2 stroke v 4 stroke debate revisited! Sherco 300SE v 300SEF ︱Cross Training Enduro

www.crosstrainingenduro.com A Sherco 300SE v 300SEF comparison to revisit the old two-stroke versus four-stroke debate! There have been plenty of arguments and discussions over the years. The more narrow-minded riders will claim one is way better. And remember this is not a Sherco 300SE v 300SEF review as such. So it was a great opportunity to compare it to the Sherco 300SE two-stroke and see if there was much difference. A quick bit of history. Until around the year 2000 there was a big difference. Four-strokes were generally seen as the choice for dual-sport or beginner dirt riders. Our dirt riding tips are great for developing your hard enduro skills. They were heavy and underpowered. But the four-strokes were more reliable and had a very linear power delivery. The two-strokes? Try our training vids for working on your extreme enduro techniques. But of course any experienced sensible rider knows it just depends on what sort of riding you do. A few months ago we had a chance to ride the Sherco 300SEF. It was already a quite powerful four-stroke but in 2024 it had a pile of mods to get even more power across the rev range. If you want extreme enduro training see our playlists of enduro skills to learn. If you are enduro riding get into our enduro training vids.Into enduro and dirt bikes? Check out our dirt bike videos. The Sherco 300SE and 300SEF differences are much less. The current four-stroke enduro motorbikes are only a bit heavier and have far more horsepower in the past 25 years. Need hard enduro training? Work through our video lists. The choice of racers and experienced riders due to their light weight and plenty of horsepower. But those vicious powerbands were terrible for general off-road riding until power valves and other mods made the power delivery more linear. Today? Hard enduro techniques are covered in our training vids. Maximum horsepower has barely changes for the two-strokes but the power is far more linear. They rarely foul plugs. And they tend to need far less top-end and bottom-end rebuilds. And this is why the four-strokes can be much easier to ride in the hands of your everyday dirt muppet! Grunt? There are still differences though. It's easy to focus too much on interpreting dyno charts, but lets compare Sherco's 300 models. The two-stroke clearly puts out more maximum horsepower. And while the power delivery is linear, it occurs over a much narrower rev range. In contrast, the four-stroke is producing its power over a much broader rev range. It's easy to be seduced by the maximum power figures and assume the two-stroke is best. Extreme enduro training vids are our focus. The two-stroke is clear winner at low revs and of course this is why the two-stroke 300s are the choice for hard enduro. But that fast response at low revs can actually cause problems for less experienced riders. Okay. Lets forget the dyno chart and go for real life experiences. In my 60s I find the hard enduro rides are really beating me up too much and I'm trying to decide whether to just get back into more 'normal' enduro riding. If so, a little four-stroke could be tempting. But I would definitely have to know the hard enduro stuff was over. See our full review of the Sherco 300SEF here. What has been your experience with two-strokes and four-strokes? Any preferences? The first thing we noticed? It's also because four-strokes only fire half as often so they are much more likely to stall. Have you recently made the changes? I'm keen to hear your stories! We did slowly adapt, but generally four-strokes are not a lot of fun in hard terrain - unless you are a wizard when it comes to clutch slipping! It certainly makes you learn how to use that clutch well! On more open tracks? A very different story.Acceleration? Firing only half as often, the rear wheel tends to dig in instead of spin so it felt every bit as fast as the two-stroke under acceleration. In fact we did an impromptu drag race on a dirt road and the two-stroke dropped way behind because it was wheelspinning way too much. A possible downside? The four-stroke felt more tiring to ride on the open tracks though. Like many fuel-injected engines, the 300 four-stroke throttle response feels quite snappy. And then the moment you close the throttle, the engine brake kicks in. We found this stop-go tendency quite tiring, but then we have only ridden two-strokes for years now. So perhaps it's just a matter of adapting. Engine brake can definitely be an advantage for some aspects of enduro riding. The four-stroke engines are relatively top-heavy due to those complicated top ends, but it was very hard to pick much difference - at least with the 300cc. We have ridden these tracks on 450 and 500 four-strokes and certainly noticed the weight then. Could I see myself changing back to a four-stroke after years of smoking? Maybe. The Sherco 300SEF was a bundle of fun on the open tracks.
#crosstrainingenduro #enduro #hardenduro #extremeenduro

[@terrywest5735]

I have never heard or read a better comparison of motorcycles! Thorough, complete, fair, and honest. Thank you sir!

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Our pleasure!

