Where is Godwyn in Elden Ring's DLC?

#eldenring #gaming #shadowoftheerdtree
Pure and radiant...my head cannon shrives clean the hearts of men...
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Eclipse Video: • Why Does Miquella Want...

[@agtjake]

Pure and radiant...my head cannon shrives clean the hearts of men...

[@iminyourwalls-gj3uc]

There is nothing more terrifiying

[@rod653]

you might be unto something miquella has godwyns eyes...

[@SimonKuba]

@agtjake I have a question to your headcannon. What about Godwyn's body in the Deeproot depths? Does he have two bodies? And why is there no deathblight present in the mohgwyn's palace?

[@TazKidNoah]

i think Godwyn was experiment for Miquella to see if he could revive any soul with any body & until he arrived to Scadutree to see the only path but that's my theory

[@lonelySires]

It is time to let godwyn go, his soul is gone. Fia was his last chance, and we could not defend her, and we gave her killer his armor and weapon. So it is our fault.

[@JoseViktor4099]

Maybe the real Godwin were the friends we made along the way

[@patches2221]

You mean all those people I murdered?

[@baraldogrant]

😂

[@fitmcdeezy8778]

Lmao well said 😂I😂

[@Daniel-bc5yq]

And the SotE's best comment goes to...

[@erikreber3695]

I've never seen this one before... Such an original and interesting comment!

[@Yazzieeee]

Godwyn is honestly one of the most influential characters in the series. So many people take after him and it’s not just one group, but a plethora of individuals. And that is why he had to be the first to perish. He’s from the lineage of “the oppressors” so to speak, but even his enemies (mostly now turned allies) speak so highly of him. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where Miquella got inspired to “enchant” everyone. Only difference being that the love people had for Godwyn was actually real.

[@XxBearZeusxX]

Miquellas love is real, however that too, like a piece of flesh did get cast away.

[@Dustpuma1]

Oppressors is a bad word to use you can apply it to anyone. but Yes he was basically Jesus of Elden ring

[@Yazzieeee]

@@Dustpuma1 I agree that’s not the best word, but tbh nearly everyone in Elden Ring (fromsoft in general) is not a “good person” unless they’re minor NPCs or people who just die early on.

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

I think Godwyn was a positive influence on young Miquella. In the Haligtree Statue, We see him sheltering the Twins, with Miquella gazing admirably up at him (differs from every other statue where the twins embrace) Strong and peaceful, Godwyn was the best. I’m so sad over what happened, and thr character assassination of Miquella.

[@vitaliyred622]

What if Ranni got charmed by Miquella to kill him, because unlike Miquella Godwyn’s love was not due to his magical charm but natural.

[@sharptongue2972]

Godwyn's story will be revealed in the prequel, Young Ring.

[@sasaki999pro]

_Young Sheldon Ring_

[@Vini-zv3lr]

Youngin Ring

[@Pyovali]

Young Triangle

[@0malleyAlleyc4t]

21 and Older Ring

[@flaflu180399]

@@sasaki999pro *Young Ring, Sheldon of the Erdtreeory*

[@Nicole_whatsgood]

Miquella going insane trying and failing to resurrect Godwyn could’ve been great. Imagine the last boss is Miquella being like “Lord Brother… you’re finally home” and it’s just a giant writhing death root body you have to kill

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

That would have been way cooler. Godwyn’s curse corrupting Miquella despite his best intentions would be so tragic and could explain why there’s no new ending unlock. Instead we got radahn shoehorned in despite it not making any sense or having any set up, sote crapped the bed rigght before the finish line.

[@sfcSpidey]

And then it contaminates miquella becoming like an angel of death and the sky turning black could have been really good stuff I like the radahn fight I just don’t like the story

[@Grimsly3736]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@CreativeUsernameEhwell I mean the set up was the whole fight that happened in Calied no? But I do agree with you that it was still kinda shoehorned in but there was some set up but not enough especially when Godwyn had more

[@MarkJones13453]

That would have been so badass

[@flying-magpie]

It would have been so badass! We could have gotten "Godwyn the Soulless" but noo.....

[@royalsuperdrip596]

I feel like the dlc leaves room for a part 2

[@Grooviebones]

According to Miyazaki, don't hold out hope. Its the only planned dlc

[@kingk.d.m4620]

Definitely since the main game takes place in the lands between and the dlc is in the shadow realm there has to be another to make the lands between actually in between. There’s always the possibility of Marika having more children out there and Godwyn can play a role as well. There’s definitely more content for a dlc or elden ring 2

[@MrDrProfesserAlex]

@@Grooviebones he also said it was the size of limgrave. You’re probably right but I want to keep huffing the copium

[@Diamond_2403]

@@kingk.d.m4620 There's a whole Land of Reeds with samurai and stuff that's constantly in Civil War. Maybe they can come up with something there?

[@tz5116]

@@Diamond_2403 Bro, I get you but don't. If you follow that path, you could start will all FromSoftware titles.

[@ShadowthePast]

An important detail to note, the ring on Miquella's finger in the final cutscene appears to be the same ring on the withered arm (although it's slightly hard to tell without looking closely)

[@shaunv3673]

I noticed that too myself. That ring sure got a lot bigger.

[@golden_shart]

It's a wedding band-placed on the ring finger of the right hand.

[@timothyb1836]

It's a signet ring, meaning it bares his family's sigil ergo the exact same one Godwin would have. However that means that Godwin had a lord consort......

[@KitsuneShapeShifter]

@@timothyb1836 Must've been a Dragon lol

[@BlueOga]

Fuse Mohg and Godwyn? Like.. Some kind of a Mohgwyn, huh?

[@tuvergalarga6144]

Wait you cooked

[@chopsandtoots]

I do wonder if they made some last minute changes because idk man, this ending felt kinda off

[@Glaine-nd8pk]

@@chopsandtoots Graphically, consort Radahn looks off to me, so I think it was a "last minute" change.

[@chopsandtoots]

@@Glaine-nd8pk I'm a proud hater of how this DLC went lore wise lol. I'm almost annoyed that people are complaining about the difficulty when there's actual criticism to be had imo

[@cherybum]

this is like saying Melina and Malenia are supposed to be one cuz their names are similar. Do you know why their names are similar tho? Cuz they are siblings just like Godwyn and Mohgwyn

[@hypnoticskull6342]

Godwyn during Shadow of the Erdtree "Guess I'll do nothing."

[@lovelylemonfactory]

Being a soulless husk has that effect on a lad.

[@abyssalchaos556]

@@lovelylemonfactoryon Marika lol, people don’t realize that Godwyn’s soul is destroyed, you can’t be brought back from it.

[@hekam]

@@abyssalchaos556 All the more reason for Miquella to ascend to Godhood to bring it back anyhow were his mother failed.

[@RR-oz9my]

@@abyssalchaos556 they can create literally different ideas to bring him back, its not a big deal, its a fantasy anyway

[@EmilKlingberg]

​@RR-oz9my The gods here are not omnipotent, and the rules of death seem pretty well defined. Marika went mad after his death, I'm sure if she had the power to she would have saved him.

[@milkshakescigarettes7513]

There's no discussion to be had here: Patches is Miyazaki.

[@sentinellord5024]

I’m gonna start deathblighting people in PvP just for godwyn not being in the dlc

[@blackmane1999]

😂

[@JustAFatherlyNerd]

Lmmfao

[@animeproblem1070]

Godwyn being gone makes sense to me story wise he represents the literal golden child the perfect ideal of the golden order and with his death the dark depravity of the order is revealed resurrecting him would undo the thematic nature of that story

[@mikeekim8567]

actually insightful comment for someone with an anime profile picture

[@eldenanchor8179]

While I agree with your thoughts about Godwyn, I think resurrecting him and using his soul/body would further emphasise the depths of depravity the current order has sunk to. Turning the prodigal son against the order itself.

[@hekam]

It would make sense if Miquella did all this to bring him back because of that. Radahn does not make any sense.

[@animeproblem1070]

@@eldenanchor8179 yet that would go against the indisidious nature the game is trying to show you that Miquella has instead it would almost be just making him directly and unquestionably irredeemable where the more you look at it the point is that his darkness is hidden between the layers never directly shown just implied

[@cool2314]

@eldenanchor8179 miquella is not part of the Golden order and abandoned it so him resurrecting godwyn would not really work

[@maize3201]

Given everything we learn about Marika in this dlc, I actually like the fact that Godwyn stays “dead” because it adds more narrative weight to his death. Even after ascending to Godhood, Marika was still powerless to escape the plights of her past life. 2 of her kids were born with the exact same features of the people who she despised, and her one perfect golden son was killed despite her removing the rune of death in order to avoid anyone close to her dying ever again. It makes Marika feel a lot more human and tragic now (even if she is still a horrible person overall).

[@chopsandtoots]

Well even if they found a way to resurrect him, Marika isn't really around to see that anyway thanks to us lol

[@omgroflgamer2010]

We know from trailers and item descriptions that the shattering, aswell as the shattering wars, happened soon after Godwyn's death. I think Godwyn's death in soul only clashed with the rules Marika set upon her new world. That is why Godwyn's body is spreading uncontrollably, like a bug causing errors in a program. Her world cannot compute how and why this happened, as Death was not meant to be. Especially in soul only. It's as you said. Marika, avoiding the loss of her loved ones, removed the rune of death from the elden ring. But when, despite all she had done to achieve this, becoming a god and changing the rules of the world, her golden son died, she shattered the elden ring. Clearly the world wasn't perfect. She was in the process of flipping the table, breaking it all, when Radagon and the Greater WIll restrained her. So she set up her children to duke it out, collect all runes and take her place. Who ever couldn't achieve that goal would become a stepping stone for the one who does

[@riotguards]

It feels weird in that FROM felt as if Radahn would be considered special like Gwyn or king vendrick is in dark souls, like the end game boss was revealed to be Radahn instead of the more impactful than the literal focal point of all the events in the game. Like the fight could start with a Godwyns perfected body and he has radagans but perfected combos but the second phase has his body corrupted by destined death, the rune springing out of his back and a panicking Miquella coming out panicking trying to calm him down before accidentally getting absorbed akira style into Godwyn who transforms into a full fledge lord of death It would be far more tragic in that all the sacrfices he made to revive his beloved brother, all the atrocities all amounted to nothing but his own death. But sadly we just get Radahn 2.0 and then phase 2 radahn 2.5 epilepsy mode

[@Foatizenknechtl]

@@chopsandtoots actually not true

[@demsterclippy4252]

I understand godwyn staying dead... i still wish i saw the damn thing animate and fight me though. I want to see more of the prince of death. And we didn't get it.

