MK6 Golf R Dyno Comparison, Stock(ish) vs Stage 2+

[@grahamek86]

Correction on the "torque management" statement. This is surge control that APR employ. Nothing to do with traction. The K04 rides hard on the left hand side of the compressor map when coming on boost low down. The engine can't consume the air so the compressor surges. APR pull boost back and work the VCT to avoid that as much as possible.

[@COMotorsports]

Thanks and I do agree, however we've see 375wtq on a near identical setup at 3500rpm(91oct) with another provider so it's possible to make the torque down there without surge. So clearly there's a bit of other sorcery going on to manage that torque. I'm no calibrator but I think "torque management" is still technically what's going on as a calibration standpoint. Appreciate the feedback.

[@grahamek86]

CO Motorsports At 375wtq what boost was it running? The software on that car is at least v3.4. Myself and a Leon Cupra in the UK did testing on v3.31 which was pre-production for what is now 3.4. Torque management is a calibration strategy to limit torque. This isn't the strategy here and torque output isn't APRs concern at this point. It's purely to stop the turbo riding hard into the surge point. I am a calibrator (not for APR) and have done thousands of hours testing K04 and K04 derivatives and I can tell you that at 375wtq, without nitrous, you'll be surging hard and likely pushing 1.7+ bar pressure at that RPM range.

[@COMotorsports]

@@grahamek86 The 375wtq at 3500rpm was with UM software, tuned on the dyno with updates from UM as we went. I would add the dyno sheet here if I could.

[@grahamek86]

@@COMotorsports Dyno sheets don't show surge though. Knowing the compressor map for the K04, the ability for that engine to ingest air at that RPM and thus the pressure ratio required to reach the airflow required for that torque - it's surging.

[@COMotorsports]

@@grahamek86 So your saying if a turbo is not working to it's full potential it can't be seen on a dyno? So air pulses caused by serge will have no impact on overall power? Seems unlikely. And to be clear I'm not saying that the 375wtq at 3500 vehicle wasn't surging, It very well could have been as it was years ago, but I would still expect a major surging issue would show itself in regards to power output on the dyno, much like any other factor that impedes a turbo's performance.

[@gavynhohman5720]

I just found your channel. Love the information and great entertainment. I have a 2004.5 GLI and that’s what initially drew me into your videos. The Lagoon Blue GLI that you’re doing the big turbo on is absolutely beautiful, and I can’t wait for more videos on it. I’d like to do something similar to mine. Keep up the good work!

[@COMotorsports]

Appreciate the comments. Hoping to have it on the dyno next week sometime.

[@hseriesonlymonctonnb1181]

Looks good !! Gotta love the people who comment I thought it was awd when it was one of the first thing you touched in this video keep up the good work hopefully the boarder opens up and I can spin your rollers this spring

[@COMotorsports]

Thanks, yeah we're good here...seems like everyone else is getting the beat down currently.

[@DjBann]

I'd like to see a before and after dyno when installing a FMIC.

[@COMotorsports]

Unlikely going to be a back to back on this one, but I would expect gains for sure, and it would make a large difference for track situation or constant back to back pulls. That's when the stock IC is really going to suffer.

[@BabyCharlotteschannel]

I actually saw a back to back with only a fmic replacing the factory tmic.. might have been edge motorsports, not sure, there were absolutely some gains, but obviously the longer it was ran the more it would shine esp on a hot day escaping heat soak! That fuel pump change is incredible! Really shows how inadequate the factory unit is, esp under wot! *Do you think running the stock or an ots map it would make a big difference then as well!?!?

[@JonathanHernandez-ly8fo]

I have a 2012 Golf R two door and I literally just ran into your channel yesterday and my god I have so many questions hahaha

[@COMotorsports]

Sorry I missed this, fire away.

[@danbmx445]

This makes me want to trade in my fbo 2013 mazdaspeed3 in for one of these. They're pretty cheap in the states now.. thanks for the video!

[@eastcoastcarzecc1878]

Keep up the awesome videos cheers from the New Brunswick car scene🤘

[@COMotorsports]

Appreciate it. Thanks.

