Scrolls-Likes: The Unexpected Rise of a New Genre of RPG

[@Tonesville]

Thanks for the recommendations guys! Dread Delusion was not mentioned because I already made a full review of it! Check it out in my other videos if you're curious. As for Enderal, stay tuned. This one needed its own special video 👀

[@justincooksrad]

Not that serious lol ​@@Synin-p2l

[@greedowins]

The more I see of Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, the more it reminds me of Skyrim, and hopefully it has good exploration and allows character customization - potentially checking all 4 criteria except for your character's starting point as Henry.

[@luffis1985]

Have you checked out the Requiem mod for Skyrim. It makes Skyrim play more like Daggerfall/Morrowind. In general for anyone looking for scrolls-like game mechanics, they should check out that mod. It gets it right.

[@nicholasmorgan7609]

I can't wait for the Wayward Realms. Hoping LeFay and Peterson haven't lost their touch.

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

The ability to play in both first and third person is critically important to me in ES games. I also know a lot of other people who play third person, and some only play third person. So it annoys me when people who only play first person try to claim that's a mainstay of the game and crucial to what it is. No, not for me and many others it isn't. Anyway, I liked the video otherwise. 🙂

[@CoffeeDrinkerKim]

Really wish “Scrolls Likes” were more common because Bethesda keep dropping the ball.

[@storkyfallout6516]

Starfeild was the "Fine, I'll do it myself." Moment for the scrolls like games. I hold no hope for tes 6

[@infebris]

@@storkyfallout6516comparing starfield to tes is like comparing pencils and candy, it doesnt make any sense.

[@WooShell]

If TES6 becomes another Starfield, Bethesda are done for.

[@YoutubeDictatorship2024]

Bethesda is dead boys. Let us carry on through these trenches until the sun hits our face once again. Let him go, may Bethesda Rest In Peace The lead director for the creation of environments for Bethesda is gone now as well. 14 years with the company. He actually made his own game. It’s like a stealth archer game, first person, from my understanding. Looks decent

[@michaellane5381]

The real problem is nobody has made a world like TES, except oddly things like Pokemon or Zelda What this means is that no-one has a Skyrim incoming, because Skyrim was basically: Upscale graphics for races, weapons, quests, dungeons etc everybody already loves, they just had to get mildly creative on dungeons and story. They had the lore, they knew what generally wasn't working... They left out much of the game for modders to complete. Everyone else can basically only afford an OG Runescape without graphics or needs to reduce scale to get a game to release without running out of cash or executives fucking it up before release by forcing rushed content.

[@arekkubiak5957]

One of the devs for Fall of Avalon here, difficulty is in a quite unfinished stage right now and these spikes are not intended; balance is being heavily worked on for future patches tho

[@jackcouch8322]

Mr Dev, I’ve been enjoying your game quite a bit. Keep at it! (Also money needs balancing, I feel like I have the entire economy in my pants at all times)

[@stegosaurusthethird2804]

Thank you for making a really cool game :D

[@moonie9000]

It's excellent so far, man, well done. It's putting Bethesda to shame.

[@henseltbrumbleburg3752]

Being as he mentioned Metro, I'd love if you guys looked at how that game handled it's difficulty. You can die in 2/3 hits, but enemies go down the same. I hope you're genuine, love the game!

[@sentimentalmariner590]

Loving it so far but please bring back upgrading armor!

[@shieldbearerstudios4511]

Hey!! Thank you so much for including my game (Bloodline) in this list. What a huge honor! Your main criticism of the game (being that I added another kingdom before ironing out the existing one) is 100% agreed. In fact, the past few updates have been refocusing the trajectory of the game so that kingdom 1 gets fully ironed out before moving on to other kingdoms! (: I can’t thank you enough for your patience and understanding when it comes to the current status of the game, as this is my first ever game and I’m still learning so, SO much every day. 😁🙏

[@Tonesville]

I worried that I was too harsh during that section, so I'm glad you agree! Keep up the great work man! Also, whenever you implement Tomb of the Betrayer, It would be really cool to see some verticality or platforming/jumping puzzles requiring the grappling hook or wall-running. The movement really is one of my favorite aspects of the game!

[@ingrudmessenger1193]

Thank you very much for makaing a game

[@WidjacK42]

Your game is a breath of fresh air and definitely one of the best gaming experiences I had this year! I highly recommend everyone who are even a little bit curious to try it! Yes it's still rough around the edges but I feel you are one of those rare developers who understand the fact that before anything else, games should be fun. I can't count anymore the amount of times I almost died laughing in front of my PC 🤣 Keep up the amazing work!

[@Rissen_]

Out of the games listed yours stuck out most to me and made me want to play, The movement seems to be the strongest point so far, it looks like you know what youre doing so keep up the good work i cant wait to see what you do with it :)

[@nathanc939]

Your game looks like Runescape 3 in first person, with incrideble movement and not tick system. The art style and graphics are very reminescent of RS3, but also a few features looked like they were inspired by RS. Basically, the feel is get is if an epic platformer had a baby with the TES franchise and Runescape. It looks great, keep going!

[@PhodexGames]

Cool to see my game in such a list. Some people get it wrong, but you nailed what Raidborn is all about! I confess that The Elder Scrolls is likely 80% of the reason I wanted to make games and I think you can tell when playing my game :D I also listen to an unhealthy amount of TES soundtracks when building levels or doing other low brain activity tasks ^^

[@Tonesville]

>late night Secunda work hours

[@nikolajpopovs3844]

I just found out about it from Tonnesville! It’s freaking awesome, I put in on my wish list and going to get it come salary around 25th ! Can’t wait !

[@richardgrayson432]

Would you ever add in third person camera?

[@comradestannis]

​@richardgrayson432 Not me.

[@PhodexGames]

@@Tonesville Exactly haha :D

[@Tom-ahawk]

Get Scrolls-like trending

[@hackspawn1]

it's called an rpg

[@MrSignman65]

​@hackspawn1 Ah yes, because Baldur's Gate, Elden Ring, and the Witcher are all very similar to Elder Scrolls.

[@hackspawn1]

@@MrSignman65you're right, man, if only subgenres like arpg, crpg, and jrpg existed

[@MrSignman65]

@@hackspawn1 Ah, true. Rather convenient that those terms spawned into existence at the dawn of time and were never created by people who needed to adequately describe things. Elder Scrolls has a multitude of small differences to other RPGs that aren't well-described by traditional subgenres, hence the need for more. Though defending that point is nigh-impossible and boils down to "a certain je ne sais quoi." that ES games have. Subgenres are invented to categorize things that aren't already well categorized. If "ESRPG" or similar naming conventions are better for you than "Scrolls-Like" then use that.

[@hackspawn1]

@@MrSignman65 it's a first person fantasy rpg with good environmental story telling, it's not hard to define at all. but it's still an rpg there is no need to create new terms for it, it's not different enough from existing ones to warrant it

[@raphaelperry8159]

When Bethesda announced Elder Scrolls Online I instantly assumed that would be their excuse to never release Elder Scrolls 6. I did not realise that constantly re-releasing Elder Scrolls 5 would be their actual excuse instead.

[@shadowswithin702]

I do very much enjoy Elder scrolls online, and was a beater for the early game builds. But I do understand it's not for everyone, and yes keep fiddling with Skyrim is really bad for modders.

[@BoneWalker]

​@@shadowswithin702My favorite thing to come about from eso has to be the "I need a hero" edit of that one high rock expansion teaser.

[@KP-uc1ez]

When ESO first came out, I played it like a traditional TES game and got BORED after a month or two. Then I came back, got into pvp, and played for several years lol. Ahh, the pvp was pretty fun. THAT was years ago, though. Can't believe it's still alive. Likely on life support at this point.

