Crumple Zone: understanding how to clear the hip in the backhand

Bunkys Bracing Vid:
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[@JimboELT]

Dude. 1 week later and my lower back pain is gone, I've picked up 5mph on tech disc, steadily 56-57 with LESS effort. THIS IS THE INFO I WAS MISSING. I'm gonna do another month with you on Patron for sure. Now I just gotta get that nose down!

[@_TDG]

Awesome! Love that we got rid of the back pain!

[@discsmd]

Thanks for the shout-out, dude! Very humbled. Respect your stuff for sure! This is a perfect compliment to my brace video. And I did promote that one leg drill of yours to help learn to stop that back leg from rotating around. I've always struggled with this concept in how much driving through with the hips is a natural reaction to the brace vs a forced mechanic. Josh and I discuss it from time to time. I'm going to work through what you talk about here and see how it goes! Thanks a ton for your hard work! Maybe we can chat real-time sometime soon. 😀

[@_TDG]

Of course! Thanks for the inspiration to share my thoughts. Would love to connect on a call sometime too!

[@chadrobinson7234]

Props to the Trebuchet Graphics Department. I think they did a real fine job.

[@_TDG]

Thanks. Ill let ‘them’ know. They spent a real long time working on writing out that header with their left hand.

[@chriskowalski9187]

graphics dept earned their money. useful pictures

[@_TDG]

Thanks Chris!

[@jaswan79]

Bro, this is the first video I have seen on this. You are 100% right. I have always collapsed directly into my brace foot at an angle instead of keeping my weight going forward. I have never even considered that until seeing this and it makes perfect sense. Thanks man!

[@_TDG]

@@jaswan79 thanks! Hope its helpful!

[@jaswan79]

@@_TDG alright just went and did some field work focusing on this and I am getting more accuracy and between 385-405 distance with less effort. Had five drivers all within 20ft of each other and two laying on top of each other. I tried to really crank on a few but my form kinda fell apart. I’m gonna focus on this, slower, for a bit until it’s second nature. Thanks again!

[@_TDG]

@@jaswan79 great work. Yea when you get it right it does create more consistent results with lower ‘effort’. Does tend to fall apart when you ‘try’ to throw harder though. Youre right, the way to add power is to do more low power reps just to set the muscle memory, then *gradually* up the effort and watch to make sure you dont lose the solid physics.

[@toniafields1536]

Your vids are helping me out. Thanks!

[@_TDG]

@@toniafields1536 happy to help! I really think a basic understanding of this concept will help alot of folks progress to having some functional distance quicker.

[@feelthelovenow5391]

Power just went out in a storm and I open KZbin to see a new Trebuchet video? Maybe it's not so bad!

[@_TDG]

Thanks! Hope the power comes back on soon!

[@kleberdigby5298]

So the faster the run-up and plant, the more the hips clear 'passively' has a result of stopping linear momentum? And stand stills you're manually pushing the right hip back?

[@_TDG]

Standstills are super weird and people have alot of different ways to make them work, but they dont always follow the ‘rules’ of good form in a throw with a walk up. In a standstill you dont have any momentum or have do exaggerate something in a weird way to get some. So they are often an exception. And I wouldnt call the hip clearing passive. The front leg is very actively pushing the ground away to stop forward movement, that push being intentionally misaligned with the momentum going forward is what causes the front hip to move towards the front glute. Then that shift allows the rear hip to continue rotating forward since the front hip cleared out if the way and made space.

[@JimboELT]

Wow solid info here brother. This is EXACTLY what I'm struggling to understand/feel. I throw standstills or 1-step only, and I either end up with a good brace but with my rear leg stuck behind me, which is really hurting my lower spine and inhibiting a complete finish, or I manage to transfer weight and throw straight into the dirt. It's like I can't get my torso to finish the range of motion. Is that something you've encountered coaching students?

[@_TDG]

@@JimboELT sounds like you are likely coming over the top of your brace and tilting forward - hence the dirt throws. Can you get me a clip of your throw? Otherwise Im just guessing…

[@JimboELT]

@@_TDG Yessir I signed up for your patreon last night as Yeetus, I'll get a vid later today. Do I email it to you?

[@_TDG]

@@JimboELT awesome! Check the ‘post’ on Patreon. It has a link to my discord, hop on there and Ill set up a private channel for you and we can both put vid links and chat in there. Thanks for signing up!

[@JimboELT]

@@_TDG Awesome thanks!

[@Skullkid_2424]

Just a heads up, you linked to a time in Bunky's vid, which happens to be at the end of the vid. If you remove the `&t=752` from the end of the link, it'll just link to the vid normally. ...and I can't wait for my upper park shift to arrive =)

[@_TDG]

@@Skullkid_2424 thank you!

[@_TDG]

@@Skullkid_2424 fixed now.

[@plumpsquash8521]

Instead of short leg, long leg, Ive been having two long legs. Noticed it on video. My counterweight is good still, but I need to get my rear leg short.

[@_TDG]

If youre getting enough containment from the front it may be fine. If not, best cue seems to be bend your knees more. Get lower during your walk up.

