What the Flux Happened to Doctor Who Series 13?

Doctor Who Flux (aka Series 13) is not over and... frankly it was a bit of a mess. It was to me anyways. And in a way that Chibnall hasn't been up to this point. To the degree that I kind of wanted to really figure out how this ended up the way it did. And I think I may indeed have some answers.
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[@themastersmadface8241]

What really bothered me is how little Dan and Yaz cared about Jericho’s death. They spent 3 YEARS just the 3 of them, and I don’t believe either shed a tear when he dies

[@TheGerkuman]

Yaz didn't cry, but she did seem pretty depressed about it. On the other hand, both companions can be a bit mopey so I can see why people would have issues noticing XD

[@ridhokappioppio]

Funny that Time turned out to be the real life villian for Chibnall in the end.

[@clymbr]

underrated comment omggg

[@danielbible3654]

LOL

[@SmartSmears]

The sheer amount of characters in this thumbnail alone really sums up the Flux experience. And it doesn't even have everyone.

[@olliebean]

It's quite telling that the BBC's own Flux "Story Breakdown" video only mentions four characters - i.e., only four characters were central to the main storyline of the season (and even then, three would have been enough; there was no meaningful difference between Swarm and Azure).

[@zaphod2073]

But is it really such a big cast, considering that Flux was a near 6 hour drama? I honestly connected with all the characters (both villains and heroes) and I felt invested in each individual story arc. I think criticising the size of the cast doesn't address the major issue: that a large part of the DW fandom simply doesn't enjoy the current style of storytelling of the Chibnall era.

[@Smurf1223]

@@zaphod2073 aye that's related to the fact it's shit.

[@Smurf1223]

@Tom Meehan aye buncha shit ain't it

[@TheDragonHistorian]

@@zaphod2073 A lot of the characters were indeed interesting, but that makes it even worse imo because literally none of them except Jericho got a satisfying conclusion.

[@ianresc3615]

I agree that shortening the season didn't do anyone any favours, but it doesn't change one major fact. None of the characters that Chibnall introduced made any sense or did contribute anything towards solving the overall mystery. Not Dan, not Diane, not Vinder, Bel or the Baby. Not the Professor, not the Serpent and ceretainly not Swarm and Azure. Heck, even Tecteun was a complete waste. The only character that had some sort of insight or knowledge was actually Doggo, because he knew the Doctor before. I am not even going into all the other logical mistakes, because you can't explain the Flux and the questions surrounding it with Covid. Chibnall may have had a great story on his mind, but he sure as hell did not know how to deliver it. Take away the great special effects and the fast pacing, what is there left? Well? Not a lot. And none of that would have changed with more episodes, because everything or everyone has been dealt with. The Doc is off to a new adventure as if nothing happened. So, yes. I do think it that simple. Chibnall is a bad storyteller. At least when it comes to Doctor Who.

[@Kaoruishere]

I'd argue that even outside of Doctor Who Chibnall's track record isn't very good. "Torchwood" was all over the place in its first two seasons and "Broadchurch" went completely off the rails after its first season (that gets so much weaker on a rewatch). Concerning "Born and Bred" I've only ever seen the video that Stubagful made on it, but it doesn't appear as if that show was written with a gold pen either.

[@GoblinSing]

Hard to say there are even great special effects and fast pacing to 'take away'. The pacing is choppy almost the whole way through, being fast isn't really a good thing in that case. And the effects are more often than not pretty terrible... the Daleks, those blue time-swarm things, every hologram. So that doesn't really help, but taking those out of the picture anyway just to focus on what Chibnall did personally... I think it's fair to say Chibnall bad. Is it reductive? Yes, but only in the sense that saying it in two words is obviously going to simplify it. You can bet your ass 99% of people who dislike this era would have far more issues to explain in-depth if given the chance to really get into it. EDIT: Can also point to Jay Exci's 'The Fall of Doctor Who' for a good example of when someone does go far more indepth than "Chibnall bad", like, the criticism is 'that's not really an argument' and then they make the argument and immediately people are up in arms like WOAH WOAH, get this argument outta here! MEAN!

[@Coops1985]

@@Kaoruishere i've already seen someone suggest that season 1 of broadchurch was ghost written.

[@defrostedrobot77]

I'd still keep Jericho regardless of how important he was to the plot cause he was easily the best part of this whole thing.

[@ricbaines1424]

Absolutely correct, yeah. Also Kate did absolutely nothing. Arguably, Claire could've been dropped too. If Chibnall needed an extra hour to tell the full story, dropping all of these pointless characters wouldn've probably freed up an hour to fit everything in.

[@loxley75]

I really hate the direction the series has gone and that’s because what I always liked was simply, mysterious old kindly alien professor type traveling around time and space in a stolen craft stumbling into problems and solving them. These huge epic universe shattering events I’m just done with.

[@loxley75]

@Tom Meehan Ill make sure to mention it to him the next time I see him for coffee! 😀

[@scribbly2983]

That and they keep making The Doctor more and more special and it just doesn't work. Every episode just seems to resolve with "I'm the Doctor, I'm special" instead of actual cleverness or work. The Doctor just becomes a deus ex machina.

[@foodini666]

good go watch some other show.

[@alicebethell8069]

As much as I adore Dan, it would have made more sense for Claire to be introduced as the new companion and then have the mystery of the Angel being inside her built until Episode 4 when the Angel is revealed. Oh and the Williamson Tunnels concept is honestly a really cool idea, its a shame that didn't get a full episode- that way Williamson could be introduced within his own episode rather than showing up at random points during the series and maybe he could walk through to the present day and spend some point with Kate, which could have made her presence feel a bit more necessary.

[@lucypreece7581]

I agree. I love that there are so many unanswered historical mysteries and oddities out there. I love history and a love mysteries. Like so many of them I feel would be perfect for a Doctor Who episode. like the Tesla episode how nobody had any explanation for the mysterious lightning and stuff. Unanswered historical mysteries are ripe for creativity and for shows like Doctor Who to put their own spin on. To this day nobody knows why Williamson built all those tunnels so it could have been for literally anything. A mystery like that is perfect for exploration in a Doctor Who episode.

[@alicebethell8069]

@@fivish no, she's not Clara. Claire is the character in this season with the Angel hiding inside her mind

[@michaelkenner3289]

That's a really clever idea. I think maybe the professor and Claire as companions within the season then dropping hints that she's got the angel inside her. That would have made it work a lot better. Edit: I just enjoyed the professor, so it would have been fun to have him along too.

[@afteri75]

@@fivish That's Clara

[@mimnimpetite8681]

I can definitely see that working- the other thing I would have done is combine Claire and Diane's characters.

[@Sam-rx7cb]

My biggest issue with Flux overall was that I felt it had so much potential. I looked forward to each new episode, and enjoyed the first few episodes... But the ending felt so unsatisfying... Which in serialised over episodic storytelling really hurts the replayability of the show. I can watch Series 2 over and over while skipping the episodes I don't like, but with Flux being one story, a landing that doesn't work makes it difficult to rewatch episodes that just serve to build up to it, with the exception of the Sontaran one that could reasonably be watched in isolation.

[@5thar]

Agreed, its the same problem broudchurch has, the final EP of series 1 is a massive stab in the back to the audience, making the first 7 decent episodes feel pointless to rewatch. I also think you'll struggle with war of the sontariens, there's a fair bit of flux stuff wedged in and knowing that the sontariens will return a couple EPs later all makes it seem irrelevant as a standalone piece

[@LewysC]

When you say series 2 do you mean Jodie Whittaker's second series, ie: series 12 or David Tennant's first series ie: series 2?

[@5thar]

@@LewysC people generally mean series 2 when they say series 2 but I guess only the op will ever know the answer 😂😂

[@Sam-rx7cb]

@@LewysC I meant Series 2, the first David Tennant series haha. I picked it for this example because it's a series with some of my favourite and least favourite episodes in pretty equal measure.

