Crusty Ford V-8 engine from our Pantera goes to the machine shop

[@Peteblz1]

The machine shop is seriously a dark art these days. Idk anyone who is going to school for it. So underappreciated. We need more of you.

[@redbarchetta8782]

And booked for months to years in advanced when you do find one.

[@bored2323]

The problem is that it takes years and years to learn the trade and they business of it is hard to establish when new , in other words it’s not a very profitable business in today’s business world , you can make way more opening up an auto body shop or a mechanics shop

[@dougjones9493]

Most of the newer engines are throw away

[@KrustyKlown]

One can self teach machining skills and machine tools/equipment have never been cheaper .. pick up a used lathe and mill and go at it .. far cheaper than paying for an education course.

[@jongar320]

I’m going next year!

[@TheWolfMatt]

Honestly, the Hagerty Team should be running a training program to put kids through this machining process. It's not something that's seen anywhere in the education system unless you pay big bucks to get it from an automotive performance school. Even the military won't teach you all the "ins & outs" of the machining process. Great stuff here guys. Thanks for posting all this great content.

[@davecaron1213]

I got my initial machinist training in the Air Force.

[@TheWolfMatt]

@@davecaron1213 I got some while I was on board the USS Nimitz while at sea. Great fun but there was sooooo much more to learn.

[@williambarry8015]

Seriously. Same with top fuel drag bikes. All the drag bike teams are all old geezers and no young people around for a mile. Perfect opportunity for young people to apprentice.

[@OneEye.]

My machine shop training was at a southwestern Michigan school that at the time was the number 3 high school machine shop at the time. Learned many machining practices. Finished a die for a wire manufacturer that was dead on the numbers of the blueprint. Got the school $10000 for the completion of the die.

[@SGTJDerek]

That was the plan all along when they started pushing College in the School Systems years ago. Vilifying Trade Schools and programs.

[@madatlas3806]

As a machinist myself, who occasionally does engine work, watching you work is amazing. I hope you never stop making detailed videos like this, you definitely have loads of talent and knowledge.

[@victorvarsanyi6702]

I truly appreciate seeing what happens when you send a block to a machine shop. This seems to be the only channel on youtube that shows that. Keep up the great work. Look forward to seeing that pantera back on the road. 👍👍

[@Birdman1632]

Hopefully recommending another KZbin channel is ok. Check out @jamsionline for more great automotive machine shop content.

[@brycechristensen2296]

I love to watch machine work. Another good channel is @jamsionline - Jim's Automotive Machine Shop Inc. They do some really detailed and descriptive videos on a lot of different engines and machines.

[@ShaunHensley]

Second recommendation for Jims They sometimes do livestreams too, and will occasionally answer a good question from the viewers in real time

[@BarryTsGarage]

I show a lot of work that Ed Smith does as well

[@BarryTsGarage]

@@galencaudill6462 except many people add value to the car that has the matching engine, especially a exotic Pantera, like this is…

[@NewArtSchool]

I thought when they rolled it out of the shed this was going to be a 2 episode series maybe 3. This is my favorite Hagerty series ever. Even with the process so far over my head, its gripping content. I can't help but marvel at the skill level of these people. Davin is great at leading through the whole process. So Cool

[@wespitt443]

Please keep the videos going on this Pantera all the way to reassembly, firing back up, test driving all the way to mods, testing, etc. I am living my dream of this car in this series..

[@finalmage6]

Happy to see this return to some "classic" Redline Rebuild content! The car fixes are fun, but this is what brought me to the channel...well, technically it was the Ford 289, but having the engine builds back has been great 🙂

[@davecaron1213]

I started with that big Buick straight eight.

[@markk3652]

I started with the flathead rebuild

[@jejdigo]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@davecaron1213that Buick was awesome. I would love to see him take on a 356 or 359 Packard.

