Cro-Mags and the birth of N.Y.H.C.

[@ceevishus4130]

Hardcore today will never understand and embrace that early punk music that gave way for hardcore. hardcore is based on punk, not metal...

[@bridgestreetdesign]

Do people really think hardcore came from metal?

[@cantkillcliffrose]

What are you talking about? There's plenty of fast and good hardcore that is way more punk than metal. Alot of early punk is corny ass shit. No one needs to listen to the sex pistols in 2024.

[@TrueMithrandir]

lol no shit but both genres have had plenty of crossover since the beginning, neither would have gotten as far as they had without each others influences, its all just LOUD ROCK music at the end of the day ...

[@bridgestreetdesign]

@@cantkillcliffrose well to be honest, nobody needed to listen to the Sex Pistols in 1977 either.

[@bridgestreetdesign]

@@TrueMithrandir at the time there was SERIOUS friction between the fans of the two genres, though the bands themselves seemed to be ok with each other.

[@Jimmy-oq9zq]

First NYHC album I ever bought was Age of Quarrel

[@XpappaedgeX]

LOVE JJ. Big fan of Cro Mags AND Blodclot. John has ALWAYS been good to me. Could honestly care less about this fued anymore. I think both men are doing their thing now and living their vision of PMA. All that counts.

[@lovelife1867]

problem with JJ is he convinces himself into something and sees it as truth and cannot accept the reality. He might have some mental disorder.

[@ThaClipKeepah]

I mean both of them have been hit in the head at least 1000 times each so there's definitely some brain things going with these 2 😅

[@buggzda]

If only they all could get along and do a tour that everyone wants to see and it gives them a chance to make some decent money in their older years

[@T_Grail]

This is well researched, though I will say that although it's seen in retrospect as a quintessential NYHC album, at the time, in '86, we (scene kids) very much viewed The Age of Quarrel as an overtly 'metal' record. This probably seems absurd now, given that metal stylings are pervasive in the contemporary scene, but when you look at what was popular in hardcore at this time, both production and style-wise, to have this very tight, polished sound with compression and slapback on the drums, protracted guitar solos, chugging, etc., was a little alienating for purists of the day. All said, it's a classic and still holds up.

[@bridgestreetdesign]

Yes it does sound absurd now, but I agree that back in the day the infiltrations of metal into hardcore were a big deal. Not just sonically but once that happens then you’ve got major labels and inappropriately glitzy production and tour busses and jocks showing up at hardcore shows wanting to fight the skinheads (who were as game for a fight as the jocks were, maybe more so.) In hindsight people should have been pleased that metalheads were using hardcore to make their own music better.

[@brooklynboiprod]

Crossover was starting at that time

[@michaelfivas9256]

I worked with Pete Hines in Salt Lake at a restaurant . When I went for a job interview the restaurant owner say my Crass shirt and asked me if I liked punk and hardcore and I said yes . Then he told me his sous chef had been the drummer for a band called The Cro-Mags and had I ever heard of them well yeah !! Lmmfao .

[@botany500kojak]

When was this?

[@michaelfivas9256]

@ god quite a few years ago we worked at a restaurant called The Wild Grape 🍇 Bistro. He used to tell me all kinds of stories . He was a really funny person .

[@michaelpainter4596]

I worked with Pete at a restaurant in Seattle. Funny guy. He was clean but had a porn addiction! Knew a lot about music.

[@michaelfivas9256]

@ hilarious 😂 !!

[@a.romano6532]

Next time you speak to Pete Hines, ask Pete to tell you the story about the peanut butter! what he did to Paris‘s peanut butter!😂 it’s a famous story. He hated Parris so much that he did something to his peanut butter. You can use your imagination on what he did. God Bless Pete for that!

[@attackwithforce]

At 2:50 you can see the band name "The Brats" on the front of the bass drum. This photo was probably taken at a show in Denmark with Harley's band opening for the Brats. Who went on to become heavy metal legends Mercyful Fate!

[@roaringlion1977]

I believe KRAUT had the first punk / independent artist music video on MTV. The song ALL TWISTED (1982?)