[@powahwave8915]

I like elders scrolls online never ending content. I like when mmos lets you keep getting stronger to the point where you can solo some group dungeons like ultima online

[@cwolfxuk-other]

03:20 Lore, lore is so important. In game books, mentions of cultural events, etc. One of the big things missing from Starfield , the "books" in that were a joke.

[@jackpitman15]

Most of the books were the first few pages of irl books lmao

[@harrydubois5951]

The terminal text was literally recycled across different planets, which was pretty immersion-breaking. Not that the terminal stuff was any good from what I saw. I understand that they're procedurally generated, but damn. I wish the scope was a little smaller and we got more handcrafted content instead. I don't think I'm going to bother with the new DLC. The game is too fundamentally flawed to be saved at this stage.

[@cwolfxuk-other]

@harrydubois5951 yup. Such a shame. Skyrim got this so right, Starfield went backwards hard.

[@Theopheus]

Lore is overrated. I like good solid world building and background, but when you start looking into the details of Elder Scrolls, it's convoluted as hell.

[@harrydubois5951]

@@Theopheus Thank you

[@destero8853]

"Scrolls Likes" need to become a thing! Couldn't agree more on your 1st person and 3rd person take!

[@jetpilledmyron2056]

Lowkey I've been thinking of a Scrolls Like for years now, tho for TTRPG and Skirmish/Wargaming

[@taylrgng]

Avowed is looking pretty good

[@Pan_Z]

Really? I thought the camera stipulation was arbitrary. Many people play TES games mainly in third-person. TES are open-world RPGs with an emphasis on exploring a richly written, detailed, and interactive setting. Not every RPG lets you enter *every single* house and throw the kitchen utensils about.

[@slicksilver9441]

​​@@taylrgngI seen someone post the whole game? I thought it released already? Edit to say nevermind....I see it's not 1.0 yet

[@taylrgng]

@slicksilver9441 yeah it comes out next year February, I think? it looks hella good. and it's obsidian so I can trust it

[@jordanarsenault3952]

i actually think a underrated reason why cyberpunk is so good is because of its first person perspective; ive really been missing good first person games no offence to space marine and elden ring

[@Ichthyodactyl]

I do, however, wish that we got a proper 3rd person camera a la Skyrim. If for no other reason than to check out my own drip in world occasionally.

[@Here_is_Waldo]

The lack of first-person games that aren't shooters is disappointing.

[@Verchiel_]

First time i finished a playthrough of elden ring (first half of this year, it took a while) was with the first person mod. Including the dlc. it was awesome, the vanilla design choices aside. Still an 8/10 game for me but if i played through it in third person i probably would have given it 7/10 by the end, because i know how abysmal the camera controls can be. The mod also includes an optional power up for Kick ash of war to make it as powerful as in Dark Messiah of might and magic.

[@swissarmyknight4306]

Pilgrim, you must join us in Darktide, where we purge the heretic from first-person perspective IN HIS HOLY NAME! The melee combat is the best FPS melee I've ever played, and the ranged combat is very solid. The classes are extremely fun: Ogryn (barbarian/fighter), Veteran (ranged/generalist), Zealot (cleric/berserker), and Psyker (offensive caster). The foul legions of Nurgle pollute Atoma, but we chastise them with chainsword and bolter, FOR HIM ON TERRA!

[@Honed-]

it got compaired to scrolls because of the skilling. i 100% skilling is what makes a scrolls game over anything else.... and then they nuttered it with the 2.0 update lmao... now its just its own game.

[@monolalia]

What I miss most in many (if not most) similar RPGs is the immersive, interactable environment. Not only are there snow, rain, storms (and various mods like Wet & Cold and Frostfall) - everything (not quite) from potions, weapons, ingredients to clothes, tools, tableware and even bodies can be taken, dropped anywhere, moved, thrown; it’ll semi-realistically bounce of walls or float in water. This is not as deep as it could be: potions *could* break and affect whoever/whatever is nearby; torches *could* be used as weapons; fire *could* eventually burn down obstructions or ropes; water *could* make unprotected books/notes/scrolls unreadable; etc. - but that the surroundings aren’t just 3D wallpaper still adds greatly to my sense of immersion. Ultima 5-8 in particular went in that direction but a smattering of “physics dungeon crawlers” aside most modern games don’t… so sad. :) :(

[@Verchiel_]

Yup! The fact you can just interact with so much clutter be it various items or just bits of the environment make it so much more engaging especially in first person. And the amount of instances where you find manually placed items in an arrangement that tells some little story of something that happened. Of course there are games like BG3 that go several steps beyond with destructible objects and them being able to be manipulated in many ways, but that's a super different game with physics being. Little priority. And speaking of destructible objects, the engine is clearly capable of it, it's very much a "developers chose not to" In skyrim you can burn down a banner in one of the quests, in starfield there are a couple destructible "doors", an emergency door you cut open with a mining laser and rock piles you can explode to destroy, as well as some objects you have to shoot to destroy. Those are all too infrequent and they're very minor but i really hope bethesda focuses further on interactable environments, like destructible furniture and such. And, as a side note, at times i really feel like BGS RPGs can feel like immersive sims in the level design, especially fallout 4 and starfield. Every building that makes sense to have a bathroom has a bathroom, how more immersive sim can it get.

[@rioplats]

This. The clutter, the interactivity, the systems and potential systems (thanks modding), alongside the "vibe" of exploration, are what really defines a "scrolls-like" to me, beyond the open world, beyond the stories and quests, beyond the progression systems. If I want to reverse-pickpocket a poisoned apple into an NPC's inventory; if I want to blast my follower down a sheer cliff face, if I want to steal every piece of cheese in an entire country and dump them onto the floor in my house, there's only one place to get it. The Elder Scrolls. You can attack with a torch in Skyrim, by the way. They even set your enemies alight :)

[@guruthosamarthruin4459]

Yep. This is truly the piece that you add on top of the open-world to make a true "scrolls-like", and I've never found a single game that does it. That's why I keep playing Skyrim mods.

[@reckless5834]

You should check out a game called monomyth. Just came out in EA but I'd definitely consider it a scrolls like and its an im sim so lots of interactivity.

[@monolalia]

@@reckless5834 I’ve checked out the demo a while back. Ticks some boxes indeed, as does Dark Messia of M&M. Not the nature/wildlife/towns/civilian life boxes so much…

[@Kevduit]

Incredibly well done video, enjoyed watching this as I'm heading back into Oblivion

[@ZRV01]

I think a big thing that makes Bethesda games is the “Any item that you see can be taken” I love when items in the world have physics and can be taken. The armor some dude is wearing? You can take it. The items on that table? You can take them.

[@shadowswithin702]

True but that get's to be such a problem, it's made me into a loot goblin literally lol. Every game I'm looking for shit to pick up, currently I'm progressing warframe. And I'm left behind, as I loot every cabinet I can. Even putting mods on my pet to get more resources, it's almost an addiction.

[@ZRV01]

@@shadowswithin702 yeah I agree. But I think that’s an issue with them allowing you to carry so much, not that you can take items to begin with. I made a mod for Oblivion recently that makes it so carryweight drastically impacts gameplay so you’re incentivized to carry less if you can. Makes looting into an “after the danger is dealt with” thing or you have consequences

[@LiF-y3c]

kleptomania simulation

[@_JellyWalker]

See that sweetroll? You can take it.

[@UtielTheHopeful]

@@_JellyWalker That sweetroll you took? Someone stole it.

[@MrMucera]

The Bloodline is an amazing achievement for a single dev and has so many fun systems that i did not expect it to have. Honestly fun to just get and play for a while. Tainted Grail is more gritty but also more akin to an Elder Scrolls title. The systems in place all feel pretty good so far and i can't wait for full release.

[@Impath]

I was also surprised by how fun The Bloodline is. I really look forward to each update now.

[@andrewlinn7863]

MrMurera Check out ‘The Wayward Realms’. It’s going to be a scrolls like.

