who.

[@k.sansome.141]

@aspetty CoE is post-Waters of Mars. The Doctor basically abandoned modern Earth in 2009 pretty much until Christmas. He spent his time with Elizabeth I along with other things. The only reason the Doctor came back was because he was terrified about the Master's return.

[@jordansimpson9569]

I love the line that Gwen says. “I wanted to know about that Doctor of his. The man who appears out of nowhere and saves the world. Except sometimes he doesn't. All those times in history when there was no sign of him, I wanted to know why not. But I don't need to ask any more. I know the answer now. Sometimes the Doctor must look at this planet and turn away in shame.” It shows that even if the doctor tried to come and saw his precious race that he saved over and over again. Rounding up their children for sacrifice and their own selfish desire to survive. Even a man with 900+ years of experience and intellect, would turn in disgust

[@jadenbryant9283]

Jordan Simpson or he simply didn’t know what was happening on earth

[@lucasaymeric9627]

I do think that even if he was disgusted, which is understandable, he would have come to save the day as always, I know it can sound naive but I can't figure the Doctor abandonning all the children of earth on purpose, he was probably not aware of that. I like to believe that maybe it happened during his eleventh incarnation, just after Amy and Rory's death, so he probably didn't even know something happened or maybe he knew after and he couldn't go back through time to fix it, all paradox things, anyway, that's my theory

[@lucasaymeric9627]

@@creed8712 or maybe it was too much important events for hil to get involved, like in the episode "Kill the Moon" where he explains some events have to be fixed vy humans and he can't get involved because the choices made could change the entire history of mankind, and indeed they seem important enough to me, in one case you hace to choose either or not give away thirty five children and in the other one you have to choose if you let the humans becoming immortals or if you bring death back to earth, these seem pretty big choices to me

[@Brogan_Balfour_Crescent]

@@lucasaymeric9627 I think they were fixed points in time, like why he doesn't go back and stop the World Wars or any disaster in history.

[@evanholdsworth6804]

I’ve always loved the line from Idris (embodied by the TARDIS) from the Doctors Wife: “I always took you where you needed to go.” The TARDIS didn’t need to take the Doctor to this place and time because it knew it was going to be solved by Captain Jack. This covers all the plot holes in the spin offs that give the question where the hell was the Doctor?

[@rogvortex58]

I’ll say this for RTD. He knew how to bring the pain and tragedy where Torchwood was concerned.

[@lwaves]

I like Torchwood as a whole, it has it's ups and downs but when they originally announced Torchwood as being darker and aimed at adults, this is the type of story I wanted. The type of story that DW could never do justice to or even tackle. I don't want to say that I liked that the kids were in danger but there was a time where kids and pets were effectively untouchable. You couldn't have anything really bad happen to them on-screen. This was a refreshing change from that, which was still a way of thinking at that time, but was slowly changing.

[@magus104]

everyone was like RTD can only do light and fluffy. RTD: Hold my beer

[@lwaves]

@@magus104 There's some truth to that for DW but obviously this isn't DW, so he can let go a lot more.

[@itsonlysound]

Thats RTD's thing with all his shows. Even Queer As Folk. He's similar to Joss Whedon in that regard, where you're always prepared for the other shoe to drop.

[@arubinojr5670]

Yeah, I can only imagine what those preparing themselves for Sexy Adventures in Time and Wales: Season 3 were expecting, but I loved it and never want to watch it again.

[@direnova6284]

When it turned out they were taking the kids for a buzz I was so impressed at how that cranked up the horror. Whoever thought that up is a story telling genius.

[@UltimateKyuubiFox]

It was all RTD.

[@hunterhorsehelmsley7315]

@@UltimateKyuubiFox don't forget John Fay who wrote Day 2, 4 and Co-wrote 3 with RTD.

[@cjbrett89]

Darkest thing ever in the Doctor Who universe? This may well be the darkest thing in TELEVISION.

[@Estarfigam]

There are movies, and books, darker than "Children of Earth"?

[@RealBadGaming52]

Chris Brett the bit where they are calling the children units and offering them up is dark as fuck . Miricle Day dark as well , the bit where they burn to death while alive , it’s one of darkest things on TV , Both seasons 3 and 4 are quite deep and goes to dark places that many TV show don’t normally go , and they Sci fi is kiddie crap

[@jakewhite5767]

@@Estarfigam a lot of the Doctor Who audios go HARD, especially the older 8th Doctor stuff.

[@Estarfigam]

@@jakewhite5767 keyword "audios" Tom Baker was once bad because one of his co-stars showed off too much skin.

[@themastersmadface8241]

@@Estarfigam I've watched a lot of TV and movies. Children of Earth is definitely the darkest thing I've watched. From the initial horror of finding out the aliens want children, to the government actually figuring out ways to carry this out, Frobisher's somehow justifiable murdersuicide, "units".... So dark cause its so realistic.

[@Lahey3]

I love the moment when Gwen talks to camera and says 'sometimes Doctor must look at this planet and turn away in shame'

[@RealBadGaming52]

Lahey3 YES , I’ve been saying this for years , it’s such a great moment in it. People never bring that up , and the whole board meeting where there dehumanizing the children calling them “units” . Watch Miracle day now that’s depressing as fuck especially the episode “the category’s of life “ and the “burn wards” , season 3 and 4 are fantastical dark.

[@jadenbryant9283]

The doctor just probably didn’t know what was happening on earth

[@shauntempley9757]

@@jadenbryant9283 He did know. He came up in a conversation, because the Intelligence and Government circles world wide call him Zachary, which is his UNIT call sign. The Prime Minister actually called him off screen and got ripped to pieces in response. Because they all broke the Golden Rule: when the Doctor is not there, any one of his Companions showing up to deal with the situation speaks for him. It did not occur to them all until that moment that Jack was a Companion. They were all scared as heck when they learned that. Because they were on there own.

