CPU Performance Really Matters in MMOs… | WoW & FFXIV CPU Bottleneck

[@TheSpiritof76]

I would LOVE you forever if you make a follow up video to this one testing newer CPUs especially X3d vs none X3d, maybe once it's out on Zen4?

[@Arathain]

Any chance you could do a 'review' with a 5800X3D vs 37/3800X and 2700X if you own them?

[@dyyylllaannn]

Let me just tell you, 2 years later, the x3d is miles better than either of those other dinosaurs 😂

[@Direwoof]

Ye I has a i7 12700f and even thats not good enough to get consistently high in teh new WOW, i'm gonna save up for teh 7800x3d when that comes out.

[@marcusostlund3649]

Like the video, a good comparison between Zen 2 and Zen 3. There is a "but" tho. I think you should have gone a little bit deeper into the architectural difference. I believe that the main bottleneck you're talking about is the core-to-core latency, which they have really improved on Zen 3 on top of the IPC gains. Improved CCXs with 8 cores instead of 4, that have instant access to the 32mb L3 cache. So instead of 2x4 core CCX modules per CCD, you only have 1x8 core CCX module per CCD. Just a bit more information to the otherwise really good video which proves the importance of a good CPU if you're playing lots of MMOs 😊 For future videos it would be interesting to see if the shown improvments scales with the amount of cores. So maybe a comparison between 5600x, 5800x, 5900x and 5950x? Keep up the good work! 👍

[@sdruba90]

I recently upgraded my 8700k to the 7800x3d and i noticed an increased temperatre of the GPU. Maybe because the GPU is no more bottlenecked? Same fps cap tho.

[@brano_simasek]

Yes :)

[@Texastalon]

I had a 3900x and went to a 5800x. My fps jumped quite a bit even at 3440x1440p with a 6900xt.

[@Momosun2018]

I just got the 5800x 3d. Hoping to see a significant bump.

[@sundayroast8779]

How is the 5800x 3d running? I might get one for wow

[@Texastalon]

@@sundayroast8779 I have the 7700x now. I get god tier performance at 3440x1440p. It was a big jump from the 5800x lol. I never had the 3d just the normal 5800x.

[@Texastalon]

@Sunday Roast but the 5800x in general was a huge jump from the 3900x. Still runs good to this day. The 3d is amazing but I recommend the 7000 series because microcenter was giving free ddr5 ram and 50 off the mobo lmao. Not sure if they're still doing it.

[@sundayroast8779]

@@Texastalon Thank you for your insight m8.

[@adaneshade]

We're finding that CPU cache size is one of the main determining factors for performance in these MMO games.

[@WhackynutsGaming]

Im playing wow wotlk classic with a rtx 3060ti and intel i5-8600k cpu and when i raid 25man my fps drops from 140-180 down to like 70-90fps i also have a 144hz monitor. Im want to find a good intel cpu for my computer so when i raid i want to have that stable 120-144fps. Can u recommend a good cpu for this? Great video by the way!😀

[@JohnSavant]

Review the performance now that the beastly 7800x3d is available. We now have the "MMO CPU", it's a beast in games like WoW, SWTOR, GW2, New World, ESO, etc. KZbinrs mostly focus on single player games, but that's not where the 3d-v cache truly shines.

[@turtlefeet7722]

Thanks, after many years I understand it. My WOW game shows me 15% CPU usage and 20% GPU usage.

[@zwabTheRealOne]

15% seems low in WoW, unless you're talking about overall CPU usage. Overall CPU usage considers usage across every core of your CPU, so if one core is at 100%, bit you have 4 other cores at 0%, the overall usage is 20%, giving the false impression that your CPU is not bottlenecking. WoW cannot leverage all cores particularly well, the game's main thread can only be processed on a single core of your CPU, if that specific core is at 100% then it does not matter that your other cores are at 30%, the one that is at 100% is bottlenecking the game. I recently upgraded from my old 3900x to a 9800x3d, and my FPS is now double or even triple my old FPS in busy scenarios such as during raids, epic BGs and Dornogol during a busy time of day.

