Can You Use a Shotgun Mic Indoors? Shotgun vs Pencil Condenser Boom Microphones

Can you use a shotgun microphone indoors?
In this episode, we critically listen to a variety of boom microphones in a reverberant, echo-y indoor space. We record with a variety of shotgun microphones versus non-shotgun (pencil condenser) boom microphones and answer the question: Can you use a shotgun microphone indoors?
If you’d like to learn how to make great dialogue audio for your film and video projects, please have a look at my courses including processing dialogue audio in Adobe Audition and DaVinci Resolve/Fairlight, recording sound, how to use the Zoom F4, F6, F8, and F8n, and how to get the most from the Sound Devices MixPre series of recorders. Our latest courses cover Sound for Live Streaming with the ATEM Mini and an Intro to Izotope RX. school.learnlightandsound.com
Support my work creating videos by donating at Ko-Fi.com ko-fi.com/curtisjudd
Gear used or mentioned in this episode. The links below are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, Sweetwater, DVEStore, Perfect Circuit, Trew Audio or other affiliate links. As an affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases:
- Sennheiser MKH 416 Supercardioid Shotgun Condenser Microphone - Trew Audio, B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/AVgsgHZ
- RODE NTG5 Short Shotgun Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/LoGE7F4
- Deity S-Mic 2 Shotgun Condenser Microphone - Trew Audio, B&H, Amazon geni.us/deitysmic2CH
- Azden SGM-250 Professional Shotgun Microphone - Amazon geni.us/UEgA
- Sennheiser MKE 600 Shotgun Microphone - Trew Audio, B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/LQYpZr
- DPA Microphones 4017B Shotgun Microphone - B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/0au8jgx
- Audio-Technica AT4053B Hypercardioid Condenser Microphone - B&H, Amazon geni.us/at4053bCH
- Sennheiser MKH 50 Supercardioid Condenser Studio Microphone - Trew Audio, B&H, Sweetwater, Amazon geni.us/iYb065
- Sennheiser MKH 8050 Low-Profile Supercardioid Condenser Microphone - Trew Audio, B&H, Amazon geni.us/mUcDk
- Schoeps CMC641 Supercardioid Microphone Set - Trew Audio, B&H, Sweetwater geni.us/wi8r4
- SoundDevices MixPre II Series Audio Recorders - B&H, Sweetwater, Trew Audio, Amazon geni.us/O8e0
- Impact Turtle-Base C-Stands - B&H, Amazon geni.us/8a8tt
- K-Tek 36”-12’ Graphite Boom Pole - B&H, Amazon geni.us/O3aM
- Amaran 200x S LED light - B&H, Amazon, Aputure geni.us/y6ym5V
- Aputure Light Dome II soft box - Aputure, B&H, Amazon geni.us/AuMKRr
- Aputure Spotlight Mount - Aputure, B&H, DVE Store, Amazon geni.us/kfAj
- Rosco Prismatic Glass Gobo in Cool Lavender - B&H geni.us/GWKt
- Canon C70 Cinema Camera - B&H geni.us/ABYB
- Canon RF 24-70 f/2.8 lens - B&H, Amazon geni.us/qwsEs
- Panasonic GH5 camera - B&H, Amazon geni.us/InspOl
- Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 II lens - B&H, Amazon geni.us/gr47
The intro and outro music for this episode is from Musicbed - “Dynamo” by Virgil Arles. Take your films to the next level with music from Musicbed. Sign up for a free account to listen for yourself: geni.us/G7by
Copyright 2023, Curtis Judd
#Boom #Microphones #Indoor
Index
00:00 Summary
00:10 Context
02:05 Samples
05:20 Best mic overall
06:05 You can use shotgun microphones indoors
07:09 Please buy my courses

[@BongEats]

Your videos continue to be the most succinct and useful. Thank you, Curtis!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks so much! 🙏

[@insanejughead]

Agreed! Curtis is still my go-to for practicality with audio.

[@momchilyordanov8190]

I work in TV and when Covid struck, many of us (who could) were sent to work from home. I recorded my voiceovers on Olympus P4 audio recorder (that I even didn't buy, but was randomly bundled as a promotional product, when buying two of their PRO lenses for my photography hobby). I'm sure a true professional would be appalled if they see my "soundproofing" (a blanket over my head and a pillow infront of my mouth) but trust me - for several months, the national TV I work for, happily broadcasted videos with the sound recorded in that way 5 days a week :) The moral of the story is - do not overthink it. Be sure you are not recording in a noisy environment. Try limit the reflection of the sound from walls and the ceiling . And be sure you do not talk too close to the mic so the Ps and Bs sound like a thud. From there on - pretty much any microphone will do.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@chakerian]

Voiceover is a very different beast than things like location sound or seminar recording. The 416 is a popular voiceover mic, but reflections are highly controlled despite being indoors. You would never do typical voiceover in a reverberant room like in this video. When you can control everything, like doing voiceovers or foley, you can use all sorts of equipment that wouldn't be optimal otherwise.

[@TeddyRumble]

​@@chakerianI have done voice over in a sound-treated room using both a shotgun and my AT 4053b. The result were acceptable.

[@ThomasFransson]

Thank you and a big thanks to your family for taking the time to put this together Curtis.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@adimology]

as always, very informative video from you! thanks Curtis

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@georgeg6036]

I love your channel. Always helpful and informative. Thank you Curtis!

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@BreezeA]

Honestly, your channel is the only one where I click the like button before even watching the video. The value I get cannot be measured. Thanks again. Straight to the point and very purposeful.

[@curtisjudd]

🙏 Thanks!

