CRAZY Conclusion! Limping Jeep RUBICON - Part 3 (P0390, P0394)

[@mark98070]

If this Jeep was mine I would pay all your labor & all parts! And I would be extremely understanding and grateful that you fixed it while others could not. Awesome job Ivan

[@kevincampbell8298]

A lot of these types of diagnosis are not just cut and dry read a TSB and done for sure! There maybe should be a TSB for these!

[@111-c7x2t]

But why? The entire car is worth a few grand

[@kevincampbell8298]

@@111-c7x2t any vehicle is only worth what a person will pay for it. You are correct. Every car/vehicle culture has who knows how many people spending was too much to keep a vehicle alive. A friend of mine has a shop. He does so many jeeps. constant upgrades and people sink so much money i to them. Its unreal.

[@ckm-mkc]

@@111-c7x2t Are you crazy? The cheapest 2017 Jeep Wrangler Rubicons are around $20k. Def worth fixing as a new one is around $50k.... But, if you have a running/driving/accident free Jeep Wrangler Rubicon you want to sell me for a few thousand, I have cash....

[@janpur1417]

I thought the owner would give him a generous tip! man that jeep needed a wire harness, then an engine... imagine out of pocket pay if he went to any other shop.

[@GS-lh2nx]

To be fair, most of us are not looking for missing or loose fasteners inside a running engine that are integral for it to run properly. Plus, you probably gave a few hundred people some guidance on what to look for when they run into this. That cam and phaser was a pretty educated guess. You are by far the best of most of us. Thanks for the great content and education. We are all better because of it.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I hope my struggle with this Jeep helps other people avoid some major headaches 😅

[@dendkmac]

​@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics The struggle real with the code set, such a deep dive into the unknown on this

[@ckm-mkc]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics How many miles did that engine have? IRC you showed in the first video, but I can't find it now.

[@joesmo4749]

The 3.6 pentastar sucks!

[@ricebike]

@@joesmo4749 well, any newer vehicle with 1/3 plastic parts in the engine bay that really should have been made with metal & excessive control modules intertwined is the next arena for these techs to keep on their toes. This is definitely a tsb type of deal to warn any other owner with this Mopar Fiat engine because that's an engineer oops to not have those plugs locked into place

[@leaddog54]

I'd be worried where the original bolt/plug went. Hopefully just in the sump.

[@ibidu1]

Thats what I was thinking, he better not tip that jeep on its side and drop a bolt into moving parts.

[@michaelgleason4791]

Came here to say this. What a ridiculous design.

[@182QKFTW]

I dropped one a few months ago on that side after finding one backed out. I was able to fish it out with a borescope and magnet. It was sitting on the tensioner....was sweating bullets! Thought I was going to have to pull the cover:/ I stuffed soooo many rags down there for the next 3 that an atom couldn't pass through!

[@fsdweaver9199]

Or that it would automagically reappear while you're drive down the freeway at 70. 🤯

[@zyzzyva303]

@@fsdweaver9199 No hope of it screwing itself back in, I suppose. 🤔

[@irfanbedretdin3591]

Wow Nice Job!! How about oil plugs in bank 1? Should them have been checked for good measures as well? You will probably find the missing bolt in the oil sump. 😊

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

My thought exactly 🙂

[@182QKFTW]

I found 1 backed out while replacing exhaust cams because of rocker failure. The other 3 were tight. However, I removed, cleaned & applied loctite to all 4

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

@@182QKFTW That's working preventively. Good job!

[@herbieschwartz9246]

When finding the metal on the position magnets, I think I would have pulled the pan to see what is there and would have found the gallery plug then. Armchair mechanic here :-)

[@SHSPVR]

Nice catch Ivan but I still find it to be bit odd that as it still had good oil pressure, man I would be wanting to fine in that missing bolt before something else catastrophic happens assuming that it didn't find its way into the bottom of oil pan, And I would definitely check the other head too while I was at it and locked tight them in as well as the preventative measure.

[@aymanabouseif2915]

Exactly

[@paulstandaert5709]

The oil pressure is tested near the main bearings, not up in the heads. I cannot remember if these gaskets had restrictions in them, but often times head gaskets do. So, the oil pressure at the mains was good, but it was bleeding off in the head. Interestingly, excess wear doesn't seem to be a problem due to these bolts falling out. Unless they do, and this is why they eat up cams?