[@Trailerofdead]

Woow, you explained that really well. I am aware that the architecture from Zen 2 to Zen 3 is essentially better. 400MHz is not a lot, but also not a little ... but the CPU needs a very strong boost like the 5950X! The Zen 2 with 4.3 / 4Ghz is not good. Quote: I have now recorded what you showed great. I knew that there was a bottleneck due to the old architecture and too little boost. Thanks very much! I just want a mainboard with 7x FULL x16 Lance

[@SuprUsrStan]

So here’s something to think about. I get you want your PCIE lanes but it comes at a very big trade off. Zen 3 threadripper should be coming out soon but it comes out nearly a year after mainstream zen 3. On top of that, by the time zen 3 threadripper comes out, mainstream zen 4 should be out in less than a year. Not to mention mainstream alder lake looks like it will crush zen 3 in single thread / ipc workloads. Do you really need those lanes or is a 5950x or alder lake 8+8 cores enough? These days, I’m finding myself leaning towards going with the top end mainstream than dealing with the drawbacks of HEDT.

[@Trailerofdead]

@@SuprUsrStan A top model of an Alder Lake is clear, great but Lance are very important for full 4x M.2 x16. A CPU must have 64 lances. Then it depends on the mainboard how the Lance are distributed. there is only one mainboard that has 7x full x16 lance.

[@Doxiz]

Hey mate, What is the program that u use to see the usage off the GPU? I am checking if my CPU is bottlenecking my GPU atm.. Thanks for the vid

[@cskillers1]

hi, just want to point out, i checked only WoW parts of this video, and i want to inform you that you never was GPU bound, on both 3960X and 5950X , both were a cpu bottleneck, i'll explain - MSI Afterburner have wrong GPU Load %'s , on your very own video you can see the GPU Utilization %'s on the Task Manager, and Task Manager's GPU Utilization % is the correct one, as you can see on 3960X the gpu is at ~21% and on 5950X the gpu is at ~29% , which means that you are still CPU Bound, obviously, WoW is a single core game mainly with just a tiny multicore boost on dx12 /// update, i checked your FFXIV results just to say to look on your task manager again, as you can see both 3960X and 5950X were GPU Bound in FFXIV but only outside of the city, as task manager shown gpu at 100%, which is good. (in the city gpu was only at about 40% on one of the cpus and about 75 or so on other one, hence your fps was much lower on both of cpus inside the city, aka CPU bottleneck in city) basically always trust task manager's gpu utilization reading, never trust MSI Afterburner's gpu utilization readings. Will say for these who didn't understood yet - WoW is a single core game, with tiny multicore boost on dx12 which isn't that useful, so buy highest single core CPU performance for WoW, Warcraft, StarCraft, League of Legends Also I found a fix for msi afterburner's gpu usage readings but I think it works only for AMD GPUs, so on nvi just use task manager to fix msi afterburner's readings on amd - enable unified gpu usage readings in general tab of msi afterburner

[@soulman902]

This is crazy considering that when WoW launched in 2004 we all had Single Core/Thread processors for most of us. I was running the AMD Athlon 64 which was a Single Core / Single Thread

[@zwabTheRealOne]

They've made some changes over the years to leverage additional cores, but can't escape the fact the very core of the wow engine is 2004 code. Interestingly there was some changes made to the engine when 11.0.5 went live that broke a bunch of stuff, blizzard sheepishly admitted after the fact they were messing with some very old code, the next PTR update for 11.0.7 included new CPU profiling tools, tools which otherwise had not previously been changed by blizzard since original vanilla wow. It seems they ARE trying to work on the legacy code to address deficiencies caused by relying on 2004 code, its just unfortunate that it causes some rather severe bugs that make it to live.

[@asmodeodh]

my i7 10700 uses all of my cores, reaching temps of 81 sometimes peaked 100 celsius. It is so annoying because now i can't play WoW at all. And only uses 30% of my GPU which is a 1070.

[@innocentiuslacrim2290]

It is pretty mad that these MMOs are developed in such a way that they barely benefit from increased core counts.

[@Kilrathal]

you need to remember when they was initially coded having more than 4 cores was unheard of. they're also designed to run on laptops that generally used to only have 2 cores. It's just not financially viable to rewrite the whole game to take advantage of multicores when the game in generally is perfectly fine to play. all be it not the best optimization wise.

