Where is Godwyn in Elden Ring's DLC?

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Thumbnail Art: / godwyn_the_golden_pain...
Eclipse Video: • Why Does Miquella Want...
#eldenring #gaming #shadowoftheerdtree

[@agtjake]

Pure and radiant...my head cannon shrives clean the hearts of men...

[@iminyourwalls-gj3uc]

There is nothing more terrifiying

[@Stolice1]

@agtjake I have a question to your headcannon. What about Godwyn's body in the Deeproot depths? Does he have two bodies? And why is there no deathblight present in the mohgwyn's palace?

[@TazKidNoah]

i think Godwyn was experiment for Miquella to see if he could revive any soul with any body & until he arrived to Scadutree to see the only path but that's my theory

[@lonelySires]

It is time to let godwyn go, his soul is gone. Fia was his last chance, and we could not defend her, and we gave her killer his armor and weapon. So it is our fault.

[@princess_in_lilac]

What if the Lord brother miquellas resurrected is the body of Mogh the mind of Radahn and the soul of Godwyn? there are some things in game that imply that the soul and the mind are not entirely the same in elden ring. And when miquellas resurrected Radahn he really just created his vision of a perfect being that encompasses all. The might and interlect of Radahn, the accursed and the unloved raw culmination of the omen and the crucible of life with moghs body and the radiant nature of Godwyn the golden his companion he lost to destined death. Dunno tho I'm just throwing shit at the wall here

[@sharptongue2972]

Godwyn's story will be revealed in the prequel, Young Ring.

[@sasaki999pro]

_Young Sheldon Ring_

[@Vini-zv3lr]

Youngin Ring

[@Pyovali]

Young Triangle

[@0malleyAlleyc4t]

21 and Older Ring

[@flaflu180399]

@@sasaki999pro *Young Ring, Sheldon of the Erdtreeory*

[@Rick055]

At this point Alive Godwin is as real as Bloodborne on PC lmao

[@MatthewSoddy]

It'll only happen when the fans make it happen. Lol

[@JoseViktor4099]

Maybe the real Godwin were the friends we made along the way

[@patches2221]

You mean all those people I murdered?

[@baraldogrant]

😂

[@fitmcdeezy8778]

Lmao well said 😂I😂

[@Daniel-bc5yq]

And the SotE's best comment goes to...

[@erikreber3695]

I've never seen this one before... Such an original and interesting comment!

[@Augmenti8323]

There is a common misconception about the curse that afflicts Kindly Miquella. He is not cursed with eternal youth, but with nascency. This means that nothing he starts will ever come to fruition. His Haligtree never grew to rival the Erd Tree, he never cured his sister Malenia, he never revived Godwyn, and he never ushered in his age of compassion. His eternal youth is merely a symioor of his inability to complete anything.

[@meowtank]

relatable...

[@ayo_terrion]

Whenever I read/write comments like this it bugs me how I don’t make videos for myself/others. Great breakdown on reading between the lines. Hope you have more insight on all the other bosses as well!

[@BobbinRobbin777]

Lil bro has that competitive procrastination.

[@mansgotplans]

Where in the game does it even say Miquella is cursed? With all due respect I can’t just believe allat even though it sounds good

[@Augmenti8323]

@@mansgotplans Remembrance of Malenia, Goddess of Rot, hewn into the Erdtree. The power of its namesake can be unlocked by the Finger Reader. Alternatively, it can be used to gain a great bounty of runes. Miquella and Malenia are both the children of a single god. As such they are both Empyreans, but suffered afflictions from birth. One was cursed with eternal childhood, and the other harbored rot within.

[@prod.a.b.i.l1930]

The "Lord brother, please die a true death" in the description for the Golden Epitaph is something that facinates me alot because it shows that Miquella loved his brother, so much so that he tried to cause the Eclipse to resurrect Godwyns soul and restore him to the person he was. The idea of killing Radahn, who held the stars back, to cause the Eclipse and eventually the resurrection of Godwyn was right there. The Haligtree has statues of Godwyn cradling his brother and sister so seeing Godwyns face in the Realm of Shadow along with 2 of his personal knights felt like we were getting a Godwyn resurrection alongside finally giving him the "True death" Miquella wanted to give him. Obviously that means we'd have to slay the now compassionless Miquella who lost himself to his desire for Godhood in an attempt to save his brother, but alas, that is a story for someone much smarter than me to come up with lol.

[@lanxreedalenlum3706]

i figured thats why we had to kil rahdan too, miq want an eclispe, rhdans stopping it, right, kill him the eslcispe time, then save godwyn, then hopely, his beloved and loyal sister

[@MrOctavian2012]

I think the true death is actually explained by Freyja, but it's esoteric; a true death seems to mean a death worthy of the dying, as in the person dying sees it as worthy. Godwyn' assassination and stabbed in the back vs Radhan's defeat in Caelid at a festival dedicated to him. Radhan NOT dying to Malenia wasn't part of the plan methinks, and Ranni used that part of the ritual to untether herself.

[@Yazzieeee]

Godwyn is honestly one of the most influential characters in the series. So many people take after him and it’s not just one group, but a plethora of individuals. And that is why he had to be the first to perish. He’s from the lineage of “the oppressors” so to speak, but even his enemies (mostly now turned allies) speak so highly of him. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s where Miquella got inspired to “enchant” everyone. Only difference being that the love people had for Godwyn was actually real.

[@XxBearZeusxX]

Miquellas love is real, however that too, like a piece of flesh did get cast away.

[@Dustpuma1]

Oppressors is a bad word to use you can apply it to anyone. but Yes he was basically Jesus of Elden ring

[@Yazzieeee]

@@Dustpuma1 I agree that’s not the best word, but tbh nearly everyone in Elden Ring (fromsoft in general) is not a “good person” unless they’re minor NPCs or people who just die early on.

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

I think Godwyn was a positive influence on young Miquella. In the Haligtree Statue, We see him sheltering the Twins, with Miquella gazing admirably up at him (differs from every other statue where the twins embrace) Strong and peaceful, Godwyn was the best. I’m so sad over what happened, and thr character assassination of Miquella.

[@vitaliyred622]

What if Ranni got charmed by Miquella to kill him, because unlike Miquella Godwyn’s love was not due to his magical charm but natural.

[@BlueOga]

Fuse Mohg and Godwyn? Like.. Some kind of a Mohgwyn, huh?

[@tuvergalarga6144]

Wait you cooked

[@chopsandtoots]

I do wonder if they made some last minute changes because idk man, this ending felt kinda off

[@Glaine-nd8pk]

@@chopsandtoots Graphically, consort Radahn looks off to me, so I think it was a "last minute" change.

[@chopsandtoots]

@@Glaine-nd8pk I'm a proud hater of how this DLC went lore wise lol. I'm almost annoyed that people are complaining about the difficulty when there's actual criticism to be had imo

[@cherybum]

this is like saying Melina and Malenia are supposed to be one cuz their names are similar. Do you know why their names are similar tho? Cuz they are siblings just like Godwyn and Mohgwyn

[@dznnah]

I heard someone say that Godwyn is like black mold. You have a dark place that's kinda humid and before you know it... there's a godwyn growing in the the corner.

[@gamersthumb3723]

@@dznnah godwyn growing in the corner had me choke 😂😆😂

[@pstrongman602]

Explains why that one patch in my shower looked familiar

[@spokoman23]

oh sh1t, my patch does have eyes!

[@RandomPerson-qv1lh]

Somehow I thought of resident evil black mold

[@georgeb8781]

Seems to me Godwyn was the only progeny of Marika (not her Radagon side) to not be seemingly “cursed” at birth, likely resulting in the sort of mania that caused the shattering. “I finally had a perfect child, only for it to be ripped from me” sort of thing.

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

Maybe godwyn was the only child she actually cared for.

[@dmin5782]

@@buffoonustroglodytus4688 I think she cared for Messmer as well. I mean, he is likely her firstborn son.

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

@@dmin5782 but she abandoned him in the shadow realm.

[@dmin5782]

​@@buffoonustroglodytus4688 Not necessarily mutually exclusive. Marika is still a terrible person and mother (understatement).

[@tfranklin]

@georgeb8781 Except Godwyn was conceived with Godfrey. There's also the theory that he was a merman in life. I feel like Marika's attitude toward the Crucible shifted at some point which lead to her betrayal of the hornsent, Godfrey's banishment, etc. It seems like Crucible aspects were accepted and even celebrated. There's some speculation that Marika was involved in the Night of Black Knives.

[@Nicole_whatsgood]

Miquella going insane trying and failing to resurrect Godwyn could’ve been great. Imagine the last boss is Miquella being like “Lord Brother… you’re finally home” and it’s just a giant writhing death root body you have to kill

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

That would have been way cooler. Godwyn’s curse corrupting Miquella despite his best intentions would be so tragic and could explain why there’s no new ending unlock. Instead we got radahn shoehorned in despite it not making any sense or having any set up, sote crapped the bed rigght before the finish line.

