CrossFit VS Weightlifting | Taylor Self & Tanner Shuck Debate

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[@wthibeau]

After listening to Tanner, I no longer believe in free speech.

[@angelacole4411]

Tanner is the poster phrase “saying a lot without saying anything”

[@gemmadawson2230]

My powerlifting husband (national competitor)looks super fit, is so strong, but is not fit and needs to monitor his heart and health. He has enough muscle that can protect him from some injuries but definitely is a mess! Im fitter looking after 3 babies. Can get up and down, move, run, lift, jump, agility, and CrossFit is the winner. Even just running 5k only,doesnt improve your running as much as throwing that running in a metcon. Can never be too strong or too skilled

[@I_am_fani_speegle]

On this episode of The Sevan Podcast, Sevy welcomes the Thumb, Taylor Self and “elite CrossFit athlete” Tanner Shuck. Self and Shuck cross flesh swords over CrossFit and RippentowFit as Hiller gathers material for his next Bryce video. Matt Souza drops in with Dr. Sean Rocket who discusses what hurts, and Sevy defines DEI hires. All this with the best chat in the CrossFit space, and more on TSP. LFG!

[@trevorgentry4578]

Tanner is so goofy. He doesn’t even know what he’s arguing for. Just arguing to argue. Taylor presented clear rebuttals to everything Tanner said while Tanner just basically “nah bro you’re wrong”.

[@travisjones22]

Didn’t Tanner claim he could beat Taylor in CrossFit head-to-head? That’s the real content we want to see!

[@ytrevxnge5992]

tanner used to do cross fit

[@dustinmurdock204]

This guy tanners argument is so weak. There is a lot of nuance when it come to fitness and getting stronger.

[@blueprinthealthandfitness2014]

Yeap. Absolute FLOG

[@travisjones22]

I respect Tanner and Rip - and anyone really who genuinely wants to help people get healthier. What I don’t respect is when they hate on CrossFit - saying things like “CrossFit sucks” - just to get clicks and views and to promote their own methodologies at the expense of CrossFit. Yet, they also say things like “CrossFit is the single greatest thing that has happened to the health and fitness industry” but it’s hidden within a podcast somewhere the general public will never see. In this case, they are no better than politicians, speaking out of both sides of their mouth, whenever it is most convenient for them. Kudos to Tanner for coming on the show. Good content everyone!

[@bananaman2002]

Good comment 👍

[@coltonmcvey7751]

This guy can't agree to disagree. Taylor crushed this homeboy.

[@MsKatikindschuh]

I love Taylor and Sevan but this tanner guy is so hard to listen to. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and he’s willing to scream louder than everyone just to be heard. That’s fine but wow his inability to have an open mind is unbecoming

[@ann5028]

@@MsKatikindschuh I don’t think he went into this debate looking to hear any other viewpoint. I think he just started off defensive. Hillers vid is awesome wish those two would debate

[@blueprinthealthandfitness2014]

Yeap. Absolute FLOG

[@mrscaitlanburns]

Wish I would have been live for this one. I’ve had RA since I was 3. When I started CrossFit I was 5’5 110# because my body was so inflamed and malnourished. Now I am 135# and all the weight gain is muscle from classic CrossFit/no additional strength training. So I would beg to differ that you can’t get significantly stronger and more muscle with just classic CrossFit and the proper nutrition.

[@EllieHiller]

The “dude / bro count” is unbearable 😅

[@amandadoyle6866]

But dude…

[@senjore88]

Horrible! I feel i need to make a break every few min. So ineloquent.

[@kevindoyle4077]

"I promise you...."

[@abstractgeniuscomments]

Tried to make a drinking game out of it; still not sober....

[@ellensmithhh]

If he says bro one more time I’m gonna scream

[@ryanschultz3615]

Let me get this straight, Crossfit changed Tanner’s life for the better. Yet he doesn’t want other people to do CrossFit? He trained every day at a Crossfit affiliate. He trains at a Crossfit affiliate every day yet he hates Crossfit and doesn’t think it’s a good training modality. This dude is definitely Democrat with all his double talk.

[@Ferchomartinez8]

What we need is Hiller vs Tanner competition now!

[@MBbienvenu]

Taylor got a big 'ol brain and Tanner's is so slippery smooth. I don't think Tanner can spell semantics. He sounds like he wants to yell but has to whisper because his wife is sleeping in the next room.

[@jeremyeatworld807]

Tanner just doesn't want to call CrossFit CrossFit.

[@karikoppenhaver9441]

I do CrossFit four times a week. It has made me fitter than I’ve ever been but during open gym or other times I like to do bodybuilding ( heavy Lifting) for aesthetic reasons you can do both. Most of my crossfit friends do the same.

