Smart Scope BATTLE! SAME Night, SAME Targets! Can the Seestar S30 BEAT its big brother?

A much requested video! Let's compare the end results of the Seestar S30 and the Seestar S50, when they've been pointed at the same target for the same amount of time on the same night!
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[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

My Patreon: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek My Merch Store: cuiv.myspreadshop.com/ PixInsight Ultimate Guide Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnTSpYWfiq6Kqsk For any affiliate link purchases, make sure to accept cookies if prompted! Also, browser plugin "Honey" may steal commissions from creators if you interact with it (even just clicking on "OK" to the "No coupons found" message)! Get the Seestar S30: tinyurl.com/4yzvuzje or tinyurl.com/yfkawdd9 (ZWO) or bit.ly/3O7WvGc (Agena) or bit.ly/4hJ79AN (HPS) or tinyurl.com/3nznjk96 (FLO) or tinyurl.com/24xek2tz (Astroshop EU) or tinyurl.com/2kzy93v9 (All Star Telescope) Seestar S50 Smart Telescope: tinyurl.com/43r5pd6y (ZWO) or bit.ly/49mQhLJ(Agena) or bit.ly/45k7J1b (HPS) or tinyurl.com/2zanj43e (FLO) or tinyurl.com/227p6h97 (Astroshop EU) or tinyurl.com/b6ekdycr (All Star Telescope) Dwarf III Smart Telescope: bit.ly/3SyChXu or tinyurl.com/y5r2pyjr (All Star Telescope) Amazon affiliate: amzn.to/49XTx01 Agena affiliate: bit.ly/3Om0hNG High Point Scientific affiliate: bit.ly/3lReu8R First Light Optics affiliate: tinyurl.com/yxd2jkr2 All-Star Telescope affiliate: bit.ly/3SCgVbV Astroshop eu Affiliate: tinyurl.com/2vafkax8

[@luboinchina3013]

Next review please SeestarS50 VS SeestarS50 but Standard mode vs Mosaics 1.1x to get rid of those pesky bad corners.

[@Philoso4]

I live in Canada and purchased an S30 today. I appreciate what you're saying about the final clarity of S50 imaging being better but it's not an issue for me. Being able to locate things in the sky live is more important to me than a perfect memory image which really represents many many minutes blended together with editing processes. What I also like about the S30 is it's possible applications for scenery/nature photography. Add these features to the very affordable price and it's my clear choice. That's why I chose the S30, for flexibility over a few debatable degrees of perfection. Thank you for your excellent presentation of the bare facts.

[@KeithFujiyoshi]

I appreciate your honest comparison of those two smart telescopes and looking forward to seeing with Dwarf 3, S30, S50😊

[@Dewclaws]

I was about to ask the same thing.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

D3 vs S50 (mainly) coming soon!

[@1982craigyboy]

@@CuivTheLazyGeekwould really like to see the S30 included in that as that’s what I believe a lot of new comers like myself will have their eye on

[@jimmurphy6095]

Cuiv, you are by far the busiest lazy geek I know of. The color correction and background rendition on the s50 is spot on. The S30 looks too red, not enough blue, and blotchy. If you take the S50 out of it's case, it packs quite easily in a standard sized suitcase along with your clothes for cushioning...

[@eaquilae30]

The S50 is amazing. Thanks for this and for the processing explanation. I would like to see your take on S50 vs Dwarf 3.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Coming soon! (already available to B5 and B0 Patreons :p)

[@SoukBae]

I also wonder how much difference EQ mode makes for D3. I heard that S50 or S30 doesn’t have EQ mode, right?

[@johnpinto5095]

Thanks!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Wow John! Thanks so much for your support!!

[@johnpinto5095]

@@CuivTheLazyGeek I hope Apple and KZbin left you a few $$$ after all their commission fees 😱

[@marvinwhisman3333]

Great side-by-side comparison. Appreciate you taking the time to compare these so thoroughly. I already own the S50 and have been considering the S30. This really helps make that decision.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Glad this is helpful Marvin!