[@sfcSpidey]

And then it contaminates miquella becoming like an angel of death and the sky turning black could have been really good stuff I like the radahn fight I just don’t like the story

[@Grimsly3736]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@CreativeUsernameEhwell I mean the set up was the whole fight that happened in Calied no? But I do agree with you that it was still kinda shoehorned in but there was some set up but not enough especially when Godwyn had more

[@TheLastDonaldYouMcRonald]

That would have been so badass

[@flying-magpie]

It would have been so badass! We could have gotten "Godwyn the Soulless" but noo.....

[@sentinellord5024]

I’m gonna start deathblighting people in PvP just for godwyn not being in the dlc

[@blackmane1999]

😂

[@JustAFatherlyNerd]

Lmmfao

[@angiesworld8038]

Good thing there's not a deathblight status effect for the player to use. It's too over powered.

[@ShredPerspectivesWorks]

The same here

[@ShadowthePast]

An important detail to note, the ring on Miquella's finger in the final cutscene appears to be the same ring on the withered arm (although it's slightly hard to tell without looking closely)

[@shaunv3673]

I noticed that too myself. That ring sure got a lot bigger.

[@ydkwil]

It's a wedding band-placed on the ring finger of the right hand.

[@timothyb1836]

It's a signet ring, meaning it bares his family's sigil ergo the exact same one Godwin would have. However that means that Godwin had a lord consort......

[@KitsuneShapeShifter]

@@timothyb1836 Must've been a Dragon lol

[@ThomasDSin]

Okay, hear me out… You approach the gates of divinity for the final boss fight: You see that large imposing figure looming between the gates…and that long, golden hair starts to unfurl… You realize it’s Godwyn… As he steps down to engage you in combat, that’s when the blinding light shines down, and Miquella descends and drapes himself over Godwyn’s shoulders… Boom, right off the bat, you fight the brothers, together… As you wind them down to the second phase, the cut scene initiates… You’ve dealt serious blows to Godwyn’s fragile, newly resurrected form, which Miquella cannot aid anymore due to the damage he’s taken as well… Godwyn falls to his knees, and something starts to writhe under his skin… The Death Root starts to burst out of Godwyn’s flesh in a horrific explosion of gore and viscera… Despite his brother’s dearest intentions…this is the Prince of Death’s true, horrific form… This creature, this Prince of Death, is wild and chaotic, it lashes out, attacking both you AND Miquella… BOOM, second phase: You, Godwyn and Miquella all fight one another. Two boss health bars. Miquella and Godwyn. They can do damage to one another, as well as you, and whomever falls first has their power absorbed by the other (like O&S) BOOM! Third phase: You fight either a horrible, golden radiant death root squid monster, or a terrible tentacled Miquella. The final, long awaited buildup to a confrontation with the two golden gods, culminating in an epic three-phase fight.

[@thalassaphobicseaturtle6442]

Low-key genius High-key potentially stoobid

[@Apexapee]

Man I would have loved this!

[@kenobi639]

Godwyn kills Miquella going from phase 1 to phase 2, as his death blighted body erupts into his true form: The fish faced prince of death; painting the entire sky black, threatening a potential cataclysm to both the land of shadow and the lands between, leaving our tarnished to clean up this God-forsaken abomination that once was Marika's perfect, golden child and now Miquella's apocalyptic monster of a brother he thought he could resurrect as his consort; now having been killed by him due to his own arrogance and pride What a twist!

[@Dogtorant]

Love it! but not the part when you have a fight 1v1v1 because people would cheese that fight easy. But maybe Godwyn would swallow Miquella? or Miquella will be an option to summon at 2rd phase?

[@timezthecollector6559]

@@kenobi639 like it but seeing as Miquella is the most powerful of all demigods I highly doubt Godwyn could kill him

[@RaymondMichaelBarrera]

Seriously though, they truly robbed us of Godwyn in the DLC.

[@royalsuperdrip596]

I feel like the dlc leaves room for a part 2

[@Grooviebones]

According to Miyazaki, don't hold out hope. Its the only planned dlc

[@kingk.d.m4620]

Definitely since the main game takes place in the lands between and the dlc is in the shadow realm there has to be another to make the lands between actually in between. There’s always the possibility of Marika having more children out there and Godwyn can play a role as well. There’s definitely more content for a dlc or elden ring 2

[@MrDrProfesserAlex]

@@Grooviebones he also said it was the size of limgrave. You’re probably right but I want to keep huffing the copium

[@Diamond_2403]

@@kingk.d.m4620 There's a whole Land of Reeds with samurai and stuff that's constantly in Civil War. Maybe they can come up with something there?

[@TaIlonIV]

@@Diamond_2403 Bro, I get you but don't. If you follow that path, you could start will all FromSoftware titles.

[@hypnoticskull6342]

Godwyn during Shadow of the Erdtree "Guess I'll do nothing."

[@Rotten_Abyss]

@@lovelylemonfactoryon Marika lol, people don’t realize that Godwyn’s soul is destroyed, you can’t be brought back from it.

[@HasturTheKingInYellow]

@@Rotten_Abyss All the more reason for Miquella to ascend to Godhood to bring it back anyhow were his mother failed.

[@RR-oz9my]

@@Rotten_Abyss they can create literally different ideas to bring him back, its not a big deal, its a fantasy anyway

[@Struct.3]

​@RR-oz9my The gods here are not omnipotent, and the rules of death seem pretty well defined. Marika went mad after his death, I'm sure if she had the power to she would have saved him.

[@zawarudo8991]

@@Rotten_Abyss "soul destroyed" misinformation 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@milkshakescigarettes7513]

There's no discussion to be had here: Patches is Miyazaki.

[@ijustreview]

Bravo Michael Wazowski

[@spencar666]

Tears for miquella and tears for radahn, aye aye aye

[@lizzykayOT7]

This makes all kinds of sense to me, Miquella was full on crazy and done with this world after Godwyn died, so he chose the next best option. In the final cutscene he's kneeling before an empty throne and his voice doesn't sound happy. He sounds like he's on the verge of tears and has decided to become a god - which he knows is just a golden cage. It's a self harming moment. The room is also dark, grey and empty. Apart from the throne. He wasn't speaking to Radahn, he's speaking to Godwyn. Their flesh being malleable also explains why Godwyn's corpse deformed that way, it grafted with non-human organisms. But the bits we find and all kind of boneless, so the corpse in Mogh's cocoon being Godwyn's skeleton is now my head-canon too!

[@Skrighk]

From an in universe explanation, I think this makes sense. From a development standpoint, I feel that our next DLC will focus fully on Godwyn, and that there was some real world meetings that happened after Vanilla launch that affected the DLCs trajectory.

[@draw2death421]

Miyazaki confirmed theres no 2nd dlc for elden ring so...

[@mastercraython3372]

The site of grace in Mogh's arena is called "Cocoon of the Empyrean", and Miquella is an Empyrean while Godwyn was not. In souls games we can only trust in items descripcions and, in this case, locations or grace names. Still is fascinating that Mogh's palace is called Moghwyn...

[@TheScrootch]

Godwyn actually means "God friend", so I guess you could speculate that Mohgwyn means something like "Friends of Mohg". Like the loyalists in his dynasty-to-be

[@shnorkeythefourth4572]

Moghwyn might be his full name, maybe he shortened it to Mogh to separate himself from his family more

[@mastercraython3372]

@@TheScrootch I wasn't aware of this! It actually makes sense. I was thinking that Gwyn, like the Lord of Sunlight of Dark Souls 1, means holy, white, fair, bright and pure. All of words that can fit Miquella description, or Godwyn himself

[@mastercraython3372]

@@shnorkeythefourth4572 You think? I mean, there are no items decriptions or dialogue...but i guess it can be true

[@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274]

As stated above moghwyn is likely his full name and mogh the name he goes by, as all other beings in the marika family tree have 2 syllable names and fromsoft loves patterns in names like -> rykard ranni raduan / Godfrey Godwyn godefrey (Margot and mogh are omens so don’t get proper names cause marika)

[@AlexBaldivino96]

But if Godwyn is inside the cocoon, then what is that malformed, withered corpse within the place where we fought Lichdragon Fortissax? Doing the Age of Duskborn questline all the more confirms that “thing” is Godwyn himself.

[@Nomadtheus]

@@AlexBaldivino96 it could be a fully grown surrogate corpse.

[@Just_B0red]

Maybe they are failed Godwyn expetiments? Like Fia took warmth of champions and gave it so something idk, in order to bring Godwyn back, but each of those "Fish monsters" is a failed attempt to bring him back to life? I still think that Corpse being guarded by Fortissax is Gowdyn, or at least the OG body, but who knows.