[@zwabTheRealOne]

​@@KilrathalIts worse than that, when WoW was originally developed, consumer dual core CPUs were not a thing. While WoW has had many changes made to its engine over the years, including the ability to do some of its workload on additional cores, it still has a singular "main thread" which can only be serviced by a single core on your CPU and thus bottleneck your performance. This is particularly pronounced in areas where a lot of players are present, such as Dornogol at peak time near the bank, raid content or epic BGs (Ashran is a particularly prominent example as unlike AV where both teams tend to run past each other, in Ashran its very common to have 70 players punching each other in the face in a single team fight)

[@AlpiFirat]

Hello thnx for the video. 5 years break I am playing wow agan. Today I joined a normal 25 man raid and it was the worst experience ever. MY fps dropping around 20-25 which is terrible. I have a really old PC. 6700k running on 4.3ghz with 980ti. Do you have any advice?

[@tivtag]

Get a new PC

[@alpylmaz7789]

Thank you for this clear and understandable quick tutorial u are rock my friend ✌🏼

[@ashamancito4630]

Although I am currently not playing, it is quite helpful to know that. Thanks :) Since Intel CPUs, especially 12th gen, has better single core performance than Ryzen, it could be reasonable to assume that it is even better. Exept if there is another architectural reason for good Ryzen performance, like cache size. Have you ever gotten around to testing a higher end Intel CPU?

[@wrong1189]

Its already been proven by various different tech reviewers such as Hardware Unboxed that Intel's 12th gen CPU's are currently king of IPC/Single thread performance =] Even on a game such as BF2042, it leads against the Zen 3 5950x by at least 10fps. Zen 4 is on the horizon and rumors have been speaking of another 20% IPC increase as well as 5ghz all core boost clocks.

[@HolisticHabits88]

Thanks for the info im on a 60hz gtx 1060 6gb fx 8350 16ram 990 am3 rev4 no free or gsync what is best to set in nvidia 3d & ingame for no/low tearing/stutter?

[@hackintosh3899]

Just ordered a 5600x due to this for New World. Hoping it can get me into the freesync range (40 low) in towns and large battles. My 4770k at 4.3 had a good run, but I think it's finally time for a upgrade. Surprised to see such a difference with WoW seeing it's DX 12 though. Still seems like 2-3 cores are what is really leveraged even under low level API's for MMO's, so the 5600x should get close to the bigger Zen's with a OC. The New World page says it's gonna be DX 12, but it was only DX 11 in the preview and they planned to ship it at that time. I imagine DX 12 will really only help certain AMD GPU's in it that have bad DX 11 overhead. Anyways, thanks for the vid. Was a nice find when wondering how the new Zen would do at MMO's and makes me feel better about grabbing a Gen 4 SSD (figured it would be nice with Win 11 Direct Storage) over more expensive cooling and the 5800x. I just game and don't need anything for production. Now time to watch videos on how to overclock this thing. Manual, PBO, undervolting by 25 or 30 in PBO with limit off and a 50 raised clock. Seem to be a lot of methods with these zen 3's and it will be fun to tinker with. Depending on cooling it looks like PBO might be the best for MMO's cus it raises a single core so high, while the manuals and undervolts might help in a game like Shadow of the Tomb Raider and production which really leverages cores.

[@Voyex]

Did you get your 5600x already if so how's the New World performance going?

[@hackintosh3899]

@@Voyex Lowest FPS I have seen is high 40's in packed towns. Open world is high 50's to mid 70's. I'm also GPU bottlenecked at 1440p there though. VEGA 56 at 1440p. All settings to low except textures. Would get a new GPU but there are none to buy. This game looks bad downscaled for some reason to. Text is a blurry mess etc, so 1080p is not an option on my 1440p display.

[@ashramz19]

So does core counter matter? Or just speed for an MMO like Warcraft?

[@micketkeong]

I played FF XIV since 2.0 with i7 3930K and RTX 3070, if I buy a 5900X, will I get huge improve performance?