[@ginge641]

@@shauntempley9757 Nice fanfiction bro.

[@shauntempley9757]

@@ginge641 It was discussed in Classic Who on tv. The Companion issue was one of the conditions 3 worked with UNIT while he was marooned on Earth, after he was rendered unconscious by the enemy in the story, and a Companion knew what was going on. UNIT ignored her advice, and nearly got Earth wiped out. The only reason it did not, is because the Companion worked to bring the Doctor to health in time. The other one, is that the Brigadier gave him the callsign Zachary the very first day he started working for UNIT. As for Torchwood Children Of Earth, that was confirmed by Davies to be the reason 10 deposed Harriet Jones. He had just told off the British Prime Minister dealing with the 456 in that story on the phone. That happened in the Christmas Invasion, after he regenerated from 9.

[@ClaraFinn]

The really scary and sad thing is I can totally see Boris Johnson acting exactly like Brian Green, if this were happening in real life. Somehow, RTD managed to create an even more despicable prime minister than John Simm’s Master

[@backpackerraden6268]

In fairness, Osgood did say in "Death in Heaven" that Saxon "wasn't even the worst one[PM.]"

[@Kimbie]

I just rewatched it and in his first scene I almost said out loud "oh, a Boris Johnson-type"

[@randersona9697]

2 thoughts on this stunning series: 1) it's interesting that you say to take a breather between episodes, given how it was aired (each episode is one day, and it was aired on five consecutive days) - I remember that giving it a slightly relentless energy, and EVERYONE was talking about it for that week, much like a big news issue. Very clever use of scheduling. 2) The one thing that sticks with me, in terms of strength, real-world resonance, and the sheer ANGER it left me with, is the committee meeting where the government decide on their plan. I think it may be the strongest thing RTD ever wrote

[@borjankosarac3645]

Jack Harkness has always been willing to make the hard calls, when there’s no other option - in TW 1.05, “Small Worlds”, he gave the Fair Folk the little girl they wanted, and get off Scot free for murdering people, because he had no way to stop them. And he was hated then for his choice too, yet he still did it because the alternative was worse; only this time, he had to sacrifice someone he cared for personally to end the threat. The 456 are so effective as villains because RTD knew how far to go with learning about them so much they weren’t terrifying anymore - keeping them sufficiently alien yet also MUNDANE, a nuance rarely seen let alone executed this WELL. But of course, the truly terrifying part is seeing the most ugly part of humanity in the leadership, all the worse because it wasn’t overblown or gratuitous but hit a PERFECT level of realism; them still being truly human while doing these AWFUL things is what, more than anything else makes this chilling to watch.

[@trollloool1307]

"dont binge this" *me bingeing it before he said that*

[@calibaby6913]

I did, but I did watch it years ago maybe it would be different now. For me the bleaker it got the faster I needed to know why all this was happening.

[@SunnyShuklathedoctor]

I binged it. I will never forget it.

[@ptolyclarke1400]

I binged it and I don’t regret it. One of the best stories in the doctor who universe let alone Torchwood. It’s dark, fun, adventurous and amazing whilst shocking me at the same time. I will never forget this story

[@muhamadm23]

Just binged the entire of Torchwood in two days

[@ptolyclarke1400]

@@muhamadm23 that is some commitment.

[@Ben-vf5gk]

I have a head canon to cope with this. The Doctor found out about this after it happened and dealt with the 456. I can imagine 10 doing that.

[@ramblesrandom]

I'd love to see this in a big finish or a short or something like that

[@hiccuphufflepuff176]

Mine is that he tried to come while it was happening, but the Tardis refused to land because John Frobisher's death was a required event in time to correct the Doctor saving his ancestor in Pompeii. So all of this was a consequence of the Doctor and Donna breaking the rules, which ties in to the themes of Waters of Mars, the next DW episode to air. ...but I like the idea of 10 going after the 456 after, especially if it's personal.

[@Ben-vf5gk]

@@ramblesrandom A short trip on big finish would be great.

[@meris8486]

Didn't Jack kill the 456 at the end of this though?

[@jadominek7116]

Don't think so, he would rather give them "second chance" or similar un-doctorish shit he's known from

[@theaquinnwrites]

I think the mom sells the initial panic when she realizes what Jack is about to do, but you are right, maybe not the grief afterwards.

[@MrRjhyt]

Children of Earth, is without doubt the pinnacle of Torchwood. The underlying idea that the Doctor couldn't face that side of humanity, and Torchwood stepped in really works. The first two seasons struggle to find their voice and audience, and Miracle Day, least said the better. It didn't understand it's own 'Mature' audience, as you touch on in the close. It was simply an excuse to be more graphic, sweary. Ironically, The Sarah Jane Adventures felt more mature in the questions it posed. I still recall one about the homeless, it was bleak as anything Torchwood could manage.

[@RealBadGaming52]

Robin Hislop oh yeah that weird episode of SJA, the totem pole , it was a good episode , I also love the episode where some arcade slime all is selling kids to an alien war lord to fight in an alien war , The final episode of SJA was good too, SJA wasn’t too kiddie , especially the episode wither edge slitheen kidnap like and lock him in a room , that was creepy and unstteling

[@mlp_firewind8129]

“It could have been darker” -an absolute lunatic

[@youngbutretro4228]

by lowering the brightness

[@InaZeaAnaZazi]

@@youngbutretro4228 I was about to aks "HOW???"^^

[@youngbutretro4228]

@@InaZeaAnaZazi xD

[@damat9607]

I mean he has a point the concept of him killing his grandson should have hit a lot harder but it doesn't develop him as his grandson but more so a concept instead

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

Coulda let the 456 win

[@silverspike1]

Children of Earth imo is a stunning piece of work. To me It comes across as very much Nigel Kneale like in style and content and, well. bleakness. The whole cast act their collective hearts out, but for me Peter Capldi just steels it. That scene were he's walking slowly up the stairs with that gun behind his back? Dear god. And the government meeting where they talk about the children as 'units'. Now doesn't that ring true in how governments like to dehumanise their 'problems' and so makes It easier to be rid of them. Superb.

