The Weird Story Of The Atari 7800

[@vwestlife]

An important correction about the "massive foothold" the NES and Sega Master System had in the U.S. by the time the Atari 7800 was (re-)released in 1986: *that isn't true.* The NES was test-marketed in the New York City area beginning in October 1985, but both it and the SMS weren't released nationwide until September 1986, while the 7800 had its nationwide release in May 1986, so it had a head-start by several months. And by the spring of 1988 the 7800 had sold one million units, pretty much neck-and-neck with the SMS. But what made the 7800 seem like a distant third place was the lack of 7800-specific games for it, especially in the first year after release. Atari tried to make up for it by putting "also plays on 7800" stickers on 2600 games, but those gave a poor impression of what the system was really capable of.

[@sunspot42]

Even had it come out in June of 1984, the console market was still in the middle of a meltdown, it didn't have any crucial new games to lure in players, and I think most-importantly it didn't offer a much improved gaming experience over the 5200, let alone the personal computers of the era, which had plummeted in price due to Tramiel's price war at Commodore and then Atari. At that time as a consumer it just didn't make sense to sink money into an expensive console and even more expensive cartridges when pretty much the same software titles - plus many, many more - were available literally for free on computers. Software piracy was rampant, on BBSes with backdoors and even sneakernet with friends, so it was easy to amass a library of 20+ titles with only a drive and a modem. Which at that point would pay for themselves. Not to mention many floppy titles on computers often sold for less than the same titles on cartridge for a console, so even if you didn't resort to piracy, the computer was still the cheaper gaming platform for serious gamers. If you were planning on having more than a half dozen or so games, computers like the C64 and Atari 800 - which had equal if not superior graphics and better sound than the 7800, plus a whopping 64K of RAM - were the better deal overall. So I think even if it had launched in the summer of '84, it would have done OK but wouldn't have become a huge profit center for Atari. And with the Tramiels terminally clueless regarding game development, I doubt it would have had a software library capable of fending off Nintendo from '85 forward as their console became available. I think that war would have ultimately gone down in a similar fashion, with the NES clobbering the 7800, although the 7800 might have sold more like 2 million units total by the end of its lifespan as opposed to the ~1 million they ultimately supposedly managed to move.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks so much for this, I've pinned it so people can see as I'd hate to mislead. Nintendo isn't my specialist subject so in my head the NES launched in 1985 and instantly revolutionised the world of gaming - I guess I only have other (less scrupulous) KZbinrs to blame for putting that idea into my head. 😁

[@baroncalamityplus]

The primary reason for the Atari 7800's failure was the company's lack of focus, as it pursued five different directions simultaneously, diluting marketing efforts and resources. Between 1986 and 1988, Atari was juggling the 7800, XEGS, XE 8-bit line, ST line, and the 2600. A more concentrated effort on just two of these could have led to greater success.

[@vwestlife]

@@baroncalamityplus Atari did try, but a big problem as that all the major game developers were locked up in contracts with Nintendo and Sega and weren't allowed to release their games on the 7800. The XE Game System was released in 1987 in response to the 7800's lack of games and also the sharp decline in demand for 8-bit computers in the U.S. It was a way to quickly repackage old (but still very good) computer hardware and help sell Atari's old (but still very good) 8-bit computer games, which were a lot more comparable to the NES and SMS than a 7800 playing mostly 2600 games.

[@sunspot42]

@@vwestlife The XE GS was years late to market tho. In a lotta ways, it’s what the 5200 should have been back in ‘82. I was glad they released it - I grabbed one on clearance - but they should have just maintained focus on the 7800 at that point. It had (mostly) better hardware, apart from the lame sound chip, and even tho the XE GS could play everything written for the 8-bit Atari computers, very few titles ultimately made it out on cartridge, and most of them were 5 years old already (or older). It didn’t really help them with the lack of titles issue the 7800 had suffered from. They needed NEW titles from top developers. That never happened.

[@japhyriddle]

Some of the 7800 games were designed with RF blurriness in mind. For instance, Tower Toppler's bricks are supposed to appear as solid colors, instead of stripe patterns. It makes it much easier to see what’s going on.

[@jhoughjr1]

Yeah a lot of their tech for colors was integral with CRTs

[@EdgyNumber1]

So daft not allowing a modern soundchip.

[@djcsdy2]

I enjoy this story because it illustrates that Jack Tramiel, the famously shrewd businessman, was in truth a feckin eedjit who got lucky a few times when he hired some engineers who were far more capable than he was.

[@fenixlolnope361]

Most businessmen are lucky idiots tbh. Unless they carry their own through engineering know how, they’re just a big leech to any company

[@djcsdy2]

@@fenixlolnope361 yep

[@fenixlolnope361]

@@djcsdy2 jack was such a character though. I get a good kick out of a lot of his quotes and general eccentric behavior.

