CROSS-plane vs FLAT-plane V8: Corvette C7 Z06 vs C8 Z06 vs GT350 Mustang - Engine balance DEEP DIVE

Today we'll be taking a deep dive into the engine balance of three different kinds of V8 engines:
1. The cross-plane V8 as found in the previous generation of the corvette c7 z06 and in pretty much all other corvettes of the past and almost every single american muscle car ever made.
2. The flat-plane v8 as found in the brand new c8 z06 corvette and in exotics like Ferrari or the Porsche 918 Spyder
And finally we're talking about an oddball flatplane v8 in the form of the Ford Voodoo engine that graces the engine bay of the Mustang Shelby GT350.
The first thing we need to do is obviously to explain what crossplane and flatplane V8 actually means. Now I'm sure most of you already know this so I'll be very quick about it.
In a cross-plane v8 the crankshaft pins where the conrods attach are arranged in two planes which are perpendicular two each other. Hence the name, cross-plane, two planes crossing each other. On a flat-plane the first and fourth pin have 180 degrees of separation between the second and third pins resulting in all the pins resting together in a single plane. This difference in the distribution of crankshaft pins changes the engine's behavior and character influencing almost all the other elements of the engine's design.
Now the easiest way to understand the V8 engine is to observe it as two inline four engines, because that's what it essentially is. two inline fours at 90 degrees to each other. Now the flat-plane V8 consists of two flat-plane inline fours and the cross-plane v8 consists of two cross-plane inline fours. In fact the v8 crankshafts look the same the inline four crankshafts, only stretched out so that they can accommodate two connecting rods on each pin.
Both the Corvette C8 Z06 and the Shelby GT350 alternate between banks for each firing. Their firing order is different and they number their cylinders differently but neither of these engines fire two cylinders on one bank in succession. This is good not just for engine balance but also for performance because it gives the exhaust pulses in one bank enough time to clear the exhaust manifold before another pulse arrives.
Now the crossplane inline four does not have an even firing interval. This unevenness also gets replicated on the cross-plane so the cross-plane does not alternate between the banks in the same way as a flat plane. In the cross-plane both banks experience times when they have two firings in quick succession. By having two cylinders on the same bank fire one after the other we're sending two exhaust pulses in very quick succession down the exhaust manifold. This of course means they can easily stack up which increases back-pressure, reduces performance and complicates the design of the exhaust system on cross-plane v8 engines.
So here we can see the flat-plane inline four and here we can see the cross-plane inline four their engine balance forces. The flat-plane has perfect primary and poor secondary balance while the cross-plane has perfect secondary and poor primary balance. But there's good news for the cross plane and that's that the 90 degree V engine configuration is unique in that it can use crankshaft counterweights to balance out pistons. So by adding mass to the crankshaft the crossplane v8 can restore perfect primary balance. The result is incredible smoothness but the price is high weight. The heavy crankshaft is the reason why cross plane v8 engines can never rev nearly as high as flat plane v8 ones. The LT4 engine inside the corvette C7 Z06 manages "only" 6500 rpm, while the C8 Z06 corvette reaches a stratospheric 8600 rpm. The unusual voodoo engine inside the Mustang Shelby GT3500 comes in a close second with 8200 rpm.
Speaking of the voodoo the weirdness comes from the fact that this engine uses an up down up down crankshaft configurattion instead of a typical flat plane v8 up down down up configuration. This means that the voodoo engine essentially sacrifices perfect primary balance in the interest of... nothing. The voodoo engine gains a primary rocking couple thanks to its peculiar configuration. But the reason behind it is the incredible soundtrack of the Mustang GT350. The voodoo engine is essentially a flat plane v8 that sounds like a cross plane v8 that lost its mind and went berserk. This was achieved by combining the weird crankshaft arrangement together with a crossplane type intake manifold and unorthodox exhaust headers.
A special thank you to my patrons:
Daniel
Peter Della Flora
Daniel Morgan
William
Richard Caldwell
Pepe
Brian Durning
Brian Alvarez
Dave Westwood
Joe C
Patreon: / d4a
#d4a #v8 #enginebalance
00:00 Two planes vs One
02:06 Firing orders
04:23 The sound
06:00 Primary and secondary balance
09:12 Crankshaft counterweights and redlines
12:17 How crossplanes make more Torque
14:11 Tolerating secondary imbalance
15:20 Do the voodoo that you do

[@d4a]

Support d4a: driving-4-answers-shop.fourthwall.com/ Alos, just a little heads up: this, the video before it and my future videos now have proper English subtitles, not the auto generated stuff.

[@negativeindustrial]

Hey brother, you doing alright? Staying above water? Need any help?

[@japdog9]

hi , im australian and i understand , good accent

[@VAspeed3]

Your English is quite good. I don't need subtitles.

[@whatdharma7237]

Your English is fine.

[@Kaputt512]

Your English is good, but English of some of your viewers may be not so good, so thanks for the subs!

[@enzomatos2307]

for me to go through 22 minutes of "complex" engineering without getting bored once is really impressive, this video is on another level of clarity and entertainment, congrats!

[@turboflush]

Its the pictures.

[@alainlegault2940]

@@turboflush hahahaha

[@turboflush]

@@alainlegault2940 legault... Hahaaa

[@stephenalexander2427]

Video is crystal ! 😎

[@librasd8087]

@@turboflush it would be great if my professors were equipped with slides made with the same care as the images in this video xD hahahaha

[@arpadmiklos7339]

Even as a Camaro and crossplane V8 fan, I find the Voodoo's sound very-very unique and appealing, it's indeed as if a crossplane V8 went berserk, but in a good way :). Thank you for these rare high quality and in-depth explanations you provide.