[@perpelle]

I'm just used to KTM but I've had 350 4-stroke and 300 2-stroke. The biggest difference is the low down grunt on the 2-stroke and WAY harder to stall in technical driving. It's so much easier to keep traction on a 2-stroke (in technical terrain). 4-strokes are probably better on faster tracks as we see in pro competitions.

[@brianlafollette7530]

Hard work and having to think through it keeps your brain active

[@Mark-mq1cc]

I have gone back and forth but my four strokes require much more clutch work to avoid the cough and die when I am on a off camber with my short legs flailing about. I now have a KTM 300 with the lightest clutch pull ever and almost never dies- I love it.

[@criticalmass181]

Can of worms opened...... I'm no pro, that's for sure. I'm old, though. That has to count for something, I guess? I've ridden two strokes, four strokes, road, enduro, trail...and MX. I guess it's about power to the ground, essentially. These days? I'm pretty happy to get every revolution onto the dirt' without too much fuss. I'll leave the hairy stuff to the young people. I'll go the KTM EXC-F 500.... It's pretty mellow, and a bit scary, if you want it to be. Best of all worlds. (Once upon a time, i'd have defended a YZ490 as the ONLY bike to own.) How times change, as you get older...insert wiser. Great video. It makes you think.

[@MegaHannaz]

You sound just like me! I had an 86 YZ490 that I used to trail ride and swear that it was great - I didn't care that I had to carry 2 x spare spark plugs with me for when it used to foul them in the tight, technical stuff and I would have to kick it for 30min! 🤣 Then I test rode a 2001 KTM 520 EXC and I was hooked! I couldn't believe how versatile it was compared to the MXer and that you could putt around on it like an XR250 or open it up and keep up with the MX bikes. The game changer for me was the button start though... 20 odd years later and I still have KTM 4 strokes: a 2007 525 EXC and now a 2017 450 EXC. I have recently ridden a 2023 KTM 250 EXC on a motorbike tour in Bali and whilst I found it fun, I just couldn't get used to the power delivery, clutch work required and the lack of engine braking. I must be too conditioned to 4 strokes these days!

[@Antonymous01]

I’m lucky enough to have both… and love both!

[@davidfindlay5432]

I'm personally glad we get a choice! It wasn't that long ago the 2 strokes were "doomed", but now, once you work out what/how you REALLY ride, you've a great selection of brands and sizes to choose from. I'm 63, and "hard" enduro riding lost its appeal sometime ago, it's just annoying being stiff and sore for 3 days afterwards. Having said that, a smaller 2 stroke [ Beta X-trainer maybe ] to complement my EXC500 is in the works.

[@rickayres9049]

Hey Brother, I’m hearing you. I’ve got pretty much what you are looking at. A Beta 390RRS which is a open trail weapon and can sit on highway speeds to link trail sections if necessary - and a Beta X Trainer, which I have to say is my go to bike. It doesn’t have the top speed or the balls of the 390 but I can ride more techo terrain with the X Trainer. I can climb and descend better on it. It’s about 8 or 9 KGs lighter than the 390 and has a slightly smaller frame and lower seat height- more manageable for this 61 year old 😊

[@KTMsoldier1988]

2 stroke vs 4 stroke is old news....electric is my new mortal enemy!

[@Carsonktm420]

Still smoking

[@airindiana]

Same, bloody hate the sound of them 😂 (or lack of ), weeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[@maverick2242]

💯

[@StarsWithScars]

I embrace every kind of motor/engine. The sound lags on E-motor and the short batterylife but the power and acceleration is awsome

[@rickayres9049]

@@StarsWithScarsIf I think I.m gonna ride further than a tank of juice on my petrol powered bike, I’ll carry a tiny 2 litre container with me to get me out of a pickle. I’ve scoped out the E motorbikes (I am open to discussion and opinions), but their range and the logistics of carrying an extra battery etc always leads me to the petrol powered options 👌😊

[@PNWEnduro]

The 300SEF is actually a few pounds lighter than the 300SE. I'm lucky to have both 2T and 4T so I just pick the bike that best suites the terrain I'm riding that day.

[@AboutaMileAdventures]

I love your channel, I have the 24 250 RX from Honda, After coming from ktms 350/300s I love it, but during the really rocky/hilly stuff i wish it was a 2stroke then, I'm hoping a flywheel weight and a reflash will fix that, the engine breaking is to strong.

