The END of WordPress?

[@Craylor]

This is a quickly developing story. Since recording this, Automattic temporarily unblocked WP Engine from WordPress.org until October 1, and WP Engine successfully implemented their own way of handling WordPress updates. That’s a very impressive accomplishment in such a short time. The biggest unknown right now is what happens to ACF. Matt has stated that WP Engine can’t log into their wordpress.org account to release updates, and he’s also threatened to add ACF Pro to WordPress core. WP Engine has also updated the copy of their website in hopes of resolving their alleged trademark violation, but after continued threats from Automattic, they've filed an official 62-page complaint, requesting a jury trial in the State of California: wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Complaint-WP-Engine-v-Automattic-et-al.pdf Only time will tell how this all plays out.

[@AllanSavolainen]

Well, it is super easy, barely an inconvenience to proxy and route the updates from WPE to go through IP that isn't blocked by WP.

[@tylermansmann2843]

TBH I would not call it very impressive, all the software is open source, there are just no mirrors because unlike every other ecosystem, the WP community is more small businesses and less hardcore developers who care about data replication, etc

[@TheVamp]

It escalated further. ACF plugin has been taken over forcibly by wordpressdotorg.

[@tripwire8457]

In Commiefornia? That says a lot. It should be Delaware.

[@journeytocoding816]

Its about you contribute or just act as parasite. I agree with Matt. If anyone is earning and making some good atleast do contribute 1% of what amazing work you have done instead of earning millions quitely.

[@RR-ok4wz]

I agree that WPE (and other hosting companies) should contribute more towards the WP core and development, but Matt's actions were childish, selfish and douchey. They affected the end-users and sent many of them (us) into a bit of a panic. There is no question in my mind that he should be removed from the foundation board. It's a clear conflict of interest. ... his actions will just seed doubt in the stability of WP with a lot of people, myself included.

[@Craylor]

Absolutely. I never thought about WordPress alternatives until last week. Now I'm much more curious about Ghost, etc. Ultimately, I know WordPress is still the top platform for a reason, but I know I'm not alone in considering the alternatives.

[@RR-ok4wz]

@@Craylor Exactly. Now I'm doubting whether or not I want to invest into LTD plans for certain builders, components, plugins, etc. Do I want to continue investing my time into learning new WP related software? I'm not so sure anymore. I know Wordpress isn't going to go belly-up tomorrow, but what's Matt going to do next? Will his actions 2 months from now, 6 months from now, 1 year from now cause more waves? Will they cause devs and designers to jump ship altogether? Who knows. Personally, I'd like to have a job and a way to feed my family, and if WP is not the way to do it, then I need to invest my time and resources elsewhere. I don't think Matt really thought this through very well, at least not from the perspective of the little guys.

[@elizabethyoung5304]

This news is upsetting considering I have a few blog sites. Granted I haven’t posted to them for a number of years but I still have to log in and do all the updates and maintenance on my sites. What a greedy ass Matt has become

[@RR-ok4wz]

@@elizabethyoung5304 I think he was an asshole this entire time, just that it’s become quite public this time around.

[@nickm1049]

Wix & SquareSpace sending a big thanks to Matt

[@Craylor]

This is so true, and this is the thing I don’t think Matt understands. Many users don’t see it as “ok, I just won’t use WP Engine.” They see it as “ok, I just won’t use WordPress.”

[@aalucyaf-zp5ut]

Wix and Squarespace are extremely expensive, specially when you discover how to use something like Cloudways and just pay like 10 bucks per month to host like 15 websites. And when you discover Bricks builder, you can never go back.

[@daveogfans413]

Except that neither is even comparable to WordPress. I could get a client using WordPress and actually optimize their website, despite it being WordPress and essentially junk. But it's mostly fixable junk. Squarespace and Wix are like "Yeah, you might want to cancel that subscription if you want to do something serious with your website." Or in other words: I'd make a custom plugin and theme for a client using WordPress but I wouldn't touch some drag 'n drop nonsense from SMB.

[@mariankohn8411]

@@nickm1049 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@my_name_is_ahad]

They are more dangerous than Wordpress!

[@joewhittaker4472]

Great insights here. I love the conclusion: it aint dead but, if we're not self-aware as a community, this could be the beginning of the end. Spot on!

[@RickLaymance]

Automattic will lose this fight, WPEngine may get some scrapes, but they’ll come out on top. Also, going off a lot of the court records and screenshots of conversations of different key players, what Matt is doing could possibly be a considered a conspiracy and a crime.