[@firstNamelastName-ho6lv]

It sounds awful IMO, like a cry for help

[@SamBrown3787]

@@firstNamelastName-ho6lvyou must like the sound of v6’s and I4’s. Peasant

[@ClickbaitMotorsports]

Except for the whole "reliability" thing. All these GT3500 investors trying to upkeep the GT350 stock are comedians. 🤡

[@kevinorozco906]

Legitimately my favorite car tech show on KZbin

[@zayseeu8337]

Because he knows his STUFF and he's cool

[@tayl0rd553]

Yeah, he's even better than Engineering Explained. I enjoy both channels.

[@Dethjingles995]

Same... It's the best car show on KZbin

[@chiefdenis]

I agree that he's better than engineering explained, he's very easy to follow

[@stiltongruyere9691]

I tried to mimic the piston motion with my energy drink, and it exploded when I opened it. Horsepower!

[@rarelycold6618]

I have a dirty mind, but something would explode in my example too

[@ivanbrasla]

@@rarelycold6618 your timing is too advanced :(

[@rarelycold6618]

@@ivanbrasla nah, it took a while

[@Jonathan_Doe_]

Did you shotgun it for maximum intake velocity? And chug a glass of milk after for maximum ‘exhaust pulse velocity’?

[@redbandit6277]

NO.

[@KevinMardirossian]

The Voodoo sounds so amazing, I’m glad they sacrificed a little bit of efficiency and engineering common sense to make it happen

[@richardprice5978]

actually it has a better firing order that is more even and spreads out the neighbours heat and pressure and crankshaft and camshafts loading and in some ways better for oiling. i know not offices on the first quick look 👀 but looking closely you can see it and other good reasons for the voodoo crank. as for the exitsoste manifolds it's for packaging and assembly/cost cutting and has a ok side effect of a different experience and sound ps. not a fan boy of ford as i drive old mopars ( and would love ❤️ a 4.5-5in stroker crankshaft for my hemi. so credit is due to ford even if my favourite sound it a stocker 6-pack ish 1968-72 444RB cold start with the thin wall aluminised steel pipes ) and chevys

[@gaddyify]

Z06.

[@richardprice5978]

@@gaddyify no old 60's big block Chevys for me 😁 not frarrie sounds as it sounds like a bee 🐝and i can't stand the way it feels and sounds

[@gaddyify]

@@richardprice5978 Are you talking about the LT6 in the new C8 Z06? The most powerful NA V8 in automotive history?

[@richardprice5978]

@@gaddyify nope not for the sound

[@simonward5833]

Where were you when I was falling asleep during mechanical engineering lectures? Your clarity and succinctness are second to none.

[@mario18sebast]

x2

[@Th3Birdman]

I am a car guy and I know a lot of this information, but the section at 4:55 was incredible and something I've never seen demonstrated before. I will absolutely be checking out that channel, thanks for the recommendation.

[@jaybruce593]

@vimal d BHP = (torque x RPM)/5252 is for calculating flywheel outputs, to calculate at the wheels you need to multiply this by the gear ratio and deduct transmission losses. So plugging in a 2.5:1 gear ratio and 15% transmission losses would give you Wheel BHP = (((torque x RPM)/5252) * 2.5) * 0.85) with the 0.85 being the whole 1.0 power minus the 0.15 (15%) lost through the trans mission --> propshaft --> diff --> half shafts --> hubs --> tyre deformation

[@lucianconstantin2051]

I watched some of your videos and now i see you here, indeed a nice surpise :))

[@bolt5564]

@vimal d horsepower= torque * RPM / 5252 This is true at the wheels and at the engine. For example if you had a engine that produced 100 lb feet of torque at 5252 RPM then you have 100 horsepower at the engine, now (assuming a frictionless drivetrain) if in third gear your car had a two-to-one gear ratio (your engine turns two times for every one turn of the wheels) you will have twice as much to torque at the wheel but they will turn half as fast so you will end up with torque times RPM divided by 5252 is equal to 200 lb feet * 2626 RPM / 5252 = 100 horsepower at the wheels. Engineering explained has done the best video I have found on this topic, but what really made it click with me was messing around with some Lego motors and gears.

[@bolt5564]

@vimal d I realized that Engineering Explained has done a lot of videos on horsepower and torque so here is the link to the one I am taking about kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIulopVmj6-Grbc Or if you just want to search for it is called "when to shift gears for the fastest acceleration".

[@Somanybeats]

Yeah that was pretty cool

[@MrTwoInc]

Phenomenal video. Personally I think the cross plane pushrod V8s are the best sounding engines. I also like how simple and Compact they are.

[@Torch4Life]

particularly in large displacements too. Nothing idles better, your ears can hear the torque it has even at idle

[@paulchristenson5256]

Compact? For that, I like the Ford V8 Flat Head not to be confused with the Flat Plane. ;)

[@challengerRT392]

I agree.

[@mateuszkucharski1350]

You think do, cause they are the best sounding engines. Flatplane is not even close.

[@BrownR87]

The worst part about watching your videos is I keep saying things that make people mistake me for someone who knows anything about cars. I generally know nothing much about cars and engines, but man you really explain things so simply I can actually make sensible statements about things like this now. As a Mustang enthusiast, it was especially interesting to learn about the Voodoo motor and why they chose it over the Coyote.