[@2m7b5]

Yeah, my Beta 350rr is only 10 pounds heavier than Beta's 250 and 300 2-strokes. The argument that 4Ts are too heavy just doesn't make sense anymore.

[@TylerN737s]

Wet weight for a 24 KTM 300XC-W & a 24 YZ250FX are the same at 245lbs on a scale. I need to grab both and lay them on their sides on scales, see how much difference in weight is above & below the center line of the bike. Would be fun to do a test on gyroscopic forces with the engines spinning and measuring the force required to tilt the bike.

[@jasonjackson1259]

To me, it’s less about 2t vs 4t, more about carb vs fi. I never really liked the snappy, super quick precise power of fi. To me, a traditional 2t on a part throttle swells and surges as the pipe and pv come on. You can hit maximum revs on a part throttle if you give it time to catch up. Big fourstrokes do it too to a certain extent. But fuel injection, particularly on fourstrokes, doesn’t do this. I find that the hardest thing to adjust to with modern efi 4t’s is the linearity of the throttle input. The power doesn’t swell or build, if you’re not using 100% of the throttle range, you dont seem to get 100% range of rpm. I’m talking rubbish, from a hobbyists perspective really, but I’d sum up by saying, in my experience; Fuel injected bikes, the throttle is a request for rpm, and the mapping works out how to do it. Carb’d bikes, the throttle is a request for power, and the engine mechanically just gets on with it.

[@cathy2128]

I could never decide, so I have both. 300 husky and 350 kato

[@bushybill7189]

Horses for courses. Beta 300 for the slow and tight stuff, Beta 480 for the more open and fast stuff. Life is good.

[@Turtle11086]

I just spent the weekend riding a 30km loop of mixed enduro riding. I took my 06 CRF450 and 94 XR600, I was just happy to make it through 2 days of riding. I had a chance to ride my brothers new 24 TE300pro and a friends 22 Sherco 500. I could definetly get use to the 300 but of all the bikes I found the CRF the best in the river sand. If I had to buy today id probably go with a FE501 because of dealer support but that aside id probably go with the Sherco 500. I feel the KYB suspension set firmly with the 4 stroke motor just suits my riding style most closly as an overweight, novice thats like to do a bit of everything.

[@Motumatai3]

Off road on 4 strokes for 35 years, changed to 2 stroke a decade ago and never going back. They are simply too much fun. On road I guess a 4 stroke wins...but I did love my 2 stroke triples of the 1970's!

[@airindiana]

I started on a 2T a year ago and switched to a thumper after hearing all the aura about 2s and hearing all the negs about thumpers being this and that I didn’t know any different, struggling away on a small bore 2T, believing all you read on the internet about 150s being great beginner bikes (spoiler alert, not entirely true). I secretly always hankered after 4 strokes any time ome went past at an enduro as they sounded simply beefier to my ears but on I plodded. After one play day getting stuck, covered in crap and no energy I tried a mates 4 stoke, I was sold and got my own, an FE250. Oh boy, what a change. It’s a dream on hills compared to my TE150 which is immensely unforgiving. I can ride it for far longer without getting knackered. Love it. Ive improved several fold over a similar time frame on the new bike. Immense fun little bike. I actually dare I say enjoy it more overall than the 150 as I simply can do more on it and if I’m on a race with hills I now stand a chance of completing a lap lol. Everything bar hard enduro, rocks faces etc it does well, even single track. the 250F goes over small logs fine which is my limit. I don’t personally like true hard enduro, no interest for the foreseeable in battling up rocks and boulders. Prefer the faster cross country, hills and woods. If I did venture into hard enduro I’ll look at a 300 but I’m actually not too keen to rush back to 2 stokes to be fair, love the feeling of a thumper now, the engine stability on fast bits especially and also the sound I like 😂 (my 150 sounded a little too like screaming Jesus mopeds we used to have as teenagers here in the uk, much as I thought the sound was quite cute I’m enjoying the change at least for now, even if it’s for something that sounds like a transam and a lawnmower had a kid after a heavy night of booze and drugs)

[@Branhamjeffd]

I’ve gone back and forth a few times now, I am again on a 250 2t. My last thumper was a WR450, I loved the bike and 87% of the time it was just the tool I needed, however it just couldn’t cut it in the really technical stuff. Like Barry said, I’ll be on a smoker until I know for sure I’m done with the “hard” enduro.