[@marknelson5929]

It's like watching a form of 3D ARTWORK - bringing this 'Crusty Ford V8' back to life so she can perform once again in all her glory in the 'canvas' which is the Pantera.

[@ronniebauman28]

Anyone else find this videos incredibly relaxing?

[@thomastaylor6699]

A really great machine shop (like this one), are very hard to come by nowadays. These guy's really know their stuff as far as machining blocks, heads, and balancing everything out to perfection. 😊

[@mwhitelaw8569]

Old school shops like that joint build some bulletproof stuff man. And most folks can afford it Gonna have to follow along

[@georgiojreij3965]

i took a machining class this semester and let me tell you it’s not an easy job at all but it’s so rewarding once you finish your part and everything is in tolerance

[@smarthome2660]

You touched on how deep you can & can't drill. I drilled the oil passage front to back on a 2.3L Ford engine to get better flow up top to the cam and followers & only just barely breached one heder bolt holes. I bottom tapped it and locktighted a fitting in, then shortened that one bolt. The 2.3L usually need a cam & followers after approx. 50k and I still had 60lbs oil pressure @ 200k miles. Another factor was after 1k miles break in, I tore it apart and hand fitted all the bearings. These steps to balance & line hone you are doing are just a few of the key steps to a lasting engine. I bet this engine will out live you.

[@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm]

so your BLOCK IS A BOSS 351 Cleveland ! 4v = 500 hp is an easy squeeze . super power monster = nice thanks and keep up the good work !

[@ivanolsen8596]

Seeing the slo mo of milling, drilling and tapping really shows up what is going on in the normally unseen world of machining. Well done Fellas!!

[@westmus]

Give the Jims Automotive channel a look, if your interested in seeing MUCH more detailed walks through of this type of engine work. 👍

[@longsleevethong1457]

Yeah those old machines are romantic. I used to mill logs for homes with 110 year old machines. It’s really cool.

[@kyleforeman4543]

All great Machine Shops, brings back good Ole memories, most younger people don't realize what it takes going thru all the fine detail work of a high class machine shop..nice work an filming an explaing everpart tks too all..guys

[@michaelricci9845]

It’s the detail that holds me, the presenter is clearly familiar with build and relies the machinists’ specialties, no drama or speciality promotions a big plus

[@124BILLION]

Love this build and boy is this kid lucky to have a dad who is respected by all you guys cuz his engine is getting the top notch treatment

[@jeffm234]

I have an intact 351c in the shop corner never been taken apart, and another on the engine stand. I need to get back to work on these things.

[@grandepho1]

Every time you see a beautiful clean classic running around, you got to thank these very hard working guys in these very gritty workshops!

[@kevspss]

Spent my senior year working on a friend’s Cleveland. Love that motor.

[@boknows3841]

Finally a real machinist that machines parts by hand. I'm tired of these kids who doesn't know how to turn a wrench or tap by hand. Most times when I see a video of a dumbest and his battery powered drill and impact gun I close the video because I know that they are a hack. The Cleveland was Fords attempt to manufacture a small block engine for Nascar. It had no use for street ability. It's rpm range was 3000 - 7000 rpms. So many of them blew up, and they wouldn't pass emissions, and that is why they only continued building them in Australia. For nostalgia reasons you spent a reasonable amount of money to rebuild it. Your time irrelevant because you used it to promote your business or make a video. Good job!

[@rosschamberlain1823]

Great build! Restricting the lifter bores, or sleeving them for wear, in either case is a good time to check the block for core shift in the lifter gallery area. Some engines are prone to that and can affect lifter & cam wear, valvetrain geometry, etc. especially for a performance build. I don't believe the Cleveland is prone to that though. Will be following this series! I love the Pantera.

