Credor : Is SEIKO Killing Their MOST Prestigious Watch Brand ??? My CRITICAL Opinion & Review

This is an open letter to the Credor company. I love the Credor brand… The problem: the Credor brand just doesn’t know what to do with itself these days. Initially, the Credor brand was “the crest of the mountain“ and was the best that Seiko could offer. Today, Credor just seems like a regular watch brand - It’s not a bad watch right now… But it’s not the peak of the mountain. In this video, I discuss some of the history of the Credor brand, some of the brand ideology, and my hopes for the future of this illustrious Seiko brand. 
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[@Hiura73]

One way to think of Credor (and you'd have to live in Japan to get this) is that it is, as a company the Toyota Century. Sure, Lexus is considered the more luxurious brand. However, there is nothing....nothing made in Japan that is automotively above the Toyota Century. For those who know....know. The Century is simple sophistication and the type of man who rides in the back of a Toyota Century is very different than the guy in the back of a Rolls Royce. Foreigners will likely not understand this.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I definitely use the Toyota versus Lexus comparison. 😁

[@kojiattwood]

Arigatou for the very informative video! Was fortunate enough to pick up a GCBE993 Raden dial a while back for a very reasonable price and have adored it constantly ever since.

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s a beautiful piece. Congrats 🎉 An advantage of the ambiguity of the brand is the prices are pretty reasonable.

[@Callmecarbo]

I love my Credor’s. They make me feel special every time I wear them

[@PocketWatchTime]

Exactly 🙌🏼 I love being an undercover watch lover.

[@thetruthhurts7500]

Looks and sounds like one of those cheap brands you see on Ali Express

[@aDocandhisWatch]

Great video!! Yes, looks like Credor’s best years are in the past which is a shame.. Complications is the way to go forward 👍🏻

[@PocketWatchTime]

I’d love a Credor jump hour 😍

[@aDocandhisWatch]

@@PocketWatchTime yes!! That would be amazing 🙌🏻

[@chia-mingyang5804]

From my understanding, Credor is created for watches more focus on Japanese philosophies and aesthetics. They aren't meant to be premium only. Indeed their Masterpiece line is competing not just the best mainstream brands but even the top-tier independent barnds, however they also make simple daily watches for general Japanese populations. That doesn't affect my love to them at all. A great chef should be able to make not only beautiful and complicated cuisine but also simple home dishes, right? BTW, Eichi II has a porcelain dial, not enamel.

[@PocketWatchTime]

So true… I knew it was a porcelain dial. Whoops. 😅 I love your analogy about a chef and his cuisine… I agree Credor can and should make some simpler choices… I just wish they made a few more excellent or stand out choices.

[@HRM.H]

Ive hoped Credor (and King Seiko for that matter) would get a proper rebranding for a while. They can make such incredible stuff, but their marketing and availability/service-ablity is a issue. I hope Credor gets the same treatment as GS someday and gets some updated/modernized movements for the rest of the line up.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Exactly 🙌🏼

[@kiryukazuma7508]

It's by design. Seiko does not want to market Credor nor will they for practical reasons. You need to understand these watches are somewhat handmade and finished in limited numbers which makes them slow to roll off the production line, an increase in demand is not going to help them here. Secondly they wish only to sell JDM customers, most wealthy Japanese want that minimalist understated stealth wealth look and believe that simplicity is a beautiful artform. If you understand most Japanese companies they are notorious for gatekeeping, look at cars for example, they will sell boring safe cars to the international market but every desirable limited edition models are for JDM only. As funny as it sounds I don't think Credor cares about trying to position itself to make more money. I don't think they even lack sales. Lastly I believe Credor wishes to only make dress watches if we were to look at their range from 1970s to now. No need for funky complications which are totally redundant in todays day and age. Dress watches need to be simple, slim and small which adding lots of complications will defeat this very purpose. Keeping it simple will also mean servicing actually is far more accessible than you think it is. If we were to look at haute horology quiet brands such as phillipe dufour, laurent ferrier etc they all follow this philosophy.