[@smokeskull]

@paulstandaert5709 these have the variable displacement oil pump so monitoring the solenoid duty cycle might reveal a system leak.

[@fieldsofomagh]

Who could have guessed? The new site is well worth the $50 for the information alone. Still can't believe that a crucial bolt could loosen up. Well done to Keith for his helpful contribution.

[@ehsnils]

@@paulstandaert5709 Normally it's not the gaskets that have the restrictor but it's often found in the head or the block.

[@andyg5004]

Appreciate your honesty Ivan. It takes time to fix jeeps and you should be paid for all your time

[@stevec5657]

That is a crazy issue and fix. Parts cannon aside, you were able to share that resolution with all your viewers and anyone we know that's experiencing this phenomenon. Now we know there are oil galley plugs behind the phasers. Great job Ivan and hats off to Keith 👏

[@hikerJohn]

It's like 100 people knew about this before today and now because of this video THOUSANDS of people know about it . . . I watch 99% of your videos but was more interested in this episode because I'm a Jeep owner.

[@howardbeall4144]

would it be worth a new valve cover gasket and labor just to check the other head gallery plugs?

[@mikefoehr235]

I was wondering that myself. Ticking time bomb

[@russellstephan6844]

Yep! Pull `em, Loctite `em, and sleep well going forward. Although, if it was my vehicle, I'd go the extra miles and safety wire the two bolts in-place for the obvious self-documenting benefits.

[@calholli]

If it's not broke, don't fix it. That would definitely be something to check later though.. if your gasket leaks and you have to go in there anyway; I'd pull those other plugs and put locktite on them, since you're already in there.

[@keltecshooter]

Absolutely

[@walterdodds3925]

Absolutely, apparently it should be required maintenance.

[@10100rsn]

Wow. Those oil galley plugs actually just fall out all the way like that. That old bolt must be at the bottom of the oil pan by now just living the good life swimming in the good stuff. Who knows, it might have a friend some day. ;P

[@marlu6373]

yep i assume is from the vibration of the engine.

[@cat22_a1]

@@marlu6373 This should be a recall item.

[@andrewedwards6548]

Perfect timing. Just finished watching the first 2 parts. Every mechanic has a job that haunts them, then you get someone else who fixes it in 5 mins 😂

[@calholli]

That's how it always works.. It seems so easy and obvious once you fight the problem. :)

[@mr.mister3321]

I work at a dealer, 8-10 are usually oil galley bolts 😂

[@mr.mister3321]

Lots of different codes can be fixed by that because it’s causes low oil pressure,

[@ShanesGettingHandy]

@@mr.mister3321 NOW you tell him.... 😂

[@lo1234-w9r]

Interesting problem I actually did some research on it, most of bulletins suggest an oil pressure problem, failure of the cam relearn confirmed it. Just shows how easy it is to get pulled down the wrong path.

[@2nickles647]

I appreciate all you Ivan. You are honest. If I were the customer. I would pay for the whole shibang. New cams and all. In the end. I've learned a whole hell of a lot of information. Your awesome Ivan.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I learned a lot too! Yet ANOTHER weird Pentastar problem 😅

[@joevaagen6170]

Man ivan, when it comes to KZbin mechanics I can count on 1 hand which ones I would trust if I'm working on my own vehicles. You and Eric O are the ones I watch RELIGIOUSLY. Way to go this was a rough one!

[@EdsVideosRcool]

If they could only multiply many times and form a vultron of auto mechanics for us all? lol

[@jeffreybowd1249]

There must be great mechanics out there the problem is how you find them, maybe someone can develop a database of repairers with a rating scale or something similar.

[@kellyd887]

I guess keeping a good reputation means having to eat the cost once in a while. The dealerships certainly would have charged the customer for their mistake. Good job Ivan & good on you integrity wise. The world needs more of that.

[@toshayonguard4253]

Information is knowledge……this is why like minded people watch KZbin because like myself most people watch these channels to learn. Great job Ivan. 🤘🏼🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@legrandeverde2147]

I've been into 3 or 4 of those pentastar engines for other issues. After seeing this I'll be taking care of those bolts as a preventative measure any time i have free access to them. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos Ivan.

