Customer Wanted It Cheap But Learned An EXPENSIVE Lesson - A Day In The Life Of A Gas Engineer 142

The customer wanted the job as cheap as possible and even went to the extent of getting the boiler without researching anything other than the cheapest one they could find.
Ultimately the existing system wasn't compatible with the boiler, but this only became apparent once the boiler had already been fitted and it was time to do the wiring.
This ended up creating more work which inevitably cost the customer more overall anyway. Had they taken recommendations from their installer, and done some more thorough research, they could have saved the hassle and could have had the same outcome for a lower overall cost.
Hope you enjoy the video!
As always, thank you all for supporting the channel, I appreciate it!
#plumbing #heating #boiler
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[@user-li8gr8ur8l]

Can of worms❤ . Don’t you love it when customers think they saving a few quid only to realise they r going to be paying more to correct it.. top job Chirag.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks Arif 👍🏾

[@Brian-nf6bt]

Well your mate was crazy to take the job with the customer wanting to supply things like the boiler

[@andrewoleary9704]

Thank God the customer supplied the boiler!!!!!!

[@cputilitysolutions]

Yup!

[@brendanfisher2528]

Sounds like a nightmare. This is where a relay will come in handy! 240v from Y plan will click over the relay, on the boiler side of the relay you can but in the low voltage wires and it will just link them together. Keeping the 240v and low voltage separate.. check relays out on youtube and get a little jig set up and have a play with it! They will get you out of situations like this mate... hope your doing well pal

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks mate, yeah I need to look into relays after people suggested it. Never used them before but I think I'll do what you said and get some and set up a rig at home to practice so when I have a similar situation I should be able to sort it 👌🏾

[@paulkramer2599]

Having 2 separate 240v supplies to a heating system is a definite no no ! I did wonder how you was going to put a permanent feed to the boiler downstairs 😬

[@ashleysawyers7739]

Hi, watching your video I see that was a very expensive way of solving this problem. All you had to do. Is to fit a relay switch between the boiler and the switch live of the zone valve. Regards Ashley

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks, I've not used relays/contactors before but I will look into it after your advice 👍🏾

[@rickd6421]

I would use a relay too . 240v coil connnected to orange on 3 port in wiring centre and clean contacts back to boiler for 24v switching or whatever local voltage it is

[@cputilitysolutions]

@@rickd6421 thanks 👍🏾

[@seanmcgee5060]

I was just about to say this 👍

[@jamessutton-xh9bn]

Absolutely love your content everyday is a learning day in this trade. Thanks for all that you post

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you 🙏🏾

[@heatpump8566]

Great job, well done bud

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you mate 👍🏾

[@farhadfaraday3958]

well done 👏

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks 👍🏾

[@JDotabc]

Another solid video!

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks!

[@johnward5006]

That's the problem when the customer supplies anything! Without being sure if it's a 24R or not I have to say changing to an S plan was the smartest option. When it comes to three port valves and relays, it is not understood by most installers/electricians that in certain operating phases approximately 50Vac is present when no demand is calling; which is sufficient to operate most relays!

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks 👍🏾

[@cfgman1]

This is all a learning curve albeit a steep one. I had no one to turn to except my dad who taught me both gas and electric..no internet etc. Basically no one wanted give any info out to safeguard their knowledge base. Build on your experience and always listen to what others suggest...but at the end you need to make the call. You're young one day you will be giving a young stud the same advice. By the way I have over 45 years experience but every day is a school day.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Absolutely, I've not used relays/contactors before but after all the suggestions I'll be looking into it for the next time a similar situation occurs 👍🏾

[@robharrison6918]

@@cputilitysolutions you’ll find wiring the vaillant VR70 & 71 quite straightforward when you get used to it, but you have to make sure the setup is correct. Takes some time getting used to it but factor that into your price. Your customers will appreciate it. 👍

[@cputilitysolutions]

@@robharrison6918 nice thanks for the suggestions mate 👍🏾

[@Kiangaf]

