Crown a Barrel by Hand or With a Lathe? How Close Does it Really Get? Custom Mauser Part 1

Crown a barrel by hand vs doing it on a lathe. Custom Mauser. How close can you get it by hand. I was able to get within 0.003-0.005" by doing it with hand files and sand paper. This was not the final crown at the end, but a clean up cut to see how much we needed to take off to clean up a hand cut crown on the rifle barrel.
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Let me know your thoughts!

[@taylorbokshowan5713]

I wish you would have shot it with the hand crown and again after the lathe for accuracy comparison

[@galennelson7397]

Thanks so much for this series. I'm a 4 Mauser guy, 3 of the 4 are partially sporterized (Mod 98 in 25-06, Turkish in 8mm, Mod 93 in 7mm, and Yugo in 8mm which i am going to leave original) so everything you do will help me in my efforts to make them all more accurate. I also have a short bed South Bend 10L on its way to my garage in about a month, so there again I'm learning from your videos and am very apreciative.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Sounds good. I've done a lot of Mauser but they are not as plentiful on the open market as they were even 5 years ago. I have several things left to do on this one but let me know if there is anything you wanted to see done. Thanks for your comment.

[@nitwit444]

My gunsmith sears by his 11 degree crown and I do also. So chuck it up again, put an 11 degree crown on it and compare the 3 targets! great video by the way.

[@marcogram1216]

I really like that "pawnshop Mauser". Great video.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks, that was a fun one for me.

[@jimmoser4146]

I would like to see you finish the Crown, maybe with an 11° Recessed Crown and then use the same loads and shoot another set of groups! I'd like to see if there's an improvement.

[@declanrocky5598]

instaBlaster.

[@timevers6735]

i thought this was your best video yet. I liked the music that was added and I'm also liking the sped up footage of disassembly. It may be of interest to you ; when I challenged myself to practice my file work, the best block I indicated was 3 thou over 6 inches. Another thing to keep in mind; set a level by the vice and frequently check your work for level and plumb. File work takes a lot of skill and concentration. You keep up the good work.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks! Much appreciated. I only spent about 15 or so minutes filing on this barrel. I've done more filing than I care to admit, but the problem with the end of a barrel like this is it is a little harder to keep the file consistently flat. I figured what I did was a fair representation of what the average person would be able to accomplish on their barrel. I'm sure with more time and care like you mentioned, you could get it closer, but that wasn't the point. Good tip though with the level. Thank you for you kind words!

[@TL1000S97]

Excellent video! Learnt something there. And BTW, very "soothing" music 👍

[@precisionmachineshed]

Awesome, thank you!

[@terrylambing4689]

I had a 7mm rem mag I bought it from a machinist, he had cut the barrel down and left it flat, which isn't a big deal the facing of muzzles are shaped in a few different ways, what he didn't do was redo the inside of the crown! I shot it at 100 yards after the first 3 shots the bullets walked right off the paper! After doing some research I found when inspecting the muzzle with a magnifier there were small nicks from the machining! I took a drill with a round ball and some valve lapping compound and run it into the muzzle after it became concentric looking I cleaned it up and went to the range, made some adjustments to the scope. The rifle was a tack driver from 100 out to 500 yards

[@precisionmachineshed]

There are several variations to an accurate rifle, the crown being one. When I built my F-class rifle I put a flat 90 degree crown on it and it shoots amazing. While I'm confident in my crowning abilities, at the time I wanted to eliminate any concentricity issues no matter how small. A flat crown is the easiest way to do that. That being said, no matter what style crown you have, if it is done wrong, accuracy can suffer. My most accurate hunting rifle has a crown like in the video but much much shallower recess. It holds 1/2 MOA out to 600 yards which is the longest I've shot with it.

[@waylonwilson7155]

I have a 30/06 I have acrack in the end of the barrel and wanted to know if you can help me with this I cut the barrel off from the crack and need to file and re crown and barrel the rifle

[@keithchambery6399]

Nice experiment. Very cool!

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks! Much appreciated.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Came out good. Good to see how the grouping is now.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks, I'm going to put an actual crown on it in the next video. Then I'll shoot it again. There will be several more mods to the rifle by the time I'm done.

[@heightaddict]

hi! enjoyed ur videos. i have a 3-1 lathe and im also an airgunner. hope to see more vids.