[@phantomharlock999]

What a weird take. Jack didn't care about videogames at all. He had no interest in completing with Nintendo or Sega. He bought Atari specifically to complete with Commodore in the home computer market. The videogames were an afterthought. Also, that 5% of the vg market share was still enough that Atari was making (not losing) money from videogames in the late eighties probably because they were offering a more budget friendly option. Everybody hates Jack now because that's the modern internet narrative but I lived through all the eras of Atari and Jack's was definitely my favorite.

[@jhoughjr1]

Yep yep yeeeeep! Still remember his lying face in vgm.

[@jacofwudsn]

Cool! Thanks for the background information about GCC. I wasn't aware of that or that the DMA uses a higher clock than the CPU. I'm very happy to see that my write-up was helpful in modding the machine. Fun fact: The mod was for a friend's machine. My own 7800 still has its RF output. And I drove 500 miles on a Sunday some years back to buy a 1997 Lowew Calida 5672Z CRT. It has an analog receiver but digital noise filtering and 100 Hz output. One of the very last CRTs of that era. It is probably the best it can get without a mod.

[@TheWellHungPony]

The 7800 was my first console, since they were sold out of NESes when dad was going to buy me one for xmas and I was way too impatient to wait for them to restock.

[@mikedehn8654]

I work in the IT world on the hardware side. I also have a background in electronics. I find your video very entertaining. I especially like that you aren't coming off condescending about the old technology. It was state of the art in its day. I show some of these games to my grandkids and they are quickly bored of them. My dad used to show my brother and I old black and white movies and we did the same as my grandkids. Except for Space Invaders. I guess some of the classics aren't too dated. Keep up the great work 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@freeculture]

I was a kid of the 80ies, and one thing that got me frustrated while i was a kid is how Atari games were always simplistic and short lived, like you experienced the entire game in 1 minute. Compared to the Intellivision which didn't came much after. For me ColecoVision was the king but super expensive, Then NES came and destroyed everything else at least in this part of the world... Very few games of Atari 2600 could i possibly tolerate, one being Adventure. Of course i know the Atari 2600 was excessively crippled, at least the 800/400 line and later pcs had more decent titles but by then i went IBM clone PCs. Why do i mention Intellivision? Treasure of Tarmin would be a good example of a game that would not be stupid or short. I later discovered more rpgs in PCs. Ironically, Nintendo of America did not want RPGs in America, they did exist in Japan, but they though American kids were too stupid for them. I'm not kidding. I'm amazed of what things were done with such limitations in the 2600, the assembly code, but that's about it. Activision is a legend in that regard. But to Atari's defense, the 2600 was only meant to last a couple of years, the 800/400 was supposed to replace it and they would only improve from that. But i think marketing or whoever ran the company forced them to keep the 2600 because "it was selling too well", leading to the crash of 1983 and the infamous E.T. game thrown to a landfill. You should show them the Arcade versions, for space invaders just run mame and run the real thing. Its still dated, but is at least much better than the 2600 blocky and simplistic. I was able to play the real arcade in the 80ies, it had decent sounds and (monochrome) graphics, but the screen was tinted red at the top and green near the bottom, so you got the illusion of having 4 colors. Also remember that was Taito game, not Atari's. You know the other thing i don't miss? The atari 2600 controls, which kids would destroy in weeks anyway. Everyone seemed to hate the Intellivision controls, but i loved them. Turns out those had 16 digital directions, but only a few games like Sea Battle really used them all. Except for analog inputs, nothing ever matched that level of precision, everybody else had the same boring 4 directions as Atari, which was ok for most but not all games.

[@mikewest6569]

I was an Atari dealer in the 80s and went to an Atari trade show at a local hotel. One of the salesmen brought me and a few others to show us the Atari 7800 that they were working on. No case, just PCB boards and the pole position prototype cart. He told us it would be released within six months, that never happened. We were very impressed and mentioned to him, it was not much better then the current Atari 8-bit line. He told us within time the games would reflect the capability of the machine.

[@RetroBytesUK]

I had no idea about the sound chip. Atari made some interesting business decisions around this period. Sitting on warehouses full of them for 2 years probably being the oddest.

[@steveafulton]

Nice work! The 7800 is one of my favorite "lost" consoles and it's nice to see it getting out there more.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks! Hopefully the new 7800+ will lead to more love for this underrated console 😁

[@steveafulton]

@@ctrlaltrees I'm hoping the same, it might get me to sharpen up and finish a few home brew games!

[@faenethlorhalien]

I only saw a couple ads for it on Spectrum magazines published in Spain early on and never a bit more. That's how little Atari mattered there, sadly.

[@polymatt]

Super cool and I love the USBC PD angle. It’s such a great eliminator of aging bricks to keep track of. And gotta love the sultry tones of MFMI in the background during a nice solder session!

[@dustinramsey1198]

Absolutely stoked to see this video. The Atari 7800 is by far my favorite obscure console out there, with my favorite homebrew community as well. I'm sure this is an excellent video, very happy to see your content!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks so much for the kind comment. I'm hoping to check out the 7800 homebrew scene (and modern Atari homebrew in general) in a future video!

