Councils VS Your Drone - What Powers do Councils Have to Stop Drone Flight?

Hey everyone! The topic of local councils in England and Wales and what powers they hold to stop your drone flight from or over their land has been something of a hot topic for some time in the UK hobby. Today, we bring together the knowledge we have gained over the past couple of years, including our advice on the topic and contributions from the CAA, NPCC Counter Drones and Daniel aka The Black Belt Barrister. Let us know your thoughts on this important topic in the comments!
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Sean Hickey, founder of Geeksvana and main channel presenter is a UK registered journalist who seeks to provide accurate information on what is an often misquoted and misrepresented industry and hobby. Sean currently holds certificates from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, including both the A2 Certificate of Competency (A2 CofC) and the General Visual Line of Sight Certificate (GVC). Flying all sizes of multirotor aircraft from the small DJI Mini 2 to larger aircraft including the DJI Inspire series for both hobby flights and commercial work.
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[@inspiredtotired8369]

Councils: They make the CAA appear to be rational and sane. They should stick to what they're good at - not fixing the pot holes on the roads.

[@DimmyV]

Omg don’t get me started with the pot holes. Worst I’ve seen London in my 35 years

[@Cassius..]

Pot. Holes arghhhh

[@jasonsuffolk]

You'd think that will all the road tax we pay the pot holes would get fixed

[@plymouthrovadventures.646]

LOL Councils ant any good at anything.. Unless they make cash from it.

[@tamsinmccormick]

Yes and NOT paying out on spurious claims for injury for trips involving paving flagstones often protruding above the required limit when the claimant was Corpus Alibi (elsewhere) !

[@iainwolstencroft3764]

@ 20:39 "The way the public view us" aka the daily fail test

[@mansellmovies]

Brilliant. Once again Shaun you have done a superb job with the address of this issue. Great advice throughout. Many thanks for your upload. 👍😉

[@d4dan734]

Can we demand that local authorities remove all cameras that are monitoring our every move. Cameras that have sophisticated technology like facial recognition. Lets level the playing field.

[@bugsy742]

Exactly 🤝

[@marcinszukalski9109]

Good one mate he

[@plymouthrovadventures.646]

Excellent Video with FACTS and knowledge. Thank You.

[@bigbellyflyer]

Thank you Geeksvana , I am glad I found your channel, very informative and well done . Our FPV community ,Drone pilots and viewing public will definitely learn a lot thanks to you. From an old Big Belly flying RC and FPV enthusiast from a land far away , Santa Cruz Ca .

[@Chris.BingoRingo]

Looking forward to this as a drone pilot and a Local Council Parish Clerk!

[@chrissofpv3017]

Keep up the covert work Chris...and happy flying.👍🍻

[@hommer45]

Great video.. easy to understand and answered most if not all of my concerns,Keep up the good work

[@FlyZoneFpv]

Great info Sean . You the man with this info. 👊🏻👊🏻👍🏻

[@racerroy1]

Being new to drone flying I find your channel to be very informative and do enjoy listening to the various points you make on behalf of the ameteur flyer's. I am fortunate that where I live I own 2,000 sq mtrs of land that I can take off and land on from where I can view/fly the whole village.

[@modem500]

Thank you Sean for a very informative video - let’s hope there are more responsible drone flyers than inconsiderate people out there!

[@IanPerry]

Excellent stuff - Thanks! Ian :-)

[@stevetaylor8446]

I have had nothing but positive comments while flying my drone so far and in fact, have had a lot of interest in what I do. So far, all positive, which makes our hobby so enjoyable. Roll on autumn...can't wait to do some flights and capture the changing of the seasons. Great video buddy, thank you for the research you have done with those in the know. Best wishes from Bromley, Kent

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

Let's face it, the exact position in law is clear; it's been part of the law of the land for 40 years. Add to the fact that there's already a High Court ruling on the matter. A by-law (and PSPO) cannot legislate where there's already a national law in place and it is enforced/regulated by the CAA. It will not stop local councils and their officers, who feel they have a bit more power and will be hell-bent on trying to use it. What will happen is they will take action, and you will defend yourself armed with the correct legal representation. It will cost you money to defend it. Once you've won the case, one may hope you are awarded full costs for recovery. 20:59 As you advise Sean, “just because you can, should you”. This is a piece of advice I wholeheartedly agree others should take into consideration. National government has come under almost constant pressure from the police, local authorities, NHS and private land owners following the actions of the “auditors” who may be 100% within the law in their actions, they cause total chaos with their actions and follow up drone flights. One in particular, aims to get arrested. He takes great joy in receiving an average payout of £4,000 for each time he is arrested. In fact, I believe he has received over £25K in the past 16 months doing this activity. I counselled him on not being so confrontational, only to get a response of “I’m not breaking the law”. well, that may be the case. But it doesn’t take anything away from the actions that he carries out (I'm a qualified Commercial Lawyer who also flies drones). It causes a great deal of harm to be honest drone Community. Eventually government will legislate against flying drones over these properties and unfortunately you will find they’ll include a great deal, more such as Public land, country, Parks, city parks and any other place where the public may be walking or enjoying the leisure activity. If or when this happens, I assume many people in this forum will look towards these auditors and thank them for ruining what was a decent hobby?

[@StreakyP]

One problem with councils being wrong but not realising it is that that doesn't stop them trying to take it to court & you then having the time & cost in court to defend your position & prove you are right.. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

[@Geeksvana]

100% agree.

[@ukspeedtraps]

Yet another excellent video I enjoy your channel content I have learnt a lot

[@Bigladderphotographer]

very well explained....a subject I'm often asked.

[@JohnCuppi]

From 19:00 on all great advice and common sense and what I have been saying for a LONG time as well since I started flying: that just because you CAN do something with a drone legally doesn't mean you should. It's important that everyone try to be a model for those in your locality flying drones. And try to be the better person, even if someone is who is "wrong" on the rules begins by hot-headedly coming at you. There is a lot of misunderstanding out there about drones, and sometimes a quick view of what you can actually see & do with your drone, will make or or break an altercation. We are all drone advocates in our immediate area is the way I look at it, and can make a positive local impact.

[@Geeksvana]

Well said John. We need to stand together as a hobby and demonstrate how safe and responsible we are. Most of all, we need to get out and fly!

