DOS Games On A 2008 Mac... Under Windows 11!?

[@xPLAYnOfficial]

Great video! A few things I wanted to offer in terms of information: 24H2 introduced a new required compatibility feature, which is a specific CPU instruction (called POPCnt if I remember), that only CPUs Sandy Bridge or newer have available to them. This makes Windows 11 functionally not work on anything older, like LGA 1156, 775, etc. As for the EFI implementation, the issue is that it is a 64-bit system with a 32-bit EFI. That kind of EFI is sadly unsupported on Windows since Windows 7, though you can make it work technically if you know what you're doing and can patch the installer appropriately. For the GTX 680 it only *kinda* supports DX12. It does, but only feature level 11_0, which means that most DirectX12 games will actually fail to start. It's the absolute bare minimum DX12 support, and Nvidia continued to do this until the 900 series (Maxwell). Debloating Windows is... not recommended. It does help with performance but it actually results in some instabilities (it's worse in 11 than it was in 10). I would take caution when doing it (or recommending it to others). To fix the audio issue, I would just install a USB audio chipset adapter (Pluggable makes a great one). They add in their own sound chip that has much better compatibility and tends to work better :)

[@josch1710]

The info on the 32bit EFI is true for the 1,1 and 2,1 Macpros, but not the 3,1 and later Macpros.

[@Hadisabetghadam]

1st Gen Intel Core I Series Does Have SSE4.2

[@windowsfan95]

@@HadisabetghadamAnd PopCnt Support

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks for the info. I've since investigated and it seems the Xeons in this machine only support SSE 4.1, while 24H2 requires 4.2. So I think this is as good (or as bad, depending on your view of Windows 11) as it gets... 😁 As others have stated, the EFI thing was certainly true for my 1,1 MacMini, but by 3,1 Apple had moved to a 64-bit EFI - just not a 100% compatible / modern implementation, based on my understanding.

[@SuddenGamesbooch]

Express pcie trust card from Amazon can do that win 11

[@ericksonlk]

Now I want a 1tb NVME on a PCIe adapter for my old computers to play eXoDOS games. My gaming backlog is growing on exponential speed. Thank you sir!

[@someoneelse3876]

Exodos seem great! I'll have to try that out, in two days, when the download is finished😃

[@ctrlaltrees]

I'm seeding as fast as I can! 🤣

[@michaelheimbrand5424]

Me and my "gaming rig" iMac 2010 running OpenBSD and Quake would like to say that this was a nice use for that gorgeous Mac Pro. Apart from the annoyance of 32bit EFI the 2008 Mac Pro is still a beast. I have one too. Also, thanks for reminding me of the CTRL trick for setting default drive at "ALT start". It's very useful on non-MacOS Macs.

[@TechToTunes]

Open core legacy patcher allows you to boot off the data drive then forward through to booting off nvme on pci.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks for the tip. I've been experimenting with OCLP and managed to get it booting using the setup you mention with some current (patched) versions of macOS, but couldn't quite get it booting Windows for some reason. Probably just a lack of understanding on my part but it's something I'll keep playing with.

[@TheBasementChannel]

Clever idea with the drive swap install. I had lots of issues trying to get the windows installer working on my MacPro.

[@markleuck]

Thanks for the link to the debloat software, been looking for something like that for a while

[@GarthBeagle]

Excellent use for this really, love it!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks! In the words of the great Dr. Ian Malcolm: "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" 🤣

[@RyanMercer]

👍

[@jvanderberg]

Getting windows 11 running on there was an impressive feat indeed. But you can run dos games in dosbox on just about any platform, including the last supported versions on macOS for this computer. Running dos games natively on this rig would be cool indeed.

[@evefavretto]

The installer issue is probably because the Intel Macs are a bit weird and will only boot MBR from the internal drive OR the optical drive, not via USB (unless it's a MacBook Air or the later models without DVD drives, that had no optical drive) I have a 2011 MBP and it can install Windows via UEFI, but then the audio won't work because of some weird UEFI memory shenanigans.

[@binarydinosaurs]

Amazing. I don't WANT to fix my dead Mac Pro but now it looks like I'm going to HAVE to 😆

[@cleanycloth]

In theory you could put a tiny SSD in the system with just a bootloader, say, rEFInd, and boot Windows off the NVMe that way. I haven't tried that but I assume that might work? To raise the audio level, try going into the sound options and going to Enhancements, and enabling Loudness Equalisation.

[@robmcleod2876]

I used to do something similar to make my windows 10 install boot properly on a 4th gen i5 Intel PC. I used a USB thumb drive with clover to boot to a menu where I could choose the nvme drive. Worked perfectly!

[@JohnSmith-iu8cj]

Yes it works. I recommend a usb stick. You should use refind and add the nvme driver from clover. It is included in clover but needs to be copied to another folder. I read about serious problems when using clover on macs, about it permanently damaging the firmware of some macs. I don’t know the details tho. That’s why I would use refind only. I use clover on old non uefi pcs, I had to use version not newer than 5070 iirc. There is a BDU software for windows to create the clover bootstick.