[@josephhowman4211]

I think we should get 4 fat people and pay them to do CrossFit/5x5 Strength training and see who is the most improved @ life.. I would pay to watch that sevan

[@erica9563]

Great idea

[@BernhardKohli]

AWESOME idea!!!!

[@joshuaroysden4455]

Alright.. there’s no reasoning with this dude. Put them dukes up and do the man dance. Bro.

[@mikebee6530]

Great conversation. I can totally see Tanners perspective but I can only think logically that crossfit is the best universal training for all walks of life.

[@Jonm89]

I have done CrossFit for 7 years now. A few years ago someone convinced me to run a 5k. With zero training - and I would run as little as possible - at 225 lb body weight, I ran it in less than 24 minutes. I have CrossFit to thank for that. Not weightlifting. Pretty sure at 225 lb bw - while strenght for sure played a factor in that - my endurance from CrossFit is what helped me accomplish that time on the 5k with no running training. Also zero soreness the next day.

[@JacksonHenkle-ez8ve]

Why don’t we get a head to head competition? Taylor vs Tanner, who ever lives longer wins

[@trevorgentry4578]

Dude!! Bro! Broooo, gosh bro! Duuudee, BRO, DEWD

[@Nickpeters.physio]

7 minutes in. Taylor is winning 36-0.

[@risewood1372]

I think we need to decide whether or not doing CrossFit makes you stronger. I believe CrossFit does make you stronger….im stronger after doing CrossFit & I’m fitter too. That’s probably a bonus, but I’d rather be strong and fit & be able to do more than just lift something heavy.

[@ann5028]

I feel like I’m screaming into the void and know everyone here agrees. I saw more improvement on street parking programming for 3 months than my 3 years IFBB comp prep He literally doesn’t get how strong CrossFit makes people. I don’t know where the block is if he competed and coached it.

[@TheHazchic]

He is thinking in Bro terms, not most of us out just doing life. ❤ Streetparking

[@davidmacella9648]

This makes me want to hit a 1rm bench then do only 1000 pushups a day for a month then re test to see what happens.

[@polarbearfitness2735]

If you can do a 1000 full lock out push ups your on a different level dude respect

[@zacbeasler8991]

I do the exact split Tanner gives as his example of program for the lady. 3 days strength training with 2 conditioning days.

[@pjauregui20]

Made it 28 minutes into this before deciding to turn it off. I was hoping to hear a good debate but Tanner really had no talking points or arguments for his viewpoint. I don't know if Tanner is on this podcast the whole time but bless you if you listened to the whole thing.

[@stevenstearns9873]

As a home health physical therapist who sees a lot of pretty sick people, I don’t really give a shit if they can bicep curl 10lb if they can’t get out of a chair. I take the “needs of Olympic athletes and our grandparents differ by degree not kind” to work with me every day. In the grandpa scenario around 7:00 mark I’m 100000% giving my grandpa *relatively* high intensity body weight stuff over worrying about how much force he can generate against an external object, as that is one very pigeon holed definition of strength.

[@djwinston06]

Exactly!

[@abalogh87]

We have “strong guys” at my CrossFit gym. They have way better back and front squat maxes than me for example, but I can go unbroken on a medium weight for longer than those guys. I also run a sub 6 mile and those “strong” guys can’t.. I don’t understand Tanners argument or opinion.

[@MBbienvenu]

"Bro" is the new "humble" 🦇🦇🦇

[@hardlylast]

Um can we not do both?

[@mustaintinshop]

My takeaway from Taylor vs Tanner... "CrossFit is not for everybody, but it is for anybody." -Greg Glassman

[@brooke_lasseigne]

Tanners eyelids have muscles cause he flexes them way too much! Taylor has very valid points, my grandpa is 104…he’s never lifted weights, however he walked and squatted down and did “functional” movements all his life giving him great muscle density until he broke his hip. Point proven 👌🏼

[@adanduran2088]

Don’t let them silence you Tanner✊🏾😎!!!

[@heatherreid287]

I did purely strength training and walking for over 5 years. Moved to CrossFit and my lifts have got stronger, my cardio has got better also my back and joint pain I had from lifting heavy have disappeared.

[@patriotfury4013]

In the few years that I’ve been doing CrossFit, I’ve set new PR’s in every movement as far as strength. For example, my bench press 1RM has increased from 280# to 325# since 2017. Tanner is mistaken and should probably just stay in his lane.