[@AlexBaldivino96]

But if Godwyn is inside the cocoon, then what is that malformed, withered corpse within the place where we fought Lichdragon Fortissax? Doing the Age of Duskborn questline all the more confirms that “thing” is Godwyn himself.

[@Nomadtheus]

@@AlexBaldivino96 it could be a fully grown surrogate corpse.

[@Just_B0red]

Maybe they are failed Godwyn expetiments? Like Fia took warmth of champions and gave it so something idk, in order to bring Godwyn back, but each of those "Fish monsters" is a failed attempt to bring him back to life? I still think that Corpse being guarded by Fortissax is Gowdyn, or at least the OG body, but who knows.

[@ahkosorsomesaykosby9999]

​@@fluffycarrot42the cocoon contains Miquella unless the site of grace name, leda, the button prompts, Malenia bossroom, and the Miquella simos are all lying/misleading us

[@Calvin_Coolage]

@@fluffycarrot42 But that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Godwyn's soul is gone.

[@HolyAbomination]

@@Calvin_Coolage but where do dead souls go?

[@mastercraython3372]

The site of grace in Mogh's arena is called "Cocoon of the Empyrean", and Miquella is an Empyrean while Godwyn was not. In souls games we can only trust in items descripcions and, in this case, locations or grace names. Still is fascinating that Mogh's palace is called Moghwyn...

[@TheScrootch]

Godwyn actually means "God friend", so I guess you could speculate that Mohgwyn means something like "Friends of Mohg". Like the loyalists in his dynasty-to-be

[@shnorkeythefourth4572]

Moghwyn might be his full name, maybe he shortened it to Mogh to separate himself from his family more

[@mastercraython3372]

@@TheScrootch I wasn't aware of this! It actually makes sense. I was thinking that Gwyn, like the Lord of Sunlight of Dark Souls 1, means holy, white, fair, bright and pure. All of words that can fit Miquella description, or Godwyn himself

[@mastercraython3372]

@@shnorkeythefourth4572 You think? I mean, there are no items decriptions or dialogue...but i guess it can be true

[@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274]

As stated above moghwyn is likely his full name and mogh the name he goes by, as all other beings in the marika family tree have 2 syllable names and fromsoft loves patterns in names like -> rykard ranni raduan / Godfrey Godwyn godefrey (Margot and mogh are omens so don’t get proper names cause marika)

[@dznnah]

I heard someone say that Godwyn is like black mold. You have a dark place that's kinda humid and before you know it... there's a godwyn growing in the the corner.

[@gamersthumb3723]

@@dznnah godwyn growing in the corner had me choke 😂😆😂

[@pstrongman602]

Explains why that one patch in my shower looked familiar

[@cool2314]

Lol if shadow of the erdtree had a revelation that our tarnished character was a Reborn godwyn running around that would be hilarious.

[@zarenboug5410]

I wouldn't mind that at all tbh. Recently, I watched a lore video that mentioned something interesting. When the cutscene plays where the Tarnished first receives their grace, you can actually hear the sounds of a walking mausoleum in the background. So might be plausible in a perfect world.

[@lovelylemonfactory]

That's actually more likely than the theory in this video.

[@jacquesbonhomme8198]

I’m adopting this headcanon, thanks

[@CM-hx5dp]

@@zarenboug5410 the tarnished is probably not godwyn (where did our body come from if we're godwyn?) but they might be one of the other soulless demigods

[@cool2314]

@@CM-hx5dp well you can transfer souls into new bodies and the game does not say it was destroyed only that it died so its possible some could recover godwyns soul and put it in a new body

[@quis9795]

Bro should've just used rick, God's soldier.

[@azureascendant994]

Or Patches.

[@_oracle]

Unironically it would've been better as a final boss, rather than the bs shit show epileptic modded ass goofy second phase radhan we got

[@bleeem]

@@_oracle pure salt

[@zeko3421]

@@_oracle lol

[@Midnitethorn]

Agreed. Miquella must have missed the ghost pointing to the tutorial area

[@spencerharmon681]

With Torent being afraid of the Abyssal Woods, I get the feeling that a spiritual death has no return where, with a physical death, the spirit can live on.

[@Alex-bw6yd]

Well we know this is true from what I hear we’ve seen. Godwyn can’t be resurrected and his body festers and rots because it continues to live without a soul, stagnating. And both Ranni and Radahn (who experienced physical death) were able to have their souls placed into a vessel and remain themselves.

[@rodrigoa.m3566]

@@spencerharmon681 Isn't Torrent afraid of the Abyssal Woods as a bit of foreshadowing for the presence of Frenzied Flame, from Midra?

[@omgroflgamer2010]

@@rodrigoa.m3566 makes sense. Especially as all that remains in the lord of frenzied flame ending is a crumbling, destroyed ring (we use to summon Torrent) that Melina picks up. You can hear Torrent cry out in pain. The frenzied flame burns all live away. I guess that also includes spirits

[@arealhumanbean3058]

​@@omgroflgamer2010 An item description in the DLC confirms the Frenzy Flame burns even spirits, which is why the hornsent also despised it

[@launchbase4944]

yeah...? don't we know that literally because of the night of black knives to begin with?

[@ThomasDSin]

Okay, hear me out… You approach the gates of divinity for the final boss fight: You see that large imposing figure looming between the gates…and that long, golden hair starts to unfurl… You realize it’s Godwyn… As he steps down to engage you in combat, that’s when the blinding light shines down, and Miquella descends and drapes himself over Godwyn’s shoulders… Boom, right off the bat, you fight the brothers, together… As you wind them down to the second phase, the cut scene initiates… You’ve dealt serious blows to Godwyn’s fragile, newly resurrected form, which Miquella cannot aid anymore due to the damage he’s taken as well… Godwyn falls to his knees, and something starts to writhe under his skin… The Death Root starts to burst out of Godwyn’s flesh in a horrific explosion of gore and viscera… Despite his brother’s dearest intentions…this is the Prince of Death’s true, horrific form… This creature, this Prince of Death, is wild and chaotic, it lashes out, attacking both you AND Miquella… BOOM, second phase: You, Godwyn and Miquella all fight one another. Two boss health bars. Miquella and Godwyn. They can do damage to one another, as well as you, and whomever falls first has their power absorbed by the other (like O&S) BOOM! Third phase: You fight either a horrible, golden radiant death root squid monster, or a terrible tentacled Miquella. The final, long awaited buildup to a confrontation with the two golden gods, culminating in an epic three-phase fight.

[@thalassaphobicseaturtle6442]

Low-key genius High-key potentially stoobid

[@Apexapee]

Man I would have loved this!

[@kenobi639]

Godwyn kills Miquella going from phase 1 to phase 2, as his death blighted body erupts into his true form: The fish faced prince of death; painting the entire sky black, threatening a potential cataclysm to both the land of shadow and the lands between, leaving our tarnished to clean up this God-forsaken abomination that once was Marika's perfect, golden child and now Miquella's apocalyptic monster of a brother he thought he could resurrect as his consort; now having been killed by him due to his own arrogance and pride What a twist!

[@Dogtorant]

Love it! but not the part when you have a fight 1v1v1 because people would cheese that fight easy. But maybe Godwyn would swallow Miquella? or Miquella will be an option to summon at 2rd phase?

[@timezthecollector6559]

@@kenobi639 like it but seeing as Miquella is the most powerful of all demigods I highly doubt Godwyn could kill him

[@pedroportela6476]

In the same freaking spot he was in the base game. Dead as fuck, yet not dead enough to not be a problem to anyone else. Also, if Godwyn was somehow revived in the DLC, then that throws Fia's ENTIRE questline as one of the game's freaking ENDINGS entirely out of whack, seeing how intimately tied with Godwyn's undead status and botched resurrection attempts they are. There was just no way in hell Godwyn was going to get resurrected in the DLC with those factors at play.

[@pancakes8670]

The entire Duskborn ending is literally Godwyn transforming into a rune for the Elden Ring. Elder Scrolls youtubers have short term memory issues.

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

@@pancakes8670godwyn is soulless and gone. Whatever comes from that body and fia, it’s not the good part.

[@_oracle]

​@@pancakes8670how? Would you explain please. Cuz I thought ranni killed his soul

[@TrueReverse74]

@@_oracle She did but fia's questline reveals that she intends to revive him.

[@abyssalchaos556]

@@TrueReverse74reviving him wouldn’t work, you need a soul to revive, his soul was destroyed by the rune of death.

[@wild_suicune9561]

No miqlester ending sitting in your lap on the throne , missed opportunity

[@Huarrnarg]

No boywife for us Elden lords. The Greater Will has truly abandoned us.

[@easytiger6570]

We have been forsaken

[@wellplayed6061]

I brought seluvis' amber draught into the dlc with ill intent.

[@user-fy9zv7xr1m]

@@wellplayed6061 elden groomer

[@knavenformed9436]

​@@user-fy9zv7xr1m But but but Miquella is a 4000 year old Empyrean, that doesn't count!

[@cy9nvs]

I still think it would've been much a much more interesting ending for Godwyn to be Miquelas consort. Got a new body for him in the form of Mohg, some magic shenanigans to bring back Godwyns soul, and BAM. I honestly don't know how to feel about Radahn being the consort and there being very little new information about Godwyn.

[@chrismurphy2119]

@@cy9nvs I was really really hoping to see him as the last boss

[@Verbmo]

Godwyn aside rahdan as the final boss is lame.. You literally had to fight him to access the DLC

[@JonatanSHOW1]

Got a new body for "HIM" him is gone! His soul is gone and there is no one to bring back...

[@JoseViktor4099]

Me too man. I wont complain for what we have (although a little Nerf would be nice) , but yes, I consider the Godwin backstory with the most potential to have a Huge conclusion, like using Part of its Soulless body to make a better consort and use new attacks or something like that.