[@JohnCuppi]

@@Geeksvana The only thing I will say is that park boards in particular are making it difficult to "get out in fly." We are losing this ability all the time in the US. Some of the best places to enjoy flying drones are the parks, especially for FPV, and there is plenty of space but we get banned from operation/takeoff/landing. Why is this happening? Park bylaws regarding drone operation can often be traced to one bad interaction in a park with a drone pilot and authority figure that causes this happen. The very last thing I would do if I were to be confronted flying FPV in a park with no drone ordinances is stomp my feet and yell "IT'S MUH RIGHTS TO FLY AND YOU CAN'T DO NUFFIN." That right can easily be erased from you with the flick of a pen.

[@douglasbrown3586]

Totally agree. I'm very new to this hobby and have come across a few you tube videos along lines of 'Audit blah blah' where the operator, imho, is simply exercising their rights and arguing their case just to get clicks and watches. Flying over factories with no aesthetic appeal and getting in to legal arguments with (admittedly often ill-informed) police officers just to get likes on you tube does the hobby no favours at all (again, imho). Another great video though Shaun. I do wonder though if the councils here in Scotland where the trespass laws are different would have the same authority...

[@xjet]

As I understand things, tresspass is a civil action and only enforceable after someone has had their implied right of access explicitly revoked. This adds weight to the claim that flying a drone over a property is not tresspass... at least not if you've never been told you can't do so by the property owner. I find the judge's ruling interesting in respect to the case cited by Daniel. Since New Zealand law is based very much on UK law, this might provide a defense when flying a drone on your own property via FPV and not using a spotter here in this country. Perhaps that explains why CAA refused to prosecute me when I challenged my right to do just that in a video. They investigated and responded to my challenge to their regs by saying "it is not in the public interest to prosecute". Yeah... right! 🙂

[@Geeksvana]

It could be an explanation! I wonder if there is a FOI that could answer it? Yes, civil only and therefore pretty much useless in the real world. I want this video to help give people a little confidence to get out and enjoy our open spaces not thinking the police are going to show up etc. It makes me angry when I read 'police will be called' in council policy.

[@johnsmith99997]

Your understanding is wrong. You DO NOT need to be aware of trespassing in order to trespass. IROA only applies where where is a reasonable need for access eg. delivering mail, meter readings. "Trespass to land occurs where a person directly enters upon another's land without permission, or remains upon the land, or places or projects. This tort is actionable per se without the need to prove damage." Flights over land are covered by Civil Aviation Act 1982 section 76 - "No action shall lie in respect of trespass or in respect of nuisance, by reason only of the flight of an aircraft over any property at a height above the ground which, having regard to wind, weather and all the circumstances of the case is reasonable, or the ordinary incidents of such flight, so long as the provisions of any Air Navigation Order and of any orders under section 62 above have been duly complied with"

[@dansroadtripz1195]

The trouble is that many of the frauditors abuse this because they want a reaction. DJ audits for instance never ask for permission, states that he WILL be flying his drone over their private property, and if they deny consent tells them less than politely that he is going to do it anyway, regardless of any breach of privacy or what is happening on a site. . It is part of the reaction they so desperately need, however, all that really happens is that companies (many of whom have real clout) will be seeking further restrictions, especially when some of these flights are illegal In one case there is a night flight where there is no possibility of flying with e drone in sight unless it has fitted strobes which would take it over the 25og weight and make the proximity to buildings illegal

[@matthewdray83]

great video thanks

[@SamWelbourneGuitar]

Thanks, very useful as I do my exams

[@andypc14]

Brilliant video - key takeaway for me is ‘any policy absent of a byelaw, is nothing more than noise’

[@davekelly8168]

Very interesting..

[@coenradstrydom]

Good video, thanx. You know, these really do help others understand the topic better. I built myself a small drone a few years ago - but I never really enjoyed flying it. I was always too worried that I might be breaking some or other obscure law, or that Karen might pounce. Unfortunately, if you watch some of these "Audit" videos on KZbin, it seems there are still too many uninformed people / officials out there.

[@iankynaston-richards883]

Local councils would be unlikely to be able to successfully prosecute for trespass given that they don't require you to ask for permission for whole range of other legal activities.

[@Geeksvana]

100% agree. I doubt many legal departments would want anything to do with that type of battle!

[@chrisjohnson-wk8os]

A guy got done for a community protection order for fling his drone at the park. Now that park is at the end of my garden so I wonder if I would get the same if I stand in my garden and fly over the park

[@b00gyman1]

​​​@@chrisjohnson-wk8oshope you don't mind me asking, got done in what way? Was the order visible anywhere online or in the park?

[@bobbailey7024]

I asked my Local Authority and the reply was, "I'll get back to you." That was the last I heard, so until they tell me to stop flying I'll carry on.

[@fpvrc9829]

this is a problem if you live their and it effects your tenancy, i got a letter from my estate office, and had to go have a chat, i was told, it was illegal, i asked how and was told its against aviation law :) i almost fell over laughing, the flight in question was from my roof, i live on the top floor, and have access to the roof because its a fire escape, so no i dont have to scale the building to get their, i was also told that it was against h&s laws, i should be wearing a harness... its a fire escape, so i would hope its safe to be up their without a harness, and at the time their was work being done on a identical block opposite, lots of workmen, and none of them were wearing a harness.... in the end i said that if your telling me the council dont want me flying a drone their then i wont do it, but dont accept that i was doing anything illegal. and im not sure what they can do about it. I feel like im just being bullied, but i just dont need the hassle.

[@simonelliott5956]

You can always rely on Sean & Co to give you a balanced view. The most important thing, is don’t let this put you off flying, just know where you stand before you take off and be prepared to be polite and amenable if you are challenged.

[@ThePeteW]

The issue that I’ve not seen addressed anywhere is this. Say council decides they don’t want you to take off/land in some area. What happens if you take off from (say) outside the park gates, walk into the park for a pleasant, safe flight, then walk out again and land outside the park? I agree that best not annoy folk. But if they are just being (how shall we say) spoilsports, then maybe it’s an option.

[@Geeksvana]

The take-off isn't the issue alone. Walking into the area would mean you are then carrying out the activity against the landowner instructions. It is the same as the hand launch argument. Where you are is the point of issue, if that makes sense. I would be interested to hear what a solicitor might say in terms of enforcing it as it would be a fun theoretical exercise.