[@locknnload]

great job! I don't have a 5000.00 lathe so I just used a brass screw and a drill with lapping compound and it was enough to move about 10 thousands and new crown in five minutes!

[@j.sebring6136]

That's how I've done lots of crowns. Read about the technique in Clyde Baker's "Modern Gunsmithing" published in 1935, or so.

[@precisionmachineshed]

I've read that book cover to cover. While that will work for a standard rifle, to obtain peak accuracy, I don't do that method.

[@Mac-mu9cs]

.003" by hand indexing off the outer dia. Of the barrel is pretty darn good. i have done several "recrowns" with the hand kits especially on 22s with rusty muzzles.

[@johnt4060]

Beautiful gun!

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks!

[@gssmith1986]

I'm not a gunsmith. Your title indicated hand recrowning, but I expected you to do that with a crowning ream, not a file. I think if you used a hand crowning reamer, the results would have been as good as the lath.

[@precisionmachineshed]

I've used those hand crowning tools with mixed results. They can get chatter and give an undesired result. Best done on the lathe after it's been indicated.

[@cabochris100]

It doesn't matter, so long as the crown is good.

[@flawlessfoose]

I defintley like videos like this. Nice job on hand crown though! I just dinged my new 1700 dollar 1911 barrel, i gotta figure out how i want to fix it

[@panchovilla1486]

good video

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks!

[@terrylambing4689]

I agree I use gunsmithing lapping compound, I make up a dummy round, rub some lapping compound on the bullet then I lap the inside of the crown in a counter clockwise direction, as the rifling is usually right hand twist from chamber to muzzle,

[@precisionmachineshed]

I quit lapping the end of the bore, but I don't disagree with a light lapp to break the edge of the lands if you want.

[@terrylambing4689]

Never questioned your ability as a machinist, I myself worked for a machine shop as a service mechanic, I did electrical and mechanical repairs and spindle alignments on CNC's All I'm saying is the facing of the muzzle has no effect on the bullets accuracy, but the edge of the crown where the bullet exits the rifling has a big impact on its accuracy!

[@precisionmachineshed]

Yeah, I wasn't worried about it. I use to lapp the crowns to get rid of the preverbial "burr" at the end of the bore, but after doing a lot of them I found that if you have a really sharp bit and cut at the correct speed, you can basically eliminate that burr. In doing this, I cannot detect a burr and in my opinion if there is a microscopic burr, which I'm sure there is, it will get burnt off in the first several shots. I then started thinking that if you start lapping them by hand, it could result in an uneven lapp, which could throw concentricity off further than just burning the burr off a cut from a sharp bit on the lathe. Is it enough to matter ether way? Probably not, but my current method makes more sense to me. I don't knock people that decide to lapp, but that is the reasoning behind why I quit doing it.

[@terrylambing4689]

That's why I use a dummy round of the same caliber, you can't get it off center, unless you deliberately force it,

[@precisionmachineshed]

When I did do it, I used a 45 degree brass lap which historically has been a common practice. Dummy round sounds like it works great for your projects!

[@tripihammer853]

didn't you finish the "by hand" crowning. You did a fine job filling to within .003" but if you chamfered & lapped you can make it too close to measure. Only real way to tell is shoot after hand crowning & again after lathe crowning.

[@chenglo8999]

What bit did you use to cut with? Also, what was the rod u put inside barrel to align the barrel in the lathe? Rookie lathe owner here.

[@RippSnortin]

Nice lathe

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks. It was a bunch of work to make it like that.

[@thetriode]

That is awesome it's 1:8 twist. You should be able to get some really nice bullets for that in say the 105-107gr range if you reload. Not that it seems to shoot horrible anyways. How does the throat look, setting the barrel back may be an interesting venture.

[@precisionmachineshed]

I ended up selling it. I think it shot the 105 A-max's fairly well in the end. I can't remember what the throat looked like.

[@Johnny-jr2lq]

Great video I do have a question in regards to doing a crown buy hand Brownells sells a few tools to do a crown by hand so my question is if you have the tools will that make is any better

[@precisionmachineshed]

They turn out a decent crown. Much better than trying to do it by hand. I still prefer a lathe for the best possible crown.

[@CAVEMANTACKLE]

Hi there love the channel can i ask can you leave the action on the barrel when your machining a thread on the barrel say for a muzzle brake thank you very much

[@precisionmachineshed]

If you can fit it through the headstock then yes, you can do it that way.