[@sianikolaou5440]

Love this comparison with a torture test! It's definitely helping me choose S50 over S30, although I do want to see the comparison with the Dwarf 3.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Comparison with D3 coming soon!

[@anttiautere3663]

That was a good battle, especially: 'same urban night, same targets', thanks. I'm hungry for more videos like this. I guess there will appear a lot of smart telescopes in the coming year(s). Keep us posted!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thanks! Yes, I wanted to keep everything equal! I'll do a similar D3 vs S50 battle soon!

[@uweguedde1778]

I have the S50 since one year and i love it. I am every time surprised about the wonderful results. Normally I used a 8“ Newton with DSLR and ZWO Asiair plus. The results are better, but i nead so much more time for mount the telescope, and the weight is much more. And for traveling the S50 is wonderful. Last week I made holiday in Denmark. Its a bortle 2 area. The result was amazing. Now I will take a look at the comparing the S50 and the Dwarf3. Thank you for your great videos. Many regards from Germany

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I know the feeling! Those smart scopes are great for a quick relaxing frustration free evening!

[@perry3928]

Thanks Cuiv for the comparison. I love my s50 for a quick view of the heavens when I only have a few hours of clear skies, while my 8se Sadly waits for better weather.

[@grantw1465]

I have already invested in S30 pre-order back in early November '24 and simply can't curb my enthusiasm... so excited... love these videos... hope to receive my S30 soon... 🎉

[@stevenlarkin1706]

There is nothing wrong with releasing the S30, however releasing an S100 will leave ZWO unable to meet demand for such a device.

[@paulschrader9975]

Thank you!! I'm totally new to Astrophotography except for some moon shots with a Nikon P950. Your video was clear, concise and easy to follow.

[@michaeledmonds3027]

Great work as usual, Cuiv. Displayed on my phone, the Pacman nebula image of the S30 had a darker background and a lot more red than the S50. The Pleiades images looked very similar. The S50 looked cleaner with a bit more detail on both targets. Thanks, Michael

[@johnpinto5095]

Thanks for this! I plan to own both for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Clear skies!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Sounds like a great plan - hope you get to enjoy them both!

[@busload_uk]

Great comparison! I think they both have their pros and cons for sure - the main advantage of the S30 IMO is its price and portability, as well as the guide camera. For those reasons I think the Dwarf 3 might be a good competitor to both the S30 and the S50. The smart telescope market is an exciting place right now!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Absolutely agree!

[@deep_space_dave]

Thanks for the comparison Cuiv! I feel if the S30 had a slightly better camera it could have done a little better but I guess that is a part of the price cuts. Still both robotic scopes are really impressive in their own way! I really wish ZWO would come out with an SeeStar S50 Pro version that uses an IMX678 or IMX676 sensor! Clear Skies mate!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yes! An S50+ or Pro would be awesome!

[@barthennin6088]

Perfect! This comparison is exactly what I was looking for!

[@Gristle111]

I went for the one i can get! S50 is it... ill have to live with it.. Picked her up today :) Clear sky tonight. Can’t wait.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Enjoy!

[@anthonyt4622]

Great review. I think the only reason you would get the S30 is portability or price. Thanks for the processing comparison which again reinforces why I need Pixinsight. I've asked for it from Santa.

[@astrohops7183]

Thank you for another great video Cuiv. 🙏I’m currently tending towards the S50, but will wait for your comparison with the Dwarf3.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Coming soon! :) Thank you for your support as always!

[@DanielWMedeiros]

Thank you very much for this comparison, I was looking for it!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

You're welcome, glad it was helpful!

[@drunk_astronomy]

You know what would be a neat idea. Imagine if they made a Seastar hub and what it would do is connect multiple sea stars at once. It would be cool if you can toggle between the different scopes via the app without having to literally change the network or have multiple scopes to work together in array mode for data acquisition. Large scale mosaics or just getting a lot of data quickly on a target would be insane. If I worked at ZWO on their design team, that’s what I would build.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That would be super cool!

[@jacoblee679]

I believe Dwarflab have something along those lines in the pipeline.