[@HomesickMac]

Such a great walkthrough and testing Curtis, thank you Dani & Emma as well! I'm a bit biased towards the MKH50 because of other reviews as well as that Tom Buck's channel is a wonderful demo of. this particular mic, used as a boom. I was drooling for a while but the price tag couldn't justify buying it for my studio only environment, and then I watched your review of the Earthworks SR314. The forgiving proximity and the quality of sound on your voice, as well as it's also a _live_ microphone, I've saved up for it and got in now. It works great in a mildly treated room where I run my weekly guitar playing livestreams (shameless self-plug.. on Mondays...) and I've used it live on two occasions. Those were different situations sound wise. One was a festival stage where the mic nicely rejected the loud monitor, and the other one with a small PA right behind me. With some tinkering and right positioning it went great. It gives more freedom of movement than Shure SM58 of course...

[@curtisjudd]

Glad the SR314 is working well for you!

[@latrastiendameza1408]

This was very helpful to me. I’m a beginner hobbyist in video and sound. Your channel is very informative when it comes to sound. Appreciate it.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks and happy recording!

[@makeperceive]

A very useful comparison, thank you

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@ahart228]

Thanks. Good info, and appreciate the video of the mics.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@texashammer4]

SUPER helpful, thank you!!

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@charleshoughton]

Thanks for this. I’m glad to understand pencil vs shotgun better, thank Curtis, Emma and Dani!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Charles.

[@CraigHollabaugh]

Helpful review. Thanks.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@curtdp]

Good point. Thank you, Curtis Judd. In my scope, when I decide to use an in camera mic or anything a little better external, I take the Diety v-mic d4 mini and have a huge improvement. I shoot only indoors.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@bangsmash]

Super helpful as always.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@uncle-english]

I still remember that Gerald Undone first recorded with a Samson C02 microphone, then switched to a Deity S-Mic 2s, and eventually used something from Sennheiser. For him, these short microphones served his purpose well, even a “noisy” one like the Samson C02. He was willing to do some noise reduction in post-production, which made it work for him.

[@kikuua]

I believe he uses an MKH50 with the Zoom F6 now, sounds excellent with his workflow

[@uncle-english]

@@kikuua Of course, that could be the last microphone he needs to buy for his channel. A good microphone does make his job easier. However, what I want to say is that even when he used a cheaper short microphone like the C02, he still sounded pretty good. I used him as an example to show how short microphones can serve this purpose.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, yes, yes.

[@electriccatvisualarts2397]

This was really helpful Curtis. Thank you! I thought the DPA 4017B and the MKH 50 sounded great but the MKE 600 surprised me the most; it sounded really good to my ears!

[@peterpeper4837]

I was about to say the exact same things !!!! No surprises really with the DPA and MKH50 but the MKE600 stood out of the rest.

[@curtisjudd]

It is a gem.

[@2121cv]

I'm in love with this DPA 4017B every time I ear it grrr...

[@hectorhivers8180]

This video came at just the right time. I was thinking of buying an indoor microphone and this video helps a lot. Thank you very much for this video. Greetings and have a nice day

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Hector

[@chakerian]

I've used the mkh-50 outdoors a fair amount, with cinela windproofing. It's one of the tighter pattern SDCs, and performance of it on a boom is stellar.

[@curtisjudd]

Agreed. One of my favorites.

[@TeddyRumble]

I like the pick up pattern of my Rode NTG3. It's very forgiving.

[@getstew]

Just bought an MKH 50 for podcast use and potentially vo. It's been a while since I've spent a lot of money! My room is pretty well sound treated. Very excited; waiting for the arrival. Thanks for all your work, it's the best!

[@curtisjudd]

Congrats and happy recording!

[@the_black_douglas9041]

Great vid! I’ll never get tired of the Arthur Conan-Doyle benchmarking.

[@curtisjudd]

😉

[@linelevelmedia7357]

I used my trusty NTG3 for every situation I came across for the first couple years of my sound career. Everyone survived, no questions were asked. I generally reach for my MKH50 these days when I'm indoors, but the difference has never been monumental. Use whatever you have the means for, control the environment as much as you can and just do your best. Cheers!

[@curtisjudd]

Agreed! 👍

[@TheRealFawwx]

I appreciate this comment. I've been using my NTG3 on short films, documentaries, and corporate films/commercials since 2014 and I've never had any problems with it. While I have a few different pencil mics, they're "cheaper" ones with a higher noise floor compared to the NTG3. I feel like between a cheap pencil mic and a NTG3, it's probably still better to use the NTG3. That being said, I'm curious now about investing in a high end pencil mic.

[@nordfilmcompany]

Love my NTG3

[@dingdong5601]

Some broadcast tv outfits prefer the ntg3 due to it's low end flavor. No processing, just straight to live.

[@TeddyRumble]

Agreed. I still use, and enjoy, my NTG3. It's a very forgiving mic, and I think the sound is good. I've had no complaints. When I watch a film I've done sound for, I'm happy with the results of that and my 4053b. It's certainly a workman like quality. You get what you pay for, and if I earned my living, I'd pick the Schoeps CMIT 5. It has a beautiful sound. But my goodness, the price.

[@orangejjay]

By the way, I love what you're doing to light your background. ❤

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@darrenorange2982]

MKE600 was shockingly good I thought as a in between at the bang for buck? Totally agreed.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes!

[@GangGray]

very useful. Thanks for the video

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@CinePals]

During covid, I did a test with the MKH 50, the MKH 8050 and the MKH 416. For some reason, the 416 sounded tinny to my ears while the former two had a nice warmth to them. Since most of my recording is indoors anyway, I opted for the first two. I more often end up using the MKH 8050 just because of it's size being even easier to place and I have a hard time hearing the difference between that and the MKH 50.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@TeddyRumble]

Size, surprisingly, does make a difference indoors.