[@hosk1677]

My family’s first console! Got a lot of hours in with Pole Position, Barnyard Blaster, and Jungle Hunt. My dad followed this with the XE. Two rather quirky but great systems.

[@Mrshoujo]

What's 'quirky' about Atari consoles in your opinion?

[@hosk1677]

@@Mrshoujo I think what stands out for me is the 7800s backwards compatibility. Maybe more cool than quirky. We didn’t have a lot of money, so picking from the 2600 catalogue was great. The XE? That was an odd system, specifically the XEGS, which is what we had. Could be sold as a stand alone game console or with the detachable keyboard since it was also an 8 bit computer. The design, with its slanted lines and pastel buttons was unique, at least for a North American console/computer.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Oh the XEGS certainly was quirky - in a good way! I always thought the design was great with the big pastel coloured buttons and the concept of being able to convert between console and computer just by plugging in a keyboard was very novel. I have an awful lot of love for the XEGS and am planning on a similar video all about it in future. 😁

[@StooCambridgeArtist]

Superb video! I've got a 7800, un-modded so really needs to be given some TLC to allow me to use it again without severe eye and ear strain! The USB mod is a great idea and it's nice to see it working so well. Nice one! 😎👍

[@PixelRefresh]

Yep certainly get that sorted Stoo!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Well I wouldn't trust me to mod it, I'll probably break it 😂

[@PG-gs5vb]

Fatal Run, Ninja Golf and Food Fight for the 7800 have already been released a couple months ago, though Food Fight is now only available in NTSC regions since the PAL version apparently did not work on the 2600+ with the original firmware. It works with newer firmware versions but they did not want to release it knowing that a firmware update would be necessary. So currently it is on hold.

[@Meebzorp5200]

Speaking of Best Electronics, they had blown out 2600 red box and 7800 games back in the 90s for a few dollars apiece. Some rare titles, too. Can't believe they are still in business and they still seem to have new old stock of Atari items today.

[@ctrlaltrees]

My understanding is that they bought up all of Atari's warehouses in 1996 for next to nothing and have been slowly filtering it out to the community ever since. They're also very reasonably priced considering they're the only place in the world that has some of this stuff. I know some people speak ill of Bradley because he can be an "interesting" fellow to deal with at times but I've always found him incredibly helpful and knowledgeable.

[@Meebzorp5200]

@@ctrlaltrees That timeline sounds right to me because that's about when I found out about them and their catalog style of purchasing where you had to kind of call him for details and if he had certain things. He had a website around that point with a lot of inventory online and what you presented in your video in regards to his current day website was about the same as it was back in the 90s, so some things never change. I recall buying 5200 joystick repair kits because I had found a new one in the box and the membrane contacts would go bad while in the box, never played. He had upgraded membranes from a later Atari revision you could swap out (the membrane had the button contacts on it) which worked great. I've heard about the hate towards Bradley and I'm not sure where it comes from. He does seem a bit eccentric perhaps but I found his company and service a great asset to the retro community.

[@Meebzorp5200]

@@ctrlaltrees Yes, I have seen the negative feedback about Bradley but never experienced that. Quite the opposite. I think Best has done a great service to the retro community long before retro was a thing.

[@Meebzorp5200]

@@ctrlaltrees His website back in the 90s was pretty much as you featured it in this video. A sort of mail order clearing house for all things Atari. Other than the aforementioned cartridge games, I recall buying 5200 joystick repair kits from Best that were newer revisions. The early revision membranes (where all of the buttons make contact with the ribbon) were so poorly made that they would go bad while new in the box. I found new in box 5200 sticks elsewhere and they failed straight away. Replaced the membranes and they were good to go.

[@HandlebarOrionX]

0:38 The most perplexing thing about the 7800 gamepad isn't just the placement of the d-pad and buttons or the pretty cool feature where you could screw a joystick in it, but the placement of the thumb shaped grooves for the buttons. Who would hold a gamepad like that?

[@WalrusFPGA]

tower toppler is much easier to play when using the intended composite blend to make the backgrounds more cohesive. The blending feature on MiSTer's core was added pretty much exclusively for that game and there's a vid showing that in action in my archive for example. Really transforms it.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Interesting, thanks! I must admit I've pretty much exclusively played it on MiSTer so I bet that's where that impression came from. I shall check it out again with blending enabled as it's certainly a game I'd like to get into.

[@neakmenter]

excellent vid rees! history - solder work - mods & updates - keep 'em coming - you're on a roll!

[@custardo]

Good video! The 7800 deserves some love.

[@root42]

I just finished modding my 7800, leaving the RF modulator completely in the system. And it took me way too long. Also I needed help from tfhh, who diagnosed some issues and replaced the crappy SRAM board. Now I have the UAV board in there as well as the RF modulator. Nice.