[@ahkosorsomesaykosby9999]

​@@fluffycarrot42the cocoon contains Miquella unless the site of grace name, leda, the button prompts, Malenia bossroom, and the Miquella simos are all lying/misleading us

[@Calvin_Coolage]

@@fluffycarrot42 But that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Godwyn's soul is gone.

[@HolyAbomination]

@@Calvin_Coolage but where do dead souls go?

[@MarcellusMaize]

Given everything we learn about Marika in this dlc, I actually like the fact that Godwyn stays “dead” because it adds more narrative weight to his death. Even after ascending to Godhood, Marika was still powerless to escape the plights of her past life. 2 of her kids were born with the exact same features of the people who she despised, and her one perfect golden son was killed despite her removing the rune of death in order to avoid anyone close to her dying ever again. It makes Marika feel a lot more human and tragic now (even if she is still a horrible person overall).

[@chopsandtoots]

Well even if they found a way to resurrect him, Marika isn't really around to see that anyway thanks to us lol

[@omgroflgamer2010]

We know from trailers and item descriptions that the shattering, aswell as the shattering wars, happened soon after Godwyn's death. I think Godwyn's death in soul only clashed with the rules Marika set upon her new world. That is why Godwyn's body is spreading uncontrollably, like a bug causing errors in a program. Her world cannot compute how and why this happened, as Death was not meant to be. Especially in soul only. It's as you said. Marika, avoiding the loss of her loved ones, removed the rune of death from the elden ring. But when, despite all she had done to achieve this, becoming a god and changing the rules of the world, her golden son died, she shattered the elden ring. Clearly the world wasn't perfect. She was in the process of flipping the table, breaking it all, when Radagon and the Greater WIll restrained her. So she set up her children to duke it out, collect all runes and take her place. Who ever couldn't achieve that goal would become a stepping stone for the one who does

[@riotguards]

It feels weird in that FROM felt as if Radahn would be considered special like Gwyn or king vendrick is in dark souls, like the end game boss was revealed to be Radahn instead of the more impactful than the literal focal point of all the events in the game. Like the fight could start with a Godwyns perfected body and he has radagans but perfected combos but the second phase has his body corrupted by destined death, the rune springing out of his back and a panicking Miquella coming out panicking trying to calm him down before accidentally getting absorbed akira style into Godwyn who transforms into a full fledge lord of death It would be far more tragic in that all the sacrfices he made to revive his beloved brother, all the atrocities all amounted to nothing but his own death. But sadly we just get Radahn 2.0 and then phase 2 radahn 2.5 epilepsy mode

[@Foatizenknechtl]

@@chopsandtoots actually not true

[@demsterclippy4252]

I understand godwyn staying dead... i still wish i saw the damn thing animate and fight me though. I want to see more of the prince of death. And we didn't get it.

[@echidnaburger02]

One of the main things the death knights confirm at least to me, is that Goldwyn most likely used some sort of axe to fight, like his father

[@summe.R]

Shadow Realm is heavily connected to Those Who Live In Death and Godwyn, the death knight armor found states something like they were once protectors of Godwyn and were waiting for the age of duskborn, and since that’s the ending we can get with Fias quest line there’s no denying that. along with the isolated towers message, it mentions all in death end up here, only to be suppressed….. they all end up back to the Erdtree, and if not then they’ve become Those Who Live In Death… all of this said, I think it all connects somehow but not sure the details.

[@animeproblem1070]

Godwyn being gone makes sense to me story wise he represents the literal golden child the perfect ideal of the golden order and with his death the dark depravity of the order is revealed resurrecting him would undo the thematic nature of that story

[@mikeekim8567]

actually insightful comment for someone with an anime profile picture

[@eldenanchor8179]

While I agree with your thoughts about Godwyn, I think resurrecting him and using his soul/body would further emphasise the depths of depravity the current order has sunk to. Turning the prodigal son against the order itself.

[@HasturTheKingInYellow]

It would make sense if Miquella did all this to bring him back because of that. Radahn does not make any sense.

[@animeproblem1070]

@@eldenanchor8179 yet that would go against the indisidious nature the game is trying to show you that Miquella has instead it would almost be just making him directly and unquestionably irredeemable where the more you look at it the point is that his darkness is hidden between the layers never directly shown just implied

[@cool2314]

@eldenanchor8179 miquella is not part of the Golden order and abandoned it so him resurrecting godwyn would not really work

[@cool2314]

Lol if shadow of the erdtree had a revelation that our tarnished character was a Reborn godwyn running around that would be hilarious.

[@zarenboug5410]

I wouldn't mind that at all tbh. Recently, I watched a lore video that mentioned something interesting. When the cutscene plays where the Tarnished first receives their grace, you can actually hear the sounds of a walking mausoleum in the background. So might be plausible in a perfect world.

[@jacquesbonhomme8198]

I’m adopting this headcanon, thanks

[@CM-hx5dp]

@@zarenboug5410 the tarnished is probably not godwyn (where did our body come from if we're godwyn?) but they might be one of the other soulless demigods

[@cool2314]

@@CM-hx5dp well you can transfer souls into new bodies and the game does not say it was destroyed only that it died so its possible some could recover godwyns soul and put it in a new body

[@TheDaveisNope]

Thats the lore of my tarnished tbh xD

[@1Artorias1]

No miqlester ending sitting in your lap on the throne , missed opportunity

[@Huarrnarg]

No boywife for us Elden lords. The Greater Will has truly abandoned us.

[@easytiger6570]

We have been forsaken

[@wellplayed6061]

I brought seluvis' amber draught into the dlc with ill intent.

[@HaruSān-e4v]

@@wellplayed6061 elden groomer

[@knavenformed9436]

​@@HaruSān-e4v But but but Miquella is a 4000 year old Empyrean, that doesn't count!

[@movespammerguyteam7colors]

Eh, the problem is that we encounter the literally soulless body of Godwyn. He has become and is the source of all Deathroot in The Lands Between even reaching Farum Azula which is literally floating in the sky. The Golden Epitaph sword appears to have been created solely to permanently kill Those Who Live in Death. It seems Miquella changed who he was attempting to “Frankenstein” together because Radahn’s presence literally halts the movement of ALL THE STARS, including the sun and moon to create an Eclipse.

[@arongan8938]

I disagree. In my mind the reason Miquella couldn't resurrect Godwyn's soul like he did with Radahn's is because it was permanently killed by destined death (rune of death). Think about it. It is said that it was the only thing capable of killing demigods permanently after it got removed. That's why they were so afraid of Maliketh. Also Marika removed this rune of death out of elden ring and that caused people in lands between to live forever. And even if they got somehow killed, they would eventually resurrect via Erdtree. But if that's true then why demigods that we kill never get resurrected? Simple! Either it's because of shattering that effectively destroyed Marika's order or because they were rejected by Greater Will and no longer a part of the order. Maybe both at the same time. Honestly it would be insanely cool if it mattered how you killed Radahn. Imagine if you used Black Knife or Maliketh's sword to kill Radahn and that resulted Miquella to be unable to resurrect his soul and maybe player would have an option to become Miquella's consort. No homo just in case.

[@quis9795]

Bro should've just used rick, God's soldier.

[@azureascendant994]

Or Patches.

[@_oracle]

Unironically it would've been better as a final boss, rather than the bs shit show epileptic modded ass goofy second phase radhan we got

[@bleeem]

@@_oracle pure salt

[@zeko3421]

@@_oracle lol

[@Midnitethorn]

Agreed. Miquella must have missed the ghost pointing to the tutorial area

[@spencerharmon681]

With Torent being afraid of the Abyssal Woods, I get the feeling that a spiritual death has no return where, with a physical death, the spirit can live on.

[@Alex-bw6yd]

Well we know this is true from what I hear we’ve seen. Godwyn can’t be resurrected and his body festers and rots because it continues to live without a soul, stagnating. And both Ranni and Radahn (who experienced physical death) were able to have their souls placed into a vessel and remain themselves.

[@rodrigoa.m3566]

@@spencerharmon681 Isn't Torrent afraid of the Abyssal Woods as a bit of foreshadowing for the presence of Frenzied Flame, from Midra?

[@omgroflgamer2010]

@@rodrigoa.m3566 makes sense. Especially as all that remains in the lord of frenzied flame ending is a crumbling, destroyed ring (we use to summon Torrent) that Melina picks up. You can hear Torrent cry out in pain. The frenzied flame burns all live away. I guess that also includes spirits

[@arealhumanbean3058]

​@@omgroflgamer2010 An item description in the DLC confirms the Frenzy Flame burns even spirits, which is why the hornsent also despised it

[@launchbase4944]

yeah...? don't we know that literally because of the night of black knives to begin with?