[@slothologist4780]

@@benjamindavis4974 I'm late to the party but basically: Each episode focuses on a person which might have killed the child, but (seemingly) didn't. Right before the last episode, a few possibilities are there: Maybe there were clues, which void the alibi of one of the suspects, but hidden in other episodes? Maybe they all played a part (Murder on the orient express style)? What about David Tenants character, he seems a bit shady and mysterious? But no: The murderer, who is just a random character with barely a line at all so far -basically an extra-, just wanders into the police station and confesses. As a viewer, you never had a chance to figure it out. Not in a million years. And nothing that happened in all those episodes before matters at all or ties into any of the other episodes. You can literally watch the first ten minutes of the first episode and then the last and miss absolutely nothing of the crime or meaningful parts of its solving. If there would have been writing that's actually good, you would want to rewatch the series in it's entirety and would actually catch a lot of clues you would have missed during your first watch.

[@syntychiahintsin-tee-shaks2256]

The greatest gifts from the Flux: Professor Jericho & the Dog Man.

[@soupsoup8006]

Dont forget evil Dan

[@MrTARDIS]

Hey, just offering some additional insight into what we know about the production. So when you brought up the 8-11 episode count, we need to remember that it wasn't until the latter-part of filming the production blocks that the centenary-regeneration/special was commissioned by the BBC. Chibnall was referring to the difference between the S11 and S12 11-episode filming blocks (10 seasoned episodes and 1 special) to go now to 6-episodes for the season and two specials. So I don't think that numbered episode count (which was established before filming) is the issue. Now, we know that the two filming blocks are split by their directors. 1,2 and 4 going to Jamie Magnus Stone then 3, 5 and 6 going to Azhur Saleem. For me, the big issues and when the serialised story starts to fall apart is Episode 5 and 6 when we get UNIT, Tecteun, the Grand Serpent returning etc. We also know that the Bel/Vinder scenes in Ep 4 were doing by a 2nd UNIT team at the same time as the 2nd block (confirmed by crew on Twitter). Also, 6-episode dramas are the standard at this point at the BBC. 'Doctor Who' has actually been the very rare exception over the past few years. I'd be very surprised if the studio thought they'd be getting more than 6 episodes once they knew the episode-count would be reduced. With this in mind, I honestly think that "what happened" (and this might sound pessimistic on my part) is that Chibnall just got way too ambitious and threw way too many plot elements into the episode meaning everything gets muddled. You can see this happen throughout his run, especially Series 12 and it's not exclusive to Flux. The main thing that made Flux different as an audience was that it wasn't until the end when it started to fall apart because the story seemed to be heading to these conclusions...that then never happened. Maybe there were some production issues and some contracts and elements were put into motion really early on that they couldn't back out of and had to include (maybe they didn't want to cast Craig Parkinson and then remove his character once they realised it wasn't going to pay off, or maybe they had spent money on UNIT sets and couldn't back out). You brought up the "Taking me back to Atropos in the past" example from 'Once, Upon Time'. But this is something that's been present throughout the Chibnall era. Unless there's been an issue throughout his entire run, I think that form of exposition is standard for this team. For me, I think the "what happened" is on the creative side. Chibnall gave himself a million plates to spin and then dropped most of them by the end. It was self-defeating.

[@KingKhanAbz]

It's always good to hear your insights, Will ☺

[@roguexxrenegade]

k

[@THIZZAVELI]

lol chibs even managed to rub you the wrong way. I saw you breaking down with every episode of the chibs era. Even you can't defend this crap any longer. You were the last fan to keep hope alive and chibs broke you. Hope we can get the old mr tardis back now that RTD's back.

[@T-2856]

Personally, I think that if you cut characters who, in my opinion, add very little to the story overall like Dan, Diane, Vinder, Bel and The Grand Serpent, it really wouldn't take much effort to write them out, as well the Ravagers, who felt a bit too forced as villains, although they would likely be more difficult to remove, and focus on the Lupari, Sontarans, Weeping Angels and Division, then Flux may have worked. Instead it was overstuffed with too much time wasting on new characters who ultimately had little effect on the plot rather than trying to wrap up the story of the Timeless Child and Division, which is what I, at least, was there for and even at the end they've started setting up a new villain even though Whittaker has 3 episodes left of her whole run.

[@BRAWGWill]

Cutting characters out if changes were imposed during production isn't that simple. Contracts will have been signed, scenes filmed, etc.

[@user-il3tx7nq2k]

@@BRAWGWill Then they shouldn't have added that many characters in the first place.

[@BRAWGWill]

@@user-il3tx7nq2k Not an issue if the original duration allowed

[@somebody-xu4mz]

@@BRAWGWill yeah and I really enjoy bel and vinder's screen presence. To be honest except for joseph williamson and the little kid from the angel episode I felt all the characters compelling. I get that the plot is a mess, but I can forgive that

[@danielyavin7498]

Honestly, one of the things that disappointed me most, was the utter lack of attempt to build up the relationships of the TARDIS crew. After the years of shoddy character building, especially concerning Yaz and Ryan, I really hoped this season would be kind of a refocusing of character given Yaz was the only remaining companion left. I was pleasantly surprised before with Clara, who was a mystery box and not a character in season 7 and grew a personality after a reshuffling of the cast. But nope, I don't know if it was the Covid restrictions or just bad writing, probably both, but we got minimal character development on Yaz's part. Most importantly, they brought in a new companion without giving his relationship with the Doctor... Anything? The actors seem like they're having a blast together, but there's absolutely nothing in the text to characterize Dan and the Doctor's relationship. The TARDIS crew spend more than half the series apart, often separated completely by narrative shortcuts. Beyond Covid restrictions, which were known to some degree during the writing, not developing Yaz's character and bringing in a new companion who seemingly has somewhat of a character outline but refusing to connect him emotionally to the doctor is disappointing.

[@foodini666]

when have they ever character built the companions, this has to be the stupidest comment i have ever seen.

[@ianbuckley2347]

I'm pretty sure the 8 episodes Chibnall was talking about was for the six episodes of season 13 and the two specials that had been greenlit. The centenary special was added at a later date. When all is said and done though the production team have to live and die by what is on screen and Doctor Who Flux is a complete mess. Even if some of the fanbase are willing to overlook its shortcomings the general public must have watched it and had all their worst fears about the poor state of Doctor Who confirmed.

[@Elwaves2925]

Yes, that is it - 6 episode season with two specials, then the centenary episode added later. Originally it was going to be 11 episodes total - 8 for the season and 3 specials, with no mention of a centenary special at that time. Losing two episodes is a big loss but filming was still underway so things can be rewritten to work. The first two specials wouldn't have been shot yet (not while the main series was filming), so they could have taken one special and added it to the main season. That could have helped a lot and given the plot (what little there was) more time. Excising a lot of the pointless stuff would have helped too, but then Chibnall does love to pointlessly draw things out.

[@kosh9639]

Not sure he could do it-- in 8 episodes...

[@jonunya1163]

Susan told her teachers that space and time are separate, and she couldn't solve a school assigned problem because they weren't included

[@robo3007]

This series has done nothing but confirm that Chibnall is an incredibly stubborn person. 1. He refused to become showrunner unless the doctor was made a woman. 2. He refused to drop Yaz from the cast despite the vast majority of fans disliking her character or finding her boring. 3. When he was told he had to cut back to a 3 year plan instead of a 5 year one, he refused to cut any of his ideas and made a series with three separate story arcs and series villains (four if you count the Sontarans!) 4. When he had to cut the episode count, instead of leaving dangling plot threads that would have hopefully been resolved in the missing episode he kept all the superfluous stuff in there, leading to an incredibly bloated and confusing story.