[@soundofhistory_]

I hadn’t heard that, but it sounds very Kraut so I believe it

[@SydBarrettArchives]

They sure did, I have somewhere a VHS with them recorded from MTV.

[@gardensaladdude90]

Love the Minutemen shirt

[@soundofhistory_]

Thanks!

[@JK-so9ke]

We jam econo

[@IanMcSlater]

Harley seems like an honest and humble guy whos got all his emotions in check...

[@skriptico]

hahahahah 🎉

[@HubCityMan]

Yeah, claiming he's the "golden avatar" and showing up at gigs to stab his x band mates 😂 Also stalking the streets of NYC back in the day beating up gay dudes until a local journal put a picture of him on the cover warning men in the gay community to watch out for him. Real class act

[@SamThredder]

Raybeez @ 21:50

[@parasiticoak]

there isn't enough people covering this topic . keep going dude

[@soundofhistory_]

Thanks!

[@lewisb85]

I sort of agree with what Harley said "everyone in this band got screwed", I know after the fight its never going to happen BUT if the cro mags were to go united front collecting who own owes them money maybe it would end the tension. I met Harley at a show nice guy was talking to him about BJJ as recently got my purple belt. But I like how he's looking at it holistically now.

[@francismorganstern6455]

I got my front teeth knocked out at a GBH \Murphy law show back in the 80s good times

[@jasonthompson8904]

Harley won the court case for the name and is still releasing albums as the Cro-mags

[@ThaClipKeepah]

He's such an angry lil guy lol

[@jasonthompson8904]

@@ThaClipKeepahI get it. He grew up fast in hard situations, lots of violence. He was always mean mugging, even as a kid in old pictures. I heard him talking about some guy starting trouble on a metro, and Harley had to ask himself “where do I to be in ten minutes?” in order to not bash the guy. Can you imagine having a future time orientation of only ten minutes for your life decisions during potential conflict and jail? I personally get tired of old school bands with dudes in their 50’s glorifying violence and a decaying city from then. Comes a time to grow up. Except Harley. He’s always been this way.

[@ThaClipKeepah]

@jasonthompson8904 I grew up in nyc in just as violent of a setting. Instead of having to prove myself in constant contests, I developed a no nonsense attitude that showed thru. U could look at me n tell that I didn't take no shit. At the end of the day, I've got nothing to prove n neither does he. Sadly, Harley won't learn that

[@jasonthompson8904]

@ fair enough. Not saying he is a giant of self reflection. He smoked a lot of dust in his time I’m sure.

[@ThaClipKeepah]

@@jasonthompson8904 bingo I don't do dust lol

[@randybiro9295]

I lived in mtl and we had a cinnection thingy with nyc where we sent bands there and they sent bands to us. It was great. My intro to world peace by the cro mags

[@bridgestreetdesign]

One more thing: White D*V*L was before the revenge album. Parris and Harley started WD, and while on tour in I think Europe they realized that all the promoters were using the term CroMags, so they decided to call that band CroMags as well. Then the revenge album came out.

[@SamThredder]

you can type the word devil, its fine. see, just typed it. white devil was a fucking awesome band! reincarnation is such a good EP. shame they never put out a full length

[@bridgestreetdesign]

@@SamThredder actually I previously got busted by the facebook police for writing those two words together. I got off with a warning.

[@SamThredder]

@@bridgestreetdesign i have nothing yet. usually they flag it straight away

[@bridgestreetdesign]

@ I suspect that KZbin’s “community standards” are rather arbitrary.

[@monsterguyx]

I saw them at the Electric Banana in Pittsburgh 1986, great fuckin show! Someone posted a recording of it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qanUimutg7ulmc0si=lURGkGsIO1Fw6O_H

[@PinkyJujubean]

For a second I thought your Electric Banana remark was a reference to Spinal Tap 😂

[@PapaMetal47]

Stoked for this. I've always wanted to know this band's story. Harmony Korine should direct the movie.

[@bridgestreetdesign]

I don’t mean to be critical but your video should really include the original version of Age of Quarrel that the band recorded and released themselves on cassette. Many (including me) feel it’s MUCH better than the profile records version and was a key element in expanding the band and the nyhc scene outside of the east village/lower east side while maintaining the DIY spirit of the punk/hardcore scene.