[@jamesmullen2231]

I love the Nigel Kneale vibe I get from this story; it's like a better version of the last Quatermass TV series.

[@leslieshafer6343]

Yes, up until the aliens actually arrive you would swear that the writers were channeling Nigel Kneale.

[@calibaby6913]

God that whole scene with Capaldi actually made me cry by the end, it is built up so well it starts out tense then the moment hits when you realize what he is going to do. Just masterful all around.

[@Coops1985]

i felt so sad when Frobisher did that. gives me chills thinking about it. and it's been years since i saw it.

[@silverspike1]

Yep, you and me both.

[@chimmychunger]

In my opinion, and i know its a controversial topic in the who fandom, children of earth is probably one of, if not the best storys in telivised Dr who history

[@lwaves]

I can go with one of the best. Not the best but certainly one of. I said elsewhere that this is the type of story I wanted when TW was announced as being darker and aimed at adults.

[@benedictjlarkin9296]

No I agree with that, RTD's Doctor Who spin offs were brilliant.

[@hasogon]

You clearly haven't watched love and monsters

[@leslieshafer6343]

As a spin off - I wouldn't have wanted this to be a regular series story.

[@TTRPGSarvis]

Torchwood was very hit or miss in general. Sometimes you got garbage, and sometimes you got art.

[@ramblesrandom]

I really wish this was the standard for what torchwood was from the beginning.

[@lwaves]

Yep. I seem to keep saying it here but this is the type of story I wanted from TW when they said it was darker and adult aimed.

[@Imabassplayer2]

Yes and no, It was at a time where RTD was running Doctor Who and Torchwood at the same time. The first series of Doctor Who and Torchwood are the same. Small budget with a big risk of fans not caring. Even more with Torchwood since it was brand new. Without the low quality shoe string budget we never would have gotten RTD's best work. RTD tweaked Doctor Who until he made his best series which was 4. Same with Torchwood finding his feet seeing what worked and then gave us his best work Children of Earth. Which should have ended Torchwood on a high. Torchwood was an adult version of Who just made the same way as Who was at the time. I think RTD did a great job considering he never had all of his time devoted to making Torchwood. Even with the series being up and down. Would have loved to see Torchwood darker. But would it have given us the quality of Children of Earth?I don't know.

[@c17sam90]

I think you had to build up to this.

[@ZakJordan98]

This is one of the finest five hours on all of Television.

[@themorganrileyshow5520]

This season was bleak, depressing, heartbreaking and I only watched it once! I refuse to rewatch it, it broke me when it first aired.

[@cjc363636]

I agree. It's one of the best TV productions I've ever seen. And I won't watch it again. Nathaniel: Very well said. I can see the discomfort on your face as you review the series. And Frobisher..... Damn. The end of that took my spirit down for a few weeks about 10 years ago.

[@BeachBlondie5263]

Me too. It’s haunted me. Even if they said It would save the world I would NEVER sacrifice my son. The series was fun up to that point. Never watched it again.

[@CLAYSROOM]

Likelihood your government has considerations like this on the table

[@namugriff]

This is the Torchwood spin off that we were promised from the start, and I regard as still the best story line in Torchwood, and even better than a lot of the later Doctor Who stories. They really need to bring Torchwood back.

[@liamheneghan4977]

I remember watching this when it first aired and it traumatised me to the extent I haven't watched it since. It takes a lot to unsettle me, but this really got to me ...

[@nathanyou1899]

Every scene between Capaldi and the 456 is so good and so tense.

[@citrinedragonfly]

Torchwood COE is probably some of, if not THE, finest productions of television drama. It is so, so compelling and brilliantly made/acted/written. The idea of one story over five parts was perfect, and I love that there are no "winners" and "losers" in this story, truly. Everyone is full of gray, everyone is morally suspect for their various ends. Frobisher's story is truly tragic. I am one of those Ianto fans (at least, I was when this aired), that was up crying for hours after watching Day 4 "live", because his death proved that Torchwood can't have things go right for long, ever. That being said, while I bought this on DVD the day it came out, I will likely never watch it again. It disturbed me on so many levels when I saw it on TV, and I don't want to put myself through that again, even though it's a brilliant piece of film. Frobisher's choice at the end chilled me to the bone. Jack's choice chilled me and made me cry, because it was so desperate, and so confusing for the boy. Gwen trying so, so hard to save the children, carrying the smallest because she could run faster, and her despair when they were caught anyway. I cannot watch all that again. Hearing your review made me remember the experience more clearly, and solidified both my opinions on the show all the more: it's the best story, and I won't watch it another time. I can and have rewatched Miracle Day, and... I won't say give it a try now, but at some future point. Maybe when US politics aren't where they are now. Bill Pullman's character in that disturbs me in a very different way to COE, and reminds me of certain people in office currently at various levels of government. Also some of the things the various governments do hit close to home in a similar way to the images of the police taking children from their families do in COE.

[@ClaraFinn]

I’m going to watch this properly when I get home from work but that intro is absolutely perfect. Capaldi is an absolutely phenomenal actor. His character is one I was convinced I was going to hate but by the end of it... wow. I just met Gareth David Lloyd at comic con too, he was so nice 😊

[@MrGreaves]

Children of Earth is the perfect Doctor Who story that would only work for adults. I’m so glad RTD made this masterpiece.

[@Haley123ful]

I loved this season of torchwood, very bleak, depressing, heartbreaking, and dark as you said. I will never get over the opener of episode 5 with a black and white recording of Gwen talking about how “The Doctor must look at this planet and turn away in shame” while the background is silent, like almost uncomfortably silent, and you see the military ripping away screaming children from their parents and home. That definitely set the tone for the episode.