[@hakoshae]

I have ~70 fps in Limsa anyway, even with 5900x+3080, so..😂

[@foulplay99]

This is a great explanation, thankyou!

[@Witiok1992]

The same issue is with GW2. Old games, old engines can't utilize all computational power of modern CPU. All depends on single core performance of you CPU.

[@DDOAgaming]

I have a r5 5600 and rx 6600. I think my gpu is bottlenecks. Thoughts? Also 16gb ddr4 3200 cl16 ram. Do I need to upgrade to a 6700xt? In raids on 8 setting in wow I drop to 40 fps. I want it smoother 😊

[@DDOAgaming]

Make sure your ram is running 3200 or 3000mhz. I agree about gpu bottleneck as well.. I run a r5 5600 32gb 3200mhz ram with a 665xt and I play wow around 65 or so on almost max graphics. No ray Tracing

[@johnrichards5234]

I have the similar specs r5 5600 32gb ddr 3200 cl 16 and 6700xt i play at graphic 10 in M+/main city Oribos its ok usually 120-144 fps, but in open world like ardenwald or bastion I get rolled to 55-70 fps. I dont have same enabled due to legacy OS haven't swapped but i just ordered a 5800x3d so we'll see how that changes things.

[@WarAnWaar]

Hi! I have 7800x3d and 7900xt and I get spikes frequency 3400mhz -4600mhz ( can't get 5000mhz in games). Why I can't get stable frequency?

[@Voyex]

Hmm wondering if I should upgrade to a 5800x currently using a 3600 with a 3070

[@OGPND]

Awesome vid, my dude. Thanks

[@minakatahizuru]

Can you do update for this?

[@GKSchattenjaeger]

Nice video, gave me some food for thought in thinking about cpu/gpu bit in heavily cpu bound games. Thanks.

[@axzcore2917]

Anyone here tried playing perfect world online? What cpu is best for that game? During territorial wars even r9 5950x gets very low fps.

[@NEBUL4]

10:58 GPU bound ???? its says GPU at 28% WTF

[@CalinEnduro]

Please make a test with a 5600g cpu or similar with integrated gpu and a very good dual channel ram setup

[@davidlee3203]

im running a 3700x with i 2060 super u made me think about upgrading my cpu what do u think should i upgrade my gpu first or cpu. also my cpu boosts to 4.55 ghz all core playing wow constant and i get around 90 to 100 fps in oribos with a 1080p monitor native running 1080p in game also. do u think im gpu bound or cpu?

[@wrong1189]

It all depends on the location in said games. In big player count areas, you are still going to be CPU limited hands down. In areas with less players, you will be GPU bound. If you mainly play MMO's and other CPU limited games more often than not, i HIGHLY recommend upgrading your CPU as someone that also plays FFXIV and other mmo's heavily and has upgraded from a 3950x to a 5900x currently. Plan on getting the 5800X3D but holding out to see if rumors are true and we get a 5900X3D. Just for more info, what this video doesn't show is the increase in the score on the FFXIV EW benchmark. I went from 20.5k at 1440p with my 3080 TI to 26k just from switching to the 5900x. All because the fps in those CPU limited areas are so much higher and can hold the average fps higher for so much longer. Download and install/setup MSI Afterburner to show your GPU usage. If its below 95% in an area alot of the time, you are CPU limited. That simple.

[@mmlee6399]

What’s your WoW toons name Stan?

[@alexeymalafeev6167]

have you tested this with dragonflight?

[@TheGreatestLewis]

Nice video, i should really buy a 5800x, I currently have 1700x at 3.9ghz

[@OfficialUknow]

Yup would be a great upgrade

[@dianaalyssa8726]

Rewatched, Have 9600k have played both WoW Shadowlands and FF14 1440p. Paired with 3060. Am thinking to do the CPU for later 7000 series maybe once 3d chips hit(only Alder/Raptor if cheap, no upgrade path there). Have 32 gb DDR4 so also curious about 5800X3D etc but I will probably end up on a new platform. For WoW, Am fine with m+ and open world just in raid am renderscaling cause it's not enough for high refresh on defaults, with custom quality 7 otherwise. I had found 14 harder to drive for 1440p, been over a year since I played but on higher settings was having issues grinding gear. WoW with fated raids it's more to render (just like how Nzoth corruptions patch was) a lot of people in raid complained when fps loss occurred which I did feel some at that part too when the affix went off.