[@VincentGroenewold]

I must say that I'm very happy I didn't follow the saga behind the computers of Atari or Commodore back in the day and just enjoyed whatever came out. :) If I would've known it would've been so frustrating. Great overview and video!

[@JamieOrlando]

Those Engineer solder suckers are really nice.

[@ctrlaltrees]

It's so satisfying!

[@nickwallette6201]

My only problem with them is the maintenance. You need a steady supply of replacement silicone tubing for the tip, and you have to take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lubricate the rubber O-rings quite often as well. If you don't, then they just kind of sluggishly retract, which does eff-all to suck out hot solder. I ended up getting two of them, so I could have one that was fresh and good to go, and one that I could use until it needed to be maintained. But, predictably, now I just have two of them that need maintenance.

[@techdistractions]

Sega Mark III and Master system was backwards compatible to SG1000 but it was no where near the back catalog of the VCS :-)

[@ctrlaltrees]

A-ha! I'm glad someone mentioned this, you're a smart cookie. I did discover this during my research for this video and very nearly mentioned it, but couldn't really put my thoughts together in a way that made sense. In my opinion (and it is just that, my opinion) the 7800 was intended as a new generation of console vs. the 2600, whereas the MkIII was an upgrade to the existing SG1000 design as per the MkII - hence the name, of course. That is very open to interpretation though and I'm glad someone mentioned this. Certainly better than Google's AI thing which insists that the Game Boy Color was the first 🤣

[@loganjorgensen]

38:49 That's a Composite Artifact Color based title, the 320 wide vertical streak dither is a dead giveaway. Other than the Apple I mod board I don't know of any other PAL based examples of that type of color generation being supported properly outside of NTSC land.

[@Mr.1.i]

The nes had a staggering 1359 titles across 6 regions.....the sms roughly 360,the 7800 only 59 including over 400 2600titles really atari were behind in their own event...the 7800 should have been 16bit to keep ahead

[@rahkuaschount]

Regarding backwards compatibility, the Atari 7800 was not the first. The Coleco ADAM released in 1983 was fully backward compatible with all ColecoVision cartridges as well as next-generation ADAM-only software.

[@WhatHoSnorkers]

That was lovely Rees. Thank you!

[@10p6]

What the.. Where is the music to Commando?

[@ctrlaltrees]

Erm... That is indeed a very good question 😳 I'm not quite sure what went wrong there.

[@fetus2280]

We were far too poor to have one of these, my only exposure to them was in Radio Shack at the mall or a rich friends place, got to play with Colecovision, Loved that system back then. It was only those who had two parents with good jobs that could afford a home console back then, in Canada it was Super expensive to buy one. Prob why I enjoy videos like this, get to see what I missed out on in the computer/games industry. Then again. Was probably for the best, I went outside and enjoyed physical activity :)

[@bobbus_74]

Now this is my kind of video. Top work, Rees. This makes me want to mod my (as yet) unmodded 7800. Having seen the results of the UAV mod that you did for me on my 2600, I'm thinking I might have to have a go at this soon. Anyway, loved the video. Keep at it, mate.

[@ChrisAshtear]

The hat trick arcade game is fun as hell. Too bad the 7800 had a port that looks like it runs at 5fps

[@john2001plus]

The console was announced in June 1984. I wanted one because the specs sounded really cool. However, it came out in May 1986. By this point, with the NES already out, it felt like too little too late.

[@snkfan7506]

Still have my family's 7800 from 1986. Other than having to resolder the RF port at one point, it still works perfectly.

[@lurkerrekrul]

I first learned about the 7800 from an article in Electronic Games magazine. They had what turned out to be artist's renderings of the games, but at the time, I thought that they might be actual screenshots, just printed out on a color printer. Anyway, i immediately wanted one. Of course it then disappeared until one day I happened to see stacks of them in a local toy store. Unfortunately, I didn't have the money to spare. I did later get a used one off the net, along with a couple games. I also later bought a few games. I really didn't end up playing it that much, but just owning it scratched the itch that I had had since seeing that magazine article. I also got one of the better ones, as it had no problem playing Robot Tank, or working with the Starpath Supercharger, which are two things that some version of the console had trouble with. As for the sound, while the sound chip was fairly outdated, various Atari 2600 games showed what it could do in the right hands. For example, Gyruss plays a respectable version of the arcade's music. Mountain King (which only includes some extra RAM in the cartridge), plays one tune when you're hunting for the flame spirit, and after you grab the crown, it plays a nice rendition of In the Hall of the Mountain King. Super Huey - This is a port of an 8-bit computer game. I never cared for this on any platform. Hat Trick - This is actually an arcade port. I liked it better on the C64. The 7800 version feels too stiff. Impossible Mission - I'm sure you know that the NTSC version of this shipped with a bug that made the game impossible to complete. Fans have since fixed that bug and released ROM images of the corrected version. Unfortunately, however nice it might be to play, that annoying, droning sound whenever you enter a room completely discourages me from playing it. Obviously this one was never actually playtested, because I can't see ANYONE being OK with that. I know they did it because the C64 original had the robots make noise, but there it was a subtle effect, not a loud screeching that makes you want to drive ice picks into your ears.

