Understanding Vertical Shoulder Collapse with twofifty6

[@ElatedProgramming-xf2xu]

you and dg spin dr are my favorite channels as a new person. im 28 just getting into this - I am strong but I dont have an atheltic background so trying to not hurt myself and fix any issues i notice. You two have been very helpful with correcting some forms that were giving me pain and now I have zero pain driving/teeing off. cheers love the content and your demeaner.

[@_TDG]

Thats awesome! Yes spin Dr is great, very good coach and a very nice guy too. Yes, the cardinal rule is if it hurts, stop and reassess… Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it!

[@Peeingstickymilk]

Dude honestly do not worry about the length of the video. I appreciate a lengthy in depth video on this stuff much more than a few quick tips. You’re doing a great job explaining things keep it up!

[@_TDG]

Thanks!

[@NickKrush.DGandFit]

Thank you for the shoutout! I really like how you tied in the motion of the body as a whole and how it affects where the elbow ends up.

[@isaiahbalter4883]

Thank you for putting out this video. That spine tilt (nose over toes) is put in great perspective from a lot of videos. Your explanation of it gives a bigger picture of things, thank you.

[@dgspindoctor]

Very interesting. Thank you!

[@jerkwagon]

where are you? back in s.america?

[@dgspindoctor]

@@jerkwagon Taiwan.

[@BlitzDG]

Appreciate the kind words! Cool video!

[@drew6051]

Another gem of a video from the man

[@_TDG]

Thanks!

[@NickCarroll]

As someone who suffers from the same elbow drop / shoulder shrug situation that results in the vertical shoulder collapse it seems to me since a) the body is standing up, and b) the body leans to the right, those 2 factors cause that. The body is automatically balancing itself by moving the arms accordingly. So just as the rear leg acts as a counterbalance, the arms are providing similar assistance. So that's why it's good to try and correct all those things together - they're all related.

[@seabas22]

I agree about the hip thrust/spine extension being the cause of the "elbow drop" and talked about this many times on DGCR/FB, but I think you are going about the fix not the best way. He has terrible balance/posture(quad dominant position vs hammy/glute) on the x-step/rear leg and that is causing him to drift west/left on tee over the rear toes. He never gets his rear hip balanced/leveraged/coiled back deeper/east/right behind the heel - a la my Butt Wipe Drill. IMO it would be better to stand up straighter on the x-step and then get into more athletic hyzer tilt going into the plant(like GG), rather than starting the x-step on severe hyzer tilt and trying to maintain that all the way or in his case standing up out of the shot because he was never balanced/leveraged on the rear leg properly.

[@BlitzDG]

Actually think I agree with this. I think his issue is between the x step and plant and it's causing a bunch of shenanigans. I'm not even sure he COULD plant where he is if he was balanced/coiled on the rear leg when planting.

[@_TDG]

Ok I think we are cuing the same thing in different ways though. Adding your butt wipe drill motion correctly would also have the effect of getting his rear leg where I want it. Further east, less south. Im just trying to get him in that position without worrying about coil and we will focus on adding coil once the posture is correct. Am I understanding you correctly?

[@_TDG]

@@BlitzDGnot following the last sentence…

[@_TDG]

Can you send me an example of ham and glute dominant balance like you would prefer?

[@seabas22]

@@_TDG I don't think we are cueing the same thing. It's not about the rear foot placement. It's moving the rear hip back deeper/east looking down the trajectory line/teepad/north so that you can leverage/balance the hip targetward more stacked over/behind the rear foot heel "shifting from behind you". He is so far over his rear toes he can't really leverage the rear hip targetward, he drifts/falls over his rear toes to the west losing a ton a leverage and coil and balance/posture. 256 is doing exactly what I say not to do in my Crush the Can like Lizotte, and Simon Syndrome vids with the front foot striding out diagonally away from the rear foot and getting stuck between his feet. Nobody does the Butt Wipe Drill better than Paul McBeth, he is so stacked and leveraged on the rear foot with his rear hip back deep behind the rear heel. I'll send a pic on FB.

[@OutThereImages]

This is seriously one of the VERY best I’ve seen and I’ve seen too many! LOL

[@_TDG]

Thanks!!

[@jonezy911L]

This drill helped so much and felt a great difference straight away

[@_TDG]

Glad it helped!

[@discsmd]

Why do more people not watch your stuff! Clint actually pointed out that I do this. This was on my list of videos to do. This is great insight. Another aspect of this is mindset, which I'll address in my video. We just try to throw too hard and our natural instinct is to lean back. If you don't mind I'd love to reference this material in my video. Thanks again! Love your stuff!