[@Zapdos97]

Some magic shenanigans bringing his soul back would make destined death look weak.

[@Rick055]

At this point Alive Godwin is as real as Bloodborne on PC lmao

[@user-zero963]

Sir Gideon Ofnir confirms that its indeed Miquella inside the cocoon. He even says that it would be better to destroy it.... Good theory but... lore...

[@MikaMikaWhatever]

Gideon also says that a tarnished can't be Elden Lord, but he was wrong. I feel like Godwyn was originally going to be Miquella's consort in the drafts of the story but the idea of reviving a soul killed by Destined Death would make removing Rune of Death irrelevant as Marika could just revive her children through some other means

[@cool2314]

@MikaMikaWhatever Gideon says that because he believes personally that tarnished should not become elden lord beacuse Marika wants the tarnished to suffer and not that the tarnished can't physically become elden lord. But you are right that bringing back godwyn would make destined death lore irrelevant

[@LunaRyuu]

You, the Tarnished, are the one that tells Gideon about Miquella's whereabouts. He's going off what the player character tells him. He cant "confirm" anything because the info comes from YOU

[@eritas4330]

@@LunaRyuu you digging way to deep for this stuff. It’s said by literally the all knowing, the person you go to for info. Plus fia’s entire questline just disproves this theory entirely, you can also quite clearly see that Godwyns body is wearing the exact same clothes we see in the opening cutscene.

[@draw2death421]

Tbf gideon also calls Mohg a Lunatic but turns out Mohg was mind controlled.

[@colinwilhite8241]

Thoughts on Miquella wanting Godwyn originally and Ranni foiling that plan by picking him to be the sacrifice for her plot?

[@ammonohran9534]

Makes perfect sense tbh

[@clockwork8968]

Everyone wanted to stick stuff into poor godwyn... he got lucky it was just a really evil knife

[@Castl3_]

That's the first thought that popped in my head too.

[@vergilvonkarma]

that seems very plausible

[@TheRealJohnux]

I believe in Miquella actually contributing to The Murder of Godwyn by stealing destined death for Ranni.

[@ShardofWant]

Watch bonfires video of Miquellas face reveal he’s wearing the same ring as his corpse in Mohgwyn palace. It’s weird to have that detail on his model in the cutscene you can’t even see. The body inside is the same as the other soulless demigods, so it’s possible castle sol was never talking about Godwyn and he just ended up using one of his bastard brothers bodies.

[@adammorin-q8d]

One. I went to check videos compared the ring they look the same but their slightly different which could mean that all the demi gods got a similar ring. Two. Rahdan isnt Miquella's brother.

[@ShardofWant]

@@adammorin-q8d you gotta be stupid because Rahdahn and Miquella have the same father idiot. Rennala and Radagon had Rahdahn, and Radagon had Miquella with himself Marika. Like even without it being directly stated Rykard Ranni and Rahdahns thrones are all next to each other so you should know they’re all Radagon’s kids. All of the Demigods besides Godfrey’s kids are all at least half siblings. Also you know Miquella says lord brother at long last your returned as he arrives to ride on his brother back.

[@dragonch0ch0ch06]

@@adammorin-q8d yes he is they have the same father (radagon).

[@adammorin-q8d]

@@dragonch0ch0ch06 "father"

[@user-po8kd5cb8e]

@@adammorin-q8d father

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

The body in the egg can’t be Godwyn, the Site of Grace is called the Cocoon of the Empyrean and Godwyn wasn’t an Empyrean. Maybe like Godwyn, Miquella could’ve created multiple bodies. Also people saying that with Godwyn dead in soul it would've been impossible for him to be Miquella’s consort of something but this is Elden Ring, surely there could've been some work around in a game where souls can be transferred and the concept of death itself can be removed from the world and a rune can be made from a harlot coupling with a corpse.

[@darkmatter69420]

Coccoon and body are two different words. The coccoon came from the haligtree. The haligtree is miquella's. Therefore. Its his coccoon. But that doesnt mean he is in it. Why would his body grow 10X in size and go from looking from a teenager to a skinned giant margit? Makes no sense. The body in the coccoon also has bleeding from a wound on his back. And a huge scar starting on his spine. Where godwyn was stabbed. "Surely there could've been some workaround" no. There couldnt be. The rune of death is permanent death. Its literally baked into the core of the story. Godwyn was killed by that rune. Its true death. We need the rune to kill the elden beast/radagon or else they'd just keep reviving to fight again just like you do. No workarounds are possible.

[@georgeb8781]

Seems to me Godwyn was the only progeny of Marika (not her Radagon side) to not be seemingly “cursed” at birth, likely resulting in the sort of mania that caused the shattering. “I finally had a perfect child, only for it to be ripped from me” sort of thing.

[@konger6069]

The site of grace in mohgs arena is called "Cocoon of the Empyrean" Unless theres something in the game that hints to Godwyn being or possibly becoming an Empyrean, it has to be miquella

[@konger6069]

and if the body in the cocoon is Godwyn then what the hell is the monster in Deeproot depths

[@zenny_ox]

That Monster 😂

[@k077er0]

The cocoon is Miquellas, as shown in the intro cinematic. But that doesnt necessarily discredit the possibility that after Miquella was ripped out of it, a new body could've been put inside of it, you could still call it the "Cocoon of the Empyrean" because one resided in it initially.

[@pingcrimson6854]

@@konger6069 i feel like the grace name could be taken in a literal sense, it is definitely the ‘Cocoon of the Empyrean’, since it was Miquella’s to begin with, but with miquella’s self not actually being in it, you can potentially fit the idea that the body within the cocoon was replaced as a way to go between realms, allowing miquella to go within the realm himself

[@MikaMikaWhatever]

I'm interpreting it as the cocoon was made by Miquella but didn't have Miquella inside it. Mogh and his siblings didn't seem to know that Miquella wanted to revive Godwyn, only his followers in Castle Sol did.

[@RipTronx]

We need Godwyn and Gloom Eyed Queen in a second DLC. They HAVE to give us more, there stories just can’t end on nothingness..

[@CM-hx5dp]

The Gloam eyed queen is a footnote, Marika ganked her ass ages ago and she is gone. Godwyn is the prince of death now, the original being called Godwyn is dead as hell.

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

“They HAVE to give us more on the characters who were defeated by the time our story begun!” Lmao why would they do that? These characters are footnotes in the larger plot.

[@darkmatter69420]

GEQ is a nothing burger and godwyn literally has his own ending in fia's questline.

[@PatristicRecluse]

Honestly, the DLC is amazing, but the ending was botched imo. Why Miyazaki couldn't make Godwyn or Melina the final boss considering how much more we need to know about them and how important they are to the game's lore will forever baffle me. A real shame.

[@Yking2077]

I hope Godwin at least shows up in Elden Ring 2.

[@milkshakescigarettes7513]

"Zanziwyn, forgive me."

[@GabagoolGang]

Elden Ring is a one off, we may get another DLC but not another sequel

[@chiyue5676]

@@GabagoolGang this DLC was originally planned to be multiple DLC releases. Miyazaki himself has confirmed that he does not plan to do anything more with the Elden Ring IP

[@bleeem]

How? the mf is dead as it gets, souls is nowhere to be seen, his body is so corrput its part of the world. unless we travel back in time we will never see him

[@lovelylemonfactory]

@@bleeem Have you never noticed how much the Elden Ring looks like a flux capacitor. I wouldn't rule it out.

[@Pooka_Beatz]

I always felt like the hair of miquella while sitting on radans shoulder reminded me of godwyn but maybe im just trippin

[@thatssometal358]

@@Pooka_Beatz on the money

[@shattermelon496]

i mean they are brothers

[@swheeler7148]

His soul is dead, you can't resurrect someone without a soul.

[@mowdestroyer]

prolly why the death knights guarding godwyn's dead body have a sun ornament as there headwear

[@hekam]

Then the Prince of death ending would make 0 sense if Godwin is in the cocoon because Fia gives birth to the rune after she laid beside the corpse in the eternal city.

[@beekai6273]

She didn’t just lay, she got pregnant by it and the tarnished 😂 weirdly

[@varsedo]

@@beekai6273 she better hope her plan works or she’ll birth some undead fish baby of death

[@Wyrdist]

Not only is he dead, but he died in such a weird specific way. Him returning in any way other than his mermaid corpse in Deeproot Depths would be purely fanservice and would make way less sense than Rahdan. I have my own criticisms about the dlc, but Miquella choosing him and by extension, the him returning and having the game do more with his character is a good thing for me. I always thought it was kinda lousy for Rahdan to be hyped up as much as he was, only for him to have a boss fight that’s not fitting at all for the “strongest Demi god”.

[@eepersneepers7872]

Well he was the strongest demigod. We just fight him when he has no more wit left to him. Perpetually stuck on a horse for his feet have rotted off. Having to eat the corpses he slain in battle however many years it was when the shattering happened. He's handicapped right now due to being eaten from within from the scarlet rot. So yes he was the strongest demigod, we just never fight him when he was in his prime. Even in the DLC, he's not Starscourge Radahn because Miquella revived him when he wanted to take Radahn as his Consort. Which happened to be pre-Starcourge

[@hekam]

I think it's the opposite. I think bringing back Rodahn was a fan service because people wanted to fight the prime radahn. And Miyazaki just agreed maybe.

[@eepersneepers7872]

@hekam I feel it was more premeditated than anything. Notice that the only 2 Demigods corpses we don't see are Mohgs and Radahns. Godwyn is beneath the Erdtree. Morgott is in the Elden Throne Arena. Rykard is the head in the volcano. Malenia is the flower. And Godrick is getting curbstomped by Gostoc. Another thing is when Mohg dies he does a variation of the "Let Us Go Together" emote. Even though I feel like it came put of nowhere with no lore. I think they did envision this

[@alphasierrabravo5905]

@@eepersneepers7872 nice find on his death animation and the emote! really nice find!