[@semitones]

If you think about it, you've done excellent considering you were using the straight edge off the outside of the barrel and on the lathe you were use the actual bore.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Yeah it was interesting for myself to see how close it was. This was the first time I have ever tried to do one by hand. Have done to many to count on a lathe.

[@jacobridgedell2096]

Nice video, I thought the music was a good idea. Was hoping to see how it shot after the crown. How did it do?

[@precisionmachineshed]

I'm going to do a recessed hunting crown on it, that will be the next video! Thanks!

[@MrBoo1963]

How did it shoot afterward?

[@StrongholdArmory]

I didn't mind the music when it was softer. Also, great idea on that outboard spider. I made mine to slip over the spindle instead of inside it. It's a pain because I have to remove the little spindle cover on the outboard end in order to install it and remove it. Got any tips or things that you run into when utilizing the in-spindle spider?

[@precisionmachineshed]

I made it to be a pretty tight fit and just enough clearance to get it in there. It's made out of aluminum. Ideally it would clamped onto the spindle, but I find that once it's in place and the chuck clamps down on the barrel, it will not move. I have a hard time getting it to spin by itself. being that my lathe is the older model, a year before they switched to the dual tumbler gearbox, I didn't want to remove the cover ether every time I wanted to take this on or off. I also use my collet set-up quite a bit so I wanted something that I could remove quickly. I also used cap head hex screws that were short enough to give clearance for the cover but able to clamp down all the way on the muzzle end of a barrel. I then took them and inserted brass tips at the end of each screw. I've now done several barrels with it and they have all turned out great and keep zero after a piece of stock has been zeroed out. I was also able to keep the screws in as close to the spindle as much as possible. So far so good.

[@williepierce3933]

Great information. I've been debating using a brass screw and valve lapping compound for the crown. After seeing this, I thought it best to have a pro do it on a lathe. Then, I realized that there is no penalty for giving it a try, and then if it turns out to be a disaster, then have a pro do it. Why not give it a shot? Cheers!

[@precisionmachineshed]

Many people have done crowns that way with acceptable results. Depends on what you are after. If it's a .22 lr, probably not going to matter. A BR rifle, might matter. Ether way give it a shot. Just remember, it will take quite a while to cut material with lapping compound and a brass screw. Get it really close first, then try lapping.

[@josipcro]

How good is a sqar if barrel is tapered???

[@ThomasHA1982]

very nice vid... what if you used a 90 degree pilot assisted hand cutter? Will it be 90 degree or a few thousands off?

[@precisionmachineshed]

I have used those, but have never measured the results. I would say they may be up to a few tenths off, but nowhere near 2 thou.

[@justinbouvier132]

Why you didn’t do the crown cut before using the lathe?

[@McFingal]

Looking good, nice job.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks, much appreciated!

[@kamaljitsingh68]

Can I can get the barrel of marshal airgun with tight grooves

[@MarceloPereira-ll4go]

Top

[@PhilHewkin]

I have a p 14 wildcat cartridge idea. chamber a p 14 (with a good barrel) with 300 wsm. keeping .303 oal at 2.22. this would allow longer neck length on the wsm case, for increased bullet retention when reloading, and the .303 wsm fireformed cases would not chamber in a 300 wsm any longer. (for safety) this should make a decent wildcat out of a classic. what you think?

[@precisionmachineshed]

That would probably work well and make that case a little more efficient along with giving a longer neck for straighter bullet seating. Other than a custom reamer and dies, should work well.

[@LeadTheBore]

Why go with that short little case when you have an uber strong XL length action?

[@j.m.castillo9561]

What is your take on those Crowning Tool with pilot (use with drill or by hand)?

[@precisionmachineshed]

They work OK, but unless you have a special tool made to turn by hand. (I believe Manson makes one) They will chatter even with a good fitting bushing when turned by hand or a drill. Most piloted reamers are best used in a lathe.

[@j.m.castillo9561]

Thanks for the info.

[@Fredmullegun]

It was squared to the bore on the lathe and the outside with the hand file.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Yeah, u could sqaure to the bore with a file if you were stuck doing it by hand. With a good guide, sqaure, and time you could probably get it really close.

[@TWISTEDSTRINGS69]

Is that a 13" South Bend you`re running ? It looks like new !

[@precisionmachineshed]

It's a fully restored and rebuilt South bend heavy 10.