[@michaellehmann3325]

Thank you for all the valuable information from Tokyo.👍👍 Greetings from cloudy northern Germany and a Merry Christmas.🎄❄️☃️❄️

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! Happy holidays!

[@MrPurle]

I'm new to all of this, so I'm currently hoovering up *ALL* the content - your channel has been particularly useful! :) I know you run an astrophotography channel, but the S30 with the wide angle lens for day time is of interest to me - in an ideal world I'd like to own more than one smart telescope :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Hahaha yes at some point I need to test the wide angle lens!

[@carolsantulis2874]

Thanks Cuiv. I will be looking forward to the S30 vs Dwarf 3 comparison. Dwarf 3 seems to have the better sensor, but I have not been impressed with the images coming out of it.

[@codyc.4830]

Another great video thank you. I'm new to all this and live in the US. I waited for the sale and purchased the S50 for $449 .00. SO fae I am really enjoying it I just need to get a handle on imagine processing.

[@maurodoria1665]

Thank you very much for the review all the way from Rio de Janeiro full of clouds in the months of November and December. Please consider making a video showing how you dribble clouds while taking astro photos

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'll let you know once ZWO release the CloudPiercer(tm)!

[@Naztronomy]

Great comparison, Cuiv! I've been using both and since I do a ton of outreach, I've been enjoying the S30. Although I've only had one star party with the S30 vs a dozen with the S50, I could totally feel how easy the S30 is in comparison. And the public doesn't notice any resolution differences between the two so the S30 is the one I'll be taking to future star parties (along with one of my SCTs or shorter refractors for other objects in space). I'm also working on a comparison with the DWARF 3. I'm gonna have to race you but I don't think the clouds will cooperate with me :)

[@waynewheaton3210]

Cuiv, I remember when you took some time off. Man, you're back and killing it. I think maybe AI is generating these video while you sleep. 😂 Great work! Channels like yours make this hobby more enjoyable. Thanks!

[@GRILL332]

Great comparison as usual. Thanks so much!

[@raghuramanr8070]

S30 launched just as I was about to make my decision and I decided to go in for s50 because I felt the quality might not be up to it and today I am happy to be proved right.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

The S30 is amazing for the price, but the S50 is still better!

[@WoldsWhite]

A great way to test - thank you 👏

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Cheers and clear skies!

[@philipduggan60]

Excellent reviews... very informative thank you

[@roguecommandant1431]

I just got a s50 glad I made the right decision, should be here in the next week, greetings from Mexico!

[@puppiTube]

I knew before watching that the S50 would win. Hands down. The S30 is a great bit of kit, sure. These are not meant to replace you edge14hd, no. That is silly. But as a fun thing, or entry for a new hobbiest or even a guy like me with substantial gear, it's a great bit of kid. I own the S50. And it's great. For what it is, marvelous. So happy with it. I too use a L-Extreme and a bubble mount (you know the one) and a 3d printed insert shroud. And I get similar (or better, sorry lol) results to yours. I love your channel. Btw, I am holding out for a ZWO mount that will handle my edge14hd. Maybe a pipe dream .. and I won't wait forever. But I would like one :-) Maybe you could have a word and light a fire under their bums haha

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep, S50 is great for what it is, and so is S30 for that matter!

[@viewintospace]

Thanks Cuiv, you kind of proved what my suspicion was - but I could not test it as I have no S50.... There is something more - and that is the moon! Based on the low resolution I really dislike the moon on the S30 and I'm sure it will be much better on the S50!

[@DaveyDamage1886]

Can we see a similar video with the Dwarf3 included? Looking to purchase my first telescope soon, and from what I've seen so far the Dwarf3 is looking like the best choice

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'll have a Seestar vs Dwarflab video soon :)

[@DaveyDamage1886]

I think you've just released that video 10 minutes ago, so I'm going to give that a watch now, cheers 👍

[@RKClements]

Hey Cuiv - Great work! Can you do a 'shootout' between the S30 and the Dwarf 3 next? That would be cool!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It will be more between the S50 and the D3 (the D3 is just better than the S30 while being more expensive) but it's coming!