[@nfareview]

Amazing video! Yup, people always forget how the dual intake plenums and TB's add to the Ferrarieske sound characteristics of an FPC.

[@derekwalker4622]

Nice try, it would be "Ferrari-esque" as a proper spelling.

[@nfareview]

@@derekwalker4622 👍 How many have you owned? Gonna be a dick? I’ll be one right back lol

[@taylorpratt6287]

@@nfareview more interesting is how chevy has chosen the dual intake but there will be three valves connecting them, not that this is new but it is interesting, it would be great if he dove into explaining why and how it effects the sounds also, I've seen another recent video from someone briefly explaining how it helps with balance but that's it, not a real dummy explanation as i need and enjoy, this dude does an awesome job

[@nfareview]

@@taylorpratt6287 Ferrari did the same thing with the F136 engine in the 458 Italia. :)

[@teekay_1]

@@derekwalker4622 His spelling is correct for Ferrari's exported to Russia.

[@olivialambert4124]

The explanations have become exceptional here, frankly the best I've seen anywhere for a lot of topics. The demonstration of sound for the Voodoo headers was especially great for me. I understood the concept immediately, but actually hearing the difference was still shocking enough to make me smile with the surprise of it all.

[@switchlanez]

This summarizes the difference better than what I cobbled together from articles and 5+ other videos about FPC (including your older ones). And I STILL learned new stuff about FPC in this one. Outstanding. Going to share this on the C8 and S550 Mustang groups.

[@jaybruce593]

This was an outstandingly well produced and extremely informative yet entertaining video, thank you very much for making it.👍

[@ricardof.casellas665]

Owning the Gt350 felt in the ropes about the hype of changing headers. Your video made me realize how important are the OEM short headers to the intended sound design. So I won’t change a thing.

[@aaronschocke2147]

It can be a bummer when aftermarket is a letdown in an area that has a certain appeal outside of performance.

[@amansaleh5946]

How have I not seen this channel before? Such a clear, easy to follow explanation of the three engines while avoiding going down some rabbit holes.

[@dwayneeller5160]

I have to say I just turned 34 and realized that I need something to do being as I'm disabled and sit at home most of the time so I've decided to start me a project car and this KZbin channel along with a couple others has helped me get a great start on what I need to do and what I want out of my car.this guy right here is very detailed and I like the way he explains things

[@rod928s4]

Absolute perfection!! Stunningly researched, amazingly well-scripted and presented and your English is perfect! This is THE definitive video for the comparisons of these engines in my opinion.

[@Fred-fc8dv]

Stellar content and crystal-clear explanations as always, thank you very much, and especially for the better English subs

[@maxxwelthrix432]

This channel is an educational gold mine, the GT350R is my dream car.

[@ghostwrench2292]

GT350R is definitely in my top 10 of all time. I love that voodoo engine!

[@peekaboo1575]

I always thought that the Vodoo engine was nothing but a regular flat plane V8 with uneven headers. I am a little puzzled as to why Ford did not just do that. If you can make a crossplane V8 sound exactly like a Ferrari by using some fancy exhaust than surely there has to be a way to do the opposite, no? Anyway, nice of you to point people towards Moser's channel. That guy's work is criminally under-appreciated.

[@kayvon_is_likes]

Perhaps amateur V8 enthusiasts would've seen through that too easily? Even when engineering heavy and fast conglomerations of metal that need to be efficient and safe it seems companies can still take liberties for marketing's sake. I've yet to read an exposé on the supposed technical reasoning behind the manifold/exhaust design on the first 4-cylinder 718 Porsche Cayman.

[@The3chordwonder]

I'm going to definitely agree with you, the sound of the voodoo is the best sounding engine I have ever heard. The Coyote sounds great/mad and the LS sounds big and burly, and the typical flat plane smoothness/scream are wonderful sounds. The Viper's crazy firing angle vs ford's offset pin v10 would be another interesting video if you want to continue this sort of analysis. But the Voodoo just sounds like it is insanely mad and ready to explode (But in a good way). I buy engines I can afford, and whatever car they are attached to is second choice. Voodoo was out of my price range, so I have a Coyote with a Mustang GT connected to it.

[@richardbaumgart2454]

it's all personal preference...i still like that old school cross plane sound..just like some people like the sound of an american v-twin and i can't stand them

[@darrylsjodin7184]

Ya, I like the voo doo sound too, and the mustang coyote sounds cool. I have a LS6 with a Corvette attached to it.😀 It sounds great but could be louder. It has factory titanium exhaust, so it could last forever! And my wife probably won’t let me make it louder😂

[@niero4201]

Voodoo is the only V8 engine I've gotten my older brother to like, he HATES the sound of V8s, but the Voodoo sounds so intense, best description I've heard of the sound is that it sounds demonic, like it's possessed.

[@rogdaw7243]

WOW, AS A VIDEO EDITOR FOR 40 YEARS, THIS IS THE BEST TUTORIAL ON ANY SUBJ I'VE EVER SEEN. GREAT JOB!

[@scottjohnson3063]

Best content on a channel I’ve ever come across, been here from the start. Great work!

[@productiondesign9474]

Outstanding explanations. I really enjoyed the clear detailed descriptions and demonstrations.. As the owner of a GT350, it's interesting to hear how the flawed approach created not just a great sound but quite an amazing engine. We run this car with three drivers in back to back to back track sessions all day long and it's been flawless. The sound is distinctive from a mile and a half away.