Had trouble with wiring Aristons over the years. They are one of the few brands that don’t allow for 220v. The agent here sold an additional part for wiring them at the extra cost. I stopped installing them over ten years ago.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks for your input mate 👍🏾

[@waynebrown7671]

Problem solvers thats what we are nice one buddy 😊

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks mate 👍🏾

[@timkelly633]

Well done for finding a solution to a tricky problem. Obviously not ideal, but as long as you massively lable everything so future engineers know there are two supplies then it solves the problem. Hopefully your colleague learnt a lesson, I doubt the customer will have.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you mate 👍🏾

[@Exgasman9072]

There should only be 1 fused spur to power the system

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks 👍🏾

[@robharrison6918]

So I’ve had a very quick look at the MI for this and as I see it Ariston have put a remedial way of a kind of hot water priority to this. I could be wrong though as I haven’t fitted one and probably wouldn’t. If you were installing weather compensation with this, everyone should be anyway, you can use the interface on the boiler and set parameters to alter flow temperature for the heating. You put both volt free to TA1 and if you using weather comp you would split and use TA1 HW and TA2 Heating giving better control of the condensing range of the boiler. Glad you worked it out though 👍👍👍

[@cputilitysolutions]

Nice one mate good to know options 👍🏾

[@robharrison6918]

@@cputilitysolutions you may not fit another but your going to have to up your knowledge (in a nice way) on hot water priority. You can do it with zone valves or a diverter which is normally open to heating. The German V’s do it well along with Intergason either Opentherm or Bus. 👍👍👍😁

[@cputilitysolutions]

@@robharrison6918 yeah it's something I do want to look into. Would be nice to fit PDHW on my next boiler/cylinder install

[@gasnewbie1941]

Love your attitude to learning from others and supplying info to some of us minions. Keep up the great work. Ps if you getting out of breath from the steps, maybe more cardio lol

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you! Haha yeah I do need to do more cardio 😂

[@russellbaldry5095]

Great job mate…..steer well clear of cheap boilers! I wonder how much they actually saved by the time they paid for you to switch all those controls over. Ive had in the past when i got to the job and customer bought a heat only cos it was cheaper when i told them to get a system boiler🤷🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[@cputilitysolutions]

FFS 😂 this is what I mean! 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@Chatterisdotbiz]

Great job sorting it out, as others have said a Contactor is £11 and a single module din enclosure is £5 would have sorted it.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you 👍🏾

[@andrewoleary9704]

A bit like Alpha. MI say how to connect external controls but also know they won’t work; therefore you have to fit their own product! In that case they should come with the boiler!!!!

[@cputilitysolutions]

💯

[@yoyoyothejloshow]

I never fit a boiler that I haven’t supplied, they’ll still except you too cover the warranty, and you’ll be going out too it, for nowt. Good effort that though, wiring blows my mind at the best of times. 🤯

[@cputilitysolutions]

Yeah me neither mate, I always supply everything (except maybe a stat in case the customer wants to get that themselves)

[@willemgijs3803]

He should've checked it since the customer orderded the boiler maybe. On the otherhand it should be customer thats liable for choosing the right type of boiler.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Yeah customer should have left it to the installer to suggest if they don't know what to look for

[@TomChapman-wv9iq]

Bet you got your steps in that day lol

[@cputilitysolutions]

Defo did mate 🤣

[@S.Trades]

When you buy cheap, you often buy twice!

[@cputilitysolutions]

👍🏾

[@davidpersaud2031]

You could have used a mains relay to sort that.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks, I'll be looking into this going forward 👍🏾

[@YoutubeHero666]

I look when am quoting for a boiler if not fitted one before. maybe a relay would have worked

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks 👍🏾

[@joncoke8208]

Great vid mate do you find alot more price difference between press and solder?

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks man. Yeah the fittings are lot more expensive but I guess with anything as more people get into it hopefully should bring the prices down I hope

[@andrewoleary9704]

A system boiler that won’t work on Y Plan. Haven’t fitted an Ariston for 20yrs…… various reasons why apart fro the fact they are forever breaking down!!