[@fransv1398]

Thank you Curtis. A very good practical demonstration of the theory.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@DavidKfilmmaker]

When my mkh50 sounded surprising great outdoors I sold my ntg3…,which I loved.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@chrisogrady28]

For me the reason nom-shotguns sound better is the capsule is at the end sp you are getting it much closer to your mouth before it enters the frame. The long interference tubes are in fromt of the capsule in shotguns, moving it significantly further back (in tight framing) and making the audio lose body. I would love a comparison of small vs large diaphragms in an out of shot context. I regularly shoot with my CAD M179 out of frame and it sounds pretty good and having it's infinitely adjustable polar pattern is useful for working around spaces

[@weightlessfilms5651]

Thanks for this comparison! I've been using a Rode NTG 3 (shotgun) indoors and outdoors and am quite happy with its sound and versatility. Mic placement and extraneous sounds are what make the difference, and of course capturing room tone. Granted, I'm no audio expert by any means and don't own a pencil condenser mic for comparison.

[@curtisjudd]

Yep, I agree, manage reverb and noise best you can and use a quality mic like the NTG3 and don’t look back!

[@mackhavoc477]

I use my NTG3 outdoors, but I have the Schoeps CMC641 for indoor use. Night and day.

[@curtisjudd]

@@mackhavoc477 would love to hear samples of each 👍

[@ScoobieDee]

This was a great test to run , many thanks and yes imo the MKH 50 was the best , even more so than the 8050. One important factor that you left out is the distance that the mic was from the persons mouth when indoors. I did a test with The MKH 416 and the MKH 600 and also the Audio Technical and found that “on my voice” I preferred the 416 inside at short distance about 20 cm but the Cardioid Audio technical was much better at greater distances 40 cm plus ..with the bass rolling off considerably on both shotgun sennheiser mics

[@curtisjudd]

18 inches for all of these samples.

[@rickymcc8624]

Thanks Curtis, I'm a relative newbie and amateur, but now I better understand the practical differences between these different types. Currently I have a Sennheiser MKH 416 and a MKE 600. Although not ideal indoors, I can't yet justify buying a HQ pencil condenser like the Sennheiser MKH 50 as I need to prioritize decent lighting, not to mention improving my skill base, but I'm slowly getting better.

[@curtisjudd]

Keep it up!

[@candinmuniz3225]

There are certainly some amazing pencil condensers listed out here, but don't sleep on some of the cheaper ones. For instance, the Shure SM81 is around $400 and works very well. The SE7 from SE is also a phenomenal mic, low self-noise, and around $90. Just don't go for the super cheap Samson CO2 (although they are still passable with appropriate editing) and you'll be fine. Podcastage does excellent breakdowns of all kinds of pencil condensers, so I recommend you check him out for direct comparison.

[@TeddyRumble]

I would recommend you check out the AT 4053b. Based on reviews, I purchased one, and immediately fell in love with it. I dragged it to film shoots and forced can't and crew to listen to it. They looked at me funny, but I love love love that mic. Of course, someone else loved it too, and stole it. $699 for a new one. It will take two months to pay that off.

[@GadesChannel]

Hi, Curtis, thank you very much for this comparison. I agree, in most situations shotgun can be use indoors, BUT I noticed some strange "metallic-filter" disruption while recording with Synco D-2 in specific (narrow but long) room. I think dimensions or proportions of the room are important while using shotguns - probably this is something with interference of reflections some part of frequencies in the interference tube. So - in general - you can use shotgun, but not always. And probably these rare situation are the basis of "indoor shotgun advice".

[@curtisjudd]

Probably so.

[@tonlaeuft]

That’s why I own multiple MKH50‘s. It‘s my absolute fav Mic - it sounds great in most places and on most persons! You just have to enjoy the „full“ sound.. but who does not 😄

[@curtisjudd]

🙏

[@johnheiser2604]

I love my MKE 600 plus a couple of Rode's NTG's. All affordable but good value.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@maxhighstein]

Thank you! I believe the pencil mics you used have hypercardioid or supercardioid capsules, which I imagine would make them better choice than pencil mics with cardioid capsules. I come from an audio background and have been recording video lately, and have been using my AKG 414 mic, set to hypercardioid pattern, on a boom. Although not in a room as bright as the one your demo was filmed in, I'm finding it to be an excellent choice. I should say that the shots are not very wide, so the mic is no more than a foot from the subject's face.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@orangejjay]

I use an AT 2021 pencil mic as my "starter" mic. As more funds come in and I get better at this video/audio game, I plan to upgrade to another pencil mic. Glad I found out about pencil mics before picking up the Rode NTG4+ I originally had in the cart (great mic but not so much so in an untreated, every day living room and bedroom studio set 😂). Thanks for continuing to produce these objective and continuously useful and current videos!! ❤❤

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@mackhavoc477]

I use a Rode NTF3 for outdoor stuff, mostly, but I went with the Schoeps CMC641 for indoor use. Hands down, the most amazing mic I have used for that stuff. And paired with a Zoom F6 w/32 bit float, the results have been amazing and I have had nothing but compliments from producers and directors. I have yet to encounter ANY clipping or distortion, even with lots of yelling and screaming, or loudness, in general. Best $1700 I have ever spent. And add the $300 lo cut filter add-on and you can use it in some pretty nasty situations.and dramatically lower your audio post workflow times w/cleanup

[@curtisjudd]

Nice 👍

[@haraldthi]

Thanks for doing this testing. I found the shotgun microphones to be the most reverberant, but none of them were actually bad. Which may be the issue here, if the microphones were put on the top of a camera and moved around. I have had quite a lot of issues with shotgun microphones outside close to cliffs, in fact. The reverb changes in an unnatural way as the microphone is moved. While I haven't had nearly as much issue using a shotgun mike in a crowded dining hall. It hints that some people are overly fond of simple but strict rules here instead of dealing with the actual issue. So thank you for the testing, as I was wondering where the limit goes.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, movement, in my experience, makes the issues more noticeable.