[@ClickbaitMotorsports]

And a very unreliable engine. Thank you for beta testing the engine for all G3 Coyotes and Predator owners.

[@billthompson9595]

I can't say enough regarding all the work that has gone into to above excellent tutorial. A BIG THANK YOU! I have learned so much.

[@gagemosley8365]

this video earned a new subscriber, great in depth expaination with lots of videos, pictures, and sound clips. I look forward to seeing more of the content you produce.

[@Naggstek]

Secondary forces are so tough to wrap your head around when first learning about them, they just don't quite seem as intuitive as the primary forces. After i watch a few more of your videos i think i'll have it. Lots of great information in here like usual!

[@abetterworld96]

Flatplane crankshaft is all for me. Also, props for the clear explanation, never watched a better one. U just earned a subscriber.

[@n0ti5]

Very cool, i remember suggesting this one last year in one of your iconic engines videos. Didn't know it had those funky headers or that up down crank shaft. All i knew was the great power per liter and awesome sound. Thanks for the knowledge

[@CorollaManDan]

Studying for my ASE certification, thank you for uploading this level of content for free. 🙏 Favorite teacher on KZbin

[@noompunk]

Thank you for providing detailed explanation of the Voodoo engine, was wondering about this for almost a year

[@brianwhite9671]

Another great video! The clarity you bring to complex topics is excellent! I do want to point something out at 2 minutes 20 seconds. There may be a bit of confusion when you say that an even firing interval improves balance and smoothness. An even firing interval, by itself, will not improve balance, just the smoothness. To the uninitiated, there may be some confusion that, somehow, mechanical balance is affected by firing interval.

[@donguhl2499]

Yet another totally awesome video!!! You sir, have set the standard! Thank you!

[@fuse8052]

Dude , really good and informative video. Thank you. I learned SO much from this video. You explained everything SO well. I never knew how flat plane V8s held up at all but now I can see how they work. Thank you

[@igorsouza4066]

Dude, you're awesome, thank you for incredible explanations in every single video of yours!

[@Niroborn]

I like your balance videos a lot! Can you overview more exotic engine layouts like V12, V16 or opposing pistons engines, please!

[@sgsjake3904]

FINALLY! A VIDEO EXPLAINING THIS! I always try to explain to people why the GT350 flag plane crank isn’t even a GOOD flat plane crank, but they just get so hung up on “flat plane crank” that they can’t see the massive downfalls of the Ford variant

[@finish_my_projects]

Just Ford doing Ford things 😂

[@MaaZeus]

I on the other hand have massive respect for Ford for doing something new, weird and out of the box. We already have Ferraris, BMW's and Audi's super cars. They are engineering marvels, perfection, but also nothing new and kinda bland at this point. Car manufacturers should take more risks, make something new and fun that breaks the molds just for the sake of it instead of aiming for yet-another-perfect but ultimately characterless machine. Have more artists and visionaries than text book engineers. Be outrageous like Lamborghinis of old before they became Ferrari 2.0. Sure not every car will be a hit but at least there would be a lot more memorable ones.

[@sgsjake3904]

@@MaaZeus the issue was it wasn’t about “being weird” or “adding character”, it was because Ford was being cheap and didn’t want to restructure the front end to account for the dual plane intake manifold that would be needed for a traditional flat plane firing order

[@Tommymazzel]

Love this content. Keep up the good work💪🏻

[@ElectricBillAlbright]

Very informative and well presented. I've tried to explain to people why one engine sounds better than another. Most people think it the exhaust system. I've always known the firing order has all to do with it. Especially when its alternating from one bank to the other bank, rather than one cylinder firing and another in succession on the same bank. Glad I found your channel. Going to watch more right now! Keep sharing your great knowledge. It always amazes me to hear real engineering explained. I knew there was more than meets the eye with crankshaft design and firing sequence. Then you bring out the rocking and primary/secondary forces and it is amazing that all these things are figured into the design of just the crankshaft! Like piston pin location slighly off from center line. One time an engineer commented on reasons we have different tranny fluids (Mercon, Dextron etc) It floored me with how much technology goes into the fluids, the chemistry and how some react to various gasket materials and especially O-ring materials like Viton seals. Amazing stuff 👍👍👍🇺🇸

[@km6832]

The voodoo is a really great engine and sounds amazing.

[@rarelycold6618]

Best sounding flat-plane

[@Lanse1984]

Yeah no not even close. You do know flat 12 and v12 engines are flat planes right? Lol

[@kevin9c1]

Unfortunately for all of the things an engine needs to do aside from sound it's pretty badly compromised. It's still cool but it's not even close to being in the same league as the LT6 or other true flat plane engines. But, I give them credit for sweating the sound.

[@288gto7]

@@Lanse1984 lol, please show me how they are flat planes. If you look at a v12 or inline 6 crank you ll see that crankpins are found at 3 planes. There isnt a term for them but they would be tri-plane. The crankpins are situated on 3 different planes

[@rarelycold6618]

@@Lanse1984 forgive me, I left out v8 because this video was about v8s

[@adampetten1009]

So glad you did this video as I was curious on the differences of the vodoo.. I really wish this car was still in production. Here in Canada at least GT350r cars value are gone through the roof, people are making 30 to 40% over msrp. A buddy has one with aftermarket exhaust and its pure sex.