[@natsmith303]

I was warned. You warned me. But no amount of warning could prepare me for the emotional experience of actually watching this story. I saw it two days ago, and I'm still struggling with it.

[@shreyasiroy3579]

I feel you.... damn... good luck... I'm not the same anymore...

[@darynvoss7883]

When you're saying that Stephen's death "doesn't work"... Damn, worked well enough on me! I was wrecked. That scene really stuck me for a long time.

[@JasonBlackYT1]

I remember the first time I rewatched the whole series of Torchwood. I deliberately put Children of Earth off for about 3 months, because I knew what was coming. I watched it when it aired. And there were times it left me shaking when the credits were rolling. To me, this is one of the finest pieces of British television ever made. Timeless, hard hitting, horrific, painful, shocking and utterly unforgettable. Peter Capaldi should have got a BAFTA for this performance, and i thought this was also the strongest John Barrowman has ever been as Captain Jack. In my opinion, Steven's death really does hit hard, and a big part of it is Jack's expression, just frozen in shock and helplessness. Thanks for reviewing this Nathaniel, I was one of the people who suggested Overdue Reviews of Torchwood on a livestream a few months ago, I for one would love to hear you tear apart the Sex Gas episode 😂😂😂

[@hmsljj]

"Children of Earth", the very best of Torchwood. "Miracle Day", the worst. By far. Production should have never left Cardiff.

[@Dave0G]

IIRC, CoE wasn't originally a Torchwood story which is why the team's contribution to the events wasn't the focus.

[@wcoleman99]

i could've done without Mekhi pfeiffer in it.

[@srasul2799]

Season 3 of Torchwood was definitely the best. Although the shortest it was easily the most gripping and disturbing pieces of television I have ever seen yet I was so captivated throughout. Everything was on point on, from the production values to the acting and even the little nitpicks I have are rendered pointless just from the unique story and fantastic story telling. Some of my favourite scenes were to do with the government and their meetings. Just the whole segment in episode 4 is so dark and disturbing and can churn anyone’s stomach. Just the thought alone the government actually could To these extreme lengths is OOH harrowing to say the least. Overall a very solid season of Torchwood that a look upon very fondly.

[@fairyelephant]

For me, the interaction between Jack and his daughter shows how little Jack cares. He is willing to sacrifice a child he doesn't know and doesn't seem to care for that much. I also think this would've hit harder had Gwen or one of the other characters did this however I think Jack would be the only one of them willing to seriously consider sacrificing one of the children that are in their lives because they actually love them. I felt that through all of Jack's time and how he will out live everyone who touches his life he has built up a feeling of detachment towards people and thought that this was a situation he could manipulate. Anyway it's hard to explain but basically I thought it showed what an asshole Jack can be.

[@joshuawright4198]

I had less of a problem with this and more when he handed over the twelve children and it's treated like he didn't care and still doesn't seem to regret it that much to me it made me dislike him slightly and also in the sixties he sacrifices children and this time to win he also sacrifices a child which seems confused

[@Galvatronover]

@@joshuawright4198 he seemed to regret it to me

[@Galvatronover]

What do you mean he cries while doing the act

[@kathyastrom1315]

When this was broadcast, .i was visiting my mother, who does not watch genre tv at all. She was doing something else and not paying attention while I watched, but she couldn’t help but hear the dialogue. What git her attention was the Prime Minister’s cabinet meeting in which they discussed selection, and one woman said something like, “Why do you think we have those standardized tests?” Mom made me rewind so she could verify she had heard something so utterly reprehensible and horrifying.

[@MyNameIsCody]

The part that broke me was when the scientist guy said that they'd need a child to use for the signal, and just that moment when Jack's daughter realised that Jack was going to use his grandson....god that moment was perfect

[@gunlovingliberal1706]

This was the mini-series where Torchwood finally fulfilled its promise of being an adult Doctor Who. Too bad Miracle Day did not have as good a premise and too much filler. Thank you for the incite about the current regime in America and the parallels to this series. I have to defend Episode 2. It shows the depth of depravity the government was willing to go to in order to eliminate the one group capable of stopping the handover to the 456. It foreshadows the coming depths the government is willing to sink to. The sacrifice either works for you or it doesn't. I have watched the series 3 times. I cry every time.

[@Manganra7]

This was the first season of Torchwood I watched, and it inspired me to watch the first two. If I had seen season 4 first, I probably would never have watched the rest. That season’s stuck with me as being the darkest.

[@oatymilkshake]

I'm not sure what world events you're referring to that you're reminded of by the scenes of the soldiers pulling away the children - but whats poignant is the fact that although its been 4 years, I instead relate these scenes to whats happening in Gaza. That kind of shows how timeless these scenes are. Unfortunately.

[@MrRjhyt]

In the UK, they made a feature/event of the broadcast. One episode a day, over the week. It was an intense experience, even as a non-parent. I also recall John Barrowman being annoyed it was only 5 episodes, rather than a full series. Being worried myself, it was the year of the David Tennant specials (Only 4 episodes!), and wondering/worrying they were shuffling it all off-stage.

[@citrinedragonfly]

I was in the UK when it aired - chaperoning a school trip, and then short holiday on my own to Cardiff - and saw Days 2-4 in Wales and England as they aired. Having to leave after Day 4, on that cliffhanger, to go back to the US was painful. We didn't get it here till 2 weeks later, so I ended up watching those three again as I wanted to watch all of them day by day in order. I am so glad that BBCAmerica didn't air commercials during it - it would have ruined the tension. I think it was worse, knowing what was coming by Day 4. But I wouldn't have traded being in the UK for the parts of it I was there for for anything.

[@outlander1998]

To me the ending really hits, the ending where Jack says goodbye to Gwen as well

[@ealadubh4800]

"WHO FROWNED ME THIS BULLET HOLE IN MY FACE"

[@EalesOnWheels]

I am suing Russell T Davies to pay for the therapy I needed after watching this. It's the most heartbreaking tragedy. What I love about RTD's work is his ability to understand how our emotions work and his exploitation of that. He's a master of emotion. One of the finest screenwriters ever.