[@roadrunna.]

Good to see you after a while Curtis, you look even younger and smoother if one could get any smoother :) I'll look more but have you also reveiwed Oktava MK012 for indoor dialogues? I already have an NTG5, an H1N and Deity lavs but need something solid for indoor dialogue for narrative work and if I could have one for under $500 that would be awesome :D thank you, keep rocking!

[@DrRussell]

How on earth did the ladies recite the lines so consistently??? Thank you Curtis and team.

[@curtisjudd]

They’re true professionals. 👍

[@PanteraRossa]

I've an AKG P170 pencil condenser and the C568 shotgun which costs 5x more. In 90 percent of my common shooting scenarios the P170 just sounds a lot better than the much more expensive shotgun. If I wasn't a sub of your channel I would still only work with the expensive shotgun and would've never discovered this beauty. Not a lot of people review or mention AKG mics for film but I've used their headphones all my life and frankly really love their sound all around.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, I find that it isn’t always, or even usually, the most expensive gear that works best for a given person.

[@TeddyRumble]

​@@curtisjuddI agree, but the Schoeps CMNT is a cut above.

[@user-cx6rg6mr7d]

yes!!! love this video!!! Than you!

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@user-zv7lm8uk7h]

I do wish a CMIT snuck its way in there... but wow great video. Love that its information and not a product review! Great idea for a video and appreciate that you had many different samples.

[@curtisjudd]

I wish I had a cmit, too. 😀

[@user-zv7lm8uk7h]

I know the schoeps you do have is the better one to have (CMC?) even your tests here prove one would not want a shotgun for two person dialogue... but that CMIT is ... something to want indeed.. @@curtisjudd

[@HeribertMuermann]

I did now some reasonable sound treatment - e.g. DIY diffusors combined with my bookshelf - limited by the fact that I do not want to disturbe the flair of this my real living room. It helped a lot. But now the noise from the street at the left window is a problem if I want some distance - may be 25-30 cm (10-12 inch) - from my microphone. If I have understood this (and some other) videos correctly a shotgun like the Sennheiser MKE600 might be okay, because the moderate sound treatment should reduce phasing, too. At the moment I am using a Rode NT-USB (old version), would like to upgrade to the Rode NT1 (4.Gen.), but under the given circumstances a shootgun like the MKE600 might be the better option. But til not shure, wether to priorise the freedom of movement at least with arms and hands or the better sound. I want to make videos for people in Turkey learning German as a foreign language. Sound is important, but seeing me and my mouth, my gestures, too. The alternative may be a supercardoid SDC, because the noise from the street at the left is the main problem. Or I gave a damn to all these considerations and get a microphone with a sound l Iike (Rode NT-1) even if I have to put it for a clean sound closer to my mouth than I would prefer. I do it for fun not for money, at least I have to like, what I do.

[@curtisjudd]

Maybe put some heavy curtains over the window, just while recording.

[@dream-bits]

Sir I love your intro music. It’s amazing. ❤

[@curtisjudd]

🙏

[@europeanambience]

They all sounds good. The Schoeps sounds best for me but it´s just a minimal difference

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@DennisSchmitz]

I need a MKH 50 I think. Sounds great!

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@yawningmarmot]

I've watched your channel for so long that I've been almost conditioned to have the sentence "It was easier to know it..." randomly pop up in my head :D

[@curtisjudd]

😂

[@JoATTech]

Really happy with my MKE600. It's quite gentle for my voice. Although my cheap light is too loud and it's picked up by the mic :(.

[@curtisjudd]

The MKE600 is a gem.

[@hoodaffairstv]

for the price that MKE 600 sounds good. sounds like it just lacks a little low end. is it better to have a mic with good low end in the mic already like the 416 or the 4017b or can a mic that has good clarity like the MKE 600 add some low end in post produce a similar sound after some EQ

[@curtisjudd]

It does sound good. It has a good bit of low end. You can hear in these samples on my voice: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4nWXmSIbbF2nZI

[@healing2gether]

Curtis, thanks for another great video with very detailed comparisons. If you were a beginning filmmaker making independent films documentaries and you need an affordable shotgun Mike for filmmaking, can you recommend one under $200 you think would be the best what you would consider the nicest sound and highest quality.we may not always have upgraded preamps available so sometimes that would and would not be possible. Thanks.

[@TeddyRumble]

AT 897 is the classic, less expensive shotgun mic. New, about $250. Used can be good, but try out first.

[@edclevel402]

The variation was actually less pronounced than I expected. The MKH50 sounded the best overall to me as well, although it was rrrreally close with the CMC641 to my ear. The CMC641 presents as a tad more mid-forward to me. I also feel like most - maybe all - of the shotgun mics could produce very usable audio with some post-production de-reverb and a dash of EQ.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@ManishPt-IN]

Very very valuable..Thankyou so much

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@JamesClark1991]

It would have been nice to hear the same comparison in a more treated/less reflective room as well. Whenever I work with a new mixer I'm always curious as to which mic they're going to hand me for indoor boom work. Personally I've found the split is 50/50 between shotgun and pencil.