[@stephaniecentric6903]

If I had to take a shot every time I heard the word bro…

[@Discipline_equals_freedom]

This dude is high af. There’s no way moving your body in multiple different movement patterns and using varying weight is worse then straight strength training. Especially if you want to be a capable well rounded human.

[@RightOnwithDan]

Tanner had balls to come on with Taylor and Sevan. This was a solid debate. I’m all for more of this.

[@nicolehanches6781]

I’m so pissed, props to Taylor for having patience, “building muscle and preserving muscle is health…”. If a guy who barely can put on his socks squats +500lb at parallel is he really healthy!😭 Looking at the Mr Olympias they lacked a lot of mobility…

[@stevenb6462]

I did old school weight lifting for three years straight. I could bench and squat 300 lbs at 50 yrs old. I weighed 280 before and after these three years. I joined a crosstraining group, found out I could not do a single set up, a single jump rope, a six inch box jump. So even though I was stronger, I definetely was not fit.

[@reubenwaters357]

I’d agree with this tanner guy but then we’d both be wrong

[@k1ngv1per70]

Tanner on al things Taylor said: " Yes, Taylor you are right I agree 100% with you, and there is validity in that, but also no" hahaha

[@KateGotina]

Tanner seemed so confused and self-contradicting. And I think he doesn't understand crossfit beyond "it's a bunch of different exercises". Which is wild considering he says he coached it. Maybe that's why he couldn't coach it effectively and left to be a strength coach. If he said he couldn't help people by coaching crossfit, was he one of the bad crossfit coaches that he mentioned. Maybe if he saw Taylor coach and program, and not only workout, he'd find what he missed. That would a great win. I'd say the most frustrating part was when Tanner multiple times called mainsite - Crossfit "in its purest form“. Sentinel should be mainsite.

[@annafiddler371]

For the everyday person. CrossFit is more important. For someone with a goal like a WL meet or powerlifting.. strength is maybe first then supplement some CrossFit. I feel like I listened to circles lol

[@jedidiahsnelson2924]

Look at Spain, rated one of the healthiest countries in the world. Why? Because people eat quality foods, and are active. Not because that strength train

[@marlows47]

Tanner was... something... and Taylor wasn't a cartoon character. It was nice. Dudes super intelligent.

[@CodyWescottGolf]

I definitely think Tanner needs to open his mind a bit on some of this, I used to share some of his views many years ago and was a supporter of Mark Rippetoe after reading Starting Strength. That being said, this was a bit unfair to him being that this "debate" was 2 on 1.

[@whitneydavis1344]

Man Greg should have been on this to UnFuck Tanner, Taylor and Sevan did a great job, but man I would have loved listening to Greg talk to this dude.

[@clairesanders1456]

I’m 13 mins in and I just can’t stand to listen to much more lol

[@j.hartle6709]

Tanner gave no arguments, he just kept saying getting stronger is better

[@koreyhall3026]

I put a video out explaining how CrossFit sucks, I’m not saying CrossFit sucks.

[@BernhardKohli]

Tanner: "doing 5x5 is more efficient to get up your 1rm" - yeah but the average person gets a lot more benefits (including! increasing their 1RM back squat) from doing eg Cindy

[@JacksonHenkle-ez8ve]

Hard to watch Taylor dumb down his argument and Tanner still not get it🤦‍♂️

[@Collinscottpowell]

I did CrossFit while I listened to this.

[@koreyhall3026]

I do CrossFit everyday, I also weigh 165 and bench 370

[@BernhardKohli]

Seems like Tanner just doesn't like the word "random" - fair point. In practice, none of the big programs (including CAP!) are random. Varied is perhaps the better word. And whether it is Misfits, TTT, PRVN, Sentinel or HWPO, they all drive results in terms of GPP. "Bro" should get a wildcard to the Games and see how far strength alone gets him. 😁

[@GirlsLiftBro]

Bro.

[@denniscookecscs]

This argument really boils down to the CF pyramid. Should strength or METCON be the base of the pyramid (after nutrition)? CF says the broader the METCON base, the higher the pyramid can rise. Other’s like Tanner would say that a greater Strength base is a superior foundation. The other side of the argument boils down to training temperament. CrossFitters love the thrill of something new day to day (don’t kid yourself and say this isn’t true). While others love to see structured progressions, e.g. my squat going up every Monday. At the end of the day it really might just come down to personality. Do you love surprise and spontaneity? Or do you love structure and repeatability? ADHD vs Autsim? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Where do you land on the spectrum? 😂

[@oliviashafer2229]

So since I read this comment like 15:00 in, do I need to watch the rest of this?