[@TWISTEDSTRINGS69]

Did you buy it that way or have someone do it.. I would like to find someone to restore a heavy 10 for me ? I have a 10K now and love it but I need the larger spindle bore to accommodate barrels....

[@precisionmachineshed]

I had the bed milled then scraped in professionally, along with the compound and lining everything else up perfectly. I did all the painting, tear down, part replacement and re-wicking.

[@TWISTEDSTRINGS69]

Nice work and I like your videos, I`v learned a lot so far..Keep it up !

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks!

[@tomatepintor6203]

Cómo quedó agrupando ??

[@Gixer750pilot]

why did you file it if you are going to face it off on the lathe anyway ?

[@precisionmachineshed]

I wanted to see how close you can get it by hand.

[@danrozanski6130]

You sure that's not a Zastava 798? (imported for Remington)

[@precisionmachineshed]

No, these actions were imported by the hundreds of thousands in the 50's, 60's and 70's. The 798 was introduced from Remington about 15 years ago as a cheaper Mauser import with Rems name on it.

[@casewildenberg8519]

would it be possible to do this on a mill

[@precisionmachineshed]

I suppose anything is possible, but it would be a lot of extra work to get the job done.

[@kathryntruscott6351]

If you lap it with a ball shaped lap, it will always come out perfectly concentric...... :-)

[@precisionmachineshed]

I've seen it done, never did it myself. Maybe I'll test it. Thanks!

[@evilcowboy]

I was also gonna mention lapping lol. Think of the flatness Jean Bugotti managed to get on his head and blocks of his engines. He hand lapped them so flat there was no need to use a head gasket between the two. But you did alright with a hand file it wasn't too far off.

[@CletusLeonardLee]

@martini carbine577/450 You are absolutely correct. If the crown edge is not concentric with the bore, the lapping procedure will just follow the eccentricity. Lapping is not honing. If you lap a rough eccentric crown edge, you just wind up with smooth eccentric crown edge.

[@ralphditore1319]

based on the floor plate release it's a 09 argentine action not a yugoslavian

[@precisionmachineshed]

While it does have a 1909 argentine mauser style hinged floorplate, the 09 Argentine Mauser is a full length Mauser LR action with bolt spacing of 7.835". This action is an intermediate LR mauser with bolt hole spacing of 7.62". You can't swap these actions between stocks without modifying the stock. This is also a commercial action and not a military action as obviously seen by the absence of the notch on the side rail of the receiver. Besides, it says Yugoslavia on the side. I've built a few custom rifles on 09 mausers and this isn't one.

[@cjt4935]

Why didn't you show us how it shot with the same ammo after you crowned the barrel? Now that would have been a lot more interesting. Just saying. JT. from Oregon

[@precisionmachineshed]

Next time.

[@70paladin2012]

Is this a soundtrack from Napoleon Dynamite?

[@precisionmachineshed]

No, probably just a free song from the youtube playlist.

[@Smitty-tc4ni]

Is this Jay

[@precisionmachineshed]

Nope!

[@MarceloPereira-ll4go]

Quem SABER faz ao vivo top

[@georgecorrente4899]

lose the lousy background music so we can hear you clearly!!!

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks for your input.

[@iisadragonborn7128]

its kinda nice

[@StrelokTheStalker]

Really? this is the music you went with?

[@precisionmachineshed]

I'm not a sound engineer.

[@user-bk6nb2yg5l]

Я знаю что вы делаете,но не понимаю как вы умудрились так растянуть видео.. скучно

[@dpeagles]

You don't need the music.

[@precisionmachineshed]

Thanks for your input, it ended up overpowering a few sections of the video that I really didn't want it to. Your input is appreciated.

[@aaronkeener95]

Stop watching at 1.50

[@precisionmachineshed]

10 seconds before it got good!

[@aaronkeener95]

1st. Why did u add the music. Video would be better without it.

[@precisionmachineshed]

It ended up quite a bit louder than I expected.

[@MrApru1]

"by hand" , uses a lathe. 🙄😅

[@precisionmachineshed]

Did you miss the part where I filed it by hand, then went to the lathe to check runout?

[@robertme9080]

0:14 "Accurising" Really !!!!! How about 'Making more accurate', or 'improving the accuracy' ?

[@precisionmachineshed]

Accurizing is exactly that. "the process of improving the accuracy and precision of a gun (firearm or airgun)."