[@zaphod2073]

Chris Chibnall took on the position as showrunner - as such it's his vision of a show that gets implemented. That's the way things are run in TV production, him being the creative head doesn't make him anymore stubborn than any former DW showrunner. 1. It's the showrunner's prerogative to select the actors for characters they create. Surely the producers will also have some influence / some veto power as well but I assume Chris Chibnall will have presented his vision / main storyline before having been hired as the executive producer / showrunner. There's nothing wrong about his vision of a female Doctor. 2. Since when does a showrunner have to listen to the fandom? He was hired to implement his artistic vision. That included in his case going back to the original 3 person companion formula. Was that a good decision? That's debatable, I agree with your criticism insofar that Yaz was underused in series 11/12. But that changed completely in series 13. The portrayal of Yaz got a lot of praise this season. 3. I don't know where you got that idea from. Probably from the fact that the BBC told media back in 2017 that DW would be financed for at least another five series. However there is no indication - and it's also highly unlikely - that Chris Chibnall had a five year contract. That would have been a first for the whole history of the show. Chibnall himself has confirmed in several interviews that he had a 3 year story which was supposed to have the Timeless Child reveal at the end of season 12 and the pre-Hartnell Doctor reveal in the middle of the three series run. What we see now with Flux is a condensed version of his plan for series 13. The story arc is likely to be extended / concluded in the pen-/ultimate specials. There is nothing that contradicts his claim of having a "3 seasons and out"-plan with Jody Whitaker. 4. I personally found series 13 neither confusing nor bloated. I enjoyed the parallel story telling very much, but I can understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Especially those fans, that had a huge dislike for the Timeless Child reveal from series 12 are likely to be very disappointed.

[@mrdr0161]

1. So what? He wants a female doctor, big deal. 2. He's the writer, not the fans 3. No evidence to suggest this "5 year plan" ever existed because Chibnall or anyone else who works with him on doctor who has ever said anything like that

[@zaphod2073]

@@fivish Average time spent watching broadcast TV has taken a huge drop for years. In the last decade alone the number of minutes in the UK has been halved in the age group 4-45. I myself am nearing age 50 rapidly and I haven't turned on the telly for the last decade. I, like many others, watch Doctor Who on some kind of streaming service. Doctor Who is an international hit, much more so than in the classic era. The budget for each season has been increasing due to the fact that the franchise rakes in tons of money. You may not like the current incarnation, which is fair enough, but Doctor Who is far from dying.

[@newman476]

@@zaphod2073 It *was* an international sensation. As an American fan I can say that, at least in the states, Doctor Who’s media presence has evaporated off of much of the popular and even pop culture spaces. This has been happening since Capaldi, and the quality of the show isn’t necessarily a foolproof deterrent. A show can die in two ways: From the outside and from within. The show already died from within in the 80s, when the BBC pulled the plug even though public support was still relatively high. Right now, or at least before Series 12, the BBC seems to be very supportive of the show, but the audience is less so. Big budgets can only get you so far when, and I’m speaking hyperbolically, nobody watches it. If you have any doubts about the state of the show, the BBC just surrendered total creative control to Bad Wolf for the foreseeable future. That doesn’t appear to be the decision of an organization with total confidence in their property.

[@viper2165]

@@mrdr0161 except this doctor sucked

[@TheConfessionDial]

It’s interesting hearing your point about whether the episode count was cut down. I assumed the 8 episodes was just the 6-episode series and 2 specials (new year and Easter). It was announced months later, that they’d been asked to do another special on top of that (the centenary). So a 6 episode series and 3 specials. From that perspective, I’m not sure that necessarily suggests the episode count was cut down. But it is interesting that Chris said that they MAY end up with 8, rather than the usual 11. That suggests he wasn’t completely sure how many episodes they would get in the end. We may never really know what actually happened behind the scenes.

[@TheConfessionDial]

@@ZDProds-c8pNot exactly. When it was 10-episodes, it wasn’t going to be Flux, or at least, it wasn’t going to be one long story. The whole ‘one-story’ idea only happened when COVID forced them to change their plans, according to Chris Chibnall. So it was cut down, but the specific story we were given wasn’t the original plan. My question is more about how long Flux was supposed to be after they’d decided to do it as one story.

[@LaurenceGill2000]

@@ZDProds-c8p Very early in the production process

[@RiffRift]

@@LaurenceGill2000 so they should have had time to fix it then right?

[@jackjordan5833]

The fact that some fans think this is good Doctor Who is a testament to how far the quality of DW has fallen. I’m not trying to be a hater and I like some contributions if the Chibnall era. But can you really say to yourself that anything comes close in quality compared to Empty Child, Satan Pit, Family of blood, Blink, silence in the library, Amy’s choice, god complex, orient express, heaven sent?? Don’t kid yourself. This is not good Dr Who. Sorry to be negative. I hope the specials give Jodie some good material to work with. Roll on the 60th.

[@mrdr0161]

Youre basically insulting people for liking it

[@jackjordan5833]

@@mrdr0161 That's not my intention, but I think some people are so desperate for quality DW they've been bending over backwards to say The Flux is good with wild head canons to gloss over gaping plot holes and inconsistencies. I was just saying in my opinion, despite liking some Chibnall stuff, we should remember what good DW actually looks like and it certainly isn't a series where half the cast is redundant to the plot.

[@jackjordan5833]

@Tom Meehan Obviously art is subjective, if some people genuinely enjoy this era I don’t think they’re dumb because they don’t have the same opinion as me. I’m actually jealous of those people. I wish I could enjoy it too. I was just saying to those who bend over backwards to rationalise that The Flux is good should keep in mind the widely accepted quality of incumbent eras.

[@adamfreddo5703]

As someone brought up in a review I've seen (can't remember which), great set up would have been seeing the work of the Division throughout series 11 or 12. Maybe the villian of the Rosa episode was a member of the Division, etc. Etc. Have instances where it's ominously creepy how efficient they are in completely upheaving whole societies and historical events.

[@Leo-im6vv]

I agree, just like with the silence and the crack in the universe.

[@AlexJones-ue1ll]

While it is fair, to point out production issues, it is no excuse for bad execution. For a counter example consider Babylon 5 season 4: During the season JMS (the showrunner) was told mid production there would not be a 5th season. So he had to cut the remaining schedule planned by 4 episodes, to move in 3 episodes from the planned 5th season to finish up one major story arc. Originially S4E18 "Intersections in Real Time" would have been the season finale. He had to jugle pushing that one ahead without making everything seem rushed; produce a new series finale (which would have aired as the final episode) _and_ when all of a sudden the 5th season was greenlit by another network _produce_ a new S4 finale and keep the originally shot finale on the shelf for the true show finale at the end of season 5 (which is the reason on actress is in the show finale, beside leaving the show in Season 5) Thats what a _competent_ showrunner is able to do. Oh and btw, JMS has written like 90 out of the 110 episodes, something unmatched until today.

[@kylejones8289]

And the season 4 finale that we got, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars," is my personal favorite episode of the entire show. Sometimes the best television is made under extreme circumstances. The Doctor Who episode "Midnight" was also created very quickly after a previously planned script fell apart, and that's one of the best episodes RTD wrote.

[@audleyshaypurdyce]

The shortening of the schedule is a fair point. *But the bad planning is just another consequence of the showrunner doing a poor job* (which is _not_ the same as being as being a poor showrunner). You have been ( *overly* ) generous since the beginning of this showrunner/actor combo. *Agendas?* Go ahead. But at least let us see it sold well. This is just bad, even if we would like to explain it. Griffith and Riefenstahl works and agendas *_turn our stomachs_* , but they were great artists. This is just tomorrows recycling.

[@nickbrough8335]

Chibnall is both a show runner who did a poor job and a poor showrunner though.

[@567secret]

Is nobody else frustrated by the ep 1 - ep 2 jump where they were basically just like "they magically survived" with a very unsatisfactory explanation?

[@EvelynMadisonFaust]

the "8 episode" quote was including the Easter special... Jodie's final special had not been announced yet but the second special had. So 6 episodes for the main season and 2 for the specials... that's how he got 8 out of that...

[@jvblhc]

In the end, for me the six-parter felt like an old game my friends and I used play when we were bored. Somebody would start writing a story but could only do one line. Then he would hand it off to the next person, who would either pick up on the first story or go in some completely different direction, but only using one line. Then it would go to the next person... and so on and so on so that at the end, the finished story would be one giant jumble of confusion that barely made sense. Except that in this case, it is Chibnall himself who is doing all the writing. He writes one scene and then a completely different scene, then writes in a character who has nothing to do the previous two scenes, then goes in a different direction again, then add two more characters, then brings in a villian... and so on and so on until at the end of the story, it is one giant jumble of confusion.

