Crackpot theory - Shadow of the Erdtree Speculations!

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Creator: UnusualBox
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[@albertjames1468]

I really like the idea of Marika being the final product of the living jar-sainthood experiment that then turns on the hornsent. However I think that Raddagon is more like St. Trina, another aspect of Marika herself that can be split off similar to how Miquella separated from St. Trina.

[@UnusualPot]

I was of this mind set for along time myself, but I just can't ignore his more mundane history as an individual. It's not like St. Trina had hobbies and a life outside her myth. Where Radagon seems to have been a seamster like Boc a common folk job, along with inheritances and personal prejudices. So far I can't find evidences for similar traits in St. Trina

[@notthis9586]

That last one about being fused in a jar is so brutal I could see it being true. Though the strong implication that Merica waited ages (At least until Radahn studies gravity magic) before sending Messmer to genocide the Hornsent rules it out for me. Seems like they'd be the first stop on the golden order campaign rather than an after thought and convenient way to distance Messmer from the family if they pulled something that horrific on her personally

[@UnusualPot]

Why would that need to be the case? I think there is some confusion in the reading that the Land of Shadow Messmer genocide War was after it was vailed away. The fact we see so many later characters in the timeline their make me think the two events are apart. Godwyn's knights being there for example.

[@DonutSwordsman]

Insta subbed at the title. People are too scared to go beyond an item description!

[@UnusualPot]

Thank you, Friend! I think there is a place for looking at move sets and fighting style to unlock some key lore details. The blind swordsman and Blue Fairy have had space rent free in my head, after seeing the land of Shadows.

[@UnusualPot]

The Comments and feedback so far has be amazing, already at 100 subs. Thank you all so much!

[@despacitospider-f8t]

I would have to point out that the hand in the cocoon has miquella's ring, which probably means that the body is miquella's. Bonfire VN has a nice showcasing the younger miquella in the ending cutscene, and in one of his shots you can see the ring on younger miquella's hand.

[@UnusualPot]

It's interesting as him having the ring at the end conflicts with it being on the body in many ways, as if he is the body in the cocoon he discarded his body twice and kept the ring somehow. Unless it was kind of a wedding ring they both had. It's really hard to say one way or another.

[@despacitospider-f8t]

@@UnusualPot Sorry im late about this, I was likely not clear, the ring is not on miquella during the radahn fight, but is on miquella during the cutscene of when he is talking about the vow, here is the link to the Bonfire VN video kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZSuppmjbclpoaM and 2:32 is the time when you can see the ring on young miquella, but not adult miquella.

[@despacitospider-f8t]

Nice video though!

[@biovalve1410]

Didn't the demigods NAB the great runes after Marika shattered the elden ring? "Soon, Marika's offspring, demigods all, claimed the shards of the Elden Ring. The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering." Ofc Mesmmer was sent to the shadowlands BEFORE the shattering so theres no reason why he'd need one.

[@UnusualPot]

It's a very interesting question, So it depends how you read the line. "Soon, Marika's offspring, demigods all, claimed the shards of the Elden Ring." and then "The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering." So they had shards before the Shattering?

[@biovalve1410]

@@UnusualPot the shattering is the war waged between the demigods, "THE shattering" never actually refers to the event of Marika shattering the ring. So its saying marika shattered the ring->demigods claimed great runes->tainted by the strength they initiated the shattering (aka the war between the demigods)

[@dainironhill306]

Sick video bro

[@garbageprince]

Didn't the demigod kids get their great runes after the shattering? And I think Mesmer was sealed away before that took place

[@UnusualPot]

We assume that, I'm on the side of that being true, but take this line. "Soon, Marika's offspring, demigods all, claimed the shards of the Elden Ring. The mad taint of their newfound strength triggered the Shattering." So they had shards before the Shattering to trigger it, kind of saying had Ranni not received this power she wouldn't had to discard it with her empyrean status? I'm still very unsure myself, but everyone just kind of say yep that's the case with evidences being so so, it's more implied to be true.

[@paulcashion8049]

Marika was a priestess to a snake kami or snake god that the hornsent worshipped. Tons of clues to this. Before her coup she was impregrnated by the serpant giving us melina and messmer. They are her first children. They are demi gods just not of the greater will but of the serpant god.