[@squelchotron8259]

@@andrewlinn7863 Too focused on dungeon crawling. Dev doesn't want to add crafting or anything of that sort.

[@Roboprogs]

I like that you can toggle between 1st and 3rd person in Skyrim. I’m clumsy, and want to see where my feet are going, but still zoom in when needed. Both views means more players.

[@ZaLewdWarudo]

Ew

[@woltergeist9175]

I hope they add a camera mode in elder scrolls 6 where you can freely rotate (and zoom) around your character to check out gear 'n stuff

[@ulfricstormcloak7142]

That's one of the best thing about Bethesda games. Option to easily switch between 1st & 3rd person views. When I want more immersion, I simply use 1st. When I want to see my character walking around in full body view, I switched to 3rd person

[@aryabratsahoo7474]

​@@woltergeist9175that exists in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim

[@shadowswithin702]

Yes having the choice is not a bad thing, I tend to use both in different scenarios which is great.

[@123Juniiorr]

To be honest, the combat in these games is more like Dark Messiah than anything Bethesda has ever made.

[@seeinred]

So are you saying the combat in these games is leagues better than anything Bethesda ever made? Now i have to look into it myself, dammit.

[@flouserschird]

Wow so it’s better?

[@Verchiel_]

Tbf Fall of avalon combat looks pretty similar to Skyrim. Just a lot more feedback. Which isn't a surprise considering Fall of avalon in many of it's design choices is copying skyrim.

[@ksh2596]

And that's a good thing, because TES combat sucks and always has

[@morfruse]

TES combat sucks due to the engine limitations. If the Bethesda devs had access to a modern game engine, they'd make great combat systems as well.

[@leonm.8865]

I think one of the most important aspects of the elder scrolls series (at least since morrowind) is being able to pick almost everything up. Except for furniture and stuff like that. It felt really weird to only be able to interact with certain items in tes online.

[@elha7982]

Sandboxing Exploration First Person but also: Interesting Lore

[@benjaminharmon6541]

There's a mod for Morrowind that lets you buy furniture and place it where you want too!

[@skippingstep1515]

One recommendation I have for a "Scrolls-like" would be "The Dread Delusion". - Very Unique fantasy setting. - You start as a prisoner. - Always in 1st person, and while you don't customize what you look like, you do get to pick your background for starting stats. - After tutorial mission, completely free to go where you want, unlocking new areas with certain quests. The game actually takes a few pages out of Morrowind: - No on-demand fast travel, forcing you to use travelling spells or hike it to where you want to go. - No quest markers, ensuring that you have to use the geography skills you learned in school to find things. - The world is just big enough for exploration to be rewarding, but small enough that you won't get hopelessly lost or that there's any unused space. The main story is pretty unique, as well as the art style. They seemed to make the game look like a long-lost PS1 game, and it looks the part. It's pretty easy to pick up, and I'm giving it a playthrough right now. I'd give it a pick up.

[@MD-yd8lh]

Its really interesting one

[@pafund2544]

I loved that game! Really underrated.

[@wayatvideos2142]

I played it a couple years back, but it was way undercooked. I'm guessing it's better now.

[@TheTraveler980]

1.0 release, so I should say so.​@@wayatvideos2142

[@ThreadBareHope1234]

These are some good points too. I really hope Elder Scrolls 6 stays niche. When I was first getting into it, the fact that the history and characters were wacky, it had just enough edge, and the magic/ spirituality is in a word flexible. But that won't appeal to main stream players/ audiences. Even Skyrim (considered the most basic/mainstream main line Elder Scrolls) still had a lot of things that distinguish the franchise. Plus, much of gaming has been unambitious lately, so I'm afraid this next one won't use what makes ES special in the best way. They may even exclude things that are too weird. And a little something I would like that doesn't really matter is the visual style of the people. The way humans, elves, and beast folk AREN'T too realistic in Skyrim is what makes it fun, and they aren't trying to be too pretty or to realistic. And in my opinion, the elves with angular features are better than the very round faces of Oblivion elves. It's unique. Also Happy Spooky Month🍂🎃🧛‍♀🦇

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

Ooo, no mention of Ardenfall? Granted, it's still not out but the demo, so far, has been perhaps the best representation of a "Scrolls-like" while still changing things to fit their own design philosophy. Honestly, love the fact that they ditched the whole "level skills as you use them" thing because it actually allows certain skills to become useful both in terms of progression speed and usability in, say, dialogue skill checks and utility. Wayward Realms is also on the way but only light bits of footage have been shown. Seems like an interesting "what if Bethesda decided to continue directly from the design principles of Daggerfall" kind of project.

[@Verchiel_]

I now realized you were talking about wayward realms not avowed. Am dumb

[@dickyboi4956]

God i wish the ardenfall team would put something out. I started following it like a year and a half ago

[@JocomsPhantom]

was looking for this comment

[@shadowswithin702]

I just went over to steam and grabbed the demo, and will have a go on it. So thank you, I didn't know of it's existence. With so many games coming out, it can be hard to keep up.

[@Gems56]

Didn't mention Ravensword shadowlands either.

[@riceplatter8102]

I think my favorite thing about Bethesda games is that all items have in game assets and aren't just things in a menu. And that you can pick up and manipulate those items and they'll stay where you left them. I'm disappointed that no game (that I know of) tries to copy this. Kingdom Come Deliverance has in game assets for all items, but you cant manipulate them. That being said, all of these games look like fire and I've added them to my Steam wishlist.

[@ARQP000]

"Actively moddable" or something like this should also be included in the categories. I mean, Bethesda made their games in such a way that is easy to be modded. They also actively released a modding tool for each of their game, so it should also be a thing for any "Scrolls-like" game.

[@cyrosphere0154]

0:28 "and some of the best music ever written for a video game, you have Skyrim" *Plays Oblivion sound track*

[@CoperliteConsumer]

Same artist

[@Troglolo]

Thought the exact same thing, oblivion and morrowinds tracks are far better.

[@cyrosphere0154]

@@CoperliteConsumer sure, but that wasn't the point

[@Verchiel_]

i'm not much of a music snob but far as i'm concerned all BGS games have banger music.

[@SameriddAndCave]

​@Troglolo morrowind literally only has 4 songs stretched across 80 hours of gameplay what are you smoking

[@sufficient4834]

The issue with hoping for a lone indie developer to create anything that feels lie Elder Scrolls is scope. A lone person cannot possibly implement the sheer amount of content and features to recreate the sense of freedom Bethesda gave us

[@Here_is_Waldo]

Sadly true.

[@Verchiel_]

Yup. Now to be fair, Bloodline is kinda going for that. Of course right now it gives off major feature creep with lots of the features and content while existing, being incomplete and a lot of it just being signs and such saying "this will be a thing at some point" But i think one day it could become a real game with fleshed out mechanics and content worth playing through. The developer seems very active and there's a lot of people in their discord supporting them.

[@Kvaisir]

​@@Verchiel_ the biggest problem with Bloodline is, that Elder Scrolls Games excels, if you crawl meaningful handcrafted dungeons with meaningful exploration. Procedural generated and random loot do indeed not work to give this experience, which we can see clearly looking at Starfield. Bethesda was a master at creating a world with true exploration, where you wander an open world and all five meters or so there is something that spikes your interest. You go to this point of interest and nearly everytime there is a little backstory or a secret artifact or if your lucky there might even be a whole quest. Combine that with an immersive, interactable and reactive environment and NPCs, who are alive. You have the freedom, to chose who you want to be and how you want to be. Want to kill everyone in a city? Go for it. Want to fight the living god Vivec? Go try it.

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

A game with the scope and production values of Morrowind is totally feasible for a small indie team with today's tools and engines, though.

[@spike1269]

@@HeadsFullOfEyeballs If the engine is OpenMW, yes.