[@denniscookecscs]

@@oliviashafer2229 I still haven't finished either 😂. It's just an age old argument among coaches.

[@lifeaccelerator]

Tanner can't make any kind of logical argument and I hope he isn't training anyone. You can do really low rep training like a Wendler 5-3-1 and get really strong and build almost no muscle. Hypertrophy training grows muscle and not strength by comparison to power lifting. If you want to build the most amount of muscle it is body building and drugs. If you want to be healthy, get strong, look good, and be able to play sports without being injured then it is CrossFit. The stronger crossfitter is only going to be better at strength components of crossfit and not the skills. Gymnasts are the most jacked athletes in the Olympics with mostly body weight training. They might not be super strong in power lifts but Tanner is confusing muscle and strength. Two different things.

[@larryyoung2743]

There is carry over but if reps build strength as fast as load, marathon runners would be squat wizards it is what it is

[@danielarnson8708]

So many thoughts. First, football all through high school and strength trained for it. Got stronger. Never faster or fitter, and I NEVER missed a workout. Post high school, the only thing I knew to do was strength train for working out, so that’s what I did. I found CrossFit in 2012 and joined my first affiliate in 2015 and haven’t stopped since. I am in far better condition, and leaps and bounds stronger than I ever have been in my life. Tanner and Mark are just flat wrong. Also, anytime I hear “I was an elite CrossFit athlete” it usually means they are some jaded semi finalist who never made it to the big show and so instead of owning that they just aren’t good enough they decide to crap on the methodology. You see it even in games athletes who never make it to the top 5. See Marcus Filly. It also seems that tanner is incapable of saying bro or dude every 3 words and can’t help but look manic with eyes popping out of his head.

[@Unknownunknowable]

Your organs are the king of longevity (not muscles) and being “fit” properly fit (CrossFit) is intentional to create the best expression of biological fitness.

[@seanm3933]

Sorry Tanner. On the whole you are wrong. Sure getting strong is important, sure there is a tried and true way to get stronger doing 5x5's or whatever but getting stronger is only 1 small component of being healthy. Who would you argue is more healthy Jim Wendler at his peak or Lance Armstrong? Jim said himself he was not healthy. If he was walking up 3 flights of stairs he would have to take 5 breaks to keep from dying but he could squat 800lbs. It's dumb or ignorant to argue against the fact that Crossfit will greatly improve your health (including making you stronger). Life is constantly varied, so if you train that way you will overall be a better human than if you pigeonhole yourself into strength only training, or endurance only, or aesthetics only, etc.

[@jeremyeatworld807]

32:25 That's very clear Tanner.

[@XRP_NP]

It's called hypertrophy, Tanner! That's how.

[@jeremyeatworld807]

1:14:19 So we disavow the entire methodology because of a few bad gyms?

[@siouxieh1]

Tanner could literally argue with himself for hours. Doing proper programmed CrossFit makes you stronger dude! His only argument is that bad CrossFit programming is no good. Duh! So is bad weight lifting programming is also no good. He described the best way to get fit several times that is actually well programmed Crossfit. Just open your eyes and you’ll suddenly have Epiphany.

[@MikeDee013]

Tanner makes some good points, but CrossFit is literally about functional fitness, which is about preparing you for everyday movements. Taylor made an excellent argument. My god, how many times can Tanner say bro…

[@trevorjohnsondesign3530]

Dude told me to watch this before I judge him on his instagram post opinion on CrossFit. Did not help his case AT ALL.

[@ann5028]

Just waiting for Hillers response 🦇🦇🦇🦇🫡

[@jamesbilsbury9443]

It's already up.

[@ann5028]

@@jamesbilsbury9443 I watched it twice just now. how is he this fast!?

[@pisceanpaul]

There's nothing worse than an unstructured debate. I think fundamentally improving strength comes from progressive overload. I think fundamentally Crossfit defines fitness through varied high-intensity functional movement. The two aren't diametrically opposed, but they are drastically different concepts on training. If the goal is to ultimately gain strength the best way possible, strength training should be the focus to get the best improvement. If the goal is having a well-versed fitness level, Crossfit is a better methodology to follow. I could be wrong, but I think Zack Telander would agree with Tanner. But I don't even know strength training vs Crossfit was the original argument. Wasn't the original argument between modalities of training? Training for improvement depends what you're trying to improve, so specialization is more important than randomized workouts. Again, this is an unstructured debate.