[@Wyrdist]

@@eepersneepers7872 I agree with the last guy. Nice find, but in the midst of all the dlc hype, Miyazaki said this is entire storyline was planned but scrapped due to time constraints. Still a very good observation tho, but I feel like Miyazaki deciding to charge you for their more or less poor time management reinforces the fact that it shouldn’t have costed $40 as opposed to 15-20

[@dullboy8875]

the amount of people that are surprised that godwyn, the demigod whose soul was completely obliterated from existence by destined death, isn’t in the DLC is mind-blowing.

[@Banbro88]

Not at all lol you're delusional to say that. So many was pointing towards SOMETHING about Godwyn its not even funny. Unless it's included in Elden Ring 2 or another DLC, you can't possibly say that lol. Radahn makes even less sense yet you're riding Miyazaki for this mid final boss.

[@dullboy8875]

@@Banbro88 I didn’t even say anything about radahn, at all, which tells me you’re coming at this emotionally which is to be expected from people like you in this community tbh. i only mentioned that anyone thinking that someone with no soul, and who’s body is in the base game already, would appear in the land of shadows is really dumb. should we have gotten lore? yes, but a final boss fight? it would create more questions than answers but most importantly completely break the lore of destined death and the entire shattering. it was never going to happen and to think otherwise is retarded.

[@onyxonikuma4878]

What's mind blowing is making a character with so much ambiguous lore that goes nowhere just for the dlc to be a reused character because of popularity, on top of that there is nothing, nothing hinting towards miquella picking radahn. Its completely shoehorned in last minute due to people loving radahns fight.

[@darkmatter69420]

​@@Banbro88radahn literally had a hit out on him from malenia ISSUED BY MIQUELLA. She was sent to kill his ass because godwyns soul is unusable, not to spar for fun. Its crazy how you thought you knew what you're talking about but instead just showed you dont pay attention at all.

[@samplexample]

lol that’s not Godwyn in the cocoon. It’s Miquella. It’s called the cocoon of the Emperian after all. Godwyn’s body is still alive, at Deeproot Depths, and he exists as part of the world. So the eclipse ritual failed, and Radahn was the next best thing.

[@quietone2674]

I don't know. In the Duskborn ending I thought it looked like Marika's body turned male, but kept the golden hair, which I took to meaning that Fia had successfully rebirthed Godwyn and that he was the new vessel of the Elden Ring in that ending.

[@vincentbeton]

At least we did not have to see Goodwin the Goldeen

[@hekam]

Everyone wanted to see him. Redahn on the other hand not sure.

[@bigzero7720]

"Hi, I'm Saul Goodwin..."

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

@hekam I for one never wanted to see Godwyn. His soul is gone, and his death was an impactful catalyst that brings the story to where it is when we begin it. To bring him back would cheapen the whole concept of “Destined Death” and would as a result reduce the importance of Maliketh, the Rune of Death, Ranni, and the Black Knife Assassins.

[@hekam]

@@crusaderpenguin5326 it would Make more sense for Miquella to do this because of this same reason because his mother failed. To make the world a gentler place is just not a good enough reason to do all this and also charming people and choosing Radahn of all people...

[@skinnytimmy1]

​@@crusaderpenguin5326 godywn being the catalyst for all this is EXACTLY why we wanted him as the final boss. It would be like a full circle moment.

[@lizzykayOT7]

This makes all kinds of sense to me, Miquella was full on crazy and done with this world after Godwyn died, so he chose the next best option. In the final cutscene he's kneeling before an empty throne and his voice doesn't sound happy. He sounds like he's on the verge of tears and has decided to become a god - which he knows is just a golden cage. It's a self harming moment. The room is also dark, grey and empty. Apart from the throne. He wasn't speaking to Radahn, he's speaking to Godwyn. Their flesh being malleable also explains why Godwyn's corpse deformed that way, it grafted with non-human organisms. But the bits we find and all kind of boneless, so the corpse in Mogh's cocoon being Godwyn's skeleton is now my head-canon too!

[@carlosguerrero__]

imagine miquella possessing godwyns body that shit wouldve been insane

[@bleeem]

what body? the fish body in the roots? i think yall dont know the lore tbh

[@carlosguerrero__]

@@bleeem yes that body is godwyns, did u even play the game?

[@skinnytimmy1]

​@@bleeem well radahn soul is supposedly in mohgs body but it just looks like radahns body lol. I'm sure miquella could give godwyn a lil makeover lol

[@NepSpookie]

@@skinnytimmy1 cant remove the deathblight

[@asgads]

I guess Godwyn will be the main baddy in elden ring 2. that sequel seems like a go after the sales numbers

[@JyotiDeka1989]

And that would be great.

[@asgads]

@@JyotiDeka1989 for sure

[@JyotiDeka1989]

​@@asgads An eclipse leading to the rebirth of Godwyn's soul would be an amazing spectacle and with the sales record of Elden Ring, I don't think FromSoftware would put down the idea for a sequel.

[@FishWithLipstick]

@@JyotiDeka1989 An eclipse is what i wanted for this DLC so bad, i wanted some eclipse at the end of the game that just wiped everything with deathblight with a crumbling divine gate, true metal. I wanted an orphan of kos type body horror thing with godwyn and its a shame we didnt get that in this DLC

[@Zapdos97]

He is gone and should stay gone. It would ruin Destined Death.

[@dyllanaldridge1044]

Interestingly, in the final cutscene, Miquella says, "lord brother...promise me you'll be my consort" leaving it ambiguous as to which brother this is. Additionally, Miquella specifically says if "we honor our part of the vow", implying that Miquella sees himself as part of a group (possibly himself and his bewitched) working towards bringing Miquella and his "lord brother" together. Edit: additionally, in the initial cutscene of the King Consort Radahn fight, Miquella says, "my loyal blade...and champion of the festival...both your deeds will ever be praised in song. Now, the vow will be honoured, and my lord brother's soul to return". It's possible Miquella is referring to three people in this statement. He might be initially referring to his loyal blade, Mohg, and the champion of the festival, Radahn, then his lord brother, Godwyn.

[@iwuvsmybeanie]

Possibly Miquella is referring to himself and St Trina? Or himself and Malenia? If Godwyn's soul could be brought back, I think Marika probably would have done it herself. He was her golden child, after all, and she would have been at least as powerful pre-Shattering as Miquella became at the Gate of Divinity. I think Destined Death puts its victims beyond the reach of even a god, hence why it was so feared. If they were killed by any other method then Marika could have just brought them back. I think in the cutscene, he's referring to Radahn as his loyal blade, and _we_ are the champion of the (Radahn) festival. He's saying that both our deeds and Radahn's will be praised in song. It's part of him trying to talk us down.

[@dyllanaldridge1044]

@@iwuvsmybeanie You make several fair points, thank you for the feedback! I'm thinking the most likely conclusion is that FromSoft left the language intentionally vague for people like me with crackpot theories :)

[@iwuvsmybeanie]

@@dyllanaldridge1044 Crackpot theories are fun!

[@alphasierrabravo5905]

Why would Marika make ANY sort of a CONFESSION to the grandmother at shaman village? "An affair from which The seduction and betrayal led to the birth of gold." What if Marika secret was that she cheated on Godfrey and had Godwyn? I beleive with a dragon, hence his tail. Note we NEVER EVER see Godwyns lower body, even in the intro cutscene of the game. Its only until the VERY END of Fia's questline that the truth is revealed about him. The only Omen children were, Morgott and Mogh, but she then cast them aside like dirt. So why wasnt Godwyn an omen as well? Also note that the ENTIRE reasoning for Miqella's crusade was because of Godwyn. The statues at Farum Azula are of Godwyn coddling Miqella and Melania. I personally beleive that after beating Radan, we see Miqella talking with someone who he wants to be his consort. I believe this IS Godwyn he is speaking to NOT Radan. People fail to also implement the fact that Godwyn was EXTREMELY powerful. So much so that he ended the war with dragons. This powerful warrior is what Miqella needed but Radan is just the second best thing.

[@summe.R]

Shadow Realm is heavily connected to Those Who Live In Death and Godwyn, the death knight armor found states something like they were once protectors of Godwyn and were waiting for the age of duskborn, and since that’s the ending we can get with Fias quest line there’s no denying that. along with the isolated towers message, it mentions all in death end up here, only to be suppressed….. they all end up back to the Erdtree, and if not then they’ve become Those Who Live In Death… all of this said, I think it all connects somehow but not sure the details.

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="291">4:51</a> wait a minute, you're right; Miquella divested himself of his flesh WHILE IN THE LAND OF SHADOW, something he couldn't reach on his own, something he needed you to kill mohg in order to do; he's right ahead of you in the DLC, we HEAR him discard his great rune. So when he discards his flesh, it happens IN THERE, RECENTLY, not when he was put in the haligtree to begin with. This means his flesh is In _in the realm of shadow,_ Not in the cocoon.

[@shnorkeythefourth4572]

Something something time is convoluted

[@Trimondius]

I think this was an oversight on fromsoft to be honest,alot of the dlc lore conflicts with the original game lore.Yea it doesnt make sense for miquella to be both in the cocoon and divest of his flesh in the shadow realm but then again I dont think they originally planned miquella to be the bad guy in the end.

[@iwuvsmybeanie]

I feel like he's doing some kind of solid astral projection and leaving behind a sort of magical imprint where he severs the _connection_ to each part of his distant body. The only severed piece we can really see is St Trina, and I don't think she corresponded to a particular body part. I think he cast away her part of their shared spirit and she latched onto a flower to manifest herself-she is literally growing out of that plant. Rather than "I abandon here" meaning "I am abandoning this part of myself in this location and leaving it physically here" I think he might mean "This is the location where I undertook the action of abandoning." With St Trina not really being a physical part of him, she and all the other non-physical parts could have been abandoned literally in those places, but it could be more symbolic with his flesh. I mean, this is Elden Ring. There's gore aplenty in the rest of the game, so if he was actually literally physically dropping off bits of his flesh, they wouldn't feel any need to censor it with pretty golden light.

[@uglahboi6074]

The great rune breaks when the Tarnished gets too close to the Shadow Keep/base of the Scadutree; not necessarily because Miquella discarded it at that moment. His spell was most likely broken due to our Grace-ful presence

[@shnorkeythefourth4572]

@@uglahboi6074 if you don’t already know it also breaks after you leave the bridge from Bonney village towards the monastery in case you’re doing another play through

[@IdleWandering]

You don’t comeback from death of the Soul, he’s dead dead

[@Zapdos97]

First comment I see that aligns with what the story says..