[@enlightenedterrestrial]

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic is amazing. One of the best combat systems out there, fun and interactive environment

[@Xalantor]

The kick is too strong and is the strongest weapon bar none making most other options pretty pointless. But it is just soo fun to ragdoll enemies around that it doesn't matter. Any game looking for a good 1st person melee system should copy it and then experiment from here. Even if those experiments fail it'll still be a fun combat system.

[@docmars]

I wish we could get a heavily physics-oriented open world title a lot like Dark Messiah having a baby with Breath of the Wild. Practically my dream game. It seems like the few years after Half-Life 2 were the golden years for physics-based puzzles, traps, and combat -- and ever since, most games only really used it for cloth animations and a little environmental clutter, but killing enemies with large objects, swinging axes, and launching objects at them is a rarity in games now.

[@juliusfishman7222]

​@Xalantor not true atall if you only kick you will be demolished as enemies can black kick and it doesn't even work most times except they're weekend or at an edge were they can fall. People overhype how op the kick is , cause it's not.

[@nickaborr]

One of the biggest gripes i have with most open world games, including TES series, is the lack of traversal systems. I am a human, i have a monkey brain, i want to climb everywhere. And for that same reason Assassins Creed then and Zelda BOTW/TOTK now have clicked with so many people.

[@davidb7406]

To be fair, Daggerfall had climbing to the point that it was a skill that could be leveled, along with jumping, running and swimming and a levitation and jumping spell for areas where you would need to be not so much a spider as a monkey, and Morrowind at least kept the jumping and the levitate and jumping spells. I've heard various reasons as to why they were taken out of Oblivion onwards, though I admit I don't know what is truth vs lies. I'm pretty sure that mods have added climbing to at least Oblivion, and probably to Morrowind and Skyrim as well, so I'm guessing from what you said that you and I both agree that with the success of BOTW/TOTK and I guess to a lesser extent AC, Bethesda absolutely needs to put climbing in some form in ES VI, because the Big N have basically proven that climbing can exist in this sort of game and gamers will embrace it and even tolerate the fact that it can do silly things sometimes, as I don't think I've ever heard anyone launch into a screed that 3D Zelda is now ruined because you can do slightly cheesy things with climbing and other mobility features, though I suppose there are some immersion-heads in the TES community that are such slaves to verisimilitude that they might throw a screeching tantrum that it somehow ruins "immersion". At the end of the day, though, it all boils down to the engine that Bethesda hangs around it's neck like an albatross. Frankly, the timeframe of Starfield's release really feels like the release of BOTW should have made it clear they should put climbing in their game. You know, the game whose load-bearing pillar of a central theme is exploration of the unknown. Heck I would have even accepted that you could only climb on worlds where you don't have to wear your spacesuit, since climbing potentially pointy rocks in a pressurized outfit seems like it might be a bad idea. But, we can dream, I suppose.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

@10:24 it's drastic, not Jurassic 😂 (great video btw)

[@enragedbard]

Figured it was actual dinosaurs. 😂

[@Yora21]

I've been learning the first basics of making videogames this year, and immediately knew I want to explore different directions for fantasy RPGs and ImSims than the ones taken by the mainstream since the mid 2000s. And now that I am paying attention to it, I'm noticing that a lot of people have been having the same thought in the last 5 years or so. So many amazing looking games made by one or two people who take everything we know about these kinds of games now, to make games like in the early 2000s but better and not beholden to some investors who just want to see their money grow.

[@dr_ubo]

5:55 The Bloodline 13:14 Raidborn 17:16 Tainted Grail The Fall of Avalon Honestly I'd suggest adding Dread Delusion (I would recommend buying the bundle with Lunacid too, but that's more King's Field and less Elder Scrolls) and The Axis Unseen by an Ex-Bethesda dev. I could go and also recommend Monomyth, but like Lunacid, that's more King's Field than Elder Scrolls. They're excellent games and if you dig the dungeon crawling, then you'll like them. Do NOT miss out on Dread Delusion and The Axis Unseen!

[@connorsol]

Best comment. Video is good but missing Dread Delusion was a big slip! And not adding time stamps was annoying. Thanks for improving the video

[@jedidevin7894]

Apparently people seem to have forgotten or has not heard of The Wayward Realms which is a scrolls like game that is being developed by someone who actually made the first two Elder Scrolls games Arena & Daggerfall.

[@BigVorst]

There just isn't much to say about it really, aside from a gameplay trailer, you can't do or say much with just proofs of concepts and a kickstarter campaign.

[@theashenone9703]

Holy moly! This looks really promising, thank You for the comment!

[@jedidevin7894]

@@BigVorst That's true but it could have at least been an honorable mention or something like that.

[@jedidevin7894]

You are very welcome.

[@BigVorst]

@@jedidevin7894 Indeed, for what it's worth though, I do hope it turns out to be good.

[@CodyisKing]

11:20 horrible advice. They need to focuse more or story and quests and living world's not make it a spiderman simulation

[@theashenone9703]

I agree, but I'm afraid more and more people like mindless gaming instead of engaging story and good quests. AAA games are getting worse, they're huge, but empty. I really appreciate indie games.

[@HulkVahkiin]

Did you even hear what he said? The features for mobility and terrain traversal are already there, and he says it needs to be improved upon. It's actually simple and solid advice. His not asking to focus on a certain aspect more but to improve upon a feature. The first thing to do once you release a game is to improve upon current features and then add new ones.

[@jorgepiresjunior]

One of the most important aspects of Skyrim, in my opinion, is crafting and levelling skills.

[@plainluke722]

Yeah. Levelling up felt satisfying.

[@AhmadWahelsa]

for me it's smithing (or crafting too) and enchanting, in TES it feels very unique, other games is either tedious or uninteresting like Ubisoft and Sony games (GoW, AC, Horizon), the closest feeling that feels unique is Minecraft, Dying Light's DIY weapons, and maybe Cyberpunk's Cyberware, i think maybe because other games limits the amount you can improve, whereas in these games i mentioned, you could keep upgrading to the point it has millions of damage

[@thijmstickman8349]

I don't really care for the crafting, but I agree skyrims addicting leveling system is what carries the game for me

[@plebisMaximus]

@@AhmadWahelsa Grinding out Dwarven bows in Skyrim to get up to a level where you can make equipment worth the resources is also pretty tedious and uninteresting. I love being able to make my own gear in any game, makes it feel special, but I don't think any TES game has done it that well. Despite how little I like the game as a whole, I actually think ESO did crafting the best.

[@cheekibreeki904]

@@plebisMaximus why would you be grinding out bows instead of gold rings? In my experience, they work miracles when leveling up smithing in Skyrim.

[@XxDruidmancerxX]

Ever played the King's Field games? Thought of it because of 'dungeon crawling', anyway, there's a cool indie game called Monomyth, inspired by the old KF games. And I think it's also a solo dev game. Maybe you'll like it!

[@comradestannis]

King's Field is great. Everyone here should play it.

[@CoperliteConsumer]

Monmouth is soooo good!;it's not finished but what is combines Skyrim and dues ex(survival sim), to make the perfect game!

[@shadowswithin702]

Yup gone and grabbed that demo as well, thank you for the info.

[@Chinothebad]

@@XxDruidmancerxX From Software's OG series that even their own Soulsborne games had drawn from.

[@youngimmortal4719]

The big thing separating Scrolls games from other open-world RPGs, other than being first-person, is skills increasing through use. I've always enjoyed that feature and I noticed at least one of these games had that too. These look interesting, will look into them.

[@dizocilpine]

old rpgs did that

[@philipprudek9537]

The contrast between the heavy metal music and your calming voice is great. Anyways, I've played a lot of raid borne, it's a great game even though it ain't finished. But tainted grail is a game I'm just gonna keep an eye on until it releases to 1.0. The blood line looks fun enough to try out but I've been giving it the same treatment as tainted grail; wait and see. There's another game that could be cool to put into this bracket of "scrolls like" and that is Gedonia. Very similar to the Bloodline game's situation, but a tad more fleshed out. You should check it out.