[@squirlmy]

17:24 it's a bit counter-intuitive, you added solder, and then "de-soldered" the connections??? Umm, why wouldn't you "de-solder" first, and then add extra solder??? Maybe it seems quite obvious to soldering experts, but...

[@DaveVelociraptor]

Did you know if you connect 3 2600 together into a cluster you can play Ninja Golf

[@Mr.1.i]

x3 2600 ninja golf (I've just put it in the search) I got 7800 ninja golf,I didn't even get 2 2600s in series

[@davidgill7412]

This was my first game console. I still have a soft spot for this one.

[@PixelRefresh]

Didn't really know much about the other Atari consoles other than the 2600, and this was very interesting! A shame you had a number of issues with a couple of the units, but glad you persevered and managed to get the video out. Very enjoyable indeed!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks for the kind comment and glad you enjoyed the video. 😁

[@phantomharlock999]

I think what happened with the 7800 is that Atari was saddled product from a previous era and was forced to either sell it or destroy it and write it off. They chose to sell it likely because of it's compatibility with 2600 games. So, it just got chucked out as the strange middle child between the 2600jr which was clearly meant to be a budget option and the XEGS which was meant to drive gamers to Atari's home computer division. It's funny, because it wasn't even that long ago, but everyone thinks that there were no videogames in 1984 or 85 and then all of the sudden the NES appears in 86 and was just overnight the most popular thing ever. In reality it was way more of a slow burn. Most kids I knew didn't have an NES until about 88, it was massively popular, and reduced in price buy then.

[@Marinus_Retro_Lounge]

Love your videos, always a joy to watch. Best regards and wishes from Germany

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thank you for the kind comment - this one was a huge amount of work so I'm glad it's appreciated!

[@Bigbacon]

7800 was my first new console and i loved it even with the nes being a thing. All the 2600 games available cheap or free was amazing. Wish the sound chipnwas standard though. Sound really hurt it

[@BluePlanetMedia]

Please update us if you have any leads on fixing the units with issues. I'm also experiencing this.

[@igorperuchi2114]

Thanks for the thorough review! It’s undoubtedly a very nice system, that sadly fell victim of poor management decisions. I wonder what were they thinking, if they even thought something at all!

[@jonathanwhiteside6092]

The CX78 has been re-released as the CX78+ and also the wireless (Yes, 9 pin compatible) CX78+ is available for pre-order. From a collecting PoV I personally have a Concerto cart, which is an SD card solution, but supposedly the 7800 GD cart is the best as it also offers RGB out and also supports Rikki & Vikki which has rather special hardware, however it is quite expensive compared to the Concerto price these days. Love my 7800, it's a great console.

[@MrLurchsThings]

I could never get a UAV working in my 7800 😔 Poked at it for ages it’s no joy. It sat on the shelf in pieces for ages. Pulled it back out and dropped in a TFW8B composite mod and it sprang back to life. But I suspect the UAV video quality would be better.

[@ctrlaltrees]

I do need to at least try a basic composite mod on my "broken" consoles just to confirm that it's not a problem with the UAV, but I didn't have any spare. Thanks for the reminder!

[@beastworm]

About the PD board..... I modded an SNES JR like a year ago with a similar board, so now it's running on USB-C too :D

[@justinmijnbuis]

2 different boards with the exact same fault after applying the video mod; did you test the boards before any modifications?

[@schtive81]

It's funny that you mention the lack of a light gun. I remember seeing magazine ads for a game called Alien Brigade that showcased an image for a bright orange light gun that looked like the Atari XE light gun. I am not a big 7800 fan. So I have no idea if that light gun peripheral was ever released. Also, the name 7800 was a combination of 5200 + 2600. Even though the hardware really had nothing to do with the 5200.

[@mattcole6230]

Whaf a great episode! A bit of everything and reslly interesting.

[@domramsey]

Great in-depth video! I often wonder what might have happened if Tramiel had stayed at Commodore. I guess we would have ended up with an Atari Amiga and maybe both companies would still be around.

[@ctrlaltrees]

It does make you wonder. Seems Atari were very keen on the Amiga project until it was snatched from under their noses - in fact if it weren't for their financial support of the project early on the Amiga might never have existed!

[@BuckEtheAlien]

So curious what this console would be like with that wavetable sound chip.

[@ctrlaltrees]

Agreed 100%, it's such a shame. Same with the ST's original intended sound chip too (I really should make a video about that...)

[@BuckEtheAlien]

@@ctrlaltrees yes, make that video please.

[@MSThalamus-gj9oi]

That is Count Binface you're listening to while you're removing the power connector about halfway through the video, rifght? :D

[@marccaselle8108]

Was the 7800 asterioids built into the system? In the US or Europe only?