[@turmanlegalsolutions]

Great video! You always do amazing work on your videos (and astrophographs)! I really appreciate the amount of work you put into these. In the future, would you consider doing a shootout between the S50 vs. S30 vs. Dwarf 3?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! There will be a shootout between S50 and D3 (as I feel the D3 more directly competes with the S50 than it does the S30 based on this test) released soon!

[@jonteefey6827]

I have the S50 and really enjoy it. But like you said.... it all depends on the mission! They both have their niche!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Absolutely - they each have their strengths and weaknesses!

[@lordman]

Nice video! Looking for the S30 vs Dwarf III comparison :D

[@AntonioPena1]

Cuiv, thanks again for a great video demonstrating capabilities of both, I use S50, I’m happy with it, the results are great, in seconds you can start imaging, unfortunately latest version broke Equatorial mode, I know as not official supported but was great able to do better without rotation effect, I guess we have to look now for the Dewarf 3 that officially supports Equatorial mode and has many other features, better image sensor. Since software upgrade really no happy using it anymore. I guess S30 neither works on equatorial mode.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

The D3 is excellent as well, will have a comparison soon!

[@josephtannenbaum8696]

I have an S50 and ordered a Dwarf III.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Having both is honestly a great combination

[@NJM1948]

Excellent comparison Cuiv - I am in the market for an easy to use small telescope that takes excellent images. Looks like the ST50 is the better of the two. Also very interested in the ZWO set up you mentioned right at the end. Be good if you could highlight that rig and compare with the ST50. I hope it is a go to scope and very easy to use!! Looking forward to seeing this and also the Dwarf 3 vs ST50 vs ST30

[@Vic-eq5]

Have the D2 for holidays and s50 for home.both are brilliant

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Nice!

[@davesworld6206]

Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison. I currently have the S5O and the S30 on back order. I plan on using both to easily move them around my backyard and get multiple images the same night in less time without using framing (mosaic) mode. I feel the framing mode is not consistent or reliable for imaging in the S50 and if I can capture the full field of view for more objects without framing mode by also using the S30 it’s worth it. Also, seeing the new carrying case that comes with the S30 easily fits into a backpack it is way more transportable, to walk and set up at the park, take on the plane, etc. I won’t be getting my S30 until mid February at the earliest so I will have to wait to do my own comparison.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

The carry case for the S30 is small, light, and overall really good!

[@BrianKushner]

I think the greater the mosaic the more missed frames on the S50. Hopefully ZWO can address this somehow. Thanks for the comparison.

[@mercury7]

Great video… your results were exactly as I expected… I think I would suggest people spend the extra money for s50 or if you want widefield then go with dwarf3…. Or if you have deeper pockets then the vespera 2 will give you best of both worlds

[@azzaqmb]

I'm looking forward to doing some testing with the s30 piggy backed on my main, in particular doing some longer exposures (1~2 min subs) using the APL software to see the results.

[@StudioVoodooMusic]

I have a Celestron 4SE which is just right for my casual level of experience and interest. It works great for the moon and planets, and is small enoough to be portable and easy to more. For the same reasons, I think I'd get an S30 for DSOs, since it would be something I could take with me when traveling, or when I feel inspired, but wouldn't feel bad about not using it either. I love that these new digital telescopes are 100% self-contained including the image processing software. To do astrophotography in pieces would cost thousands of dollars and hundreds of extra hours to replicate.

[@dbabyzo]

All I've had is success with my seestar s50... I have a Celestron nexstar 127 and have a 6 inch GSO r/c OTA with the skywatcher mount ... the latter two Scopes are great but so complex s50 is so much easier

[@Ratrapppp]

Very cool video, thanks!