[@robertmazzawy8322]

Maybe going above and beyond, but I would think you should check bank 1 for loose plug bolts given problem on Bank 2.

[@henrydunbar397]

Or at least ask the customer if he wants to spend a little more to have it checked.

[@johncooper4637]

I am more paranoid than that, I would have had him pull the pan too.

[@DiagNetwork]

Thanks for the shout out!

[@norcal715]

Way to stick to it and find a 100% resolution for the customer. Thank you Ivan.

[@OPPlaidDoesStuff]

As a customer I would gladly pay for new parts, lost labor = education for you! Good stuff, definitely gave you a thumbs up on this one. Also, this is why I drive an early 4th Gen 4runner, pre VVT.

[@billsmith2212]

That website is GOLD ! It's always easier to brainstorm than be the first to hack a path through the jungle . Many dealers would have needlessly replaced an engine . They don't care - it's not their money ! I would send the video to the CEO and tell him this is horrible engineering ! Great lesson . Most would have walked away . BTW , that one post was from ATS . You are in good company .

[@calholli]

That look of dread in the intro.. when you thought you were done, but you have to start all over again. :) I've been there too many times

[@robertoruiz7069]

GREAT JOB Ivan,If the dealership gave up on this ,SHAME on them.they should have had this info.no excuse for that. I'm surprised however that an oil pressure gauge is not standard on this jeep. I believe 8 lb on idle is to low,my guess is 20 psi,for newer 1990 and up.Unless it has 500,000 miles with worn bearings.OR diluted oil,from gas contamination.The rabbit hole was DEEP this time my friend.WE all fell in.haha thanks for sticking with it Ivan.

[@ricebike]

LoL you should watch the recent south main auto video where the local stealership doesn't have any qualified techs that can do a simple tpms relearn 😅

[@genedunn9283]

Imagine how much more reliable modern engines would be if they did away with VVT and cylinder deactivation/afm! I bet there are quite a few people who would sacrifice a little bit of power and fuel economy for reliability.

[@80SWoods]

It’s really interesting to understand the cause and effect of something like cam phasing and how something like oil pressure can be overlooked. It’s not a “direct” step of the process for cam phasing, but it is needed for it to occur. Great series and I learned a lot on this one. Thank you!

[@Cheepchipsable]

Many of them work on oil pressure, so it seems like something that should have been thought about at some stage. Maybe because it seemed OK after warming up? Was also thinking too bad he didn't have some known good parameters to compare with.

[@danoakes8680]

This is the experience we all go through. You called the repair based on what you find thru diag. procedure . When we miss the mark, we learn and eat it. The experience will pay you back in the future. Don't hesitate or be bashful when charge out labor is legitimate. Your reputation means more than eating a few parts. As I have said before, experience has it's own reward. Your honesty in the industry is commendable and as professionals we need more of it. Thanks to all the tech info that is available to us pros. Thanks Ivan. The old school guy.

[@cullenmiller8170]

Great case study and conclusion. It reminded me of 63CSI that came to me with a bearing failure. After replacing all bearings, oil pump and polishing crankshaft. I found oil pressure sensor unplugged. I plugged it in and light was on and no oil pressure to the cylinder head. After tons of research I found out that BMW had changed engine block design and had an extra oil bore by the filter adapter. I ended up threading the hole and installing a plug to fix that problem.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wow that's CRAZY!

[@slopsec2358]

What an awesome journey! So glad you allowed us to ride along! Now when this happens to my 2014 I'll now exactly where to look. THANK YOU!

[@carguy0000]

Hey Ivan great video , would it be a good idea to check the oil gallery plugs on the other bank for tightness ?

[@Land2020-w6w]

Ivan, I am a a loss of yout patience and determination. You are defently in a league of your own. So much respect. One of the best vids so far.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

Crazy, Ivan! It's mind boggling that oil gallery plugs can come loose this easy. Was an expensive learning curve, but you won't get caught again! Great job!

[@kimwinthernielsen9434]

Activating the vvt solenoids one by one was a brilliant idea. Great diagnostic work. I wonder where the missing bolt went?

[@engeneer_ru5827]

Why is this useful feature not included in the "ideal" thinktool?