[@classicpontiac37]

Just out of curiosity. Im sure some of you 7800 fans will watch this video. I have a loose working copy of tank command for the 7800 that I bought as a kid in a discount bin. I don't have the original box but I understand it's one of the rarest games for the 7800. What should I list it for on eBay as a starting bid if i decide to sell it? I don't currently see any copies on eBay.

[@RlsIII-uz1kl]

Watching a usbc being used as a replacement is wild.

[@Miasmark]

I have always wondered where the rights to Midnight Mutants[the story I had heard was that the game managed to secure the right to grandpa's likeness but not the Munster's which was why it is never mentioned] I dug down that rabbit hole awhile back and determined that it was probably sold to Acclaim[or was it Accolade?] and when they went bankrupt their assets was sold off to various companies. Might be the same situation with No On Lives Forever that it was left off the sale documents so no one knows who owns the rights to it anymore.

[@tejp5101]

Your experience of Ninja Golf is exactly how golf is in real life.

[@nysaea]

man what a journey!

[@thegreatjonzini]

Was all the game footage emulation? It looked super clean for svideo? Great video as always 🥂

[@ctrlaltrees]

Yes, sorry, I should have mentioned this and it wasn't my intention to mislead - the video was more about the story of the 7800 than a review of the UAV per se. I captured all of the gameplay footage from my MiSTer just for the sake of quality, ease of capture and consistency and also to keep me busy while I was waiting for parts (and the replacement console) to arrive! That said, the UAV does some kind of "pixel reclocking" magic (that I don't really understand) and the output is incredibly sharp. Sometimes it is difficult to differentiate between emulated footage and the UAV run through a good upscaler.

[@thegreatjonzini]

@@ctrlaltrees no worries. I also wondered how the uav handled the backwards compatibility 2600 games?

[@jameyspielt]

I saw the first console i ever owned.. then i saw the british guy... then I heard his accent.. then I subscribed. This was a 2 second thing.

[@NorthWay_no]

Tower Toppler seems to be using NTSC color(!) artefacting. Jinks sounds exactly like Gauntlet at the beginning. But you didn't say anything about how the graphics chip work! Also, there should be some interesting modern "homebrew" games to try out. It feels like a machine that was never even close to showing what it could do.

[@ctrlaltrees]

I reckon I'll do a whole video on the homebrew side, there's just so much to cover and this one was very long as it was. As for the graphics chip, I really did try to get my head around the inner workings but decided it wasn't something I could speak about with any authority. The "7800 Software Guide" on 8bitdev has a huge in-depth article on it which makes for fascinating reading.

[@NorthWay_no]

@@ctrlaltrees You'll be doing something on the modern developer expansions with sound expansions and high-score saver etc? I really should buy one, but I don't really know enough about which one and from where...

[@UncleAwesomeRetro]

Nice video and interesting story :)

[@ctrlaltrees]

Thanks!

[@DoomDarenxbourg]

It basically was the first mainstream system that was backwards compatible, as it could play 2600 games.

[@Micro_Repairs]

First console with backwards compatibility? The SEGA Mark III, backwards compatible with the SG-1000, released in Japan in 1985, before the May 1986 release of the 7800. Maybe if they didn’t sit on it for two years ;)

[@Meebzorp5200]

I collected 7800 games and hardware back in the 90s and was able to play most games for it and I gotta say it's a bit shit of a system. And that's not even comparing it to its contemporaries like the NES or SMS. A new 7800+ console, high game prices, and new homebrew titles baffle me. To each their own. :)

[@ctrlaltrees]

Ha! One man's shit is another man's historical curiosity 🤣

[@Meebzorp5200]

@@ctrlaltrees I did jump to play this video because I find the 7800's historical significance fascinating since it didn't make much sense back then and now.

[@datassetteuser356]

Love the 7800. Would have better served Atari to focus on that one and forego the XEGS altogether. (Which I also love as a collector, but it was just a one-way street for the company) Thanks for another nice video. If you ever happen to get the GameDrive for the Atari, let me know if it'll work with the UAV-modded one. I seem to be the only person having a problem with that combination 😅, but just asking out of curiosity. Cheers!

[@ctrlaltrees]

I'm definitely interested in the GameDrive. I would have picked one up for the video but I already spent for too much time and money on this one! 😅 I think if I were forced to choose I'd actually go the other way and pick the XE, but that's just personal preference I guess. Releasing the two side by side didn't really make a lot of business sense IMO.

[@AndrewHelgeCox]

Ignoring sheer resolution, this thing seems to have had better graphics hardware for games than an ST(up to FM) 😳

[@RyanMercer]

Needs more Alan Alda.

[@rillloudmother]

i played 2600 pitfall so much as a kid.

[@wildman1978101]

Can confirm that Hat Trick is a great 2 player game.