[@curtisjudd]

That’s a different comparison for another time. 👍

[@ideassharing]

God bless you Curtis

[@curtisjudd]

🙏

[@davidhasbrouck7948]

As far as I understand it, and correct me if I'm missing something, the physics of the coloration can be explained simply as follows. The shotgun mic is directional enough in the higher frequencies that it picks up mostly the source and then whatever is on its second bounce having hit the wall behind the camera and then behind the speaker. This means that the higher frequencies have more delay than they should accentuating the echo sound in the highs while the lows are not rejected as much and the timing is natural, but the balance in volume between high and low reverb is off. This makes the lows boomy and the reverb highs weaker and more distant sounding.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, directionality and polar pattern seem to be involved along with reflected sound into the interference tube.

[@levicarter4577]

I’ve worked with some mixers that only use Mkh-50s, indoor or out. And then some show like Gemstones, we used 416s for everything. I believe on the new Napoleon show or movie, not sure which, they only used 50s and 641.

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, people have their favorites and stick with them.

[@OUTDOORS55]

The mkh50 definitely sounds the best..but..your average person would probably have a hard time telling the difference between an mk50 and mke600 even when compared side by side. Let alone in a stand alone youtube video, when used as a primary mic. Yes, audio people can tell a difference because we know what to listen for. Everyone else wouldn't even notice. Thanks for the video 👍

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@MattArmon]

1. What is that quick release on the blimp/boom pole? looks amazing! 2. This makes me happy I went with the MKE600. Ill eventually pick up a better indoor mic- but hearing how the 600 matched up with some other mics made me pretty happy

[@curtisjudd]

1. Rycote’s quick release system - kzbin.info/www/bejne/boCUg2uehtGErtk 2. Yes, the MKE 600 is a gem

[@buckturgidson9666]

Thanks to your previous video, I purchased an AT4053b for my (indoor) videoconferencing. Mounted outside of the frame, it gives me really good sound quality making my coworkers ask me what mic I use. Honestly, I don't dare to tell as to many people I will appear crazy for spending that much on a mic for this purpose.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@Jonny51982]

For what it’s worth, as someone who has sensory issues, I always appreciate when I’m on with people who’ve put some effort and expense into their rig. It makes an enormous difference for me being able to follow conversations and not go into sensory overload. So, even if you think some of your coworkers might judge you for the cost, if any of your coworkers have sound sensitivities or sound processing issues, they probably appreciate your investment.

[@curtisjudd]

@@Jonny51982 Good point! Makes perfect sense.

[@AnthonyVella]

I have the MKH 416. Would the MKH 50 have me covered for most dialogue coverage? Thank you!

[@curtisjudd]

In my opinion, yes.

[@Tongaudio]

There's no simple answer to Shotgun vs Super/Hyper Cardioid. I always make the choice depending on the acoustic situation, framing of the camera, and if there's any limitation of the space. For tight indoor space, I have to go for a smaller mic like Sennheiser MKH8050, for a wide and tight interview shot indoor, I would probably go for Mini CIMIT or Sennheiser MKH8060 to get more directional. Also, documentary style indoor with not scripted dialogue, or a lot of moving involved, then I would go for my MKH8050 for a smoother frequency response. If any live music involved outdoor, I would use Schoeps CMC641. There are so many factors to influence my choice of which Mic I use, and there is no one simple answer to Shotgun vs Super/Hyper Cardioid for both indoor and outdoor situations.

[@curtisjudd]

Could not agree more. Timbre of the voice I’m recording is another factor.

[@drnerd]

I'm loving the at875r for indoor at the mo.

[@edclevel402]

same - this mic is a giant killer imho

[@RedDwarfNerd]

Me too! 🙂

[@drnerd]

Yeah, for the price its amazing, and so versatile, I use mine for both my video spokesperson work, and all my Voice Overs!@@edclevel402

[@curtisjudd]

That is a good one, especially for its price.

[@Snailmale7]

It’s my main mic at the moment !

[@Coolshows101]

Nice comparison. Shot gun was my choice years ago. With the info I found online, I could use it outside, and it would be okay inside. Rode NTG4+ is what I have from that. Well I started with a cheap $20 one from china that turns out has two diaphragms and two modes, shotgun and condenser. I used the NTG4+ for my film Airborne Death. You probably can't tell a shot gun was used indoors. I would ad that a LAV mic may be considered by many. Harder to pick up multiple people if you only have one, and more work to set up from what little I know, but they can be used both in doors and out doors. If I am correct, they need to be close to the sound, so they may have some rejection of sounds further away and not pick up as much background noise as a pencil condenser mic.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@DynamixWarePro]

A couple of weeks ago I had to make a voice over recording. It was only going to be a few minutes and I didn't have my voice over booth set up. I didn't have time to put it together. The room I recorded in has acoustic foam on part of one of the walls and part of the ceiling above the same wall. There is hard surfaces elsewhere in the room and my computer and computer desk. I used my Sennheiser MKH 416 and Mix Pre 3 II. I pointed the mic towards the acoustic foam wall and closed the window curtains and made sure the back of the mic was angled slightly towards the window where any external sounds I didn't want, would be coming from. I found the recording came out fine and I didn't hear any issues with it like much reverb. I also realised my neighbor directly opposite from my house, was using an electric saw and there was noises outside coming from that, but I didn't notice any of that on the recording which surprised me, but that could be to do with how directional the mic is. In a pinch it worked, but I'd rather have my vocal booth set up and record in it.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@markxunclesparkyscoolstuff8627]

A rarely mentioned fact is that most shotgun (lobar) mics have a substantial rear lobe pickup that pencil condensers (super cardiod) mics do not have. When used indoors up near the ceiling, this rear lobe could be the main reason for the reverberant sound of the shotgun mics.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@ArticulateDesignASMR]