[@johnrenehan7406]

Correction , some of the smaller 250 cc for strokes are quite good and tend not to stall easily right down low . 250 F bikes - they are the best for tight bush & technical trails

[@easternyellowjacket276]

When I got my four stroke 450 it would flame out in slower terrain that wasn't even close to that brutal stuff you showed in the video. Put a Rekluse in it and voila, it has maybe flamed out once or twice in the past four years. As far as I'm concerned, game changer.

[@James-nc2ed]

I started riding 4 years ago on 4 strokes. Recently got a 300 2 stroke. Love them both. 4t is now the go far and go fast bike. 300 is the all round trail bike.

[@819jt]

I just rode with some guys in Canada w/ the Ontario Federation of Trail Riders (OFTR) on a rough, wet enduro loop. I brought my 2015 FE501. My bike was really hot the whole time, plus there was a lot of stop & go. I fried my Li battery. It made me remember that if I would've sucked water due to a tip-over, I wld have been done (deep in the woods, between a mud-bog and a steep rocky hill-climb kind of done). That was 2-stroke country over there (Muskoka, Ont.). 🤔

[@painsrides3616]

I "accidently" sold my KTM 250XCw and went to a Suzuki DRz400s thinking at my age it was time to switch to more dual-sport oriented riding. My buds were having none of it ... and dragged me back into our regular mixed enduro riding. I'm not in a position to sell(nor do I want to) and/or purchase another 2storke. What I did was setup the DRz to be as "enduro capable" as I could reasonably make it. We're not racers but the terrain here in New England, USA is rugged... The setup DRz does well and hangs with 2T bike in most situations. My DRz's 3x3 modded engine is a gem of tractable power along with very decent, correctly sprung suspension, makes of a great trail bike...But its low point is slow technical terrain, if I'm not on it perfectly it will flame out and then there's the general weight of the bike. I recently got back form a trip to Moab, UT where I rode a 24 GasGas EC300 for 3 full days in the most awesome off-road terrain in the world😎 The big 2T was light and powerful and did great, but honestly I wasn't so blown away by it that I had to get back home buy one no matter what to replace the DRz.

[@rorypassmore]

In my opinion 500cc is the best 4t for technical riding, It's the closest you can get to a 300 2t. My KTM 525 is heavy but with 12/50 sprockets it actually lugs extremely well in technical terrain. I prefer my 300XC though.

[@adambatchelder4121]

The gap is closing, however I still prefer good low end and simplicity so I'll be buying the most modern wide ratio kick start possible no linkige 2 stroke I can

[@thefluffy880]

Love your stuff. Keep it up, please.

[@show-me-the-details]

As a video suggestion, compare the new sherco to an old school 4 stroke that isn't prone to stalling such as an xr250, compare it in the tight technical as wouldn't be a fair comparison on fast flowing

[@JohnVanHolt]

I feel the 2 strokes, I have a 300 xcw, are easier and much more fun to ride in the slow and difficult terrain. In the higher speed desert trails, I feel like 4 strokes handle better. Real or not, it seems the front wheel on 4s has better bite/control.

[@bradenriley9066]

I have a 21 YZ250FX and a 23 YZ250X. Super fast flow, sandy terrain, high speed I prefer my 250FX. Tight, super rocky, tacky dirt I prefer the YZ250X.

[@dylanhedges5634]

I went from an 07 2t 300 to an 2016 4t 250 Missed the fun, playful ness of the 2stroke I sold the 4t after 6months and went back to smokers The four stroke felt heavier even though it weighs the same. Stalls out everywhere. Traction was good and was fun on moto X tracks but for trails and enduro I'll stick to 2strokes.

[@ARDrummer]

Great upload...always nicely done!

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Thanks!

[@gasdive]

I found the 4 stroke engine braking was destabilising the bike under brakes and down hills. In the end I just pulled the clutch down hills and under brakes, but it was never really satisfactory. I really just find two strokes much easier to ride.

[@ThreePuttz]

I started out with a TE150 and after riding a 4 stoke on the trails I added a 250 XCF to the stable. In the end, it’s best the have both!

[@airindiana]

Exact same. Had a TE150 then got an FE250. I ride the FE far more and to be honest enjoy it more. 150 is fun for playing on but it annoys me on hills. I’d like to keep both but can’t afford to, FE wins as I get more seat time on it.