[@thxlogofan1712]

i just thought jack was at the bar in the end of time just to have a drink 0-0

[@amelianannette972]

Children of Earth was a piece of fiction that we once thought would never come true. And our world has devolved to the point where it has.

[@Lil-Dragon]

Darkest and heartbreaking show moment. Loved the show wish it come back to TV

[@jarjared3522]

Big Finish is Torchwood's new home. RTD has gone on record saying he won't write anything in the Doctor Who universe ever again, and the tv cast provide their voice for the characters in audio form which makes Big Finish Torchwood legitimate in my opinion.

[@chrispalmer7893]

I think there was a fine balance with the grandson. He felt like an incidental character until the very end. If he’d been given a greater focus there is a risk we’d have seen the end coming. I remember it hitting like a sledgehammer on first watch in part because it was so fast that he went from throwaway to, well, thrown away. The actual solution for it not working for you would probably have been to introduce the character in the previous season, but we can forgive RTD for not thinking ahead.

[@ashdoroshenko6453]

Not had chance to watch the video. But I secretly love how dark this is, especially towards the end when gwen is saying how the doctor must look at his and be ashamed. It was a very good use of a more adult show set in the universe aimed for children. I also enjoyed the follow up made by stars

[@Nulono]

There was a follow-up?

[@ashdoroshenko6453]

@@Nulono it wasnt direct story follow up it was the series.after mainly set in america and captain jack was made mortal but everyone else was immortal but couldn't heal. Included some great american additions to the team and some great moments

[@CheeseypiPlays]

@@ashdoroshenko6453 I couldn't get through more than a few episodes of miracle day...

[@jonsnor4313]

The welsh part was good, but they decided to kill the new interesting female newcomers for the bland new dude, the torchwood team was actually good and fun. But rex, why rex. The female doctor and ester would have made good additions, but make rex immortal.

[@ashdoroshenko6453]

I'm surprised they havent done anything with rex since his Immortality reveal, or at all. Strange. Could of been interesting watching him get used to being immortal and being torchwood with jack. Or maybe crop up in a few seasons of who's time and the doctor thinks hes jack gone under some surgery or something wacky

[@GamerWho]

Torchwood was better suited to this miniseries structure than more episodic villain-of-the-week stuff.

[@alexwright4930]

They still had a Ianto memorial in Cardiff Bay a few years back I saw. God Children of Earth is dark. Saw it when it aired, but I'd forgotten how dark on my second watch. Especially how the 456 are defeated.

[@jamiestevens3074]

I’m yet to see this story, I’ve already seen some spoilers and some clips and I can already tell it’s dark as hell.

[@Comicfan49]

Jay Stevens I was so scared when I first watched this

[@jonsnor4313]

You aint seen nothing yet. But its good drama for poor jack.

[@Hussain-tv6rs]

looool i watched it a couple years back with no idea how dark it was but blimeyyyyy

[@cyberfox9713]

I watched this when I was 12 mistakes where made

[@chriscuthbertson]

I really like Torchwood in general, and love it's tongue and cheek style. Children of Earth is just an amazing piece of TV drama.

[@nathanyou1899]

"Oh yes, let's discuss the loss of millions of innocent children, and let's be civilised about it."

[@darciehorton9748]

Children of earth literally destroyed me. I couldn't even watch season 4, I just had to get away from the pain haha

[@thomasjackson1075]

You really didn't miss anything with skipping s4

[@theeorigin4651]

Peter Capaldi's best written appearance on the show

[@MovieMagic515]

Heaven Sent?

[@MichaelJW72]

A friend recommended this to me but warned me it would be a kick in the nuts. When I finished watching I sent him a text saying that it was brilliant but I never want to watch it again and included a picture of me flipping him off.

[@GusMcGuire]

I think Children of Earth was the closest we got to the Torchwood we were sold. When the show started, the first two seasons were full of contradictory stories and inconsistencies and felt very unpolished. CoE was the first one that seemed to be GOING somewhere with a purpose - rather than having a ‘monster of the week’ format. It was broadcast in the UK nightly for a week from Mon-Fri and was compulsive viewing. For me, it was the first TV show that felt like this since the miniseries V from the 1980s.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

I wish that the whole series did what season 3 and 4 did in taking a concept of what would happen to the planet if situation x happened (which is something mentioned in the Behind the Scenes videos for season 4).

[@barry1369]

I think the two best scenes are when the cement is poured into Jack’s cell and when Jack has to sacrifice his grandchild.

[@WHOCares2005]

Miracle day does not live up to children of earth at all.

[@twilliamspro]

When this first Aired It was on Daily at prime time here in The UK over the course of a week. I was studying at College and Watched as a family with my brother and Mum daily. All so deeply engrossed. Such a fond season for me because of that

[@alexwright4930]

Prime time? Was it after the 9 pm watershed? Can't remember myself though definitely watched it when it aired.

[@lizzie8561]

Soldiers taking children away from their parents. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

[@tomkenning5482]

More relevant now than ever

[@thomasjackson1075]

If you are referring to what I think you are, I want to make this point: You are disgusting. Your desperation to demonize a certain political figure in this context is utterly despicable and you should be ashamed of yourself. Do you stop for a second to think why those children are separated? It is because a lot of the time those children do not belong to those claiming to their parents, and a previous political figure, not the one you are frivolously bashing, chose to implement this to prevent sex-trafficking of minors. Do you seriously think it acceptable to be such a sycophant to a specific narrative that you will doom children to sex slavery? You worthless, snivelling rat.

[@lizzie8561]

@@thomasjackson1075 I didn't bring up a "certain political figure." I merely acknowledged that the terrible situation in T:CoE is now going on in real life, in activities that have been widely decried as cruel. I'm not OK with that. Are you?