[@gaiustacitus4242]

How can WPEngine possibly come out on top? In the best case, WPEngine will only be able to offer customers an older and unsupported version of WordPress. It will become less costly to pay Automattic the requested licensing fee than to absorb the cost of support.

[@ClayAsbury122]

Great analysis of a very dynamic situation. I've been using WordPress to make a living for the last 12 years and have a lot of respect for both Matt Mullenweg and WP engine. Seems like much of this could've been handled and off-line conversations between them.

[@khandakershahi]

It's not dying.

[@gaiustacitus4242]

You're correct. The real alternatives are Drupal and Joomla, not Wix or Squarespace. I've used both in the past and moved away from them.

[@funkygrafix957]

WP Engine's hosting is ridiculously overpriced and they've messed up the Genesis framework. I wouldn't touch either of those products with a barge pole

[@joen5000]

What would you choose instead?

[@NeverClimbing]

@@joen5000 react, vue or angular

[@funkygrafix957]

@@joen5000 Not would, but we choose instead to lease a dedicated server of our own. We have 100% uptime, hourly backups, MailChannels and a mirrored site at a different location, just in case of any eventuality. It costs us 3k a year, but we get a significant return, as we're able to charge a premium for it

[@EvertAlbers]

@@joen5000 Try looking outside the WP ecosystem.

[@thisisoli]

The first thing WP Engine did when they bought Genesis was update all their themes to improve page load speed, make them AMP compatible, etc. Not sure why that would have made Genesis worse?

[@danielcooper4455]

I think the entire community should pitch in for a Wordpress Superbowl Ad. As a community of "creatives" I'm sure they could come up with something...

[@Craylor]

I love this idea!

[@ArleyMcBlain]

i hope you become the next ceo, that was the most optimistic and hopeful speculation i have heard this week

[@tecsmith_info]

I've been building out my own blogging system for the past few months with a view to migrate my customers over to it and away from WordPress. This news just helped speed up that process.

[@CooKingreate]

well you cannot do marketing with 0 or free, so important to donate.

[@techwizpc4484]

7:30 Fears for the future of WP but by blocking WP engine from updates endangers 1.5m + websites. Also 5% is 5% why demand 8% all of a sudden? Greed is truly a deadly sin. If he continues with this it can kill WP soon.

[@Craylor]

The logic behind the 8% is the biggest thing I'm wondering about. He has since stated on social media that his 8% offer has been withdrawn because it's no longer enough. 🤔

[@techwizpc4484]

@@Craylor And he just targeted WP engine. If he really believes WP needs funding then he should brave enough to demand 8% across the board to be fair. But I guess once he calmed down he withdrew his 8%. Someone must have knocked him back to his senses. With that blocking he did he could have caused either a financial or tech crisis. He should be careful with his actions.

[@Craylor]

@@techwizpc4484 Except he didn't withdraw it because he didn't want it anymore.. he said it wasn't enough! He implied in an interview today that he may be going for a hostile takeover of WP Engine as his next steps. Wild stuff unfolding in real-time.

[@techwizpc4484]

@@Craylor Yikes! Can he do that? I get that he made the original WP but thousands of people have already contributed to the thing. It's like the D&D thing all over again. Thousands of authors have contributed to the lore but the copyright holder wants to claim it all.

[@Glamerisx]

because he knows ho much money WPE make. Their prices are insane and they keep all that profit. Sponsoring a single in person events is fk al in the greater scheme of things and doesnt benefit overall development which benefits many more people than a few lucky to attend an event. This host is obviously biased towards them because they his sponsor

[@richardmasters2045]

Full stack bootstrap forever. Most real developers never liked Wordpress now I see why smh

[@RR-ok4wz]

Look everyone! This guy is a REAL developer! 😂

[@supermanbrz]

@@RR-ok4wz Yeah, most real developers never liked it but it's almost 50% of the web, we've really found the only real dev out there

[@_odo]

@richardmasters2045 That’s because Wordpress is for web designers, not web developers. If you can make you website out of Bootstrap, go ahead.

[@D.von.N]

Private equity... say no more!

[@nickm1049]

Based of the advertisement problem you mentioned, is it fair to say much of the WP growth could be coming from webmasters/agencies selling their clients on using WP?

[@Craylor]

Absolutely. In fact, I even get many in my audience reaching out and asking which website platform I think they should use (I don’t always recommend WordPress, I pick what I think is the best for their use case). The average person is turning to Wix, Squarespace, Shopify, or the GoDaddy Website Builder… because those are the platforms they hear about.