[@HasturTheKingInYellow]

Then the Prince of death ending would make 0 sense if Godwin is in the cocoon because Fia gives birth to the rune after she laid beside the corpse in the eternal city.

[@beekai6273]

She didn’t just lay, she got pregnant by it and the tarnished 😂 weirdly

[@varsedo]

@@beekai6273 she better hope her plan works or she’ll birth some undead fish baby of death

[@vermidian_]

@@HasturTheKingInYellow But also, Goldmask synthesizes his own rune. And rune bears contain some element of runes, be they found or not. I think whatever runes are in the metaphysics is a bit less corporeal and seems more connected to the realm of thought and intention and character.

[@Marikus_Eternal]

@@varsedoshe birthed the Mending Rune of the Death Prince. And that Rune is literally Godwyn reincarnated.

[@Gho5tWr1ter]

Do you know why the DLC never featured Godwyn? Because- GODWYN DOESN’T LOSE! HE KEEPS WYNING!!

[@Pachiku93]

Maybe originaly was intended for Godwyn to be Miquella's consort but the community liked Radahn so much they changed it

[@AmygdalasBalls]

i don’t think so lol.

[@colinwilhite8241]

Thoughts on Miquella wanting Godwyn originally and Ranni foiling that plan by picking him to be the sacrifice for her plot?

[@ammonohran9534]

Makes perfect sense tbh

[@clockwork8968]

Everyone wanted to stick stuff into poor godwyn... he got lucky it was just a really evil knife

[@Castl3_]

That's the first thought that popped in my head too.

[@vergilvonkarma]

that seems very plausible

[@TheRealJohnux]

I believe in Miquella actually contributing to The Murder of Godwyn by stealing destined death for Ranni.

[@tyrant-zero]

Sir Gideon Ofnir confirms that its indeed Miquella inside the cocoon. He even says that it would be better to destroy it.... Good theory but... lore...

[@MikaMikaWhatever]

Gideon also says that a tarnished can't be Elden Lord, but he was wrong. I feel like Godwyn was originally going to be Miquella's consort in the drafts of the story but the idea of reviving a soul killed by Destined Death would make removing Rune of Death irrelevant as Marika could just revive her children through some other means

[@cool2314]

@MikaMikaWhatever Gideon says that because he believes personally that tarnished should not become elden lord beacuse Marika wants the tarnished to suffer and not that the tarnished can't physically become elden lord. But you are right that bringing back godwyn would make destined death lore irrelevant

[@LunaRyuu]

You, the Tarnished, are the one that tells Gideon about Miquella's whereabouts. He's going off what the player character tells him. He cant "confirm" anything because the info comes from YOU

[@eritas4330]

@@LunaRyuu you digging way to deep for this stuff. It’s said by literally the all knowing, the person you go to for info. Plus fia’s entire questline just disproves this theory entirely, you can also quite clearly see that Godwyns body is wearing the exact same clothes we see in the opening cutscene.

[@draw2death421]

Tbf gideon also calls Mohg a Lunatic but turns out Mohg was mind controlled.

[@ShardofWant]

Watch bonfires video of Miquellas face reveal he’s wearing the same ring as his corpse in Mohgwyn palace. It’s weird to have that detail on his model in the cutscene you can’t even see. The body inside is the same as the other soulless demigods, so it’s possible castle sol was never talking about Godwyn and he just ended up using one of his bastard brothers bodies.

[@adammorin-q8d]

One. I went to check videos compared the ring they look the same but their slightly different which could mean that all the demi gods got a similar ring. Two. Rahdan isnt Miquella's brother.

[@ShardofWant]

@@adammorin-q8d you gotta be stupid because Rahdahn and Miquella have the same father idiot. Rennala and Radagon had Rahdahn, and Radagon had Miquella with himself Marika. Like even without it being directly stated Rykard Ranni and Rahdahns thrones are all next to each other so you should know they’re all Radagon’s kids. All of the Demigods besides Godfrey’s kids are all at least half siblings. Also you know Miquella says lord brother at long last your returned as he arrives to ride on his brother back.

[@dragonch0ch0ch06]

@@adammorin-q8d yes he is they have the same father (radagon).

[@adammorin-q8d]

@@dragonch0ch0ch06 "father"

[@GabrielAraújocoelho-t4c]

@@adammorin-q8d father

[@Jaymetal95]

I don’t know if this holds up but I think that Godwin could have been Miquella’s original choice for a consort, but after trying and failing to resurrect him, decided on Radahn as a consort instead

[@yharnamiyhill787]

Based on the DLC and the nature of Numen's ability to merge, (aka: grafting), I speculate that Godwyn the Golden is also a Grafter. (His original corpse has a fish tail, and clam head.) This would make sense because Godefroy and Godrick practices grafting religiously. This might be the reason as to why Ranni and/or Marika targeted Godwyn to be slain. His corpse would be grafted to the roots of the ErdTree, poisoning it. The ErdTree would be poisoned with Death via root system; Marika smashes the Elden Ring; orders her children to fight for supremacy instead of uniting to mend the Ring; and had the Tarnish come back to also participate in the Shattering. It was all to annihilate rebel against Golden Order and the Elden Beast.

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

The body in the egg can’t be Godwyn, the Site of Grace is called the Cocoon of the Empyrean and Godwyn wasn’t an Empyrean. Maybe like Godwyn, Miquella could’ve created multiple bodies. Also people saying that with Godwyn dead in soul it would've been impossible for him to be Miquella’s consort of something but this is Elden Ring, surely there could've been some work around in a game where souls can be transferred and the concept of death itself can be removed from the world and a rune can be made from a harlot coupling with a corpse.

[@darkmatter69420]

Coccoon and body are two different words. The coccoon came from the haligtree. The haligtree is miquella's. Therefore. Its his coccoon. But that doesnt mean he is in it. Why would his body grow 10X in size and go from looking from a teenager to a skinned giant margit? Makes no sense. The body in the coccoon also has bleeding from a wound on his back. And a huge scar starting on his spine. Where godwyn was stabbed. "Surely there could've been some workaround" no. There couldnt be. The rune of death is permanent death. Its literally baked into the core of the story. Godwyn was killed by that rune. Its true death. We need the rune to kill the elden beast/radagon or else they'd just keep reviving to fight again just like you do. No workarounds are possible.

[@MyNameIsJaxon]

@@darkmatter69420 the lore says miquella was using the haligtree to overcome his curse of youth. That’s why he big

[@cy9nvs]

I still think it would've been much a much more interesting ending for Godwyn to be Miquelas consort. Got a new body for him in the form of Mohg, some magic shenanigans to bring back Godwyns soul, and BAM. I honestly don't know how to feel about Radahn being the consort and there being very little new information about Godwyn.

[@chrismurphy2119]

@@cy9nvs I was really really hoping to see him as the last boss

[@Verbmo]

Godwyn aside rahdan as the final boss is lame.. You literally had to fight him to access the DLC

[@JonatanSHOW1]

Got a new body for "HIM" him is gone! His soul is gone and there is no one to bring back...

[@JoseViktor4099]

Me too man. I wont complain for what we have (although a little Nerf would be nice) , but yes, I consider the Godwin backstory with the most potential to have a Huge conclusion, like using Part of its Soulless body to make a better consort and use new attacks or something like that.

[@Zapdos97]

Some magic shenanigans bringing his soul back would make destined death look weak.

[@galaxydragon1234]

I think the whole problem with this is the radahn thing. Miquella already decided BEFORE godwyns death that he would have radahn as consort

[@The_Crimson_Shogun]

I guess that flew over a bunch of heads. It's spelled out in the base game that Miquella just wanted to see Godwyn die a true death instead of becoming that ningyo-type create in Deaproot Depths. Meanwhile, the Remembrance of a God and a Lord blatantly says, "In their childhood, Miquella saw in Radahn a lord." Miquella's idea from the beginning was to make Radahn his Lord, not Godwyn. Additionally, "Lord Brother" seems to be a term of endearment or respect, not to be specific to one person.

[@lordofcinder8884]

Personally I think this whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of the lore by the whole community Yes miquella did want to resurrect godwyn soul but not to become his consort, it's to kill godwyn with body and end death blight curse, think about it why would miquella say please die a true death if he wants godwyn to be his consort? Also if death blight is such a huge deal why are there no attempts to stop it? That's why I think miquella only wanted to end deathblight curse by resurrecting and killing godwyn, maybe in a cut ending miquella was supposed to a good guy and by helping him we end death blight along with scarlet rot using his great rune and probably fight a resurrected godwyn as a secret final boss That's my personal theory

[@konger6069]

The site of grace in mohgs arena is called "Cocoon of the Empyrean" Unless theres something in the game that hints to Godwyn being or possibly becoming an Empyrean, it has to be miquella

[@konger6069]

and if the body in the cocoon is Godwyn then what the hell is the monster in Deeproot depths

[@myztiklee]

That Monster 😂

[@k077er0]

The cocoon is Miquellas, as shown in the intro cinematic. But that doesnt necessarily discredit the possibility that after Miquella was ripped out of it, a new body could've been put inside of it, you could still call it the "Cocoon of the Empyrean" because one resided in it initially.