[@PocketWatchTime]

@kiryukazuma7508 great points 🙌🏼

[@aadilahmed2614]

I'm from India and I work for Grand seiko and credor and I do agree with your opinions on this topic 👍

[@PocketWatchTime]

Excellent. I do think the GCLX997 is heading in the right direction.

[@tcjohn38]

Patrick, have you ever been to Tokyo? There’s a Seiko museum where you can learn about the history of the company. The museum offers free admission, just need to buy your plane ticket. Or you can take a virtual tour on the website.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I was supposed to go there for my honeymoon… the virus that shall not be named canceled that. I didn’t know about the virtual tour though… I’ll check that out. I hope to make it there one day.

[@miken2076]

Just saw this. I have been collecting Credors (and GS and Spring Drive) for over 10 years. I actually just recently acquired a GCLL997, so I was excited to see you have the same one (except you have the bracelet which I envy you for). I have always viewed Credor as a dress watch line that does not have to adhere to the GS design principles. So, for example, the lack of minute indexes is acceptable for Credor watches, but there are always minute marks on GS watches (or all that I've seen). I've always thought of the as more or less parallel lines as far as prices are concerned, just different design philosophies. One point, GS was late to the Spring Drive. The original Spring Drives were Seikos (a stainless steel sports watch with integrated bracelet SBWA001, and a solid gold Seiko SBWA002) and the Credor GBLG999. I don't believe GS marketed a Spring Drive until 2004. My first Spring Drive was the SNR001, that I bought around 2008/2009. The movement in the GCLL997 was shared among a number of Seikos. I own the Seiko Ananta (SNR023) in addition to the Credor. There was also a Seiko Spring Drive moonphase (SNR017). All share the movement 5R77, although the movement finishing is different on the Seikos. One last note. According to a friend of mine, you can have your watch refinished at Seiko Japan. He said it is a couple thousand. I think they can even do laser welding. This is separate from the light polish they give watches that are returned for service. If you're interested, I have much of my collection on Instagram as watchman_dc.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Congratulations on the pickup. 🎉 Check out some of my other videos… I have the GCLL999 too, the SBWA001, and the GBLG999. If you really want the bracelet… You can order it. It took almost 9 months to get - my GCLL999 came on the wrong bracelet and I wanted the original (even though I’ve been too lazy to actually put it on). Glad to hear from another true Seiko/Spring Drive fan. I’ll definitely follow your Instagram.

[@Al7anon266MV]

I have question I saw there is pieces has double sign dial Seiko & Credor is that considerd as rare piece ? like with Patek Philipee & Tiffany and co ?

[@PocketWatchTime]

Sadly, no. In the older days of Credor… Seiko didn’t really know what to do with the brand and sometimes marked it Seiko plus Credor… And sometimes just Credor.

[@HRM.H]

Im very much onboard with your comment that Credor should be Seiko's innovation line. I would KILL for a microrotor or perpetual calender springdrive.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I hadn’t thought about a microrotor… That would be a great addition!

[@nailfarmer22]

Great analysis. One question: Why should Seiko make Credor the inovation brand in stead of Grand Seiko?

[@PocketWatchTime]

Innovation could definitely happen with either brand. I think Credor works a little better just because it’s less known. Similar to Tudor being the innovation center for the Rolex brand.

[@HRM.H]

You should check out a Credor/Seiko with the calibre 68 someday. Its their slimmest movement ever. I own a Seiko U.T.D. with the 3rd generation calibre 6810 movement. Its case is only 4.4mm thick!! I personally advice buying straight from Japan instead off chrono24. The pieces on Chrono24 are almost always reposted and marked up significantly.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I’ve seen the UTD marking before but never knew what it stood for. 4.4mm is incredibly thin! I’ll check it out.

