OFFICIAL STATEMENT: I will not fork WordPress

[@DaedalicMind]

Equating OOP with "powerful efficient full programming languages" reveals he has no idea what he's talking about.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

You're the clueless one. Please tell me about all the codebases you've shipped and maintained for over a decade. These excuses are hilarious to me because, in reality, most people simply don't have the horsepower to imagine and manage an OOP system in their head. Inheritance is used by nature but shunned by crappy, fake "developers." 🤡

[@CodeFun691]

​@@TheRealPearsonified Rust, Go, Elixir, Erlang, and many many other languages would like to have a word with you about the "shooting below its potential efficiency" parts. I don't know who you are but one thing is for sure: just stick to php or whatever you have been doing. You have clearly never seen or written decent software that can also be called "efficient" when you put OOP as a requirement for anything. But hey ... what do we expect from someone talking about WordPress. I also just realized something: You are just a god damn theme designer. GTFO here with this nonesense ...

[@xinaesthetic]

Find it odd that you think object orientation is somehow a prerequisite for efficiency. Not suggesting WordPress doesn't have a lot of legacy inefficient code.

[@perfect.stealth]

This

[@TheRealPearsonified]

It's fascinating that all the pushback to my stated premise garnered the *exact* same number of likes. It's almost as if someone unleashed their minions to try and astroturf the truth 🤔

[@xinaesthetic]

@@TheRealPearsonified I think it's more like there's only quite a small number of comments, so anyone with a similar view that happens to see one responds similarly to all. I certainly haven't been unleashing any minions, I just saw your video because KZbin algorithm. I think mine maybe was the first such comment to pick up that point.

[@xinaesthetic]

@@TheRealPearsonified it's fairly fashionable in some circles these days to talk bad of oop. Doesn't mean it's true, although the code base I'm working on has a somewhat bad oop model (things inherit behaviours they shouldn't etc) that I'm gradually refactoring, and it so happens what I'm moving towards is more functional. I think in your video you talk about two aspects of efficiency; efficiency for developing / maintaining and computational resources... I'm sure WordPress suffers from a somewhat inconsistent design that's emerged over the decades that could benefit from being clearer in it's architecture, be that oop or something else.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

@@xinaesthetic 20ish comments on 2 nearly identical posts is not organic. To be clear, I don't think you did this (because I don't think you could muster that much of an audience to come here and do your bidding).

[@joshuasosso]

The argument for OOP was never about efficiency. It was always about maintenance and extensibility. Inheritance and encapsulation are tools for code organization. "If we organize things this way, it'll be easier to work with in the long run." Many times, OOP methodologies actually work against performance due to the overhead usually created by the many abstractions. (Obv varies from codebase to codebase) I agree that forking Wordpress isn't a "good bet" as you said

[@lukaszbien2904]

Yup, OOP is the pinnacle of performance...

[@TheRealPearsonified]

Sarcasm isn't going to improve your performance at _anything_

[@DylanEdd_1]

@@TheRealPearsonified Neither does being a keyboard warrior. Developers are free to make their own choices and decisions in what they use, whether use OOP, functional or whatever else. At the end of the day an end consumer doesn't really care as long as it runs well, and isn't extremely buggy. Use the right tool for what you want to make, and at the same time I don't get the point of gate-keeping who can be a "developer" just because they don't like oop ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Personally I only work with Object-Oriented languages but it's interesting to see other perspectives.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

@@DylanEdd_1 I hope you don't code for a living. Treating fundamental differences merely as "different flavors" shows you don't understand what you're doing.

[@thegreenxeno9430]

When you say OOP is efficient, I assume you mean it's efficient to modify or maintain. I've personally written plenty of OOP code that could never be described as running efficiently.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

It's absolutely possible to write crappy OO code. In fact, most of the OO code I've seen in practice reveals that the developer doesn't really get the point of inheritance. But the fact most people cannot craft good OO code is not an indictment of that method, but rather an indictment of themselves as developers.

[@akivamajowka5742]

payload?

[@_ncko]

A new CMS that is API compatible with WordPress, but also has it's own, better mechanisms for themes and plugins. Very ambitious.

[@perfect.stealth]

I'm not even sure who would use it. You got Wordpress for people that just want a site and doesn't care about all the technical stuff, and you got something like Laravel and Statamic for the more technical guys.

[@MagnumCarta]

Call the CMS Blackjack&Hookers. 😂

[@bluecollaruniversity]

Thank you for this explanation, chris. I've been using thesis for many years now and it just runs. And I love that about your systems.

[@guristu]

Truth is WP was poorly written from the beginning. It's been at least 15 years since I haven't touched it and I still have nightmares about the security wholes I had to deal with. Then there were the damn plugins one had to keep up with, sloppily written, with no regard for security or good programming. I have no idea why that platform took off and is still around. On the other hand... Windows is a thing too.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

Despite its myriad shortcomings, WP has done a great job with security over the years.