[@Belal-Khan]

That was my question. It would be worth dropping the pan to see if it made its way there. Better to grab it before it plugs up the oil pump or makes it's way through the engine

[@abdul-kabiralegbe5660]

​@@engeneer_ru5827 The functionality in a scan tool depends on the vehicle manufacturer.

[@hillcrinton1416]

the jeep owner should have paid for the parts because he was quoted a new engine by many other mechanic....Ivan is the most Honest man ever...LOVE you Ivan...

[@davidzajano1983]

Two wrongs do not make a right. The mechanic who said tye engine needed to be replaced was wrong. Neither Ivan or the owner should have to pay for that failed repair. Ivan, eventually, made the correct diagnosis. He knowingly and reluctantly fired the parts cannon and when that cannon misfired he ate the loss. Replacing the cam and phaser was a calculated risk on Ivan's part, and not really a mistake from where I sit. Hopefully he will be able to sell the cam and the phaser somewhere down the line.

[@simonilett998]

I'm now worried about bank one having the same problem lurking ready to strike at any time. Also, hopefully the missing bolt made it safely down into the sump and not skipping around the front end somewhere🤣 A scope capture after the 'fix' would've been interesting, to see if the mismatched trigger patterns are more closely re-aligned now🤔

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

See link in description for all the scope captures 👆

[@simonilett998]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Cheers Ivan, nice work as always👍 I tried to view the waveforms, but I can't seem to find an app in the Play store that can open the waveform file format🤔

[@richb419]

good catch, I wonder if the other side has loose gallery plugs too.

[@nes2123]

Good morning Ivan , much respect str8 up from Boston, MA

[@hrdworkin7633]

Car engines today rely heavily on oil condition and pressure. Had to walk around the house to get to the front door on this one. Great video series.

[@RCCustomRepairs]

Awesome repair, and much respect to being a true professional in showing you make mistakes too. Shows you're an honest technician and take pride in what you do.👌

[@ctech14367]

What about the other head, should they be checked?

[@leonardodavinci303]

I will add my standing ovation for a job well done. I actually think the parts added were a necessary part of the diagnosis journey. They were a reasonable call.

[@jerryking2418]

That was a hard one. With perfect 20/20 hindsight, the missing bolt would have been caught during camshaft remove/replace. Very well done.

[@crisprtalk6963]

50$/year for Diag network seems like a steal for a guy like you. Great value there.

[@braddofner]

Its always a good morning waking up to a conclusion!

[@wallebo]

Nice! Hard work, intelligence, and honesty. Ivan, your super power is that you are not pretentious. You, sir, are the complete package.

[@amundsen575]

great conclusion, first instinct would be the noisy rattle that should not be.Our senses should not be overlooked what a PITA!

[@fredautos]

Great diagnosis ivan. . Dealing with Issues You haven't deal with before is quite always very challenging and time consuming. But Big up U conquered!😊👍

[@ckm-mkc]

I wish I had known this a few months ago - did the valve cover gaskets on the same engine in a Grand Cherokee - could have checked these at that time. Might still be worth doing to prevent future issues....

[@marcokahny709]

Everybody that owns a 3.6 Pentastar should be out taking their valve covers off 15 minutes after watching this 😛

[@robertlacob8831]

Ivan, when I heard that rattling, I thought about low oil pressure, somewhere. Looks like it was a great guess. Sometimes the answers are so simple that we are blinded by all the new technology! This affects all of us at one time or another. Another great fix and learning experience for all.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

So let's say the hypothesis is "low oil pressure". 1) How do you PROVE that? 2) How do you SOLVE that? The final answer may be simple, but the diagnosis is anything but simple ;)

[@robertlacob8831]

As you did, inquire at other jeep dealerships and independent shops for experience.

[@glennfoster7288]

Glad you were able to figure that out. Unusually problem for sure but does make sense. I think the only thing I would’ve done is check the other head to make sure those plugs were tight.

[@ricebike]

Not check, but use lock tite on all 4 plugs 😢 they'll definitely get loose over time since there was no lock agent in the OEM 🔩

[@kellygibson7299]

Unreal. Was listening to this driving and shaking my head the whole time. Explains the erratic scope readings for sure. Just about needed another engine, alright. Absolutely ridiculous from Jeep and I’m sure the customer is grateful as hell for the fix.