[@plumpsquash8521]

@@_TDG Thank you

[@jackschultz23]

Clearing the hips in ball golf is misunderstood as using the hips for power, when in reality, it's talked about because our clubs are too long these days and we need to move the body out of the way to make room for our hands to make contact. The vast majority of golf swing issues are because our clubs are too long -- pushing hands forward at impact, shallowing the club on the downswing or being laid off at the top, standing on toes at impact rather than rotating on front heel. Disc golf throws and baseball swings which you also mentioned, don't have this issue. My irons are 1.75 inches shorter than standard and I'm going to cut them down even more without loss of distance. I can swing the club with the body rather than having to move the body out of the way. Talk about bracing that is so common in disc golf is never talked about in ball golf. I've gotten much much more coordinated with left arm this past year to help my ball golf swing that's considered right handed in ball golf world, but a left hand backhand swing. I go to fields and throw LHBH discs, and then the next time I hit golf balls, the swing is much better. But I don't have the bracing yet since my right leg is much more balanced and coordinated from other activities growing up. (I threw bowling ball with left hand meaning bracing I braced on right, kicked soccer balls with left foot and bracing on right). When I throw a disc, I can feel my body sliding forward and no weight on front left leg because of that of balance and coordination. My body doesn't trust the leg enough to give it the duty of handling that much weight. The similarity of ball golf swing and disc throw is so direct that my bad throws have the exact same feel as my bad golf swing -- I slide forward and the entire front side of hip shoulder and elbow slide up as well, and I get push cuts in ball golf terms and push hyzers (if that's the right DG term). Getting that front foot forward and thinking of it as a crumple zone seems like a much clearer way to plan for the move rather than only thinking of bracing. Good stuff.

[@_TDG]

@@jackschultz23 thanks Jack!

[@seabas22]

I learned about bracing from ball golf - mainly Shawn Clement who talks about it a lot. Mike Austin also talked about bracing. And I've heard Jack Nicklaus and Lee Travino talk about it - "Get braced up and hit it 310". Maybe it's more of the classic swing vs modern swing.

[@_TDG]

@@seabas22can you quantify classic vs modern? And have you seen Scotty Schefler’s swing (I think I have that name right…)??

[@seabas22]

@@_TDG Generally the Classic Swing uses a narrower stance with more shifting and more free flowing. You will often see the front heel lift off the ground in backswing. The Modern Swing uses a wider stance with more resistance in the lower body. It was considered bad to lift to the front heel off the ground in backswing. Scheffler looks like a mix of both, backswing is a bit resisted but he shifts quite a bit forward. Greg Norman is probably closest to his swing, but I like Greg's more. My favorite golf swing is Mike Dunaway and his coach Mike Austin - who still holds the world record for longest drive in PGA tour 515 yards at age 60 something!

[@Banned920]

I have a different question, would appreciate if you could answer. The 10a clock hitpoint, seen coaches change their minds on this one alot, and if you think that's the right way do you think that I should do it on all throws except for upshots? Sorry for bad English hope you can understand

[@_TDG]

@@Banned920 English is flawless. For sure better than my (insert your native language). The early hit is on a spectrum. You are right it does apply more to full power shots than placement shots. But the same idea is there even in putting at high power / spin rates there is some slinging effect. And its up to you where you want to be on that spectrum. For a while I was not hitting early at all. More like throwing to 12:00. Accuracy was great but I was capped at 300ft. Does that answer your question?

[@Banned920]

@_TDG thank you for the answer, would you recomend out in out to 10 a clock, or linear with a faster arm compared to shoulders with a hitpoint closer to 12 a clock? If I get you right i should go with whatever works best for me ? Throwing pretty linear right now but suddenly started throwing to the right, I don't round but I think I'm rotating my shoulders to fast or not planting closed enough might be what I'm doing wrong,need to film and analyse

[@_TDG]

@@Banned920 missing right consistently just means your body isnt getting organized to work together to make a hit point at 10:30ish… when we line up sodeways and try to throw to 12 with power, that sets up the physics for your power spot (or release) to be way right. So thats where the disc comes out. My one leg drills are the starting point to making foundational corrections on this.

[@_TDG]

@@Banned920out in out doesnt work well for me personally. What works better in my case is the same idea, but starting from a more behind me position that would be labeled as rounding. There is still and out in out, but its relative to the curve or arc the disc is on as my arm swings around. Out in out requires more arm power than I have available. Or the timing never syncs up for some reason. Do check out spin dr’s cook the spaghetti drill to find out how to make an out in out swing path work for you. Tldr: there is always some out in out in a good swing, but forcing it is almost always counter productive. It should happen as a result of good form, not because you are directly making it happen.

[@Banned920]

@_TDG OK nice I get it, thx again appreciate your input

[@twofifty6]

Linux FTW!

[@_TDG]

@@twofifty6 so much less headache on alot of stuff. Install was a breeze… software is all free, seem better. Games arent as accessible tho.

[@twofifty6]

@@_TDG Steam for Linux can run many titles surprisingly well. However, you are definitely limiting your options if you’re building a gaming PC and installing Linux. Though you can always dual boot.