[@keithmassey8588]

I was a professional photographer for 50 odd years and I always worked on the principal that if you are on The King's Highway you could legally take a photograph from that public position. So long as you aren't flying and breaking any CAA privacy or other rules I would have thought you could fly over the open area at a reasonable height as the landowner does not own the airspace above their property? We must defend our reasonable rights and not kow-tow to those who always say no without a lawful argument.

[@msinclair8261]

Thanks for a very informative video. I try and fly my drome as legally as I can and if I am in doubt as to whether I can fly or not will lean towards caution. My gripe is with some KZbinrs who fly drones with the intention of upsetting people at local businesses or police stations just to make some sort of point. Their behaviour really grates with me and they are not helping those drone pilots/operators who are wanting to fly without causing upset. I imagine those videos will end up being shown in court by those wanting to ban drone usage as evidence of bad drone usage. Perhaps those operators need to be spoken to. I watched a video the other day of a drone being flown above Bow police station. It was inside the restricted area for central London and very close to the centre line of City Airport runway. I commented this to the KZbinr who believes he had done nothing wrong.

[@waynetykocki3964]

21:36 I would suggest avoiding confrontation whenever possible, however that doesn’t mean you should be bullied into not being able to fly. Politely point out the legal position as far as you are aware. I’ve flown purely for practice and not been recording the flight and been challenged once I explained I wasn’t recording my flight although legally I could the person was happier with my flight. Still not totally happy but I did act in a polite way and not cocky. You won’t be able to please everyone but I’ve had some genuinely become interested in the hobby. I do think are attitudes are very important and there are times when it’s best to walk away.

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

Carry a copy of the law with you. Be polite and offer the (laminated copy) so they can see for themselves, you’re breaking no law.

[@sjdyt]

I must admit I hardly use my mini 2. I bought it a couple of years ago as an extension to my photography hobby but now I’m afraid of using it anywhere other than from my own garden, which I rarely do, and even then I feel paranoid that a neighbour will kick off even though I’m flying within rules and have no interest in being nosey. If I’m not worried that I’ll be challenged by a ‘know it all’ I’m worried I’ll be mugged for my iPhone. I wish I’d never bought it! Useful information here though, thanks.

[@JEZ_C_MEDIA]

Tip 4u wear a gopro when flying it will keep a lot of KARENS away as they just might end up on youtube for their stupidity.

[@AggyGoesOutdoors]

I'm exactly the same, have a background in photography, and bought a cheapie drone around spring 2019. I figured a cheap drone was a good idea before splashing the cash on a DJI. It was well over 250g, so diligently got my license, got my operator stickers, followed all the rules, checked the maps, even logged my flights in the NATS Drone assist app. I mostly just took high altitude photos of the Surrey countryside landscape sunsets, sunrises etc.. Oh my god the grief! park rangers would appear from nowhere, with every conceivable reason under the sun why I couldn't fly, even when I'd show them the map zones and my logged flight they just wouldn't have it. And then there were the general members of the public, complete busy bodies, lived in the vicinity seemingly fearful I was going to steal their life savings or such like. 9 out of 10 people who would approach me were completely paranoid. I'd try to start a dialogue, I'd even show them some of my favourite sunset photos saved on my phone, try to show them that I had zero interest in where ever they lived. I think much of their paranoia stemmed from the Gatwick fiasco a few months earlier. Eventually I lost my drone in a tree about a year later, and truly I was relieved it was gone because nearly every flight ended with me trying not have a heated conversation with some random when I'm just trying to mind my own business and take some nice photos. Well a month ago I got bitten by the bug again, bought a mini2... 4 weeks later wondering why I bothered. My local area is now just a blanket no flyzones, the council have now put up local byelaw no drone signs everywhere. So I now have to drive a considerable way to find somewhere I can fly and even then if there's anyone else about I'm too fearful to fly, half the time the drone doesn't even come out the bag. 😥

[@mattbugr4283]

I've never had a problem flying my DJI mini around my home town, across redevelopment sites, parks, woodlands and reservoirs . If you're below 250g just follow the line of sight rules. I've got some great vids of almost inaccessible graffiti. I think you should get out there with an air of confidence and get those great pics.

[@hiddenguy67]

it's so annoying that this happens only in the uk this is the one thing that I wish was like america

[@kevindarkstar]

​@@AggyGoesOutdoorsand this fear and unease over a relatively simple hobby is exactly why I feel all this heavy handed regulations is killing what was easy and enjoyable, but not so much now 🙄

[@formicapple2]

Public Space Protection Orders are being used in other ways that the Government envisaged. Local Government Officers will always abuse their authority. Drones are the next thing to be targeted.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@idavidmcclune In regards to Richmond Council it seems considerable oversight which should be challenged when the PSPO comes up for renewal - or the drone community start a fighting fund to seek a judicial review.

[@paulrounding5260]

The way I will look at any regs is if the DJI app says I can fly, and I'm not taking off on private land then I'm good to go.

[@Geeksvana]

The DJI app is not accurate for airspace clearance. We explain in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmfXqZV9eNplfaM

[@lindsayheyes925]

This is an outstanding work of journalism @Geeksvana, and should reassure many a pilot. And I have tucked away Bernstein v. Skywhatever 1977 to quote in the future. Thanks Sean. Proper job!

[@raykeogh1972]

I thought WE own councils ? Do we not pay tax so our council for them to look after where we live?

[@Geeksvana]

That makes sense to me, Ray. However technically the council own lands privately through companies and there is enough legal separation for it to count. That doesn't stop my personal view that areas such as parks and alike are 100% public access and no policy can take that away.

[@mekdemltd]

Try using that argument the next time you park in a council carpark without paying the fee but on the drone side of things yea we can fly.

[@sophisticat7673]

thanks for this, very useful. You could have added that trespass in and of itself is not a criminal act - it has, in order to be a crime, to be accompanied by the 'mens rea' (guilty intent) to commit an ACTUAL criminal act. remember Michael Ryan who was found sitting on the queens bed. he had trespassed but had never intended to harm the queen or damage property. No criminal act had been committed. If you simply trespass without any mala fides, the worst the landowner can do is to sue you. And then, they have to win...