[@pingcrimson6854]

@@konger6069 i feel like the grace name could be taken in a literal sense, it is definitely the ‘Cocoon of the Empyrean’, since it was Miquella’s to begin with, but with miquella’s self not actually being in it, you can potentially fit the idea that the body within the cocoon was replaced as a way to go between realms, allowing miquella to go within the realm himself

[@MikaMikaWhatever]

I'm interpreting it as the cocoon was made by Miquella but didn't have Miquella inside it. Mogh and his siblings didn't seem to know that Miquella wanted to revive Godwyn, only his followers in Castle Sol did.

[@Yking2077]

I hope Godwin at least shows up in Elden Ring 2.

[@milkshakescigarettes7513]

"Zanziwyn, forgive me."

[@GabagoolGang]

Elden Ring is a one off, we may get another DLC but not another sequel

[@chiyue5676]

@@GabagoolGang this DLC was originally planned to be multiple DLC releases. Miyazaki himself has confirmed that he does not plan to do anything more with the Elden Ring IP

[@bleeem]

How? the mf is dead as it gets, souls is nowhere to be seen, his body is so corrput its part of the world. unless we travel back in time we will never see him

[@GabrielAraújocoelho-t4c]

​@@bleeemtime travel is a valid possibility because of farum azula soo...

[@carlosguerrero__]

imagine miquella possessing godwyns body that shit wouldve been insane

[@bleeem]

what body? the fish body in the roots? i think yall dont know the lore tbh

[@carlosguerrero__]

@@bleeem yes that body is godwyns, did u even play the game?

[@skinnytimmy1]

​@@bleeem well radahn soul is supposedly in mohgs body but it just looks like radahns body lol. I'm sure miquella could give godwyn a lil makeover lol

[@NepSpookie]

@@skinnytimmy1 cant remove the deathblight

[@JackLuong]

@@skinnytimmy1 madeover form for P1 then his deadform for P2 is peak design

[@ensigur]

something i’ve been thinking about is that ranni killed godwyn’s soul so she could kill her body and be free of the greater will’s influence. But the mother of fingers lore reveals that the greater will had stopped contacting the world since before marika’s ascension. so does that mean Ranni “killed” godwyn for nothing?

[@Jaymetal95]

Interesting thought, honestly yeah probably. Ranni didn’t and couldn’t have known better though unless she somehow knew that the fingers were spreading good ol misinformation

[@Eyecyou64]

It's more that she wanted to shed her body and not her soul

[@brparis5964]

I saw someone comment how Godwyn cannot be in the DLC, because we bring him back. If you do Duskborn, he's reborn.

[@quietone2674]

I don't know. In the Duskborn ending I thought it looked like Marika's body turned male, but kept the golden hair, which I took to meaning that Fia had successfully rebirthed Godwyn and that he was the new vessel of the Elden Ring in that ending.

[@mihir2077]

"Sooooo everything seems to point towards Godwyn's resurrection and him as the final boss?" Fromsoft: Promised Consort Radahn

[@skinnytimmy1]

😂😂

[@mitch5944]

To be fair radahn makes sense with the lore since miquella admired him as a warrior growing up and always wanted him as a consort.

[@TheShadowOfHumanity]

Before the dlc where are you getting the idea that he wanted Radahn as a consort? No item description or ingame text ever refers to that until the dlc retcons.

[@mr.kingdice9127]

​@@TheShadowOfHumanity exactly, without the DLC, there's not a hint or a clue that Radahn was the one Miquella wanted. Almost everyone that played ER that I know personally were hoping for Godwyn as a boss, Gloam Eyed Queen, the Godskins, more about the Crucible and the Ancient Spirits, like damn, sooo much potential for more.

[@SunWarriorSolaire]

@@TheShadowOfHumanityradahns and mohgs bodies are the only demigod boss bodies that dont appear and malenia whispers to radahn in a trailer

[@RipTronx]

We need Godwyn and Gloom Eyed Queen in a second DLC. They HAVE to give us more, there stories just can’t end on nothingness..

[@CM-hx5dp]

The Gloam eyed queen is a footnote, Marika ganked her ass ages ago and she is gone. Godwyn is the prince of death now, the original being called Godwyn is dead as hell.

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

“They HAVE to give us more on the characters who were defeated by the time our story begun!” Lmao why would they do that? These characters are footnotes in the larger plot.

[@darkmatter69420]

GEQ is a nothing burger and godwyn literally has his own ending in fia's questline.

[@AmygdalasBalls]

@@darkmatter69420 nothing burger why? lol

[@darkmatter69420]

@AmygdalasBalls GEQ and the godskin apostles served destined death, maliketh defeated them and sealed away destined death. Which in turn stripped them of their overwhelming power. Their black flame was once the most formidable force in the lands between. The GEQ would require us to somehow relinquish destined death to her for her power to return. Until then, even if she is alive, she's not powerful enough to do anything. Technically if she did get destined death, then lore-wise she'd be more powerful than anyone else, as thats why it was sealed away in the first place. There's lots of history in these games that is added to make the world feel more alive. But cannot be expanded upon without extreme measures. Like a whole DLC. Badlands, land of reeds, the dragon god placidusax served under as the dragon lord in the once-thriving farum azula, GEQ, etc. There's so many routes that they can take the story. And some just have to be left to history. That's at least my take on it all. The GEQ return essentially means her trying to kill all gods. But you're the only one left, and it requires you to give up your most prominent feature, destined death. Why would you give her that ability just so you can take it back in a boss-fight?

[@ViaWhisker]

prolly why the death knights guarding godwyn's dead body have a sun ornament as there headwear

[@5purg]

Ansbach was the one who removed Miquella from the cocoon. It's was confirm by Leda. It happened when ansbach challenged Miquella but was charmed. After that it was him who removed Miquella from the cocoon not mogh.

[@sametekiz3709]

Ansbach is the goat.

[@zexris7005]

Lot of the commentators here are arguing whether it was lore-accurate to revive Godwyn or Radahn but most of you still forgot that it's fromsoft universe. Most of the lore is very vague and whole context of the story revolves around very little information they give us. It's more about making theories than actually having one. It's more about making hypotheses and never getting a true answer. There is no true answer to most of your theories. Of course we need to accept that, it is Radahn that we got since the dlc is fully delivered now. But still if they wanted to make Godwyn appear in the dlc, they would find lore-accurate ways to do this. It all seems just like a very lazy writing decision, also poor game design ( Elden doing it's most cardinal sin - still recycling bosses even for it's dlc final encounter). Disgusting, since Radahn from base game is much more cinematic and fun to play against (I enjoyed dlc last boss, but I prefer base game fight).

[@asgads]

I guess Godwyn will be the main baddy in elden ring 2. that sequel seems like a go after the sales numbers

[@JyotiDeka1989]

And that would be great.

[@asgads]

@@JyotiDeka1989 for sure

[@JyotiDeka1989]

​@@asgads An eclipse leading to the rebirth of Godwyn's soul would be an amazing spectacle and with the sales record of Elden Ring, I don't think FromSoftware would put down the idea for a sequel.

[@FishWithLipstick]

@@JyotiDeka1989 An eclipse is what i wanted for this DLC so bad, i wanted some eclipse at the end of the game that just wiped everything with deathblight with a crumbling divine gate, true metal. I wanted an orphan of kos type body horror thing with godwyn and its a shame we didnt get that in this DLC

[@Zapdos97]

He is gone and should stay gone. It would ruin Destined Death.

[@vincentbeton]

At least we did not have to see Goodwin the Goldeen

[@HasturTheKingInYellow]

Everyone wanted to see him. Redahn on the other hand not sure.

[@bigzero7720]

"Hi, I'm Saul Goodwin..."

[@crusaderpenguin5326]

@hekam I for one never wanted to see Godwyn. His soul is gone, and his death was an impactful catalyst that brings the story to where it is when we begin it. To bring him back would cheapen the whole concept of “Destined Death” and would as a result reduce the importance of Maliketh, the Rune of Death, Ranni, and the Black Knife Assassins.

[@HasturTheKingInYellow]

@@crusaderpenguin5326 it would Make more sense for Miquella to do this because of this same reason because his mother failed. To make the world a gentler place is just not a good enough reason to do all this and also charming people and choosing Radahn of all people...

[@skinnytimmy1]

​@@crusaderpenguin5326 godywn being the catalyst for all this is EXACTLY why we wanted him as the final boss. It would be like a full circle moment.