[@KredBr]

Great video, thanks for the info! I've got the same stock(ish) car haha

[@COMotorsports]

Appreciate the feedback, glad you enjoyed.

[@Sirfunkymonkey]

Awesome man

[@Nubsauce]

Jesus, very impressive!

[@jamesclayton4378]

Thats a damn clean mk6 R

[@JGZ114]

Im confused as how it was running so low hp before hand im sure these are 266 bhp stock?

[@COMotorsports]

Wheel HP is different then crank HP.

[@HypaHypa69]

Did you have to do the clutch for stage 2+? if so which clutch would you recommend?

[@Chris-qv8kc]

Southbend

[@scottymac4927]

With the stage 2 software upgrades could the power curve be dialled in for a less punchy pow? Thanks

[@COMotorsports]

Because this is a small turbo respectively, the turbo wants to create lots of torque low int he RPM range. As mentioned towards the end when I chat about the graph the tune is controlling torque in the lower RPM range to make the car more linear and quicker on the street. Without that it would just be an instant torque spike.

[@cameron7267]

Hey I'm actually about to purchase one of these, a blue one. Is this the stock paint job on this car in the video? If not what color is this or paint code. I love that blue

[@COMotorsports]

Stock

[@Tasijoe]

Nice video

[@JacesOwnWorld]

People really need to stop with the argument "we dyno our AWD Golf R in FWD only because 95% of the time this car drives in 2-wheel drive". As this is correct, when you're doing FULL THROTTLE pulls, the Golf R uses AWD 100% of the time. SO to dyno it in only 2-wheel drive is highly inaccurate. If you make 300whp on the 2-wheel drive dyno with your Golf R, you really aren't making that on the road. You are making closer to 285whp.

[@COMotorsports]

You're statement is false. There is no argument. The car is in FWD all the time, and only engages the rear wheels when required. WOT does not mean the rear wheels have power. If you put a MK7R on a true linked AWD dyno that truly replicates the road.. it will still only be dynoing in FWD as there's no need to engage the rears because there's no loss in traction to the front tires.

[@MN_Diecast]

On the two lower brass fittings for the HPFP, was there a crush washer for each or just the one in the pan in the upper left corner of the video? (When you had the fuel pump disassembled)

[@COMotorsports]

Nothing was out of frame in regards to filming the fuel pump.

[@MN_Diecast]

@@COMotorsports I thought there was only one, which your video supports, but the interwebs say there were two! Thanks

[@lukejones7779]

Do you know if the exhaust has a resonator or if it is stainless steel?

[@COMotorsports]

Not a 100% sure sorry.

[@rharrell777]

That specific software upgrade claims to have the same H.P. gain just from the ECU flash alone. Do you think it would reach the.+70 H.P. gain without the fuel pump being done? I know that's a "your opinion" type question, but what do you think?

[@COMotorsports]

Do I think the HPFP upgrade and software will provide the gains APR claims. Yes I do.

[@ronnieronnie8549]

Hey guys what’s the most whp can the mk6 R handle stock block and head? Thanks for the nice vids also. Learning a lot.

[@red-bd3mc]

122whp

[@bobbywalker2050]

That didn’t need a clutch in it? My Golf R has a Unitronic CAI and stage 1 tune and my clutch slips around 4k RPM. In the process of getting a stage 3 installed now

[@COMotorsports]

Don't remember on this car sorry, I would likely say in the video.

[@ozone377]

Cool stuff bro. Let's get a big turbo kit for the MK7 1.4t Gen 2

[@COMotorsports]

Not gonna be a common item I don't suspect.

[@ozone377]

@@COMotorsports ok

[@ozone377]

@@COMotorsports question with your amazing skills, do u think u can make power out of one of these mk7 1.4t gen 2?

[@COMotorsports]

@@ozone377 for sure, it's just an engine. However the cost wouldn't make sense to be honest.

[@ozone377]

@@COMotorsports I get it. Good work anyway.