[@chrissofpv3017]

Never give a posh woman power over you...they'll abuse it . Had a few encounters with Gosport Council toffs,and Fareham Council toffs...trying to tell me ALL drone flying is illegal in planet England "Really...is that so..uhhah" I Parle back to them .Confuses their tiny brains every time .🤭😂

[@dansroadtripz1195]

Gosport and Fareham are heavily controlled because of the military sites and airfields. Apart from the small peninsula section the whole of Gosport and Fareham are restricted because of Fleetlands and the Dedalus airfields. Drone Scene will confirm that flying in Gosport and Fareham is mostly prohibited

[@MaffTUK]

Thank you, very informative channel 👍

[@DudeWithADrone]

With a DJI Mini 2 or newer its easy to hand take off and land. Does that get around taking off from land where its not permitted?

[@daz1969]

The less the councils know about drones flying in their parks the better because they’ll use it to make money by charging you to take off from their land. I have zero respect for greedy selfish councils who are only interested in ripping off the public whatever way they can. When flying my drone my main safety priority is the airspace around me and whatever hazards are close by. Everyone who has no interest in drones generally hate drones so will do whatever they can to ban them from their land.

[@fpvrc9829]

thats not entirely true, i have been approached by people that are curious, and have had many pleasant conversations with people that have never seen a drone before.. yes their are lot of people that just dont like them for no good reason, i do wonder how often they do things that others dont like....

[@daz1969]

@@fpvrc9829 Oh yes you often get the curious people too but in general they don’t hate drones and ask a few questions of interest then be on their way.

[@bunston1000]

I have many hobbies, some which pre-date my hobby of drone flying, which in comparison to some of them, is fairly recent. I have had an obvious increase in my hobby time(s) due to retirement. And some of the situations you can find yourself in are remarkably similar. When I fly my drone, I guess like many others, I have my tried, tested, trusted and favourite places to fly. This familiarity can cause complacency, but nonetheless, on every flight, I still maintain the same exacting levels of safety and rule observation. I have had interactions with members of public, and I am glad to say they have been very pleasant ones, often there are many questions, purely and simply because people are curious, and I have often been happy to show the drone, and what it takes to fly it, in a few cases even introducing others into the hobby. One of my other hobbies, which I often carry out in public is ham radio. I have had a full U.K. Amateur Radio licence for over forty years. Does it create conflict in public? Yes, sometimes it does. Even with safety in mind some people will cause you problems, and dare I say it?…….Because they can. I’ve had situations (even in a very large local park), where I have set up a station / antenna well away from general footfall in the park. And it is almost like I have put up a people magnet, and the comments are priceless, “you really shouldn’t be here”, “ I hope that’s not going to harm me”, the list goes on. I have to say generally, people that do interact are curious or interested. I was once operating c.w. (morse code), and a middle aged couple called the police, then came over and told me what they had done and I should wait for their arrival…….The reason? They suspected me of being a spy! After a large number of officers arrived, a short conversation, the officers went on their way, satisfied the security of the country was safe. Comparing hobbies to drone flying may seem irrelevant, but any hobby you do, particularly in public, especially if it is unusual, it’s a safe bet, you will always need to make sure you are always doing the right thing at all time. Stay safe everyone.

[@Cellgm2000]

im i right in thinking, take off / landing spots are the issue ? and as long as your not in a restricted flight space , & under the legal 400ft (120m) your fine to go over buildings/ ? land i need a really really dumb down version ha.

[@johncreen5957]

For a hobbies of anything it should be down to themselves to check, if fishing is your hobby then checking the authority or land owner for their permission, same with shooting / hunting, just my thoughts

[@n0w3lly90]

The difficulty is not finding any place to get definitive information on local bylaws, and this is problematic, because, I would like - for example - be able to mark on a map clearly where i can or cannot take off or land

[@stoofur]

I live near the New Forest on the south coast. Their website appears to say that you cannot fly a drone. The New Forest is a huge area, does anyone feel that this policy is correct/enforceable?

[@KKingkwade]

He does all ways tell you the full truth

[@user-zs5zo9xw9l]

I have a question - I have a DJI Mini 3 Pro - Flyer ID and Operator ID and fully insured for using it commercially to inspect roofs of clients and provide videos for properties for sale in the UK I am a little lost - can I fly my drone over a building and close to a building to provide visual video and images of hard to reach areas for clients and for insurance companies to provide them of evidence of damage or good condition. Thanks In advance

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Sean, I think you did a damned good job with this video.

[@Geeksvana]

Thanks Jason! Appreciate your kind feedback sir!

[@clearairflying]

So many public bodies have such an inflated sense of their own importance. The fact that they can literally just make up policies on the hoof, with little or no oversight (or apparently any thought as to legality) is something we should all be concerned about. The attempts to use PSPOs to criminalise law-abiding drone pilots is shocking. I bet the National Trust wish they could do that!

[@goingwildagain]

Do you think a drone flyer could be prosecuted from a KZbin vlog published? So I take off from a spot that has no restrictions zone and can't find a council policy after a brief Google. Yet my flight is across say National Trust property land but not in any no fly zones could the council impose a prosecution fine if they had a policy knowing your take off point from the footage . Would or could the National trust have any say too in the matter? Maybe it's wise to not film the take off or landing point. I know dji have a log. Ade I personally don't feel NT would have a issue and if no incidents occurred would the council even be bothered. I fly a mini2

[@garylinnane917]

Coventry, West Midlands apparently has no flying drones in place

[@chrisgc77]

Where is the best place to look for bylaws?

[@RobR386]

TBH I just get on with the flight, after doing what I need to make sure it’s safe to do so, if there are no signs, if the area looks sketchy, I don’t fly

[@johnhath5940]

Hi, I'm new - ish. But the drone code point 8 says bylaws can limit where we can fly. My local council prohibits takeoff and landing and flying over their land. Additionally, they want to give licences ( with fees) to film. Is this lawful? What if I take off and land from a car?

[@wembley636]

What's the open Category? I'm guessing Drones less than 250g? I have a Op Id for A1 & A3 (500g Drone). I am really new, Drone bought less than a week ago (no flight yet, doing my research), looking to go out this weekend. With all the laws, Restrictions am a little bit terrified, I don't want break any laws, I don't to piss anyone off etc. Any advice people can give would be really helpful

[@fredmunson8952]

The best policy is to be respectful when flying your drone.