[@cputilitysolutions]

Haha so true

[@gibbodive140]

Hi Chirag. Could you not have kept the Y plan and used the orange 240V to activate a relay which switches the 24V to the boiler? Relay next to boiler so no need to run a new cable. Much simpler, and cheaper ?

[@gibbodive140]

Sorry fella.. Also it really isnt advisable to have two electrical supplies to a single heating system. Make sure it is very well labelled with notices at both ends for future maintenance engs.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thanks for the advice & suggestions, I've not used relays/contactors before so I did it in the way that I knew. Will defo look into these going forward 👍🏾

[@gibbodive140]

@@cputilitysolutions No worries. Nobody knows everything but years of experience helps. The other thing to bear in mind is that working life can be difficult for tradesman who work on there own. No one to bounce ideas from. If you work for a company there will be many people whose experience can be drawn from immediately at the end of a phone. This is where social media/you tube can be very constructive, particularly for the sole trader. I have learned from watching presentations. You are putting yourself out there - Good luck to you. Take care...

[@cputilitysolutions]

@@gibbodive140 absolutely, I'm more than happy to take constructive criticism if it teaches me something new and sharing my work on social media I've learned a LOT from people watching my stuff. Thanks again for your advice mate, much appreciated 🙏🏾

[@robharrison6918]

It’s not switching 24V on the boiler. It’s just using the switch in the zone valve to activate the board in the boiler. 👍

[@johnboddington]

Very interesting - question for the sparks here.... from fellow breakdown engineer. If you are running the grey and orange wires to the zone valve at low voltage - this will mean you have both mains and low voltage within in the same flex going to the actuator head... Is this allowed?

[@cputilitysolutions]

A couple of people have commented to say it's not advisable so will make note of that going forward 👍🏾

[@gibbodive140]

This is a really interesting question. On a previous post i mentioned using 2x240v supplies for the same heating system from different sources - not great and as an electrician you will understand the reasons all too well. However utilising 240 and 24 v on a single cable is a slightly grey area. My understanding is - As long as the insulation between 240/24 volt conductors is adequate. Correct labeling applied. Possible induced voltage from the 240V doesnt create problems to the 24V side/controls/boiler. One thing to bear in mind is that the longer the cable the more induced voltage could be created. So personally I would run 2 separate cables from a wiring centre to a boiler rather than combining in one. As an electrician would you run 240 and 24 volt in the same cable ? It would be interesting to hear other comments on this. Thank you

[@johnboddington]

@gibbodive140 yes I totally agree that having 2 power sources on a heating system is a big no no from an electrical point of view. Although I've come across it a few times! I guess with 230v and 24v within the same cable - If someone was to cut or drill through it, the 24v side of the boiler PCB would get potentially destroyed with 230v firing down it?

[@brianmayne6513]

Did you put 240v into the boiler and go out on the low voltage side.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Yes that's it

[@SteveB-xz2zy]

Relay between appliance and mpv swl (orange)

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you 👍🏾

[@jamessutton-xh9bn]

Just so you know in the manual it does say this. "Note: The use of a ‘Y’ Plan system is not possible with the E-SYSTEM ONE boiler due to the low voltage switching of the appliance unless suitable relay controls are used"

[@cputilitysolutions]

Thank you 👍🏾

[@SteveN-pw4dj]

Not watched the whole video yet but a contactor can be used.

[@cputilitysolutions]

Yeah it's been suggested in the comments. I've not used one before so wasn't aware of them but will be looking into it going forward 👍🏾

[@Exgasman9072]

Is that copper pipe?

[@cputilitysolutions]

Yes

[@Exgasman9072]

@@cputilitysolutions Strange colour

[@cputilitysolutions]

@@Exgasman9072 it's just become oxidised

[@andrewoleary9704]

Are you wearing belt kit?? You so don’t like a climber with carabiners 🤣😂🤣

[@cputilitysolutions]

Got a few too many keys 🤣

[@adija12]

Haha Brownfield St, shitty E14

[@cputilitysolutions]

😂

[@singlemalt5261]

Could you not have just installed a contactor? To switch the low voltage

[@cputilitysolutions]

Not used them before but will look into it going forward, thanks 👍🏾