[@mmeier35]

Tanner is right in saying CrossFit isn’t the ideal way to get strong as shit but that isn’t the point of it Take a powerlifter and a CrossFit regular and have them perform a general fitness test i.e mile, pushups, sprint, swim, bike ride, you name the activity.. CrossFit regular will likely win 80-90% of those tests…

[@mjcavs4life22]

The sport argument is atrocious my lord. Getting stronger helps everything? Not true at all. Strength past a certain point can be detrimental to a sport athlete. Strength is an expression. Strength is not only force against an external object. Sport specificity is completely different than what these guys are saying.

[@hipvamore]

Tanner seems pretty cool I like him. Props to him for doing it.

[@codymansell]

Dude bro, bro dude, I promise.

[@Luke-Holdfast_Training]

Glad I’m not having a shot every time Tanner says “Brooooo” Tanner has no idea what he is talking about. Specificity matters and it’s not just about strength. Sevy is correct in saying a guy doing nothing but strength training starts wrestling or BJJ is going to get injured quicker.

[@bananaman2002]

I'm in the minority but I think tanner held his own and I don't feel any differently about the guy. Still like him.

[@kevindoyle4077]

I kinda agreed with Tanner's take on using external load to get a stronger squat, however, he totally lost me when he claimed getting a stronger 1 rm squat would make you better at wall balls, I bet Rippitoe would do shit at Karen & he probably squats triple what I can

[@hardlylast]

CrossFit made me strong but my family called me gay

[@BuiltonGODSrock]

Please please do this debate with Mind Pump Sal. He would destroy Taylor. Crossfit is only BETTER if u want to be good at cf. However, if u dont want to be skinny fat u should lift for strength and do conditioning separately to maximize strength and not get injured. 95% of CROSSFITTERS look terrible. I went to a cf gym for the last 8 years now. Most members are in pain, can barely move, weak af, and are skinny fat. If u say “bodybuilders” or focusing on strength makes u lack mobility u have to understand its not the weights but the range of motion said person uses and if they do mobility work. Look at the number of ex crossfitters that jack their hormones up using cf. Talk to Camille Leblanc. That cortisol dump when ur a high stress ceo wrecks havoc on u. If u want to get people off medication getting in a calorie deficit while lifting for maximal strength will do that EVEN IF they did 0 cardio outside of walking. You dont need to do cardio to prevent or get rid of chronic disease! I could go on and on but looking at the thumbnail and I see Tanner is more jacked 😅

[@lynnnjerik]

Muscle training helps with balance?! What did I just hear. And how about the bodybuilders that can’t hike without dying a 100 times that’s not fitness/health in my book

[@josiahenns8370]

As soon as he said “I personally avoid politics”, he lost the debate..

[@studiotranphoto]

I don’t think anything anyone says to this guy Tanner will change is mind on his single minded mindset of “getting stronger”

[@koreyhall3026]

You want to look like Rich or Mark? Argument over.

[@oanadevito919]

This 🫠👌🏻

[@whitneydavis1344]

So you’re saying Brian Saw can move as well as a wrestler, like what the hell that makes no damn sense.

[@druborchers7750]

Here is something that defeats tanner - go back to Eddie Hall prior to winning worlds strongest man. He was one the strongest humans alive but on deaths door due to his weight on his shorter frame than a Brian Shaw or Thor. So he is the argument that destroys Tanner across all arguments. Eddie would out lift me but I’ll beat him in a sprint, mid and endurance race any day.

[@NicRoodman]

Tanner was just going around in circles here...

[@Unknownunknowable]

Tanner lost me the moment when he said “I hear that but”….. my friend has no muscle mass and can get out of a chair very easily and quickly as they are light. His logic is flawed. Strength is good but it’s not the king of health and fitness.

[@crossfitbohica1644]

This really wasnt conveyed super well by taylor and sevan. But then were right

[@RxBanditFit]

Was this an episode of Kill Taylor? because I don't thing tanner won the money

[@NiklasKnokgaard]

Tanner: bro…

[@derekbrinkmann2282]

I cringe every time Tanner starts a sentence with "Broooo". This guy is borderline impossible to listen to.

[@jamescollinge9082]

I have a simple question for everyone that disagrees with Tanner. Why do some elite sportsmen take steroids?

[@travisjones22]

Because their sport has a strength bias (football, powerlifting, etc) where increased muscle mass will increase sport-specific performance. You won’t see a middle distance runner taking “steroids” because that muscle mass would take away from their performance.

[@jamescollinge9082]

@@travisjones22 Thats why i said "some".

[@caitlingold4325]

This whole thing is dribble, they both want the same thing for people which is to be healthier versions of themselves. Also Hiller’s ego loves when people talk about him.

[@nursannie]

“Bro” , hopefully this is the last time we have to listen to this guy.

[@amandadoyle6866]

He has crazy eyes