Cut and Engrave Any Metal: Electrochemical Machining and Jet-ECM

[@ludwigwinter6795]

This channel is criminally underrated. Great stuff!

[@MorlockEngineering]

Thank you, it is 11 months in the making. I had to sell my own blood to raise money for it at one point.

[@ludwigwinter6795]

@@MorlockEngineering Wow, that's dedication. Thank you for sharing your projects with us.

[@JL-jg4pz]

@@MorlockEngineering Do you have Venmo or PayPal? You're doing good work and should ask for funding.

[@blackdeathghostye6654]

What this man said!

[@DonQuichotteLiberia]

AppliedScience's long lost son? Great video!

[@MorlockEngineering]

I need a better camera, mic, and lighting lol

[@MrDereBear]

I'm so happy you're continuing work on this project! I just had this idea about a week ago and yours seem to be the only videos on KZbin that are making headway in developing this tech. I think there are huge possibilities here and I've begun to work on my own system. Thank you for the time you've put in on this project. The quality of your results speak for themselves!

[@FullModernAlchemist]

I can’t get over how well this all came out man. This is truly impressive!

[@GoughCustom]

Super cool video! Your presentation style and even your way of speaking remind me a lot of Ben @ Applied Science!

[@MorlockEngineering]

Thanks. I have been watching @AppliedScience for years.

[@ZURAD]

If you're interested in doing the microfluidic circuits, I would recommend cutting steel and using NaClO3 as your electrolyte. The finish is the best I've seen, bar none. There's also a few papers out there on how to configure your current density for better surface finishes. It's funny actually, I've been trying to replicate your results and I'm only just now seeing your recommendations for a the pump and voltage booster after using the exact some ones in my setup. Great minds think alike I suppose. I've been trying on and off to get away with using a 3DP nozzle as my jet fixture and it's just totally trash at maintaining a good quality free jet. Gonna have to switch back to needles again.

[@iunnolol2114]

I'm happy I stumbled upon your videos, my project for next year is to mod the remains of my old printer to an ECM machine, one that can achieve high resolution with reasonably deep cuts. There are extremely thin hypodermic needles I want to try (if you ever get a spinal tap you'll appreciate they exist, lol) but I can already imagine the challenges that come with them in regards to max current and flow. So much to try, error and learn, very exciting!

[@grantprice613]

Definitely interested to see if this can make a simple AR FCG. That would be a great first step in terms of detail and strength of materials.

[@250smacks]

I was thinking Glock 17 slides. Gain knowledge and experience, pass it on. Can't stop the signal 🤗

[@KaletheQuick]

@@250smacks that would be nice. Time consuming, but nice.

[@98f5]

This method can be used to create more precise tools using itself too. This is awesome.

[@98f5]

This is awesome im so glad youtube decided to recommend this to me.

[@OmniicoreAutomation]

This exactly what ive been looking for. great work, appreciate it

[@BrandonWhipp]

Wow, this is very detailed on a cnc setup of this type of machining.

[@michelelaghi9193]

Great video! I modified my printer to use a laser cutter but this is another dimension.

[@dannyman4444]

excellent update as always

[@oliof]

You can improve z resolution by switching to 2mm pitch leadscrews which gives you .01mm resolution on full steps, and even less when doing microstepping. If you don't believe in microstepping, gearing z might get you even higher resolution.

[@MorlockEngineering]

That is a good idea

[@NabilBennaniKerrout]

Oh my god! Are you the son of the guy from Applied Science? You talk like him! Even your videos end like his! New favorite channel! Kudos buddy for this amazing work, I'll be soon trying this too!

[@t.josephnkansah-mahaney7961]

Great stuff!!! One thing I would like addressed further is the role the NaCl in solution, which dissassociates into Na+ and Cl- when dissovled in water, playes in the ECM process. Thanks!

[@MorlockEngineering]

I think I talked about that. The individual ions dont do much in this process except allow for the solution to become conductive

[@hosseinashkboos5188]

Hi, I enjoyed your video very much. I can't wait to get my hands busy on making one of these. Thank you very much for sharing.

[@Jefftopgun]

Subbed, liked, and comments for the algos. Didn't have high expectations with such a low view/ sub count. Pleasantly surprised, especially with your python script. I'm going to try this on my lowrider cnc to cut out aluminum replacement end plates and start working on rigidity improvements.