[@aaronapley258]

Hey don't they literally say that they're reviving Radahn's Soul? Why would his soul even need reviving, as far as I'm aware the Scarlet Rot isn't like the Frenzy Flame and can't affect the soul of an individual. Malenia not included in that because I believe it might just be completely inseparable from her but idk and that's irrelevant.

[@pedroportela6476]

​@@Zapdos97 Yeah, people are way too busy huffing copium and drinking that headcanon juice to remember what the game actually tells them. It's the Star Wars thing all over again, with people growing overly attached to a theory or headcanon they formulated in their heads that they grow bitter when the story doesn't go in that direction.

[@hallucinate90s]

His soul didn’t die, it was his body that died

[@azazel5673]

Radhan died both in body and soul and yet he was resurrected

[@skungillian91]

i was convinced we had to kill radahn to resume miquella's fate so he could try doing another eclipse and then all of his compatriots would die and we would find godwyn but no sorry

[@5purg]

Ansbach was the one who removed Miquella from the cocoon. It's was confirm by Leda. It happened when ansbach challenged Miquella but was charmed. After that it was him who removed Miquella from the cocoon not mogh.

[@KingScxr]

Instant notification click, this has been the question on my mind since I completed the dlc

[@baraldogrant]

Was hoping for clearer lore on Torrent too.

[@echidnaburger02]

One of the main things the death knights confirm at least to me, is that Goldwyn most likely used some sort of axe to fight, like his father

[@kanseidorifto2430]

My personal way of understanding this is that with Miquella's endgame he would want to control literally everything. He has the ability to persuade and manipulate people, he could directly charm people and effectively enslave them against all reason of their will. He had learned to control the flow of spirits and how to enable rebirth. The one thing he truly lacked control over was fate, that which was found in the stars themselves. And Radhan was the only one that could've actually held control over the stars, so... to control Radhan, is to control fate. And with fate itself too under his influence, then nothing would stand in Miquella's way. True complete domination.

[@LordofGodsandMen]

I was very sad about that but it’s okay the dlc is awesome as is

[@kingjohn8980]

We already know Godwyn’s body is in Deeproot Depths. We even go through a whole quest line with very convoluted steps in order to revive Godwyn for the Duskborne ending. Godwyn begin resurrected in the DLC just wouldn’t have made sense.

[@1.0xY.m0r0n]

How does that quest involve reviving Godwyn? As far as I knew it was just to get the mending rune of death so those that live in death would no longer be persecuted.

[@kingjohn8980]

@@1.0xY.m0r0n look back at the dialogue with Fia after giving her the curse mark. She talks about giving Godwyn a “second-illustrious life”.

[@UmbyWumby]

@@1.0xY.m0r0n because they made it up 🗣

[@kingjohn8980]

@@1.0xY.m0r0ngo back and listen to Fia’s dialogue. When you give her the curse mark, she talks about giving Godwyn a “second-illustrious life”

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@1.0xY.m0r0n 'reviving' isn't the best word for it but as Fia says "And it will surely stir within me. the new life of the golden prince, and first Dead of the demigods, as the rune of Those Who Live in Death." Godwyn becomes the mending rune you use to reintroduce destined death into the order. Godwyn is in effect being transformed into an alien enitity like the elden beast.

[@the_infinexos]

The closest we'll ever get to a Godwyn bossfight is those Death Knights, who were his personal guard

[@Michijere77]

THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS! I’ve been waiting for someone to tackle this issues. I thought I was going crazy, missing something like this.

[@Brendonherring522]

Nope. This theory is firmly refuted in the lore. The body is Miquella's. Miquella required blood transfusion from Mohg in order to bypass the erdtree upon his death. We know that the rune of death was eliminated from the Order upon its creation, which allowed Marika to co-opt the cycle of life and death via the process of erdtree burial. However, as the Omen were seen as having tainted, impure blood by the Order (particularly Mohg, as he had communed with the Formless Mother), they weren't able to participate in this process. Miquella took advantage of this in order to allow his soul to be transported to the Lands of Shadow upon his death, where we know that all manner of death ends up. This same effect is presumably how we are able to get to the Lands of Shadow, by touching him and thereby coming into contact with the Omen blood that Mohg had suffused him with. Although, we can get super weird with this (we'd gotten mohg's blood injected into our finger via Varre's quest already) so the mechanics are superfluous with respect to this discussion. Moving on. As for the body's appearance (since we can see that he had retained his childlike form when he was pulled out of the haligtree), his body clearly has the same skin tone as Mohg and other Omen, with the enlarging of his hand. And finally, the nails in the coffin for this theory are twofold: 1. Obviously Fia is lying with Godwyn's body, which is still there throughout the entirety of the DLC. We use it to enter Godwyn's dream, where we do battle with Fortissax. 2. The model in the cocoon does not bear the cursemark of death, which was carved upon Godwyn's skin as his soul was killed. The body is Miquella's. The end! P.S. I do genuinely enjoy the lore discussion that's arising from the DLC and naturally, people have to throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks, otherwise we'll never come to a solid conclusion on the full story. However, while I don't want to seem like I'm being a baby about it, it's bugged me how many "theories" people are churning out without considering the base game's lore at all, or seemingly without vetting them against anything. Anyhow, let's keep the discussion going! Let's talk about how the Fell God is a SNAKE!

[@shiroamakusa8075]

There were no signs for Godwyn having any more story to tell. His story is complete to the point that you can get an alternative ending out of his questline. His soul has been destroyed and his body has mutated, metastasized all over the Lands Between and has become highly allergic to anything holy. Meanwhile: 1.The very first story trailer showed Malenia whispering words to Radahn. If those had been inconsequential there would have been no reason to linger on them 2.The fact that Malenia waged war on Radahn specifically despite his domain being the furthest away from her own base of power while ignoring weaker targets on the way 3.The fact that Radahn and Mohg do not leave corpses behind but the other Shardbearers do 4.The Haligtree was a failure from the start hinted at by looking practically nothing like the Erdtree (but resembles the Scadutree pretty closely), so there was always a plan B (or it was the original plan B) The hints existed. Those who claim that this came out of nowhere are just willfully blind.

[@tuvergalarga6144]

Godwyn peak

[@amysteriouspersonintophat1458]

I agree that there were hints of Radahn's relationship with Miquella, *but I would argue Godwyn's story is the MOST incomplete of all the characters. The alternative ending you refer to is more of Fia's story than Godwyn's - he was just a tool for Fia's purposes. For example: We still have no idea what happened on the Night of the Black Knives aside from sparse details given in the base game, even though it's one of the two most important events in lore (the other being the Shattering). Did Godwyn let himself be killed? Did Marika know the members of the Black Knives personally? Since Miquella knows Ranni (via Torrent), does he know she killed Godwyn? We also don't know why the eclipse of Castle Sol failed, assuming it was for Godwyn. And although we are told Godwyn was a great man, no NPCs talk about him personally. Heck, we don't even know if he was born a merman or not. Everything about Godwyn is a mystery. Also, if Godwyn was revived, he has a lot more story potential. Would he be vengeful and corrupted if he came back, or would he remain honorable like when he was alive? Would he feel regret or responsibility if he saw how his death has affected the Lands Between? Does he hate his mother Marika for starting the Shattering? How does he feel about the Tarnished as Elden Lord? Does he even want an Age of the Duskborn? These are all questions his revival could've answered that would lead to deeper themes. Radahn being revived is also neat, but Godwyn's story has so many pieces missing that we could do with a lot more item descriptions and NPC dialogues to explain his story even if he doesn't make an appearance as a boss, so it was kind of disappointing the DLC didn't deliver on that front.

[@Demarini71691]

They're willfully blind for a couple reasons. You have the people that hate being wrong and grew attached to Godwyn theory. Plot twists blow these mfers egos up. Then the second group that hates Radahn more than anything, Malenia simps.

[@zaniki7307]

Just adding to your first point, they wrapped it up with Radahn’s young lion’s helm stating that the whisper was “Miquella awaits thee, O promised consort”

[@CtisGaming]

Radahn holding back the Stars prevented the Eclipse ritual at castle Sol from bringing back Godwyn's Sol. The Lands Between has a closed death system that's superceded by the Land of Shadow's. It uses the Erd Tree as a recycling mechanism for souls with the Rune of Death circumventing this. It stands to reason that the Rune of Death sends the soul off to where they'd usually congregate before the Golden Order, the Supression Tower. From there, with Radahn dead, the Land of Shadows in Eclipse, and Miquella ascending to Godhood via the same method that gave Marika the power to entrap, recycle, & revive souls then make the Golden Order and True Death he could've revived Godwyn.

[@OBS3RV3R]

I dont know if anyone else noticed it but there is also a 3rd godwyn corspe/cadaver thingies in the Jagged Peak near the area where you fight the first Jagged Peak Drake and it is half broken. I havent seen anyone talk about that and only just the two death knight catacombs

[@DeMut88]

I can understand that people would love to see Godwyn in the DLC, but first of all: Bringing him back would ruin the whole point, that he's dead and nothing can change that despite all the attempts. Second he lives in death, hes dead but still influence the world, hes not really there but still has an impact, there would be nothing special about living in death, when there would be no differences from being alive.

[@yharnamiyhill787]

Based on the DLC and the nature of Numen's ability to merge, (aka: grafting), I speculate that Godwyn the Golden is also a Grafter. (His original corpse has a fish tail, and clam head.) This would make sense because Godefroy and Godrick practices grafting religiously. This might be the reason as to why Ranni and/or Marika targeted Godwyn to be slain. His corpse would be grafted to the roots of the ErdTree, poisoning it. The ErdTree would be poisoned with Death via root system; Marika smashes the Elden Ring; orders her children to fight for supremacy instead of uniting to mend the Ring; and had the Tarnish come back to also participate in the Shattering. It was all to annihilate rebel against Golden Order and the Elden Beast.