[@AP9311]

Wow, after watching the series. Just that bolt caused all the problems!! Just wow! Unbelievable at least you learned something and use that in future! Hope it didn't cost you too much on the new parts you paid for. Great series Ivan!

[@NewLevelAuto]

It was a fun one! Glad the link helped out. I find tons of great information there myself. And great to share my finds as well.

[@jannepo]

Just watched all 3 parts. I have had success, by fixing everything which is clearly wrong, before digging in deeper. Like the rattle after start in this case. If every engine of this type do not rattle, there is an reason why this one does. Only after sorting out things that are clearly not working properly, you can have reliable results when you dig in deeper. When you have a shop, this is harder to do, because you can not "fix everything". Btw, in addition to oscilloscope, I have found the mechanics stethoscope, quite useful locating the origin of the sound.

[@paulspooner-q6k]

i have the same opinion, running a shop is different than a utube channel. i still don't know why they wont give how long it took in hours it actually took to fix the problem, then people would no why shops may not put that much effort into these issues. they would go broke or have to charge a customer 8hrs or beyond and that would be more than most people would want to pay plus eating like his first diag with camshaft replacement part that he got wrong. shop in business vs utuber very different scenarios. but!!!!!!!!!!!!! im glad they do these cause it does help all of us!!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@paulspooner-q6k I run both a specialty shop AND a KZbin channel 😜 This one was 9/10 on the diagnostic difficulty scale when seeing the issue for the first time. Regardless, communication with the customer is crucial when faced with bizarre time consuming diagnostic cases. Everything must be documented and hard data recorded. Then present that to the customer and be 100% honest if you can GUARANTEE that the recommended repair will resolve the customer complaint 👍

[@jannepo]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics High Five to that! That is an extremely complicated job. Have a great weekend Ivan!

[@viking.200]

I would pay for the parts, it's new parts, and it's going in my car and I would still have saved a lot of money compared to another engine, and the car is fixed.

[@bearg4019]

Lmfao. I'm so glad..my 1987 C J -7...has. Zero...Bull in it..this my second jeep..today's vehicles have so many unnecessary tech. Thank God we have this gentleman that will find and fix...I've got my mechanic watching...

[@MrOverstuffedcow]

Great video Ivan. I typically work on PCs and have experienced this more than once where a 50 cent part was the cause versus a $50 card. I really appreciate seeing your honesty and integrity in not billing the customer for the wrong diagnosis.

[@gorak9000]

There's a lot of other electronics out there where a 50 cent part repairs / saves a $1100 power supply, or $70 worth of parts saves a $3000 repair! PC's are so commodity that everything is cheap and the diagnosis time might not even be worth it - that's not true for all electronics!

[@MrOverstuffedcow]

Fully agree with that. I had a 50 cent mosfet fix a hundred dollar blower motor resistor

[@gs3504]

Who would have thought that was the prob!! Great job Ivan!!

[@petermartinez5573]

I could see the look of frustration on your face at the beginning of this video. But as usual you stuck with it and resolved the problem. You had to eat a very expensive unnecessary part which is unfortunate. However, you can take solace in knowing that you will save others a lot of money. Thanks for all the great video's and sharing your knowledge.

[@davidshettlesworth1442]

Thank you for this excellent video. Please let the Jeep dealer mechanics and all Jeep DIYers out there hear what you have gone through (a living Bad Place) with the missing bolts causing the throwing of the codes. This is big news and it seems a common problem for this engine! Happy that you were victorious! "Shout the news from the mountain tops! Job Well Done Sir! Carry On!

[@johnstancato8785]

Just curious did you check the plugs on the other side to make sure they're not finger tight or backing out if this side came loose that side probably is working loose too excellent work as always great job 👍👍

[@kevincampbell8298]

Even DIY guys should join and read up on diags on that network! That start up noise just felt oil pressure related. i thought maybe the phaser was somehow leaking oil or plugged or something. No clue on the design of them. Only thing I miss about not staying in this trade is the troubleshooting stuff because I love it.

[@chrissmith7655]

Hi Ivan, we knew you would sort it. Many thanks from UK.