[@zhongxena1155]

You deserve more subs brother great work your time is coming soon !!!!

[@iBlue0riginal]

You can also do the opposite, depositing metal instead of etching it away. It is called jet plating. Would make a nice 3D metal printer...

[@snugglylovemuffin]

Just subbed, excellent work

[@UmutUcler]

Wow it looks very interesting. Will you make a video on converting a printer to this?

[@MorlockEngineering]

I want to make an Ender 3 guild

[@ludwigwinter6795]

@@MorlockEngineering Please do ❤

[@MorlockEngineering]

I want to. I want to convert an Ender 3

[@MichaelKocher1]

This is the future

[@samthenerf]

Have you tried a lithographic/photo-lithographic method? I used a crude form (a pattern cut from tape) to make a spring steel reed valve with a complex shape that would have been very hard to make any other way.

[@tentrot4420]

Can this be moved by hand rather than be controlled by a 3d printed/cnc machone

[@drubradley8821]

Clever!!! How soon before you dig into EDM'ing on steel alloys... with out the standback-feedback and bouncefault correction movement?

[@Nacionarg]

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but the only reason to use a pump is to blow away the residue, isn't it? Otherwise just for a shallow engraving/etching a solid needle and a fully submerged piece + needle tip should be enough and simpler than adding a pump, and will perhaps allow for finer details

[@kalpakiyer]

This was incredible Can you give an idea about what you used for the power supply? How do you deal with shorting? Thanks a ton

[@DANT98]

I'm interested if one could create a tool of an inverse complex shape and use it to cut that shape out of a solid stock of metal. Does the ECM tool need be a continuous plane, or could it have high and low spots that need to be precisely transferred to the working piece? For instance, if I wanted to make a mold out of metal such as aluminum or steel, could I print the shape on the 3d printer, apply a conductive coating to the print, and use that complex printed surface as a tool to cut the shape into metal? I'm assuming the answer is no, since in the demonstration you seem to be using the ECM setup like a mill rather than a press.

[@3er24t4g1]

I was doing some reading and you can do complex 3D shapes. Look up ECM for jet turbine blades as an example

[@250smacks]

You can put a sprue onto your plastic part, dip it in plaster of Paris, burn it out and cast with metal. I haven't tried this but seen it on KZbin.

[@dsrisatyaomkar192]

Thank you so much 🙏🏽🙏🏽

[@Trivimania]

Nice info. Something I missed is info on how fast your needles get damaged? For example if you use a needle to drill a 3mm deep hole in alu, how many holes could you drill before the needle gets too much damaged ? Or don't they damage a lot ? I also wonder if you have to ket the electrolyte go through the needle itself. Can't you also just spray from the sides like in edm ? (anyway, the needles aren't hard to get) . And 3rd question. You talk about using a 12V power supply in the beginning, but how many amps are aproximately being used from that 12V PSU ?

[@robbiejames1540]

Because of the cunning way ECM works, there should be NO wear on the needle at all. So infinite holes!

[@SandeepKumar-jj7zi]

@@robbiejames1540 Because cathode does not get eroded?

[@aterxter3437]