[@HandofOmega]

The reason I think The Timeless Child MUST be actively retconned, is mainly that it takes away too much without adding in anything of benefit, but also the more meta reason that it impacts OUR story of the Doctor. Think about it, even if its never refed again in the show, any and every attempt to explain the Doctor, official and unofficial, including fan wikis, *must* devote space to detailing it in order to be complete! This is far more disruptive than the 'half human" line its often compared to (besides, there was an almost decade long break for that to be forgotten, no such break in production here). And if its never brought up again, then whats the point? Also, on a more subjective note, the notion that there are literally thousands of unknown Doctors wandering through space and time (mostly on Division missions, I guess, but not all), *in the same TARDIS no less*...just really bugs me. I hate, hate, HAAATE that idea, and I'm honestly not sure I can really articulate why, it just really rubs me the wrong way. Even if TC is mentioned, I know we'll never see any of them, unless a future showrunner uses it to just Stunt Cast Famous Actor for a couple of eps...Ugh, I just really personally detest that happening, even if it's an actor I like! So, those are my rational AND irrational reasons for wanting TTC actively retconned! Agree or disagree?

[@geraldvance7925]

The only reason for the timeless child is because they thought Doctor Who was too white and a classic series had too many males. How do we fix this problematic show? Erase the first doctor's past and replace him with a woman of color. The timeless child was just so Doctor Who could break the glass ceiling and stick it to male fans. At the same time hit two diversity checkboxes to get PC points on Twitter. At this point even a redcon is not going to get most of the Doctor Who fans back. They tried to replace the old fans with new ones and I don't think it's working.

[@thevacuumofcomments2946]

Strongly disagree because the show then becomes a dog chasing it's tail and that is what kills franchises (Moffat came up with the best possible solution with Hell Bent and even that has its problems). I'll grant you it's not the same thing as the TV movie cause of the gap but look at the Master post Missy, that was a season ago and most of is thought cause it was a different showrunner it doesn't matter. How do we explain the Dr unofficialy and officially? It CAN literally be as simple as the next Dr just declaring they're a Timelord from Gallifrey and leave it at that (she technically still is if you infer it as she's the first Timelord and was raised on Gallifrey). I don't care what's written on the wiki, you know what else is written there? Jar Jar is canon. Nothing on a wiki matters. The Doctors running around... It doesn't matter. Sorry but Dr Who as a coherent whole universe doesn't work. Treating as such just leaves headaches.

[@thevacuumofcomments2946]

@@geraldvance7925 How do you KNOW that's why they did this? Would it honestly have improved things if the pre-hartnell doctors had all been white and male?

[@geraldvance7925]

@@thevacuumofcomments2946 William Hartnell has been the first doctor for the last 50 years.. ever since 2016 a lot of franchises got on this whole diversity inclusion bandwagon and they started to deconstruct characters and franchises. Doctor Who was one of those franchises. I know this is the truth because I was told by younger new Doctor Who fans that Doctor Who was too white. The BBC has had an issue with straight white males for the last 4 years. People have been very vocal about that and you see it in the material they produce. The timeless child was a tool to make Doctor Who no longer a white male and bake him a black female. The timeless child also ruins the timelords gallifrey and the doctor's origin story. As far as I'm concerned William Hartnell is the first doctor. No BBC feminist committee or a millennial SJW on Twitter is going to tell me otherwise. I've been watching Doctor Who since 1975. I could tell the changes that were made lately were not made to benefit Doctor Who they're in made as a social political statement at the expense of the franchise. Star Wars and Star Trek went down the same road and are suffering the same fate. People from the BBC called me a misogynist or a Nazi because I thought the doctors character should be left alone and they should have a spin-off story bringing back Ramana or the Rani which would have made more sense and would have made more fans happy. Instead they wanted to stick it to male fans... Doctor Who lost a large chunk of its fan base and they're not coming back. I hope the ginger swapping and the virtue signaling was worth it.

[@geraldvance7925]

@Tom Meehan news flash! Doctor Who had diversity way before 2016. Doctor Who had female timelords back in the '80s. They had black people in Doctor Who back in the 1960s. But if you talk to a lot of SJW millennials they will tell you that Doctor Who was only for straight white males and it's problematic. Taking the doctor who is a male character and switching genders because of 'diversity'did not work. It was all a big virtue signal and everyone saw through it. In my opinion all of you guys who are screaming that there's not enough diversity everywhere are just a bunch of people who are racist against white males or straight people. I don't have a problem with diversity. I have a problem with people taking male characters and make them female just to deconstruct men. Same thing with race swapping. It's lazy and it's pandering and most people don't want to shoehorned in their escapeism. What are you talking about on my profile? I don't know what you're talking about. Who is this POS you were talking about that's on my profile? Are you talking about me? That's my point you virtue signaling SJWs are a bunch of hypocrites. You don't even know me and you see my face and you calling me a POS... No my friend you're the POS. People like you killed Doctor Who with your virtue signaling and your pandering to 5% of the audience.. fake SJWs like yourself killed Doctor Who and drove away the fan base. I hope that puts a smile on your face.

[@antney7745]

In the first episode when Azure was still in her Human form, what was that alarm beacon thingy that they destroyed all about? Why did they pretend to ignore it?

[@antney7745]

Oops, I meant "pretend to not hear it" because they DID ignore it.

[@somebody-xu4mz]

Yeah it's just completely forgotten about. I was enjoying her as a human and her dynamic with the man but it seems she was literally just introduced that way for shock value

[@onewingednerd]

The series gave us way too many plot lines and characters but not enough time to explain them and to tie them up. One episode wouldn't even help that. It feels like they had to pivot the story slightly due to how the Timeless Children twist went over and thus we get a story about the Doctor having a single-minded focus on her memories and The Division while we get plot characters and a universe altering event that the Doctor doesn't really care about too much as she's focused on her memories more.

[@dazerla]

I enjoyed individual beats in each episode but over all it didn't work. My feeling with Diane is Dan was supposed to play a bigger part and it would have been clear she was a hostage to effect him. But as it is it makes no sense.

[@christianwise637]

That's exactly how I felt about Flux too. I could definitely enjoy it on a moment-to-moment basis, and I can't act like I didn't enjoy watching it, but the whole structure of the thing falls apart the second you start thinking hard about it

[@billydeeuk]

Sapphire and Steel already did the “Time and Space as two conflicting forces” very well. It felt like Chibnall was trying to replicate some of their plot points into Doctor Who without trying to fit it in with the rules of the universe that Doctor Who operates in

[@EmeralBookwise]

Huh... I'd never heard of that series. I might have to see if I can check that out to see how it handles things, because time vs space as opposing forces is just such a weird concept.

[@ftumschk]

@@EmeralBookwise Agreed, especially as there's a strong case to be made that Time is an emergent property related to the entropy (decay) of matter, not an independent entity. If there are no material things (particles, planets, people) that can experience Time, or no spatial events that time can be measured against, Time may as well not exist... and probably doesn't.

[@EmeralBookwise]

@@ftumschk: indeed.... although I sorta feel like maybe that's the point being driven at. Time in this story is being presented as a destructive force, which sort of fits the entropy definition. Where it seems to fall apart, however, is in "space" supposedly being the opposing forces. Everything we actually see them doing seems to not be about destroying space itself, but rather the matter occupying it. Whatever you want to call that which opposes time, I feel like maybe the root conflict is something more relatable being dressed up in pseudo science . It's order/chaos, creation/destruction, stagnation/change. "Time" is said to be caged by "space", it is imposed upon, forced to confirm, but it still wears away at its oppressor thus creating entropy... or at least that's the best I can try to make sense of any of it.