[@jondrew55]

I told my wife I wanted the S50 for Christmas. Of course I ordered it and now it's sitting wrapped up and I'm dying to use it. I saw no point in going the S30 route since the package isn't that much smaller and she smaller aperture has to be a bad thing (right?). With the mosaic mode now I should be able to have fun in the back yard in light polluted Orlando. I actually have several other scopes including an old C-8, but never got any photography gear to hook up to it. Assuming I get some decent use from the S50 I may re look at updateing my existing gear with a goto mount and camera, pointer etc. Or maybe I'll just be lazy and enjoy the simplicity of the S50.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It's so cool to see adults looking forward to Christmas like kids do, waiting to use the smartscope :)

[@VictorRoblesPhotography]

I Like ZWO but still the SeeStars don’t convince me at all. The Dwarf 3 is a great smart telescope at the right price and especially the right travel size and getting better all the time. And with equatorial mode on top of all. Thanks for this review like always.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I'll have a S50/D3 comparison soon :)

[@VictorRoblesPhotography]

@ I watch all your videos, keep up the good work.

[@TrungNguyen-uf8cv]

The S50 box takes my entire Natgeo canvas messenger bag. it's huge, wish there's an anti-shock box just for the scope and the tripod I can throw it anywhere

[@lionelmeyer6986]

Tk you sir ! ,Well, now waiting for a big EQ mount like AM5 and easy to use like Seestar or Vespera's. Above all instruments, refractor, Mak, APN, only one button: On/off. May be the Origin, but what for planetary... Have a nice sky !

[@peterwoolliams1283]

An S50 with a bigger sensor would seem to be the best way for seestar to go next…. Detail without stitching… and enabling EQ to avoid the rotation triangles.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

I agree - S50 Pro with 678 or 585 sensor and eq mode would be great!

[@IsisofDurnham]

I think most folks are actually waiting for the S50 "pro " with better components and better optical array . What I don't understand is why none of the big ones ( celestron ,Vespera, ZWO and DWARF at this time ) have released an "all in one " solution , i.e. a smart telescope which is also suitable for visual observation with interchangeable eyepieces , filters etc.

[@chlrsnj326]

Hell, I want them both now.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

hahaha can't have everything, but you could get them both ;)

[@DeadBen.]

The S50 was my introduction to astrophotography. It is very cool, but was simply a gateway into a much more expensive world in my case. I have since bough a Redcat 61, AM5, ASI2600, and a bunch of other stuff...all in time for the temperature to drop to -20 C. Ugh...at least my wife merely shrugged her shoulders.

[@garyseven777]

Be bought both now because I wanted an S30 , but it won’t come until March! So I bought an S50 that I will hopefully get before Xmas. ❤

[@shilohbridgewater6407]

I would have picked up an svbony refractor or similar to start building a full rig, instead of getting another seestar and having two of them, myself. To each their own💜🥰

[@garyseven777]

@@shilohbridgewater6407 Funny how quick things change...just canceled my S30 and will play with the S50 first...

[@garyseven777]

@@shilohbridgewater6407I find your views compelling and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter....😊

[@natmardan]

Excellent video ...I will ask to Santa about the S50

[@greggarw]

I would be interested to see what you think of astro panel the add on for Photoshop for processing some of the photos. Particularly from the ones on review. Enjoy the channel keep it up.

[@batsonelectronics]

just got a new S50 from B & H for $450 with 2 day shipping and a free water bottle. For the extra $100, it was a no brainer.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That's a great deal!

[@regressumdiabolus]

I've spent the last 2 weeks agonising over this choice. I've watched every video I could find on the topic, asking Reddit, and the whole shebang. Literally 4 hours before this video released, I decided on the S50. It's on its way to me right now and I feel vindicated in my decision. Thanks Cuiv, wish you'd released this a while earlier :) As always, a huge fan of your content. A question, how big is the difference if you take the individual images and stack them yourself before processing ? Does it allow you to recover more of the FOV of the S50's image ?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

You'll have a lot of fun with the S50! Sorry I didn't release this earlier ;) As for individual stacking, yes that can work to recover more FOV, but that recovered FOV would be very low SNR

[@andyrawlins]