Hi Curtis! I've been listening to a few of your videos now and found lots of amazing comparisons, but i have quite a specific question that hopefully you can shed some light on! I create something called asmr content and always use 2 mics, (out of shot) set up to simulate the left and right ears. Since the mics need to be out of the shot but still close enough to my mouth for maximum effect, it obviously forces me to have the camera very close/zoomed in. For this reason, i was considering 2 shotgun mics, just out of shot above my head. However, i have no idea how they would perform as a pair in this role and what the impact to the sound would be. I typically lean from left to right (speaking to each ear) throughout and a little concerned with how the opposite mic will deal with this. I've been using x2 NT1s for years now but id really like to expolore being able to record the audio from above. Sound is the absolute number 1 priority in my videos and i would be soooo grateful if you could share your thoughts on this. Budget isn't really an issue as they'll likely pay for themselves in time. No issues if this is too wordy and you simply don't have time :D

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Matt, thanks for your comment. I think the answer depends a lot on the space in which you record - how much it reflects sound and how much noise you are able to control/reduce/remove. But assuming the room is fairly well behaved from an acoustic point of view - and being the creator of ASMR content, I assume you've worked hard to make the space very soothing and quiet - two shotgun mics should work nicely. I'd purchase from a retailer which allows returns if things don't work out, but the best way is to try it out and hear how it goes. Best wishes!

[@ArticulateDesignASMR]

@curtisjudd Thank you very much Curtis! I'll see if I can source x2 416s locally with a solid return policy.

[@alephcinema]

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on DPA 2017 shotgun

[@curtisjudd]

Looks like I’ll be able to borrow one soon. 👍

[@BenBowmanNYC]

Really useful and informative as always. I'm surprised you didn't include the Audio-Technica AT875R. For an affordable bang-for-buck kit, I think the MKE-600 for outdoor and camera mic (self-powered) applications, and the AT875R for indoor dialog is a pretty unbeatable combo.

[@BenBowmanNYC]

or just the MKE-600 for everything.

[@curtisjudd]

I don’t have the AT875r on hand, but I agree, great bang for buck.

[@mshaftenberg]

Interesting. My favorites were Deity and Azden. Most of the other mics had a weird deep humming on top.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@PaulSaxbyPhotography]

We’ve been using the Deity SMic2s and D3 Pro for the last couple of years and have been really happy with them. In my opinion they offer outstanding value for money and great quality audio.

[@mirekbrdek4350]

Hi Curtis, thanks for the great and comprehensive test, it's a big help from you for all of us newbies out there! I really liked the sound in the second half of the test with the blue MKH-416 graphics, I was on the scales with the MKH-50. Anyway, I'm excited about the test and I'll be careful about which mic I use in the room. Is it also possible to use dynamic microphones such as the RE-20 or the TV favorite SKM-100 (capsule 835)? Thanks for all the listeners! Mirek Czech Republic

[@curtisjudd]

Of course 👍

[@compucorder64]

I thought the MKE 600 sounded suprisingly usable, though A/Bing against the MKH50, while character is similar but the 50 is cleaner, clearer more pleasant and has less obvious room sound pickup. The Rode had some of the clarity but then with some less pleasant brittle edginess/graininess. On a budget, could get by ok with the MKE600. The Deity S-Mic 2 almost had something of the Shure SM Dynamic mic sound about it. Pleasant, and could be useful for people that want that warm Shure SM7b vocal tone, but without a big old dynamic mic in the frame blocking their face. Though, the compromise would be some room sound pickup. The MKH50 as well as being the cleanest/clearest also seemed to present the room sound is a less box/unpleasant way. On the darker mics weirdly the room sound was more obtrusive. Whereas on the MKH50 the clarity of the voice above it kind of masked or blended it in. Unlike the woofiness of the darker mics like the Deity or the almost comb filtered ringing on the Audio Technica 4053b. The Schoeps CMC641 was my second favourite, but less intelligible, and heard more unpleasent boxiness and ringing in the room sound. And for third, the MKH 8050 was quite nice too, warmer, pleasant but less intelligible than the MKH50.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@horst-saiger]

Thanks for brilliant videos! Whats your budget mics recommendation for livestreams/videos in untreated room with 3-5 people. No problem to have mics anywhere in the frame, but not 10 cm in front of mouth? Rodecaster pro 2 is available for us. Thanks from Liechtenstein

[@curtisjudd]

SHURE SM58s all around.

[@curtisjudd]

And keep them within 5-10cm

[@Direct19681]

Hey Curtis, very informative video. Appreciate everything you do. What are your thoughts on the very budget friendly Sennheiser E614 super cardioid condenser microphone?

[@curtisjudd]

I’d like to try it!

[@markk2473]

Great info as always! What’s your go to recommendation for reducing reverb in post? Abode Audition user….

[@curtisjudd]

Acon digital’s deverberate.

[@aaroneschenburg4018]

I love my cmit5u indoors and it blows away the mkh50. Also the Sennheiser 8040 is a far better mix choice for interior dialog over the 8050 of mkh50. The 8040 doesn't have the extended bottom of the mkh50 and I think it opens up the sound and certainly helps let the mic breathe. Great for capturing multiple people evenly.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@johnnycashlesscomedy8616]

I also bought a recent CMIT5U and use it indoors, rather than my 8050b. I have heard once or twice strange artifacts doing indoor recordings, maybe it was comb filtering? The Schopes sounds so natural, like the person is there. It has a radio ready quality, where the raw tracks are quite good. I've also recorded music with it. I planned on getting the miniCMIT, but after hearing a bunch of youtube tests, it was clear to my ear that the higher voltage of the larger CMIT gave it better micro dynamics than the Mini. Would love the 641 one day, but focusing on getting a feature off the ground.