[@natbarmore]

@@EmeralBookwise warning: Sapphire & Steel makes the pacing of Hartnell-era Doctor Who look like the final episode of The Flux by comparison, and it's trying to do heady Big Idea™ Jorge Luis Borges-style scifi with a '70s BBC budget and special effects. It can be a very thought-provoking watch-but it can also be a very boring watch; it's highly dependent on what the viewer brings to it, IMHO.

[@EmeralBookwise]

@@natbarmore: well, I can at least say that budget alone won't scare me off. I'm an old school sci-fi fan that grew up on stuff like classic Doctor Who and Blake's Seven.

[@mervee3673]

Honestly, I think even if the we had more episodes it wouldn’t have made such a difference. I doubt we would get a proper answer for anything that happened this season. I’m just really upset about the fact that timeless child story did happen and i am curious how RTD is going to play with that story-if he will.

[@maurinet2291]

I wondered that too. And if the new Doctor (possibly Jo) wakes up and it turns out the whole Timeless Child detour has been a regeneration hallucination, will the fans mind too much?

[@ClaraFinn]

Episode 1-4 = great, including Chibnall’s best who work Episode 5-6 - everything falls apart but at least it’s not boring. Thumbnail tells you the main problem. It’s the opposite of too many cooks. Too many ingredients with only one chef and he isn’t exactly Gordon Ramsay

[@ianresc3615]

I think you hit the nail there. Chibnall tried to hard to be Moffat with all the twists and angles, but wasn't able to pull it off. And it is somewhat obvious that there was nobody to point out the flaws with this entire sereies, because there are so many of them. Yes, it was entertaining and it was his best work on Dr. Who, but that tells you a lot about his previous work, does it not?

[@inionanbas615]

I just think Chibnall is just incapable of crafting a plot in his current state, to the extent I can't fully believe he's the same person that wrote Broadchurch or his past episodes of Who. Were there ghost writers translating his ideas? Were the producers and previous showrunners having to hold his hand until he constructed something coherent? How could someone be competent enough to be able to create those plots, but then be so utterly incapable of even the basics of storytelling in this current situation? There must be some kind of explanation right? An external factor helping him in the past that isn't there now? Or something new that's hindering his ability to write? I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but am I the only one having a really hard time wrapping my head around this massive change in the quality of his output? Can someone smarter than me compare the before and after and figure out what the hell happened?

[@c17sam90]

I can fully believe he’s the same man who wrote Broadchurch because that still has series 2 and 3.

[@inionanbas615]

@@c17sam90 Say what you will about Broadchurch's quality, but it was at the very least competent.

[@c17sam90]

@@inionanbas615 I don’t know about those last 2 series. When you had teens distributing pornography from usb sticks not using the internet and the incredibly contrived story with the judge like having fainting fits in the court it becomes camp and funny very very fast

[@Here_is_Waldo]

I'd say Chibnall might be a bit like George Lucas. He has some good ideas and can do a decent draft script, but needs someone more talented to go over it and actually make it all work.

[@c17sam90]

@@Here_is_Waldo the thing is with Lucas is there is logic even in his worst scripts because as a director he tells the story visually and gets very involved in the editing

[@godfreyozzy7128]

Chibnall had years to work on season 1 of Broadchurch, and even then it wasn't that great. The acting was fantastic but the actual storyline was mediocre at best. The further diminished writing quality of seasons 2 & 3 showed conclusively that Chibnall is completely incapable of working to a deadline. That's why he includes a deadline/countdown (or Time itself, in the case of Flux) in so much of his work, because it is his own personal greatest adversary.

[@mindwipe8788]

Best accidental companion for series 13 is Prof. Jericho, I was sad when he couldn’t escape the Sontaran ship.

[@Kaoruishere]

You raise a good point there with the shooting schedule possibly having ripped into this, however I think that this is an excuse that can only go so far. If it had created, say, 6 or 7 holes in the story, then it could have been somewhat understandable. However, we're dealing with something like 2892 holes, and they all can't be down to scenes that had to be scrapped or an actor not being available for a shooting day. Besides, assuming that they really didn't learn of the episode cut until after the first production block, it didn't stop Chibnall to keep introducing *even more* tangents in those final two episodes. Why cling to subplots like UNIT and the Grand Serpent instead of just focusing on what you already have, especially when said elements don't amount to much in the first place? Anyway, considering how even "The Halloween Apocalypse" struggled to be coherent (or other Chibnall work outside Doctor Who for that matter), I doubt that 2 or more episodes would have changed much. The pacing would have been more balanced and the editing would have been better, but I'm afraid those two areas would have been the only ones to show improvement. The story itself was ill-conceived and no longer shooting schedule in the world would have made it more coherent or any less baffling. That the ending scene of "Flux" retreads a point that was already explored and dealt with in the previous series finale only confirms how little thought went into the writing. Ah well, tl;dr version of my rambling comment: The assumed tightened shoot didn't truly create problems in the story, it only magnified the ones that were already there.

[@angusmaxim3450]

I think the series itself was always 6 episodes. The 8 episodes was referring to the special too, but remember this production still did 8 episodes, as they filmed 2 specials, the new years one and the spring one.

[@josephbrook9598]

Also have to remember John bishop tested positive for COVID in the first weeks and production was stopped for two weeks

[@Elwaves2925]

Some great questions that I've had myself and it's nice to hear them aired. I did enjoy Flux more than Chibnall's earlier series (which isn't saying much) but that was because of individual pieces - the whole was a mess. I feel sorry for the writers who came up with some solid/great ideas, only for Chibnall to bastardise them into this 'single story' that isn't really a single story. Then Chibnall chucks all those fan favourites into the mix, to distract and cover up the lack of a cohesive plot. The pandemic and episode cutdown certainly played it's part, however that isn't a valid excuse IMO. There was plenty of stuff that could have been excised as they played no significant part. As you say, filming hadn't finished which means things can be rewritten. Even with less episodes, he still chose to keep two specials tied in to filming with the six episodes (not counting the centenary special), instead of cutting one special and putting out more series episodes. That was 100% his choice from what I've read. Hey, at least we didn't get a season finale containing half an hour of pure exposition explaining the main thread of the series. That's something. :-)

[@bahadirozer]

yea but we had fundamental filmmaking blunders even before this season (writing mostly). the missing episode only contributed to the regression that was already happening.

[@adammyers7383]

This was a really great video that injects some much-needed nuance into the conversation. Also, it shows a lot of maturity that a lot of people in the fan base lack. Thank you.

[@ConnorKent428]

A nuanced take on the Chibnall era? Say it ain't so.

[@travelswithmybelly]

It sounds like you're making excuses for him. Covid problem to blame? Funny how many other shows and movies have turned out amazing. Why didn't he manage? Shortened season? Again it's not that this hasn't happened before. Straczynsk still managed to put out a masterpiece after having an entire season cut! Everything can be adequately answered with the same answer,: Chibnil can't write for shit. Why is the editing chopped and quick? Because he thinks it makes things exciting. Because he is a hack. Why do plotlines go nowhere? Because he is a talentless hack. Why so things not make sense? Because he's a talentless hack. Blame deadlines or covid but Iif that was true it would only affect this season. The other seasons are crap.ans suffer from all the exact same problems. And if we are to believe these reasons then why are the other seasons just as bad? They are bad for the same reasons: terrible writing, awful direction, poor acting, bad pacing, dull stories that are often nonsensical. The guy is a hack. Let's face it. I keep hearing Broad Church is amazing. Is it though? It's certainly popular but one can take a look at what's popular in any realm, movies, art, music, TV and what's popular is rarely the same as what good. Popular doesn't equal quality. Not that it can't but that it's not automatically so and rarely is the case. The fans have left in droves. The show is by all measures at rock bottom. The merch isn't selling, the shows been dropped from conventions, the fans are gone, the ratings are rock bottom. Nobody cares about this show any more. The buck stops with the creative behind the show. There's nowhere to hide. There is one reason alone for the failure of Dr Who and it's Chibnil.

[@ftumschk]

"Many other shows" aren't as challenging to make as Doctor Who.