Very interesting thanks and both scopes are very impressive for the price. Are you not comparing apples to pears though? Looking at the detail and noise of a single object at the same 'size' means that you are zooming in the C30 far more than the C50 so you would expect more noise and less detail. Comparing absolute noise and detail at he same image scale, say 300%, might give a closer comparison. Saying that, I agree that the more expensive scope looks to make the better image - which you would hope. I'm not really sure how you would compare these objectively as they do different things. I guess you could capture half a dozen targets for each that were best suited to their own pixel scale and subjectively decide which produced the best set of images. But that would be a lot of work! I think you've easily done enough to show us the sort of capabilities these two telescopes have so thanks as always :)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It was a much requested comparison:) in terms of SNR I was expecting the same since we get the same photons per pixel per second, and the same photons per entire sensor per second for both. So I wasn't expecting the S30 to be noisier. Fewer details of course. But not noisier, and the different color balance is also a bit of a mystery. In the end the only objective way is to compare the results vs the use of our precious commodity: clear sky time :)

[@richardlighthill3228]

Perhaps I missed it but I think that the reason for the S50 image having less noise than the S30 is because the 50mm lens is allowing much more light through than the S30's lens? Thanks for the comparison!

[@ull4h]

Hey Cuiv really love your videos, you’ve been an excellent teacher for this astrophotography world so thank you for that. I just have one question as it’s something another user told me and was wondering if you agreed. They said “The other option is to shoot it with the LP filter active, which is a dual-band filter for Ha and O3 signal only. The internal LP filter is great for emission nebulae, but would block out the dark clouds around the Orion, as it only passes the Hydrogen and Oxygen data in a wide pass.” When should one use the light pollution filter and when can it become a hindrance?

[@Frazec_Atsjenkov]

It's difficult to compare two telescopes with different lenses/focal lengths, and sensors. As a photographer, the result did not surprise me. If time is no issue, and if the same aperture is used, you should be able to get a more detailed image with a longer lens by knitting the images. It is just more data, and more data = more detail. The tricky thing is that time is not unlimited; and longer lenses with a larger aperture are exponentially more expensive. In this case, the sensor complicates the results a bit. But as you can see, even though the S30 has the better sensor, the lens and processing are making the difference in favor of the S50: it just has a lot more data to work with.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep that's the gist of it!

[@shilohbridgewater6407]

I'm curious if zwo will eventually continue their trend here and make an "s70" for 70mm aperture. I would be genuinely interested in investing in an easy to use smart telescope at that point if they do. Nontheless, these things have shattered my expectations time and time again. Especially when it's in the hands of an experienced astrophotographer. You legit cannot beat the seestar's performance/ user friendliness to price point.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Will be good to see where they head next! They usually play the long game, so they'll likely build an obvious upgrade path from smart scopes to full rigs

[@DonnyHooterHoot]

I'm waiting for an S100+ and equatorial mount! Great video! Peace! Kawasaki!

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Cheers!

[@12mrmajestic]

If they ever make an 80mm version, will jump!

[@peterwysoczanski9391]

need some advice - I'm a leader of a Trail Life troop of boys from 6-10 and one of our lesson plans is learning about the stars - the issue is these are kids and using a typical telescope becomes a bit complicated when they can't sit still :) - the S30 seems like the perfect fit for what I'd like to do however I just want to know if in my area its worth the investment? we are in North East Florida in Jacksonville Beach

[@NFawc]

Wonder why they don't have more involved stacking options to try and improve that side of it? ie: A dozen preset variations to try and offer a better outcome depending on the source image.

[@pdk60]

I suspected the S50 would have more detailed images due to pixel density as you explained, so I'm happy I have the S50; particularly now we have the mosaic mode. Just need some clear sky here in the UK.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

The mosaic mode has its limitations, but it's really great overall!

[@B2EMO]

Thank you for this! I'm really curious about the difference in color balance straight out of the telescope app for the Pacman, if you ever have time to investigate why that might have happened. [edit: what follows is at best confusingly phrased and at worst wrong. Sorry, I'm used to thinking about point sources.] PS to me it would make sense if the formal SNR/arcsec^2 in a very large mosaic might theoretically be about the same between the S30 and the S50, because the S50 has 2.77x light-collecting aperture (50^2 / 30^2), while the S30 has 2.77x FOV area ((1.2*2.13)/(0.72*1.28)), so their advantages cancel each other out in the context of a large mosaic. That's assuming equally good tracking though, and probably lots of other assumptions.