[@destryrobinson3708]

❤I rode a 200 2stroke for about half of my riding career on harder trails. It was lighter but not up to my needs for power. I switched to a 530 4 stroke and loved the brutal power it produced produced, however it demanded more respect, it can get you in over your head real quick. I have been on single and 2 track trails plenty with it and the bike is better on more open terrain because it gets hot in slower stuff. I've installed a fan kit and it helps but if the battery gets a bit low, from the fan running it can become difficult to start. Recently I've been touring around on log roads and staying mostly on 2 track or 4wd trails. and a little street.

[@JagLite]

I think it helps a lot to crank the idle speed up a good bit on a four stroke when riding more challenging stuff like shown in the video and hill climbs where you want to reduce stalling as much as possible. Easy to do with a carb idle adjustment but I don't know about FI bikes since I don't have any. A high idle also reduces that instant engine braking feel. But I don't enjoy the slow technical riding any more. It became much less fun when I hit 50 and no fun at all at 60. Now at 70 I avoid it completely and ride terrain I enjoy. Not all easy trails, just not crawling speed technical stuff. I want to ride, not muscle my bike at less than walking speed.

[@christobey4198]

Agreed they need to bump up the idle on 4T. I very rarely have stalling issues on my KTM 350XCF in the tight gnarly stuff with the idle turned up a bit. Yes the EFI 4 strokes do have an idle adjustment that's a big red knob and very easy to get to.

[@richardhammond2633]

I've only had one decent test ride on an injected 300 2 stroke and was super impressed. However my 21 fe 350 geared down and with the ecu flashed is difficult to stall. Unless you are doing real hard enduro the 4 stroke wins. Apparently the 250cc enduro 4 strokes tend to be less prone to stalling than the larger capacities.

[@theridingcouple2909]

Interesting. I cut my teeth riding gnarly singletrack on an sef300 and was getting quite confident. Sold it and 2 years in with a 300 2t and my riding still looks like your experience with the 4t - stalling everywhere. Getting better but man i had to learn to ride all over again.

[@lgraff2301]

I have a yz250fx and the G2 has helped a lot. But....I find how much riding time is the biggest difference. Less saddle time=more stalling. I ride more and the problem goes away. Not totally, but 80% better. I agree with the feeling of being beat up on it though. But I relate that more to my shitty technique and getting my front suspension more dialed in. I do love the bike but if I had the budget for a 300 2 stroke I would have both.

[@nickb3968]

In my case, my 4 stroke flaming out on occasion saved me...whereas my 250 two stroke would send me places I didn't want to go instead of flaming out....lol, but I'm not a great rider.

[@Mkruzer]

Heavy flywheel changes the game with stalling and too much snap. For reduced engine braking... Kiefer free feeling is excellent.

[@ronaldbronson1285]

Growing up I mostly rode two strokes. Now I dual sport a 04 ktm 525 and take it through single track and medium/hard enduro type trails occasionally. I've found thay keeping the throttle slightly open in tight single track, and when decelerating, instead of completely closing the throttle, helps me to keep traction, ride smoother, and lessen stalling. A side note, my two riding buddies take their xr650L and xr650R through trails that are hardly walkable. The fastest in our group rides the 650L.

[@sethjeffreys3055]

I'll say this wr400 I owned was a great engine and I learned to just hold the 4t WFO and it will be fine thru hard shit but my 17 300xc is nice in the hard slow tec .

[@kennyd333333333]

Wow your uphill pov in the ruts made it look steep on my tv!Very cool

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Thanks 👍

[@-CHeWy-]

I was looking at the 300SEF. Currently have a WR450F. Want something a little more easy to ride. Muscling 125kg through tight single track and having to just use 3rd gear so the thing doesnt send you into a tree is a bit boring. I wanna ride more. Never owned a 2 stroke and im a bit nervous to go get on one then find i dont like it. Was looking at the 300SEF Sherco, but all the ones for sale have rebuilds at 2000km. WR450F will do 40,000km before ya need to.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Rebuilds at 2000km? Were they all used for racing? 🤔 I'm not aware of any premature wear issues. The WR250F is a rock solid bike if you had concerns about regular rebuilds.... and personally I like the SSS suspension a lot more than the Sherco which isn't as plush (but good for aggressive and/or heavy riders).

[@monsuralikhan6515]

Make a video about top 10 dirt bike dualsport enduro bikes with most kmpl

[@justinlloyd9342]

I’ve had both and prefer the 2 stroke cause I’m more of a technical woods rider but riding my little girl on the gas tank around a field I like the 4 stroke lol

[@h276wah7]

I started on 2t's, went to 4t's and found my place. Had a 2 stroke on return to enduro (2 stroke trials for the duration). I was lying to myself, 4 stroke enduro all the way.