[@rbcrain2469]

What a lot of work... I'm impressed

[@getgetoutout]

TrickFlow makes a pushrod for 351C with a restricted oil passage that takes care of the upper cylinder over-oiling. No need for the lifter bore bushing. I have EXCELLENT oil pressure to the crank and rod bearings now. The other 'Must Do' on a 351C, to take care of the factory uneven cooling that causes overheating of the rear cylinders, is to insert a bronze freeze plug under the thermostat and drill a tiny 'air bleed' hole in the center of it. You then can use a 'standard' 160° thermostat instead of paying for the expensive 'Cleveland Only' thermostat. Car runs at 175° all day.

[@markk3652]

Fascinating process you’ve shown here. I find it interesting how much work goes into a rebuild, especially one that involves unraveling the ravages of time these engines suffer. It makes me wonder if some of these engines left the factory with deficiencies built right in. You mentioned that the oil passages were oversized which created the over oiling problem. That’s similar to the flathead engines with the oversized cooling passages that allowed too much coolant to flow, causing overheating issues due to the coolant moving through the system without being able to dissipate the heat. Thank you to all of the fine craftsmen involved in these videos, what you do is absolute magic.

[@stuli6007]

Having worked in an old school engine shop in the early 80s my biggest buzz was giving motors that looked like they were gone a new lease of life. Marinised motors especially..................

[@mndlessdrwer]

The extensive use of reamers is deeply satisfying. It's a woefully under-represented method to get perfectly sized and impeccably smooth holes.

[@genemounce8302]

Good timing. Got my quote for $1,300 worth of boring, decking, honing and a bath yesterday from my "local" 80mi away machine shop lol

[@pappawmiked2162]

With all small block Ford V8's, when possible i will drill out the oil drain holes in the heads. Then, when possible i will polish those holes. Sounds like overkill, but i haven't had any small block Ford engine fail yet. Only been doing this since 1984.

[@rcadd1ct]

I know it is too late, but to possibly help the next guy/gal, Cleveland’s are known for core shift when casting. It is best to sonically test the cylinders for thickness before boring. 30 over is generally max overbore without testing. Again generally. As a life long clevo guy, glad you are saving one.

[@giancarlopbranco]

Man, I only watch this channel because of Davin's classes! Thank you teacher! 👏👏👏👏

[@davecaron1213]

I was a machinist many years ago, in fact I actually did the much of the machining on the Lunar Rover drive units. I really miss taking a chunk of raw metal and making a finished part out of it. And yes, it is a dark art.

[@ElectricDoktorLand]

Absolutely great watching all of these craftsmen working on this engine. I hope this never becomes a lost art.

[@leecogdell652]

I really love these long format videos full of information and especially this one with the technical machinery and how they work is really fascinating so thank you guys very much and keep them coming! Lee

[@e4tm333]

This hands on engineering is great to watch

[@timdyer6196]

Never seen this hole process explain any better. Thank you

[@MrTilbin]

What's neat about the evolution of engines is how manufacturers acknowledged a lot of these oil starvation issues and slowly made it standard in their own production. This is why modern cars get more and more reliable.

[@iamthefatstig]

Absolutely beautiful to watch. Shop work needs to be higher on the curriculum worldwide.

[@timallen6025]

Proper engine shop beautifully filmed and run through , love your narrative guys , thank you

[@350Zquicksilver]

Love the Pantera since I was a kid in the 80's! This is so cool to see the original engine being rebuilt!

[@timgannon2993]

I admire the work with lifter oil gallery's to reduce so much oil getting pumped up top... but most people I know increase the size of drain holes in middle of block to let extra oil drain back down ...fit a bigger volume sump with baffles and get on with life

[@davebarron5939]

Thoroughly enjoyed this episode, the details of the "build" are great, and I have worked with the guys at Thirlby's myself on several builds, they are professional, quick and look out for your interest. Cheers!

[@genewileyopa]

I enjoy watching these steps of rebuilding an engine.