[@paddledogs]

With the S30 not even available yet I wonder if there will be some software updates that improve the images or if the sensor/lens are at the max? Also what's with the paragliding book?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Will be interesting to see further upgrades! I'm a paraglider pilot on the side ;)

[@johnkulczycki3021]

I noticed you have the “Astrophotography Manual” on your desk. Do you find it useful?

[@curtis39wayne16]

I debated on which one to purchase I chose S50

[@bryanisaacs9741]

I’d like to see a comparison of these two with the dwarf 3

[@Harout.Joulakian]

Is there a way to add an adapter and mount a lens/or something similar to the ones users put on top of their phones to make the S50's scope wider? Thank you

[@mercury7]

I’m also looking forward to the release of the d3 vs s50 comparison, my own verdict formulated over the last couple of months was to get both 😂 , although I have a vespera classic instead of the s50, both of those are different enough from the d3 to easily justify adding the dwarf 3 to the arsenal. It does become a bit harder to recommend just one of them but I think I am leaning toward the D3 with the idea that it would still get used frequently when owners splurge for the next robot in the pipeline….it does seem likely to me both zwo and Vaonis will release a slightly larger 70-80mm bot in the next 18 months. If they do that, the d3 still remains relevant while the s50 and vespera classic will become redundant

[@ARNFL13]

Hey Cuiv, what would cause the different color balance between the S50 & S30? I love that bright red Ha data the S30 was capturing. Would using our own filters on the S50 be able to create a similar effect depending on the filter?

[@mgscheue]

Excellent comparison. I had a hard time deciding but have an S30 on pre-order. Now I'm wondering, especially with the S50 still available for $450 at B&H. Off-topic, but I see you have the Woodhouse book. Some online reviews have said that while the content is great, the binding is poor and the book falls apart. How is your copy?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Thank you! Yeah it's a hard decision, right?! Otherwise my copy is a few years old, but the binding is holding up perfectly, I have no issues with it at all! That said a lot of the PixInsight content, while good, is slowly being superseded!

[@spookysandwich1355]

im still more in favour of getting the D3 but i cant wait to see the D3 battle it out especially against the S50 in your next video im not keen on the mosaic mode when you get all the panels lapping over each other it looks really bad and would take a ton of work to fix that and by the time you crop most of it away it kind of defeats the reason of having mosaic , no ?? also Cuiv do you know if the D3 can withstand subzero temps or even a light frost ? does it have a built in heater because i wonder how you deal with lens fogging up whilst imaging

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Will have a comparison video soon, but no idea about subzero temps...!

[@mercury7]

It does not have a heater per se, but it’s small form faster and ergonomics keep it pretty toasty from the computer,so most have not had issues with dewing etc…. As far as temps.. most on these robots perform well in to the mid 20sF, but below that gremlins in software and tracking issues may start to show…. A lot of us get around that by adding a heat source around the tripod head to help it stay a little warmer

[@spookysandwich1355]

@@mercury7 ahh good call yeh i think id put a lightweight heat strap around the body too aswell as the tripod head as long there is plenty of loose wire for flexibility while plate solving and slewing just for good measure , what do you think @merury7 ? i should imagine the unit is weather sealed ??

[@mercury7]

@@spookysandwich1355 sounds good…but don’t spend any money til you have it and have issues… Dwarf is different because the heat generated in such a small area really may keep it warm enough…. Compared the the other robots with a more spread out design

[@spookysandwich1355]

​@@mercury7 good advice cheers bud , yeh i just sold my HEQ5pro skywatcher mount to fund this as i was using my Nikon Z6 and 600mm lens running it through NINA and was pretty amazing getting 90sec to 2min subs unguided but the hobby is a richmans sport i just cant afford to add to it what with other commitments in life but the D3 seems to do everything and have everything needed like filters a 750mm focal range due to the camera and optics combined , plate solving sky atlas upto 1 min in EQ mode the whole thing is insane what it can do let alone the daytime stuff like tracking ect ect how on earth they can do all this for the pice is beyond me / i watched astrobackyard with trevor and the results he got on the horse head for 40 was mind boggling

[@peter7235]

Thank you for this great comparison. As a beginning astronomer, I have one question. As a rough percentage, how many deep sky objects are too large for the field of view of the s50 without using mosaic mode?