[@kingjohn8980]

We already know Godwyn’s body is in Deeproot Depths. We even go through a whole quest line with very convoluted steps in order to revive Godwyn for the Duskborne ending. Godwyn begin resurrected in the DLC just wouldn’t have made sense.

[@1.0xY.m0r0n]

How does that quest involve reviving Godwyn? As far as I knew it was just to get the mending rune of death so those that live in death would no longer be persecuted.

[@kingjohn8980]

@@1.0xY.m0r0n look back at the dialogue with Fia after giving her the curse mark. She talks about giving Godwyn a “second-illustrious life”.

[@UmbyWumby]

@@1.0xY.m0r0n because they made it up 🗣

[@kingjohn8980]

@@1.0xY.m0r0ngo back and listen to Fia’s dialogue. When you give her the curse mark, she talks about giving Godwyn a “second-illustrious life”

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@1.0xY.m0r0n 'reviving' isn't the best word for it but as Fia says "And it will surely stir within me. the new life of the golden prince, and first Dead of the demigods, as the rune of Those Who Live in Death." Godwyn becomes the mending rune you use to reintroduce destined death into the order. Godwyn is in effect being transformed into an alien enitity like the elden beast.

[@sebastianpascagaza8011]

It pains me to say it, but i believe this was the original story, but they wanted to do some sort of fan service, as a bunch of people kept saying they wanted to face prime Radahn... And FromSoft gave in. It was disappointing, to be honest.

[@faaarp56]

I wish we can fight or even see Godwin the golden

[@DeMut88]

I can understand that people would love to see Godwyn in the DLC, but first of all: Bringing him back would ruin the whole point, that he's dead and nothing can change that despite all the attempts. Second he lives in death, hes dead but still influence the world, hes not really there but still has an impact, there would be nothing special about living in death, when there would be no differences from being alive.

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

Yes exactly this is the whole point people refuse to accept.

[@Pooka_Beatz]

I always felt like the hair of miquella while sitting on radans shoulder reminded me of godwyn but maybe im just trippin

[@thatssometal358]

@@Pooka_Beatz on the money

[@shattermelon496]

i mean they are brothers

[@the_infinexos]

The closest we'll ever get to a Godwyn bossfight is those Death Knights, who were his personal guard

[@NeronActivations]

The way i interpreted the dlc and the final boss was that Miquella first wanted to make Godwyn his consort, attempting to bring him back but ultimately failing, so he settled with Radahn, who was strong enough to keep the throne and kind enough for Miquella’s age, i would also like to believe that Godwyn was a better candidate that Radahn in both heart and strength (Radahn is only called the strongest during the shattering), in order for this theory to work the end cutscene of the dlc must occur during the shattering,this would give us a reason Malenia and Radahn fought and her line “Miquella awaits thee, promised consort” i believe proves this. P.s this might also give us a reason Radahn rejected the offer, Miquella’s age would have no war :)

[@RandomPerson-qv1lh]

I imagine the reason why miqella fused mogh and radahn is to create a replacement godwyn. Basically as mogh and godwyn are true full brothers in flesh while the ability of Radahn to inspire true loyalty from others and kindness is similar to what i assume Godwyn has... Basically he has no interest with Mogh nor Radahn, he just wants a perfect Godwyn replacement. I wouldnt be surprised if Miquella tried to mold the 'fusion' to be more like Godwyn overtime discarding bits of Radahn that doesnt fit his idea of the perfect Lord Brother Consort .

[@ChiraqGoblin]

I really want to fight this Enemy as a Boss I just like how unsettling the Look is ,0:12 just imagine turning around and seeing this staring at you 💀

[@myztiklee]

10:29 Basilisks eyes have eclipses… nice 😏

[@swheeler7148]

His soul is dead, you can't resurrect someone without a soul.

[@hugopiegay2822]

Bro it's a videogame, you still can make Godwyn resurrect

[@swheeler7148]

@@hugopiegay2822 yes it's a video game, but it's one with very established rules with in the lore. I also believe that failing at his pursuits is possibly what helped push Miquella to such drastic actions, He couldn't grow the tree, he couldn't fully heal his sister and he couldn't revive his brother with his current level of power. If Miquella's curse is to forever be stunted, it's not out of the realm of reason to assume this applies to his pursuits as well.

[@hugopiegay2822]

@@swheeler7148 i agree, but fighting a fanfiction Radhan is pretty lame, no mention of Godwyn THE PRINCE OF DEATH in a whole Death Land like the shadow realm feel pretty weird (except those 2 death knight of course), I would prefer a fresh unique boss for the final boss, even if it goes against the lore... And with Godwyn that would be a perfect full circle in my opinion

[@swheeler7148]

@@hugopiegay2822 I don't disagree, having something to do with Godwyn other than those random dungeons would have been awesome. I was definitely very surprised by it being Radahn and definitely felt like the memory we get to watch and the ending were a little anti climactic.

[@wntr6588]

@@hugopiegay2822fighting a fan fiction version of godwyn would be as silly as fighting radhan. It breaks established lore. Yes we can all admit it would be cool but if from soft added things purely because they were “cool” the game wouldn’t be as good.

[@kallitass2166]

Just had thought that would maybe support ur theory cause if u think about it the place where u find both mogh and the cocoon that transports u in to the shadow realm is the Mohgwyn Palace so it would make sense that the the body is actually godwyns and reason for mough say that he wants the moghwyn dynasty

[@xItachii]

None of the dlc made sense to me until I watched this video. Best explanation I’ve yet to see. Good work piecing it together!

[@halfblood_drag0n]

and everyone said i was crazy hoping godwyn would be in it

[@belmerrios5577]

Godwyn is very dead, his soul is no longer reachable, only his weird corpse is on the lands between...

[@dullboy8875]

the amount of people that are surprised that godwyn, the demigod whose soul was completely obliterated from existence by destined death, isn’t in the DLC is mind-blowing.

[@Banbro88]

Not at all lol you're delusional to say that. So many was pointing towards SOMETHING about Godwyn its not even funny. Unless it's included in Elden Ring 2 or another DLC, you can't possibly say that lol. Radahn makes even less sense yet you're riding Miyazaki for this mid final boss.

[@dullboy8875]

@@Banbro88 I didn’t even say anything about radahn, at all, which tells me you’re coming at this emotionally which is to be expected from people like you in this community tbh. i only mentioned that anyone thinking that someone with no soul, and who’s body is in the base game already, would appear in the land of shadows is really dumb. should we have gotten lore? yes, but a final boss fight? it would create more questions than answers but most importantly completely break the lore of destined death and the entire shattering. it was never going to happen and to think otherwise is retarded.

[@onyxonikuma4878]

What's mind blowing is making a character with so much ambiguous lore that goes nowhere just for the dlc to be a reused character because of popularity, on top of that there is nothing, nothing hinting towards miquella picking radahn. Its completely shoehorned in last minute due to people loving radahns fight.

[@darkmatter69420]

​@@Banbro88radahn literally had a hit out on him from malenia ISSUED BY MIQUELLA. She was sent to kill his ass because godwyns soul is unusable, not to spar for fun. Its crazy how you thought you knew what you're talking about but instead just showed you dont pay attention at all.

[@AmygdalasBalls]

show me one instance of godwyn’s soul being “obliterated”

[@Sprech41]

I was so disappointed by the final boss just being Radahn again. really kinda came out of nowhere, even after the conversation with Ansbach. Godwyn would have been such a better fit

[@Wulk]

Sorry but his body is under stormbail castle that siren looking thing is Godwin it wouldn't make sense that he has 2 bodys

[@KingScxr]

Instant notification click, this has been the question on my mind since I completed the dlc

[@Wyrdist]

Not only is he dead, but he died in such a weird specific way. Him returning in any way other than his mermaid corpse in Deeproot Depths would be purely fanservice and would make way less sense than Rahdan. I have my own criticisms about the dlc, but Miquella choosing him and by extension, the him returning and having the game do more with his character is a good thing for me. I always thought it was kinda lousy for Rahdan to be hyped up as much as he was, only for him to have a boss fight that’s not fitting at all for the “strongest Demi god”.

[@eepersneepers7872]

Well he was the strongest demigod. We just fight him when he has no more wit left to him. Perpetually stuck on a horse for his feet have rotted off. Having to eat the corpses he slain in battle however many years it was when the shattering happened. He's handicapped right now due to being eaten from within from the scarlet rot. So yes he was the strongest demigod, we just never fight him when he was in his prime. Even in the DLC, he's not Starscourge Radahn because Miquella revived him when he wanted to take Radahn as his Consort. Which happened to be pre-Starcourge

[@HasturTheKingInYellow]

I think it's the opposite. I think bringing back Rodahn was a fan service because people wanted to fight the prime radahn. And Miyazaki just agreed maybe.