[@cleanycloth]

@@JohnSmith-iu8cj You mention clover but I just remembered OpenCore Legacy Patcher also has NVMe support IIRC, so you might even be able to use that.

[@JohnSmith-iu8cj]

@@cleanycloth does OCLP support windows installations?

[@cleanycloth]

@ Yeah - in fact I use OCLP as a bootloader for my Mac Pro to boot Monterey and both Windows and Linux using rEFInd. It’s whether it will boot Windows/Linux via NVMe is the thing. I don’t see why not.

[@LuminalSpoon]

2008 wasn't 17 years ago? Oh dear I feel old now.

[@Chriva]

This video series is just getting better and better 😂 Apple fanboys tend not to like windows (or games, apparently). Action retro levels of antics :D

[@ctrlaltrees]

Ha! Thanks - I've certainly had some interesting feedback from Apple fanboys... Not to mention the Linux fanboys 🤣

[@SenileOtaku]

Rather than having to put in a NVMe-to-PCI adapter, why not just use those other SATA drive bays? (other than to show off some other hardware). That was one of the reasons for using my old IBM x3200 HMC as a case for my Ryzen7 system; the OS (Linux plus an almost never used MSWin10 partition) boots from an NVMe, then I have the 4 front-loading SATA drive bays and two optical drives. Spinning rust is quite sufficient for data files, etc.

[@Eyetrauma]

0:55 I have a 4 year old computer that isn’t a brilliant Windows 11 machine so I’m intrigued how this will work out

[@ctrlaltrees]

🤣

[@JenniferinIllinois]

Taking a Mac, installing Windows and playing DOS games on it. I approve. 😁

[@jeffsims7386]

Is there a reason you didn’t install the drive in one of the optical bays instead?

[@gdutfulkbhh7537]

Wow! You found a use for Windows 11?

[@Xxc-iw7yj]

Say what you want about Apple, I myself never liked their walled garden model, among other things - but the ergonomics and the elegance of the interior in those old mac desktops is something that just isn't common, not just today, but in general. It seems like back in those days Apple was actually giving a shit about their hardware.

[@ctrlaltrees]

There was certainly a period in the late 2000s where they seemed to get everything right. I'm a big fan of the new Apple Silicon architecture but the complete lack of upgradeability and repairability of their current machines leaves a lot to be desired.

[@stevef6392]

I believe Windows 24H2 requires SSE 4.2 to even install. An '08 Mac - that would be Core 2 Xeon based, right? So probably just SSSE3; perhaps SSE 4.1 if it happens to be based around the second revision of Core 2.

[@SirAzur3]

I remember a long time ago I had to finally upgrade from my single core Athlon XP becasue it didnt even have SSE2 and Roblox required it all of the sudden, saying "Roblox requires SSE2 support" when trying to play. It was sometime around 2014.

[@windowsfan95]

Correct. 24H2 also requires support for PopCnt which was introduced with the first Intel Core I in 2008

[@SenileOtaku]

@@SirAzur3 Not being able to play Roblox; I'd think that would be a *feature* rather than a bug... (after trying to get my daughter weaned off of it).

[@ctrlaltrees]

Indeed, it seems this generation of Xeon maxes out at SSE 4.1. Thanks for the heads up.

[@FrustratedApe]

I'm not 100% sure Win 11 24H2 will work on the 2008 Mac Pro - you will need to check if your CPUs support SSE4.2 to install it.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks for the heads up. I've just checked and it seems the Xeons in this machine max out at SSE 4.1! I wonder what will happen if and when it attempts to upgrade itself...

[@JohnSmith-iu8cj]

Interesting. I need to check my x58 system, what SSE it has and what version of 11 it runs.

[@ChrisJackson-js8rd]

.AMI UEFI? or something actually distinct?

[@idahofur]

Wonder if that would work on a xserver with windows server 2025 or what not.

[@Fataha22]

Should use ltsc version of windows Everything else is great!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Definitely something I need to investigate, thanks for the tip!

[@cesaru3619]

Wait, you can play games on a mac? NO WAY!

[@frumpymussel]

Or just install 23H2 then update to 24H2

[@Tailslol]

It will boot loop during upgrade and roll back, i have the same issue on a x99 pc.

[@frumpymussel]

@@Tailslol oooh mb

[@simongomez8120]

Awesome vídeo😍😍😍😍 genial éxodos, this tutorial Will work on all macpro models or Which model i need?? Thank you very much

[@ctrlaltrees]

It will certainly work on MacPro 3,1 and above, and I have had similar success with a MacMini 1,1. So I think it should work on anything (with varying levels of hardware support). To be honest though, this is just an experiment, I wouldn't want to use this setup for any kind of serious work.

[@simongomez8120]

Thank you very much for your answer👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@DNS_David]

ok i have windows 10 on that

[@ScottDuensing]

Windows on a Mac just makes me sad.

[@JohnSmith-iu8cj]

It makes me happy 😂

[@forplayplay]

These were off the shelf fucking Intel processors. There is no mystery here for you to solve.