[@_TDG]

Please, use the ideas! Thanks! Completely agree: we try to throw too hard. I feel like the try hard part should be about building the frame we launch from not the ‘throwing’ part. Link the vids here, Ill take a look! Thank you!

[@hjalmarwidmark5906]

Love this. Thank you!

[@_TDG]

You are welcome.

[@evanlawrence3741]

Love the lessons! One thing I can't wrap my head around is that it looks like a very steep hyzer that you would be throwing on during your drill. How would you then throw the disc flat or get the disc flat? Just throw a very understable disc? I feel like when I throw, I am in more of a vertical or upright position like in the form review but that is how I can then throw a flat straight shot.

[@_TDG]

Good question. You can just go all hyzer all the time and throw flippy discs. Check out Drews throws in the OT footage. Even his 'anny' angles are released hyzer on the power shots. Here is the other option: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4bUZqako7ubgKssi=g1vlMp19Eg0YkzEM

[@brianc1651]

I definitely do this. Thank you.

[@PWheat23]

I like that 1 leg drill, it makes sense

[@miket8336]

Great explanation. Thanks!

[@Winton-fam]

Is this like early extension in golf?

[@_TDG]

Maybe? got a good video you like that covers the idea in ball golf?

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

This robs us of a lot of power since we are basicly making our "club" shorter. Plz correct me if Im wrong, but this also makes like 90 % of our throws go nose up? (I could be wrong here)

[@_TDG]

You are right. When the elbow goes low and the disc goes high then the disc ends up scooping high to low to high. Combine that with a late hit point and you get nose up. Players like calvin and matty o who have a high reachback make it work by NOT having a late hit, so everything still gets to the intended release angle with the intended nose…

[@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430]

@@_TDG ahh that makes sense. Thx

[@MusicGW]

sir how do you keep the elbow up

[@_TDG]

You keep the hyzer tilt. In this case the problem isnt the elbow moving. The problem is the spine angle changing. Fix is to counterweight with the rear leg correctly so your spine tilt stays stable.

[@luuhax]

love "wonkified" as the defacto technical term for the collapsed swingplane x)

[@_TDG]

Everyone loves wonkified...

[@HaikesXO]

Recently I’ve been doing this sort of naturally and trying to “not stand up” during my shot because I noticed how flat my shoulder were. Now I am definitely on more of the axis you’re describing, however, I’m getting terrible toe drag. Like bad to where it’s ruining my shoes. But I’m undoubtedly getting more distance now and it feels smoother. Any advice to help with this?

[@_TDG]

Got a clip?

[@HaikesXO]

@@_TDG oh ya! Where can I send it?

[@_TDG]

Post a link here or treb disc golf at gmail (take out spaces).

[@_TDG]

@@HaikesXO bump

[@chadrobinson7234]

Spin Doctor made a video of this video.

[@_TDG]

Accurate! He even asked permission first, great guy!

[@twofifty6]

Thank you Treb! Tech disc shipping this month so I can’t wait to get it and focus on some one-leg drills. 🙂 You are also not wrong about the tee pads, and the course in general. There is an amazing amount of work put in by the town of Cary, Jay Pontier, and the Capital Area Disc League (CADL) in the greater-Raleigh area. Please do come join me sometime and play on our royal tee pads. 😂

[@_TDG]

Of course! Hope it helps you and others can learn something too.

[@jerkwagon]

Dude your form is coming along so well, too bad you started to mimic me and not someone good! :P. all kidding asside, your next steps on not standing up will change your game, i has for me. Its also made my lower back a lot more sore, so you need to stop if you start feeling stuff going on down,

[@samwho4710]

Not sure how to contact you. Love to send you some footage. I had a stroke and can only use my left arm. I can still throw 350 Max, but i know I've got more in the tank. Love to hear your thoughts. Maybe you might find it valuable to see how I compensate to even reach that far.

[@_TDG]

That would be awesome! Send a clip: treb disc golf at gmail

[@_TDG]

no spaces obviously, just trying not to get spammed to death by bots... ; )

[@Nolast12503]

What course is this?

[@_TDG]

app.udisc.com/applink/course/25849

[@jerkwagon]

yeah pretty sure its diavolla in durham

[@Rydal1]

yo the man, do you do any form check

[@_TDG]

Yep! Check the description for my patreon link.

[@battlethebollocksrodgers9173]

Well you didn't think about Justin Trudeau though did you I don't think he counts as a Canadian

[@_TDG]

Ha! Yea, in my book you loose your Canadian license when you start being a jerk... I'm mostly joking but in all honesty the handful of Canadians I know are are super friendly and just straight up cool people. Seems to be a trend...

[@battlethebollocksrodgers9173]

@@_TDG oh definitely !! Especially those truckers!!! Viva la freedom!