[@mmichaeldonavon]

Great job Ivan. Loved the diag. Was on the edge of my seat the whole time. :-) I have to agree with some the commenters who wondered "where did that plug go? " Was probably in the pan. (I think, "no harm no foul".) Reminded me of a USAF Cargo aircraft job, a hundred years ago. :-) (The plane was a C-141B). A tech removed and replaced one of the 8 or 10 top-wing mounted fuel quantity probe sensors. (Was a capacitance fuel qty system). I had to inspect the installation and sign the plane off as airworthy for flight. I looked at the old fuel probe "sensor" and saw it was missing one small side mount screw that held the internal parts of the probe together.. I asked: "where is that last probe mount screw? " The tech said: "It must be down in the fuel tank." I could not certify the aircraft for flight, so that flight was cancelled. (Big hassle) The fuel tank in question was opened up, and sure enough, the screw was at the bottom of the tank. Don't think it could have moved into the fuel lines and into one of the engines - but you never know. I still remember that episode. N6395 Ret. Aircraft Avionics Systems. I had a lot of explaining to do. :-)

[@dominicm2175]

Unfortunately there’s no substitute for experience and am personally very thankful for videos like this and most especially the repair forums which have saved me countless hours of not only troubleshooting but the little tricks on the actual repairs

[@promastersonly1419]

Well done, young man. What sucks about this repair is without specialized knowledge/outside assistance it would unlikely that you would find that. Oil pressure was off of what it should be, but there’s no way to know what it should be without other Pentastars to compare it too. Those gallery plugs arent mentioned in Alldata, which is really where this quirk needs to reside. If you didnt have anyone to ask, what the hell would you think to do? Replace the head? Start chasing oil pumps? Throw phasers at it? Kick it out of the shop? Even with research, that problem usually comes back as P0016 or P0017 cam position slow response. Not the codes you had to go on. Even if cranked it with the valve cover off, you’d be unlikely to spot that missing bolt, and you NEVER would have spotted the ones that are finger loose, which is usually what they are. To make matters worse, I GUARANTEE a dealer would have sold the guy an $11,000 engine. Guaranteed! The upside? From here forward, anybody who searches those codes will find this video, and there will be MUCH rejoicing.

[@gutsngorrrr]

I'm sure the customer will be happy, even if this cost a lot in diagnostics, because they were told they needed a new engine, which would have been a lot more.

[@lanehammer]

I’m a diesel guy I walked away from variable valve, timing and some of the crazy things that Auto manufactures do for HP and fuel, mileage . but I had to get a grasp of some theory and your video laid it out. Totally cool… What I do know is this - is that getting lubrication to the valve train is a major thing on Diesels too, By the way, I’ve never torqued anything that had to do with being a pressure retention, kind of plug to such a nominal torque spec… if I heard it right maybe 12 inch pounds should be 12 foot pounds!

[@TheCarCrazyGuy]

Great job Ivan. Sometimes we make mistakes but learn from them. Knowledge is power!

[@stevenakn1]

That's just ducky great work Ivan he must be very happy not needing a new engine. No rattle no damage 😊

[@stevenwolfgang2744]

So where’s the factory installed bolt? Also, hindsight being 20-20, accessing Diag Network early on probably would have saved the owner significant $ and Ivan much frustration. Great video as usual.

[@arnemalmkvist8553]

Hi You are the man who doesn't give up You do an outstanding job, if there are two of you in the world, there are not more 👌 you are the icing on the cake regarding the engine model, it's a design fault but it's a Chrysler after all 😂🤣 from Sweden

[@Mustangg16]

I'm assuming you verified the other side that they are tight

[@richardnilsen8950]

Again = the one tool you don't have in your toolbox Intense visual inspection OBD1 approach great diag Video winner winner👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🎓🎓🎓🎓

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

"intense visual inspection"... Like x-ray vision? 😂

[@CrimeVid]

So is the original oil plug going to cause any grief in the future ?

[@Usmanthemecano]

Most likely in the oil pan... truck seems to run fine

[@fredmalito9869]

It probably fell right down into the oil pan, but damn they’re lucky it didn’t get caught in that chain and cause catastrophic engine failure!

[@captaindunsell8568]

It is probably down below and should not migrate up

[@andycarter5617]

Only a problem if he rolls the car in future

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It's in its happy place 😄👌

[@oldbiker9739]

Nice fix Ivan , that customer needs to get ahold of that engine manufacture and let them know what's what to stop this stupidity ,and get his money back including the wire harness.