[@airindiana]

Same here 😁, can’t see myself rushing back anytime soon to 2s

[@TheKitchenTechnician]

Easiest way to solve this dilemma? One of each. Big four stroke for open road Baja style riding and the two stroke for gnarly, tight, single track woods work. Works for me.

[@Montana_Motorized]

Completely agree with you! The slower the terrain you ride, the better the two stroke (at least a 250/300 off road 2T). The faster, the better the 4 stroke. I have a 250 2T and 450 4T. The 450 is great for the MX track or high speed desert or dual sport type stuff. The 250 is great in the 1st and 2nd gear hard stuff. Either one is fine for your average 3rd gear single track type stuff. If I switched to 250/300/350F for single track, I would need a Rekluse as the four stroke stalling is infuriating. Have no interest in a Rekluse for my 2T though.

[@PennsylvaniaDualSport]

I’m keen to try the SEF 500 instead of the 300 when I retire my beta 300. I’m hoping the bottom end is similar

[@PEROTTIX]

Great video!! I tried the Sherco 2024 4 strokes and I hated the on off at slow speed. I loved the 2 strokes. Any rumors about sherco fuel injection on 2 strikes in 2025? In trial bikes they have it since 2 years I think

[@lionelcook8522]

Remember back in the day when stalling meant manhandling the bike to roll back down the hill to be able to kick start it back into life and try again.

[@aaronmcelhinney1436]

I agree. The 4 strokes are harder to ride in slow, technical single track riding.

[@dirklawyer9939]

Barry this is normal mid late 60's balderdash thought 😄of which I am consumed with lately! I have a super modified Honda 300L at this time that checks a lot of boxes but still is lacking some on difficult dual track. In 2022 I rode the Sherco 250 SEF and was quite blown away by it's two stroke characteristics in nimbleness and light feeling on the trail for a 4 stroke, that said, I would pick it over the 300 SEF BUT I only weight 165lbs so that's the Gold-i-locks bike for me. For us grey hairs the 2 stroke is always going to make trails easier for us as we progress in years, it will always be the bike you would find beside me on a Viking funeral pyre, which happens to be French at this time.

[@aidangillett5396]

Maybe its changed in later years as i've only ridden the 2012 but I feel you missed the most important aspect of the 300SEF - It just revs and revs and revs, and is so much fun doing it Aside from giggling like a school girl as you try and reach the limiter, I found you can carry a gear for a whole lot longer than any other dirt bike i've ridden. I quite like that it lacks a little bit of torque right off idle as it forces you get just that bit more aggressive and not slump down into a lazy groove like a 300-2T. Yet am quite surprised just how much power it has in the mid and top end. I'd have sworn its more than 40, never found it lacking and will definitely break traction Not a big fan of the smaller chassis on the sherco but I feel they nailed the engine, what an absolute beauty. Does not feel anything like other 4T's i've ridden and i'd describe it as a 4 stroke that identifies as a 2 stroke. Here's me having a bit of a play with the 2012. Gearing is stock 14/48 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJnHYolufrCiY7s

[@neonalon]

I like both. Curious how this Sherco compares to the well known 350 I also ride. I plan to work on some fueling mods to make mine stall even less, though it is already pretty good. Sadly the tractor torque of the older 4strokes is not available anymore.

[@sdrown212]

I luv my 250 two smoker .

[@richardlennon4148]

Ideally you need one of each.

[@colinbowman8816]

Heavier flywheel weights and clutch basket weights exist for 4 stroke bikes as well. I'd like to hear from some people who have tried them: did it make a difference in low rpm lugging?

[@Mkruzer]

Heavier flywheel make a HUGE difference.

[@colinbowman8816]

Nice! What bike & weight combo do you have experience with?

[@motobandits5338]

I have extra clutch weight on a 450 and allows for better lugging through slow tech riding, very rarely stall but still needs lots of clutch control,

[@Mkruzer]

@colinbowman8816 yz250fx and I added the stealthy offroad 7oz. I could lug uphills without stalling (within reason).

[@miro_s]

Ride a 350 4T and I love it. I’d now like to add a 300 2T for the full experience, and am considering whether to replace the 350 with a 500 for max variety.