[@dcdanger6151]

I applaud your expertise and well thought out presentation of a complicated subject

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

This is the absolute definitive guide on the flat plane crank...thank you.

[@markurbancowboy]

Awesome video, definitely shows how the engines work and why they sound like they do!

[@WilliamMoser]

nice one, cheers for the mention!

[@d4a]

It's the very least I can do. Thank you for allowing me to use your awesome stuff.

[@ec6933]

This was the best description of a complicated idea I've ever heard in my entire life. I generally have an extremely hard time understanding concepts like this but I got it on the very first try I'm kind of freaked out I almost want to cry lol. I'm not dumb I just need to explain to a certain way apparently.... Thank you

[@kturek625]

I have to say this was an excellent video, with excellent explanations, graphics, and sound! You did a fantastic job and I congratulate you

[@tayl0rd553]

The sound of the Voodoo is definitely an acquired taste. When the GT350 first came out, I borderline hated the way it sounded. However, I still bought a GT350R despite the sound. It takes a while, but the sound does grow on you. I still won't say I love the way it sounds, but I do love revving it out to redline. I'm actually disappointed that Ford caved to the knuckle draggers and didn't make it sound like a traditional flat plane V8. That would've been badass. That aside, the Voodoo just sounds mad as hell ALL the time. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

[@duomaxwell5807]

I fell in love with the GT350 before it even came out...one of Americas best hands down.

[@rod928s4]

Yes, I agree with what you are saying, tayl0rd. The LT6 certainly does belong in the new Vette and I'm now even happier with the Voodoo sound as well. I'm glad the GT350 doesn't sound Euro-exotic, it just sounds different...mad as hell, like you said.

[@gopherit4952]

Im.glad they made it different. Totally unique

[@tayl0rd553]

@Peter Angles Maybe he didn't feel like racing a 4-banger was worth wasting the gas. If you stick to trying to race the Ecoboost and old V6 Mustangs, you might have a better chance of them racing you.

[@lumiapowered8463]

@Peter Angles Not everyone's looking to race on the street...save it for the track

[@baymoto553]

What a great explanation of the differences in these engines. Made me even happier that I managed to purchase a 2016 GT350 a couple of years ago. And I agree that the sound of that engine is the best V-8 sound (imho anyway). Thanks for a great video.

[@RBZ06LT6]

He literally said it was the worst design and that it was pointless. Typical Ford nonsense again.

[@baymoto553]

@@RBZ06LT6 Wasn't all that pointless as the new Corvette will be set up with a flat plane crank as well. Don't knock it until you try it. The Voodoo engine is a classic as is the Shelby GT350. In the 3 years since I bought mine the value has increased by -/$8,000. I'll take more of this typical Ford nonsense anytime.

[@NLBassist]

I think I said this before. I used to be a car salesman and I went to a technical/commercial car school. I know a lot about cars and technique and on birthdays I'm always the one telling the younger kids about car technique. But your channel taught me such an awful lot.... I'm in awe. Thanks.

[@igns_kbn]

4:54 oh god, that's great! I am immensely grateful for this already, and there is still so much information ahead!

[@denniswobbe3157]

Honestly, I really enjoyed the video. I knew that the firing order was different between the Ferrari V8s and American V8s. But didn't know the why. And the way you described the sound of the Voodoo engine. It sounds like a cross plain that lost it's mind. That was pure genius! And I will laugh about that for s long time to come

[@ellisjackson3355]

I'd have to say that my favorite sounding v8 is the P60B40 by BMW. There's also tricks to play around with cross plane crank sounds like x pipes, 180 degree headers, 8-1 headers. These are basically tricks to "rearrange" the exhaust pulses so that they can facilitate better exhaust scavenging. As a result, it does smooth out the exhaust tone and sounds more even firing and scream-y. I also like the sound of high revving nascar v8s

[@288gto7]

Ah yeah gotta love the bundle of snake headers. They look so good as well

[@imadude85]

For me the v8 in F355 sounds best.

[@CaptainDayne]

Bmw 8's are junk!

[@porschelover04]

@@CaptainDayne generally, you'd be right. But look up the P60; it's a pure racing motor (and the S65, for that matter)

[@CaptainDayne]

@@porschelover04 Ive worked on enough of the twin turbo v8's , and the tt v8 with variable lift cam. Believe me say no to bmw v8's. When they are right they run! But they break down alot! Faulty valve seals , coolant transfer pipes, turbo coolant lines, And cam lift followers(stamped steel). Ive had one that locked up due to excessive carbon build up in the combustion chamber. So ill pass!

[@anko6999]

I've watched many but this one was really full , complete - nice thanks

[@williamhardes8081]

Ford Australia used the unequal length headers on some of their performance V8's in the early 70's and got very good results. the sound of that voodoo engine is absolute music to the ears.

[@tedjones450]

It should be noted that GM is using Titanium connecting rods to lighten the reciprocating mass of the engine, which is interesting.

[@288gto7]

Lot of manufacturers have done that with flat planes. first time ferrari did it was with f355 in 1994. increased mass increases secondary forces thats why they are doing everything they can to lighten the rotating assembly

[@devandrasimanjuntak1646]

as my above comment stated, it’s actually a common practice, but I believe this is potentially the first time we’ll be getting those rods in a car less than $100k (I say potentially, we don’t know the price of the C8 Z06 just yet)

[@jkl6868]

The original NSX had titanium rods. In 1990.