[@tomkenning5482]

@@thomasjackson1075 You know, I always thought this channel had some very respectful commenters. Don't be the exception to that rule.

[@jackskellingtonsora]

@@thomasjackson1075 Damn. You are disgusting. This whole series, Children of Earth, is about trying to justify soldiers tearing screaming children from their parents. You are a person trying to justify soldiers tearing screaming children from their parents. This is why social commentary is lost on the people it's commentating on. Because you always refuse to acknowledge what you're doing.

[@celtic5177]

I hate how in FOTJ Chibnall seems to entirely forget about COE because you would think Jack would be pissed at the doctor for ignoring the events of COE, but noooo, time for funny awkward kissing joke instead.

[@jackaylward-williams9064]

I had the EXACT same issue with the climax. Killing off Ianto, a well established character who we’ve got to know well over the course of the last 3 seasons, is gut wrenching, but killing off Steven, a character who we didn’t even know existed until CoE who hardly gets any screen time and who we know everything about from exposition just doesn’t hit the mark.

[@ealadubh4800]

Children of Earth was RTD saying "oh FFS, give it back and let me do it PROPERLY."

[@AnotherJenn42]

I remember the build up and watching it when it aired. One of the few shows I can say was very good, but did not enjoy watching it and would never watch again. True, I was a parent at the time, but even if I hadn’t been, I think the connections I have with my nieces and nephews would have made the impact almost as strong. Watching this review, moments from the show came back to me. Right about Jack’s grandson. I struggled to remember him. But the child the 456 had with it. And that government woman who suggested they should use test scores to choose the children. The children getting on buses. The children screaming. Very well done, very disturbing.

[@aliciamiro9529]

The sympathy you feel and the delicate and compassionate way that you talk about children being ripped from their parents like that...there's so much respect and love in your voice and pain for other people and it means a lot. I'm Latino from a mixed-status family and just treating that topic with such empathy means a lot to me and it makes me want to give you a hug. You're probably my favorite person on all of youtube because I love your content anyway, but you just seem like such a compassionate person and it's amazing, I bet we would be friends in real life if we knew each other. Sending love man

[@jarjared3522]

Miracle Day tried to be darker than Children of Earth, but failed miserably.

[@SamuelMproductions]

Because its an american co-production and the american elements lets it down

[@jarjared3522]

@@SamuelMproductions Not necessarily. What dragged Mircale Day the most was the detours focusing on Oswald Danes. Even in America a school teacher turned pedophile and child murderer wouldn't get a religious following as huge as what's presented in Miracle Day.

[@ForIorn]

@@jarjared3522 Whats depressing about that is it's "wouldn't get a religious following as huge" rather than "wouldn't get a religious following at all"

[@IGSA101]

@@ForIorn Any lunatic can get a religious following, it's not special to americans, look at Shoko Asahara in japan, or Rajneesh in India. Both made cults off of basically nothing, then proceeded to do horrible things with them.

[@MichaelJohnson-kq7qg]

@@jarjared3522 slightly more than half of the American population would disagree with you.

[@ftc3000]

I wholeheartedly agree with you that this season of Torchwood actually felt mature, as opposed to the previous seasons which just felt like a collection of mediocre Doctor Who stories but without the Doctor and with more swearing and sex. This season was bleak as hell, but I feel it earns it because of how well made it is. It's just a pity that the next season, Miracle Day, squandered all that good will away as it had a brilliant premise and didn't seem to know what to do with it.

[@HereComesPopoBawa]

That's why the ex and I called it Crotchwood, because it was a horny, edgy adolescent's notion of "mature storytelling". Especially the first half of the first season, it makes quite an impression!

[@safespacebear]

That scene when Peter's character does the thing....left me speechless

[@MovieMagic515]

Very well acted.

[@simonyoung7177]

I recently rewatched the season for the third time on the boxset and I STILL get tears and heartbreak from it. Peter capaldi I thought was legendary and heroic as frobisher

[@justkerowen3191]

That was a rough go, but worth it. I totally agree CoE is truly mature material, as opposed to what usually passes for such. Maybe you could do a thinkpiece on the difference sometime. Capaldi really did do a brilliant job of bringing humanity to a character that could've gone horribly wrong in the hands of a lesser actor. I also appreciate that they didn't shy away from the idea that the government would be so willing to throw the economically disadvantaged under the bus. This ties into one of my very favourite Torchwood scenes, where PC Andy deserted his position to fight with the people because he just couldn't deal with the injustice of it all. I quite like your idea of using Clem instead of Jack's grandson as the focus, I genuinely think that could've worked.

[@billlowery3898]

Torchwood finally being everything it ever threatened to be.

[@tenacious3911]

_Children of Earth_ is the only piece of Torchwood media I genuinely like. The rest of Torchwood was just too juvenile for my taste. _Children of Earth_ is what Torchwood should have been from the start.

[@jamesbrooking1287]

i still can't believe Chris Chibnall worked on series 1 and 2 of torchwood

[@gunlovingliberal1706]

No one comes out of this series looking good. Even Jack first delivers the original children to the 456. Then he sacrifices the boy at the end for the greater good. It is no surprise that the government are a-holes, but Jack too? However, it was the best of Torchwood IMO.

[@MovieMagic515]

Jack has always been questionable. A conman turned good who likes shooting things up and is consumed in vanity. Think about it carefully.

[@KerstinMamma]

I kept telling you to watch it again and you didn't want to, you silly goose. Props to the patreon individual.

[@thatbowiefan6276]

When I first saw this episode I was a child myself. I was nine and I remember thinking while watching it "oh my god this is so realistic this is how adults really would react, some would want to have a random selection others would want to go for the mentally disabled children etc" and this just added to the fear factor. I kept putting myself into those kids shoes and wondering "what if it was me." I was so disturbed by this episode and I cried throughout most of it especially when the man killed his daughters and then himself and of course when Jack sacrificed his grandson. Six years later and I have yet to re-watch it, but I still remember most of the details from it. That just shows you how much it stuck with me. Even as a kid I was able to understand its political themes and that haunted me.