[@SuprUsrStan]

I’d spend the money to upgrade the 3060 and grab a 5800x3D. If you look at the new intel benchmarks, the 5800x3D is still faster than a 13900k. Edit: on yohre on a old 9600k. Yeah might as well go AM5.

[@blahblub4807]

The Games are not utilizing multicore cpu's well enough

[@ksouvenir5561]

I swap a Ryzen 3600 for a 5800x3D = over 200% better 1% low on Starcraft 4x4 battle map 🕹 from unplayble experience to epic smoothness 🤯. The only issue is the 5800x3D shutdown everytime while doing Memtest86 stress test while the Ryzen 3600 has zero issue, AM4 platform longevity advertising is a scam 🤦‍♂.

[@Ray-yn4ty]

amd ryzen X3d CPUs are great for MMO games for example upgrading from 3700x to 5800X3d give me almost The double FPS in dota 2

[@risingwind7599]

is the 5900x just as good as the 5950x for mmorpgs?

[@SuprUsrStan]

Yeah.

[@dabeatt]

thanks a lot for this video, i were losing my mind thinking about my cpu being broken or something, i have an i5 8600k and a rtx 3060 ti, i play mmos and my cpu is bottlenecking a lot when im inside populated cities, the usage goes to 100% and it drops to 30-40 fps.... im thinking about upgrading cpu to an i5 11600 or a i7 11700, what would you recommend? thanks, like and subscribed!!!

[@SuprUsrStan]

Sit tight. Alder Lake is coming out next month and should be a beast of a IPC performer. It should do well in games. I'm contemplating building a gaming system around that platform for myself actually...

[@jackboudreaux5883]

I learned a alot when using afterburner and wow, when i was looking at average usage across all cores i would see only 50% usage and graphics card farting around at even less usage. When i expanded all cores and noticed wow was hitting 1 core at 100% but other cores were 10-40% i finally understood how wow works, wow does not spread the work evenly, not even close. So yes the cpu is the bottleneck but you can 100 more cores and it will still be the bottleneck because it hits one core hard and the rest are playing solitare.

[@MrWubly]

What a difference !!! You literally did a 100% increase in ff

[@Yuurrr]

I would rather see the difference between an 5600x, 5800x and 5900x actually

[@SweatyFeetGirl]

no difference. mmorpg are mostly single threaded

[@etnieslolz]

old setup i7-8700k @ strix 1060oc6gb @ 32gb ram 3200mhz: 40-110fps new setup i7-8700k @ 4070 12gb @ 32gb 3200mhz: 45-144fps :D

[@duckilythelovely3040]

Funny enough, the 6800xt gets way more fps than even the 3090 does in world of warcraft LOL! there is a video showing that, WoW loves AMD cards. we're talking over 40+fps.

[@cskillers1]

i have checked the video you talk about, the guy got exact same fps with 2080 ti as with 3090(~155), and 6800xt had ~166 , this means he was cpu bottlenecked in all 3 of these tests, it's not surprising since the game is mainly single core game , i then found a guy in that video's comment section which said that "sadly these results are fake" , and then he sent another video, from Tech Yes City , which probably still was cpu bottlenecked with rtx OFF even at 4K (hence rtx 3070 and 6800XT had about the same fps 180 and 190), but with ray tracing turned ON he finally became gpu bottlenecked and obviously rtx 3080 was way ahead of the rx 6800xt since it just have more ray units while rtx 3070 was right behind the 6800 xt because despite having better rays capabilities it's a weaker card overall. in short, it's super hard to get gpu bottlenecked in a WoW , since the game utilizes mainly just 1 CPU Core , so a guy with GTX 1060 and an i9 12900K may actually get higher fps in WoW at 1080p maxed out but without ray tracing on, than a guy with I7 4790K(or maybe even 7700K) and RTX 3090/RX 6900XT , simply because CPU's single core performance matters the most in it. , even in this video you can see that the uploader had 21% and 29% gpu usage with rtx 3090 (task manager) , msi afterburner's gpu utilization readings are always wrong. /// update, found a fix for msi afterburner's gpu usage readings to fix msi afterburner's readings - enable unified gpu usage readings in general tab of msi afterburner

[@duckilythelovely3040]

@@cskillers1 Oh wow will use your GPU to the max. You need but turn on ray tracing and even a 3090 ti will melt.