[@Frobac]

Gedonia looks nice! Can it be played in first person perspective? The demo video showed everything in third person.

[@shadowswithin702]

Yes Gedonia is very good, the amount of exploration and variety is fantastic.

[@philipprudek9537]

@@Frobac Unfortunately, the first person camera was never implemented. Not sure why, but it was requested by plenty of people.

[@schmlif8839]

I know were basing our definition of scrolls like on skyrim but a notable project that deserves some spotlight is the Wayward Realms. Its a game being directed by two people who worked on the Elder Scrolls in the past. The game is still getting funding and is hoping to get an early access release in a year. Its more akin to Daggerfall and other crpgs of the time however. I ofc encourage everyone to take a crack at it when it releases but i do understand if its not necessarily everyones cup of tea. Daggerfall and Skyrim despite being in the same seires, are vastly different games.

[@johaquila]

Well, for now the main problem with Wayward Realms isn't so much what it is, but what it isn't: completed and playable. But yes, it should probably have been mentioned, even though the Kickstarter campaign has already reached its goal. (You can still reserve early access digital copies if you want to support the development. Given that some Daggerfall/Morrowind developers are on the team, it seems very likely that they will actually deliver _something,_ and quite possible that it will be something great.)

[@nakenmil]

This isn't really a scrollslike, but I noticed that Kenshi really scratched the same itch Morrowind does. An alien world, with a lot of freedom to live your own life. Kenshi is a beast unto its own, though, it's just way more sandboxy.

[@EvilSSP]

I'm absolutely baffled by the lack of open world 1st/3rd player action RPG loot driven Diablo style games. Right now I'm playing Gedonia which is surprisingly great for a one man developed game.

[@jazz8000]

Arx Fatalis is open world, its probably the most diverse underground setting you can get

[@Aczie042]

Hell yeah. You can literally make bread in real time in that game.

[@DragonBoi3789]

So you've missed a crucial addition to this list that takes direct inspiration from Morrowind, the indie game Dread Delusion

[@360flip86]

What made skyrim so great was its open world and vast ampubt of handcrafted places that were all rich with lore, interesting enemies and loot to find and the modding community.

[@karemelskares]

There's another "Scrolls-Like" game in the works by OnceLost games called The Wayward Realms.

[@_JellyWalker]

That game looks like it really captures the charm of old Elder Scrolls games.

[@jidhed]

It's a project that deserves more attention. I mean it's the 2 most important creators of the Elder Scrolls series making their successor to Daggerfall

[@Itatchi1771]

Great video my dude. Your style was engaging and not overly expository (it gets annoying when every video essay is 20% history lesson) and your choice of games hit the nail on the head. Big ups to you, you've earned my like.

[@marshalmarshall2109]

Calling dragon's dogma a scrollslike is sacrilege

[@grantm1528]

I like that you made all 3 games sound fun without ignoring their issues. Some of the titles in your past videos look interesting so I'll give those a look as well. Cheers!

[@Nommicus]

Monomyth, loving it for £15 especially!!

[@olchum7605]

more Arx rather than elder scrolls. There a lot of people like me who want immersive sims like dark messiah just a bit more open world. Many people bring up skyrim and dark messiah in the same conversation but one is a boring slog with stupid sluggish and clunky combat while the other is a masterpiece of game design.

[@zomalasg]

​@@olchum7605 For the contrary I would love roguelike dark messiah rather than open world rpg but the latter would do too

[@perryborn2777]

​@@zomalasgroguelike Dark Messiah sounds cool, but I think the actual level design of DM is too important for procgen to give the same or similar feeling

[@ADHDSpammer]

Man, im so glad to found your channel! Good job man! Greetins from Brazil

[@TanikXD]

Watched 5 minutes of the video. Gonna say that im gonna sub to your channel, because you really just took and analysed all my feelings from my heart in your labarotory. Man i really played all these games with same thoughts.

[@TanikXD]

oh wait i already did

[@cristianpereyra6912]

hell yeah I've been on the bloodline subreddit for ages it's good to see it mentioned somewhere else

[@MHXcreation]

You should try >> Dread Delusion

[@Tonesville]

Already reviewed it! Excellent game.

[@spudmaphot]

Another game in this genre would be Dread Delusion, which is quite good and has a very interesting retro PS1 style and a really crazy universe that I can only describe as "alien", as in it does not follow the rules of ours universe.

[@arcannar]

@5:04 start of scrolls like

[@billysweird]

even then it still drags on.....godamn

[@Bandit7254]

Really solid video. Scrolls-likes is my favorite genre. I'll check these games out.

[@MetalMonkey1453]

I have played both Bloodline and Tainted Grail. Really like both. Hope Bloodline gets controller support eventually. I'm getting too old for M&K to feel comfortable for more than an hour, hahah. As for Tainted Grail, I'm very excited to see what that one becomes. But I totally agree with you on difficulty. To expand on that more, since I have probably played more than you: the MAIN issue, I think, with its difficulty curve isn't so much the nonlinear level scaling as it is the structure of it. It's very clearly intended to be one of those "come back here when you are stronger" games, but with less incentive to do so -why do I want to come back and fight a low level boss from 10 hours ago if the gear he would give me is now obsolete?- and, as you said, some extremely broken skills/builds. For example, with a little heavy armor investment, in one playthrough, I crafted an armor set with LITERALLY over 100% DR. I was literally invincible. There's very little middle ground. Either you are getting 1 shot or the game feels like a breeze. Still love it, tho. Excited to see spears.

[@theashenone9703]

I'm playing on high difficulty and it seems quite balanced, maybe I didn't find broken build yet.

[@gabinelson]

You watch for Scrolls-like games. We watch you. Subscribed!

[@jangiurg5295]

All I want is Skyrim with damage model from Dead Island 2. Imagine using flame magic to melt the armor and flesh from enemies.

[@juliusfishman7222]

Then go play skyrim with mods

[@wispfire2545]

Here's hoping for a timely and bright future to Scrolls-like. (:

[@ItsTheWAB]

Been waiting on this

[@phlack1001]

Too many comments, so I'm sure someone else has already said it, but what I was surprised wasn't a characteristic of "Skyrim-like" was the ability to mod it. One reason Skyrim has so much staying power is because it's so expandable by mods. There are games I'd like to keep playing (the Just Cause series, for example) but since it really isn't modable, the game is what the developers did, and that's it. Skyrim...well...land mass alone has at least tripled due to mods, not to mention quests, weapons, characters, spells, etc etc. This may just be a function of the engine itself, but I think it's rather important.

[@magusjiro]

Part of the scrolls-like for me is a fantasy world with playable fantasy races like elves. These don't have that.

[@davidb7406]

Somewhat ironically, I'm pretty sure at least one of (possibly more) of the designers from the start of the ES Renaissance hated the fact that the established nature of the universe meant that they had to use fantasy races like elves and couldn't just make up their own, which is why the mid-era games (Redguard, Morrowind, Shadowkey I guess) had really "weird" but mostly good lore. Admittedly I don't like the use of the word "weird" cause most of it is simply based on near, middle and far east folklore and mythology, which makes calling it weird feel kind of rude. Admittedly, though, not all of it. Some of it was just takes on things like Glorantha, or that series that focuses on non-white cultures that was written by a white guy who also released blatant Nazi Propaganda under a pseudonym that was published by a group that basically only publishes blatant Nazi propaganda (Which, to be absolutely fair to fans, was only revealed recently, long after said creator was dead), which probably got a fist pump from players who were familiar with said titles, but were less known to the masses drowning in Euro-centric and Tolkeinesque fantasy, leading the latter group to attach super-hard to that era of TES, for both great good and great ill.