[@Neojhun]

Woh that was way too young to watch this season. I was in Uni a young adult at the time. I only watched it because I love Torchwood since the start. But I was left quite disturbed and horrified. A Masterpiece sadly even more so in 2020.

[@thatbowiefan6276]

@@Neojhun Yeah my mom was really chill about letting me watch more adult shows when I was a kid and since I loved Doctor Who so much she decided to let me watch Torchwood not realizing how dark this season was until it was too late.

[@JulianDanzerHAL9001]

Capaldi was just as great in this as he was as 12 - nice to see him in a very different character

[@johndough8699]

“Why do you want them???” “For the rush.” (Or was it for the high?) Still gives me chills.

[@HereComesPopoBawa]

IIRC It was something weird like "children chemicals feels good"

[@whereami2477]

"The hit"

[@martingoldfreed2627]

I'd say Miracle Day's on par with Children of Earth's darkness. It's also more relevant at the moment.

[@jackybluj]

Children Of Earth was the best series of Torchwood RTD wrote. It definitely showed what it was like for Jack to return from a terrible death. It turned from happiness to fear and sadness on a dime. I appreciated that. Ianto made me tear up. Stephen was terrible and shocking. But you're right. I didn't cry. We saw him very little until the end. I'm guessing RTD could have made 9 - 10 episodes of COE but didn't have the luxury of time. Too much on his plate or maybe restrictions from the BBC. I couldn't do what Jack did. I would do what Frobisher did. BANG.

[@TTRPGSarvis]

I think "Out of Time" was my absolute favorite Torchwood Episode.

[@dubbingsync]

Ah yes... one of the more emotional breaking episodes in the series. Ever since I realised what each character was going through in that episode I can’t help but cry during it.

[@RealBadGaming52]

Sarvis The Buck the episode wit the hot pilot chick from the 1950s , that’s a fantastic episode and another great episode is “Countrycide”

[@leslieshafer6343]

Definitely a very good episode.

[@leslieshafer6343]

@@RealBadGaming52 Man that was a REALLY dark episode as well.

[@MovieMagic515]

Out of Time, Adrift, Captain Jack Harkness and Children of Earth are all amazing.

[@ramcams]

even excluding ianto's death, I found that day 4 was the bleakest and hardest hitting episode. The discovery of Jack's actions in 1965, the discussion of which children should be sent away, just really hit me harder than the rest, even though the other episodes still hit very hard

[@itsonlysound]

I loved Children of Earth, but the thing you said about not needing Torchwood to be there kind of touches on my problem with it as a Torchwood series. I loved seasons 1 & 2 of Torchwood. COE wasn't Torchwood. I loved it as its own thing, but it signified the abrupt end of a show I loved. It felt like Ianto was killed off on a separate series, like Jack suffered all this trauma on a separate series. I've always felt a certain amount of disconnect for it in regards to the Torchwood universe. By the time the Miracle Day abomination arrived, it was obvious that Torchwood the series ended with season 2.

[@mike12579]

It was a fantastically dark and as you said "bleak" story. I now see the reason why they kept the Doctor and Torchwood separate with Jack acting as the only crossover. I dont even have kids, and I had to take breaks watching this. Rough might be the best word to describe this...

[@LilMissMorpho]

For me I feel the Darkest thing in Doctor Who was the episode Dark Water with the 3W Concept, I mean it later corrected itself and we got to have fun with it, but it was really dark and mature for what it was, as it tackled the unsettling concept of death itself. Then we had the whole realization by his Daughter that the Brigadier was a Cyberman and got to see her mourn for him. Couple that with the fact we meet him in the past in the future episode Twice Upon a Time and it casts an eerie shadow over the character because of the context of his ultimate fate despite years at the Doctors side in many iterations. It drove so close to the line of too dark for a kid show it was almost nightmare fuel. Especially the reveal of what 3W actually means. Children of Earth does similar in that it takes something really personal and hones in on making that genuinely horrific to unpack, that said, and I can't believe I'm saying it, but I commend them for tackling those topics because in being relevant, and personal, that's how the best episodes are made.

[@spluff5]

I think this is the best season of anything Dr Who related that has ever been made.

[@nightowl8477]

You should watch Years and Years if you haven't.

[@HereComesPopoBawa]

I downloaded it last week, and am waiting until I am a bit more emotionally stable before I try watching it. I don't know when that would be, at this stage...

[@famousnoodle1661]

I have, it is absolutely fantastic!

[@wolf1066]

Oh too bloody right! My son and I binged that before starting on our Torchwood binge-fest. Bloody awesome series.

[@tanyairwin3695]

From the vids I've watched so far, this is first time I've seen you like this.

[@Jedi_Spartan]

15:15 I feel like a reason why Day 2 has such little to do with anything could be because someone in the writer's room pointed out how dark the series was and needed some levity at some point and Davis just went over the top like he usually does (similar to the Master).

[@lloydy272]

I have not rewatched since my first watch about 9 years ago but it still haunts me as amazing TV. I should revisit it. But oh my it is a lot. My partner was really affected when Ianto died but I did not feel anything. But when Jack did what he did at the end of it, I think that I was broken and maybe never the same. It really made me question how far I would go to help others at personal cost. Here I am years later sitting in the middle of a pandemic and that has been a real life test for me and many others.

[@nathaniel2566]

Could you please do a Merlin episode by episode review ?

[@nightowl8477]

Season 4 was the best, and Season 3 was the worst.

[@tatianamelendez490]

OoooOh yes, please! I love Merlin, even if the last season broke me. God, I wish they had done the lost 6th season. 😔😔😔😔😔😔😧😧😧😧😧

[@SweenyTodd98]

I've only ever been able to watch this season once. I usually love dark stuff but this was just too dark and depressing for me.