[@travelswithmybelly]

@@ftumschk Some aren't but just as many are. Are you saying shows like The Witcher, Squid Game, The Marvel shows, Arcane, and more are not as complex or demanding to make? Come on. Many shows and movies are dealing with even more that Dr.Who and still turned out just fine and critically acclaimed. EVERYBODY is dealing with the pandemic.

[@travelswithmybelly]

@Tom Meehan you're notice I listed a South Korea ln show. Why should anywhere else be different. Anyway, ok. I'll play your game. The Irregulars, The Crown, Intergalactic, Bridgerton and more are all as demanding if not more in scope and ambition and they are all fine. Blaming the he pandemic is nonsense. Other creatives managed just fine ( here and abroad ) and rewarded with high audience figures and glowing reviews.

[@ftumschk]

@@travelswithmybelly Covid restrictions in Cardiff, and Wales in general, were very strict at the time - and, besides, Doctor Who has a very small budget in comparison with most, if not all, the other shows you mention.

[@007robotchicken]

I'm very conflicted about Flux. I genuinely had fun watching it, and there were lots of things I liked. But I was so confused the entire time I watched it. This is kind of like if The Wedding of River Song was stretched into 6 episodes, in terms of how incoherent it was. It felt like there were 10-12 episodes worth of ideas that were crammed into just 6 episodes. Very strange.

[@mhollis1989]

Question: regardless of how we feel about the story lines chosen, they were still chosen. So how many extra episodes (pre special) would you have given them to give these plots the appropriate room to breathe?

[@gunlovingliberal1706]

When I used to work in the corporate world we had a saying, "set your expectations low and you will rarely be disappointed." Unfortunately, based on Broadchurch my expectations were high for the Chibnall era. When Flux was announced I thought this was going to work because it was a single story like Broadchurch. Instead we got what the Flux. I hope the production pressures do not indicate that the BBC is trying to kill Doctor Who again. They did just that during the JNT era in order to cancel the show in 1989.

[@ospero7681]

10:05 "Why did it wipe out Azure and Swarm?" Honestly, by this point, I was happy for any deus ex machina to come in and do exactly that, because the way those two were set up, there was no way we were getting rid of them without one of those. I have many of the same questions about this entire series, but the one thing that really stands out above all else is that I found Swarm and Azure to be two of the least compelling villains the show has ever produced. They're depicted as basically omnipotent except when the plot hands them the Idiot Ball, and omnipotent direct antagonists are just not interesting. This descended into "only the writers can save them now" really quickly and really predictably. I wanted those two gone from the second I first saw them. Not in a "love to hate this smug villain" way (that was maybe the one thing that actually worked about the Grand Serpent - that's how you portray a character I want to see get what's coming to them), but in a "if I never see you again, it will be too soon" kind of way. "Get out of this story" is not a sentiment I should have towards the main villain at the start of episode 1 of 6.

[@TheBermudaMan]

I realized Chris Chibnall was a lost cause the moment he followed one of DW's best cliffhangers in years (i.e. the Doctor's transformation into a Weeping Angel) with the visual equivalent of a deflating balloon. The Doctor puts her hands down. SHE JUST PUTS HER HANDS DOWN. YOU FUCKING FAIL, CHIBNALL.

[@renecomedy]

So far the best review I've heard of why flux didn't work. It was methodical, and took things into consideration I hadn't thought about. Heard too many jerks saying "cause chibnal sucks!", or "cause diversity doesn't work!". This review actually puts some brains behind it. I'm so subscribing to your channel!

[@TheConfessionDial]

I enjoyed this series, but I had quite a few problems (especially by the end) that I don’t think were tied up and resolved very well. So I agree with a lot of your points here. I will defend one point you made though. The Rogue Angel describes Claire as her ‘sanctuary’. It’s only there because the other Angels are hunting it. When they change their plan to take the Doctor instead, there’s no reason to live in Claire’s mind anymore, because it’s no longer being pursued. I don’t think that’s a question that needs answering because it’s very self-explanatory based on the established concept.

[@ThanhTriet600]

I think the thing with the watch was that there wasn't enough time left in the episode to go through its contents. While it was dumb how there was no payoff in the moment, it's not like she destroyed the thing and undid the whole journey. She's just putting it aside for a while to pick up later, because we know the Tardis will just give it back when she asks for it.

[@BulbasaurRepresent]

11 months late, but I think the 8 episode count given might refer to the 6 episodes of Flux we got + Eve of the Daleks + Power of the Doctor I don't remember where I saw it but I heard at one point that Legend of the Sea Devils wasn't originally planned to happen. Take that with a pinch of salt though since I'm only vaguely remembering

[@charliewarner787]

Idk, I feel like if he was allowed a seventh slot, he would have made even more mysteries and characters

[@djcomicc]

I really enjoyed Flux. Don't get me wrong its a huge mess, and the UNIT stuff felt especially weird and forced in to me (probably due to that possible final episode), but at the end of the day its Doctor Who. It's my comfort show and they would have to mess up especially bad for me to not like an episode. (looking at you idiot's lantern). I think you mentioned in a previous video that a lot of these had potential to be standalone episodes, and I do think at the end of the day I would've preferred that.

[@clymbr]

it's my comfort show too! ❤

[@TheGerkuman]

If you had to get rid of sontarans or angels, then it would have to be the angels, simply because it wouldn't be too hard to get The Doctor where she needed to be, whereas if you get rid of Sontarans you also then have to get rid of the UNIT and Grand Serpent stuff, and that would necessitate a pretty MASSIVE re-write of the last two episodes (and you'd have a headache explaining why the sontarans came out of nowhere). And that extra space could be used to making it clear WHY Grand Serpent was there, and also give more space to the gallivanting of the Professor, Dan and Yaz in the 1900's and Doctor and Tecteun outside of space and time. (though you'd have to have the professor as someone from 1900's, or also write him out, so it's still a bit messy)

[@TheAlyconaria]

It was a fail. Chibs can't write a good scifi 3rd third act to save his life. Similar thing with The Timeless Children - great 1st act opener, middling second act, then no 3rd act character or plot payoff to justify any of it. In screenwriting, everything in a script must serve the purpose of driving the characters or plot. Flux didn't develop its characters and the plot amounted to nothing.

[@catfancier270]

I feel bad for Jodie-I really feel she could have acted anything she was given. Under a better writer, I think her run could have been something like MacGyver in Space.

[@jefferyyoung2580]

I didn't understand what flex going on

[@toasthall7027]

Chibnall done a good job with broadchurch was because it was a single plot over a series, murder happens to murderer found. A simple format with amazing talent. With doctor who he tried to clever have multiple plots with okay talent. If he had to cut an episode of broadchurch or if the restrictions were put it place on filming it, I think broadchurch would have still been a success. Because chibnall with the simple format is able to produce something great. The doctor who stuff is not in his skill sets

[@hollyturner4186]

I absolutely understand all your points. I enjoyed the series, but only because I was trying not to think about it too deeply. I agree that it was chaotic and we certainly didn't get answers to a lot of things.

[@foodini666]

my wife and i just binge watched season 11 12 and 13 of dr who to catch up and prepare for season 14 soon. we both thought it was great, especially the late episode. the new master actor we both think is great. thought were were only like 1 or 2 average episodes in the bunch. looking forward to the next doctor in a few months.

[@Ruddigore]

I absolutely hated everything about this season and it is one I will never watch again. I was 10 years old when Who started in 1963 and I have watched every episode of Who many times over (bar those destroyed by the BBC ) but I can honestly say I found 'Flux' a truly awful series and the quicker I can erase it from my memory the better. I really hope the specials will fare better.

[@EmpressOfCatsup]

They just go off at the end like nothing happened, but most of the universe was destroyed?? What are they going out to see? The destruction? This season took Earth-centrism to a ridiculous level.