[@Chris-L-sr]

So where's the bolt that fell out ,in the oil pan?

[@tapcon9]

At 7min 20 sec into part two you can see the open oil passage hole, however it is in shadow during the time it appears on camera. Had to review the video multiple times with my best pair of glasses to even see it. Keep the videos coming and I'll keep watching them !!!!!

[@davidraezer5937]

Great diagnostic work! I have been a member of DN for a while. Another helpful tool in your diagnostic toolbox.

[@joeandgod1]

Wow, l'm exhausted. I feel like I should get paid for watching all 3 parts.....That was high level diagnostics Ivan

[@Sean_Diagnostics]

Dont feel bad about throwing parts at it. With the data you had at the time i would have done the same. At first after the pico captures i was thinking towards the spring inside the intake reluctor vibrating and would end up changing the same part.....im Happy you got the correct fix for it even though its a simple fix, you still got it fixed

[@juancarlosmorales6775]

In Retrospect, the initial data pointed to the phaser; however, I think the honest mistake was not noticing the missing bolt/plug while he opened the cover the first time to change the cam. He is not opening these engines everyday. Difficult to notice something was missing. Great video anyways, as usual, and 3rd part the best

[@martinarmstrong3233]

One word, HONEST. You are a really good guy.

[@bills6093]

Seems like you should have found the original bolt in the pan, and also checked the other side?

[@mikefoehr235]

Eric will do it on I DO CARS eventually. That's his primary joy....the cash register

[@johnclamshellsp1969]

As a former GM mechanic, I would not waste my time in dropping the oil pan for that bolt. That bolt will cause no harm. The oil pickup tube has quite a stout screen to prevent these issues. The bolt falling out and making into the pan is a lucky thing. No engine damage, a winner. I find it sad that the engine has bolts for the oil passages, and not a simple brass plug. Very poor design.

[@bills6093]

@@johnclamshellsp1969 I meant to replace it, rather than make a new bolt. I would get it to put it back, and also to have a good look at the oil and the filter. He was wiping something off the cam reluctor wheel earlier with his finger, before he replaced the cam. Plus, that was a lot of rattling going on for months. 15 to 20 seconds on startup.

[@Funwithhighnotes]

Oil pressure! Yes! The only parameter I didn’t think of. But why would an otherwise normal running engine be so low on oil pressure that a cam phaser, on one side only, doesn’t work properly!? Oh, yes, the oil gallery bolts must have fallen out and miraculously caused no damage on their way down to the pan. Duh! 🤦🏼‍♂️🤯 Thanks for sharing this awesome vid! So glad you and all of us found closure!

[@vg3430]

Really enjoyed this series….great job!

[@slowdown6436]

Fantastic job. I am not a trained tech, but do my best on my own vehicles. Last confusing issue I dealt with was non functioning turn signal and dead remote start after hitting a really bad set of railroad tracks at speed. 2016 Hyundai Accent. Turned out to be an improperly seated transportation fuse. Dumb luck I found it. You guys have to be geniuses nowadays. My hats off to all you techs.

[@joekuntzman4016]

Great case study man. Awesome thought out testing and diagnosis. Always impressed with your videos! I wonder how many heads, cams etc. have been destroyed by those self loosening plugs?

[@brycestewart3181]

Looks like JEEP needs a RE-CALL !!!! Thx for sharing We need more Techs like you "Badly"

[@slidebed]

Did you not check the same bolts on the other head Ivan if the bolts on this head were loose.

[@ricdenali4213]

I like the way you stayed with it. Not many shops would’ve done that.

[@thomasschaefer9312]

Was the bolt missing since new, or did it fall out and is inside the engine?

[@Graham_Wideman]

It's presumably down in the oil pan stuck to the magnet.

[@adamtrombino106]

I was reading in the Jeep forums just for giggles. There's supposed to be a TSB on this issue, dating back to 2013, but I couldn't find the number without subscribing?! I even googled it, but couldn't find it. Maybe my wording was wrong.. In any case, they were saying this is a well known problem on any 3.6 because they didn't use thread sealer or lock tight on the bolts, and heat cycles cause them to loosen and eventually fall out. Unless you're working on these alot, you've never guess that. But thx to your vid, lots of us know about it now!! As far as what to charge, Yeah, I'd eat the parts too, and charge for the time. 2 other places couldn't fix it, but you did!