[@ErikRules21]

l have a stage 2, downpipes, hpfp, cold air intake. i herd some things about mixing a few gallons of E85 with 91 to give it an extra pinch. Also what other gas do you recommend? here in California we don't have all that fancy racing gas, state sucks.

[@COMotorsports]

We don't even have E85 here... I have to bring it in for our race car. :(

[@ErikRules21]

@@COMotorsports thanks for the reply. wish l could drive my car there you guys look like you do a fucking awesome job.

[@jedediahsmart569]

@@ErikRules21 You should really tune for e85, not just toss it in the tank. E85 is realistically the best fuel for a tuned street car, since it reduces knock and it cools too. The challenge is getting enough fuel since it requires about 30% more e85 to achieve the same HP as pump gas. Check out my IG page and DM me if you want to talk MK6R stuff. instagram.com/dasr20_mk6r/?hl=en

[@jonjonpun]

Hi, great content! I’ve got the same car and from Australia. I’ve been informed that our Golf R’s are not the same compared to US delivered vehicles? I guess it’s regulations with emissions. I have got an APR stage 2+ tune too but not the same power as what you got from your vehicle. Had a dyno done and it only produced 200kw = 268hp. I’ve done intake, Downpipe, exhaust , HPP and RFD. Not sure as why not getting your figures? One thing though is that when it got dynoed, they didn’t disconnect the Haldex system. Could it be the reason? Would be great to get thoughts and opinions with this. Thanks for sharing! Cheers

[@COMotorsports]

What dyno brand?

[@jonjonpun]

@@COMotorsports not really sure? i beleive its a Mainline Dynolog.

[@pullmyniblets]

​@@jonjonpun its American horsepower they always read more than the rest of the world

[@richardford5794]

Hi do you remember if it has the stock intercooler and what difference do you think it would make if it had say an APR cooler installed... thanks in advance for the reply ....keep up the great content 👍😎

[@COMotorsports]

On stock turbo, one run I'd say maybe a little. But the difference would come on back to back runs is where it's going to shine as it's not going to get completely heat soaked compared to the stock on.

[@treedeblue]

Awesome work what hardware mods would I need to reach this stage 2 tune 300 hp on a 2012 R?

[@COMotorsports]

I believe all mods are described in the video.

[@Fabian95_7.5R]

Mine had stock 272 hp and with the stage 1+ 320 hp i don‘t know what is wrong with your golf 6r

[@COMotorsports]

@@Fabian95_7.5R so you dynoed 272whp on 91oct stock? You have to understand what's going on in the video to be able to compare.

[@johnwjeromejr]

Was a downpipe not included in your upgrade to APR Stage 2+? I thought the downpipe was an essential component for Stage 2 (which I have on my MK7 Golf R).

[@COMotorsports]

It has a turboback exhaust already. Meaning already had an upgraded downpipe.

[@johnwjeromejr]

@@COMotorsports OK That was something I didn't know.

[@COMotorsports]

@@johnwjeromejr I'm referring to this car specifically. The downpipe and exhaust was already upgraded on it, we just needed to finish it up with the pump and tune.

[@CarraigButler]

is the golf r able to send all power to the front wheels like that?

[@COMotorsports]

100% that's how it's driving around 99% of the time.

[@Cynical709]

Why the wavey graph. Turbo surge from lack of fuel or something?

[@COMotorsports]

It's to help prevent compressor surge. If it was aloud to go full out that low it would surge really bad. Software prevents that from happening.

[@Cynical709]

@@COMotorsports ahhh learns something new everyday.

[@geronimoortega5]

What was the max boost/holding on stock file vs the flash?

[@COMotorsports]

No clue

[@TTurbo06]

On my UM 2+ R i peak at 30psi and hold 26psi. Stock I wanna say peaked at 16 and held 12

[@Obe2k_]

I just bought a golf R with a boost gauge & im hitting around 23 to 25 psi im wondering if thats stage 1 or stage 2 & he also had a IE tuner cable so im guessing the time is from IE any help would he appreciated

[@COMotorsports]

Probably best to reach out to IE, they may have record. Congrats on your new purchase. 👍

[@whiskizyo2067]

yeah man call them with the VIN. seen this question before except that guy didnt know which tuner so he called around but did find them

[@Anon_Fox]

You probably figured it out by now but it has to be a stage 2. I’m on IE stage 2 lite 93 octane and weather has cooled down a little and I’m hitting max boost around 23.5 sometimes 24 psi.