[@MrJak427]

So happy to see a channel doing a Cleveland and not another SBC or LS engine thanks guys so much more interesting

[@asimplehorseman4648]

I really like the episodes at the machine shops. The machines are fascinating. That's going to be a bad ass motor. Looking forward to seeing more of the process.

[@timothynewman8895]

My uncle used to race in the mid 70s had the same problem with a high RPM SBC and he solved the problem by putting pipe cleaners into the push rods got to love old school ingenuity

[@roberthocking9138]

Wonderful to watch professional machines and operators in action

[@carsonvogt3297]

Awesome, learning a lot and gaining a lot of appreciation for this work.

[@slade9372]

I think the machine shop visits are my favorite part of every rebuild!

[@eloymarquez4783]

Thank you for giving as much technical details as possible! Helps to educate us all!

[@SeanJoseph-s2s]

Thanks....good stuff ..looking forward to seeing more.

[@tint661]

I wish I had known about doing this kind of work when I was younger. I loved machine shop in school and I like working on engines.

[@peanut3605]

12:38 " et voilà ! ..." Greetings from France 😉

[@wrightsublette1701]

This is so zen to watch, I'm truly envious of your skill and mastery to rebuild this great engine and bring her back to life.

[@hughmann1908]

The was super interesting, thank you guys for the education!

[@greggc8088]

Looks like you're having fun David. Thanks for sharing with us.

[@samiamm5764]

I miss the good times I spent in engine rebuilding and repair shop class. RIP mr Edwards, the man was a legend, wrote books on the subject. John G Edwards, if u need some reading materials I highly recommend his methods

[@matiasdamian8106]

What a pleassure this videos are to watch dude, Davin, the crew at the machine shop, john at Apex comp just all people doing the work we love to watch and the knoledge and passion the have for it to tho. Can't wait to see this engine im the pantera again but first... In the stand.. ready to roar to life again, healthy and better than ever was, thanks again for sharing all this things hagerty, hope it never ends❤ Keep up the work guys!

[@deanstevenson6527]

Down here in the antipodes,we even used the 351 Cleveland with a 3" stroke and 6.03" inch rod..Even with the greatly reduced conrod loads and 188 to 240 horsepower, the 130 to 90 thou wall thickness Cleveland would split or get perforated bores. Ford Australia even had a lawsuit taken against them for sleeving Cleveland blocks from the factory as a way to reduce scraping the blocks with poor core shift. I'm glad your doing what the Australian factory did with the imported US Cleveland Engine Plant 2 tooling, sent to Australias Geelong line, after the short deck Cleveland engine run finished in mid 1974..

[@johnroof2663]

I tried to get as much information about 351 Clevelands. Because that's the next motor i'm going to build. And some of the comments that I read about not enough Machinist any more. That's what's happening with a lot of our young people. They don't want to work.

[@cratecruncher4974]

So much improvement on this old lump. Oil distribution, roller setup, external balance, etc. This engine shouldn't need major work ever again given how lightly these cars are used now. I echo others sentiments about the disappearing full service machine shop. Gone are the days you could drop an engine off for work locally. It almost always involves shipping and a long nail-biting wait to get it back hoping the business doesn't end up in receivership with your numbers matching castings still in process.

[@thesaltysergeant4103]

The amount of engineering that goes into a internal combustion engine is insane. You guys make it look easy in this video.

[@charlesdalton985]

I was not aware of the oiling issue you mentioned/corrected. Gotta be honest, the "pucker factor" reaming the block would be intense! Thanks for the full walk through - like others have written - this is becoming a lost art sadly. ~ Chuck

[@booyah45828]

To everybody watching this, if you're over-oiling the top end, and lifter to bore clearance is in spec, restrictor push rods are the answer. Also the correct method of installing lifter bore sleeves is a bhj fixture in a machine shop, not a handheld drill. You'll already have the block there to bore/hone anyways, let them do this as well. Lifter bore location and angle is critical for long lifter life, especially on flat tappets.