[@RBZ06LT6]

@@jkl6868 did the guy say they were the first? He just said its worth mentioning it. Jeez, calm down..😂

[@jkl6868]

@@RBZ06LT6 🤣just an FYI to let people know that this is not new!

[@Lanse1984]

Ford also lost tons of money in grenading Voodoo engines. Hence why it was discontinued even as demand for it was very high. Its honestly a frankenstein engine.

[@toddmajo5093]

Absolutely not why it was discontinued. Car was a limited run from day one.

[@ghostwrench2292]

I’m a Ford dealer technician at a large shop. The only voodoo engine I’ve seen blown up was because the owner missed 3rd gear and got 1st when downshifting on the track. AKA money shift. Carnage was impressive. 🙂

[@ViniciusNegrao_]

You managed to make the explanation interesting, this is like the 4th video on the subject I tried watching and the first I actually finished

[@John-ld8ej]

Loved the video! This is 22 minutes of excellent quality content. Very infirmative.

[@guattodaddo]

Kudos to you for making these videos man! Will you make a video about different kind of suspensions? I don't know just saying, it'll be cool

[@d4a]

Yes, definitely, suspensions will be coming in the future once I exhaust some of the key stuff from engines

[@altergreenhorn]

@@d4a Dont forget a wird but genius suspension from the citroen 2CV6 and DS. Not related but you should look at Puch Pinzgauer drivetrain as well it is completely different as others are.

[@steveflor9942]

Superb content here. Wonderful video! I would add: The Voodoo is a nearly square engine. The other flat-plane engine are all oversquare. I attribute to the Voodoo being part of the Modular engine family. As such, inherently hamstrung by bore size limit.

[@airplanesandfootball]

Agreed. Excellent job! I also want to point out that the reason why they didn't choose to go with the two intake plenums is that they didn't have enough space in the engine bay. They lowered the height of the hood of an already tight engine bay so they just didn't have enough space to have two intakes.

[@lowlifeangler]

Gee doesn't Subaru have a square shaped engine?

[@nthgth]

@@lowlifeangler the FA20 is square, yes

[@keithcannon3682]

Kooks headers on voodoo sound the best!

[@keithcannon3682]

Put some itb's on that voodoo and it would be perfection!

[@Thuddster]

Some of your best work, m8. Keep it up, we're hungry for more!

[@nomismg]

Just discovered you channel! Geez it was so informative, good work!

[@GIGABACHI]

Awesome content as usual. You have yet to disappoint me. 👌🙂👍

[@coolomino]

Very educational video! Should know all of this stuff :)

[@drunowakowski4880]

Thanks for an awesome breakdown and putting the sound in there.

[@garronah]

Damn. What a video. I thought I was knowledgeable about engines, but this was informative, and the graphics were perfect, and I learnt a shitload. Wish I had more thumbs up to give this video.

[@theshakes3083]

I have a GT350 and this was a fantastic video covering all of the info. I thought I knew a lot, apparently I had a ton more to learn. This was superbly well done!

[@automotive-insider]

It shows crossplane on the front?

[@802Garage]

Potato potato? 😂 Never heard that one. I get it when I say it out loud though. Not the next video I expected from you, but phenomenal as always! This is why I love boxer engines though. So simple. 😀 I just want someone to make a flat 8. If nobody is gonna do it, I'll do it myself. 🙃

[@Xayuap]

Of course there ar flat 8 but nowhere tu put them anymore. They don't fit

[@d4a]

I can't believe you haven't heard potatox2? Maybe it's really old and pase and I didn't notice 😅 Let's build it together. You, me, a solid block of iron, lots of files and some jb weld. We build massive social hype and then have it explode om on the first start and pretend how we didn't see it coming.

[@GetOffMyLog]

@@d4a tomato tomato is more common i think thats what he meant

[@Xayuap]

@@d4a And the audience pretending they weren't wanting the explosion.

[@aethro4375]

@@d4a I guess you meant cross V8's with more aggressive cam design cuz' they really are potatoes.

[@Desmouffe]

Hard to keep up but very informative. I like it...

[@beast427]

God I love the way the GT350 sounds. Very happy I get to hear it everyday when I start her up!

[@ChadRazorback]

Man, that ford voodo engine sounds amazing. Speaking of rumble.... I'd love to hear what a boxer engine with a crossplane crank would sound like. Unless i'm missing something, unlike an I4, an H4 with a crossplane would still be balanced, and might be able to get that rumble out while still using equal length headers, since it will now have un equal firing intervals.

[@johndorn9752]

I'm definitely no expert on this topic but I believe this would result with the 2 Pistons at top dead center or bottom dead center while the other two would be in the middle opposed. The issue would then be additional rocking forces. Because the two in middle of stroke would be imposing less 2ndary forces to those at the either tdc or bdc and therefore creating a little rocking force on the crank. It is an interesting thought experiment and I wish I could try it in practice with old parts.

[@ChadRazorback]

@@johndorn9752 Imagine an H2 engine. It's perfectly balanced as long as the crankpins are 180 degrees from each other. (aside from a very small rocking couple due to the pistons being offset by an inch or so.) So put two H2's together where the first pair are at 0 and 180 degrees and the second pair are at 90 and 270 degrees. I'm also not an expert, but I don't see how this wouldn't be just as balanced as your flatplane crank H4

[@chemwrite]

Truly great video! You answered a burning question about the Voodoo engine. Thanks a ton for that. I have a question and maybe a request. Could you address the V-10 engines that Chrysler and Ford made? I believe these were V-8s with the blocks extended to add two more cylinders. But what did they do to the crankshaft? Do they have split-pins to replicate a 72 degree firing order? I can't seem to find a photo or an article that addresses this. These V-10s have been around for years and I still don't know how they did it.