[@halfblood_drag0n]

and everyone said i was crazy hoping godwyn would be in it

[@glocktaivious8825]

Even what miqula says right before you fight himself and Rahdahn he mentions finally returning his brother's soul

[@LoveYourselfFirst100]

I think the ghosts in Castle Sol were supposed to reflect the idea that Miquella's bewitching would even have a hold on its victim after death. By all accounts of the story, Godwyn was bewitched and Miquella loved his brother because he was his means to power and it was a tremendous loss; Radahn was not some loyal consort, he was just another of Miquella's playthings and just like the ghosts at Castle Sol, his very soul is now owned by Miquella, which is also why Godwyn's soul death was so grievous for Miquella because it meant his bewitching was over and his soul was free, whether Ranni knew or not I don't think matters. Radagon could of been the part of Merika bewitched or Atleast the bewitching of Merika forced Radagon into existence possibly and what we see as current day is just Miquella holding together what's left bewitched... I think this whole story is just Miquella bewitched everyone he could and just said fuck it I'm on one and removed the rune of death so he could just own everyone's soul forever.

[@jimsecretarchive]

Wasn't Godwyn resurrected in Fia's ending as a rune ?

[@evanmiller6767]

Can someone tell me the name of the music playing in the video thanks

[@XTheJenovaProjectX]

Kings Field IV - Dark Reality

[@piotr78]

And the first one is the Demon's Souls hub music

[@FMGInferno]

The fast travel for the arm is called the Cocoon of the Empyrean. So it probably is his body.

[@aaphiiux]

it could be used in a possessive sense. the cocoon does belong to him and was made by him, but it might not be him inside. it could be purposefully misleading

[@squishthatcat8808]

my thoughts about miquella was that he has bug-like features. (because the cokoon) --during metamorphosis, a bug may discard its old exosceleten.-- similiarily the arm in the cokoon may have been left behind after miqulla finished a metamorphosis. a metamorphosis. i think the humanoid figure in the haligtree behind malenia could also be a former body of miquella. to me it makes sense that this is an essential process for miquella to remain young. leaving bodyparts behind would become quiet easy. ....something about mimikry... short summary: i think miquella is a humanoid bug

[@zenny_ox]

he’s a frog 🐸

[@CJusticeHappen21]

My theory is that Godwyn and Ranni were wedded, as a means of further consolidating their two families when Radagon became Marika's next Husband. Ranni had Godwyn killed as a means of breaking their relationship. "Til Death Do Us Part" and so forth.

[@IdleWandering]

@@CJusticeHappen21 you’re theory is somewhat similar to mines, but in my theory they are not married but Godwyn is Ranni’s promised consort by the 2 fingers, it makes sense that the two fingers would decide who each Empyrean would need as a Lord to become a god and Ranni hated the influence of the 2 fingers that’s why the plot of the black knives happened which caused the shattering which lead to Miquellia becoming the chosen one the be a god and his chosen consort was Rahdan.

[@mythzel898bet2]

I dont think its ranni,its ancient dragon Fortissax(if you believe Fortissax is female since there is no female or male pronouns just an it in the item description and lansseax being the sister of fortissax)because since godwyn is the Scion of the golden bough, meaning the same level as morgott and mohg,and since we dont know any other demigod in that same level other than godwyn and the omen twins,well how do you think the golden lineage is many until it reach Godrick?also Godrick speak to a dead dragon, calling it kindred,more evidence that the golden lineage have ancient dragon or atleast draconic blood

[@Rory626]

Godwyn would have been a much more interesting consort for Miquella than just making us fight Radahn again

[@mikeage9824]

I think this is my new headcannon until given good evidence against

[@RaymondMichaelBarrera]

Seriously though, they truly robbed us of Godwyn in the DLC.

[@weebhunter9305]

What if the Hornsent succeeded into creating a Saint? Marika, we know that was their whole idea behind the jars and besides Marika there isn't another (Miko) shaman or maiden whichever translation you accept for now, that had an alter ego. Which is Radagon and remember this. Every child of Marika and Radagon specifically had some influence or alter ego. Messmer was influenced by a flame and then a abyssal serpent consumed it, Malenia was influenced by an Outer God, Miquella who straight up had an alter ego St.Trina, and since Melina is implied by Messmer flame that it is his younger sister possibly had the Gloam Eyed Queen which Marika defeated giving us a reason as to why Melina doesn't have a body since the Gloam Eyed Queen was killed and Melina was the alter ego. That's why they talked about being betrayed by Marika, they think they were doing good by the atrocities committed trying to create a saint only to succeed and Marika played her role until she had the opportunity to take power and become a God. And to explain the rest of Demigods is easy, at that point Marika and Radagon were separated Marika and Godfrey had Godwym, Morgott and Mohg. While Radagon went and had Ranni, Rycard and Radahn. And the Demigods mentioned above only had traits/roots of their respective parent. I'll even retract what I said about them being separated they might have had control when they were having their respective children.

[@marcus22greene]

it would feel like every foe of Marika have defeated or sealed away, has in way have been reborn as her children.

[@th3thatguy631]

I dont think Melina is the alter of The Gloam Eyed Queen, simply because of gender. Marika and Radagon are male and female, same as Miquella and St. Trina. Theres a start of a pattern there without any further evidence to show that an alter may be of the same gender i think its safer to assume that Melina simply is; The Gloam Eyed Queen. Also note that Messmer has his right eye missing while Melina has her left eye... "Gloamy"? The eyes could very well be a method of containing otherworldly and "unholy" magic. Both Melina and Messmer also contain a form of fire magic, which i believe to be associated with the Frenzied Flame. The only two ways of burning the erdtree is either using the frenzied flame or having melina sacrifice herself. Messmer also has the ability to burn down the shadowroot or whatever its called in the dlc. Then its revealed that marika fucked the Frenzied Flame dude in the dlc and that Messmer and therefor Melina may have been born from Her and the Frenzied Flame fella. Note the Frenzied Flame also has alot of Eyeball imagery Is the fire magic possessed by Messmer and Melina a genetic form of the Frenzied Flame? I think so

[@weebhunter9305]

@@th3thatguy631 Lol, no the Frenzy Flame at no point is able to burn down the Erdtree by itself, even if WE go down in the capital we still use the Fire the giants left, also although there is a pattern there is also no evidence saying that an Alter Ego can't be of the same gender, after all what the Hornsent did was to put bodies together with the bodies of Shamans/Numen. As we also know Radagon is Marika and when they both do the shaka shaka guess how their kids come out? Cursed Miquella and Malenia, Messmer now is a confirmed case as well being cursed with fire and the abyssal serpent, and in his own flame description he had a younger sister who bore visions of flame. Which flame? We see it in game which flame Melina can manipulate. Also my speculation on Melina having an alter ego is pretty simple, Melina at no point uses Black Flame/Destine Death/God Slaying Flame but remember what she promised to deliver to us in the Frenzy Flame Ending? That's right Destined Death and that's just a different name they have given to it.

[@Sogrub]

For everyone saying that Godwyn couldn't be revived because his soul died: Mohg's soul also died and even so Miquella revived his body with Radah's soul, so no, it wouldn't be impossible to revive Godwyn, especially since it is implied that an eclipse can give Godwyn a soul

[@IdleWandering]

@@Sogrub No Mohg soul didn’t die his body was used as a vessel for another soul. Godwyn had a curse carved into his body with the rune of death that killed his soul. Reincarnation can’t take place if you have no soul, the only reason why you see Godwyns body across the lands between and shadows is because his body was given a erdtree Burial. His corpse is still alive and infecting the erdtree that why you have death root now and those that live in death.

[@CM-hx5dp]

The eclipse did not fucking work, and im pretty sure it never would have.

[@theresnothinghere1745]

Mogh soul didn't die in the same way as Godwyn, Mogh died regularly so his souls is still in the erd tree's cycle. Godwyn died via destined death, his soul is not in the erd tree's cycle of life. The deaths aren't comparable at all. Of course Mogh/Radahn can be revived we literally do the same with summonable ashes and revive those dead to fight in our stead.

[@jessiellanes3004]

Omen are Different since omen are related to the crucible where a cycle of nature Radahn died like being judged in underworld While Godwyn soul died to be never to be reborn or no longer exist or maybe got thrown to another dimension something like that

[@Skrighk]

From an in universe explanation, I think this makes sense. From a development standpoint, I feel that our next DLC will focus fully on Godwyn, and that there was some real world meetings that happened after Vanilla launch that affected the DLCs trajectory.

[@draw2death421]

Miyazaki confirmed theres no 2nd dlc for elden ring so...

[@SupraSwag16]

the body in the cocoon is in fact miquella's arm how in sure of it because it has the same ring and same ring placement when we get to see miquella's memory at the end of the game

[@dudeiii2069]

Radahn becoming consort has such a strong arya stark killing the night king to subvert expectation energy.

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

Genuinely curious, what would you have preferred? Godwyn is lore breaking, you can’t get around that without cheapening major story events. While the connections are fragile in the base game, this explains the conflict between Malenia and Radahn, and does explain why she marched all the way to Caelid. None of the other demigods besides Mohg and Malenia had connections to Miquella. Mohg’s body was used, and Malenia has a literal outer god within her, which would likely be incompatible with Miquella’s new order. Miquella himself is not a fighter as per the lore in the base game. Not trying to be contrarian but I’ve heard a lot of people calling this “bad writing” but the suggesting an alternative of even worse writing (Godwyn).

[@dudeiii2069]

@@crusaderpenguin5326 you just watched an entire video explaining why Godwyn is a better choice. And by your logic Arya stark is the perfect person to kill the night king. Faceless assassin shes a faceless assassin perfect for sneaking up on some white walker. It isn’t about the logic of the story but its the fact that some very important characters story is quite empty, and there are setups without payoffs, i.e castle sol. Contrast this with Radahn where he’s story already collided with Ranni with 2 separate questline that collides at the Radahn festival and Ranni’s quest, deating Radahn and continuing Ranni’s fate was a satisfactory end to Radahn’s story, there can be more lore tibits here and there but you shouldn’t continue Radahn story until more characters are flesh out. Whereas Godwyn quest had us bring true death to him, if the shadow lands are where the truly dead end up then Godwyn should end up here after the rune of death is unleashed. I genuinely think the requirement should be to defeat mohg and complete fia’s quest for us to access SOTE. This would flesh out the story of Godwyn, where he ended up beyond death, when a demi-god dies, and losses both his physical body and his soul, where does he end up in the realm of shadows… what does this have to do with miquella’s plan etc.