a good video but, at 5:13 it's complete nonsense in explaining the need to supply current (having lessons of oxydo-reduction chemistry, I would eplain it like this) by applying current, you force down electrons in the cathode and pumps out the same amount from the cathode ; the overall system stays electrically neutral the reaction happens in two times : 1) a) at the anode the aluminium is oxyded ( anode => oxydation) Al(solid, noted s)=>Al3+(in the water, noted later aq) +3 e- b) at the cathode the water gets reduced, in dihydrogen (H2) producing HO- ions : 2*H2O(l, liquid) +2e- => 2HO-(aq) +2H+(aq) +2e- => 2HO-(aq) + H2(g,gazeous) to ensure a global electrical neutrality, the reaction at the anode happens two times whereas the one at the cathode happens three times(in the same amount of time) : giving us the final equation : 2*(Al(s))+3*(H2O(l)+2e-) => 3*(2HO-(aq)+H2(g)) + 2*(AL3+(aq) 3e-) 6 electrons are cosumed and produced, everything right : 2AL(s)+ 3 H2O(l) => 6 HO-(aq)+ 3 H2(g) + 2 Al3+ (aq) 2) the aluminium ion has an acidic behaviour and the HO- ion, is by essence a basis (oposite of an acid if you didn't knew it) the al3+ and HO- react in thefloolowing acido-basic reaction : Al3+(aq) + 3 HO-(aq) => AL(OH)3(s) (one aluminium linked with three oxygen, themselves linked with an hydrogen) The need for supplying current comes from the fact that the reduction of water into dihydrogen isn't a spontaneous reaction (totally the opposite, its the inverted reaction of H2+O2=> 2 H2O that is spontaneous, making hydrogen an extremely flamable gaz). You need to force the production of dihydrogen by pumping electrons in the cathode. About the reason for the size of the holes depending on the concentration of salt, I have my own (not proven in a lesson, my classes doesn't goes that far) : - the oxydo-reduction needing a current, that reaction is highly dependant on the resistance of the solution (thanks to Kholraush's law, the conductivity (invert of resistance) is proportional to the concentration of each type of ions) - a chemical reaction is always an equilibrium, if too much products are produced, the reaction will slow down and even come to a stop (you can even revert a reaction by increasing the amount of one of the products, it is a matter of the reaction's coefficient my idea is that with higher concentrations of salt, the resistance of the solution decreases, producing more aluminium and the reaction at the bottom of the hole slowes down whreareas the reaction on the sides get more proemeinent, making in the end a bigger hole

[@carlvanheezik263]

So this will work on copper. This can be used for PCB milling in this case. No more broken mills :-) would be great. You Eagle CAD for this. Can you show more of your setup.

[@MorlockEngineering]

There really isnt anything more to it. Just put a needble and a pump on any XYZ gantry and cut whatever you want.

[@crakkerjakked53548]

Yo, that drawing tablet is pretty dope. Enlighten me with a brand/place to purchase?

[@schlajan3904]

Can this also work on Steel or are you already working on it?

[@MorlockEngineering]

Yeah, steel works. Nearly any metal works. It makes almost no difference

[@schlajan3904]

@@MorlockEngineering great because i have some private projects in mind which i could try to make with it.

[@schlajan3904]

@@Dirtysouth210210 no

[@vinodtatti]

Great job and info. Is it possible to make pcbs with your technique?

[@herpderp9854]

i was wondering, can you switch the polarities in an ECM process and turn it into an additive process?

[@nickisghosty]

have you looked into using potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide instead of sodium chloride. potassium hydroxide is supposedly the best electrolyte because the anode/cathode stay clean when producing hydrogen for a HHO generator. but maybe this quality is not what you're looking for when drilling/milling. something to try possibly.

[@romankucera6363]

Sodium and potassium hydroxides are reacting with aluminium and they will dissolve it.

[@corwinalleno6032]

[@TheSuburban15]

Sodium Cloride (NaCl) - commonly called "salt"

[@mikevegeto1101]

How do you deal with the safety concerns of generating hydrogen in your shop? Do you just vent it to the outside?

[@Grognarthebarb]

Here from keybase

[@MorlockEngineering]

Appreciated

[@nkofr]

Can it work with steel?

[@tylerm124]

Have you tried using a different electrolyte?

[@vdiallonort]

Hello,I love your project and interest to reproduce it. Is it possible to somehow calculate how deep will be the cut.Therefore it will be possible to mill to a certain precise deepth ?

[@whamodyne2]

For Jet ECM, you need 80 to 300V? What is the current at that voltage? I thought the current was the thing that mattered.

[@MorlockEngineering]

Current does matter, but for jet-ECM because of the large inter-electrode gap you need a high voltage. As a result of needing higher voltage, but not wanted to boil the water, the current must be limited to a degree. So the cutting is slower.

[@mohamedkhalifa9337]

😮how much does it cost you sir

[@ivanlukes5747]

It possible cutting stainles steel?

[@gedr7664]

Amazing work !!! any updates on this???

[@MorlockEngineering]

I have been working on desktop metal printing, but I plan on doing an Ender 3 conversion once I figure out how to modify the firmware slightly for very small z-moves

[@Max-tj7bp]

@@MorlockEngineering I might be able to help you out with this. Currently also looking for a way to manufacure some microfluidic chips :)

[@MorlockEngineering]

@@Max-tj7bp I have been making some using PDMS and 3D printed molds from my Mars Pro.