[@WayneM1961]

Very interesting topic Sir. I have know doubt you have heard of KZbinrs such as D.J. Audits. Now this guy has come under serious threats not only to his drone but himself too. I admire his knowledge and his ability to show he is actually acting lawfully but like other "auditors" he does seem to go out of his way to be confrontational, so really, they don't do us flyers any real favours. Any thoughts on this? Have a good weekend.

[@jezmarshall9941]

Auditors are muppets seeking confrontation for clicks. They actually 'audit' nothing at all, but bring droning into disrepute.

[@WayneM1961]

@@jezmarshall9941 I suggest you read my post again. I did say that but yes you are right.

[@alancampbell1008]

I'd be interested in how this applies to Scottish freedom of access rules where there is in fact no offense of trespass.

[@Mr-J...]

Part of the problem with Councils and other agencies is their constant abuse of the instruments they are given. PSPOs are a massive abuse. They quietly put them in place, and when not appealed against after a period of time, they are deemed valid and indisputable. But nearly always contradict human rights - both natural and those supposedly protected under ECHR. Byelaws are another area of abuse. The byelaws given are always restricted in scope legally, but that scope is often overreached. The sadest part being, none of the instruments provide publically accessible remedies where abuse is shown.

[@explorewithgeoff]

I don't think it'll be long before all drones are banned in the UK. I really think it'll come to that in the end. I'm getting as much video footage for stock as I can with my M3P while I'm still allowed to.

[@bugsy742]

I absolutely agree with you buddy 👍🤝🤝🤝

[@iandico]

I also agree a total ban will happen,as a result of stupidity by a select few drone pilots who think they can do anything,only my opinion but all this so called KZbin auditing with drones over companies that ask for it not to be done,but carried out anyway after the heated argument will sadly end all our fun,rendering all our nice drones useless and worthless.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@iandico The Auditors are the biggest threat to the hobby as they are engaging mainly against big business who, ultimately in this country, and especially with the current Government, pull the strings. They could achieve the same results by flying over without doing the "go to gatehouse and try to embarrass the security officers then challenge the manger" stuff - If you must get the drone footage the day before when no one will notice then go and do your 'Auditing' another day. And keep the two videos seperate.

[@iandico]

@Barrie Shepherd absolutely spot on Barrie it's seems to me they just want the confrontation all the time as if to prove a point,these auditing idiots will kill the hobbie for sure,as you say why not just fly over it anyway 🙄

[@iandico]

@@ragndroneman it sure is unbelievable and sadly will kill what we have for sure

[@ChrisKyriakides]

Hmm… 🤔 Just to clarify the 120m maximum ground clearance limit, as far as councils are concerned, when flying over a pothole in the road is one meant to take into account the depth of the pothole 🤨... Asking for a friend 😅

[@davidmedd2931]

Tried to fly at Kirkstall Abbey in Leeds recently. Checked signage to find NO drone usage prohibited. Started filming responsibly away from public. Was halted by Leeds council employee stating I was breaking their rules. They handed me leaflet stipulating a bye law that banned the use of drones. I contested his comments but since I was standing on their land, on this occasion decided to leave albeit disgruntled.

[@akosichiro_dronaut]

Hi Geeksvana, another great topic. I would like to ask about this situation wherein a local park is prohibiting drones flying and dogs. Implying that a fine would incur...however I found out that a company is imposing such rule and I do not see any council bylaw prohibiting drones. Also, even with the sign that is prohibiting dogs and drone I see dog walkers around the park 😂

[@Geeksvana]

Check if there is a Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO) in place as that sounds similar. If there is one, check if drones are listed as a nuisance.

[@akosichiro_dronaut]

@@Geeksvana I do not see any documents about drones..only dogs, booze and psychoactive substances... I do not really understand why such governing bodies tend to put down our beloved hobby 🤣

[@Geeksvana]

It is good there is nothing about drones in the PSPO, which means the anti drone feeling is probably only a policy and not enforceable.

[@akosichiro_dronaut]

@@Geeksvana thank you so much for your inputs 👍👍👍

[@DimmyV]

Do you know if you read some of these documents about drone, councils publish. The interpretation of terminology doesn’t say specifically you cannot fly. Read carefully the wording. The permits and fees they ask for is a joke. Too long to process and the money isn’t used to fund upgrading the rules for drones. Definitely something councils need to think about. It should be integrated with altitude Angel app and be able to get permission within 2-3 days as weather in England is inconsistent when planning and if there any fee it should be reasonable for hobbyist and business and the money is used toward the hobby.

[@Torrox4]

The council are appointed by the General Public as custodians, the land / parks are public lands to be used for recreation. This shouldn't even be a question, is the Public land being used by a member of the public, is the flight safe & according to Regs... Crack on then. The CAA shouldn't care about public land as a takeoff point even if there's an incident, as he says, its not their perview. If it was a safe flight then they shouldn't make any judgements, the fact he says they would shows bias.

[@fpvrc9829]

CAA dont care where you take of and land as long as you not in breach of airspace regulations... that was the point made in this video.

[@Torrox4]

@@fpvrc9829 Except he said in the event of an accident they would use it as part of their theory as to the type of pilot flying if any issues arose. Its in the smaller detail of his answer, I just made note of it.

[@dansroadtripz1195]

The flaw is that ever

[@TheMrRatzz]

Why is everything still a kind of grey area when it comes to drones?

[@cragly8759]

I have been told on more than one occasion that I cannot fly my drone whilst up on the Lake District fells, due to it being private land and that I need permission to take off, despite the Park Authorities own website saying drone flight was ok as long as you remain respectful of the environment and others. I had no answer to these people so wondered if they were correct in what they are saying. If they are could I not just take off from a public footpath?

[@fpvrc9829]

@@PixelSplash999 i would take a guess that a drone pilot knows when and where their aloud to fly far better than Jo Blogs :), if its a official saying this, i would ask them to point to the rules their suggesting exist.

[@jezmarshall9941]

Although a National Park has open access, the land is privately owned and the landowner can impose a ban if they wish ( and most national park land is SSSI, which is technically off limit to drones). A footpath only allows you legally to walk on it, even stopping to picnic is not a right, so it does not make any difference to the TOAL issue.