[@jessicav2031]

Wow, what a ridiculous design/assembly, did they want to save $0.01 in thread locker? I'm really surprised you didn't take the other side off to thread lock those as well, who knows when they will fall out.

[@catnip4885]

That's been left for the future so that Ivan can charge again when that goes wrong 😀

[@major__kong]

Thread locker is better than nothing. But on something that's supposed to be permanent I would have designed a plug that could be staked in. Another approach is to find a way to safety wire it in. On an aircraft engine, it would have been. But no one does that on cars anymore except the race stuff. I think the FAA did some testing with thread locker, and they determined it wasn't as reliable as good old safety wire. Aircraft rattle a LOT.

[@canuckchris5733]

I own a 3.6. I saved this episode for the future. Thanks Ivan 😎

[@akdenyer]

Brilliant of course. If you could have run that with the cover off you would have seen it immediately. Unbelievable crap design by GM. That was a machining plug to drill the hole. We would have used an interference fit plug and staked it or an NPT or BSP flush fit plug with loctite. College boy design with no experience! Usually that kind of failure would be engine detonation. We also put restrictors in some feeds to stop over oiling. On our engines it was the timing chain eccentric tensioner and the rocker shaft feeds.. They always had restrictors so that wear did not reduce oil pressure. Old school stuff been done for years.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Can you imagine the mess that would make if I started it without the valve cover? 😳

[@akdenyer]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics. Oh yes but you would have shut off quick and have your answer. It probably has a restrictor or the engine would have long since blown up. Not the first time covered in oil LOL

[@chrischris7462]

The golden rule ...always look for simple things!....that one bolt you put in had to be made of solid gold.......Great job !

[@gomd3rd]

Charge an hour to take the pan off and get that bolt out.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It only takes an hour?

[@chekelley6861]

No. It doesn’t take an hour. Ask me how I know.

[@Barbars-14]

Grrrrrrr…ahhhh..lovin’ the mental struggles Ivan…it’s such blast when you nail it👍👍🤣

[@danieljurgill1681]

2 rules normally used were not. Rule 1. You have to understand HOW the system works, in ALL areas. This is a mechanical, hydraulic, and electrical system combination. A simple sketch of operation was needed. RULE 2. Visual inspection.The visual inspection ENDED when you took the valve cover off the first time. If rule one was not broken, rule 2 would have found the root cause during the under valve cover inspection.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ok, go ahead and read service info and draw me a sketch of ALL the oil feed passages. I'll wait 😂😜

[@chekelley6861]

Armchair quarterback

[@cgrs13]

I have to agree with Ivan here, he fixes and diagnoses the most difficult problems and on all makes and models it’s difficult to have or find all the info on every vehicle. He also shares setbacks that happen to him personally or can happen to anyone in this field. Maybe you can start your own KZbin channel and put yourself out there with your 2 rules of diagnostic and only share your perfect diag on every vehicle 😂. Everyone miss diagnosis a vehicle at some point in your career it’s inevitable.

[@danieljurgill1681]

That is not a fair comment. You know that level of detail is what you needed. You only needed to realize that oil pressure is an input . That is it. The second clue was it took time for the fault to set. What changes when an engine heats up...oil viscosity. The 3rd clue was the noise, and any simple internet search will show oil pressure is a major factor. 4th A few people in the comments on other video, i think #2, said that the end plugs have to be checked. It was nice that you recognized that throwing a cam in was premature. You also have to realize the problem solving approach was incomplete. DEFINE, MEASURE, ANALYZE, IMPROVE, CONTROL. A quick call to your friend at South Main Auto would have helped. I have not ever seen him jump to a conclusion. The GOOD part is , you saved the customer from getting a new engine !! Remember , that was why the Jeep was brought to you !

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@danieljurgill1681 yes I know Eric O is perfect in every way... I'm just a novice who jumps to conclusions and fires the parts cannon 😜

[@stevelang3171]

that was a complicted one! -and all this time i thought that it was just too many rubber duckies blocking the defroster vents!

[@andyg5004]

All jeeps are possessed Ivan. Tell him to sell the jeep and go get himself a Toyota