[@JT-nk8gv]

Apart fromt he HPFP and other hardware if I go 2+ on my MK6 R should I be upgrading anything else? If so what should I look at next to keep the car reliable ? Great vids btw keep up the good work!

[@COMotorsports]

Good parts and software to match and no problem having a reliable car. So intake, hpfp, downpipe and software and you're good.

[@JT-nk8gv]

@@COMotorsports I added a GFB div+ and an Wagner FMIC to go with the tune hit 330hp on the dyno very impressive my question is should I upgrade my clutch its DSG not manual and what would you recommend my next engine mod be or should I go water meth kit now? Awesome vids man!!

[@COMotorsports]

@@JT-nk8gv if you have stock DSG tune you should already have DSG (TCU) software at this level IMO. Clutch pacs are fine for this power but software is what's required.

[@JT-nk8gv]

CO Motorsports hey already have a dsg tune to stage 2 clamping pressure is better I was considering connecting rods and pistons should be next as they are prone to failure once you go stage 2+ and above? But also the clutch is my worry how long can I expect it to last on a stage 2+ car had 90 thou kms now but stock since recently.

[@COMotorsports]

@@JT-nk8gv These don't wear like a standard clutch due to them being wet, and since you already have the proper software to make things much better on them you're ready for upgrades.

[@Josh.Espada]

I’m super confused right now. How is this a Golf R on a FWD Dyno? Aren’t Golf R’s AWD?

[@COMotorsports]

If you’re confused, watch our video “How to dyno a Haldex Volkswagen or Audi on a 2wd dyno” we did a little bit ago. That should help you out!

[@hseriesonlymonctonnb1181]

He talked about at the start of this video

[@1Rude86]

Apr discontinued there stage 2 tune know where I can get the tune from for 93 octane

[@COMotorsports]

You can still get the tune for another month.

[@PieMK6R]

Get UM stage 2 tune. Rumors that's what APR used for theirs 😆

[@joeromano6549]

What do you normally see for stage 1 on these?

[@COMotorsports]

91oct Stage 1 around 265-270whp.

[@joeromano6549]

Thanks!

[@280zx2by2]

I thought the Golf R made a lot more power factory, like the 280 range. Ouch.

[@COMotorsports]

You do realize manufactures advertise their vehicles in crank HP not wheel HP? This is a chassis dyno which measures power at the wheels not at the crank. Hence the difference in power. This is right where it should be.

[@Tasijoe]

CO Motorsports spot on, not to mention the mk7 R has a bigger turbo than the mk6 so they also make a lot more power.

[@COMotorsports]

@@Tasijoe you are correct.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

225ish HP is what the late 80s mustangs used to have advertised , I remember because I'd beat up on them in my 83 GTI.

[@dujuanjohnson5025]

The newer R’s do but this is a 6R with a smaller K04

[@cs_cabrone9012]

Did I miss what clutch was in the car?

[@COMotorsports]

Don't remember sorry.

[@carterscarlett6953]

Silly question, does the backfire from the exhaust just occur? Or is that due to the turboback exhaust?

[@COMotorsports]

That was Rev cut.

[@davebalfour5229]

306 whp so what does that equate to at the flywheel please ,great video.

[@COMotorsports]

340-350hp I'd say.

[@MBR0108]

On average, for a manual car, it's about a 10-15% increase too go to BHP /CHP. So, yes, about 330-340 BHP /CHP

[@veryfastcarssa9572]

No intercooler upgrade needed for stage 2 plus??

[@COMotorsports]

Not required on this software, but there would be a bit more power to be had with an IC at this stage.

[@lowbvll8969]

How much boost is it running?