[@8180634]

I've got a 500exc for the woods and 350sx for the track. The 500 is easily the most versatile bike I've ever owned, it's a blast off-road, can cruise on the road without revving to the moon and gets around a motocross track significantly better than you would expect for a non-MX bike. Compared to the 350, the 500 has a ton more torque down low but there's no benefit to revving it. I did like it a lot better in the very tight stuff after adding a slower throttle cam, to make it less lurchy right off idle. It has very linear power, almost electric. To compare the two, the 500 is more like a big block with tons of torque but no benefit to revving it, while the 350 is more like a little turbo 4 cylinder that does OK down low but really comes alive in the upper RPM.

[@miro_s]

@@8180634 thanks. Very interesting. I’ll think about your advice. As I said, I have no qualms with the 350, thinking of the 500 to differentiate more from a 300 2T that I’d use on more challenging single track. Unfortunately I never had the chance to try a 500, I expect it to be much similar to the 350 but more torquey and more versatile in applications, from tight single track to fast dirt roads and more suitable to multi day rides.

[@miro_s]

@@8180634 PS. When you say no benefit in revving do you mean is very linear? Or doesn’t rev high?

[@8180634]

@@miro_s very linear and it does not make more power in the top RPM range. But it definitely does not rev as high as the 350 either. Short shift and it pulls plenty hard, no shortage of power.

[@endur0id]

4 strokes heavier than 2 strokes is a thing of the past already. Well, maybe it's still true for Sherco, but my Honda CRF250RX weighs 108kgs ready to race with full tank, which is lighter than any existing european 2 strokes nowadays :) I switched quite recently (80hrs ago) to a 4t after riding for about 10 years on smokers. Main reason was I got really tired of bent pipes, mixing oil and smelling it, didn't want to be guinea pig for new fuel-injected 2strokes which are just doing their baby steps now (IMO) and still far away from being reliable, and also liked this new Honda, which is way more reliable, has cheaper parts and require less rebuilds. Very happy with it so far, I'm comparing it to my previous yz250 which I had for 4 years and it feels like crf has more torque and power everywhere in the range, has more bottom end, yet it can also be revved all the way up to 12k rpm as yz. I'm doing mostly hard enduro, slow technical stuff, and yes 4t is much more prone to stalling because it cannot run on super low revs like 2t can. So it is more demanding on having precise clutch control but once you have it, you can go everywhere you could go on a 2 stroke...

[@AboutaMileAdventures]

I love my 24 250RX, Check my channel to watch me beating the bike up pretty hard, i do tend to stall often, but i always feel like its my fault and not the bikes, it feels way lighter than my ktm 350 or even the ktm 300 i had. I use map 3 all the time, i tend to stall less with it and i think it has less engine breaking, the engine breaking gets tiring after a while of OFF/ON Throttle. I only wish i had a two stroke in the super hilly rocky tracks. I put a fan kit and radiator braces on it as well. Its my favorite bike ive had yet. A flywheel weight is in my future though.

[@endur0id]

@@AboutaMileAdventures I was stalling mine all the time when I just bought it, now I get used to be on a clutch all the time and it's way better. I also installed a Magura hydraulic clutch and it made a HUGE difference, this is number 1 upgrade I'd recommend for CRF. I was riding my yamaha yz for years with cable clutch and used to think hydraulic was way overrated, now I understand it was because yz's clutch cable was really well routed, almost straight line with no curves, it worked perfectly. But CRF's stock clutch cable has a horrible design, very curved and there is a tight metal elbow at the bottom, it has tons of friction and it's very hard to do small clutch adjustmets because of that. Hydraulic line improves clutch feel dramatically for CRF, the bike is just perfect now.

[@endur0id]

@@AboutaMileAdventures I'm riding map 2 btw almost all the time on tight slow terrain, it feels smoother, I'd say closer to 2t feel, the motor tends to slow down the rmps instead of just stalling under the load...

[@AboutaMileAdventures]

@@endur0id I’ll need to try map 2 more, I’ve tried it in the rain on hard backed slick clay, but I stalled out sometimes in 2nd and 3rd gear when map 3 I never did, but I was spinning the rear more in map 3

[@nickg2431]

I hope you dont mind me asking skipper.Do the AUS models have all the extra emissions junk on like in the usa.This does affect the running.I was wondering as it stalled a LOT at around 3.20.My old carb 525 exc stalls a lot less and correct me if im wrong but i remember you managed well on your old husaberg(carb) would love to hear any insights.Cheers from Greece.