[@HRM.H]

​@@PocketWatchTimeU.T.D. means Ultra Thin Dress. It was their line intended to compete with ultra thin pieces from Piaget and JLC

[@MrJamesDuffy]

I have a Seiko SCVL001 which was part of their 1990s revival of the 6810 movement. The 6800 movement family is still in Seiko's active parts catalog and has since moved to Credor, even undergoing several upgrades. Unfortunately under Credor, independent watchmakers/repair shops cannot order service parts directly from Seiko so if it needs new parts, it will have to be serviced by Seiko in Japan or one would have to find rare donor parts.

[@HRM.H]

​​​​​​@@MrJamesDuffya true competent watchmaker can make all the parts required to maintain a 6810. It doesnt use any fancy Spron hairspring/mainsprings or any other proprietary alloys. So unless something like the diashock or the dogleg palletfork broke, a competent watchmaker should be able to service it locally. My local guy has recently overhauled my 6810, no issues.

[@MrJamesDuffy]

@@HRM.H I have had a local watchmaker service a 6810 and it was not a problem. However, I had another 6810 that had a broken tooth in the crown pinion and he could not order parts from Seiko because the movement moved under Credor. I would much rather have a Seiko service part than to have someone manufacture it, especially with the right tolerances of Seiko’s last ultra-thin movement in its active catalog.

[@OPMDK]

As inCredor is being positioned where Jd is going to follow the current trend of wealth build up in the millionaire world while GS is handling the “luxury” mass-market. You want lost brand look at Campanola, talk about lost. Seiko’s loss at a macro business level is that they live atop one of their coveted mountains and never come down.

[@PocketWatchTime]

So right - Campanola was amazing and now gone and forgotten.

[@RidaHallal]

have you seen the GCLX999? lovely new addition to the lineup :)

[@PocketWatchTime]

I agree. Great addition and a good price point.

[@borassictime918]

I must confess I know very little about Credor models. The Credor motif looks arabic to me. Those moon phases do look rather thick. 16mm? Perhaps that’s why they didn’t sell? The GBLG999 looks very, very nice - shame they felt the need to add Seiko to the dial though. Have to agree Seiko is not making enough of Credor. It feels almost forgotten. Maybe they should do a colab with Swatch 😉? But seriously, I agree Seiko should use it as the halo brand to showcase its finest tech and actually promote it. Thanks for sharing Patrick 👍

[@PocketWatchTime]

Thank you. 🙌🏻 I also wish that model didn’t have the dual branding… But that’s what’s confusing about the brand. Fingers crossed Seiko gives Credor a little bit more love and maybe some tech. I’ll quit the brand if they do a Swatch colab. 😂

[@borassictime918]

@@PocketWatchTime I think I’d give the hobby up if Credor, or heaven forbid GS, actually did a colab with Swatch 🥴😂

[@juniorjohnson5961]

Great collection of Credor 👍 Didn't get up till 8:30 😪

[@PocketWatchTime]

I was driving into work at 8:00 😁… I was live for the premiere. The late bird misses the worm (just made up that bad analogy 😂)

[@juniorjohnson5961]

@@PocketWatchTime It must be hard being a Lumberjack 🪓

[@PocketWatchTime]

@@juniorjohnson5961 I need more plaid in my life

[@juniorjohnson5961]

@@PocketWatchTime Start with the pants 👖

[@relojeroschat]

I like what they produce, they are for sure funkier than GS but I find most of GS boring on style. My question for you since you have experience with them.... how much discount do you think you can get on a watch from the current line-up. There are some listed online and in C24 the sellers give you the opportunity to suggest a price. How much below MRSP should I consider offering? I'm looking at their sporty (baby?) Eichis collection, the Kuons. Porcelain dial, nice looking case and bracelet, slim. Thank you!

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s a great looking watch. I just recently saw those posted on C24 a couple months ago. Sadly, I don’t think you’ll get much of a discount. If they’re sold in Japan… A lot of Japanese sellers have that “suggest a price“ but it’s actually rude to their culture to discount. It doesn’t hurt to try… But I don’t think you’ll get it. 😁 (try 5-10%)

[@relojeroschat]

@@PocketWatchTime I wasn't aware of the cultural rules of business. Still undecided but will try in the ballpark you recommended. Thanks! Btw, the patent for the Locomotive was filed again by Seiko on last Dec... so will see... Thanks again

[@PocketWatchTime]

@relojeroschat I didn’t know that. Do you think Seiko is going to make a new locomotive… Maybe for the hundredth anniversary? 🤩

[@relojeroschat]

@@PocketWatchTime They are unpredictable but I like the fact that they are interested again in the model. Maybe the Kuon family with its integrated bracelet is their way to test the waters among collectors.