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

1. The video doesn’t address my main point. He even says, in the video, “maybe Miquella didn’t bring back Godwyn because he COULDN’T”. The cocoon theory he presents is not confirmed/canon. 2. You can’t relate Arya/Night King to this. Both different scenarios. Elden Ring deals with rebirth, death, and gods in a different way. They’d need to be examined individually, you’ve not shown how my logic is the same in both (and for the record, I believe that Jon Snow should have been the one to kill him). 3. “Whereas Godwyn quest had us bring true death to him, if the shadow lands are where the truly dead end up then Godwyn should end up here after the rune of death is unleashed” - Show me where in the game does it say we gave Godwyn a true death. Fia failed, she was killed by D’s brother before she could lay with Godwyn. Are you referring to us freeing death when we beat Maliketh? Not sure how that would free Godwyn’s soul - his death is different than most of the others cursed in the Lands Between. 4. From a narrative perspective, I absolutely think Miquella wanted Godwyn as consort before Radahn. But what I like about Miquella is his curse seems to be that he can never complete/fully succeed in a plan. The Haligtree didn’t do what he wanted, so he tried to bring back Godwyn. That failed, so he went to Radahn. Each plan becoming more drastic and less in line with his original vision until he is no longer who he started out as.

[@dudeiii2069]

@@crusaderpenguin5326 Fia did not fail to bring death to Godwyn. We managed to get the Great Rune and kill Foritsax, the only thing that lingers inside of Godwyn preventing a true death after Fia lies with him. When D killed Fia he was just beating a corpse. She said after I lay with Godwyn take the great rune and create the age of the dusk born and let Godwyn achieve life again or something... We did that before D killed Fia Here's the dialogue from the game taken from the wiki after giving her the hallow-brand: 'Oh, my utmost thanks. With this, Godwyn can take his rightful place as First of the Dead. And claim a second, illustrious life' Here's the dialogue when talking in secret after giving her the curse mark of death:' I will soon lay with Godwyn. And it will surely stir within me the new life of the golden prince, and first Dead of the demigods, as the rune of Those Who Live in Death. Please, do one thing for me. Brandish this child, my rune, and take for yourself the throne'. There are so many insinuation that after taking the Great Rune Godwyn claim a new life somewhere probably in the realm of shadows. Plus, you did not talk about how Radahn story effectively collided with Ranni's quest and ended satisfactorily at the festival, and the setup in castle sol with no pay offs. Theme wise, Radahn was rot, and war whereas Godwyn was about life and death... and we're in the realm of shadows. Godwyn seriously should've had a bigger role in this DLC. Plus, Miquella curse isn't that her plans failed, it is her forever youth, I feel like you made that up, show me something in the game that says her curse is for her plans to fail... I mean if just because her plans fail a few times, then I can also say that Gideon is the lord of all failed plans. I love this DLC its one of the best DLC out there but Radahn being there is very much out of place.

[@Top-Lip]

I'm sorry but Godwyn retconning himself back into existence out of nowhere with no sensible explanation, is the equivalent of Disney reintroducing Palpatine in the Star Wars sequels. Radahn as a consort makes a lot more sense because he's the only character in the lore who can control the stars and cause an eclipse, necessary for the revival of the demigods that have died true deaths. You are not taking into consideration that if Miquella controls the stars then Miquella has a monopoly on the fates of all characters in the storyline. Not only this, but the whole Godwyn argument glosses over the pretty huge fact that Radahn isn't even Miquella's consort in SOTE to begin with! The people who say Radahn was shoehorned into the DLC need to stop for a second and mentally process the fact that it's not Radahn, it's Mohg. This makes so much more sense than Godwyn because Mogh's soul is already in the process of being used by Miquella to achieve his end goal. Radahn's body is being used as a superficial vessel specifically because of the power to influence the star cycles and Radahn is probably the only vessel in the lore powerful enough to contend with the outer gods, if the destruction of the golden order creates a power vacuum. Miquella's objectives in the lore have absolutely zero correlation with those who live in death, they are completely contradictory. Not only this, but those who live in death are completely immune to his charm, as Miquella is only able to charm beings that possess living souls. A pretty important oversight that collapses the whole theory that Godwyn should have been in the DLC. What possible lore reason would Miquella want with a grotesque incarnation of death? What use is a corrupted dead body as a consort when Godwyn's soul no longer even exists? What use is someone elses soul in Godwyn's body? Miquella has already attempted to revive Godwyn in the lore and failed, he learned that it was not possible to revive a demigod whose soul was destroyed by destined death. Furthermore General Radahn was preventing an eclipse. The game couldn't be any more on the nose about this. "But long ago, General Radahn challenged the swirling constellations, and in a crushing victory, arrested their cycles. Now, he is the force that repulses the stars." The very fact that the stars resume their cycle when he dies is a pretty big indicator that Radahn's death and ability to control the stars is the catalyst for the fates of other characters. But Miquella can't take advantage of the rmovement of stars without Radahn's ability to control their cycles. It's so painstakingly obvious why Radahn's body is necessary for Miquella's eclipse to occur. Miquella opportunistically uses Radahn's body when he's dead because Miquella wouldn't have ever been able to kill Radahn or been able to charm Radahn while he was alive due to the cognitive failure from the scarlet rot. Malenia originally tried to kill him, that is the whole reason Malenia invaded Caelid to begin with, to procure his body, but they fought to a stalemate and it was unsuccessful. "Oh, Lord Godwyn... Such cruelty, such humiliation... My poor, sweet lordling should have died a true death. As the first of the demigods to die. As a martyr to Destined Death. But why must it yet bring such disgrace? A scion of the golden bough, sentenced to live in Death..." Godwyn's corpse is in absolutely no possible state to align with Miquella's age of compassion at all. You'd have to retcon the entire lore of Elden Ring to even begin to make this work which not only then makes destined death pointless, but also entirely retcons the story writing of other characters like Ranni and Maliketh. Godwyn can't be revived by normal means, his soul has gone, his body is an abomination that has been attached to the roots of the Erdtree. It makes more sense for Miquella to try and use Mohg in Radahn's body to create another eclipse in a last ditch effort to try and recreate Godwyn's original soul and reinstitute it in the body of another demigod that can be charmed, but this would still absolutely necessitate the use of Radahn and Mogh's bodies. Radahn to create the Eclipse, Mogh likely to be the new temporary vessel for Godwyn. Also, I want to add, the video betrays its own point. It's been foreshadowed the whole time that this is likely to be the case with the name Mohgwyn palace. It's intentional that the location of Miquella's cocoon, is where Mohg resides in the game, it's been very clear that Miquella wants to use Mohg in the process of creating a new soul for Godwyn, so that he may be reborn in the body of an Empyrean. This is the whole reason why Miquella's body is represented inside a cocoon, a symbol of rebirth. There is a void now in terms of what happens to Radahn's original soul, which could have created an opportunity for Miquella to control Godwyn's body, but then again there's nothing in the lore suggesting that Godwyn's body is even in a state to be useable without the eclipse as he's consigned to live in death, and Miquella needed to become a god regardless for any of this to happen. So it never even made sense for Godwyn to have an appearance in SOTE in the first place. Period. There's untied ends in the lore for a reason, Elden Ring's story has not yet concluded. The people who had expectations for Godwyn to just Palpatine back into the plot in his original body and be dealt with in the DLC must have purchased the wrong ticket and took the crazy train off rails to the lands upside down in-between which explains where a lot of this fan-fiction comes from. The GEQ and Godwyn deserve lore revelations and story appearances in a sequel to Elden Ring or another DLC written by fromsoft who actually understand story writing. Godwyn's body is now a completely separate entity connected to the corrupted roots of the Erdtree and has nothing to do with Miquella anymore. These half assed "headcanon" fanfics or necrophiliac fetishes from people trying desperately to clutch at straws for a Godwyn boss fight at the expense of the storyline, don't make sense and never will.

[@pp-wt6ng]

Hes cooking

[@ChiraqGoblin]

I really want to fight this Enemy as a Boss I just like how unsettling the Look is ,<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="12">0:12</a> just imagine turning around and seeing this staring at you 💀

[@MrNuclearz]

Having fucking Radahn again as the final boss and not Godwyn is the biggest L in the history of the souls franchise.

[@Orzacle]

Godwyn was literally never going to come back. He existed, he lived, he died. His soul was OBLITERATED and whatever was left of his soul got crammed into a Mending Rune. He got an entire ending dedicated to him. Wanting him back in any form besides a sprawling mass of death meat is missing the point of his story.

[@sentientslimemold]

I think miquella chose radahn over godwyn because godwyn was a golden order fundamentalist, which he already knew was a futile belief

[@Adp93939]

....and so was Radahn ? It actually makes more sense that Godwyn would even be convinced by Miquella since the twins were very close to Godwyn, so it would be an (understandable, yet pretty big) twist if Godwyn switched allegiance... and I think that would be a much nicer endgame boss too

[@Zapdos97]

He chose Radahn because he's really strong. Even though Radahn was a war monger that looks up to the 2 previous Elden Lords.

[@eepersneepers7872]

@sentientslimemold Radahn is a Golden Order fundamentalist too. His armor and himself both show this. His flaming red hair like his father, Radagon. And his armor, to depict the lion Serosh, and he also revered Godfrey. He also has an Erdteee on his cape. Radahn was very much a fan of the Golden Order and keeping things the way they are

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

Godwyn defeated the dragons, and then made peace with them. Befriended them. No charming magic required: all genuine. This greatly inspired Miquella: Godwyn to him, is both incredibly powerful and incredibly kind. Perfect. Radahn, meanwhile, is a warmonger. Endless battle. The opposite of Miquella’s values.

[@antoineguerrier2965]

@@CreativeUsernameEh Only Radahn's power matters to Miquella. When you can literally mind control people, what they think or what their personalities are don't matter.