[@comradestannis]

Good.

[@Here_is_Waldo]

Yeah. What's the point of a fantasy setting if we see the same things we would by looking out our front door?

[@RockyBalKoa]

Elves, lizard folk and other races are a must for me.

[@JocomsPhantom]

I'd like it more if they'd have already existing and established races like elves, dwarfes and something like animal folk and put their own unique weird cool spin on it. make them look and act a bit different than their basic normal selves

[@noterrormanagement]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, hope scrolls-like becomes a thing. Great video and subbed :)

[@woolenthreads]

Red Lakes do happen in real life. They are normally highly toxic, as are pink and purple ones. They are also usually adjacent to mines and are where the tailings were dumped, and lo, and behold, there's a mine entrance on one side of the TGFOA red lake LOL

[@Flesh_Wizard]

I think it's metal oxides dissolved in the water that's causing the colour

[@danburke6568]

Wayward realms is many years away, but just finished kickstarter. The daggerfall team is developing it.

[@CoruptedJester]

My biggest thing is the Lore. Gameplay doesn’t matter, so long as the lore is ELDERSCROLLS lore then I’ll get sunk in.

[@jmcantila9104]

I can't even play Skyrim anymore because of the loopholes and alternatives that ES lore people have pointed out and made. Morrowind is better for this reason. Cohesive lore with enough obscurity

[@Crow_Rising]

My personal ideal "Scrolls Like" experience would be this: -Both first person and third person modes you can swap between on the fly. Have everything happen in the currently active mode, so if I'm in first person and I use a chair or a bed, I should sit or lay down while still in first person. This boosts the immersion when wanted. Also, being able to see your character when looking down in first person roots you as a tangible individual in the world which also boosts immersion. Being a floating pair of hands kinda takes you out of the experience. -A variety of different preset classes such as mage, archer, knight, etc. that you can either adhere to or blur the lines between to suit your playstyle. I'd also like for there to be out of combat gameplay differences between these, such as magic users being able to slow their fall and eventually even fly. This type of thing could be perks further down into particular skill trees, so you'd get movement bonuses and the like suited to your playstyle on that playthrough. -Detailed character creation with lots of options. -Online co-op support. Scale enemy attack power and defense based on how many players are playing together, up to four. Allow players to perform co-op actions such as a mage lighting an archer's arrows on fire to do more damage. These types of interactions should also be possible between the player and NPC followers. Different classes playing together could even occasionally take different pathways through areas that affect each other's pathways, such as opening doors leading to more treasure or dropping boulders that crush enemies for an easy kill. -You are not regarded as special within the world. You aren't some prophesized hero or part of some legendary bloodline or anything, you're just some random person in their world who happens to be daring enough to go out on adventures. Completing questlines such as for certain guilds should not result in you being the guild leader at the end. However, I would make an exception in regards to earned reputation. Becoming well known for your exploits, whether that be heroic or evil. Which leads into my final wishlist item which is the most ambitious; -Multiple ways to complete quests, including ways that are evil. Actions should have consequences, and players should have choices on how they deal with those consequences. If I want to play as an evil necromancer, it doesn't make sense for me to be railroaded into becoming the hero of the city/nation/planet/whatever. Let the player take a variety of different pathways through the story and sidequests to reflect the personality of the character they have created. That means that there should be multiple valid ways to go about certain situations even aside from character morality alignment. This alone would generate a ton of replay value, but would also be the biggest pain in the butt to implement.

[@four-en-tee]

Keep an eye on The Wayward Realms too, its being made by the guys who originally made The Elder Scrolls

[@anonymousplantcell5642]

Music in the background is hella sick! I was watching at low volume and then I heard the drums and was like “oh! Metal! I gotta turn this up”

[@ThrobbGoblin]

Eh... Tainted Grail is one of those "The world is dead, therefore we (conveniently) have nothing to do aside from combat". I see it compared to Elder Scrolls a lot- but I just don't see it, aside from it being in first-person. It feels more like someone tried to make a Dying Light spinoff in the Dark Souls universe.

[@theashenone9703]

I think it will get better during development of the game, it got pretty noticeable combat rework so quests and rewards can get better to I guess.

[@JonCrs10]

For me the biggest thing I want in a Scrollslike is the feeling that its a real civilization with multilayer cultures with unique mythologies and religions and histories that all intersect in various, often conflicting ways but often not ways. Just like in real life! I mean, "The Monomyth" is an actual in-world book after all. That kind of sheer esoteric depth is what makes a world feel alive

[@ArkhBaegor]

The Bloodline's dev is awesome, he's really ambitious and manages to deliver on those ambitions consistently

[@cyrosphere0154]

2:40 like swinging a balloon? All of the combat seemed fairly replicable, people just don't really want to do it. Heck, people have been saying their combat is shallow and needs to be improved

[@RustedBuddy5192]

I like the option to go third person because I like seeing interaction. One of the first things I did in Skyrim as an Argonian being lead to Riverwood..... Was cut wood and sell it to save up for a better weapon before going off to Bleak Falls. For a long time playing Oblivion, while I loved the quests, weapons, the characters, I loved to see transformation of my character. It's not enough for me to only enjoy them in the menu. I want to see my character, level 1, in rags, at the bar drinking with other companions be a part of the world and see it again at the nicer tavern, being level 35, with new companions, new drip, and reminisce about lvl 1 me instead of awkwardly standing there. That animation of my Argonian cutting wood, picking it up, leaving on the stump, changing the grip of the axe, even the slight adjustment tap to the wood the character does after placing the wood down. It was cool to see my character interact with the world. I wondered what else I could interact with, Smithing, Grinding, smelting. I just love seeing that perspective of seeing npcs live and interact with my character. It's even what made me love RDR2 so much. Which is why to me, Scrolls-likes need to have that. Equally engaging 1st and 3rd person gameplay. RDR2 to me does that Perfectly, all the way down to shopping and literally picking out the items you want to buy. I would never accept CyberPunk or Outerworlds for axing the ability to not love my character in real time alongside the background of the world they are in. I'd love to see more games play with the idea of "picking anything up". Fallout 4, despite it's many flaws, was cool in that every item could serve a purpose in crafting. It'd be interesting to see this this idea implemented in puzzle solving. I think back to the time when Mercer Frey unlocked a claw door using a trick he never showed us. Would have been a perfect opportunity to have some side convo where he explained what he did and what random set of items he used and that if the player paid attention and had them when they stumbled on to another claw door without a claw in hand and tried that trick it just works.

[@iminumst7827]

As much as I like to see some Elder Scrolls appreciation and inspiration, I think it's atrocious practice to name genres after games. 1) It's a nightmare for anyone new to gaming to understand. 2) It's defined fairly arbitrarily. Your experience of what matters to you in Scrolls games is not universal. Plenty of people play Elder Scrolls in third-person and have no trouble getting immersed into their character. And plenty more people would choose that option if vanilla Skyrim's third-person controls weren't so outdated. To me, having a follower system is more important to the "Scrolls" experience than having a first-person camera, despite my enjoyment of first-person gameplay. 3) It discourages creativity by setting the expectation of a game being a clone. Look at how every "Souls-Like" game needs an i-frame dodge, because that's apparently the only way to make challenging action combat. You will see the same thing happen. Gamers will complain if a Scrolls-like doesn't use a dual-wielding system, or doesn't have magic. That won't seem like a bad thing at first if you just have an itch for a Skyrim clone, but it will get tiring and bloated. So I want to nip this train of thought before it gains any popularity. Do not use the term Scrolls-like, do not let it get popular. You can advocate for the mechanics you like about Elder Scrolls, and promote hidden gem indie games, without trying to coin an awful term that will perpetuate some bad things about gaming culture. And you are already stretching the definitions of your own genre that you just defined, showing just how rigid and unusable the definition really is. Not to mention it sounds so much like Souls-like phonetically, that this particular term is an extra layer of confusing.