[@n0w3lly90]

That CAA guy you interviewed there already has a coloured view on things doing as he did emphasise how much obsessed on safety he is and that he feels uncomfortable to take off. And it's telling things are cultural/ about feelings

[@johnsmith99997]

What liabilities are landowners exposed to by allowing take-off and landing?

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

None as far as I can see (I'm a qualified Commercial Lawyer who also flies drones).

[@bugsy742]

@@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming and a former Bootneck by any chance? 😃👍

[@ThisIsJamesL]

What if one takes off outside of council parkland where bylaws exist, then once airborne, one enters council land whilst flying towards intended photographic interest, then when finished lands in the same location as launched?

[@Geeksvana]

That is perfectly acceptable. The bylaw has no power over airspace.

[@ThisIsJamesL]

Could be problematic if one needs to perform an emergency landing in the park,@@Geeksvana .

[@curiousjames]

So here's what I'm wondering... would I be allowed to take off and land from a footpath that is on a farm for example? I.E. where there is the right for ramblers to walk?

[@d4dan734]

If any council passes a bylaw to ban drones from filming i would encourage people to make a written complaint about government controlled public cameras.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

That is a good idea - Maybe a start is to make a formal Subject Access Request, get your friends to join in, I'm sure the Council will be happy to oblige. I have recently started documenting the location of the ones around heer and am waiting to be challenged as to why I am photographing them. I wonder if flying a drone right up to one and pointing the camera at it would upset those faceless persons who now watch our every movement?

[@d4dan734]

@@barrieshepherd7694 Thanks for the advice

[@dansroadtripz1195]

Excellent idea, and then have the same restrictions placed on drones regarding use of data

[@ABPhotography1]

Considering the cost of these DJI models as well as being an expensive hobby, it's in our best interests not to be an idiot and break the rules. The modern drone comes with a built-in aircraft proximity warning and restricted airspace. It will warn you to keep within the rules and avoid any incidents.

[@kayak1969p]

with all the auditing going on and the aggressive interactions ( just for the records there are some fantastic and decent, polite and respectful auditors) they create is going to cause issues soon and i think the councils will try to ban use of 250gn drones in areas they deem should be unnaproachable.

[@brucestirton2264]

I am planning to use a drone to follow a rowboat ( an 8 ) which follows the boat as a learning sxercise for the rowing crew. Am I allowed to do this ?

[@Geeksvana]

Hey, Bruce. As the rowers are aware of your flight, if you brief them on safety and what to do if something happens with the drone, they are then classed as involved people. This removes the separation distances issue.

[@FPV-TV419]

If there are "no drones" signs at public locations that have no phone number or reference information.. how do we even know that the sign has any genuine legal compliance?Anyone can buy signs and put them up... for me, if the sign has no information other than the words "no drones" and I'm taking off from public land... then I'm not doing anything wrong. It's only a matter of time before every park, beauty spot etc has no drone use signs, whether they have any legal standing or not. There is going to become a time when we are going to have to stand up and fight for our hobby. On the whole, drone use is extremely safe, it's still largely public perception of a drone they see flying that causes panic and negativity around the hobby because they don't understand. It is important to have a basic understanding of drone operation laws (as complicated as they make them)! But id say that the hobby is far safer now that it was 10 years ago... and still not one single case of an uninvolved person being injured, or a catastrophe of any kind. I would put money on it that the biggest majority of drone users today, aim to fly legally and responsibly. I would be prepared, as I'm sure any other responsible operator would be, for the need to have recreational public liability insurance when flying In public places, as much to protect myself in the event of an accident. But then it's not a requirement to have insurance to ride a pedal bike in a public place, and you still have the risk of running into somome... Rant over ... for now.. lol

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

Looking at the law you will find that while they may not be able to enforce it. You can guarantee that someone seeing those signs will call the police reporting a nuisance. The police will arrive hear the side of the story of the person reporting it, who will also rely on the signs. The police will ask you to stop flying, you will tell them that you’re within your rights and you’re not breaking any laws. The next thing you know you’ll be arrested under the public order act, a breach of the peace. Therefore, the landowner has managed to have the rules enforced via a different route . As we call in law, using “The Ways and Means Act”.

[@robertsmith4466]

What about taking off and landing on a public footpath, road or any public right of way.

[@gary6759]

When will authorities act reasonable and provide rule/byelaws that reflect safety measures and not predices. In my area only one park is made available for hobbiest drone flyers. In Bristol of 1/4 million people there is only two sites. The whole of National Trust land has a drone ban irrespective of location is highly predicial. There is land well away from the sately homes, buildings, public and animals yet its still banned.

[@gtube2306]

Correction - Councils do not own the land - We do the local residents. The council will manage the land on our behalf. But they do'nt want the residents, council tax payers to know it, because they would loose control.

[@andrewkift6746]

What if I take off from public land, fly my drone over the council land/park and then walk into the park with my controller and continue to fly? I haven't taken off on their land nor will I land on their land, is controlling a drone an offence?

[@Geeksvana]

The issue there is that you the operator are on their land conducting something they don't want to happen there. So it doesn't matter if you took of elsewhere and walked into the area. That's my ipinokn. Be an interesting court case though! Taking off outside and flying over where you stay where you are is of course permitted.

[@andrewkift6746]

@Geeksvana it's not something I would do personally as it looks like a disingenuous attempt to circumnavigate "laws/byelaws." it was a hypothetical query. I agree with your take on it Sean. Well done with channel, its the most knowledge based information available in this country, period. You and your guests discuss the nuance and grey areas in great detail which takes an enormous load of the average flyer who had no time and no interest in trawling through and disecting laws, guidance, policies, advice etc. Thank you.

[@Geeksvana]

Thank you! Appreciate the kind feedback. Means a lot.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

Question is is there a definitive difference between Public Land and Council Land? We all have our views e.g. Parks are Council Land, Pavements and Laybys are Public Land but, I suspect, Councils will argue any land, not in private ownership, is theirs to administer so they own the roads, pavements, verges, laybys etc.

[@alisonwunderland5847]

Of course you cannot be prohibited from flying over any land, aircraft are not restricted except in controlled air space.

[@tazzy3469]

i'm here...... although i might not be later.... but i might be here, if i'm not there :)

[@Geeksvana]

600 coming your way if you are late...