[@Mrshoujo]

It's supposed to be Atari 2600 compatible, but I bet Kool-Aid Man, Entombed, & He-Man still won't work on it. (They don't work on any 4 switch 2600 or the Jr.) They do work on an original 6 switch 2600 & I'd like to know why.

[@ctrlaltrees]

That's very interesting, I wasn't aware of this. I'll investigate - thanks!

[@therealyogibear2k225]

I like the 7800, but for me the best output is emulation. I emulate all my retro consoles for 3 man reasons. 1, I dont have to ever worry about having to change capacitors which i could never do to save my life as my eyes are shot. 2, I always get the perfect video output and 3 i can play any compatible game I want on it without it costing me any money, or any room space unnecessarily. I use an xbox one controller for my Atari. I am playing combat at the moment and thoroughly enjoying it. I think next will be pitfall 1 and 2. And if you think that I am a dirty pirate for downloading the games and not buying the originals, then to this i say if i was giving the money back to the original programmers of the game, then yes i agree. But when i am giving my money to greedy people who are in it for profit only then no, it's definitely not piracy, it's preservation.

[@micv2]

I haven't modded my console because the GD7800 has an RGB output. Thanks 👍

[@ctrlaltrees]

I really need to check out the GameDrive, I have the Jaguar version and it's fantastic. The RGB output is incredibly clever. Unfortunately not all of my monitors have RGB input, so composite and s-video are much more useful to me. 😊

[@micv2]

Thanks for the answer. GD7800 also offers 5 sound chips (fpga) and the quick save function. Search on AtariAge „Trebors 7800 ROM PROPack“ 👍🙏

[@root42]

Doesn't help with original cartridges though, and homebrews, e.g. all the Melody based Atari 2600 games.

[@preferredimage]

The music from Ballblazer is a banger! weirdly, the the best version is the atari version, which IMHO is better than the C64! (also check out the remix Ballblazer (feat. Beastie Boys) by Romeo Knight) :)

[@ctrlaltrees]

Wait... what!? Just listening to this and it's an absolute banger! 😅

[@ShishakliAus]

28:25 I know that feel :(

[@reggiebenes2916]

GCC were amazingly talented. Unfortunately they had to deal with Warner which was led by people that had no idea what they were doing, and ended up with Jack Tramiel, who was pretty clueless himself and also a total sleazeball as a businessman.

[@freeculture]

What went wrong? Tramiel. That audio... Pole Position II sounds the same as Enduro, from a decade earlier. This is a post Amiga console, a pc that simply swept everybody else back then in graphics and sounds for a decade. Atari's only advantage since its original console was its huge pallete of colors, but that was it. Resolution always sucked, and the audio is horrible. Frankly, i prefer the Coleco Vision and then the Famicom which basically cheated by offloading anything better to the cartridge (except in the Nes which stupidly crippled it) giving it a very long lifetime. Its clear Tramiel hated this console.

[@pinebarrenpatriot8289]

The 7800 would of done better if their library wasnt focused around older already released arcade titles. It needed more original games like Ninja Golf and Dark Chambers and shoukd made sequels for them like the NES did with games like Mega-Man or Ninja Gaiden. What could of been? 🤔

[@johneygd]

I never knew about the atari 7800 until a few years back. Now while it is true that the nes was became a huge success i wich atari just couldn’t stand a chance against it. I actually found it very very interesting that there are a few official nintendo games on it, something i absolutely never ever throught to ever happen, in fact i throught that there would be atleast some clones or rip offs from nintendo games on it but not official ones. But because of a deal with nintendo from the past, it just so happened. Heck atari did even put nintendo games into it’s advertisement posters and brochures wich might could,ve formed a thread against nintendo. But because of all these discoveries, i do love atari alot ever since. Before that i was always a big nintendo guy.

[@nickwallette6201]

Wow. Competition between Atari and Commodore was fierce -- primarily, which company could make the poorest decisions that would ultimately hasten their demise. ;-)

[@ctrlaltrees]

Absolutely that - people like to argue over which was best and end up overlooking the fact that both companies were completely and utterly incompetent 🤣

[@fenixlolnope361]

Ugh I wish they would’ve just released it in 84. Or just not bothered and fixed the 5200 controller

[@RlsIII-uz1kl]

If they hadn't waited 2 years, we could've had a much different historical record.

[@kurtwinter4422]

The same bad management that killed this product was also responsible for the problems at Commodore.

[@AndrewHelgeCox]

What did Atari put their energy into while not selling these for two years?

[@SebsPlaceYT]

I always considered the 7800 to be an ugly cheap looking thing, but it's actually a lovely looking board with terrific backwards compatibility. I feel bad for the hate I put on it now. Fantastic video, really insightful, thanks.

[@softwarerendering]

weird story at what timestamp?