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

_"To me, having a follower system is more important to the "Scrolls" experience than having a first-person camera, despite my enjoyment of first-person gameplay."_ That would make your scrollslike a skyrimlike, I'd argue! Since that was the first, and so far only, Elder Scrolls game to feature followers to any significant degree. _"Plenty of people play Elder Scrolls in third-person and have no trouble getting immersed into their character."_ I think it's more that plenty of people don't care about getting immersed in their character to begin with. Many people either "play themselves", or treat the game as a soup of fun activities rather than a world with a narrative (like the type of player who will do every guild in Oblivion and Skyrim on a single character, even though that makes no sense at all in-world).

[@adamhall4605]

Not to mention Elder Scrolls didn't redefine the genre or bring any major innovations. They improved on elements in many ways, but nothing genre defining.

[@plebisMaximus]

Completely agree. It's also a terrible way to label some games. I really don't get the hype for Dark Souls, just not really my thing, but I do absolutely love Hollow Knight and Nine Sols is pretty fun too, but when the discussion is muddied with the idea of "Souls-likes", it can be hard to find something that's like them without having to wade through a bunch of games that are ACTUALLY like Dark Souls and therefore not at all to my tastes. Same thing could happen in the future if we let "Scrolls-like" become a thing, someone into the linear combat focused experience of Raidborn might think the lengthy dialogues and exploration of an actual TES game is boring as all hell, because they are fundamentally different games. You could argue the same happens with broad genres like "RPG" or "FPS" too, but the label is a lot less direct and therefore gives less expectations. Calling something a Scrolls-like is saying it is like Elder Scrolls right there in the label, so there's going to be tighter expectations for the experience. For the end point of what this'll look like, just look at all the fracturing within the Rogue-like "genre" that came from Rogue-likes actually being absolutely nothing like Rogue anymore and how it's just become a game of broken telephone.

[@HulkVahkiin]

Interesting perspective. 1) Not really. Apples and oranges, but it's kinda easy for anyone to figure out what 'souls-like' is for anyone using a little bit of brain power. Looking at ES, it wouldn't be much more difficult. 2) Then let it not be defined arbitrarily. There are indeed things that put Elder Scrolls apart from other games until now - that doesn't depend on what matters to the individual - for example, the ability to pick up almost anything, lol. 3) Indeed, that does make it sound like a double-edged sword. But hey, the reason why people would complain is because they do expect a certain formula. It's like asking for a cheeseburger of any kind. You can add whatever, but it still needs to have beef, cheese, whatever vegetable. If you want 'Scroll-like'' I guess it should have duel-wielding and magic. In any case, it's not like such a term will exist anytime soon, and if it somehow naturally does. I think by then there will be definitions on what ''Scrolls-like'' is.

[@plebisMaximus]

I've played Raidborn (I consider it more Daggerfall lite than Skyrim lite, but to each their own) and it's awesome, I'll keep following the development, but Bloodlines sounds exactly like what I've been looking for, thanks for showcasing it, I'll be following that real close.

[@DevvuInTheDetails]

Bloodline's got a lotta wow factor to it. Using the grappling hook to slam a jetpack goblin to the ground is so satisfying.

[@GhoulGamess]

Cool hat, I have a tattoo on my wrist of it

[@moonie9000]

Scrolls-likes > souls-likes.

[@Aetrion]

Check out Ardenfall, that's another person working on their own Scrolls-like title. Also Isles of Adalar and The Wayward Realms. There is also Monomyth, but that's more of a first person dungeon crawler without a heavy emphasis on an open world, but just one giant megadungeon to solve.

[@magmachicken4402]

Unexpected? There was zero reason that no one started to make Scrolls-likes. It's been a giant burning question in the sky: Why the f--k aren't there any studios or indies making Scrolls-likes. Also, ES VI will be Dog s--t. Just like everything Bethesda has made since a game 12 years ago. :| Don't even hope. Starfield was a wake up call for you slower folk.

[@CoperliteConsumer]

This

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

You think there's no reason as you look at a series of games that are notoriously known for being big almost for the sake of being big, all the while presenting the player with a variety of options for building their character, to the detriment of some skills having barely any use at all, as well as attempting to be reactive, even though they still had to put essential tags on NPCs just so everything wouldn't go to hell in their KISSed narrative design? My dude, feature creep. You CAN'T make anything similar to The Elder Scrolls unless you have the time and the budget to just keep piling things on top of one another because TES is defined by being more wide than it is deep or interconnected. Similarly to how Ubisoft are among the only ones making those "open world RPG-lite action adventure with towers" games. Because they're the ones who know that they can do it and that it'll sell because they're the ones known for doing them.

[@Xalantor]

@@thosebloodybadgers8499 That's a reason why there are no other AAA games like Skyrim, but I am unconvinced that it's impossible to drastically reduce needed assets with a smaller AA studio and not make a successful game, especially when the players are starved for a decade. 1 town, 3 villages, 5 dungeons and some surrounding land made with similar assets is enough if you fill it with enough quests. Most villages in Skyrim had a single thing happen there. But you could just as well place 5 quests in the same village, maybe with some story triggers so you get them in a staggered manner and not all at once, and cut down on the need of separate villages by 5 times. A more stylized more simplistic art style not needing photo realism assets and you've cut down the work by a ton. Skyrim was never a graphical powerhouse in its vanilla state. The Yakuza games all happen in the same small city district, but it is filled to the brim with quests and activities that the small space doesn't matter.

[@thosebloodybadgers8499]

@@Xalantor but TES games aren't just about scope it terms of pure content, they're also about scope in terms of systems. Just Skyrim alone, arguably the most shallow mainline TES game on offer at the moment of writing (outside of Arena, that is) features a borderline insane amount of different systems to implement, connect and balance. Even Bethesda themselves consistently have trouble with these aspects, always coming up short of making all of them viable, fun, engaging and interconnected. Of course we aren't seeing more people follow in those footsteps when both defining what makes a TES game and how to actually practically make it yourself are such difficult questions. Compare and contrast to the pillars of, say, what a Souls game is and I'd say it's pretty apparent why the latter has a whole subgenre dedicated to people trying to follow in its wake and the former doesn't.

[@moonie9000]

I think loot and character creation also needs to be added to the list of components needed to make the game a 'scrolls-like'

[@thatzaliasguy]

I hate the low-poly regurgi-slop being churned out by "indie devs".

[@dfgyuhdd]

I feel like half of them hide behind the word Indie to explain why they didn't finish making the game.

[@B0NNATTv]

Please, do us a real game!

[@Xalantor]

Tainted Grail's combat isn't that different from Skyrims, but there are two genius additions that change the whole feel of the combat. Weapons feel like they have weight because you commit to each swing in a soft animation lock and the weapon will stop when hitting something. You cannot wildly flail around and spin and run at the same time, forcing you to be more stategic. The dodge make combat much more dynamic and is the perfect addition for any stealth/dexterity focused build. Dex skills increase the frequency, distance and cool down of it making you able to dance around enemies. Combat in that state is completely fine and feels much better than vanilla Skyrim without drastically changing much. Brilliant. Now I wish they would focus more on the interactivity of the world.