[@carybrief5874]

I agree 1000% wishci still had ny copy but i do have a release ofnit on cd harley put out. That cassette was so much better than the lp. Too overproduced. Cassette I listened to thousands of times on repeat. I still know every beat every word

[@brooklynboiprod]

Sounds much better. Less metal

[@SydBarrettArchives]

Yeah it definitely is, still have mine.

[@rochesterjohnny7555]

cool very informative, I remember hearing about them when I was a teenager but it wasn't my scene, I heard of John Joseph the first time from Brian Rose and they did the film Ironmind together which I really enjoyed and recommend

[@SydBarrettArchives]

MInor Threat and Dischord were a HUGE influence on NYHC, Bad Brains too, I was there during that whole period, and between them and The Misfits, and then Kraut, that was the bigger scene at the time.

[@buggzda]

They say Parris wrote all the songs don’t tell Harley I said that

[@a.romano6532]

You are mistaken!! Harley wrote every word on those Cro-Mags album. Harley wrote 90of the music. Parris aka Fabio aka Kevin didn’t do anything!! Parris was and will always be a weak mediocre guitar player with a girls name who ended up having Harley arrested! Parris wonders why his band will never get back together?? Parris is a RAT! He had Harley put in jail but he blames others for the breakup of Cro-Mags😂 Without John Joeseph there was no Cro-Mags. Paris also called up the Navy and ratted John Joseph out for going AWOL. Parris= RAT

[@grindpivot5165]

Dig the Channel. Salute

[@mghc7]

Nunzio from antidote wrote some of the riffs for the cromags

[@djkillergarcia]

This vid should have been at least an hour long. damn good!

[@caryncbreeef1969]

I was at most of their early shows in NYC. some sob stole my demo tape and first shirt they made. they killed it back then

[@aetonshirdlu]

Vinny Stigma has become a carbon copy of Bowzer from Sha Na Na. Harley is the same guy he always was.

[@caryncbreeef1969]

oh my gosh that is the funniest NYHC comment ever

[@FelonDeGeneres]

This is one of the messiest and dramatic chapters in the history of NYHC. Sadly, only three good albums came of it, with a whole lot more old man bickering, hair piece jokes, & some TV14 violence. 💪😤👌

[@ningboy3274]

This really comes down to what side of the Cro-Mags you believe, John's side of the story seems to be a little more coherent. Then you got Harley's version of events, this is the same guy who was kicked out of his own band for biting and stabbing the other members during a possible psychotic episode, not to mention other violent outbursts, and crazy shenanigans. Good chance neither side is telling you what actually happened, all I know is that Before the Quarrel is better than The Age of Quarrel, and John was by far the best singer for the Cro-Mags...

[@soundofhistory_]

Yeah the full truth is definitely somewhere in the middle

[@alberto9594]

All the members of the CroMags are full of shit crack heads.

[@caryncbreeef1969]

you can listen to (I have a copy) of harley who recorded all the songs minus world peace way before John was part of it - he played all of it, drums, bass, etc. I think he still sells it

[@bridgestreetdesign]

I feel like Parris’s version is the most plausible, mostly because he seems like the most reasonable person of the three.

[@liaho78]

@@caryncbreeef1969 except he didn't. Listen to Hardlore's interview with Parris, will change your tune about Harley.

[@Jmack7861]

Hardcores first nepo baby band

[@maluorno]

awesome. now do SNFU

[@Judo.chop44]

💯

[@edward2962]

👍

[@Pinebrookjohn75]

Harley was goging to cbgs since it opened in 74

[@soundofhistory_]

Yeah, I’m sure he was

[@Pinebrookjohn75]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWLQaamVoJmDiqMsi=hh38t2l36tI_eDLO Parris band. Sounds like a.o.q. cro mags

[@caryncbreeef1969]

a book is coming out about fanzines including mine. I can hook you up with the guy doing the book.

[@soundofhistory_]

That sounds like a super interesting book

[@carybrief5874]

I’ll send you his info tomorrow

[@caryncbreeef1969]

what about the cassette? it was recorded in Virginia at least a year before. That was way better versions than the LP.