[@jchong416]

Credor makes a lot of shitters but some absolutely sublime pieces as well

[@PocketWatchTime]

There’s definitely a very wide range. Thanks for watching. 🙌🏼

[@aadilahmed2614]

I do agree with you sir, I work for exclusive grand seikoboutique

[@PocketWatchTime]

I wish it wasn’t so. I love the brand.

[@drfathertime]

I really like Credor where they are at now, making watches that are "if you know, you know" kind of a deal. Also, I think Credor of the past, and current Credor are totally different, like, current lineup has gone to places where GS can't go, they are more of an artisan group doing whatever they wish to do instead of by the numbers approach of GS.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I definitely like the “if you know, you know” factor of Credor 😁

[@drfathertime]

@@PocketWatchTime Yeah instead of doing Lexus version of Toyota corolla as they used to do. I mean I'm sure you have seen Eichi II, that thing is.... exquisite. Credor doesn't need hype of PP or AP or Rolex, they are that hipster brand that 99% WIS have never heard of, or seen, and that's exactly where I want them to be.

[@PocketWatchTime]

@@drfathertime Eichi is beautiful. I saw a video of the artisan hand painting the dial… It took my breath away.

[@drfathertime]

@@PocketWatchTime same here man, that watch is basically my exit watch. The trouble is, both of versions are absolutely stunning! The funny thing is, official pics are doing dog crap work at showing how gorgeous they are, the dark blue version is as stunning as the white one. Choices choices! XDDDD

[@PocketWatchTime]

@drfathertime the blue is stunning. But, I think the white dial does it for me just because it looks like classic enamel and I think it makes the blue paint pop just a little more. Tough choice indeed.

[@neel3297]

Seiko is unaware of their direction

[@PocketWatchTime]

I agree. I will give Seiko credit though… They don’t keep churning over the same Royal Oak over and over again like AP.

[@wertj3977]

The new GCLX999 and Gold Feathers are showing that Credor is going places. The GCLX999, to me, is a more interesting watch than any of Grand Seiko's SBGY lineup due to it's integrated bracelet, extremely elegant case design and finishing, porcelain dial, and unique refinishing of the 9r31 caliber. It makes me wonder why Grand Seiko can't incorporate more elaborate refinishing of the 9r31, especially for their absurdly priced precious metal models. I hope the GCLX999 gets a leather strap attachment and who knows, maybe Credor will use more casual strap materials as they market as an everyday watch.

[@PocketWatchTime]

You’re so right… That new GCLX999 is wonderful. What an upgrade from the recent Credor releases and definitely the recent Grand Seiko releases. I hope they make a version with a blue dial - I might buy that one. You’re absolutely right about another point too… Why is Grand Seiko charging so much for a similar or actually less fancy design and finishing.

[@wertj3977]

@@PocketWatchTime I think it's because Grand Seiko is slowly becoming a brand name, which Credor aside, still offers immense value. The GCLX has far more intricate case design and finishing, however I also wouldn't say the 7r31 is better finished than a 9r31, it's simply different (It's not just the wave pattern, notice how the countersinks of the screws and jewels are no longer circular!). But the fact that the manufacturer has these capabilities and refuses to do anything interesting in Grand Seiko is what infuriates me! At least try engraving that mainspring barrel!

[@PocketWatchTime]

@wertj3977 That infuriates me too. The mainspring barrel is so boring. 🥱 😠

[@markwolfson2023]

The only one it seems buying these dress watches are Seiko executives. A rebranding of both Credor and King Seiko would help, in a very competitive, flooded market.