[@Max-tj7bp]

@@MorlockEngineering wow, how did I not think of that.. I tried epoxy castings but they were not inert enough for the chemistry I wanted to use them for.. but I also have a Resin printer so casting pdms should do the trick. However, I still need an excuse to build a jet ecm, for which I know how to get ridiculusy slow and minuyr movements :)

[@sket123flamez7]

so can this be conected to a normal cnc mill and use the same as a cnc mill or lazer engraver

[@MorlockEngineering]

CNC laser engraver would be an easy step. The CAD file is on the github, so you could do that easily with some modification. Use inkscape to generate the gcode

[@sket123flamez7]

@@MorlockEngineering yeah thanks man good work i saw about this a few years ago didnt think it was this easy

[@user-sv5hg6tg4l]

What device is that thing you're writing on ?

[@MorlockEngineering]

reMarkable tablet. I really like it

[@swolebro]

FYI, there's a cheap CC/CV power supply that you can control via USB+Python that you might find particularly useful. It was your original video on etching that got me thinking about its applications, particularly with regard to monitoring the output in order to monitor kerf width/MRR and detect shorts when you move too fast. I've only gotten as far as poking a piece of aluminum with an electrode and seeing "yup, it removes stuff," but I did do an example bit on controlling the supply, which might be of use to you. demo: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKC3h2pmZZiaorc code: github.com/swolebro/swolebro-youtube/blob/master/arduino/dps5020.ipynb also, important assembly tips: kzbin.info/www/bejne/apysfKOkltaKgtk I hope to revisit this sometime, but got too much other nonsense going on at the moment.

[@MorlockEngineering]

I defiantly want to revisit ECM as well. I am waiting for an Ender 3 to become available so I can make a video on converting it to an ECM machine with a swappable tool head.

[@swolebro]

@@MorlockEngineering Whoops - I'm partly responsible for four of those Enders being out of stock. Hahahah. Every time someone asks me which printer to get, that's the answer. They really are great. I'm not so sure about using a bed-slinging printer for ECM though. I guess with a small needle jet of water, it's not that much to drain from the bed, but with a pump flooding the work, you'd have to make sure you drain it off fast enough that you don't have a reservoir of water sloshing around making you miss steps.

[@shonkydonkey]

Hah, I was just going to ask if a CC supply with feedback would be advantageous here. What kind of current does this process need? If under 30mA produced acceptable results it would improve safety when dealing with the higher voltages. Feedback for short detection and even "touching off" the top of the material should be feasible.

[@swolebro]

@@shonkydonkey If you want to remove any significant amount of material, you're looking at 5-15 amps. More if you can. It's the amps that remove material, not the volts. For detail work or etching, milliamps will do.

[@shonkydonkey]

​@@swolebro Hmm... EE thinking out loud here... the current by itself isn't that big of a problem, but I know Morlock Eng. was talking about 300V+ which does indeed start to get expensive. Rectifying AC mains is a fairly cheap way to get ~100V 10A, but 15A and boost to 300V isn't easy. That kind of power would need a welder or dryer outlet or something since 15A at 300V would need at least 45A at regular US mains voltage. Wonder how much use 100V and 10A would be. It should be feasible to make a linear constant current supply to step that down, but it would need some pretty big (expensive) FETs. It might need a decent amount of bulk capacitance to keep that kind of current going though. Wonder what effect a switch mode power supply would have on this. It would probably be a cheaper way to do this. Then there's the safety related questions when dealing with 100V+ and enough current to kill you pretty good...

[@romankucera6363]

The explanation of the electrochemical processes is wrong. For example the reaction in second line is completely wrong, you don't need any electons for it - let's check the charge balance - the overall charge on the left and right side of the arrow must be the same. Here, you can see that on the left side it's -2, while on the right side it's zero - two negative and two positive changes cancel each other. Also you don't end up with 3 unused electrons - you use them for the oxidation of second atom of aluminium. The overall reaction is: 2Al + 6H2O -->2Al(OH)3 + 3H2. You use the voltage to transfer 6e- from 2 atoms of aluminium to 6 H+ ions to create 3 molecules of H2 and 2 Al3+ ions.

[@webspiderc]

Does it work with PCB broad ?

[@MorlockEngineering]

Yes

[@nosuchthingasshould4175]

This works with any other metal, right?

[@MorlockEngineering]

for the most part, so long as it does not react with water, like sodium or potassium

[@zero_to_1000]

Doesn't seem practical