[@nickm1049]

@@Craylor sad that if often feels this group is the least listened to when it come to new WP features. The "professional" user wants more CMS functionalities in Core imo, ironically this would also help Automattic with their enterprise clients. ACF & most modules from WPextended plugin should be Core functionalites by now imo

[@Craylor]

I absolutely agree. Matt is now talking about including ACF in Core... I think it's mostly because he wants to stick it to WP Engine, and I think it sets a dangerous precident among plugin developers. However, I think we need *_some_* form of custom post types in Core.

[@elizabethyoung5304]

@@Craylor We’ve needed custom post types for a while now. They may have put some things out in updates over the years, but I think that custom post types should be part of WP’s core functionality from the get go is ridiculous to me. Granted, I haven’t done anything with my blog sites in many years at this point and CPTs (custom post types) has been something I wanted for flipping ever! I don’t want that as a theme, or a plug-in (to which last I checked there’s quite a few, not sure if any of them are any good), I want it as part of WP core itself.

[@elizabethyoung5304]

@@Craylor Forgive my ignorance, it’s been an age; what’s ACF?

[@bluehorse-tube]

You're a smart dude and you did a really good job in explaining what exactly the issue is with WP. We need young people like you who does positive contribution to society. Thank you.

[@GrowPlugins]

Very thoughtful and informative. After watching your video, I agree, companies need to do more brand awareness marketing for WordPress.

[@adminmovie]

BS clickbait title

[@gaiustacitus4242]

The channels hyping the dispute between Automattic and WPEngine are all pushing clickbait titles.

[@kyopan23]

"non biased" lol

[@IgnacioChavez]

If Wordpress powers 43% of the web, how can this be the end of Wordpress?. Because its not

[@PuchoWebSolutions]

Hello from New York City! Where can we find the WordPress Contributor chart at time code 09:23 on the web? Thank you for your informative video.

[@Craylor]

Hi there! This chart was created by rtCamp on their X account: twitter.com/rtCamp/status/1838943567760212148

[@PuchoWebSolutions]

@@Craylor Thank you so much!

[@nino4135]

Yes and no, I agree with you, WordPress has the huge advantage of being open source especially for developers and tech-savvy people, but unfortunately that's it for the rest of humanity. Websites are evolving and everyone wants to be able to build them, that's why other site builders are so successful, precisely because they offer many advantages over WordPress, from custom crm/cms visual builder to better store integration, ... . And if more and more people turn to alternatives, then I can see the end of WordPress slowly approaching, even if I don't hope for it.

[@mwarnas]

You mean they might stop ruining WordPress? Great!

[@zuber7358]

Good points and I agree with the marketing problem that WP is facing. I believe that content creators like you can solve this problem by putting more content out on WP and its ecosystem.

[@Craylor]

Totally! I’ll be continuing to cover WordPress on my channel.

[@cbbcbb6803]

What if WP Engine bought Automatic?

[@L4JP]

Automattic is about 7-8 times the valuation of WP Engine, so that can't happen.

[@Jack_Warner]

If I have to pay for it, I'll go back to hand coding.

[@abrownecreative]

While you are largely right that marketing is the issue, I have to admit that if WordPress doubled down on improving the user interface and the overall user experience, more old dogs like me, as well as hip and cool Gen Z people like you, would start shouting their name from the rooftops all over the world. I tried Squarespace for a while, and although I didn't like it, and quickly returned to WordPress as a result, the interface was so much more modern and easier to navigate. Why is this not possible in an open-source ecosystem? WordPress has felt stuck in the last few decades. It's only because I have the freedom to create completely bespoke websites using no-to-minimal code page builders like Oxygen that I'm sticking around. If WordPress stays stuck in the 20th Century for much longer, I might move to Webflow. It's strange, though. Despite the lack of innovation, I was happy with WordPress simply because I had the freedom that Squarespace couldn't offer, but this recent debacle has just sullied everything. 😞

[@Craylor]

You make a great point! Yes, ultimately I'd like to see the WordPress UI improved. And yes, I've been complacent with the lack of innovation due to the freedom it offers and have similar mixed feelings now.

[@techlogug]

I love the insight shared on the topic as a Gen Z from Uganda sharing more on WordPress and I love your conclusion hope it will be resolved soon

[@tomwhite5380]

Old news click bate.

[@AndreaDelRiva]

Long live WP! Thanks for the update man! Keep up the good work!

[@visualmodo]

Thanks for your video!

[@themusiklabartlabor2697]

Great analysis, they should work more on marketing. Best from Zürich Clay!

[@LyleSpringer]

Very interesting story! Thank you for explaining this as I was a little confused.

[@gaiustacitus4242]

Switching from WordPress to another platform is too costly for most businesses. Take a breath and stop the overreaction; the feared 'doom' isn't coming.