[@PlanetJeroen]

@@TheRealPearsonified they eventually picked up, yes .. but that was loooong after every scriptkiddy learned the ropes on their awesome platform.

[@ChristopherMurtagh]

I agree that forking WordPress would not server the greater good. On the topic of building a new one, having built one myself back in the day (pre-wordpress days), it would be bonkers to do it from scratch. There are frameworks (Laravel would be my choice) that would do most of the heavy lifting that would be a way better strategy. There's no sense in re-inventing the wheel.

[@Darnell]

Great explanation! I think this is the reason why Ghost started from scratch. Speaking of the latter, what do you think of their code‽ How efficient do you think Ghost is‽

[@punishedbarca761]

Anything that's one size fits all is going to be inefficient (every CMS). The truth is that the major problems with WordPress are security holes that are almost impossible to stay on top of because it needs to interop with every shitty plugin your SEO specialist downloads. I think Ghost is a good platform but any system that's "one size fits all, download any plug-in" has these problems.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

I respect the Ghost project but don't care for the codebase at all. It's just WP translated into the JS framework space, which is an issue of preference but not efficiency. IMO, the CMS platform of record should be written in PHP, which is guaranteed to work on every Apache server on the planet and is far easier for practitioners to maintain at scale. (It's easier to maintain a single codebase rather than one that relies on hundreds of other inclusions that were not written for that particular program.)

[@perfect.stealth]

What's wrong with you lol. I personally prefer OOP but your take is still very weird, that everything has to be object oriented.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

If you refer to yourself as a "developer," please stop after reading this. You don't even understand CS 101.

[@perfect.stealth]

@@TheRealPearsonified Reading a bunch of your replies literally made me giggle. You're a funny one. So salty.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

@@perfect.stealth I'm mostly here to have fun 😁

[@RobertoFernandezLarsson]

Go for it Chris, build a clean CMS from scratch!

[@gaius100bc]

OOP is a joke, an old joke and moldy joke, but still a joke, the kind of joke that does not age like fine wine, but more like milk.

[@perfect.stealth]

You're serious? 😂😂😂😂

[@TheRealPearsonified]

Found another commenter who lacks the mental horsepower to work with inheritance. That's ok-this is the norm, not the exception. Leave the heavy lifting to people like me.

[@PlanetJeroen]

nah .. the joke is middle management, usually in the form of project managers or team leads, declaring a tool to be a holy grail, and making it a solution to every problem. thats the curse of having all specialists.

[@gaius100bc]

@@TheRealPearsonified I might feel insulted, if only those insults weren't coming from PHP "programmer", who's opinions, as everyone knows, has as much weight as those coming from a 5y old.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

@@gaius100bc I can't lie-it feels great to be the most accomplished 5yo in the world.

[@These_Old_Engines]

Why would he fork it when he can just keep using WP for free?

[@TheRealPearsonified]

Because I'd like to work in paradise and not a favela.

[@daedaluxe]

I'm spoony knifing wordpress, only noobs fork.

[@MagnumCarta]

Wanna play chopsticks?

[@JustSources]

Come on Chris, sending out emails containing white text with a bright yellow background???

[@TheRealPearsonified]

Forward the email you received to the email address that sent it. Perhaps the formatting is messed up in certain inboxes. I'd love to take a closer look.

[@apestogetherstrong341]

Functional programming For The Win.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

It makes perfect sense you'd cheer for something that represents the top end of what you're able to understand.

[@apestogetherstrong341]

@@TheRealPearsonified I am able to understand OOP, that is how I know functional is better. OOP programmers, however, don't understand functional programmer. They really are unable to understand basic things, being stuck with their object dogmas

[@TheRealPearsonified]

@@apestogetherstrong341 My guy, you are just embarrassing yourself now.

[@apestogetherstrong341]

@@TheRealPearsonified tell me, what language has the most powerful Object System? Do you know? It's common lisp, with it's Common Lisp Object System (CLOS). And it is a functional language. So functional languages do object orientation better than many Object oriented language. Alan Kay, the guy who coined "Object Oriented", has a quote, where he says Erlang is closer to his idea than any of the C++ copies which call themselves Object Oriented. And Erlang is also a functional language. Go educate yourself.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

@@apestogetherstrong341 You're just babbling. Most of the internet runs on PHP-not lisp, Erlang, or even C. Those languages have merit within the topic of computer science more generally, but bringing them into this discussion shows how unserious you are. You're just desperate to be "right," but you can't even discern context. Perfect example of what Nassim Taleb calls, "intellectual yet idiot."

[@RoastLambShanks]

I wouldn't even be using PHP in this day and age.

[@TheRealPearsonified]

Lotta people on the JS train, but nobody knows what's in the giant pile of dependencies.

[@RoastLambShanks]

@@TheRealPearsonified Yeah I'm not a huge fan of that whole js/typescript thing.