[@crow__bar]

Not fully done with the video yet so sorry if it was mentioned, but Enderal is 100% a must play for anyone that wants a "scrolls-like". The main and side stories absolutely demolish Bethesda in terms of writing. The combat was overhauled to actually make it engaging and difficult, instead of mindlessly spamming sword swings and eating 30 cheese wheels to heal up. The world is open and the areas varied, lots of secrets to find almost everywhere. The best part? Its totally free. It is actually a total conversion mod for Skyrim, but to just call it "a mod" does a massive disservice to the team behind it. A completely new setting and world, full English voice acting, original soundtrack, many original assets, the list goes on. They added it two faction questlines and 2 classes as a free DLC. The game offers over 100 hours of content, and it doesn't cost a single cent, as long as you own Skyrim on Steam. Much of the same can also be said about the games predecessor, Nehrim, which is a total conversion of Oblivion, set before the plot of Enderal. The game isnt as polished and it only has German voice acting, but the writing and exploration are still there in full force. Both of these are available on Steam for free if you own Oblivion and Skyrim respectively (both LE and SE version available). If you are even slightly interested in more Oblivion/Skyrim, there isnt a single reason to not at least give these a try. It will cost you nothing and it might end up resulting in one of the best gaming experiences from the past decade, as it did for me.

[@chaosmeisters6781]

I have tried Enderal so often, I just can't get into it. No idea what it is. Just doesn't grab me. I wager it may be "too hard" and not the relaxing breeze that Skyrim et al are.

[@Seismo2077]

@@chaosmeisters6781 Yes, Enderal is in fact very challenging sometimes

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

Two things that seem small, but are essential to the Elder Scrolls experience for me, are the interactivity of clutter objects plus the way NPCs use the same stats, spells and systems as the player character. Both help the world feel like a place that simply exists, rather than a carnival ride for me, the player. That's one area where Cyberpunk, for example, falls short. When I explore a Dwemer ruin in Morrowind, I can pick up any incidental clutter objects and make a little archaeological exhibit at my house. When I defeat a tough enemy, I can take anything they were carrying as a trophy. I can go to the shop, buy plates, cutlery, candles and food, and set my own dinner table. The game doesn't decide for me what is gameplay-relevant loot and what's merely set dressing. When I fight a Dark Elf, I know they can cast that same annoying Ancestor Guardian power I would have. And I know that if I reduce their Strength stat to 0 they'll be unable to move, just like what happened to me that one time I got cursed too hard.

[@Xalantor]

I completely agree about those two things. It makes me feel part of the world. Couple that with the ability to basically go to every part of the map or leave any dungeon halfway through and we've found the three things that make TES special. Other games are designed in a way to give you a curated experience. The designer intend for you to only be in this specific level and maybe do the 2 optional quests and loot those 3 weapons there, but no more and if that level is done you're forced to continue and can never go back.

[@sotnos1125]

The bloodline is my current favourite game and I've been entirely obsessed with it since the day it became available on Steam Edit/Cont: I have an entirely different opinion on so many things he said about The Bloodline which I find really interesting - he and I obviously have different expectations for our games and it makes our game play experience entirely different

[@changer_of_ways_999]

Thank you for making me aware of this. It's starting to become a law of gaming, when a AAA studio drops the ball, a smaller studio will pick it up. Every dead or ruined franchise gets a spiritual successor.

[@shadowstorm657]

Seeing three different devs in the comment section is amazing. Great work.

[@metatron107]

TES isn’t coming back because Bethesda let Ken Rolston go-the guy who shaped Morrowind and Oblivion, and even set up Skyrim’s lore before leaving. Letting him go was Bethesda’s ticket to creative bankruptcy. But hey, Todd Howard says, 'It just works,' right?

[@gur1363]

hundreds of people worked on those games, Ken Rolston was a part of that but he's not the sole reason they did well

[@metatron107]

@@gur1363 He was the lead developer and loremaster until V. That's not your average role

[@Iogsatot]

You forgot about Michael Kirkbride and Kurt Kuhlmann. They both invest a lot in the tes lore. Ken Rolston was just last one to leave.

[@spacedinosaur8733]

Very cool, I'll add them to my STEAM wishlist for payday. Good job!

[@zipperman1448]

The biggest problem of these three games is that their art style is as exciting as a wet cardboard

[@theashenone9703]

In my opinion Tainted Grail has quite interesting, dark art style

[@thebeatles9]

this was a very cool review and I have very strong positive feelings about the content and games discussed

[@rioplats]

God, really wish there were more "scrolls-likes" out there, yeah. It's a crying shame how few developers have even attempted it, much less pulled it off. I would dispute your criteria ever so slightly, however, in that I consider Kingdom Come: Deliverance to be a scrolls-like but not Cyberpunk 2077 - you may not get to create Henry but you do get to choose how to interact with the world, systems, and NPCs, and this is totally lacking in CP77. You get so few meaningful choices; there's no immersive sim/non-combat systems to really fiddle with or non-consumable items to pick up; it has so few non-crowd NPCs to speak to other than during missions; and it has such a "one and done" experience clearing out the map in that game that I'd liken it far more to a Far Cry game than an Elder Scrolls game. Still, great video! I've heard of Tainted Grail, mostly because it's received some gaming press coverage, but not the others. Alas they don't really seem like what I'm looking for. Much love and best of luck to all the indie devs out there looking to capture that Bethesda magic we know and love, though I suspect the scope of a "full" BGS-style game that I've been craving will take a large development studio to pull off.

[@TheYashakami]

I am also been desperate for an elder scrolls style game. I was updating the steam page for bloodline and tainted Grail every two weeks hoping for a release date before they released. I've never heard of raidborn though. Great list.

[@contessa.adella]

3:41 Nope….First person is NOT crucial to ES feel. First person is for those who want to immerse THEMSELVES into the world, but plenty of us instead guide our character through it instead. My character, Adella, IS NOT ME…get it. Think of like, we play through it together. So having the First AND Third pov is crucial to cover everybody.

[@cherifgrib]

It's crucial mate

[@cwolfxuk-other]

Gotta admit, impressed that Tainted Grail has a demo, winner there! Will be trying this.

[@guruthosamarthruin4459]

There are no "scrolls-like" games. None. Elder Scrolls are not just "open-world"; they are simulated sandbox worlds with interactivity and physics on random objects that make you feel like you're really there. Fus-roh-dah a table, and everything goes flying all over the place, and actually stays there, even if you come back many hours later. This is a big reason why there are still so many massive quest mods being made for Skyrim. Those mods are the only "scrolls-like" things we have.

[@jackpitman15]

True, skyrim isnt a traditional rpg its a pretty limited immersive sim type rpg

[@SmokedUpMage]

Avowed is gonna be the ES6 we didn't know we needed. Anyone who's played pillars of eternity understands just how insane it's going to be.

[@macpocketedition5283]

The Raidborn Dev and The Bloodline Dev should just work together

[@PhodexGames]

Maybe. I need someone with more megalomania and he needs someone with less :D

[@HallyVee]

I've just never had this many picadillos about my action rpgs; my enjoyment of ES games, Morrowind primarily, is about the sandbox nature, the combat is almost incidental. Most combat systems would serve just fine.

[@plebisMaximus]

My thoughts exactly. A lot of Elder Scrolls discourse is about how the combat should be more like X, despite it not being a combat focused series, it's about exploration. If I wanted a game with Mount & Blade combat, I'd play Mount & Blade lol.

[@magusjiro]

I generally much prefer 3rd person in my immersive scrolls-like rpgs. Morrowind/Skyrim would feel way different without the optional 3rd person. Especially when 1st person sometimes means we cannot make our character.

[@PseronWyrd]

Yes! Me too.

[@ejlmkn9207]

I agree. And that's the thing i hate about cyberpunk 2077. What's the point in character creation when you can't see your character in 3rd person

[@vja1970]

I prefer 3rd person also.Motion sickness in terms of first person games is a problem. Immersion isnt a problem if the gameplay is addictive.

[@Xalantor]

1st person is a much different experience than 3rd person. Without mods 3rd person in Skyrim was always unwieldy and clunky.

[@PseronWyrd]

I no longer buy games that fail to offer a 3rd-person POV. Frankly, I dislike everything about 3rd-person. I even have a hard time watching KZbin videos of people playing in 1st-person.

[@Spooken]

Add Dread Delusion to that list, also look out for Ardenfall