[@PinkKoala-k4s]

The name "WP Engine" is a bit misleading for sure, and many beginners believe that WordPress is behind WP Engine. That's probably the biggest issue here. However, Matts behavior was childish and not handled in a professional way. It feels like a personal attack of some kind. I hope this situation gets resolved, and that the WordPress community can continue to grow and improve WordPress. Matt has done a great job with WordPress over the years, but maybe it's time for him to step aside and let someone else lead, who strongly believes in WordPress and the open-source philosophy.

[@Craylor]

I totally understand the naming confusion. WP Engine is the only (notable) host I can think of that uses "WP" in the name. I agree that it feels personal. There have been many theories as to what could "really" be behind it (maybe they're trying to go public and he doesn't like that?). Either way, the situation was mishandled and is just damaging the WordPress brand and reputation as a whole.

[@gregoriusmike]

One issue is Matt didn't push harder regarding trademark earlier on, as I think he was a bit naïve perhaps.. He has been in communication with WPEngine for many years, however not much progress has been made. WPEngine didn't do themselves any favours by modifying Stripe attribution code taking money that should go to WooCommerce. I think if you're going to make a nearly half a billion dollar a year company off the back of WordPress it's in your best interest to give back.

[@L4JP]

If concern over name confusion is the biggest issue, Matt should have brought it up (directly, not in a blog post) when WP Engine was first founded in 2010. I think the biggest issue is that WP Engine is now big enough to noticeably cut into Automattic's market share.

[@gregoriusmike]

@L4JP He's been talking to them for many years and he says they have led him on. This was in an interview with Prime. It's not so straight forward. I think WP Engine should give more back but legally do they need to... probably not.

[@L4JP]

@@gregoriusmike Yeah, I'm sure there's more to the story than we know. But that doesn't change the fact that Matt has a conflict of interest - he should not hold that much power over the primary access mechanism for open source software that his commercial business benefits from.

[@daveogfans413]

*How creators stopped using SUPERLATIVES and CAPS to SCREAM at their audience* No, but seriously... Most webmasters don't care. Most business owners with a WP website do not care. Nobody really cares one week into the future. It's just silly beef based on emotions and people's principles with regards to funding a free project. Beef like this won't be behind closed doors because heated FOSS discussions always leak to the public one way or another.

[@daveogfans413]

That being said, one company doesn't match contributions although their business model heavily relies on the thing they ought to donate more to. On the other hand, the founder of WordPress needs to change the word "donation" to "tribute" because one can't force donations as opposed to tributes.

[@M0LHA]

Young and hip, ouch that burned lol :)

[@puneetsharma1437]

sponsorship is ad bro

[@donnchadhmcginley3153]

Capitalism, always making money off open source.

[@richardmasters2045]

What is OPEN SOURCE 😂

[@kobe_yorozuya]

so its about money . yes bluehost dodaddy make shit out of money there . 5% kinda good its save alot .more over maybe wordpress AI are possible now does not need to maintain .wordpress on black box environments update all the files dont need programming there in next 10 years

[@JamesBrooksco]

This is a really fantastic summary of the situation. Thank you for being fair and balanced! I find your unique perspective (especially as a Gen Z representative!) really helpful. I hope that influencers in the WordPress space will hear what you have to say 🙌 PS - thanks for the shoutout! Extremely honoured 🙈

[@Craylor]

Thanks for writing that article! I don’t think this video would have been the same without it.

[@MattGreencompguy5]

Very well said, Christian!

[@Craylor]

Thank you!

[@jasonalward]

The number of people defending Silver Lake is shocking.

[@Craylor]

I see both sides to it. Ultimately, no matter where you stand, I wish it could have been handled better by Automattic. We went from zero public mention of this to affecting people's websites in a matter of days.

[@_odo]

@jasonalward Have they done anything wrong, though? They have one full time person working on a project that they don’t need to contribute to (because it’s open source, that’s the entire point), they sponsor conferences and other events, and they provide hosting. If anything, I see the behavior at Automattic to be an issue considering the literal extortion going on

[@collared]

this is why you dont use WP lol whole thing is filled with security risks like i dont belive in wordpress despite it being used by alot other websites

[@Craylor]

What is your favorite platform?

[@techwizpc4484]

Not to mention heavy on loading times, especially if there's so many plugins included.