[@LovelyRuthie]

This explanation makes sense, however I think for this serialised story to have worked it would have benefitted from 11 episodes rather than 6. You either cut the dead weight, or you expand on the characters enough that you care about them as well as actually following what is going on. I was hoping for so much more than what we got & regardless if Chibnall got the bad end of the deal due to covid, he's really not delivered & I don't expect the new year's special to redeem that in any way either. I am at this point looking forward to what RTD will bring us, the announcement of the next Doctor (I think it might be Sam Spruell - this season's 'Swarm' - I have my reasons as to why, but I digress) & the 2023 anniversary special. I have a feeling Jodie's era is going to be the one that fans skip in future...such a damn shame.

[@williamscampososorio8155]

Chibnall isn't writing Doctor Who, he's writing a bad versión of Star Wars.

[@williamscampososorio8155]

@Tom Meehan Me too, although I admit that I have not yet entered into the world of audio chapters (excuse me for some grammar mistake, my English is not very good)

[@williamscampososorio8155]

@Tom Meehan uff, thanks n.n

[@Paul-FrancisB]

I disagree it felt more like the finale of Star Trek TNG when Picard was split into 3 across time, battling an anomaly that would destroy the universe orchestrated by an omnipotent being in the form of Q finishing with a threat from that same being. 😀 TBH once we got to "Division" I was surprised not to see the universe on the back of four elephants stood on the back of a giant turtle, as part of the Marvelous multi-turtleverse!

[@daddywhogames6601]

Being someone who loved Broadchurch series one, yet hated series two, I got an insightful view into Chibbers' writing, lots of ideas and intrigue but no idea how to tie up plot threads......and doctor who flux is that same writing but times 1000. Why was Diane? Why was Claire? Why was Jericho Oh and Azure's reveal was that way because her human form was an actress who did well in line of duty so would have looked well in trailers

[@ACIoannina]

The Flux series made no sense, was terrible in almost every aspect but i can say that I appreciated the fact that it seemed to have a slightly higher budget and that it felt that things were happening in every episode, even if they were things that are genuinely stupid. My only hope is that in one of the specials they will show where did the timeless child came from, something that requires no further investigation (ie River Song gave a virgin birth after dying in the library to the timeless child) which will allow us to forget all about it and just move on in the future seasons

[@ACIoannina]

Also we have to notice that the Doctor did absolutely nothing useful in this season, other than use the passenger to eat the last wave of the Flux. The big baddie was the one who beat the other baddies and resolved the Doctor's problems in the end for no reason at all.

[@nightowl8477]

So strange. I agree that it seems they had to lose an episode of Flux *mid-production* ...but they also wrapped Jodie's final episode just short of a year before it's due to broadcast. For comparison, Twice Upon a Time was still being adjusted hours before transition. Some very peculiar scheduling here. I don't think they ever managed to adjust to Covid. Although the next special looks like its set to be one location, small cast, simple shoot of repeated shots. _That's_ how you write in Covid. Looks great, can't wait for that. Still concerned.

[@hank2188]

I hated that it was all questions and like no answers. I just binged it and kept going onto the next episode like surely they'll explain in the next episode or have a big reveal and never got it

[@olielapz3534]

My dog's food bowl makes more sense than Series 13. BAAAAD Writing

[@MrDarthT]

I'm not sure that the math works out. If you're counting the specials, then Chibnall will actually have nine episodes by the end of this. The six episodes of Flux, plus the New Year's Dalek special, and the two specials next year, including the BBC centenary special.

[@Leo-im6vv]

is it just me or did the timeless child had the same potential of The Hybrid but it didn't have the same impact?

[@Snuzzled]

What I really enjoyed was having something that felt like a modern version of the old Who serials, where it felt like one whole thing cut up into parts, instead of the modern series where even when it has an overarching season storyline it still feels like individual capsule episodes that can tie together, or can be enjoyed separately. Flux definitely needs to be watched as a whole to be fully enjoyed. You can't just come in and watch just the third episode and leave feeling satisfied at all. Now, it was definitely bloated and a bit confusing. There are definitely characters that could have easily been removed and the story, and feel, would have remained the same and would have felt less messy for it. But overall I liked the feel of it, I liked the underlying story, and the individual episodes themselves were entertaining and fun to me. Part of why I enjoyed it as much as I did may have been that I waited until it was all out and binged it in one night, rather than watching it as the episodes came out like most fans probably did. That probably helped my experience feel more cohesive and less confusing when it hasn't been a week in between episodes so I'm saying "Wait, who's that again?" Overall, I'm happy they tried this, though it definitely could have been better executed. I don't think something like Flux would have or could have worked as well if it was a full season long. Trying to tell a story and have it feel as cohesive and connected as it did in twelve episodes would have just been too long. Six episodes was just about perfect, and I do hope they revisit this format in the future, just with a bit better execution.

[@Phoenix-bi9bn]

I don't know if anyone explained it in the comments. Chibnall was asked late into production if he would add episodes to 2022. Instead of making more, he simply extended Flux into 2022, meaning the original run of it doesn't have an ending. That is what I got from his interviews

[@CJFS00s]

I don’t think he did extend flux into 2022 given The Vanquishers aired in 2021 and the three extra specials; Eve of the Daleks, Legend of the Sea Devils and The Power of the Doctor have nothing to do with The Flux at all. 👍🏻

[@gumboboy5446]

Chibnall never tried to develop any of the characters. He could have dropped some of the story lines midstream if he would have just developed a few of the characters in the end.

[@jvblhc]

As far as developing characters, he's pretty bad with writing companions, and you would think writing a solid companion would be on page one of the Doctor Who Writing Handbook. When I think of Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy and Rory and so one, I almost feel like they are friends. I know their personalities, I know their faults, I know their strengths. Heck, I know much more about Ian and Barbara, Ace or Tegan Jovanka then I will ever know Yaz, Ryan, Graham or Dan.

[@euandouglas4674]

The thing with the episode count assumes that the extra special we are getting in spring isnt counted as one of the 8, it very much could be. I think.

[@okanidug6035]

After all the bad reviews of Timeless Child, I think Chibnall didn't want to mess it up more and literally leaving explaining of it to RTD. I don't think he will fully deal with it even if some of the memories would come back when she opens the watch ( I'm gonna assume just before she regenerates) there won't be much explaining about what doctor knows now. Somewhere Ruth doctor is still alive. If there is any other regeneration, they are alive. They are helping people, they have companions etc. We know in earth and many other planets people know of the Doctor, civilizations are build thanks to him/her etc. How come our doctors never heard of any stories about the other doctors. Ruth was in modern era UK, How come UNIT didn't know about her or TARDIS? During the time war doctor "destroyed" Gallifrey. What did our past doctors thought about that? Division had other time lords as well and division is outside of Gallifrey, so what happened to them? Did they not care about their planet and their people?

[@Wrightbrain]

I do have question. It seems like filming of this series began on Nov 2020. Which, of course, means it was written all through 2020 when we were in the height of the pandemic. To me that means the COVID restrictions shouldn't have been much of a surprise, right? I think he should be at least be partially faulted for trying to even write such a huge overarching story when they didn't even know IF they would be filming at ALL. I just mean it was the wrong time for such an experiment. Stand alone episodes would have been a safer bet.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

It’s not that I think the COVID restrictions were a surprise, so much as Chibnall and the production team may have underestimated how much that would impact the shoot. Speaking personally I’m terrible at underestimating how long a video edit will take even though I know everything I have to do (“oh I’ll be done in the next hour”… five hours later, and so forth).

[@alanbeaumont4848]

'Chibnall sucks - it can't be that easy.' Occam's Razor begs to differ.

[@AxelaxiB]

I thought the Grand Serpent and Swarm were the same entity. They wear similarly distinguished clothing and their personalities are basically the same. They even wear the same goddam shoulder pads. But no? They're two different people?? I thought the grand serpent was the entity and the past and swarm was the future version and there would be an event somewhere in between where they would become the other.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Interesting idea. There's literally nothing in the show to directly support it though.

[@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212]

There was one story introduced in the 2nd shooting block of 3,5,6 - they should have got rid of it, people will hate me saying it but it was the UNIT, Kate and Grand Serpent stuff. Despite how much I love Kate and Unit, despite how good the scene between the Doctor and Grand Snake was - and yes I realise Kate is most likely of all these threads to appear again in the specials, it should have been cut - The final two episodes would have been better for it.