[@movespammerguyteam7colors]

Eh, the problem is that we encounter the literally soulless body of Godwyn. He has become and is the source of all Deathroot in The Lands Between even reaching Farum Azula which is literally floating in the sky. The Golden Epitaph sword appears to have been created solely to permanently kill Those Who Live in Death. It seems Miquella changed who he was attempting to “Frankenstein” together because Radahn’s presence literally halts the movement of ALL THE STARS, including the sun and moon to create an Eclipse.

[@CoffeeBrainzz]

You forgot to mention the Half Eclipse Shotel at Castle Sol, The Legendary Armament. It’s picked up at the final Alter next to one of those ghosts and right before the boss fight. It’s item descriptions MENTIONS The Prince Of Death. So it 10000% was Godwyn

[@Levinswords]

i think something wildly overlooked is HOW dead Godwyn’s soul is. Guys, Marika SHATTERED THE ELDEN RING when he died, if Godhood would allow you to revive somebody slain by Destined Death itself, unlike Radhan or Mohg, Marika would have just… done that. Godwyn’s soul is permanently gone, and only his body could have been used, which would have made the base game incredibly messy and the Duskborne ending useless.

[@Levinswords]

100% think Godwyn was Miquella’s intended Consort, killed by Ranni for that reason, in some sort of war between the Sun and the Moon (Eclipse) where the Moon won, aka her succeeding in her plans with Godwyn, not Miquella’s plans for him.

[@cyclic_infinity]

@@Levinswords Fully agree with both points here. I could even imagine that Ranni convinced Miquella she would use the rune of death to give Godwyn a true death to send him to the realm of shadow, and then betrayed Miquella by killing his soul in the ritual to further her own plans towards godhood. Obviously no evidence for that, and a basic competition for Godwyn definitely tracks as well.

[@TheScrootch]

I suspect Ranni just despised the fact that she was an empyrean, a lot. And she was probably wasn't too pleased either in what state Radagon left her mother. I suppose that Ranni got back at the golden order by killing Godwyn's soul and divesting herself of empyrean flesh, a big fat middle finger to the golden order and a way to get rid of her fate

[@fortress7493]

this comment is 100% not contradictory to the main game. Nothing in the main game contradicts radahn's return. Why? Because when Radahn died that was before the rune of death was unsealed by us after defeating Maliketh

[@KeanuChrist]

Solid theory. I've always though that giant hand was too big to be Miquella. Hopefully, we learn more about Godwyn, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen in Elden Ring 2 - I hope.

[@JLeviNow]

This is why story is important. Goldwyn soul is dead it can not be brought back. The eclipse failed to bring it back and Miquella moved on. Just like he moved on from the golden order when it couldn’t cure the scarlet rot. But if we fought his body in someway that would’ve been great.

[@Brown95P]

I wish the DLC went into detail on what exactly the age of the deathborn would entail -- whether it'd actually restore Death to the order like the mending rune describes or whether it'd just consider living skeletons as legitimate within the order and nothing more. Alas, Mike Wazowski did not want it to be, and so it'll forever be the most ambiguous ending in the game.

[@chopsandtoots]

Well From said they haven't ruled out a second DLC. And I'm a certified hater, I hated the final boss lore wise.

[@captaincorundum9788]

They have as far as I'm aware.

[@GabagoolGang]

They also said there wasn't even going to be DLC, I'm huffing copium but I think the game has 1 more expansion to give.

[@chopsandtoots]

@@captaincorundum9788 it deleted my comment (I linked an article) but basically it was a "we don't have any current plans but we're not saying never either". So like, cautiously optimistic lol.

[@devinkonquer3334]

Godwyns entire story literally finishes in the main game im so sick of seeing people say there isnt enough. We return Godwyn to something anew it would break Fias quest to have him in the dlc. We get Radahn because he is the strongest demigod what better consort is there? Im also sick of hearing all you lore people say that cocoon isnt miquellas actual body what could it even be then? She also might not refer to it as miquellas arm is because he has divested himself of his flesh. Godwyns body is literally in deeproot depths your reaching way too hard not everything in souls is really this convoluted

[@Hekk.]

Body in the cocoon could be a body Miquella is preparing for Radahn - the finishing touch would be adding Mohg's blood and flesh permanently.

[@tailsnerd3240]

That what a theory is souls games are all about theories now i do get that godwyn is not in cocoon i get it but it's theories

[@Xxpatr1otxx]

It is 100% okay to allow others to have their own differing opinions from your own from time to time. Doesn’t invalidate your opinion, but you need to be willing to allow people to chime into the discourse. This is how great ideas are made.

[@devinkonquer3334]

@Xxpatr1otxx literally what I'm doing sharing in the overall discourse I think there are great ideas for speculation for the dlc however in this video in my opinion none are proposed he's focused too far away from the actual dlc I get this dude really likes Godwyn but his story is done let's talk about Miquella, Merika, Mesmer, and Melina stuff that really matters and we actually got answers on

[@devinkonquer3334]

@Hekk. the realm of shadow and the lands between can't directly act with one another there's clearly been a hard separation made between the two lands through the story and the gameplay why would Miquella then be building his consort in the lands between a place where he no longer holds any direct influence? I'm well aware Mohg and Melina are still under his spell but they both sit in their off shoot areas not easily accessed just waiting around for Miquellas return something which we learn is never going to happen. A more interesting question is how did Miquella enter the realm of shadow and why did he needs Mohgs help to do so? The cocoon from the haligtree itself is incredibly interesting one point being is it even really a cocoon to me personally it's always looked more like a seed. I'm just saying the bodies being anyone but Miquellas makes no sense to me it serves no purpose to have some random in there. Ranni divests herself of her own flesh to escape Merika to carve her own future I find an easy parallel with Miquella he abandons his flesh like Ranni but seeks to make a new age that's guided by his own hand to achieve this higher status over Ranni he takes it even further abandons far more than his flesh so that by the end he can ascend to an even higher god hood than his mother found. Sorry I want people talking about what's actually really cool about the whole story of Elden Ring and not just more Godwyn speculation but oh well here we are

[@nicholaslvov8363]

I’m so happy that I’m not the only one who doesn’t see any sense in the body inside the cocoon being Miquella

[@lemon_boi305]

this is actually one of the more interesting theories I've seen. good job!

[@NyctoManiaX]

As I have also said under Vaati and SmoughTown's videos for the DLC, Godwyn would have made a more interesting final boss! Let me explain. We know that in order to ascend to Godhood, Miquella needed a body and a soul to "create" a king consort for himself. He chose Mohg's body, but what if instead of Radhan, he had decided to revive Godwyn's soul instead? There's nothing against this in the lore as far as I'm aware. After all, we have speculated for so long that Miquella has had a good relationship with Godwyn and even tried to resurrect him in Castle Sol. He was not successful however, because he and his followers could not cover the Sun and create an eclipse. So, the Land of Shadow would have actually made perfect sense for such a ritual, since it's covered in shadows. And since Miquella would have only needed to resurrect Godwyn's soul, and not his body, it wouldn't have clashed with the presence of Deathroot in the Lands Between either. And last but not least, it would have made a more interesting fight in the end. We have already seen Radhan as a boss fight, but imagine seeing Godwyn from his glory days, something we have only heard and speculated about!! Coupled with Miquella, he would have made hell of an interesting final boss imo. I'm sure the devs have had their own reasons to go with Radhan, and I know this would have changed the main plot of the DLC. but I think Godwyn as Miquella's kind consort would have been more interesting both lore-wise and gameplay-wise.

[@AlexBaldivino96]

@@NyctoManiaX Would’ve been cool to have Godwyn as Miquella’s consort, but isn’t Godwyn’s soul unable to be resurrected due to the Rune of Death used on him when he was assassinated? Wouldn’t that make it impossible for Miquella to revive him? At the very least, Radahn’s soul remains intact whereas Mohg’s soul cannot return to the Erdtree due to him being an omen thus leaving his body a perfect vessel to house Radahn’s soul.

[@t0nitru5]

@@AlexBaldivino96 this. i too understood that godwyns soul is perma dead since his soul is the only one which truely died. i wished to fight prime godwyn since we fought his dragon companion but i also knew that there is no way to bring him back.

[@NyctoManiaX]

@@AlexBaldivino96 That's a good question. However, before the rune of death was removed from the Elden Ring, anyone who died in the Lands Between would enter the Land of Shadow. At some point, Marika decided that she didn't want anyone to enter the Land of Shadow anymore, so she removed the rune of death and with it, the possibility of truly and permanently dying in soul (the souls would now return to the Erdtree instead). So to me, dying before the Elden Ring was shattered is the equivalent of dying by a blade imbued with the rune of death. This means Godwyn's soul could very well be still present somewhere. Maybe the fact that Miquella was trying to revive him implies that reviving his soul would have been possible under different circumstances, and I tend to think that the Land of Shadow could have provided those circumstances.

[@heatwave0]

​​@@AlexBaldivino96It is impossible to resurrect Godwyn because he didn't die a true death but if we are able to give him a true death (body and soul), then resurrection at the Gate of Divinity might be possible, as what Miquella did with Radahn. Radahn died in body and soul during the festival that's why I think his soul was able to wash up in the Land of Shadow.

[@skinnytimmy1]

​@@NyctoManiaX yes, if godwyn died by the death rune, his soul would just go wherever all the souls went before the death rune was removed from the elden ring.

[@VROOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM]

Bringing Radahn back as the final boss gave me massive blue balls. Depressing that the greatest game ever made couldn't stick the landing; kinda like Game of Thrones.

[@nathanmagnuson2589]

The community circlejerked itself into this disappointment

[@Wyrdist]

@@nathanmagnuson2589 I don’t understand are you saying they set themselves up for it? Not agreeing or disagreeing I just don’t know what you said

[@nathandominie9473]

I don’t think that’s true because at least sote was still amazing despite its flaws whereas game of thrones final season ruined everything everyone loved about the series but that’s just me

[@VROOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM]

@@nathanmagnuson2589 I'm not involved with the community. I speak for my own disappointment.

[@nathanmagnuson2589]

@@VROOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM You are here on a lore theory video so I kind of doubt that.

[@MrHammerofdoom]

The site of grace is literally called cacoon of the emyprean, you are off your trolley.

[@zacthesecretweapon9931]

It somewhat makes sens when you know that corspe in that cocoon have 2 arms , while Mikela have 3 or 4 arms