[@electric7487]

The Ford V10's have crankpins split forward by 18° so that each pair of cylinders fires 72° apart. The same is true for the older 5.0 Lambo V10, which is why you can make a Gallardo sound like F1. Even fire V10 pros: Even firing, less torsional vibration (instantaneous torque goes between 1.58 and 0.36 times the mean torque), smoother, lighter flywheels can be used. Even fire V10 cons: Perfect primary balance requires a boxer configuration or 108° V angle with +36° split crankpins. 90° and 72° angles have a significant primary rocking moment. Split-pin crank not as strong or stiff as common-pin crank. The Dodge Viper, BMW S85, and 5.2 Lambo engines have non-split crankpins and thus fire unevenly (with firing intervals alternating between 90° and 54°). This is why the Huracán sounds like a 5 cylinder and can't sound like F1. Odd fire (90°) V10 pros: Perfect primary balance with only crank weights needed (no balance shaft), stiffer crankshaft. Odd fire V10 cons: More torsional vibration (instantaneous torque goes from 1.91 times to 0.012 times the mean torque, and you have more high-order harmonics, with the 7.5 and 12.5 orders being the worst offenders in this engine), rougher running, heavier flywheel required.

[@Rastor0]

Another great video, your explanations are so clear you are a great teacher

[@JayRussellDuramax]

The redline of an engine is MUCH more dependent on the valvetrain than it is on the weight of the crankshaft. If you increase valvetrain rigidity, cross-plane, pushrod engines can easily rev in excess of 10,000 RPM - and be very snappy and responsive.

[@crowdsurfpp2192]

I absolutely loved my gt350. Hands down the best sound to ever come from a show room car under 100k…… $43k under 100k. For less than $60k you had amazing sound that went through track tires every weekend, issue free.

[@richardbaumgart2454]

i'd rather have a c-8 at 60k...it would out perform that stang in every way..Jay Leno got one to run 2.6 seconds 0-60 completely stock

[@ajctrading]

How do you catagorize Completely stock?

[@RBZ06LT6]

@@ajctrading in the way that its completely stock. Get it now?

[@gerywilliams6263]

Outstanding commentary and explanation. Thank you for this very informative, enjoyable video.

[@alainlegault2940]

I love engine sound. I roll down the window to hear other people's cars, much to my wife's annoyance. But I drive a utilitarian, pragmatic, and budget friendly car so I must live vicariously through others. I once spent several hours in a convertible Camaro and was very disappointed that the exhaust was muted to the point of sounding like a 6 cylinder. I was told that the target market of the convertible Camaro did not want a loud car... I don't understand those people. The sound is definitely an important part of the experience for me. The sound of the Mustangs has always been among my favourite and agree with your opinion of the GT350. The GT350 is most certainly enjoyable to hear. Great video. Enjoyable, entertaining, and even educational. Until today I had very little undertanding of the differences between cross plane and flat plane crankshafts.

[@gmoroder]

Great video! I think it'd be cool to compare the C8 Z06's LT6 engine to the original DOHC LT5 used in the C4 ZR-1. Both have overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder, but I believe the LT5 doesn't have a flat plane crank, among other things.

[@ghostwrench2292]

You are correct. LT5 is/was cross plane crank. Nevertheless, in the early ‘90’s it was impressive that Chevrolet built and put a DOHC V8 in a Corvette.

[@drfaticus]

@@ghostwrench2292 gm did not make that engine,it came from lotus.

[@gmoroder]

@@ghostwrench2292 GM and Lotus both cooperated on the engine. It was put through lots of endurance testing to ensure reliability, so it doesn't need as much service as a Lotus powerplant thankfully. Overall a very cool engine

[@gmoroder]

@@drfaticus Both Lotus and GM cooperated on it, to the point where GM briefly bought Lotus for the project's completion. The engines were then manufactured at Mercury Marine's facilities, then shipped to Bowling Green, Kentucky to be installed in ZR-1 Corvette's. There was also an LT5 in one variation of the Lotus Elise GT1, stroked from 5.7L to 6.0L, twin-turbocharged and given a flat plane crankshaft. Most Elise GT1's ran with the Lotus Esprit's 3.5L twin-turbo V8, however.

[@drfaticus]

@@gmoroder ok thats what you think,which is fine.My thought is gm did not come up with that at that time it was lotus like i said earlier.

[@Meekmillan]

Always thought the GT350 sounded like a kaiju, like it could’ve done voice over for pacific time or something. Now I now why, it’s because it’s just weird. Lol

[@moix5915]

You, sir, have very high quality and entertaining explanations!

[@Slaktrax]

Another great video which you explain very well, thank you!

[@skyrocketautomotive670]

Dude your channel is amazing. Literally can't stop watching. Even when it's areas I'm familiar with you explain everything so eloquently that it's a pleasure to go back to stuff I've looked into and learn more about it. Thanks!

[@288gto7]

Ford used this layout because it gave the best breathing characteristics with their weird 4-3-1 headers. And they had to use 4-3-1 headers because 4-2-1 or 4-1 did not fit in the mustang engine bay with the cats they wanted to use.

[@captainwin6333]

They did this because of the sentimental attachment of Americans to their notion of what a V8 sounds like. The result is a very compromised engine.