[@marcuswalters8093]

SweenyTodd98 Same here. Once was enough!

[@linus1703]

I haven't watched it since it aired and I still think about it, that is how much of an impact it had on me. Watching it one episode each week really hit hard. For me though I liked that the grandson was not too developed, at least how I interpreted it was we were meant to go what would you do in this situation, the emphasis is on Jack making the decision to kill his own grandson. If they give the kid a personality one it means people may not like him, but also it makes us feel for the kids death rather then the decision that Jack was forced to make. The kid being blank means we can put whatever face we want on it. Also it took me a while to realise what specifically they were talking about with seeing stuff like this on the news because there sure have been a lot of times in recent years where that has happened.

[@heatherrockwell9012]

I just watched all of this, it was EXCELLENT. I agree with what you say about the deaths you cite not hitting that hard, but for me episode 5 was still hard because of Frobisher; I was crying from his meeting with the prime minister onward, and the intersplicing of it with the speech about how he was a good man made it that much harder.

[@joebees21]

That scene where they show the child who has been hooked up to the aliens and used as a drug since the 60s or whatever still haunts me. I should not have watched this as a kid.

[@jamiea9634]

I love all your videos and I almost didn't watch this one because this series hit me so hard. I bought the DVD like I had done for all the previous series and I still own it and I have never watched in again. This was so rough and Ianto's death is still in the top five hardest hitting fictional deaths. I loved Torchwood but have a hard time re-watching it and like I said have never re-watched this one, just too hard.

[@calibaby6913]

I actually binged this fast because I needed to know why I was watching so much tragedy happening, although that was years ago I do not know if I could watch it back to back now due to the things happening in the real world that we are seeing now daily. At first, I was like the aliens just want to get high?!?!? That's it? But when thinking about it my mindset changed as it does work in the story. Characters we know or just met are losing people around them and for what? Some aliens who just really need a hit? It also feels right that Governments would care more about stopping them from invading by basically being drug mules of children. It raises the question of is the fate of these kids worth these aliens not invading or should they take the risk of invasion? As this is the DW universe it's not like the Government has never dealt with these situations before. Which then makes it bleaker because both outcomes end in death. I think it could also be read as an extreme example of the risks of enablement and what it can cost everyone around a person. I agree while I was moved to a point by the grandson's death it was purely due to Barrowman's performance, it should have hit harder then it did. I mean a side character commits a murder/suicide of his family and you get tense because that moment hits when you realize what he is about to do and you just want to scream "no you don't have to do this!" and if you are me, you cry. Not because we knew his family but because the character was built up. We see him talk to his wife and he shows how much he loves his kids we see he is a good guy just doing his job. Then once the day is saved only hours after you remember this man did the only thing he thought he could and you wonder how things could have been different if he was only given more time, and this was just a side character. The death of Jacks grandson 100% should have hit us 10x harder than that. It could have been as simple as he was obsessed with space/aliens and ends up stuck with Jack or another member of the team while they are dealing with this situation or Jack decides it would be a good idea to have him around to keep an eye on the aliens via him and we get to know him while Jack and him bond. There are many ways in which they could have written him into the story for it to work but alas they didn't. Maybe it was done on purpose to show that no child was safe but if that was the case it would have been a repeat of something we already saw idk I'm rambling at this point. TLDR: I agree with you everything you said from start to finish. . ....If you did read any of that and got to the end here HI! Also, I would say Miracle Day has its moments buuuuut besides a few scenes it just felt like "ummm okay?" I rewatched it twice and I still have no idea what the deeper theme is or why certain subplots happen and most importantly I have never understood the ending like all I can remember is, to be as pg as possible, there's a fight at a cave that looks like a females lady bits.....if someone requests it for you to watch go in knowing it has its moments and sometimes uses its mature label as it does here, but it feels so disconnected from not only DW but also the first 3 seasons of Torchwood. It's also very clear it was co-produced by an American network.

[@scimitaredgebooks]

Utterly brilliant review! This is the darkest and yet the most real Torchwood, and I absolutely loved Gwen leading the kids to try to escape and the whole question/answer of where is the Doctor and WHY he does not come.

[@ramblesrandom]

Imagine children of earth with Sarah Jane in place of torchwood, I'd actually find that really interesting

[@mrcritical6751]

Sarah-Jane would’ve made it a bit more child friendly a story like this requires a darker tone

[@ramblesrandom]

But I mean keep the same tone though. I feel like it would give it some sort of irony, plus she has a son whose character is fully developed.

[@leslieshafer6343]

Sarah-Jane would never have sacrificed a child!

[@mrcritical6751]

She’d always try to find the solution that requires zero child death

[@awhryan]

Children of earth shows the best of what torchwood excels at. While doctor who showed these crazy alien worlds, and these fantastical monsters, torchwood shows the impacts of those things. The doctor races across the universe, defeating the bad guys, and hopping back into his tardis to head off to the next adventure, but what about those people he leaves behind? Instead of focusing on the alien threat, children of earth and miracle day focus on human beings and their actions. Seeing how the world falls into chaos and the stock market collapses when nobody can die, how people so easily turn on each other in life or death scenarios, how the government tries to pick the lesser of two evils by literally sending millions of children to be fed on forever by a mysterious alien race, how the entire world willingly agrees to set up concentration camps and burn thousands of living people ALIVE. That's what makes me love torchwood, possibly even more than doctor who. For a show about aliens and immortality and crazy gadgets and sex clouds, it's one of the most down to earth shows I've ever watched.

[@teresaharris-travelbybooks5564]

IMO, the most frightening scene was when Gwen and Rhys were hiding with the children. It literally feels like the end of the world. Knowing that Gwen is pregnant makes that scene even more fraught with danger and peril, and the knowledge that she contemplated an abortion because she didn't think she should bring a child into that world.