[@mercury7]

I don’t have a number for you but the thing is most targets look much better if they at least have a little space around them and s50 fov is pretty small…but the small fov is what allows it to perform so well with just a 2mp sensor. So it’s a trade off…. The next generation of scopes will probably have larger sensors and so it won’t be an issue anymore, in the mean time just use mosaics to frame them correctly…… on the other side of things, I would love a robot that provides a very narrow field of view with massive pixal density to better explore the really tiny stuff…. Perhaos dwarf labs could do that with the d4, supersize it and add a third lens

[@mercury7]

Just checking back in for the new video, are you going to add it today?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

The Dwarf vs Seestar video? Later this week

[@erebostd]

The S30 seems to be a great beginner scope, easy to carry and small. But the S50 is obviously better in nearly every way…

[@mistermeaargee2670]

Also your S30 is a pre-release with a newer sensor. Given the time the S50 has had in the wild, I would expect a few improvements, especially with the firmware and sensor interfacing. This might improve the pixel noise figures in time.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

True!

[@catherinemesick6018]

I have the S50 and love it. I bought it based your review of it.

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

It's such a cool scope, really!

[@CaptainDoofy]

Got my S50 on sale last week for $299 USD! So excited to get it and start using it!

[@bennybaubles]

Which store did you buy it from?

[@mgscheue]

Be careful. There apparently was a scam. I hope you do get a genuine S50.

[@CaptainDoofy]

@mgscheue hopefully. It says it's sold and shipped by the ZWO Store

[@CaptainDoofy]

@@mgscheue doing more digging. Looks to be a clone ZWO store. Just got it refunded. Thank you for the warning. Truly.

[@markscheuern5066]

@@CaptainDoofy Oh good! You're welcome. Glad you got the refund. I know it's disappointing. Hope you get one, anyway. I just ordered one for $450 while the sale is on. Really looking forward to it!

[@nikulsuthar]

I want ZWO to officially add polar alignment to S50... If not then I will get Dwarf 3...

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

That would be amazing. I really hope they consider it, they could even sell the tripod with wedge for it!

[@NirZonshine]

Hi, you've mentioned no leveling is required, but I suspect that you might get poorer tracking and more frame drops if leveling is not applied. Could it be that in your review the S30 was simply not leveled as good as the S50, and so this might caused it to loose more frames?

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

They were side by side, on the same flat surface of my rooftop, next to one another, tripod fully extended on the S50, so definitely same leveling - as for tracking, there isn't actually anything magical about AltAz, it shouldn't really try any better or worse with small alignment misadjustments!

[@demej00]

If they only had a built in Barlow and could do planetary, then they would be perfect. Until then, I will stick with my refractor and eyepieces so that I can do it all.

[@Rob-el8ti]

Question how portable are they , do they have a battery or need a plug ? Can they be charged with a power bank ? Sorry if you mentioned it

[@bobertperry]

How do things look if you use subframes from both telescopes to produce once image?

[@Julien-v5o]

Hi, is the lazy geek also a lazy paraglider ;-)

[@CuivTheLazyGeek]

Yep! 😊

[@alejandrocervantes4981]

For the same money as the S50 which other non- smart telescope would you recommend?

[@mercury7]

For same money your only other smart scope is the Dwarf3, for a non smart recommendation you would need to state your interest, ie planetary or Dso, tracked or manual etc etc…. But honestly you would be challenged to find something decent at 500 unless you go completely manual and put most of the money in to the ota

[@t1ll1s]

i bought the s30 mainly due to its form factor that is more suitable for air travel. the difference in quality between the s30 and s50 is not that huge as you make of it. none zooms looking for noise and inconsistencies on a budget telescope. as long as it gives you a pretty picture for your social media. for more accurate results you need to buy a real telescope.