[@COMotorsports]

Whatever the off the shelf APR stage 2 tune requests. There was no need to log it.

[@TechX1320]

My build is pretty robust... I'm stage 2+ United Motorsports with APR FMIC, APR/Corsa RSC Full exhaust with down pipe (actually the test version, they used my car as one to test fit in 2012), APR Flapper delete, VWR CAI, GFB DV+, upgraded recommended plugs and coil packs (red tops), APR HPFP... Might my HP look a bit different/higher? Or is it whatever the flashed tune tells it, parts don't REALLY matter at a certain point? My turbo seems to max out at 28.5psi Saving up for that TTE420 upgrade though lol Oh and you mentioned the traction control... what if you turn it off? I have a button to disable it in my car

[@COMotorsports]

On this platform you can control it with vagcom if you have the proper loaded file. We've done it on other cars. Also not sure what you're referring to about the traction control button. I mention nothing of that here.

[@J0kerSt0rm]

​@@COMotorsports He was referring to the fact you mentioned in the lower end, the ECU was controlling the power from spinning tires. But I think he was confused about the fact that if the ECU didn't do that, it would cause traction issues and would spin tires. It's too much torque for the lower RPM, hence the ECU dialing it back. At least that's to my understanding. However pushing the ESP button in the center console, it doesn't turn it off fully.

[@jedediahsmart569]

Dave! Don't do a TTE420! Do you have e85? Switch to the UM Proflex, I made 352 AWP on the Proflex kit. My car was almost identical to yours as far as hardware goes. I keep promoting myself here, but I want to get in touch with as many MK6R people as I can. Check out my IG and DM me with what you are trying to do. I have spent 3 years dialing my car in... instagram.com/dasr20_mk6r/?hl=en

[@COMotorsports]

@@jedediahsmart569 Yes of course an ethanol tune is going to produce more power, especially when the engine is knock limited.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

@@COMotorsports I love that button ! Even though it's the wife's pedestrian 2014 Jetta 1.8 gen 3 , I put it in because traction control sucks sometimes in the snow. I turn it off most of the time I drive it now because the throttle response is so much nicer and you can power on thru a curve. Interestingly , when you get it really out of shape it still kicks in. An ebrake slide in the snow confirmed it.

[@elliotthuber1813]

What year was the car

[@COMotorsports]

2013 I believe.

[@Llggd]

I had my first encounter with a golf R the other day. I was driving my 04 comp g gtp with moderate bolt ons (1.9 rockers, t stat, pcm, full exhaust, headers and intake) this car was behind me and the color looked unusual. We were at a stop light light and I was getting ready to merge on the highway. As the light turned green, he revved his engine behind me and I noticed the MK6 headlights along the R badge up front. He had no front bumper but a big intercooler. He probably saw my vacuum gauge cluster (previous owner installed but never finished) that was not working and assumed I was clapped out or just faking. I knew he had more power than me but I had one thing that he did not have which is instant torque. I merged on the freeway like I usually do, full throttle, as first gear is not slow but nothing to brag about. Second is the go gear in my car. From 60-90, the comp g will surprise most newer faster cars. He waited and then brake boosted and I saw him catching behind me but never enough to pull ahead. This was in traffic on a 55mph two lane highway. It was the perfect scenario for the GTP. He was chasing me but could never pass me. Every time he got full boost, he had to slow down because of traffic. I then got in the slow lane to pull off my next exit and I gave him the thumbs up while we were side by side. He pulled away angrily weaving in and out of traffic around 80-90mph. He was definitely faster and would gap me hard on an open road. However, it felt really good showing him all the positives being supercharged.

[@jaxxone4907]

so a k04 makes the same power as is20, but is20 can do on e85 and gain another 60who lol

[@COMotorsports]

So could this.

[@mazpr2025]

If maybe you could do more of this type of context...?! 🤔

[@COMotorsports]

What do you mean?

[@myrx2]

Use need to do a big build on a ea113 motor.

[@COMotorsports]

There's plenty on the channel.