[@zaphael7238]

I believe this to be the case as well, the snake skin at Shaman village, the snake in Volcano Manner is named after a women in folklore whom married a snake prince unknowingly and bore him children, when she found out his nature she took the children and fled. She cast a spell to turn herself and her children into trees to escape his pursuit. Like the women/trees in the Divine Tower. I think people are so focused on the revelation of Marika/Radagon that they do not take into account when or how Marika and Radagon came to be. Marika is the god but not Radagon yet, implying that the melding together with her is incomplete as he is not yet the one whom embodies/controls the Elden Ring. At least that is my interpretation.

[@paulcashion8049]

@@zaphael7238 I think as more people look into it we'll be vindicated man

[@UnusualPot]

I defiantly think the Serpent is connected to Marika early on with her life, maybe even in a Adam and Eve kind of way. Impregnated might be a bit to literal for me, but given her similarities to loki you never know. As we are talking about a god connected to the Void and abyss it may be the case that the serpent is like the devil and was creating when the greater will come into being. Her cutting ties with this Serpent God could have lead to the Godskin and Gloam eyed queen creation, as they are notable absent in the lands of shadow.

[@paulcashion8049]

@@UnusualPot my thoughts on the godskin has to do with both messmer and melina and how their curses may have been handled. I think melina might very well have been the first born and had been named as a successor. We may be being decieved in messmers chamber. That might well be melina. It's a babe and there are no snakes popping out of him. I think marika tried to treat melina well, to teach her with words, to subdue the evil within her. It didn't work. I think there is a reason messmer eye was replaced and it wasn't just out of the blue. Those siblings disagreed and had a complicated history due to their heritage. I think melina started the godskin cult and went against her mother. Maliketh defeated her and either through messmer or perhaps through self sacrifice in an attempt to burn the erdtree we find her burned and bodiless. I think melina is really old. Just as old as messmer and from that old lineage. Neither of them inherited great runes. They are not from the greater will and never had its blessing or grace. They are much older than the shattering. To go into a bit more detail I believe the hornsent built belurat and connected it to the pre existing enir-ilim. I really dont think they build it nor true understood the scadutree or the gate or how any of the tech really worked. They pulled through a fell god and worshipped it. This is referred to in a talisman. I think enir-ilim was part of Ruah originally. I dont think a single jar experiment ever worked because the hornsent don't really know what they're doing. I do not believe marika to be a jar Saint. The 'shamans' I hate that new descripter and find it deceiving, but the numen are older, look at the goddess worship in ruah, look at the great tree, look at enir-ilim. This was originally a numan civilization. The shamans and what not are the decendents of that culture. They don't know their history well and neither do the hornsent. It's a classic grrm world. A big onion with so many layers. I have no experience in writing scripts but I think all the evidence is in game for these ideas.

[@UnusualPot]

@@paulcashion8049 I think I agree with a lot of that as a chain of events you laid out. To me Melina being the Gloam eyed queen is where I'm at. I think the Waring before the Shattering where "everything was in opposition to the Erdtree" was before the Land of Shadow was vailed and Messmer fighting was part of it. only after victor was at hand and the Age of gold was on the horizon did Queen Marika vail the land and hid the post war culling. To your point when Messmer was abandon by Marika (though I do think this was demanded of her by the Greater Will at this point as I think it had control over a lot of her actions, this is why she made a lot of secret plans), This could have been where the Gloam eyed queen/Melina started her own rise to power, the finger then gave her Maliketh to carry out a deed she couldn't do her self. This works with the idea that Marika's kids are born with great runes as the Gloam eyed queen/Melina may have been born with the Great Rune of Destined Death. It is also true from the architecture replacement and newer reliefs in Enir-Ilim, that indicate a few cultures took over the location, like with the Great Towers that have touches and bust added on top, and they share architecture with Enir-Ilim base too. Not sure Numan build Enir-Ilim and the Great Towers myself, but most likely used it like the Hornsent at some point. I Believe the Shamans/Miko are Numan, but not all Numan are Shamans/Miko if you understand me, I think Shamans/Miko have abilities, rare even for Numan. To me there are more detail that allowed Marika to become a "jar Saint" for lack of a better word, other then random chance. As you say the Hornsent seem pretty clueless about what they were doing, but some elements might have been right just more was needed, like the help of an outer god. Defiantly more crackpot thought that I had thought. 😅 Really good Ideas mate!