[@bridgestreetdesign]

The age of quarrel cassette demo was actually recorded in nyc at some studio on park ave. But I agree, it totally blows the profile records version out of the water.

[@carybrief5874]

Then maybe the cassettes were run in VA. I think it was richmond. Bthats what it said on the cassette I bought it from Harlie the same day. I got one of those shirts from him. It was a pink button-down business shirt, long sleeve with a screen print on the back he was selling them on the pool table at cbs’s I think bthat was the first shirt. I played at the Cassette nonstop until it was stolen.

[@bridgestreetdesign]

@@carybrief5874yes, maybe the cassettes were manufactured in VA. The cassette insert says something like Cro Mag Non Records with a Tennessee address. That’s where Parris’s dad Aubrey was living at the time, I believe he helped them a bit in terms of getting the cassette recorded and manufactured. And yeah - I wore that cassette out, played it non stop for months. Way better than the album in my opinion.

[@HillBoston]

Parris Mayhew created the Cro-Mags music. Not Harley Flanagan. Harley took it all in a lawsuit against the others, after trying to stab and kill them at a show....yeah, real hero.

[@delanoarts3703]

I wanted to clear the skinhead thing up for those who dont understand it im not a skin never was one but i new a bunch from punk shows a skin is a working class pretty much punk rocker who hold no rasist ideals at all in fact some original skins were black there are different types who have different idoligy like vegan skins straight egde so on but a skin is not rasist in fact there mortel enemies are the nazi skins im sure most people know what they are skins and nazie skin heads deeply hate each other and have totally opposite idoligy skins are a world wide movement you find then in every big city but there is not a lot of them some cities have more then others in the 80s it was more popular but they have a super long history dating back to the 50s and ska music when they started it never had anything to do with racism ever the nazi in the 80s took there style and added rasist idoligy starting a huge divide in there scene just had to put this out there

[@TrueMithrandir]

great Minutemen shit btw! 🤘

[@Gregbaltzer]

Harley's book was really good. He said he was pissed off about the Revenge album cover because Rocky George got cropped out. Rocky and Harley are still tight.

[@HubCityMan]

Harley is trash. A true degenerate

[@HubCityMan]

1:28 freight trains?

[@demographicrenaissance6613]

WTF is going on with the hair?!

[@PUNKJUNKIE]

Kraut ! If im not mistaken Steve Jones ( sex pistols) did some work with them? Were all twisted ! Great band.Cro mags too.I loved the book from Harley .o my god how much drama! I dislike jhon jhosep and i think the band belongs to Harley of course

[@HarborAreaPunx13]

Nice shirt I'm from pedro

[@soundofhistory_]

Then don’t watch my minutemen video and hear how I kept mispronouncing it 😅

[@HarborAreaPunx13]

@soundofhistory_ u get a pass. This video popped up randomly. See watts band and hurleys band all the time at the sardine. They don't get along either.

[@soundofhistory_]

@@HarborAreaPunx13 Haha thanks. Oh really? That's a bummer

[@LifeB.C]

Harley half Dominican

[@kirkchristner6533]

No... Go back to Bad Brains. That's the birth of NYHC. CroMags tribute BB...no contest

[@soundofhistory_]

Someone didn’t watch the video

[@bluetortilla]

How bout some music?

[@soundofhistory_]

Then you wouldn’t see it because KZbins copyright system will block it.

[@NIJHR]

spiritual manipulation....

[@markot8927]

Aaah Irish lads😂

[@hellsidefamilia]

You spelled American wrong.

[@craigdobson9068]

​@hellsidefamilia correct. Many "Irish" are 4th, 5th, 6th generation with multiple nationalities thrown in the mix along the way. Americans celebrating St Patrick's day is embarrassing 😂

[@bridgestreetdesign]

I admit, we’re a cranky bunch who carry grudges to the grave.

[@bobross5079]

BLOODCLOT!

[@JMPWILLIAMS]

The thing is Harley isn’t white!! he’s Dominican!!

[@jackiec.barnes9567]

John sounds like a fibber