[@michaelkenner3289]

Sadly you're right, even though that subplot was probably my favourite part of Flux it wasn't needed for the larger season arc.

[@m.stewart8094]

Tldr version: Chibnall had no idea how to write sci-fi.

[@clomiancalcifer]

I still say that if you were going to start from scratch knowing you're only getting 6 episodes, scrap Williamson tunnels (that's just local flavor for Dan's sake), scrap Bel and Vinder and Great Serpent, scrap the weird Diane interlude, but most importantly scrap the Ravagers or Division (preferrably the Ravagers) and keep the Sontarans. A: because of all the stuff that is the story of the Sontarans trying to make hay out of the Flux works the best and is the most relatable/understandable and B: the Ravagers and Division are redundant to each other (if you keep the Ravagers keep them as a one off villain to depict what the hell Division is working against, ie you could just about keep Once Upon Time if you kept its scope localized to that episode and the Ravagers as a one off, defeated in that episode and thus end their narrative there), they have ultimately the same goal and the same means of doing it and C: preferably the Ravagers because they are literally just a whatsit out of nowhere that seems to have no foreshadowing and came off as you said 'that's not how any of this works, it's not how any of this ever worked...'. Whereas you can flesh out Division and even justify Tecteun's motives for bringing the Doctor with them.....

[@spluff5]

I think a more impactful final scene with the watch would be the Doctor realizing that her obsession with the memories was harming her relationship with Yaz. I actually thought that's what they were going with on my first watch.

[@IceNixie0102]

I loved Bel and Vinder. I hope they get a spinoff (if they're going to be doing some spinoffs). They are really the only part of this series I enjoyed.

[@mimnimpetite8681]

Okay, now having seen the review I can definitely agree that Covid probably really impacted the quality of the story. A lot of my problems came from how incredibly lore-heavy it was, but having a little more breathing room definitely could have helped with that. I do think that one thing that wouldn't have changed is how confusing the whole "time at war with space" nonsense was. Just,,, what?? Why??? They could have so easily gone "oh, here are two bad guys using an anti-matter weapon to destroy the universe because of their religion," instead of making so incredibly confusing. I really liked the visual designs of the Flux ppl (who's names I never actually caught). They were cool villains. But I had no idea what on earth they were trying to accomplish or where they came from for most of the series. Tecteun is also kind of disappointing. She had so much potential- the doctor's mother who is actually evil and tries to get the doctor to join her?? That I really like. What I don't like is the where tf has she been all this time, what even is division, oh and how does the fugitive doctor even exist? Does the Doctor not have memories of growing up as a child? Was the fugative doctor from before the 1st Doctor? My other problems, such as who or what is the Grand Serpent, Vincent and Bel, and what was going with Diane could all have been solved by more episodes, although I'm not entirely sure just one more would have been enough. Also, now that we've had a second special, doesn't that mean that we had the full number of episodes?

[@tobydelk2922]

It was great but it was a clusterfunk.

[@michaelholloway2295]

My biggest problem is how the slowly disintegrating village seemed to just fall off the story once the episode stopped. Yaz and Dan are out in the 1906 world suddenly. All the creepy village by itself in the cosmos stuff gone and forgotten.

[@jaredabrahamson6347]

There was so much I liked about this season, even in the chaotic second production block. Yeah it was a mess, but I had fun with it the whole way through

[@zaphod2073]

I really enjoyed Flux from the first to the last minute. Last time this happened to me was probably around series 6. Not to give a wrong impression: I absolutely adored several episodes from series 7 onwards, it just never happened again that I was waiting each week with excitement for next week's installment. Series 13 gave me back that feeling of being on the edge of my seat during each episode. Was it flawed? Certainly. But those flaws couldn't even come close to diminishing my new found love for the series. And while I'm so happy that I managed to connect with Flux after a having had a somewhat lackluster or uneven experience with series 11 + 12, I also feel sad, that a large part of the fandom couldn't find the same enjoyment as I did from Flux.

[@gregf9160]

I agree with everything you've pointed out. Which is rare 😀 obvious production discontinuity. But, no, not entirely. There is _something else_ awry here 🤷‍♂️

[@MrDarthT]

I think Azure captures Diane because it's implied that they can see time out of order, and know that Dan will be connected to The Doctor, and want to get to him through Diane. It's uncomfortably close to the "fridging" trope for my liking. Also, it's implied that they see time non-linearly, but not enough so to be able to predict their own defeats (twice).

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Ok but… they never do use Diane to get to… anybody. She’s just there. In Passenger. Yeah Dan finds that out but it’s never really leveraged for anything.

[@MrDarthT]

@@CouncilofGeeks I guess it was a backup plan that they never got to. Maybe they would have summoned Passenger to Atropos if The Doctor tried to escape. It might have been better had they at least said "we still have Diane" to the version of The Doctor that was in Division. It might have helped explain why The Doctor was just sitting there watching them for so long.

[@j4yb0b]

8 episodes have been shot. Flux, the New Year’s special and the Easter special. No missing episode.

[@j4yb0b]

@Tom Meehan Sure, but the thing up for debate is whether or not Flux had an episode cut during production. Since the Easter special was shot at the same time as Flux and the New Year special… that’s the eight episodes they intended to film. There’s plenty of reasons why Flux was awful without lumping it entirely on Chibnall, I just think this last minute episode switch up conspiracy is a reach.

[@maloujensen4917]

I have been af WHO fan since the reboot. However lately - especially with Flux - I tend to do other stuff while viewing. The episodes can’t keep my interest engaged. I wish I could hate the episodes, but I just don’t care about about them. I am not giving up, I am still watching, but I miss being exited for a new episode. Love your review though. I am looking more forward hearing your thoughts then the actual watching of the episode.

[@jvblhc]

"I tend to do other stuff while viewing" - oh, I've been there many times!

[@axelbruv]

And not a male character in sight...

[@AndrewDikens]

Instead of a long-winded comment, I'll simply say this... I 💯agree with you! & Thanks for bringing up all the filming and production limitations.

[@paddygirl]

I liked it but I was left somewhat confused at the end. I still don't know why the great serpent was relevant to the plot

[@MrMaster7112765]

The angels in Claire head was actually addressed, tecteun tells the doctor that they captured the angel anyway.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

I realized that during the edit, but it does leave the issue of not addressing how this impacts Claire.

[@Unknown-sg4tv]

How To Make Bad Outcomes Extremely impossible 1. Invent time machine. 2. Travel to 22nd century. 3. Invent a machine that can change probability to make probability certain that Bad Outcomes are Extremely impossible Forever.

[@mistymouse6840]

I watched the flux, opening they would forget about or at least deemphasise the lore from the timeless child. Instead, they doubled down on it. Ugh.

[@WhiteWolf496]

27:43 I know its unrelated but this is my exact problem with Rey in The Rise of Skywalker. They did the same thing again but worse and it didn't need to be done.

[@arionmoore7510]

Also whatever happened with the cobweb and the moving door of the TARDIS? Did they ever give an explanation of what that was?

[@nightseeker0092]

12 minutes into the video I had a headache. I skipped series 13 and now I'm glad I did. Jesus....mess was polite.

[@joellegillespie85]

I didn’t necessarily dislike Flux but I’m not really positively moved by it either. Like I don’t have any strong emotions towards it either way. My biggest gripe with the series is that everything seemed very clustered and thrown together, like the motives of the characters as well as the storylines in general we’re not very clear so I couldn’t figure out what exactly the purpose of the overall story was. I also didn’t like that there was no real character development for The Doctor and the main companions like one thing I enjoy about Doctor Who is the interactions between those main characters but we didn’t really get that due to The Doctor and The companions being separated for most of the series. I‘be been waiting for them to develop Yaz’s character fully but I kinda lost hope for that when they added Dan on as a companion like I still don’t understand why it couldn’t have just been The Doctor and Yaz, but I digress.