[@curtisjudd]

@@johnnycashlesscomedy8616 👍

[@gregoryhodges1079]

If it weren’t for you I wouldn’t sound as good! Thank you

[@curtisjudd]

🙏

[@OrigEntertainmentOfficial]

Can you do an updated boom pole recommendation video? Thank you!

[@curtisjudd]

Good idea.

[@AlexanderSuppermann]

Awesome video as always🙌 Curtis, could you please tell me, should I always use a small diagram condenser mic instead of using shotgun microphone? I mean if I pick up the only one universal mic for making indoor and field recordings

[@curtisjudd]

I’d consider 2 things: 1) how often I record outdoors vs indoors, and 2) whether you’ll move the mic while recording indoors. If you’ll have it stationary when indoors and you record outdoors more often, I’d choose a shotgun mic. Otherwise a pencil condenser.

[@makeperceive]

I was surprised that the Schoeps CMC641 had as much reverb as it did in the recording. I have the Sennheiser MKE 600 and it's really good value for money, but would like a short condenser as my next mic. CMC641 is the one on my radar, video production but also for indoor music recordings, voice, guitar, strings

[@mackhavoc477]

My CMC641 is the best mic I own for location sound. It is beyond better than anything Sennheiser makes. I bought it primarily for film stuff, but I can easily see using it for instruments like a cello or high end acoustic guitar. For normal studio recordings, like vocals, stick with more normal options.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@antoinewattier]

MK50 is always the best for indoors. I find the 416 not bad at all in this indoor situation. You get more reverb but you have this extra voice presence and detail.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@anlagrdr5229]

I can't believe this. I was searching this topic yesterday and today you posted the exact video I'm looking for. Great comparisons, thanks. If i can afford MKH 50 i probably can afford to buy MKE 600 as well though😂 What can we do to make similar sound coming from shotgun mic? Can post processing make it similar to the pencil condensers? If yes what steps would you recommend?

[@curtisjudd]

Add sound blankets and avoid moving the mic while recording. That’ll make the biggest difference.

[@TeddyRumble]

​@@curtisjuddI bought some moving blankets from the big box store, and spread them on the floor or hung them from walls. That really helps when using a shotgun indoors. I need less sound treatment using my AT4053b though.

[@patrickchase5614]

IMO the DPA 4017 sounds closer to the supercardioids than to many of the other shotguns. I could hear a significant difference in combing between it and the MKE600, and then a smaller step to the AT4053 (which I have) and the other SCs. As you say the MKE50 is amazing. Like you I started with the AT4053, and when I upgraded to the Sennheiser it was a bit of a revelation (I didn't go through the 8050 in between as you did though). The idea that somebody who can only afford one mic would go for the MKE50 seems a bit off to me though. I think that if you have the budget for a $1200 mic then you might be better off getting 2 $600 mics, an SC for indoors and then a shotgun for outdoors. I think you'd get more "balanced" results across the full range of situations that way.

[@curtisjudd]

Fair opinion. I'd be a bit hard pressed to identify a good $600 USD SDC.

[@hsjawanda]

Superb comparo! I thought my ears were sub-par (which they actually are; somewhat) for not hearing much of a difference. For non-professionals looking to get good sound for YT vids/video calls, would you say that a stereo pair of mics (assuming you move around a little bit within the frame) would make more of a difference than whether it's a shotgun or SDC?

[@curtisjudd]

I wouldn’t generally record dialogue with stereo mics - you pick up twice the room ambience/noise.

[@sopot9]

Shotgun mics used indors have some other serious problem: if you are unlucky reflective sound could cancel some frequencies of sound produced by the source if reverbed sound is moved in phase by period

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, more noticeable when the mic is moving.

[@TeddyRumble]

I had such problems using my Sennheiser shotgun indoors. I bought the AT4053b out of frustration, a world of difference.

[@24by36]

Hi Curtis, great video (as usual!). One question came to mind: from your experience with the DPA 2017, how well do you think it would work as a substitute for, say, a boomed Audix SCX1HC in a small, untreated room? I also have a couple of DPA Core 4060 lapel mics - I realise a lot depends on how/where they are placed, but would they cut well together with a 2017 with minimal EQ-ing?

[@curtisjudd]

It should, yes

[@stevenkralovec]

Your voice sounds great with whatever mic you’re using for the A Roll! Are you using the MKH50 for that? Maybe I’m only just noticing now since I’m using my best headphones haha. Anyway great video!!

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, that’s the MKH50.

[@stevenkralovec]

@@curtisjudd sounded fantastic to my ears

[@andrewp1513]

Wish I’d known this from the start!

[@curtisjudd]

Me too.

[@Mailada-bb2rt]

super nice

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@Mailada-bb2rt]

can you help us do a review?@@curtisjudd

[@curtisjudd]

@@Mailada-bb2rt Contact me via the email listed on my KZbin channel.

[@ITonOccasion]

Thank you for all the hard work in these comparisons! Would you mind sharing your opinion between the difference of the AT 875r and the AT4053b? I'm looking to use it in an untreated room, but the room has stuff on all the walls (shared office space at home). I'm looking to start a youtube channel, so not a lot of moving. I don't mind better audio, but I'm not sure if the price jump will be noticed in a non professional situation.

[@curtisjudd]

Mic position will be more important than which of the two you choose.

[@rickymcc8624]

Hi Curtis, this comment is off topic, but concerns Rode's small twin transmitter/recorder Pro that I think has just been announced. I would love to see your take on this. I'm sure it's probably already on your planned list of new items to test and review. Topline it looks incredibly interesting (based on paper specs). Don't know the price but for what it appears to include it will potentially rival many expensive pro kits. Maybe too good to be true. Adding timecode, real time monitoring, 32 bit float recording on transmitter, super compact, decent run time, charging case etc. Only downside I can see is (a) uses crowded 2.4 Ghz space and possibly (b) unknown compatibility with HQ lavs like Sanken Cos 11D? Hope you can test it soon.