[@ivanaguilar1947]

SHOULD RUN THE 100 OCT MAP WITH E40 MIX TO SEE WHAT IT DOES

[@COMotorsports]

If you're paying I'm sure the client would gladly do it.

[@derrickarmour]

can't run ethanol on these engines at least without upgraded injectors the stock injectors are quite limited which is why most people just run meth

[@kdoran709]

how amazing how much better they sound than the mk7

[@COMotorsports]

It does sound good, that's for sure.

[@luemas2766]

Where are you located? Would like to have you tune my car too!

[@COMotorsports]

East Coast Canada.

[@dillonslate6291]

CO Motorsports where at I’m non Michigan if you aren’t too far away

[@dillonslate6291]

CO Motorsports in

[@TheNelson456]

You can expect the same power on any FSI ??

[@COMotorsports]

Any FSI with a K04 on it. :) Remember the MK6 Golf R had the K04 from factory, most other FSI's do not.

[@TechX1320]

lol not to comment on everyone's comments CO, but only because I know a lot of people XD I have a friend with a 2012 GTi that just fitted a K04... while he has some traction issues, his tune is almost identical to my R and our power figures are almost the same

[@COMotorsports]

@@TechX1320 that's a TSI and a different engine altogether. The standard FSI found in the GTI isn't as strong and can bend a rod with the K04 when pushed hard. I've made 325whp and 385wtq on 91oct before on a K04 with UM software with high boost. The stock FSI found in the GTI would be wrecked with that torque level. The TSI can take that abuse a bit more.

[@19SpaghettiOs88]

not if you custom tune. you'll see more hp and trq #'s. ots maps from all companies are about the same +/- 5hp and trq. its like a cobb ap the files are meant to be safe as possible.

[@PhilConn]

@@COMotorsports the engine in the mk6 golf R is a fsi. It says tsi on the cover but it’s the same engine out of the 06-08 gti

[@gamehancer]

8:40 i think the rims look like the bmw 763m

[@lamborghinihockey]

Thought stage 2+ made like 330 wheel, guess it’s about 330 crank

[@COMotorsports]

The key point here is fuel. This was done on 91oct, not 93oct.

[@lamborghinihockey]

CO Motorsports well in Montreal we only have either 91oct or 94oct, curious if either would make a difference on my UM stage 2 mk6 GLI

[@COMotorsports]

@@lamborghinihockey We flash for UM as well. You 100% want to be running the 94oct to take full advantage of the power.

[@lamborghinihockey]

CO Motorsports fair enough, by any chance do you know if UM offers a launch control/2 step for then Gen 1 GLI (manual of course)

[@COMotorsports]

@@lamborghinihockey I do not believe so.

[@theblackmambaplague]

Should’ve gone with giac.

[@COMotorsports]

Nope. That product is non existent in our area. Which means it would make zero sense to do that.

[@theblackmambaplague]

@@COMotorsports really? It’s that hard to get a giac tune? Are you in the states or what? You have a laptop right? Internet?

[@COMotorsports]

@@theblackmambaplague were in Canada and it's just not a popular option here period. However we have lots of great options so there's no need to offer it.

[@theblackmambaplague]

@@COMotorsports ok, that’s why you have those weak numbers. Giac has the most aggressive tunes for vw, anything else is cookie cutter. Neeeeeeeeext!

[@COMotorsports]

@@theblackmambaplague incorrect. We have trash fuel, and those are SAE numbers not STD. The numbers are higher with STD correction factor like most people show. We just didn't show those in this one.

[@gilangmagrial2451]

I thought it was AWD, because it R

[@COMotorsports]

You are correct. It is AWD.

[@gilangmagrial2451]

@@COMotorsports but why it's FWD while dyno??

[@COMotorsports]

@@gilangmagrial2451 because we unplugged the Haldex and ran it in 2WD.

[@gilangmagrial2451]

@@COMotorsports aaa... I see

[@lemonmuffin4990]

8:33 Shook 😂

[@sirphoenixknight3567]

Machine gun golf

[@Fabian95_7.5R]

Wtf 306 hp lol