[@AugustoRallo]

This makes a lot more sense to me, changing crank arrangement just to go for a sound signature sounds (pun intended) a bit silly to me.

[@finish_my_projects]

@@AugustoRallo no lol he's not correct at all, they compromised their engine for sound, the headers they use take up MORE space than the correct 4:2:1 headers a flat plan should have (with the correct crank) as evidence by the fact you can purchase aftermarket headers in that configuration that fit

[@portsideyachtsales4808]

At 64 years of age and a major car nut since a very early age I learned or more importantly understood more about things that matter to me than I ever did in four years of university. Thanks so much...this was truly brilliant!

[@JPoz-wi3rw]

Your videos are simply impressive! Please, keep going!

[@CJRyan-lj7zz]

A heavy crankshaft certainly adds to the flywheel effect, making an unladen engine gain and lose RPM more slowly. But how could it limit operating RPM?

[@midnightblaze6988]

Functionally it doesn't. He's wrong there.

[@Johnny_OSG]

Because it vibrates and flexes more due to its own weight, also puts more stresses on the bearings. Of course you can't rev it high despite that, just lot less reliably

[@Dayandcounting]

Most red lines are soft red lines today determined by when the power rolls over. As such a flat plane because of the exhaust scavenging will make peak power slightly higher delaying rollover by a few hundred rpm everything else being equal.

[@crxtodd16]

Very informative. I didn't realize the Voodoo was so unique. They made an inferior design for sound. Huh. Cool.

[@77jaycube69]

Cause this Murica that's why...lol.

[@thymiosmantzaras7618]

Another awesome video! Great job man 👏

[@OldManTenno]

Great information! It's pretty cool to see what engineering teams did what to achieve the goals they wanted. Also good to understand why the Voodoo and Gemini engines sound so different, even though they are basically labeled the same.

[@MyWatchIsEnded]

This question is coming from the place of ignorance but honest curiosity, Why is it not possible to fire in sequence from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th to 7th to 8th? Like this: 1 -- 2 3 -- 4 5 -- 6 7 -- 8 Kind of like a caterpillar or centipede using its front legs first and then progressively moving further back to the rear legs to propel itself forward.

[@neosis4182]

Vastly inefficient configuration

[@jameshaulenbeek5931]

That would require a very complex crankshaft assembly - think 2 crossplane crankshafts offset from each other. It would be very heavy, and the counterweight necessary to counteract the imbalances would make it generally incapable of producing any real power.

[@802Garage]

It's possible as far as I know, but I think the primary reason to avoid it is to reduce undesirable forces on the crankshaft. Putting all the force on one crank pin twice in a row repeatedly for every section of the crankshaft would cause a lot of twisting force that could shorten the life of the crank and create extra wear on the supporting bearings. That's my guess.

[@d4a]

You can imagine combustion events as a "hit" on the engine...and you can imagine the engine as a boat. Your goal is to keep hitting the boat without sinking it. This is is why you want to even out the distribution of your hits from the outside in and then from the outside out. Every combustion event essentially tries to unbalance the engine or "tip the boat" so you hit it on the other end to prevent it from tipping over. Hitting it repeatedly in the same spot will obviously sink it very fast. Excuse the slightly stupid analogy :)

[@GetOffMyLog]

@@d4a stupid analogy? No, that is very intuitive for a layperson to understand?

[@ssllhh100]

the 350 sound has that x factor that no other engine has, i wonder what it would sound like if it was smaller like say a 4.0, would it sound and feel like compared to the audi RS4 and E90/92 M3 ...

[@justinjwr]

Make some weird headers like that and find out

[@woodywoodpecker3643]

Amazing breakdown. Crazy difference in exhaust notes on GT350.

[@alexluke84]

This channel is so underrated...I am just consuming it all 🤪 I will listen to everything...such a good explanation about engine details...more of everything 😎 I am the new subscriber from now on...also the engine lover, everything from V8 to diesel...to two strokes amd Wankels...transmissions and forced inductions...everything 💪

[@Fender7495]

Sorry but i have a question: you said that the cross-plane v8 can't reach up to high RPMs. How did BMW managed Rev his S65 up to 8.300RPMs?

[@cjmunnee3356]

Small, lightweight pistons that don't need heavy counterweights and a really short stroke do a lot for RPMs in a cross-plane V8.

[@finish_my_projects]

It's EASIER to get high rpms in a flat plane crank, and probably even more important it will Rev faster.... you can make a cross plane Rev really high, but the heavier crank may impede performance with such a wide rpm range to traverse... none of these statements are absolutes, it's all about a design making something easier to accomplish, less exotic materials, better long term reliability, packaging of the motor, cost, ect...

[@randyhavard6084]

In my opinion the cross plane v8 sounds better at lower RPMs but a flat plane sounds great at high RPM.

[@storm14k]

Subscribed. Presentation here is excellent. And I also love that GT350 sound and now understand it.

[@Richard4point6]

Thank you for an excellent dissertation! I just acquired a GT 350.

[@deusexaethera]

I get the distinct feeling that if I ever want to own a second sports car, I should buy one soon and keep it in storage until I have somewhere to drive it. I feel like the current generation of combustion-powered sports cars is going to be internal-combustion's grand finale. Cross-plane sounds better to me, even if flat-plane technically works better.

[@nordic5490]

Cross plane sounds like a 60's designed truck engine, that it is.

[@scd603]

Come listen to my voodoo live... I have owned 10+ mustangs in my life, never heard anything as sweet