[@stewartmcgrath1831]

Any tips on where to find this information of council policies? I have seen freedom of information requests from 2 years ago where councils say they don't, but what if that policy changes? Bringing up a two year old FOI request I'm guessing would not be regarded as doing reasonable checks? Would I have to ask specifically or is it likely to be on their website? I ask because the local council either pass me on to someone who has no idea what I'm talking about or simply doesn't know and offers no further contacts

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

When the apply a PSPO, they have to advertise it. Generally it appears around the area where the PSPO is to be enforced, the council house notice board and in the papers. I would imagine you would have to be subscribed to your local councils news. Email releases if you want to ensure that you catch all of these notices coming out. Once the council has published their intent to have a PSPO enforced, you have a certain period to object under the strict terms of appeal. Under Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 (ASBCPA) s59, a PSPO can be created if a local authority is satisfied, on reasonable grounds, that two conditions are met. The first is that activities carried on in public in the local authority’s area have had a detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality, or such activities are likely to occur. The second is that the effect of those activities is, or is likely to be, of a persistent and continuing nature, is such as to make the activities unreasonable, and justifies the restrictions imposed by the PSPO. Once those conditions are met, and subject to limited procedural requirements, a PSPO can impose both positive and negative obligations on people in the area, breach of which, without reasonable excuse, is a criminal offence. Enforcement is by means of a fixed penalty notice of up to £100, or prosecution in the magistrates’ court. There has also been controversy where private companies have been financially incentivised to issue PSPO fines, under contractual arrangements with local authorities. It was recently reported that a private enforcement company has collected over £80,000 from cyclists fined for breaching a PSPO in Peterborough. Imagine how vigorous they would be against drone operators? To challenge a local authority’s decision to introduce a PSPO, ASBCPA s66 created a specific statutory appeal route, which must be followed by ‘interested persons’ (those who live in, work in or regularly visit the relevant area). The deadline for issuing a challenge is six weeks from the date the PSPO is made, and the relevant venue is the High Court. There is no permission stage. The grounds for such a challenge can be: (a) that the local authority did not have power to make the order or variation, or to include particular prohibitions or requirements imposed by the order; or (b) that a requirement under the statute was not complied with in relation to the order. The Act explicitly prohibits interested persons from challenging a PSPO by any route other than the s66 procedure, but the standard judicial review jurisdiction is not ousted for those who do not have interested person status. You might be aware of the current interest in the PSPO that’s in force within 100m of an abortion clinic in Birmingham? People are being arrested for praying in their head. Yesterday, a man was arrested 90 m away from the clinic for “thinking abortions were wrong in his head”. Local councils who are members of the Local Government Association are trying to have a UK wide PSPO put in place. Whereby it doesn’t matter where you are, if you have the intention to object to an abortion clinic, even if you are at home and the thought is from your inner monolouge, you’re breaking the law, can be arrested and fined. The situation has gone mad and the problem is national government doesn’t appear to be interested in upholding what was a long standing tradition of freedoms in this country. Today we are constantly having new legislation curtailing our freedoms, despite the fact that our historic freedoms have been around for 1100 years. One would query whether or not that has been sufficient time to put in place all laws that need to be put in place. Obviously everyone needs to fight these PSPO’s, if you don’t, you will find everything from the slightest bit of antisocial behaviour to the ability to question a local authority will disappear.

[@stewartmcgrath1831]

@Major Pain A good in depth reply, thanks for the information. Good to know. I shall do some digging 👍

[@bugsy742]

@@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming an awesome explanation 🤝 throughly enjoyed reading that bud 👍

[@barrieshepherd7694]

You should be able to find all PSPOs on your Councils Website - and they should be displayed in the area they cover - but like the requirement for "CCTV in use" warnings never seem to be. Also note that in general PSPOs last three years - and then need to be re advertised and renewed, when you can raise objections. Some councils forget to renew them so don't warn them😊

[@ukdronelife]

👍🏻

[@Jo-br8td]

I have been in discussion with my local council ( Scotland ) with regarding flying my mini 3pro.. And all I can find is that the takeoff & landing of a drone from public space in my area is only a matter of personal opinion on behalf of the parks department.. As there are no bylaws, no signs, and no pspo in place according to my local councils legal team.. In my view I see this as a green light to fly with due diligence..

[@Geeksvana]

That is 100% how I would read the situation too. Great research.

[@EEWW2006]

If I may pick your brains if I can. I want to do a nice hyperlapse of the Superblue Moon on Thursday night. Weather dependent of course. Mini 3 Pro with strobes on over a town doing an orbit of a tower block. 90mtr AGL. I'm A2CofC and commercially insured. As far as I can see it's legal. Your opinion would be valuable

[@Geeksvana]

You have all the bases covered really well! The only thing to keep in mind is the Mini 3 Pro might be over 250g with the strobes, which of course isn't a problem as you hold an A2 CofC. But the sub 500g allowance comes with 'no intentional overflight of uninvolved people'. That doesn't mean you can't over fly if anyone comes into the area, just have a plan to minimise if it happens. But that is REALLY micromanaging the issues, you will be fine. Have a great flight and share the results here as a link?

[@EEWW2006]

@@Geeksvana I will do just that. Going out for a practice run tonight with the observer. It's also a confidence check of the avionics. Yes I know it can do it but I want to see it do it and I might just have a little less fear of it flying over the horizon never to be seen again. Im trying to do everything properly. Flight Safety, risk assessments, all that good stuff so in the event of policemen arriving to find out what's going on my papers will always be in order.

[@EEWW2006]

@@Geeksvana it's a bit gash, I was only at 75m but for a first effort I'm quite pleased with that. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHy5p6WVh6x2jdEsi=zzHNODwsGl2YjeFP

[@Davidvrjsullivan]

Just a curios question. Do you have any drone videos or is this just all about news?

[@cyberphox1]

Is a drone/multi rotor classed as a model aircraft?

[@Geeksvana]

Not in the definitions of many byelaws. Older byelaws created decades ago also often talk about how the aircraft is fuelled, mainly because they didn't want people refuelling petrol powered models in the park etc.