[@collared]

@@Craylor ive only ever had small-scale websites so theyve always been coded from scratch

[@fairychan3722]

​@collared Oh really? I’ve been using WordPress version 4.9 since 2018 and have never updated it. I'm using a free theme created in 2014, and of course, I’ve made some changes to the theme. The load time on my website is quite fast, and I've been using WordPress since 2013, and it has never been hacked even once. FYI, my site gets over 100k visitors per day. Saying that WordPress is full of security holes makes me laugh🤣🤣

[@fairychan3722]

@@collared Oh really? I’ve been using WordPress version 4.9 since 2018 till now and have never updated it. I'm using a free theme created in 2014, and of course, I’ve made some changes to the theme. The load time on my website is quite fast, and I've been using WordPress since 2013, and it has never been hacked even once. FYI, my site gets over 100k visitors per day. Saying that WordPress is full of security holes makes me laugh🤣🤣

[@visualmodo]

Really good content!

[@jeffxcc]

Freedom!

[@jouebien]

Adoption is really had because there's a large portion of people who won't choose it because it's verry rarely the right tool for the job. Sure you can duct tape it together to do stuff but then some pore sole has to look after that duct tape. Sure you can duct tape it together to do stuff but 9 times out of 10 it's by someone who has no idea what they are doing and makes a mess of the entire project. There's so many people who have been burnt by a garbage WordPress project & you have to get over that noise and the hype of the rest of the web's new framework/tools circle jerk.

[@Craylor]

Yeah, it's true that WordPress is a blogging tool at its core. I see that perspective... but I still think it's a brand awareness issue more than a product issue (though I agree that the product can be improved). Perhaps my thinking is wrong and people do think of WordPress instinctively and shy away from it because they've heard horror stories about it.

[@jazzyniko]

I'm building website for the company I work for ( not as a developer ) using HTML CSS and JS. In the future if it needs saving DATA i will use Laravel or Django... Or maybe express with mongoDB. I'm not a professional dev but with my knowledge in computer science and Linux servers + AI I'm confident i can build a small robust system 😊 PS: I tried WordPress a few times and it didn't fit with my style of building web apps.

[@lancegfoin9117]

It's your choice and it should be respected.

[@dmmeteo]

If you really believe in open source why you don’t use ghost then? It is better for influencers and at all😂 and no php any more😅

[@Craylor]

I've used WordPress for a few reasons. (1) it's what I learned years ago and am most familiar with, (2) the plugin marketplace is far wider due to its massive market share, and therefore, I feel the "ceiling" of flexibility is much higher than Ghost. However, this situation has me thinking about Ghost a lot. Considering doing a comparison video... Stay tuned 👀

[@dmmeteo]

@@Craylor that’s good idea, I’ll wait for comparison video😉

[@16cr22]

The situation is complex. I watched the interview. According to Matt, he claims that WPEngine has modified core WordPress, so it is a different experience from the actual platform, "like modding core WordPress." His point is that they shouldn't use this language to claim it is vanilla WordPress. This is also true for other open-source platforms, such as Android, licensing, and Google, for example. It also doesn't seem like they're taking him seriously when he expressed his concern, stating, "probably his fault; might not be a leader who should lead the platform." It is everyone's fault, but Matt should not have banned them. He will lose the battle. He should have at least warned customers that WPEngine is violating their terms and given them at least three months to make a decision. If they had the intention, WPEngine had his communication widgets blocked anyway, so direct communication would have been out of the question.

[@oregonherb7538]

AI 👉WILL DESTROY SOYPRESS😂

[@oregonherb7538]

INCREASE THE DOSE MORE SOY…😂

[@xwinglover]

Drupal is more powerful anyway, without the add-ons being "owned" by single developers.

[@oregonherb7538]

SOYCAMP😂

[@healthadvice3091]

i hope if wp will disappear business owners will transfer to wix

[@oregonherb7538]

SoyPress😂

[@ondrejmikulcik4529]

There were no gen Z people because no one likes PHP nowadays and WP is PHP

[@AdamFiregate]

@@ondrejmikulcik4529 Go and Rust CMSs for the win. 🙂

[@lancegfoin9117]

Okay...

[@Craylor]

Think bigger picture... I'm not a developer. I don't know PHP. I'm a *user* of WordPress. A CMS doesn't get to 43% market share by requiring all users of it to know the language that powers it.

[@ondrejmikulcik4529]

@@Craylor Yep, my point of view is biased I guess. I see it as a developer and none of my friends from the industry are using WP now

[@developermonir]

😂lol

[@rGxDale]

Just when i can generate code at an instant, the most popular cms is going to die. Hmmmm

[@journeytocoding816]

I can still download Wordpress and can use it.

[@jorgevelascodelgado]

I love WP Engine is destroyed. Woooho!! bye bye woke staff