[@curtisjudd]

It’s on its way to me now. I wouldn’t consider this as a competitor to pro wireless systems like Lectrosonics or sound Devices or Zaxcom, but definitely looks interesting! More to come!

[@TeddyRumble]

For half the price of the Sennheiser, the AT 4053b is my go to indoor mic. Compared to my Rode NTG3 indoors, it is quite a revelation. I am not a pro, at this point, so... I have not had any complaints about the sound of either mic.

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@JWS1968]

I've used the Sennheiser ME66 for two decades and always get great sound. Indoor and out. I also have the ME64 which is a pencil cardioid but hardly ever use it. I would argue the ME66 sounds better in most situations. In my opinion.

[@curtisjudd]

Glad the ME66 works well for you! Shame they discontinued it.

[@JWS1968]

@@curtisjudd I never take it out of the blimp. It's been in there so long I forget what it looks like. HAHA. Kidding. I give is a clean now and again and use a battery instead of Phantom Power. Pump it into a wireless transmitter straight into my camera. I use the Rode Filmmaker kit. No pre-amps nothing. Sounds great.

[@DeltaWhiskeyBravo13579]

Elementary my dear sound folks. Each mic sounded more than acceptable, however like everything else, there's a best choice. Nothing wrong at all with that. Great info yet again, Curtis and co. PS I'm a contrarian I suppose. Erroneous statements about audio or video likely will begin with Always and Never. Tell me always or never do, that's a challenge to prove you're not always right. Trust me, there's ways to make compromised things work far better than expected with just a bit of effort, experimentation, and knowledge.

[@curtisjudd]

Best to avoid superlatives. 👍

[@MANGO-FILM]

Hi Curtis, thanks for your great video. What about the Sennheise ME 64? Is that good for indoor dialogue?

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, but treat the room with sound blankets if it needs it

[@MathiBA]

Hello Sir, what would be your suggestion to get me Synco Mic D2 to use wirelessly. I tried with a Sennheiser ew G4 transmitter, it didn't work. do i have to send separate Phantom power to the D2?. appreciate your help!! thx!

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, you'll need a transmitter that can supply 48V Phantom power. Sennheiser makes one for their G4 system.

[@gentlemanlygerry]

Interesting video. Would not have thought about using anything other that shotguns to boom because of my limited knowledge of booming, but oddly enough I have fallen in to booming inside without having a shotgun/ mic of any kind available to me, and no interest in obtaining a shotgun mic either. But I digress. Currently I am helping to record in-house a modern radio-play in a garage that has some echo but could be quickly treated with dense fabrics to help things out but we haven't tried that yet, and I am using my SDC pencil mics as boom mics. One is on the blanketed table and one is on the mic stand up in the air as central to the actors involved as I can get it and enough so it can be above most people's heads by half a foot to a foot, but I noticed in this video you recommend a foot and a half it seems, noted. However, I am not using the pencil mics in cardiod mode like I have done to record voiceover/voice acting/singing with them in my booth, instead I am using them in omnidirectional mode because the powers that be liked the fuller sound of that better when we did a quick test for the first time two weeks ago. The technical end of sound is not my forte, so I am curious, even though you cannot see the exact space, if you would or could foresee any issues that we may face and if you have any suggestions in general, and your thoughts on using omni vs cardiod. Just curious. Thank you again for your content and for reading my long-winded comment/question. Have a great day. Stay safe and stay awesome. Gerry :)

[@curtisjudd]

Gerry, always, always, always trust your ears. Sounds like you have the space decently treated so if the Omni sounds best, stick with it!

[@gentlemanlygerry]

@@curtisjudd Sound advice. Ha!🙃Your words echo the sound engineer that I call my "sound yoda" as they helped me test microphones out in 2021 to find out what sounded best for my very deep voice, which ended up being two different kinds of SDCs (lineaudioc2me & apex185b), a dynamic (senne935), and also ribbon mics but they had too much internal noise upon gain turn up. But I digress. Regardless,, I will continue to trust my ears and heed both your and his advice. Thank you very much for your response and keep up the great videos. Stay safe and stay awesome Curtis. 🙃✌️🎤🎙️

[@soleja00]

Hi Curtis, I'm building up equipment to do sketches/short films mainly where I expect to be working with 2-4 actors at a time. Would you recommend just 1 boom mic (if I can get a boom operator) or play it safe and get 2 and put them on C stands or something, so I don't have to rely on another person?

[@curtisjudd]

If the actors will not be delivering lines while moving around, then I'd put the mics on stands and set marks for the actors.

[@skakdosmer]

I'm sure the MKH 50 is great. But if you can only afford one microphone, it's probably not an option, as for the price of it you could get maybe four or five other good microphones. I like your final recommendation of the MKE 600, because really they all sound quite okay (to me at least, except maybe the Azden), so why not choose one of the more affordable ones. You say they all sound reverberant, but I thought some less than others, and not necessarily the ones you'd expect. The Røde did not sound particularly reverberant to me, even though it's a "shotgun", while the 8050 sounded more reverberant, even though it isn't a "shotgun". I expect it depends on a lot of factors, and that it may be different in different rooms. So that in one room mic A is worse than mic B, but in a different room it could be the other way around. It could even vary in different spots in the same room, I'd expect. So if you only have one mic, it could be an idea to try different mic placements to find the best spot.

[@curtisjudd]

My next hypothesis to test is that shotgun microphones will experience more phase issues and comb filtering when on a moving boom pole in reverberant spaces vs pencil condensers.