[@sprintcarsandguitars959]

pushrods ya,but reaming the lifter bores doesn't change the location nore the angle?

[@booyah45828]

@@sprintcarsandguitars959 Reaming with a bhj fixture? No. Reaming with a hand drill? Yes. Hand drill isn't rigid enough, even with a piloted reamer and universal joint. With a lifter radius of 50-60" any angularity change in the bore can cause a lifter to stop spinning, which wipes the cam.

[@ervtobey7865]

They're putting roller lifters in....they don't spin in the bores...

[@tcmits3699]

​@@ervtobey7865your right, but machine shop would've probably had been a better option,

[@bhatab9977]

I used the restricted oil pushrods

[@razcue1]

Can't wait to hear this motor ROAR!

[@Hagerty]

Same

[@georglimiux677]

Back in the day, the schools had metal and wood shop, as well as auto shop. I spent 35+ years as a manual machinist and it HAS become a "lost" art. Was pretty hard to find folks who could do the job, let alone stand most of the day...

[@jonnyboyautomotive]

Can't wait to see the Pantera back on the road!

[@designsbynoz]

I just recently sold all my old Cleveland stuff. 4-bolt blocks, closed chamber 4v heads, closed chamber Ausie heads too. All were already done with screw in studs, guide plates etc....

[@RdandTrk1]

I’m loving this project! What an awesome car the Pantera is!

[@hemi398]

I sure am glad you know what you are doing. Wow!

[@sparkplug0000]

It’s gratifying to see a guy like John working on those heads. Judging by some of the guys about that age that my two daughters drag home, who can’t even drive a straight shift, I’d about lost my faith in the current state of manhood in this country. But I guess my girls are looking in the wrong place, or not looking hard enough, because seeing a young guy like John, with his knowledge and skills, proves there’s still hope for manliness in America.

[@steves9905]

agree that we need to elevate the trades more, and appreciate the skills of the tradesmen. OTOH, its a big world out there and there's room for all kinds of people.

[@tonysteppan8495]

It seems that even reading a six-inch scale is too much. Let alone a dial indicator. It took an old guy to show me with a lot of wise cracks and patience. But I learned how to get it right and made my share of mistakes. I noticed that that old guy was sharper than he looked. The Guys and Gals out there Like John are truly reassuring that all isn't lost. Yup worked with some Gals that were handy on a Bridgeport or Cadillac turret lathe. They were no joke. You know I really enjoy this build. The 1st run up should be interesting.

[@SaneCayne]

I'm a Chevy guy, but I found this totally fascinating and very well done. Thanks!

[@Bilsey007]

When building a Cleveland look for a 4 on the top corner of the head (19:14). This indicates 4bbl heads. These are the Right ones.

[@vettekid3326]

Back when I was a machinist at Caterpillar Tractor I prefered cast iron over steel because when drilling and tapping steel if you hear one squeak its getting ready to seize in the hole. Grey iron because of the graphite in the metal is somewhat self lubricating and much easier on taps and drills.

[@RobertSmith-le8wp]

Man, old Cat engines are some of the best engines I’ve even seen, my Dad has some heavy equipment from the 70’s and 80’s and those Cat diesels will run until the end of time. My brother also has a 1998 Kenworth W900 with a 3406 and that’s probably the best over the road diesel engine ever made.

[@heathfiedler]

Really cant wait to hear it start up. Awesome work so far!

[@Seonaidh966]

Absolutely loved this video. Almost therapeutic!! 😊 Keep up the awesome content!

[@giantpune]

I'm a simple man. I see a 351C and I hit the thumbs up button.

[@allanrheaume5549]

Same!