[@cskillers1]

@@duckilythelovely3040 but it doesn't, tech yes city did a test with max settings & ray tracing on High at a whooping 4K resolution, rtx 3080 reached 140 fps and rtx 3090 reached 157 which may or may not be CPU bottleneck already since WoW hits limit of fps at around 130~190 depends on the CPU and area, maximum possible fps at maxed out 4k is way way higher than melting, melting is like 30fps at 1080p

[@duckilythelovely3040]

@@cskillers1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYfTl4qfnbmJg5I In any zone, you'll see it's at 99%. This is the problem with the world. So many know so little thinking they know it all.

[@jameswatson6650]

This is why intel is better for MMO's. Core frequency for days.

[@SweatyFeetGirl]

ipc is what matters, not frequency. a 2ghz 7600x will beat the snot out of a 5ghz fx 9590 just as a reference

[@theexile4694]

Hahaha this is just proof that the CPU is being heavily under utilized. Hahaha only 5-6 threads and only 4% usage? Hahahaha. That's a game issue, not a CPU issue.

[@samogonbrother]

Bro thinks he Lelouch with those goofy laughs

[@TGoO14]

You're a weird little critter

[@60vik]

@@samogonbrother OMG I laughed so hard 🤣🤣

[@dyyylllaannn]

What game uses multithreading?

[@Popikaify]

Is ryzen 7 7800x3d and rtx 4070 good choise or i should go with i7 13700k instead for wow?

[@FNXDCT]

i went from a 3700x to a 5800x3d for wow and even tho i thought it was going to be kinda a too little uplift, i noticed almost the double of fps in raids. amd really made massive improvements. Tho, it wasn't Zen 2 that was bad but more the engines that were bad.

[@hirokjyotideka5571]

My system is run by i5 7500. Do not attempt Bozja with this, especially CEs. All AOEs goes out in split seconds and your character freezes. Hunt trains are a pain too. All I learnt was MMOs need a beefy CPUs to handle big crowds.

[@NoName-nn8lj]

Update pls

[@BIGAPEGANGLEADER]

5600x will match or outperform the other ryzen cpus. Other games with high single core focus all confirm this, no reason to believe it would be different here. Easy to overclock a 5600x as well due to lower tdp/less unnecessary threads for gaming. Save your money folks.

[@lantern214]

Nah, no thanks. Many of us like to go high end and use our rig for many years. Last time I fell for the "That's overkill" bs, I got burned. This time I think i'll spoil myself. :)

[@BIGAPEGANGLEADER]

@@lantern214 you're free to waste your money however you want.

[@laggmonstret]

@@lantern214 I just got the 5600X for my RTX 3080 planning on replacing it in 2025, how much longer then that will you gonna last on a 5900X? I mean if I buy a RTX 5090 or a 8900 XT or whatever they're gonna be called then I still would like the latest generation CPU to pair it with.

[@lantern214]

@@laggmonstret I play in 1440p, so the cpu will last a long time. Everyone thinks they need to upgrade every 2 to 4 years, when that rings true for a gpu. A good cpu can go much longer, pending on the applications being used.

[@laggmonstret]

@@lantern214 Yes of course, but like with my Intel i7-7700k that I've been using since 2017 there was a real performance jump to go to a AMD R5 5600X. But it may be a faster pace of development now when the competition is back for CPU's. And also add to the fact that this is the last refresh of this gen from AMD and DDR5 is in the pipeline so we may se huge improvement in performance gain within 2 years already.

[@Chillypuwn]

This is great. Not many bench WoW. Finally I find one who does.

[@glaszn]

u guys are sure cause I got 11 years old CPU namely 1100xt and I play wow on 4k with breeze ... not to mention that I browse internet on firefox while game is running in the back