[@eepersneepers7872]

@hekam I feel it was more premeditated than anything. Notice that the only 2 Demigods corpses we don't see are Mohgs and Radahns. Godwyn is beneath the Erdtree. Morgott is in the Elden Throne Arena. Rykard is the head in the volcano. Malenia is the flower. And Godrick is getting curbstomped by Gostoc. Another thing is when Mohg dies he does a variation of the "Let Us Go Together" emote. Even though I feel like it came put of nowhere with no lore. I think they did envision this

[@alphasierrabravo5905]

@@eepersneepers7872 nice find on his death animation and the emote! really nice find!

[@Wyrdist]

@@eepersneepers7872 I agree with the last guy. Nice find, but in the midst of all the dlc hype, Miyazaki said this is entire storyline was planned but scrapped due to time constraints. Still a very good observation tho, but I feel like Miyazaki deciding to charge you for their more or less poor time management reinforces the fact that it shouldn’t have costed $40 as opposed to 15-20

[@Brendonherring522]

Nope. This theory is firmly refuted in the lore. The body is Miquella's. Miquella required blood transfusion from Mohg in order to bypass the erdtree upon his death. We know that the rune of death was eliminated from the Order upon its creation, which allowed Marika to co-opt the cycle of life and death via the process of erdtree burial. However, as the Omen were seen as having tainted, impure blood by the Order (particularly Mohg, as he had communed with the Formless Mother), they weren't able to participate in this process. Miquella took advantage of this in order to allow his soul to be transported to the Lands of Shadow upon his death, where we know that all manner of death ends up. This same effect is presumably how we are able to get to the Lands of Shadow, by touching him and thereby coming into contact with the Omen blood that Mohg had suffused him with. Although, we can get super weird with this (we'd gotten mohg's blood injected into our finger via Varre's quest already) so the mechanics are superfluous with respect to this discussion. Moving on. As for the body's appearance (since we can see that he had retained his childlike form when he was pulled out of the haligtree), his body clearly has the same skin tone as Mohg and other Omen, with the enlarging of his hand. And finally, the nails in the coffin for this theory are twofold: 1. Obviously Fia is lying with Godwyn's body, which is still there throughout the entirety of the DLC. We use it to enter Godwyn's dream, where we do battle with Fortissax. 2. The model in the cocoon does not bear the cursemark of death, which was carved upon Godwyn's skin as his soul was killed. The body is Miquella's. The end! P.S. I do genuinely enjoy the lore discussion that's arising from the DLC and naturally, people have to throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks, otherwise we'll never come to a solid conclusion on the full story. However, while I don't want to seem like I'm being a baby about it, it's bugged me how many "theories" people are churning out without considering the base game's lore at all, or seemingly without vetting them against anything. Anyhow, let's keep the discussion going! Let's talk about how the Fell God is a SNAKE!

[@Demarini71691]

People want Godwyn to be something more so bad when his story is done. His soul is dead and him coming back would be a huge issue not just narratively, but Fia's questline would be torched. I don't know if I've ever seen a community lose their shit like this over something so obvious. Just because Miquella wanted to try and revive Godwyn, or put him to rest, doesn't mean he would be successful. If anything given this dude's track record he would almost certainly fail because he's never been successful at anything. If Godwyn ever came back the rune of death becomes meaningless, the entire plot of Elden Ring would have been built off a lie. That obviously wasn't going to happen.

[@Banbro88]

I know where Godwyn is! In the cut content because they were lazy.

[@alphasierrabravo5905]

Why would Marika make ANY sort of a CONFESSION to the grandmother at shaman village? "An affair from which The seduction and betrayal led to the birth of gold." What if Marika secret was that she cheated on Godfrey and had Godwyn? I beleive with a dragon, hence his tail. Note we NEVER EVER see Godwyns lower body, even in the intro cutscene of the game. Its only until the VERY END of Fia's questline that the truth is revealed about him. The only Omen children were, Morgott and Mogh, but she then cast them aside like dirt. So why wasnt Godwyn an omen as well? Also note that the ENTIRE reasoning for Miqella's crusade was because of Godwyn. The statues at Farum Azula are of Godwyn coddling Miqella and Melania. I personally beleive that after beating Radan, we see Miqella talking with someone who he wants to be his consort. I believe this IS Godwyn he is speaking to NOT Radan. People fail to also implement the fact that Godwyn was EXTREMELY powerful. So much so that he ended the war with dragons. This powerful warrior is what Miqella needed but Radan is just the second best thing.

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

The remembrance you get after defeating consort radahn explicitly tells us that it was radahn miquella admired and wanted as his consort. It’s not implied or hinted at, it’s told straight up. That is the truth. «Nah I think he meant godwyn bro» well that’s your fanfiction at this point

[@jasona4445]

@@alphasierrabravo5905 the statue is at the haligtree not farum azula

[@alphasierrabravo5905]

@@jasona4445 no. There is one in Farum

[@Sogrub]

For everyone saying that Godwyn couldn't be revived because his soul died: Mohg's soul also died and even so Miquella revived his body with Radah's soul, so no, it wouldn't be impossible to revive Godwyn, especially since it is implied that an eclipse can give Godwyn a soul

[@IdleWandering]

@@Sogrub No Mohg soul didn’t die his body was used as a vessel for another soul. Godwyn had a curse carved into his body with the rune of death that killed his soul. Reincarnation can’t take place if you have no soul, the only reason why you see Godwyns body across the lands between and shadows is because his body was given a erdtree Burial. His corpse is still alive and infecting the erdtree that why you have death root now and those that live in death.

[@CM-hx5dp]

The eclipse did not fucking work, and im pretty sure it never would have.

[@theresnothinghere1745]

Mogh soul didn't die in the same way as Godwyn, Mogh died regularly so his souls is still in the erd tree's cycle. Godwyn died via destined death, his soul is not in the erd tree's cycle of life. The deaths aren't comparable at all. Of course Mogh/Radahn can be revived we literally do the same with summonable ashes and revive those dead to fight in our stead.

[@jessiellanes3004]

Omen are Different since omen are related to the crucible where a cycle of nature Radahn died like being judged in underworld While Godwyn soul died to be never to be reborn or no longer exist or maybe got thrown to another dimension something like that

[@MrNuclearz]

Having fucking Radahn again as the final boss and not Godwyn is the biggest L in the history of the souls franchise.

[@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750]

Godwyn in the Totally Real Second DLC: pillar men theme as he starts to get up.

[@rsmith8113]

I would say, Godwyn should have been resurrected but as an abomination and he would consume Miquella and become the God of Death. That would have been metal!

[@LordofGodsandMen]

I was very sad about that but it’s okay the dlc is awesome as is

[@zaegva]

If Miquella wants Godwyn to die a true death, then it makes no sense for him to be the consort.

[@varsedo]

@@zaegva that’s untrue because if Godwyn does die a true death then Miquella can easily revive him.

[@zaegva]

@@varsedo in my book, true death means, that there is no resurrection or anything possible after that.

[@varsedo]

@@zaegva didn’t Radahn technically die a true death?

[@m4monitor979]

@varsedo Not exactly, more so just killing his body, but his soul is still intact. Godwyn, on the other hand, died to true death where in his soul was truly destroyed.

[@varsedo]

@@m4monitor979 I’m trying to understand something. Marika shattered The Elden Ring. Wouldn’t that undo the immortality she placed on the Lands Between?

[@baraldogrant]

Was hoping for clearer lore on Torrent too.

[@AmygdalasBalls]

@@baraldogrant did they even say anything at all?

[@baraldogrant]

@@AmygdalasBalls not to my knowledge 😔

[@lordofshades9852]

​@@baraldograntwe get a little I'd say, more so context to something we see. In the abyssal woods, Torrent refuses to answer your call due to fear. In the area we can find an item that states that even spirits die to this. When we get a certain ending, torrent's ring crumbles to dust

[@baraldogrant]

@lordofshades9852 I knew about the other things but not the thing saying "spirits die from this too" which thank you. That's cool and I didn't know that. Appreciate you.

[@ghostlyswat12]

I feel like Elden ring needs another dlc not a expansion but perhaps a more dark souls 3 like dlc linear to finish off the story Something they can make a lot quicker without a open world

[@irishspartanstudios]

HUGE missed opportunity to update Fia's questline conclusion. As in her ending once you bund her rune to the Elden Ring. I can just imagine Godwyn swelling, with renwed strength, and subsuming the Erd Tree like strangling bramble. Less related, but you know that theory of how Elden Ring is the start of any of the other Soulsborne games? Well I can imagine Godwyn growing to become something similar in deisgn to the Old One from Demon Souls, just this tree-like gray mass with many branches and a fierce appetite for life in a world chocked in fog.

[@jimsecretarchive]

Wasn't Godwyn resurrected in Fia's ending as a rune ?