[@jimmillet1442]

I love watching you guys build engines and the quality work you always do but really bushing the lifter bores is overkill unless you plan on 8k rpm sprints.A simpler way to restrict oil is to use pushrods with smaller holes and it actually works great.I've ran Clevelands my whole life and never really bought in to whole oil starvation thing.The oil system might have been backwards but Ive taken apart many 351c with over 200k miles and the crank journals always showed very little and even wear.On a street driven car I think these mods are not worth it as the engines oiling system however backwards it may be has always done its job on the engines I have dealt with.Also I would be extremely nervous about getting all those brass fragments out of the block!

[@thesaltysergeant4103]

Love watching this whole process!!! thank you Guys!!!

[@thomasmagda4580]

There is so much knowledge here its overwhelming.

[@robertstingley1867]

Caution on going over .030 on a Cleveland or modified as they were horrible for core shift. I have done them .030 and hit water. Have your block sonic checked. A common practice in my shop is to do all 8 in 1/8 wall sleeves.

[@carloskawasaki656]

Thank you for sharing, always a pleasure watch your project, i learn a lot 👍👍👍👍

[@tedheierman1181]

Some serious old school machining equipment.

[@matzrat5006]

Gotta love it, when a new Hagerty Drops. very interesting episode guys.

[@thomashudgins996]

Great job! Can't wait to see this run.

[@buffdoc46]

Amazing episode, love watching the rebuild/restoration of this engine. Can't wait for it to be installed and showing burnouts.

[@raf530i]

Hey! Great build to watch, I was always interested in the Pantera, and seeing its engine down to bare block is fantastic. Just remember, when machining, use oil and not WD40 to lubricate the tool!! WD is more a detergent than a lubricant, it doesn't do good for the tool

[@guyinoakland]

Awesome project. These videos are truly enjoyable, very good shooting and editing. 🎬👍

[@marklaity5436]

That was fascinating. Extremely well shot and narrated. These guys are an endangered species.

[@LeonKotze70]

Damn guys, I haven't seen a cooking how to video with this much detail in. AND, the production and B-roll is top notch. Great job.

[@deanwaring6100]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge 🙏🏻 😊

[@heavyearly2232]

That block sure looks better now.....

[@danonoveh8114]

Thanks for using a 351c that just happens to be what I am looking to do on this one iam building, my block was sitting for 40 yr in a humid environment, iam hoping cylinders will go 030 from being so rusty, I will be bushing lifter bores also, enough of my flapping gums, Thanks for this great video guys👍🏻💯💯💯

[@rgbigdog]

I'm thinking if you made the oil drain holes bigger in the lifter valley it would return the oil must quicker to the pan. I had a 302 block machined at our Ford Guru Machine shop in Charles City, VA and he open up the rear of the lifter valley,. He told me that this will drain the oil a lot quicker to the oi; pan. This was for a 331 Stroker I built for my 1995 Mustang GT.

[@amandahaj7608]

Thank you for your knowledge...that should idle like it's not running..you and your machine shop are wicked good..

[@psychoholicslag4801]

Just a little factoid, the Cleveland engines were machined as the first engine Ford manufactured on computer controlled equipment. It won't affect anything to drill into the intake ports for threading. Just use sealer on the studs.

[@courtneyricks500]

Amazed the block was refurbished. Thank you for sharing.

[@BarnStangz]

I can't wait to show my old man this video, he's going to love it as a machinist and engine builder for over 50 years. It's always so nice to watch stuff like this in action, I'm also lucky that I made videos (that are on my channel) of some tips and tricks when doing engine work, like this, from my father. It's crazy to think about how many engines guys like this have touched over the years. Thanks for the video.

[@shawng7902]

I was wire brushing mine down to paint it. around #4 cyl freeze plug. I noticed what looked like about a 1/8"hole. found 2 just like it once paint was gone. It actually rusted out from the inside out and put 2 small holes in the side of the block. This motor is gonna be the one that I build that outlasts me. Its been blown up and worn out. Cleaned and put most of it all back together. Some stuff 10x too loose some too tight. It should be ready for a 500 shot fogger no issue lol. My $$$$ motor will let go on break in i bet.