[@cyberphox1]

@@Geeksvana here is the example: 18. A person shall not in the, pleasure ground intentionally obstruct, disturb, or annoy any other person in the proper use of the pleasure ground, or intentionally obstruct or disturb any officer of the Council in the proper execution of his duty, or any person or servant of any person employed by the Council in the proper execution of any work in connection with the laying out or maintenance of the pleasure ground. 19. 20. A person shall not on the pleasure ground drive, chip or pitch a hard golf ball. (i) No person in the pleasure ground shall release any power-driven model aircraft for flight or control the flight of such an aircraft. (ii) No person shall cause any power-driven model aircraft to take off or land in the pleasure ground.

[@Geeksvana]

In my opinion, that would not stand up as including multirotors.

[@flyguy1359]

Council owned land? Isn't that just short for council tax payer owned land....? In other words, you and me.

[@Geeksvana]

Absolutely. That is how I would interpret it. However, legally, they are the 'landowner' and can dictate what happens there. However, in my opinion all bets are off in terms of public access land they control.

[@Dreamkeeeper]

Would somebody be kind enough to take a quick read of Leicester city council “Drone policy” for me .. First time ive found that page, and as a 15 year pilot, A2COFC , and also use parks under Article 16 with a Mavic 3 pro its made me a little wary …Im hoping geeksvana has covered this in his videos, But opinions from other people well up on things. Would be nice as this could only be a complete blanket ban, except if i took off from my own back garden with a mini 3 etc ?

[@Geeksvana]

Hey Dreamkeeeper! Thanks for your comment! The Leicester City policy is just that, a policy. They do not appear to have any valid byelaws or PSPO covering the areas. They have a debatable right to refuse drone flight but it is only a policy. Therefore, if you are asked to stop flying a drone on land they control, it might be advisable, otherwise it would not stop me flying there. In any case it would be a civil matter unless you obstruct in some way.

[@Dreamkeeeper]

@@Geeksvana that was a fast reply !!! Ive never had any issues before and have even flew chatting with our local police search and rescue team who were great .. ( cheers Nick ) so i was a bit taken aback only coming across our local “policy” today .. thanks Sean

[@Geeksvana]

@Dreamkeeeper always try to answer quickly when something could be stopping someone flying. Glad you hear you are having positive interactions locally.

[@Dreamkeeeper]

@@Geeksvana its the irony that we go to the gov.uk page to pay for our flyer id etc and on another gov.uk page there telling you you cant fly .. madness ..

[@The_Modern_Medusa]

Town councils aren't like poliliticians, they are like elected locals trying to help things run well locally. If you want to get rid of a drone restriction in your area, just get you and your friends to write to complain to the council and tell them you want the restriction lifting. Propose a change and justify it. You can probably over turn it. It will have ended up being a rule bc someone got the council to vote on it by making some noise about it.

[@A2Z1Two3]

Scotland has Freedom to Roam ( as long as you don’t cause damage to crops buildings etc. )

[@lolipopsandfancypants7257]

Most national authorities state that no others may make laws governing their airspace. Their airspace is 0 up to a given height. Locals must use operate from or land on areas that they can regulate to make regulations. Other than that... reasonable expectation of privacy or reasonable nuisance or other work arounds approaches must be used to try to restrict you. Obviously, an aircraft is an aircraft whether a space shuttle, plane, ultralight, paraglider, or remotely piloted aircraft and the transport authority can't just have everyone legislating over NASA or United Airlines. But if those aircraft violate into other areas of the law that don't correspond to airspace movements then those are the angles locals need to use. Google satellites and NASA and United Airlines and drones etc. can not be trespassed or prosecuted for legal privacy violation. Are you operating like that or are you up to spying and flying over their garden party that you weren't invited to and power-looping their gazebo.

[@MarkFromEastleigh]

What if you do a hand launch and hand catch rather than using the ground? 😁You're technically not using the council land to launch.

[@Geeksvana]

Hey Mark! I get the tongue in cheek aspect the emoji adds. We do get this suggestion a lot and I answer a few. The operation itself is still on their land, you are stood on their land launching the drone, so it still counts. It is apparently the same for standing on a car or jumping in the air ( I jest).

[@MarkFromEastleigh]

@@Geeksvana I checked Eastleigh borough council website and they have no restrictions on drones (within the laws and rules of operating them of course. Especially as I am in an FRZ due to being very near to Southampton Airport). Hampshire County Council ‘ask you not’ to use their land for drone use.

[@Geeksvana]

@MarkFromEastleigh be aware of the difference between policy and law. If there is no byelaw or PSPO including drones specifically, it is just a policy and therefore a civil request. Personally, I fly in those areas unless approached by someone from the council asking me to stop. To each their own on that decision but my view is that fair use of council open grounds should be permitted for legal activities.

[@standrewpics]

I don’t think they would be able to prosecute if flying on the shore line . ie crown estate land . As I say it’s crown estate not council land . All is needed is common sense. And not to fly a drone in built up areas .

[@Gkofilms]

If it’s council land etc it’s technically public land or is it

[@barrieshepherd7694]

A question I have pondered but as yet have not found an answer to. I have even seen some PSPOs close public rights of way - using some convoluted parts of various other Acts on the basis that there is an alternative route - albeit hundreds of metres longer.

[@Gkofilms]

Had a issue with a park ranger yesterday on this matter, he demanded me to land my drone because I was not allowed to fly over public land, the ranger was a complete barmpot

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@Gkofilms You should have told him it is an offence to distract or interact with a pilot while controlling an aircraft and you would report him if he did not go away. Edit: now know it's not an offence - but it should be!

[@Geeksvana]

Consumer drones are specifically exempt from Article 240 of the Air Navigation Order. This means sadly, we are not protected, and it is not a specific offence to distract or interfere with a drone pilot.

[@barrieshepherd7694]

@@Geeksvana Thanks for correcting me. However it would be my defence that I cannot talk to you while flying as I have to maintain visual contact with the drone and cant handle a distracting conversation at the same time. It would be good to know who really has authority to direct you to land a drone in flight!

[@flyzone7441]

United States Rules are more relaxed than U.Ks. Take off from public land always.

[@geoffankrett7012]

They don't own the air space. If you owned the air space you could refuse to pay for a TV licence. You could give them a bill for their signal passing through your airspace.

[@KKingkwade]

The council does not own any land they only Maintain land For the direction of the people

[@congt9288]

Councils do not own the land - the people do. It is public land