[@imperiallray7933]

Im so glad Im not the only one that fully expected godwyn to be miquella's consort

[@CJusticeHappen21]

My theory is that Godwyn and Ranni were wedded, as a means of further consolidating their two families when Radagon became Marika's next Husband. Ranni had Godwyn killed as a means of breaking their relationship. "Til Death Do Us Part" and so forth.

[@IdleWandering]

@@CJusticeHappen21 you’re theory is somewhat similar to mines, but in my theory they are not married but Godwyn is Ranni’s promised consort by the 2 fingers, it makes sense that the two fingers would decide who each Empyrean would need as a Lord to become a god and Ranni hated the influence of the 2 fingers that’s why the plot of the black knives happened which caused the shattering which lead to Miquellia becoming the chosen one the be a god and his chosen consort was Rahdan.

[@mythzel898bet2]

I dont think its ranni,its ancient dragon Fortissax(if you believe Fortissax is female since there is no female or male pronouns just an it in the item description and lansseax being the sister of fortissax)because since godwyn is the Scion of the golden bough, meaning the same level as morgott and mohg,and since we dont know any other demigod in that same level other than godwyn and the omen twins,well how do you think the golden lineage is many until it reach Godrick?also Godrick speak to a dead dragon, calling it kindred,more evidence that the golden lineage have ancient dragon or atleast draconic blood

[@ItachiUchiha_1724]

1:42 i knew Godwyn was not going to be in the dlc Based of the title Miquella the Kindly He is not miquella the unalloyed He is not Miquella the fundamentailist We know he Abandoned his body his strength his thoughts his fears And most importantly his love Aka st Trina sge is the one who cares for her sister malenia she is the one who cares for Godwyn Godwyn was abandoned Malenia was abandoned Mogh was forsaken Miquella divested himself everything including his reason and morality Absbach said it "miquella fails to ubderstand the humiliation he has done" St trina says it will not work what he wants to create St trina says "You must kill miquella... Grant him forgiveness" Why forgiveness? He has does nothing wrong?? Unless he has forsaken mogh malenia godwyn Miquella is repeating marika's steps but in the worst way He will force kindness and those he cannot save he will abandon (st trina and malenia) or absorb (radahn and mogh) His first act if we did not kill radahn and miquella was probably to erase anyone who could not be Controlled And force those who live to be kindly puppets And i all i can think about is its no different from marika and order except one crucial thing...mercy and love Marika could have destroyed every omen as they are related to hornsent But allowed the babies who survived the horn cutting To live Allowed royal born to live Allowed the jar warriors to live When she has the power and right to erase them If the omen ever learned if the hornsent and the old ways world And learned of the previous orders extremism Marika's people where tortued massarcered and used as Ingredients to make jar warriors And the glue to make them live No wonder marika killed hundreds of hornsent and betrayed the old order and its extreme beliefs No wonder she sent messmer to kill them all As they where all guilty for letting it happen But its a act she cannot stand to think about or see So messmer was sent on a one e Way trip As he was different problem he had no grace and Held a Abyssal snake a potential threat to her and her world But marika does not know Messmer tamed the Abyssal snake Not the other way around

[@henkespankme2240]

Godwyns death was soul alone, and with the erdtree still in place when the eclipse ritual happened, it wasn't a failure. But the tarnished was resurrected using godwyns soul. Hence why we don't die as tarnished but other tarnished do. Theory*

[@samplexample]

lol that’s not Godwyn in the cocoon. It’s Miquella. It’s called the cocoon of the Emperian after all. Godwyn’s body is still alive, at Deeproot Depths, and he exists as part of the world. So the eclipse ritual failed, and Radahn was the next best thing.

[@AmygdalasBalls]

lame!!

[@dyllanaldridge1044]

Interestingly, in the final cutscene, Miquella says, "lord brother...promise me you'll be my consort" leaving it ambiguous as to which brother this is. Additionally, Miquella specifically says if "we honor our part of the vow", implying that Miquella sees himself as part of a group (possibly himself and his bewitched) working towards bringing Miquella and his "lord brother" together. Edit: additionally, in the initial cutscene of the King Consort Radahn fight, Miquella says, "my loyal blade...and champion of the festival...both your deeds will ever be praised in song. Now, the vow will be honoured, and my lord brother's soul to return". It's possible Miquella is referring to three people in this statement. He might be initially referring to his loyal blade, Mohg, and the champion of the festival, Radahn, then his lord brother, Godwyn.

[@disgrunty]

Possibly Miquella is referring to himself and St Trina? Or himself and Malenia? If Godwyn's soul could be brought back, I think Marika probably would have done it herself. He was her golden child, after all, and she would have been at least as powerful pre-Shattering as Miquella became at the Gate of Divinity. I think Destined Death puts its victims beyond the reach of even a god, hence why it was so feared. If they were killed by any other method then Marika could have just brought them back. I think in the cutscene, he's referring to Radahn as his loyal blade, and _we_ are the champion of the (Radahn) festival. He's saying that both our deeds and Radahn's will be praised in song. It's part of him trying to talk us down.

[@dyllanaldridge1044]

@@disgrunty You make several fair points, thank you for the feedback! I'm thinking the most likely conclusion is that FromSoft left the language intentionally vague for people like me with crackpot theories :)

[@disgrunty]

@@dyllanaldridge1044 Crackpot theories are fun!

[@weebhunter9305]

What if the Hornsent succeeded into creating a Saint? Marika, we know that was their whole idea behind the jars and besides Marika there isn't another (Miko) shaman or maiden whichever translation you accept for now, that had an alter ego. Which is Radagon and remember this. Every child of Marika and Radagon specifically had some influence or alter ego. Messmer was influenced by a flame and then a abyssal serpent consumed it, Malenia was influenced by an Outer God, Miquella who straight up had an alter ego St.Trina, and since Melina is implied by Messmer flame that it is his younger sister possibly had the Gloam Eyed Queen which Marika defeated giving us a reason as to why Melina doesn't have a body since the Gloam Eyed Queen was killed and Melina was the alter ego. That's why they talked about being betrayed by Marika, they think they were doing good by the atrocities committed trying to create a saint only to succeed and Marika played her role until she had the opportunity to take power and become a God. And to explain the rest of Demigods is easy, at that point Marika and Radagon were separated Marika and Godfrey had Godwym, Morgott and Mohg. While Radagon went and had Ranni, Rycard and Radahn. And the Demigods mentioned above only had traits/roots of their respective parent. I'll even retract what I said about them being separated they might have had control when they were having their respective children.

[@marcus22greene]

it would feel like every foe of Marika have defeated or sealed away, has in way have been reborn as her children.

[@th3thatguy631]

I dont think Melina is the alter of The Gloam Eyed Queen, simply because of gender. Marika and Radagon are male and female, same as Miquella and St. Trina. Theres a start of a pattern there without any further evidence to show that an alter may be of the same gender i think its safer to assume that Melina simply is; The Gloam Eyed Queen. Also note that Messmer has his right eye missing while Melina has her left eye... "Gloamy"? The eyes could very well be a method of containing otherworldly and "unholy" magic. Both Melina and Messmer also contain a form of fire magic, which i believe to be associated with the Frenzied Flame. The only two ways of burning the erdtree is either using the frenzied flame or having melina sacrifice herself. Messmer also has the ability to burn down the shadowroot or whatever its called in the dlc. Then its revealed that marika fucked the Frenzied Flame dude in the dlc and that Messmer and therefor Melina may have been born from Her and the Frenzied Flame fella. Note the Frenzied Flame also has alot of Eyeball imagery Is the fire magic possessed by Messmer and Melina a genetic form of the Frenzied Flame? I think so

[@weebhunter9305]

@@th3thatguy631 Lol, no the Frenzy Flame at no point is able to burn down the Erdtree by itself, even if WE go down in the capital we still use the Fire the giants left, also although there is a pattern there is also no evidence saying that an Alter Ego can't be of the same gender, after all what the Hornsent did was to put bodies together with the bodies of Shamans/Numen. As we also know Radagon is Marika and when they both do the shaka shaka guess how their kids come out? Cursed Miquella and Malenia, Messmer now is a confirmed case as well being cursed with fire and the abyssal serpent, and in his own flame description he had a younger sister who bore visions of flame. Which flame? We see it in game which flame Melina can manipulate. Also my speculation on Melina having an alter ego is pretty simple, Melina at no point uses Black Flame/Destine Death/God Slaying Flame but remember what she promised to deliver to us in the Frenzy Flame Ending? That's right Destined Death and that's just a different name they have given to it.

[@OBS3RV3R]

I dont know if anyone else noticed it but there is also a 3rd godwyn corspe/cadaver thingies in the Jagged Peak near the area where you fight the first Jagged Peak Drake and it is half broken. I havent seen anyone talk about that and only just the two death knight catacombs

[@Jermstuckonp3rcs]

Goldwyn should of been the final boss not a re used boss