[@PocketWatchTime]

Agreed 🙌🏻

[@kiryukazuma7508]

Plenty of rich old money types in Asia that buy Credor. Mostly Japanese, Taiwanese and Hong Kong clients.

[@taoprsn]

only have a credor 5a74-5000

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s a great classic Credor dress watch. Congrats.

[@L.A.C_Santos]

Mmmm.. I like many credors. They do have spring drives, automatics, perpetual, skeletons, quartz, and they have some amazing designs. They do have awesome complications. Of course some of the models are kind of old looking and corny, but some are fabulous and modern, but always very refined. I think you are being a little unfair.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I know I’m being a little harsh. Credor has such potential. I just don’t think they’re using it to its full potential. I’m a huge fan of spring drive. Skeletonized isn’t so fancy in my book. And are you sure they make a perpetual calendar?… I’ve never seen a Credor perpetual.

[@thomasa.243]

The Seiko (Epson) Company is as confusing as it can be. You never really know which brand belongs to which division and who is actually in charge. And this also is true for Credor. I actually have the feeling they are confused themselves 🤣. And they are also confused with their regional subdivisions. I actually have a very minor problem with a Grand Seiko watch (Lume is missing on one index) and nobody is able to help me. "This watch was not to be sold in your region." Yeah, but I bought it. "We can't get the replacement parts here. Send it to Japan." 🥴

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s a crazy story! For one… I’m shocked that Grand Seiko missed that as a QC issue. But second… I can’t believe they couldn’t send you a simple replacement part without having to ship it across the world.

[@thomasa.243]

@@PocketWatchTime I mean, it happens that sometimes something slips through. But then getting told that the only real solution is to send it to Japan myself is... Well... First of all, shipment will be prohibitively expensive. And also, I have to pay import taxes when it comes back. Adding all costs, it may be cheaper just buying the same watch again since it was one of the "entry level" Grand Seikos :/

[@olivier-pierredebelmont.3630]

Send it to Japan.

[@thomasa.243]

@@olivier-pierredebelmont.3630 Well, yes, I could. But, I have the risk if something gets lost during transit. And additionally, I have to pay import taxes (20% on total value) when this watch comes back to me. In the end, this would be more expensive than buying it again 🫠

[@olivier-pierredebelmont.3630]

@@thomasa.243 Ah ,yes,sorry,I forget the import duty.... I can not understand why Seiko shops are not servicing you as a good client. If you have time,you can write a letter or send a mail at the top Seiko and affiliates management,just to see if they follow suite. If not,they don't deserve our clientele. Have a nice week Thomas.😆

[@thetruthhurts7500]

Looks and sounds like one of those cheap brands you see on Ali Express

[@PocketWatchTime]

That’s the problem - some pieces are true high horology and others look cheap. Tough sell for a brand.

[@MrJamesDuffy]

I completely agree. Credor has not been positioned or repositioned well by Seiko, especially with the rise of Grand Seiko. I have a steel GCAY989 (4S79-00B0) and a pink gold GBBE980 (6898-00D0), the latter of which I wear into Swiss watch ADs just to test the potential snobbery of the sales reps.

[@PocketWatchTime]

I love your snobbery test 🤣😂 - I’ve been eyeing a 4S79. 😁

[@Aztec1050]

Credor on average is at the same level as Longines, there are a lot of credor watches you can buy second hand for less than 500 dollars, I got my credor quartz watch for 150 dollars

[@PocketWatchTime]

Longines? I need more opinions on this comparison. In my mind Credor is leaps and bounds above Longines.

[@Aztec1050]

@@PocketWatchTime in what way? You can get a preowned quartz Credor for £190. Credor movement also comes with regulated hairspring whereas Tissot/Longines have switched to free sprung balance, only Grand Seiko’s 9SA5 uses free sprung balance…

[@Aztec1050]

@@PocketWatchTime Credor makes some very well finished jewellery watches but it’s utterly destroyed as a luxury brand by its cheap vintage quartz watches. There are uninformed people who rank Credor at Rolex even Patek level which is laughable and shows how little they know about the truth