[@AS-dc8tb]

I ride both equally and they're both great at what they do best. Why does it have to be one OR the other?

[@Paul-gu2lv]

Can anyone compare fuel range on the same size tank? It's really important as i go on full day rides.

[@EB-rj3ds]

Sono andato a provare un po’di cilindrate, e dopo la mia prima prova con un 250 4t, scesi dalla moto dicendo al mio socio: “è la moto perfetta per noi, ma non ha emozione”. Io sono restato fedele al 2t, lui mi ha ascoltato e ha preso il 4t. Bè che dire per i dilettanti come me va bene, offre buona trazione, il segreto sta nel non mollare l’accelleratore! 😮 Che dire per me ha quell’unica bellezza, il resto è terribile: motore che mura ovunque, effetto on/off, mi risulta una guida molto pesante. Ho risolto il problema dei troppi bassi del 300 2t abbassandomi di cilindrata: adoro i 200 e i 150! La prima volta che ho visto un vecchio conoscente che gli ho detto che avevo comprato un 300 2t mi fa, dovresti comprare un 125 e imparare, così ho fatto, ora devo imparare! Ahah Sempre video interessanti!

[@aky141]

Hey mate where did you find those dyno figures? As a dyno operator they seem incorrect

[@samhalaby9983]

where do you guys all ride, im sydney based and looking for some new open wide and single tracks

[@MPLSdunk]

all I really ride is single track, got a crf250rx. it's ok I make it work but it was my first dirt bike. I'm on the clutch all day which gets tiring with that cable clutch. I'm getting an xtrainer next. I like the bike but it's not where it shines.

[@martinharris8645]

Put a Rekluse in my 4 stroke and it’s a different machine altogether. Now it tractors up anything without stalling.

[@metlmuncher]

Good stuff.

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@alexharley9578]

после накатаюсь на ктм ехс 450, обязательно куплю ехс 300 или подобный 2т аппарат

[@mosca3289]

Nuance, baby.

[@FanYang-zs1yc]

Is there any way to get a motorcycle on a budget.

[@kenwolfe5697]

The sound of a small bore two stroke on the pipe. Case closed.

[@jamesal0]

little 4t's hate squirrel shit - 300 2t any day

[@user-oe8gy8dk8f]

The Se is a proper tasty looking machine, ❤️ blue bashplate

[@levro7367]

Are 4 strokes better for road riding

[@crosstrainingenduro]

Generally yes

[@nickb3968]

I took up trail riding later in life(mid 30's), starting with a four stroke 98' Husaberg 400FE which was magnificent in power and weight and suspension setup....then went to a two stroke 2000 Gas Gas 250 in my early 40's, which way too much bike for me and unforgiving in technical terrain when I was tired....I'm just not good enough to utilize that beasts power. I miss my old FE400...it was so tractable and plush....

[@bhalls100]

The 4 strokes have such loud exhaust, even stock. Its petty but the sound is what makes it a no for me.

[@OtisFlint]

I just use an FMF with a spark arrestor, sounds quieter but deeper than stock.

[@hubertkam7647]

dont most riders in enduro gp use 4 strokes?

[@MrRonronnj]

Get a 350 and exercise your left middle finger 🙂

[@mattman3495]

I found my 4-stroke much easier on hard technical stuff especially very steep technical stuff. I'm not a small guy 220 lbs and my 577 4-stroke had so much torque I could stop in the middle of a hill and start again. I couldn't do it on my two-stroke 250 or 500 especially in the deep sand. I found my two strokes were gas on the whole way and if you cut the throttle you usually got stuck and couldn't get going again, then it was back down the hill and try again. I'm a four-stroke guy now, unless you got Graham Jarvis skills you are probably better off with a 4-stroke.

[@airindiana]

I’ve posted above about my journey as a new rider and my experience of 2 strokes on hills was exactly as you described.

[@enduro-parts-aus]

Both are fit for purpose But we all know 2 strokes are better 😅

[@crosstrainingenduro]

😂👍

[@jootai]

2 stoke will always be more fun. But 4 stroke has lesser maintainance and is more for the average joe's. I bought a 450L a month ago and i love it, its got a few mods but that thing can do everything. It can ride on the road like a baby GS and flip on the dirt like a dirtbike. its a little heavy but its a machine that does everything.

[@vladt956]

For me 4 stroke is boring and more expensive to maintain

[@fatneck2008]

One of each, surely?!