[@loganjorgensen]

You guys got lucky with the gamepads since the joysticks aren't great, Atari could never seem to make an arcade stick no matter how many years passed Eg. NES Advantage.😒 Gamepads were the future, compact and easy to operate in an ergonomic two-handed grip. Hard to say what the light gun plan was other than one existing by Atari and bundled with the XEGS. I don't know if I'd call a lack of backwards compatibility a "mistake", it was more just something consumers wanted even when it was unreasonable on a technical level Ie. a Betamax tape playing on a VHS player.😄 The POKEY chip produces some really nice sound, that is really the biggest mistake hamstringing 7800 games to have 2600 sound by default. Been a real pain in the aftermarket to find originals, replacements, and FPGA solutions much like Nintendo's extensive list of mapper-chips and the like. Yep dumb, dumb, dumb, was just watching a similar story about Capcom overreacting to a SF2 mod kit too bitd. I wonder if that department is simply full of billing lawyers lol, rather than someone that can recognize the value of production expansion. At least they came to their senses in the end. Quite the journey you took there heh.😏 Altogether the 7800 is a strong solid console platform, it actually doesn't suffer heavy sprite flicker like the NES and SMS often do, just needed more game titles to show off that strength. I ended up going the flash cart route(Dragonfly) since it was just too hard to find many cheaply and the games I wanted were high dollar. Got a sweet arcade stick from an Atari Age forum member, just like Atari should have made. Been meaning to make a pinout adapter, the SMS gun is compatible.😉

[@Gukworks]

Wish I kept mine.

[@iballa2]

There wasn't an EU market then!

[@fenixlolnope361]

Connect it to a VCR lmao

[@Yesterzine]

Nintendo viewers, yes Tower/Nebulous is also Castelion.

[@ctrlaltrees]

No u

[@victormarland9871]

You paid HOW MUCH for a 7800?

[@bretl8130]

or get roms and forget this mess

[@thirstyCactus]

Pokey is the most abrasive, awful sound chip of all time. What a shame.

[@aurthorthing7403]

...We're in the 21st century.....

[@DaveVelociraptor]

Speak for yourself!

[@ctrlaltrees]

Composite and S-Video most certainly isn't though 😝

[@michaelbryant4703]

What a waste of time and electricity...

[@goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061]

Got too triggered seeing original equipment hacked up with modern hardware; To me, either your into the original machine(s) and are excited about that, or you may as well use an emulator! Every time this happens there is one less "retro" system surviving. I get when people are persuing some childhood dream and boosting their original hardward back as they would have "in the day", but the feeling of sadness seeing a stock system hacked up to essencially a modern system gives me personally "the sads". For those who don't understand this, imagine if an artist decided to "improve" an 17'th century copy of the Mona Lisa. Sure they can try to keep the spirit of the original painting, sure it was always not the original, but we just lost a priceless item (since its now a 20th century remake); Sure there are way more 7800's than there are century's old Mona Lisa's forgerys and the 7800 is more commerce than art, but, with everyone thinking "I'll just mod mine" it won't be long before no one is experiencing the original-hardward and everyone might as well just get a modern PC instead (aka, this isn't retro, it's modernisation and possibly anti-retro). Anyway, respect to what others decide to do with their own stuff, it's none of my buisness, but definitely not staying here to watch it happen.

[@ctrlaltrees]

I appreciate the level headed response. My justification as always is that this console will actually get used now whereas it would have sat on a shelf before, and ultimately these things were made to be played with. But of course there are also great options like emulation these days if people just want to check out the games.

[@Meebzorp5200]

The 7800 is by no means a Mona Lisa. There's really nothing special about it. It failed for very good reasons. Same for the 5200 and Jaguar. Would you feel the same way about a modded Tiger handheld? For hardware purists, that's what videogame museums are for.

[@goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061]

@@Meebzorp5200 I'd feel the same way for any system. It is a product of its era, either you have real affection/nostalgia for what it is or you would be kinder to leave the systems for those who do like them. Original equipment is rare these days and due to KZbin 'hack it up for content" channels, it's rarer still. Though respect, if people want this then I'm not one to stand in the way of others, but doesn't mean I don't lament to see people hacking up classic consoles (though, your right, at least this isn't a stock incredibly rare one of a kind Atari... though that is only my own personal copium run by the part of me that says 'hey, this isn't YOU, this is others')

[@goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061]

@@ctrlaltrees gotta do you, respect to your choices. Steelmaning your position, better hacked that in the garbage (and not everyone can afford to keep a CRT).

[@Meebzorp5200]

@@goddessesstartrekonlinefle3061 I loved my Atari 520ST as it helped give me the career I have today. Rees has done mods to the ST series and I celebrate that because it helps the system be usable for someone, either for himself or others. Any retro hardware that now works or works better is a big win for me.

[@juggalo4life247]

Ive been gaming starting before the 2600,and I absolutely love retro games. seeing new projects with older hardware or software makes me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside!🫠

[@homelessEh]

i had one and it sucked. had over 40 games for it only 1 actually ever got played .. robotron .. all the other games were no buano i became friends with let down at an early age. sure they were CHEAP games but.. eh.......eh..... really get what you paid for game wise back then.